Guild Wars 2

Bertrand.3057:

Vayne.8563:

misterman.1530:

Vayne.8563:

How is it sad. The game as a target, it can’t appeal to everyone, that’s life. It’s sad that baseball is slower than football and appeals to different people?

Well, it would be sad if they changed the rules of baseball that said you couldn’t hit a double, triple, or home run until you were in the 7th inning. That if you hit it on the ground in the infield you were automatically out – no trying to run to 1st. And you had to reach the 4th inning before you could steal any bases. Then, yeah, baseball would be sad.

Except that MMOs change rules all the time. Anyone playing an MMO that doesn’t expect change will be disappointed. Some changes you’ll like, some you won’t. Just like there are some changes I like and some I don’t. But you know, if you don’t like a game, or what a game is becoming, there are other games.

I’d like to point out that Vayne pulled out an analogy then declared his own analogy to be inapplicable the moment it became inconvenient.

Well, in his defense, it takes a large fire to handle so many irons.

Lunaire.5827:

Conncept.7638:

You forgot that they also stated there would be varying methods of obtaining ascended gear released within the same time frame. Still one single method for armor, weapons, and, accessories; even trinkets and rings, which have more than one, are at a whopping two.

This is a good point. I also forgot to add that the scavenget hunt never materialized which your post just reminded me of.

We got the scavenger hunt. It’s called collections. We just got it without the precursors.

Sokia.3710:

I’ve been saying for a long time that thieves are not overpowered, per se. STEALTH is overpowered. […]Re-stealth is broken, and it will always be broken, particularly for thieves who can stealth easier than any other profession. If you want to stealth for longer you should have to trait for stealth to last longer, not just equip a bunch of skills and combos that allow you to stealth and stealth and stealth and stealth one more time with no drawbacks.

I also main a thief and I know where thieves are except when they use shadow refuge and then run away. So maybe the problem isn’t stealth but that people don’t think when a thief stealthes.

Is “leveling alts” code for keyfarming?

Maliel.8362:

Is “leveling alts” code for keyfarming?

For most of the complainers – yes.

I just want to adress the “all mmo change” phrase.
Yes, but in a way im improvements, getting new content PERMAMENTLY, fixing bugs and giving more awesome stuff.
Huge revamp for instance in WoW with new traits was good step, because it changed things without sacrificing anything really. You still get all stuff, just you choose active skills most of the time.
In GW2 thye changed things with flaws (traits, leveling) but in a way that is WORSE than before. Its like making cow give more milk but cutting two of four legs. Yeah, cow now give more milk but cant walk. That is the process we observe here. Its like “How to screw the MMO development for dummies”

Im with OP.

MikaHR.1978:

Maliel.8362:

Is “leveling alts” code for keyfarming?

For most of the complainers – yes.

Would love to see your evidence for this statement.

tl:dr

I gave up on this alpha game a few months ago.

Life feels good without daily grinding and doing the same things over and over again day for day.

Vayne.8563:

LMAO! Yes, I’m sure that would work.

But what do you do if you get into the company and find most people don’t run dungeons? I’m not saying they do or they don’t…but what would you do if that were the case?

My guess is that if more people ran dungeons, more work would be done on them, because it’s just logical.

People ran dungeons when they came out 2years ago, Maybe if there was some new dungeons that people hadn’t exausted. then maybe people would do more dungeons. I mean what do you expect when you only have one years worth of new contant that no one can actually experience anymore…

@Lunaire.5827

They do not want your feedback. They want to reduce “unnecessary” development costs that would arise from living story having to be developed in 2 separate versions. Now they cannot introduce western version in china. But they can introduce chinese version in the west. And they do. Step by step until difference between both is the text they display.

Now why chinese version is different? Chinese version is different because they are not meant as a form of entertiment (at least not mainly). They are ment as a mean to main people compliant to the fault. They are ment to make people used to mindless low level work performed in countless hours and “gods” grinding their way up to the top. What they are not ment to be, is they are not ment to be Played. Playing is a form of development, wheras those games are supposed to do exact oposite – hendicap persons development and even regress it if possible.

Why? So they can get compliant, aspiration-less, easy to make happy sociaty, that have strict hierarchical structures burned in their brains to the level of the law of nature and that will work suicidal amount of working hours without complain.

This is EVIL. This is DISGUISING and INHUMAN.
And ArenaNet is getting payed to export that “kindness” …

Lunaire.5827:

• Never wanting to level an alt again. This was one of the last nails in the coffin. With the trait revamp where you must unlock them or buy them, and now with the NPE, I couldn’t see myself having any fun at all leveling an alt. I already felt like the trait system was bland and generic, but now this seals the deal.

I really question the logic of creating alts ATM. Character Slot on sale in the Gem Store now, but what is the point?

MikaHR.1978:

Maliel.8362:

Is “leveling alts” code for keyfarming?

For most of the complainers – yes.

I don’t think so, because I don’t do this “keyfarming” and I am upset. I don’t like unlocking weapon skills via leveling because it makes you wait a while to use everything, even IF people say levels 1-15 are faster to obtain now. I don’t like the idea of F-skills being level-locked, because I really don’t understand the logic behind it at all. Sure, Eles had their F-skills locked before the patch, but now I hear it’s worse. Some classes need their slot skills to be more effective in survival, more so than other classes, and level-gating these skill slots to higher levels doesn’t seem to do said classes any favors. When ANet bumped Skills and Talents up the first time, I already felt that any alt I made was just trudging through, trying to survive, for a long time, without the assistance of those skills and talents. Now we must wait even further. I do not see how this helps anyone, really.

When people make claims that everyone upset by this feature pack are just key-farmers, then that makes my opinion feel undervalued, as I do not key farm. Hell, I can’t count how many BL Chests I have that have never been opened, as I don’t go “farming” for keys…

I find the game to be well worth playing still. OP has some good points, some not so good (not that they’re necessarily wrong, but I don’t think they’re worth leaving the game over)

Then again, if you’ve done just about everything there is to do, then yeah, there’s no reason to keep playing until there’s more to do. There’s also no reason to make a big deal of it. So, play another game, have fun, whatever. There are still a lot of people enjoying this one.

@MikaHR.1978:

>> Maliel.8362:
>> Is “leveling alts” code for keyfarming?
> For most of the complainers – yes.

That is BS. I did make multiple alts – yes, for fun and if not GW2 fanatics, I woudn’t even realize that 10 level key thing – that k-i-t-t-i-n insignificant that kitten is. I seriously doubt everyone aside of few bozos ever care about it – and this could be easily solved by simply taking away that ____ key.

Also I bought a bunch of game cards and trilogy just to support their game. I have never found actual use for for the stuff they were selling, and treating as it had actual value. GAME/ENTERTAINMENT is only value in what they are selling – AND THEY GET RID OF IT TO GET MORE MONEY!!!

Corrections, I actually had suspicions concerning its use: I assumed “premium” stuff was there (and occasionally given away for free) to fill up our banks so we buy bank tab extensions …

MikaHR.1978:

Maliel.8362:

Is “leveling alts” code for keyfarming?

For most of the complainers – yes.

No, I’ve never “key-farmed” before. I just like having multiple characters and being able to play at low levels and still enjoy the game. Now it feels like I have to rush to level 40. And giving me a level 40 scroll for all my characters wouldn’t really fix my problem. I like the early maps, I enjoyed the process of leveling and the story progression pre-patch.

Well nevermind – I am only writing here to make it more difficult for employees to overpost customers with as-kissing posts. Actuall fans and fanboys will have their brains smoothed out soon enough…

@Penarddun.6827

But this is convinient isn’kitten
How they are using what supposed this game was all about, and claiming you were doing this to “cheat” ArenaNet out of profit. Which is case in some games but here every single person that is complaining has paid their share to support this game and often much more than required.

Do not get decived, people that invented and push this argument is arenanet themselves, because they are the only one who is posting here and WHO DID NOT PAID FOR THIS GAME, hence have proper mindset to consider that idea sensible. YOUR CUSTOMERS ALREADY PAYED YOU – and you sold them PAY ONCE experience.

Want more money? Make a standelone expansion as you did before. Players too spread out? Connect maps.
Living story is extremaly stupid idea, as it do not add to the value of the game, since as soon as it is gone – it is gone for good.

Of course main problem is that this would require actual work, smart design (smart people cost more) and why do that since you can just take the game hostage and monetize on it as long as player base will accept the abuse.

MikaHR.1978:

Maliel.8362:

Is “leveling alts” code for keyfarming?

For most of the complainers – yes.

Pretty much every alt (22 other characters plus my 2 mains) were used to get keys while I leveled them to level 20-80. Wasn’t technically key farming, as the slots didn’t get recycled, unless I couldn’t afford another slot for a cosplay character.
- I have 5 characters under level 20, but my only true hate for this patch is due to what I experienced and what was also mentioned. My own personal discrepancies are:

-The skills and utilities being level locked.
-Down state is a joke, and you can’t at-all deny that if you are not a pudding brain.

A lot of my alts are Engies, thieves, or Wars. I find thieves and Engies suffer the most, as Thieves are squishy as it is.
Engies rely on those other skills on their pistol. I always got a better damage result from skill 2 and 4, and skill 5 was just an awesome skill to have from very early on, as it meant the difference between survival and death. The fun factor was the ability to keep on your toes to avoid damage, but now I have to wait until higher levels to use skill 5 which drags on a little too long for me. How has GW2 not become like any other generic MMO?

Now, realistically, if you are brand new to the game, none of this will overly affect you as you’d be clueless to how the game is (unless you did your research, which most do).
So, those who did their research and expected something else entirely to what is currently patched in, will be disappointed and probably try to get their refund or sell their account.

A lot of new players are attracted to a game by word of mouth, after a year or two of the game being launched.
Now with so many other new choices for games, the only thing that would bring players in, is advertisement, which is mostly done by veterans. And to kitten off many veterans can cause a backlash involving negative advertisement.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

humorous, clever rhetoric

Why, thank you, good sir.

Re the subject at hand: I, personally, don’t want to give up, but at this point I cannot help but feel it is what is expected – perhaps even desired – of me, by the perpetrators of the game.

See the smoke and mirrors of your wording. Perpetrated, like a crime. That’s evocative, but it’s also misleading.

Au contraire, mon frère. It would seem I spoke with great clarity, for you instantly grasped my meaning! I do indeed feel that what anet is doing to this game is a crime. Not like murder or insider trading, of course. Merely a misdemeanor, in the grand judicial scheme of things. A crime, nonetheless.

Carry on!

But it’s not a crime, even if you want to compare it to one. It’s perfectly legal. Anyway, I only responded, because you accuse me of using smoke and mirrors.

I’m using reasoned response to stand against what was pretty much a riot. Many have calmed down since then and we still haven’t seen all fixes/adjustments yet.

One final word: metaphor.

One final word: hyperbole

Using the language to make something sound far worse than it actually is. Many on this forums do it.

That could of course work both ways… just saying

Flouncers always think everyone else should care about their very difficu,lt decisions™.

Each time I see a thread like this, I have the desire to leave the game, but I can’t bare to walk away from all my time invested in the game

Vayne.8563:

Bertrand.3057:

Vayne.8563:

misterman.1530:

Vayne.8563:

How is it sad. The game as a target, it can’t appeal to everyone, that’s life. It’s sad that baseball is slower than football and appeals to different people?

Well, it would be sad if they changed the rules of baseball that said you couldn’t hit a double, triple, or home run until you were in the 7th inning. That if you hit it on the ground in the infield you were automatically out – no trying to run to 1st. And you had to reach the 4th inning before you could steal any bases. Then, yeah, baseball would be sad.

Except that MMOs change rules all the time. Anyone playing an MMO that doesn’t expect change will be disappointed. Some changes you’ll like, some you won’t. Just like there are some changes I like and some I don’t. But you know, if you don’t like a game, or what a game is becoming, there are other games.

I’d like to point out that Vayne pulled out an analogy then declared his own analogy to be inapplicable the moment it became inconvenient.

Point it out. People stretched the analogy beyond the bounds where it was true, which is pretty much what happens when you try to stretch any analogy. Let’s try facts instead of analogies.

1. MMOs change. All of them.
2. It is unlikely that every change will be universally loved by all players.
3. Anything made four years ago talking about an MMO is likely going to be outdated on some level. MMOs change a massive amount in four years.

I think that covers it nicely.

Funny that you saw that as the stretch, because professional sports change their rules too, including baseball. Sometimes people feel the rule changes are justified, sometimes they don’t. So this guy gives you a set of rule changes that he thinks would be comparable, to make the point that such changes would be absurd. If you found that particular analogy a stretch, that I can understand – I found your original analogy to be a stretch. I just feel a little let down because after bringing in this analogy you decided not to play ball after all.

Sadly we don’t buy games anymore…. we buy keys to open betas where the devs will change the game to fill their pockets…..

JarrodJames.6845:

Sadly we don’t buy games anymore…. we buy keys to open betas where the devs will change the game to fill their pockets…..

Most often what fills their pockets is things that will make the game more succesful… ie what players want.

The problem we have is that ‘what forum monsters who will never be happy and rely primarily on groupthink want’ and ‘players who are actually playing’ want are two entirely different things.

JarrodJames.6845:

Sadly we don’t buy games anymore…. we buy keys to open betas where the devs will change the game to fill their pockets…..

Which is one of the reasons I don’t like paying money for games that require online. It’s the reason I didn’t get Diablo 3. If Blizzard goes and makes Diablo 2 a horrible game with some new update, I can just uninstall it a reload a previous version that is actually fun.

Drlightningbolt.1754:

Vayne.8563:

LMAO! Yes, I’m sure that would work.

But what do you do if you get into the company and find most people don’t run dungeons? I’m not saying they do or they don’t…but what would you do if that were the case?

My guess is that if more people ran dungeons, more work would be done on them, because it’s just logical.

People ran dungeons when they came out 2years ago, Maybe if there was some new dungeons that people hadn’t exausted. then maybe people would do more dungeons. I mean what do you expect when you only have one years worth of new contant that no one can actually experience anymore…

What’s your evidence that people ran dungeons two years ago. In fact, I’d argue that less people ran dungeons two years ago than do now. I don’t think more people ran than two years ago.

When they were harder, even less of the population would be attempting them. Because people like fast and easy, at least a lot of people do.

Now I have zero evidence of this. But I suspect you have zero evidence that more people ran dungeons two years ago.

On the other hand, I’m pretty sure Anet knows how many people ran dungeons two years ago. In fact, the dungeons were harder on launch at least because we didn’t know them, and that very difficulty might be why people think less people like dungeons.

Maybe not enough people by percentage back then ran them because they felt they were too hard. And today not enough people run them because they feel they’re too easy or they’ve done them too much.

The thing is Anet knows how many people have done and do dungeons. You and I can only guess.

Vayne.8563:

aliksyian.7642:

I’m pretty sure anet’s internal politics are a mess. I bet a lot of people working there would love to work on dungeons or other fun content, but their upper management won’t give them the go ahead. I don’t know how you fix that. Pool our money and buy out the company, maybe?

LMAO! Yes, I’m sure that would work.

But what do you do if you get into the company and find most people don’t run dungeons? I’m not saying they do or they don’t…but what would you do if that were the case?

My guess is that if more people ran dungeons, more work would be done on them, because it’s just logical.

It’s highly logical that not enough players, play dungeons. We’re not all playing Berserker-wearing Warriors, and if we’re not, we’re not really welcome. It’s a toxic part of the community quite honestly. But.. why blame them. It’s the efficient way. Nobody wants conditions, because it’s not as effective. Nobody really wants someone built into support, because it’s not required one bit. Who wants a interrupt Mesmer in Guild Wars 2? Bosses can’t be interrupted (not really anyways), trash mobs are too easy. It’s all about Hundred Blades, bae! We’re #1. ’Murica! I mean.. ’Arrior!

And well, there’s the rewards. Or lack of rewards perhaps. The dungeons aren’t all that rewarding, to me at least. There’s a few skins to be gotten, but why not bump them up to Ascended stats to make it more appealing? The end-rewards aren’t that exciting either, a bit of coinage pretty much. There’s no unique semi-rare/rare item that can only be obtained from doing a dungeon, well no, in some dungeons there are such items, but not all. A item that starts you on a quest to get something cool, like say a precursor. A item that has a unique look only obtained from this dungeon as a drop. A item that.. <add your own idea of fun rewards here>. If it’s not rewarding, why do it? Again, if you’re not a Warrior, you’ll be hard pressed even getting to do it, so there’s that too.

Ok, we can make our own groups, “all are welcome”, and they will over some time fill up. But it takes time, to just get it going, and you’re often ridiculed for not playing the efficient profession, or the most efficient builds. There’s simply no interesting builds in dungeons, and they’re not challenging enough to warrant such builds, nor do they allow for it with how the game is designed (e.g., interrupts are pretty pointless on a boss creature, when it goes immune for another 50 interrupts afterwards.. it’s such horrible game design choice that one, especially in a closed off environment such as a dungeon. I’m exaggerating, but you get my idea I hope). Address rewards and how it’s all revolving around one profession, and perhaps you’ll see more players doing dungeons.

Absconditus.6804:

Vayne.8563:

aliksyian.7642:

I’m pretty sure anet’s internal politics are a mess. I bet a lot of people working there would love to work on dungeons or other fun content, but their upper management won’t give them the go ahead. I don’t know how you fix that. Pool our money and buy out the company, maybe?

LMAO! Yes, I’m sure that would work.

But what do you do if you get into the company and find most people don’t run dungeons? I’m not saying they do or they don’t…but what would you do if that were the case?

My guess is that if more people ran dungeons, more work would be done on them, because it’s just logical.

It’s highly logical that not enough players, play dungeons. We’re not all playing Berserker-wearing Warriors, and if we’re not, we’re not really welcome. It’s a toxic part of the community quite honestly. But.. why blame them. It’s the efficient way. Nobody wants conditions, because it’s not as effective. Nobody really wants someone built into support, because it’s not required one bit. Who wants a interrupt Mesmer in Guild Wars 2? Bosses can’t be interrupted (not really anyways), trash mobs are too easy. It’s all about Hundred Blades, bae! We’re #1. ’Murica! I mean.. ’Arrior!

And well, there’s the rewards. Or lack of rewards perhaps. The dungeons aren’t all that rewarding, to me at least. There’s a few skins to be gotten, but why not bump them up to Ascended stats to make it more appealing? The end-rewards aren’t that exciting either, a bit of coinage pretty much. There’s no unique semi-rare/rare item that can only be obtained from doing a dungeon. A item that starts you on a quest to get something cool, like say a precursor. A item that has a unique look only obtained from this dungeon as a drop. A item that.. <add your own idea of fun rewards here>. If it’s not rewarding, why do it? Again, if you’re not a Warrior, you’ll be hard pressed even getting to do it, so there’s that too.

Ok, we can make our own groups, “all are welcome”, and they will over some time fill up. But it takes time, to just get it going, and you’re often ridiculed for not playing the efficient profession, or the most efficient builds. There’s simply no interesting builds in dungeons, and they’re not challenging enough to warrant such builds, nor do they allow for it with how the game is designed (e.g., interrupts are pretty pointless on a boss creature, when it goes immune for another 50 interrupts afterwards.. it’s such horrible game design choice that one, especially in a closed off environment such as a dungeon. I’m exaggerating, but you get my idea I hope). Address rewards and how it’s all revolving around one profession, and perhaps you’ll see more players doing dungeons.

The general community by and large are still working on the premise that warriors are op in pve which hasn’t been the case since ever really. Two years after launch and because of balance shifting, every class is more than viable or useful in a dungeon run (the exception being necro’s unfortunately still don’t bring much in terms of team synergy) but the occasional dungeon runners just haven’t caught on to it yet. If someone only wants warriors for their group, they are bad and you are better off not joining them anyhow.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

If someone only wants warriors for their group, they are bad and you are better off not joining them anyhow.

Just like the first Guild Wars.

I don’t quite agree. No profession can really match the Warrior’s Hundred Blades in terms of cleaving damage. That’s simply not true. We’re talking insane damage bursts from one skill here. They also have pretty much the best mobility in the game (some argues thieves do, but I think they’re more on par if anything). They are simply put, the single most effective way of clearing out content in a dungeon setting. A controlled setting with very little challenge to it, which allows them to shine. It’s literally 2-3 second kills on practically every single boss within a dungeon these days. The dungeon-running community is basically based around this knowledge. They want their quick “rewards” out of a relatively boring and non-challenging setting, so they can actually get the rewards they want elsewhere with the coinage they earn.

I wouldn’t blame anyone for that. It’s not all that much fun, it’s not challenging, and the dungeons themselves are not really rewarding you with anything. I never found them interesting, because they don’t really provide me with anything I considered “neat” or “cool”. I didn’t like most of the sets, and after a while we got Ascended and their Exotics-stats were no longer interesting either. There’s very few unique and cool things that comes out of a dungeon as a drop. It’s basically, like so much else in this game, lacking on the rewards side.

Plus well, they need to figure out a way to make more interesting builds desired in this setting too. Like I said, why have a interrupter, when they can’t even interrupt a boss more than once before it dies, when the boss doesn’t even need you to interrupt it, because it melts in seconds to one professions skill? And no, I’m not saying “nerf” here.. I hope they don’t tread that path. I’m saying, find ways of making it interesting to bring a condition player, to bring someone with some support, to bring a interrupter. Perhaps even a tanky build. We’re on the doorstep of the trinity here, but everyone can do everything, is that so bad? Make it interesting, make it more engaging. Make it rewarding through drops and the ability to gain Ascended armor/weapons from dungeons as well (Hard Mode for that perhaps?).

Absconditus.6804:

I don’t quite agree. No profession can really match the Warrior’s Hundred Blades in terms of cleaving damage. That’s simply not true. We’re talking insane damage bursts from one skill here. They also have pretty much the best mobility in the game (some argues thieves do, but I think they’re more on par if anything). They are simply put, the single most effective way of clearing out content in a dungeon setting.

You haven’t countered our main point, though. Five good players of random classes will clear a dungeon faster than five mediocre warriors, unless those random classes are all condi builds. The same was true in the first Guild Wars. You could run a mission using meta with mediocre players, but a single good player could complete that mission faster using heroes and henchmen’s laughably bad AI (or after the 7-hero update, a full hero party)

Absconditus.6804:

I don’t quite agree. No profession can really match the Warrior’s Hundred Blades in terms of cleaving damage. That’s simply not true. We’re talking insane damage bursts from one skill here. They also have pretty much the best mobility in the game (some argues thieves do, but I think they’re more on par if anything). They are simply put, the single most effective way of clearing out content in a dungeon setting. A controlled setting with very little challenge to it, which allows them to shine. It’s literally 2-3 second kills on practically every single boss within a dungeon these days. The dungeon-running community is basically based around this knowledge. They want their quick “rewards” out of a relatively boring and non-challenging setting, so they can actually get the rewards they want elsewhere with the coinage they earn.

I wouldn’t blame anyone for that. It’s not all that much fun, it’s not challenging, and the dungeons themselves are not really rewarding you with anything. I never found them interesting, because they don’t really provide me with anything I considered “neat” or “cool”. I didn’t like most of the sets, and after a while we got Ascended and their Exotics-stats were no longer interesting either. There’s very few unique and cool things that comes out of a dungeon as a drop. It’s basically, like so much else in this game, lacking on the rewards side.

Plus well, they need to figure out a way to make more interesting builds desired in this setting too. Like I said, why have a interrupter, when they can’t even interrupt a boss more than once before it dies, when the boss doesn’t even need you to interrupt it, because it melts in seconds to one professions skill? And no, I’m not saying “nerf” here.. I hope they don’t tread that path. I’m saying, find ways of making it interesting to bring a condition player, to bring someone with some support, to bring a interrupter. Perhaps even a tanky build. We’re on the doorstep of the trinity here, but everyone can do everything, is that so bad? Make it interesting, make it more engaging. Make it rewarding through drops and the ability to gain Ascended armor/weapons from dungeons as well (Hard Mode for that perhaps?).

Before the patch, elementalist fiery great sword. After the patch, warrior greatsword was nerfed along with it.

I’ve done dungeons with and without warriors, it doesn’t always, or even usually go faster with warriors.

Just perception as usual.

The idea of berserker warriors running a dungeon fast together depends on 5 people doing everything right.

It’s a bad bad starting assumption that no one will make a mistake.

Vayne.8563:

The idea of berserker warriors running a dungeon fast together depends on 5 people doing everything right.

It’s a bad bad starting assumption that no one will make a mistake.

Exactly. The elitist attitude was always false. I discovered that in the first Guild Wars, and it’s just as true in this game. The “meta” is only true if all of your players are good players. The reality is that a lot of players aren’t that good. So, your berserker warrior actually isn’t the best choice if that warrior doesn’t know how to prevent himself from taking damage. A warrior which is kiting or retreating is not doing damage with Hundred Blades. A warrior which is downed or defeated is not doing damage with Hundred Blades.

Player skill makes a bigger difference than class. For example, engineers can do some sick damage but it’s generally harder to be an effective engineer than it is to be an effective warrior.

If your choice is a braindead party of warriors or a breaindead party of engineers, then you should choose the warriors. But if you are running with good players who know their profession, the profession difference isn’t nearly as pronounced.

So, basically, the meta is useless if your players are useless, and the meta doesn’t make as much of a difference if your players are really good.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

The idea of berserker warriors running a dungeon fast together depends on 5 people doing everything right.

It’s a bad bad starting assumption that no one will make a mistake.

Exactly. The elitist attitude was always false. I discovered that in the first Guild Wars, and it’s just as true in this game. The “meta” is only true if all of your players are good players. The reality is that a lot of players aren’t that good. So, your berserker warrior actually isn’t the best choice if that warrior doesn’t know how to prevent himself from taking damage. A warrior which is kiting or retreating is not doing damage with Hundred Blades. A warrior which is downed or defeated is not doing damage with Hundred Blades.

Player skill makes a bigger difference than class. For example, engineers can do some sick damage but it’s generally harder to be an effective engineer than it is to be an effective warrior.

If your choice is a braindead party of warriors or a breaindead party of engineers, then you should choose the warriors. But if you are running with good players who know their profession, the profession difference isn’t nearly as pronounced.

So, basically, the meta is useless if your players are useless, and the meta doesn’t make as much of a difference if your players are really good.

To further the point, all warriors is not the “meta” nor has it been for a very long time if ever. The reason for warrior popularity is because it is a relatively forgiving class compared to other options, so for pugs it was a no brainer to stack warriors.

False meta aside, the ugly dungeon environment pushed me to do PVP to get the skins I wanted. It’s a bizarre situation where group collaberative work is the most ugly possible social environment

I actually love that GW2 has an economist working for them.
I’ve played games where the inflation was so out of control that you’d have to spend weeks upon weeks grinding to get any decent gear while not being able to afford anything on a fresh account. Inflation in an online game is to be expected but hyper inflation really kills the enjoyment in playing so I think having a ‘healthy economy’ is the lesser of the two evils.

I would also prefer more skins in the game rather than in the gemstore, it isn’t a deal-breaker for me though since I am not in a rush to get all the skins in the game. I do wonder why they chose to add crafting backpacks rather than new armour though since I’m quite sure people would have been more pleased with new armour. I have so many backpacks already…

I agree that anet should work on more dungeons, perhaps not quite as large as the aetherblade path since that took up too many resources. Regardless of any new dungeons or how far down the road SAB will come back, I will probably continue playing.

As others have noted, there is a potential in Guild Wars 2 that I don’t see in other games and even though this feature pack was a bit of a flop imo, I have faith that arenanet will learn and improve. They’ve already proven that they can with how season 2 compares to season 1.

TLDR: Economist = good. Gemstore only skins = meh. More dungeons = yes please
Giving up = nowai !

Windsagio.1340:

False meta aside, the ugly dungeon environment pushed me to do PVP to get the skins I wanted. It’s a bizarre situation where group collaberative work is the most ugly possible social environment

That’s unfortunate, I guess I have been mostly lucky in that regards because I have main’ed engineer since headstart and not run into the problems some people seem to have. I mean, if a group is clearly labeled zerker speedrun and I don’t feel like running it that way I just don’t join and form my own group. I am not saying I haven’t seen people be nasty to each other (it especially happens on forum wars 2) but largely it’s just a case of two different playstyles that are both perfectly valid, just not compatible with one another in terms of results.

Windsagio.1340:

False meta aside, the ugly dungeon environment pushed me to do PVP to get the skins I wanted. It’s a bizarre situation where group collaberative work is the most ugly possible social environment

Its been like that in every MMO for quite a while now.

Unless youre in a guild (and what exalted ones call “casual guild” where scrubs run dungeons without “required class/build/gear”) you need very thick skin.

Its because reward driven system. Run doesnt matter, people dont matter (they are just tools you use to get shiney), all that matters is getting to shiney as fast as you can and if someone is “below optimum” its leet insult time. And then its time to look up the definition of anti-social (no, it doesnt mean “soloer that never groups”)

But if your choice is good Warriors or a good mixed bag of professions, then why not take the good Warriors with their increased cleave damage and excellent mobility? Are we on the same page there? I’m not a Warrior, I don’t want full Warrior groups, the community running dungeons does, and they aren’t exactly wrong for it.

Your reasoning doesn’t get more sound when you’re comparing mediocre x to good/great y. What are you on about? Your not going to have a much better time with a mediocre mixed bag of professions over a mediocre group of Warriors. Warriors also have increased movement speed, allowing them to get to their cleave spots faster, clearing their content quicker. Simple. I’d also say that Warrior is one of the easier professions to get a grasp on, no offense to Warrior players. It’s more common to find a decent Warrior. They just need one guy to tell them where to stand for line of sight, and to press (a little bit more than) one button at a given time to melt stuff. That’s hardly difficult. It also doesn’t change that conditions, interrupts and support builds are borderline completely undesired and/or needed. It revolves around damage, and pretty much just that. I find this to be boring.

Rewards are in either case the same, regardless of your group composition, they’re rather bland. And the community, regardless of our perception, is very much focused on Warriors. The toxicity even goes as far as requesting a “gear check” these days (well, for a long time now really). It’s ridiculous for something which is so little a challenge after having been dumbed down since launch.

To note: I have 8 Legendary weapons, my weapon stats would hardly be a issue, I have multiple Ascended sets for various scenarios and builds. I also use food buffs in all content I do, PvE or WvW. I don’t get bothered by gear check requests, you could even say I get to “show off” on request, but I find them to be stupid and pointless. I refuse to do them.

You’re also bringing up Guild Wars, which thrived on having multiple roles. I’d say we weren’t forced into a trinity there, not fully anyways, but you wanted those interrupts. You wanted that healing source. You wanted your Boons. You wanted conditions just as much as you wanted someone spanking and body blocking someone in melee. Here we’re stuck with wanting damage, and pretty much just that. Perhaps a tiny bit of Boon support, mainly for Might stacking. Dungeons there were and still are more challenging, in my opinion. You’re pointing to a game that did dungeons far better than the next iteration did it. At least the way I see it.

Absconditus.6804:

But if your choice is good Warriors or a good mixed bag of professions, then why not take the good Warriors with their increased cleave damage and excellent mobility? Are we on the same page there? I’m not a Warrior, I don’t want full Warrior groups, the community running dungeons does, and they aren’t exactly wrong for it.

Your reasoning doesn’t get more sound when you’re comparing mediocre x to good/great y. What are you on about? Your not going to have a much better time with a mediocre mixed bag of professions over a mediocre group of Warriors. Warriors also have increased movement speed, allowing them to get to their cleave spots faster, clearing their content quicker. Simple. I’d also say that Warrior is one of the easier professions to get a grasp on, no offense to Warrior players. It’s more common to find a decent Warrior. They just need one guy to tell them where to stand for line of sight, and to press (a little bit more than) one button at a given time to melt stuff. That’s hardly difficult. It also doesn’t change that conditions, interrupts and support builds are borderline completely undesired and/or needed. It revolves around damage, and pretty much just that. I find this to be boring.

Rewards are in either case the same, regardless of your group composition, they’re rather bland. And the community, regardless of our perception, is very much focused on Warriors. The toxicity even goes as far as requesting a “gear check” these days (well, for a long time now really). It’s ridiculous for something which is so little a challenge after having been dumbed down since launch.

To note: I have 8 Legendary weapons, my weapon stats would hardly be a issue, I have multiple Ascended sets for various scenarios and builds. I also use food buffs in all content I do, PvE or WvW. I don’t get bothered by gear check requests, you could even say I get to “show off” on request, but I find them to be stupid and pointless. I refuse to do them.

You’re also bringing up Guild Wars, which thrived on having multiple roles. I’d say we weren’t forced into a trinity there, not fully anyways, but you wanted those interrupts. You wanted that healing source. You wanted your Boons. You wanted conditions just as much as you wanted someone spanking and body blocking someone in melee. Here we’re stuck with wanting damage, and pretty much just that. Perhaps a tiny bit of Boon support, mainly for Might stacking. Dungeons there were and still are more challenging, in my opinion. You’re pointing to a game that did dungeons far better than the next iteration did it. At least the way I see it.

You are still operating under the assumption that warrior is the best, it’s not. It’s wanted because it’s easy to play. You can get better results with other classes but it does take more “effort”. Most classes have the ability to increase their movement speed, as an example an engineer is able to get permanent swiftness as well as stack group stealth for skipping trash if that is what is wanted. It’s just your premise is entirely wrong about how only warrior is capable of doing the things you are suggesting. You can’t fault a company for the community’s ignorance…

Swiftness only helps if you want to run away and that’s where GS warriors have “more mobility” than thieves if traited right.

Jana.6831:

Swiftness only helps if you want to run away and that’s where GS warriors have “more mobility” than thieves if traited right.

Mobility skills were always better than Swiftness for running away. Swiftness is best out-of-battle for running around. The reason warriors have insane mobility is because they have two mobility skills on one weapon.

Here’s the direction anet is going for: more gem store items. All the living world series are tied with new release of gem store items, and sadly wvw, dungeon, or pvp cannot be tied directly with gem store items because they all require certain amount of investment of skill, devotion and time, unlike gem store items. Living world is more of an hour or two commercial featuring new gem store items such as weapons, clothes and loosely themed “convenient” items.
Guild Wars 2 has turned into those Saturday Morning cartoon cereal commercials full of advertisement and few seconds of story to get more people to purchase gem store items while blocking any vertical or horizontal updates of the main game.

I guess what you meant is quickness which means that people move and attack faster, only few classes can do that and only mesmer’s time warp can give that “boon” to allies.
Yeah insane mobility but they’re not the only ones, but they are the only ones who can outrun my thief. But I wonder where you want to run to in a dungeon.

Sokia.3710:

Jana.6831:

Swiftness only helps if you want to run away and that’s where GS warriors have “more mobility” than thieves if traited right.

Mobility skills were always better than Swiftness for running away. Swiftness is best out-of-battle for running around. The reason warriors have insane mobility is because they have two mobility skills on one weapon.

Right, and engineer ( I hate to keep using this class, but it’s the one I know the best) can also have pretty incredible movement ability between rocket boots, reverse jumping acid bomb and jump shot with rifle plus the swiftness. Rangers, is a similar story between their gs, signet and reverse jump with sword. The point is all the classes bring something to a dungeon, just far too many players are unable to see that. I know full well that the community at large is biased towards certain classes, it doesn’t mean they are correct though.

In a dungeon, at least in our dungeons, you want to run from A to B the fastest you can, to deal incredible damage to one or more targets as quickly as possible. The ability to rush through things allows you to skip enemies. Why stealth when you can just have Stability and charge straight through enemy groups to the next boss? For speed, very few professions can do that, only one shines at it. If we’re talking equally skilled players.

It doesn’t matter that I dislike it, it doesn’t matter if someone don’t agree with it. It’s the community. The same way it asks for gear checks. We can’t change their views on it, because they aren’t technically speaking, wrong in their assumptions. I know my Mesmer is not as strong as a Warrior. I know my Time Warp is not all that helpful, as it ruins skill rotations by offsetting recharge periods. Portals aren’t needed, so what do I have to bring to the table? Interrupts? Yeah, I have plenty of those but one interrupt before the boss enemy goes on a immunity rampage, that pretty much lasts the rest of the 3 second long fight? I’m also slow, really slow. I can’t keep up. Never mind if I have Swiftness on, it does’t matter, I do not have the skills to propel myself forwards as fast as a Warrior can, nor a Thief. Those are the two kings of mobility. Sure, I can forwards-Phase Retreat with Staff, I have Blink.. that still is nothing compared to the mobility they got at their hands.

That’s where Warrior outshines the rest, and I’m not blind to seeing that. They are a Heavy using profession, with incredible damage, insane mobility allowing them to get from A to B quicker, with high health and good utility skills. They are the all-in-one toolkit for your dungeon needs, and this is why the dungeon runners have adopted them as their go-to profession. This leaves the rest of us feeling left out, out in the cold. If you’re not one of them, you’re not wanted. And sure, you can make your own groups, but those takes much longer to fill. This makes you not want to do dungeons, besides a lack of rewards, and as such, the metrics of dungeon-goers are not necessarily accurately representing those who would like to do dungeons. That’s what I was on about initially, before this turned into a discussion about other professions being just as good. Especially when taking a mediocre Warrior into consideration, next to a good/great other player of a different profession. A very valid comparison.

On the topic of dungeons I’ve never had a problem getting groups when playing any class. Not every group clears it in record time, but even a meh group is, what, 10-30 minutes slower than a pug “speed run”? I don’t see that as a big deal.

Absconditus.6804:

In a dungeon, at least in our dungeons, you want to run from A to B the fastest you can

Has only happened in two dungeons I have been in, TA whatever path and CF3 both time the party needed to be stealthed and both times I was the only person making it through without help as the others didn’t understand shadow refuge. They will make it through the mine fields with enough swiftness eventually though, just easier with stealth.

Absconditus.6804:

For speed, very few professions can do that, only one shines at it. If we’re talking equally skilled players.

Warriors are marginally faster than me and only if they’re traited right. I would get them with S/D probably but that’s the weaponcombo I still need to learn.

Absconditus.6804:

That’s where Warrior outshines the rest

I’m trying to tell you that they don’t. They have some nice attacks and are sturdy. Cool. So like someone else said: If you want to make a pug group go for warriors as a bad player can’t do that much wrong with a warrior.

And that’s it.
Btw: I hate knockback and you won’t harm me with your time warp.

MikaHR.1978:

Windsagio.1340:

False meta aside, the ugly dungeon environment pushed me to do PVP to get the skins I wanted. It’s a bizarre situation where group collaberative work is the most ugly possible social environment

Its been like that in every MMO for quite a while now.

Unless youre in a guild (and what exalted ones call “casual guild” where scrubs run dungeons without “required class/build/gear”) you need very thick skin.

Its because reward driven system. Run doesnt matter, people dont matter (they are just tools you use to get shiney), all that matters is getting to shiney as fast as you can and if someone is “below optimum” its leet insult time. And then its time to look up the definition of anti-social (no, it doesnt mean “soloer that never groups”)

The specific problem is that you can’t do Arah or COE (for instance) without either trying to start your own group or joining a ‘zerker only’ group. I can play that way, but “Zerker only” players tend to be kittenwads (in my experience).

Korossive.7085:

FRACTAL RESET; NEVER FORGET.