Guild Wars 2

Pop back in 6 or so months to see if it has changed (doubt it)

You forgot that they also stated there would be varying methods of obtaining ascended gear released within the same time frame. Still one single method for armor, weapons, and, accessories; even trinkets and rings, which have more than one, are only at two.

Conncept.7638:

You forgot that they also stated there would be varying methods of obtaining ascended gear released within the same time frame. Still one single method for armor, weapons, and, accessories; even trinkets and rings, which have more than one, are at a whopping two.

This is a good point. I also forgot to add that the scavenget hunt never materialized which your post just reminded me of.

Lunaire.5827:

ArenaNet would nerf any rewarding aspect of the game, likely so that you would feel more inclined to convert gems to gold.

Basically, the reason that I’ve lost a ton of enthusiasm for this game since April, if not before.

• Terrible, terrible writing and dialogue that is too lighthearted to ever take seriously. I have heard that this has changed for the better in Season 2, but I could care less about Living Story.

I don’t think Living Story Season 2 is good. However, it is much easier to take seriously than the first season, which was laughably shallow.

Ascended gear and the incompetence with which it was implemented. Over 1 year ago there was a dev post that stated the remaining missing stat combinations for ascended trinkets would be released in the following update (E.G. Carrion and a few others). This never happened. Something that should literally take 5 minutes of development time to add has taken over 1 year to implement and has received no further acknowledgement.

I always thought ascended gear was a bad idea. IMHO, the game never needed it in the first place.

Getting nerfed every patch. My main character that I play is a Thief, and while although I will concede the class was too strong in some areas, it did not justify receiving a nerf literally almost every single patch since the game’s release. It was nerfed to be the only class without a 1200 range attack early on, and countless nerfs later, including nerfs to skills that were clearly never good to begin with, makes the class feel like a husk of it’s former self. [https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Complete-List-of-Thief-Nerfs] here is a quick, now outdated example for your reference. [/url] You’d better believe Last Refuge still exists though.

I’ve been saying for a long time that thieves are not overpowered, per se. STEALTH is overpowered. And no, making Shortbow 4 count as a strike does not solve this problem. The problem wasn’t that you could use Shortbow 4 and remain stealthed. The problem was that you should never be able to immediately re-stealth when stealth runs out, regardless of whether you hit anyone or not. There needs to be a Revealed status for anyone coming out of stealth (not just thieves) so they can’t immediately re-stealth. Re-stealth is broken, and it will always be broken, particularly for thieves who can stealth easier than any other profession. If you want to stealth for longer you should have to trait for stealth to last longer, not just equip a bunch of skills and combos that allow you to stealth and stealth and stealth and stealth one more time with no drawbacks.

TL;DR: Anet doesn’t want you to have rewarding content.

Yeah, that’s basically what I’ve been feeling for the last year.

I do feel ya. People who probably left because of solid arguments like yours, made me feel that some of them were right. As you are in this case. For example, some ppl predicted what would become of this game 1 year ago, and today they are totaly right. That’s why from a regular paying customer, I’ve become a casual player. I still hold my breath for “the miracle” to happen, cause this game “has it” It’s like quoting Frankie Wilde “Ibiza is dot dot dot”. Even after this disastrous feature pack I still hold some breath. In the mean time, I got other new games to play.

Etien.4601:

I do feel ya. People who probably left because of solid arguments like yours, made me feel that some of them were right. As you are in this case. For example, some ppl predicted what would become of this game 1 year ago, and today they are totaly right. That’s why from a regular paying customer, I’ve become a casual player. I still hold my breath for “the miracle” to happen, cause this game “has it” It’s like quoting Frankie Wilde “Ibiza is dot dot dot”. Even after this disastrous feature pack I still hold some breath. In the mean time, I got other new games to play.

Thank you for your comments. I agree that at its core this is still a good game and i’m sure many people still find it enjoyable. It is just very upsetting to me to see what I consider such wasted potential so far in its life.

Conncept.7638:

You forgot that they also stated there would be varying methods of obtaining ascended gear released within the same time frame. Still one single method for armor, weapons, and, accessories; even trinkets and rings, which have more than one, are only at two.

Colin Johanson

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

Haven’t been actively playing for 6 months or more and come back to find things are getting worse. I’ve put it down to we’re not the target audience.

Azure Prower.8701:

Haven’t been actively playing for 6 months or more and come back to find things are getting worse. I’ve put it down to we’re not the target audience.

Pretty much this. Anet has a target audience and it’s not going to be everyone. Obviously there are people who do like the changes being made, at least many of them and they’re happily going about their business collecting new stuff, making new backpacks, playing with the new crafting interface, and yes, still leveling alts.

There are definitely people who are disenfranchised with the current direction of the game, and rightly so for their play style.

But I don’t think anyone has a clear majority where they think they can force the issue to change the game. Anet knows who is playing what, and that’s logically going to get the most attention.

I’m pretty sure anet’s internal politics are a mess. I bet a lot of people working there would love to work on dungeons or other fun content, but their upper management won’t give them the go ahead. I don’t know how you fix that. Pool our money and buy out the company, maybe?

aliksyian.7642:

I’m pretty sure anet’s internal politics are a mess. I bet a lot of people working there would love to work on dungeons or other fun content, but their upper management won’t give them the go ahead. I don’t know how you fix that. Pool our money and buy out the company, maybe?

LMAO! Yes, I’m sure that would work.

But what do you do if you get into the company and find most people don’t run dungeons? I’m not saying they do or they don’t…but what would you do if that were the case?

My guess is that if more people ran dungeons, more work would be done on them, because it’s just logical.

Good post that sums up some of my thoughts as well. I left around 6 months ago but still keep reading forums & dulfy in case there’s going to be some overhauls in this game.

What bugged me most was lack of what people would call meaty updates to the core elements of this game and I’m talking about dungeons/PvP maps/Guilds/adding alliances. That type of stuff. Those things add longevity like no other, especially compared to living story which I can predict people won’t replay after getting all achievements so much than PvP/dungeons.

Anet chose different path and it’s their right to choose. Impact of negativity shows that number of decisions they have made in this game really hit hard against especially fans of original Guild Wars and all-around veterans of the game. With veterans I don’t mean elitists like some have said on other threads but I mean players that have been playing 2 years and are still waiting for core elements to be added to this game.

It’s sad that the only conclusion you can offer is that some players should give up on the game because they are not the developer’s target audience. In fact, it would have been absurd to suggest that not so long ago.

GW2 had the virtue of bringing together all kinds of players, not simply one group. Everyone found content that was fun for them! Where did that content come from? It wasn’t metrics, it was a design decision from someone who had a vision, and it was great.

But for the people who enjoyed that content, it now doesn’t feel like the work that needed to be done is being done. Every area of GW2 was released as a work in progress, which is alright if there’s progress, but the fact is that after 2 years there is no appreciable advancement towards core goals for many of the game modes.

There have been additions to content and QoL improvements, stuff that is worth checking out now and then, much of it genuinely good, much of it in response to the needs of the game as it is being played. But PvPers don’t have any new game modes, WvWers don’t have additional maps or depth, GvGers are hardly even recognized as a group, there’s still nothing dynamic about dungeons and nothing in the pipeline, no new regions for lore enthusiasts… it goes on.

I get that these things take time, but players are paying attention to what the company is doing, and for many parts of the game it doesn’t seem like a whole lot has been going on. We have a churn of casual one-size-fits-all content alongside this China release, and now the developers are actually removing content that had been enjoyed since the start. They’ve moved their focus from creation and innovation to making the game conform to opaque metrics.

Imagine if the original release had been marketed as a product of advanced metrics into player’s habits and preferences, rather than the realization of the ideas and ambitions of creators! Thankfully it wasn’t, yet that’s the kind of kitten you’re shoveling now. This game still has potential, which is why we hang on, but it’s no longer clear that there’s anyone with the will to realize it.

How is it sad. The game as a target, it can’t appeal to everyone, that’s life. It’s sad that baseball is slower than football and appeals to different people?

GW2 at release was magical base-foot-basket-cricket-tennis-golf-snowball. You may not remember or understand that, but it had the potential to be all those things, and it still does. That was the vision, and it would indeed be quite sad if it does not live up to that, because it would make a lot of people happy if it does.

I came to this thread to fight you off and tell you to shut up…. But im with you

Bertrand.3057:

GW2 at release was magical base-foot-basket-cricket-tennis-golf-snowball. You may not remember or understand that, but it had the potential to be all those things, and it still does. That was the vision, and it would indeed be quite sad if it does not live up to that, because it would make a lot of people happy if it does.

It never really had that potential, because there aren’t enough devs in the world to give it that potential. It doesn’t exist. For one thing making changes to the game for one demographic kittenes off another. So for some people it will never be all things.

There are people who say without open world PvP this game isn’t worth it. It’s not their demographic. That’s it. If they put it it, it wouldn’t be my demographic.

MMO players are very much divided about what they want in an MMO.

If the developers listened to people like you when they were starting out then the game we have would never have existed in the first place. This game broke barriers, including for people like myself and the friends I joined with who never played a MMO before.

Just to address the example you gave, I have friends in this game who are veterans of open world PvP who play this game for WvW.

You may be right that they can’t satisfy everyone, but by diversifying the content they found a way to satisfy a lot of people.

God. How does Anet do it? This is definitely the whiniest MMO forum I’ve EVER come across. I’ve been playing MMOs since UO and my GOD you people are the worst I could have ever imagined. Some guy up there said he quit six months ago but still reads the forums. Wow. I stopped playing WOW in 2006 and haven’t been back since. That’s what you do when you stop playing a game. Obviously, you’re still playing GW2. Likewise for the OP.

You’re not giving up on the game. You’re just whining like a baby and are probably logged into GW2 right now. People that don’t like it don’t play. Period. People that don’t like the new changes and actually gave up aren’t playing the game and aren’t on the forums. Stop pretending you’re not playing. You ARE playing and will CONTINUE to play because at the end of the day, you like the game. You just don’t like that someone from Anet hasn’t called your cellie and told you how awesome you are.

I’m tired of all the whining. I’m tired of all the moaning. Man up, guys and gals. If you don’t like where GW2 is going, LEAVE. Just like I did with EQ II, SW and Conan. LEAVE.

Lunaire, I’ve thought about throwing in the towel too but I’m gonna stick around. Why? Because I want to see what else Anet screws up. It’s painfully entertaining seeing them screw up their own game like EA is famous for.

i’ve long suspected this game had poor player retention and was feeding off of tyria’s revolving door.. they continually gut their dedicated players to bait new ones and pad the bottom line of a select few who have gained the favor of their all encompassing rng.. it’s easier to glamour the facade of an enriched gaming environment than to actually do it

it sounds spiteful, but it’s really just lamentation.. i put 5k hours in this game and really wanted to enjoy it, a lot of work went into it i’m sure, but i am tired of jumping through hoops while trying to find any semblance of disgrievance.. i hope the next harvest of customers finds a good thing with where this game is headed

rlhaas.5723:

God. How does Anet do it? This is definitely the whiniest MMO forum I’ve EVER come across. I’ve been playing MMOs since UO and my GOD you people are the worst I could have ever imagined. Some guy up there said he quit six months ago but still reads the forums. Wow. I stopped playing WOW in 2006 and haven’t been back since. That’s what you do when you stop playing a game. Obviously, you’re still playing GW2. Likewise for the OP.

You’re not giving up on the game. You’re just whining like a baby and are probably logged into GW2 right now. People that don’t like it don’t play. Period. People that don’t like the new changes and actually gave up aren’t playing the game and aren’t on the forums. Stop pretending you’re not playing. You ARE playing and will CONTINUE to play because at the end of the day, you like the game. You just don’t like that someone from Anet hasn’t called your cellie and told you how awesome you are.

I’m tired of all the whining. I’m tired of all the moaning. Man up, guys and gals. If you don’t like where GW2 is going, LEAVE. Just like I did with EQ II, SW and Conan. LEAVE.

Obvious irony aside, if you don’t like what a thread has to say then just leave…that’s all just leave.

Grinding achievements you have no hold on (Mad Court Victory during Halloween) to progress the story. This was my final nail in the coffin back in October 2013, I dumped this game never to return again. Looks like I was right on my money, GW2 has been doing downhill ever since.

Vayne.8563:

Bertrand.3057:

GW2 at release was magical base-foot-basket-cricket-tennis-golf-snowball. You may not remember or understand that, but it had the potential to be all those things, and it still does. That was the vision, and it would indeed be quite sad if it does not live up to that, because it would make a lot of people happy if it does.

It never really had that potential, because there aren’t enough devs in the world to give it that potential. It doesn’t exist. For one thing making changes to the game for one demographic kittenes off another. So for some people it will never be all things.

There are people who say without open world PvP this game isn’t worth it. It’s not their demographic. That’s it. If they put it it, it wouldn’t be my demographic.

MMO players are very much divided about what they want in an MMO.

ANet stated multiple things. They defined what were their targets. They end up focusing on less and less targets. That’s the problem. If they couldn’t keep up then it was their duty to not advertise for that as much as they did. Since they didn’t it’s our right and duty to be disappointed and to tell them so. It might not have occured to them but their passion is nonexistant without the players. One day people will see GW3, and they’ll think whether “great, I loved gw2 and ANet was such a great compagny and stuff”, whether “another Molyneux in the video games industry”.

Actually most people would totally pay for an add-on if that meant some true change. If that means that their targetted audience would be satisfied, then what’s 40€/$ or bit more ? The playerbase like their philosophy as long as they can hold to it, once they start disappointing it’s just a vicious circle, they’ll get less and less and do less and less. GW2 / ANet was the game/compagny that kept our expectations really high, and it could have been that : the reason it wasn’t the case is that ANet screwed like COMPLETELY season 1 of LS and waster a whole year, they made a super-grindy game when they said “no grinding”, they didn’t care about sPvP or WvW much, they based the endgame mostly on alts while screwing low levels with traits coming up at sloth speed, & such. They avoided making too many promises yet they made so many empty ones. They made mistakes and players told them countless times that they were screwing up. Now it’s their problem, whether they fix it (which they won’t do since they’re gonna focus on a story basically written by a two years old this year apparently) whether it’ll just get worse and worse. I love the game, yet I feel like something is wrong so much I’m writing a hate post on the forum of the game I love. Like so many others I just want it to live up to the expectations, yet…

The dev team just say NEIN! (Yeah, I really mean it.)
NEIN! NEIN! NEIN! NEIN! NEIN! ………….

They are too stubborn to listen to good feedbacks.

AnAspieKitten.5732:

Vayne.8563:

Bertrand.3057:

GW2 at release was magical base-foot-basket-cricket-tennis-golf-snowball. You may not remember or understand that, but it had the potential to be all those things, and it still does. That was the vision, and it would indeed be quite sad if it does not live up to that, because it would make a lot of people happy if it does.

It never really had that potential, because there aren’t enough devs in the world to give it that potential. It doesn’t exist. For one thing making changes to the game for one demographic kittenes off another. So for some people it will never be all things.

There are people who say without open world PvP this game isn’t worth it. It’s not their demographic. That’s it. If they put it it, it wouldn’t be my demographic.

MMO players are very much divided about what they want in an MMO.

ANet stated multiple things. They defined what were their targets. They end up focusing on less and less targets. That’s the problem. If they couldn’t keep up then it was their duty to not advertise for that as much as they did. Since they didn’t it’s our right and duty to be disappointed and to tell them so. It might not have occured to them but their passion is nonexistant without the players. One day people will see GW3, and they’ll think whether “great, I loved gw2 and ANet was such a great compagny and stuff”, whether “another Molyneux in the video games industry”.

Actually most people would totally pay for an add-on if that meant some true change. If that means that their targetted audience would be satisfied, then what’s 40€/$ or bit more ? The playerbase like their philosophy as long as they can hold to it, once they start disappointing it’s just a vicious circle, they’ll get less and less and do less and less. GW2 / ANet was the game/compagny that kept our expectations really high, and it could have been that : the reason it wasn’t the case is that ANet screwed like COMPLETELY season 1 of LS and waster a whole year, they made a super-grindy game when they said “no grinding”, they didn’t care about sPvP or WvW much, they based the endgame mostly on alts while screwing low levels with traits coming up at sloth speed, & such. They avoided making too many promises yet they made so many empty ones. They made mistakes and players told them countless times that they were screwing up. Now it’s their problem, whether they fix it (which they won’t do since they’re gonna focus on a story basically written by a two years old this year apparently) whether it’ll just get worse and worse. I love the game, yet I feel like something is wrong so much I’m writing a hate post on the forum of the game I love. Like so many others I just want it to live up to the expectations, yet…

Anet didn’t really say much they didn’t deliver on though. They made thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of statements leading up to launch. They didn’t deliver on a handful of them. It’s a pretty good track record.

People have very high expectations, because people haven’t worked in the industry. Very few MMOs can deliver everything they want. Hell, even the manifesto, which people continually bring up is just that…a manifesto…a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.

Vayne.8563:

aliksyian.7642:

I’m pretty sure anet’s internal politics are a mess. I bet a lot of people working there would love to work on dungeons or other fun content, but their upper management won’t give them the go ahead. I don’t know how you fix that. Pool our money and buy out the company, maybe?

LMAO! Yes, I’m sure that would work.

But what do you do if you get into the company and find most people don’t run dungeons?

I’d make the dungeons so that they can be run optimally by 8 players but if someone wants to go in alone, or two people want to go in together, or three, or four, they’d have a selection of modifiable heroes/henchies to fill out the party if they wanted to use them. And while I was at it, I’d lose about 9/10s of the god kitten red circles. And I’d make the rewards commensurate with the time and effort required.

Might even consider megadungeons for larger parties. Maybe even customizable dungeons.

Now, the big question: has the thread been sufficiently derailed yet? Have the OP’s points and comments been obfuscated with sufficient smoke and mirrors?

Vayne.8563:

How is it sad. The game as a target, it can’t appeal to everyone, that’s life. It’s sad that baseball is slower than football and appeals to different people?

Well, it would be sad if they changed the rules of baseball that said you couldn’t hit a double, triple, or home run until you were in the 7th inning. That if you hit it on the ground in the infield you were automatically out – no trying to run to 1st. And you had to reach the 4th inning before you could steal any bases. Then, yeah, baseball would be sad.

misterman.1530:

Vayne.8563:

How is it sad. The game as a target, it can’t appeal to everyone, that’s life. It’s sad that baseball is slower than football and appeals to different people?

Well, it would be sad if they changed the rules of baseball that said you couldn’t hit a double, triple, or home run until you were in the 7th inning. That if you hit it on the ground in the infield you were automatically out – no trying to run to 1st. And you had to reach the 4th inning before you could steal any bases. Then, yeah, baseball would be sad.

Except that MMOs change rules all the time. Anyone playing an MMO that doesn’t expect change will be disappointed. Some changes you’ll like, some you won’t. Just like there are some changes I like and some I don’t. But you know, if you don’t like a game, or what a game is becoming, there are other games.

There aren’t enough games like Guild Wars 2 for me, so I’m pretty much limited.

Let’s say your a dungeon guy who like raids…well there’s Wildstar right? They’re supposed to have good dungeons and raids.

But that doesn’t mean it’s has to be the focus of every game.

There was a pretty good description of the sate of this game currently on Reddit :
Get Gold, Get Gems, Get Pretty, Repeat.

I don’t think the game is all that bad, even with all the changes, it’s simply lacking new supranational content, an expansion, new skills, new weapons, new dungeons, new multiple zones to explore, jumping puzzles, etc. Living Story and the pace of it is simply not enough.
You wouldn’t see people arguing about NPE if it was introduced with a new Content Pack.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

aliksyian.7642:

I’m pretty sure anet’s internal politics are a mess. I bet a lot of people working there would love to work on dungeons or other fun content, but their upper management won’t give them the go ahead. I don’t know how you fix that. Pool our money and buy out the company, maybe?

LMAO! Yes, I’m sure that would work.

But what do you do if you get into the company and find most people don’t run dungeons?

I’d make the dungeons so that they can be run optimally by 8 players but if someone wants to go in alone, or two people want to go in together, or three, or four, they’d have a selection of modifiable heroes/henchies to fill out the party if they wanted to use them. And while I was at it, I’d lose about 9/10s of the god kitten red circles. And I’d make the rewards commensurate with the time and effort required.

Might even consider megadungeons for larger parties. Maybe even customizable dungeons.

Now, the big question: has the thread been sufficiently derailed yet? Have the OP’s points and comments been obfuscated with sufficient smoke and mirrors?

Smoke and mirrors, huh? How about perspective. You like to phrase things in humorous, clever rhetoric that often obscures the fact that what you’re saying isn’t necessarily fact, but you do it anyway. We all communicate in our own way.

As for the topic, I don’t think I’ve been off topic at all. I’m discussing complaints people have with the game and the reasons why some of them might not want to stay with the game, which after all is the topic.

Vayne.8563:

misterman.1530:

Vayne.8563:

How is it sad. The game as a target, it can’t appeal to everyone, that’s life. It’s sad that baseball is slower than football and appeals to different people?

Well, it would be sad if they changed the rules of baseball that said you couldn’t hit a double, triple, or home run until you were in the 7th inning. That if you hit it on the ground in the infield you were automatically out – no trying to run to 1st. And you had to reach the 4th inning before you could steal any bases. Then, yeah, baseball would be sad.

Except that MMOs change rules all the time. Anyone playing an MMO that doesn’t expect change will be disappointed. Some changes you’ll like, some you won’t. Just like there are some changes I like and some I don’t. But you know, if you don’t like a game, or what a game is becoming, there are other games.

There aren’t enough games like Guild Wars 2 for me, so I’m pretty much limited.

Let’s say your a dungeon guy who like raids…well there’s Wildstar right? They’re supposed to have good dungeons and raids.

But that doesn’t mean it’s has to be the focus of every game.

I agree with you there. I much preferred open world battles/events to dungeons. Rift had (or used to – not sure anymore) some major world events that were quite cool. And you are correct in the after this one, there isn’t much choice. I know, I’ve been looking. Maybe Archeage, though I am not holding my breath. What I don’t like is the locking – weapon swap, skill point acquisition, weapon skills (how about unlocking one EVERY level?). Those seem needlessly heavy-handed and the reasoning without any sort of logical merit.

It almost seems like Anet got an influx of government bureaucrats whose sole purpose in their otherwise tedious lives was to make things less fun for everyone – and these are the people directing the design.

You made a lot of good points but then ths one stood out-

“The recent interview in which ArenaNet said they have no plans to update Super Adventure Box in lieu of it not fitting into the Living Story, paired with the terrible decision to withold the already-existing SAB content from the player base. This was quite literally my favorite part of the game.”

Then GW2 is not the game for you regardless of your other concerns.

Nick.6972:

There was a pretty good description of the sate of this game currently on Reddit :
Get Gold, Get Gems, Get Pretty, Repeat.
.

I always felt a lot of these MMOs ended up as virtual Barbie. Men, mostly, playing dress up to “Get Pretty”.

Nick.6972:

There was a pretty good description of the sate of this game currently on Reddit :
Get Gold, Get Gems, Get Pretty, Repeat.

I don’t think the game is all that bad, even with all the changes, it’s simply lacking new supranational content, an expansion, new skills, new weapons, new dungeons, new multiple zones to explore, jumping puzzles, etc. Living Story and the pace of it is simply not enough.
You wouldn’t see people arguing about NPE if it was introduced with a new Content Pack.

It’s a matter of priorities. Anet needs more people in game to deal with attrition and that has to be their first priority, because no matter what a company does, there will be attrition. They found they weren’t getting people to buy the game from free weekends, they said the turnover from trial to sale is not good enough period. That’s what they’re going to focus on. The more people push them to fix it and the longer they take to fix it, the longer it takes to get to the next step.

I don’t think people realize how much having to deal with the reactions slows down progress sometimes.

Vayne.8563:

humorous, clever rhetoric

Why, thank you, good sir.

Re the subject at hand: I, personally, don’t want to give up, but at this point I cannot help but feel it is what is expected – perhaps even desired – of me, by the perpetrators of the game.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Obvious irony aside, if you don’t like what a game has to offer then just leave…that’s all just leave.

Fix’d

It’s always nice when the same argument can be used on both sides.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

humorous, clever rhetoric

Why, thank you, good sir.

Re the subject at hand: I, personally, don’t want to give up, but at this point I cannot help but feel it is what is expected – perhaps even desired – of me, by the perpetrators of the game.

See the smoke and mirrors of your wording. Perpetrated, like a crime. That’s evocative, but it’s also misleading. You use language so well. You should be a writer.

But it doesn’t change the fact that just because you don’t like the way a game is going doesn’t change the fact that others are happy.

I think people hang onto this game so long, because of the potential they see. If the game didn’t have that potential, there wouldn’t be so many people hanging around the forums.

By the same token, to some of us, many of us even, it’s still a fun game and we’re enjoying it. And every person who hangs around hoping it will change isn’t really helping themselves or us.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

humorous, clever rhetoric

Why, thank you, good sir.

Re the subject at hand: I, personally, don’t want to give up, but at this point I cannot help but feel it is what is expected – perhaps even desired – of me, by the perpetrators of the game.

See the smoke and mirrors of your wording. Perpetrated, like a crime. That’s evocative, but it’s also misleading.

Au contraire, mon frère. It would seem I spoke with great clarity, for you instantly grasped my meaning! I do indeed feel that what anet is doing to this game is a crime. Not like murder or insider trading, of course. Merely a misdemeanor, in the grand judicial scheme of things. A crime, nonetheless.

Carry on!

Agree with all your points, i’m playing from first day till now, but…

“Getting nerfed every patch.”

Same for me and my friends, i not even updated the game till now. One reason, Anet prefer to destroy instead of create new things, no creativity, the devs who do this works are awful in it, the only thing in all the game that always make me go away is “BALANCE” paths, let me say on thing, there’s NO BALANCE in this BAD game, can you hear me devs?! Just destruction of every class till you have no fun anymore. Create new skills and new builds and not KITTEN skills and maybe your game will not be so bad anymore. I’m back to my old game for now.

Good bye and good luck to who stay here.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

humorous, clever rhetoric

Why, thank you, good sir.

Re the subject at hand: I, personally, don’t want to give up, but at this point I cannot help but feel it is what is expected – perhaps even desired – of me, by the perpetrators of the game.

See the smoke and mirrors of your wording. Perpetrated, like a crime. That’s evocative, but it’s also misleading.

Au contraire, mon frère. It would seem I spoke with great clarity, for you instantly grasped my meaning! I do indeed feel that what anet is doing to this game is a crime. Not like murder or insider trading, of course. Merely a misdemeanor, in the grand judicial scheme of things. A crime, nonetheless.

Carry on!

But it’s not a crime, even if you want to compare it to one. It’s perfectly legal. Anyway, I only responded, because you accuse me of using smoke and mirrors.

I’m using reasoned response to stand against what was pretty much a riot. Many have calmed down since then and we still haven’t seen all fixes/adjustments yet.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

humorous, clever rhetoric

Why, thank you, good sir.

Re the subject at hand: I, personally, don’t want to give up, but at this point I cannot help but feel it is what is expected – perhaps even desired – of me, by the perpetrators of the game.

See the smoke and mirrors of your wording. Perpetrated, like a crime. That’s evocative, but it’s also misleading.

Au contraire, mon frère. It would seem I spoke with great clarity, for you instantly grasped my meaning! I do indeed feel that what anet is doing to this game is a crime. Not like murder or insider trading, of course. Merely a misdemeanor, in the grand judicial scheme of things. A crime, nonetheless.

Carry on!

But it’s not a crime, even if you want to compare it to one. It’s perfectly legal. Anyway, I only responded, because you accuse me of using smoke and mirrors.

I’m using reasoned response to stand against what was pretty much a riot. Many have calmed down since then and we still haven’t seen all fixes/adjustments yet.

One final word: metaphor.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

humorous, clever rhetoric

Why, thank you, good sir.

Re the subject at hand: I, personally, don’t want to give up, but at this point I cannot help but feel it is what is expected – perhaps even desired – of me, by the perpetrators of the game.

See the smoke and mirrors of your wording. Perpetrated, like a crime. That’s evocative, but it’s also misleading.

Au contraire, mon frère. It would seem I spoke with great clarity, for you instantly grasped my meaning! I do indeed feel that what anet is doing to this game is a crime. Not like murder or insider trading, of course. Merely a misdemeanor, in the grand judicial scheme of things. A crime, nonetheless.

Carry on!

But it’s not a crime, even if you want to compare it to one. It’s perfectly legal. Anyway, I only responded, because you accuse me of using smoke and mirrors.

I’m using reasoned response to stand against what was pretty much a riot. Many have calmed down since then and we still haven’t seen all fixes/adjustments yet.

One final word: metaphor.

One final word: hyperbole

Using the language to make something sound far worse than it actually is. Many on this forums do it.

FRACTAL RESET; NEVER FORGET.

Erukk.1408:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Obvious irony aside, if you don’t like what a game has to offer then just leave…that’s all just leave.

Fix’d

It’s always nice when the same argument can be used on both sides.

Did you even read the person’s rant I was responding to before “fixing” my quote?

Vayne.8563:

How is it sad. The game as a target, it can’t appeal to everyone, that’s life. It’s sad that baseball is slower than football and appeals to different people?

Vayne.8563:

misterman.1530:

Well, it would be sad if they changed the rules of baseball that said you couldn’t hit a double, triple, or home run until you were in the 7th inning. That if you hit it on the ground in the infield you were automatically out – no trying to run to 1st. And you had to reach the 4th inning before you could steal any bases. Then, yeah, baseball would be sad.

Except that MMOs change rules all the time. Anyone playing an MMO that doesn’t expect change will be disappointed. Some changes you’ll like, some you won’t. Just like there are some changes I like and some I don’t. But you know, if you don’t like a game, or what a game is becoming, there are other games.

I’d like to point out that Vayne pulled out an analogy then declared his own analogy to be inapplicable the moment it became inconvenient.

Bertrand.3057:

Vayne.8563:

misterman.1530:

Vayne.8563:

How is it sad. The game as a target, it can’t appeal to everyone, that’s life. It’s sad that baseball is slower than football and appeals to different people?

Well, it would be sad if they changed the rules of baseball that said you couldn’t hit a double, triple, or home run until you were in the 7th inning. That if you hit it on the ground in the infield you were automatically out – no trying to run to 1st. And you had to reach the 4th inning before you could steal any bases. Then, yeah, baseball would be sad.

Except that MMOs change rules all the time. Anyone playing an MMO that doesn’t expect change will be disappointed. Some changes you’ll like, some you won’t. Just like there are some changes I like and some I don’t. But you know, if you don’t like a game, or what a game is becoming, there are other games.

I’d like to point out that Vayne pulled out an analogy then declared his own analogy to be inapplicable the moment it became inconvenient.

Point it out. People stretched the analogy beyond the bounds where it was true, which is pretty much what happens when you try to stretch any analogy. Let’s try facts instead of analogies.

1. MMOs change. All of them.
2. It is unlikely that every change will be universally loved by all players.
3. Anything made four years ago talking about an MMO is likely going to be outdated on some level. MMOs change a massive amount in four years.

I think that covers it nicely.

Sounds like you gotta taste of the unlucky account blues. It’s spreading around. I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of their economist. They could definitely use one that isn’t so focused on RL economies and that’s actually had experience with gaming because I doubt very much that he plays any games personally.

Your gem store conversion was spot on as one of the central problems this game faces.

While I don’t agree with you on their new direction away from the dungeoneers/raiders I do completely agree with your assessment of DR. Why is it still in the game is beyond me.

Also, as an Engineer in PVE I feel your pain when it comes to nerfs. Kit Refinement as a secondary heal and condition removal tool, the shortening of the AOE range of bombs well below that of a daggers, 2handed swords doing well above standard damage (which means that we would have never developed things like flame throwers, bombs, grenades, mines in real life humans would have fought WWI with two handed swords because apparently that is so much more powerful than a rifle, or chemical warfare for example.) Mines that enemies can dance around on and not get hit by, grenades that have been nerfed multiple times in PVE. the list is long on the PVE engineer side that has never been fixed. They seriously need someone from the military to explain to them how these weapons should work so they can finally fix them.

Then there are the uneven condition damage types. Apparently Poison isn’t deadly it’s simply a bee sting and will subside without any major damage at all.

While I feel your pain over the rewards system ( or lack thereof ) not ALL of the rewards are in the store. Right now you can craft backpacks and earn some rewards from collections, a huge step in the right direction. Here’s to hoping they stay on that path.

But I do also agree with you on the gems conversion thing. It’s fine as a side note something to do when you don’t have something to buy in the store to help your character along, however, their economist has turned this into one of those mandatory things especially for new players where you are required if you have an unlucky account which most will find they do, to convert gems just for the sake of getting the ever inflating gear that’s not sold by karma vendors, complete with sigils/runes that are only available with DR inhibited drops so you can’t craft them yourselves without gold even. It’s the single worst economy I’ve ever experienced in my entire 24 MMOs.