Simply put can Anet pls lift or remove the 500gold (a week!) limit on sending gold to other players. Its annoying for delegating stuff in guild and guildies trading items outside of using TP. I’m sure its there for some stupid reason like dealing with gold sellers or cheaters or something but is just a nuisance for legit players.
Its annoying for delegating stuff in guild and guildies trading items outside of using TP. I’m sure its there for some stupid reason like dealing with gold sellers or cheaters or something but is just a nuisance for legit players.
Anet do not support trade outside TP so do not think they will change limit because you want trade outside TP. Also yes limit is to hurt gold seller and fraud.
“This limit, which is based on historical data, should not affect the normal transfer of gold between players.”
which it does so needs changing. Also putting such a blanket limit as a reactionary solution to Gold Sellers and Fraud is just stupid and lazy , they should be proactive.
As I understand it, they looked at the metrics and figured out what is “normal” for transferring. In that linked thread there are dev posts stating that there is a very small percentage of players who were trading more than that in a legitimate fashion but that the vast majority were under the 500 gold limit.
So while larger amounts may be “normal” for you it is not for the player base and likely isn’t affecting most of us. I know I’ve only had over 500 gold one time and that was when I sold off some stockpiled things on the TP so I could buy things I needed for Nightfury. Which may or may not be normal, I can hardly generalize from my own experience, now can I? I don’t have the metrics.
Simply put can Anet pls lift or remove the 500gold (a week!) limit on sending gold to other players. Its annoying for delegating stuff in guild and guildies trading items outside of using TP. I’m sure its there for some stupid reason like dealing with gold sellers or cheaters or something but is just a nuisance for legit players.
500G may seem like an entirely arbitrary number, but I guarantee it is not. I took a look at our mail data (believe me, you guys really like mail and there is a lot of data) and set the value based on that. At 500G, it is not only functionally effective, but also it will only impact 0.175% of our players during an entire month’s worth of mails (if an account would hit the restriction once per month/30 days).
Looking more directly at those transactions, a large majority (98.228%) of those mails are being sent by RMT or compromised accounts (after selling off everything of value on an account).
Yes, there are going to be some edge cases that this is going to bump into, and as we look more into the impact that this change will have, we might change the restriction. However, we feel that this change is going to significantly impact RMT in our game along with help remove a very large reason to compromise accounts.
This is just the first step in our plan to help users keep their accounts secure. More will come as we progress through the year (and forevers!).
Cleary’s data suggests that only a few thousand players transfer 500 gold or more per week via email. It also suggests that many more are involved in buying black market gold or selling off assets from stolen accounts. This change, therefore, should protect many more people than it inconveniences. We should all be happy about that aspect.
There are two issues with the solution that are not covered by Cleary’s post:
How many people withdraw 500g or more from guild banks in a week? I suspect the fraction is much larger than stated, if only because I know lots of people that add/subtract a few 100g every few days; I know very few who have 500g at any given time.
How about guild leaders managing lotteries, donations to guilds moving from other servers, or otherwise pooling guild assets?
I’ll go ahead and pitch in on these 2 points, as they seem to be the most prevalent in the discussion so far.
On the first point about guild bank withdraws.
Yes, this will impact players with personal Guild Banks storing gold. However, a majority of players here are talking about personal guild banks for storage of wealth. These are basically the same as storing gold in the old personal bank. While there some benefits to doing this, the account wallet was implemented to be a single storage point for an account. On a single account basis, this does not impact anyone’s ability to move your gold unless you still have a large quantity of gold sitting in your guild bank as of today.
When multiple personal accounts are taken into account, this has a much larger impact on the ability to move wealth between accounts. This is just going to be an unfortunate side effect of clamping down on large wealth movements, and if you have multiple personal accounts, there are many different ways to store and transfer wealth between your accounts.
On to the second point about lotteries/donations/pooling assets.
There are plenty of workarounds that can be done for almost all of these situations that are being brought up. None of these situations are actually prevented by implementing the gold restriction, they are simply slowed down. Gold transfer does not need to be performed by one person/account for guild matters, as almost all guilds that are doing these activities have a guild officer core they can rely on.
There will always be cases where multiple of thousands of gold need to be moved, just plan ahead for those events. That being said, donations of gold are probably no longer the best means of transfering wealth between guild members if you are trying to move large quantities of wealth.
Gaile, thanks so much for forwarding those details.
Secondary question, though.
Since group-selling (taxis/paths/dungeons) are confirmed as legit, are there policies in place about how to handle scams/griefing? Or is that still very much “buyer beware” for those willing to buy/sell LFG spots?
Unfortunately, CS is seldom able to get a clear view on scams of this type. Tracking who agreed to what, and who promised to provide this service or that service is difficult to verify, especially when some of the arrangements are made or finalized outside the game (on Vent, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc.)
So every transaction of this nature is simply, by necessary, considered “Buyer and/or seller beware.” If the team is able to verify that a scam took place, they may be able to act upon the account of the scammer, but that would not involve returning lost items or currency or the fulfillment of the player-to-player “contract.”
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: TP fees are my insurance, as a player. They’re my protection as both a buyer and seller. Dodging fees might sounds attractive, in theory, but I’ve seen too many nasty outcomes to even consider doing trades or sales without using the game system that was built specifically to support those transactions.
And that is why we have the trading post and no player-to-player trading system – because too many players in GW1 got scammed and the system in GW2 was built to (hopefully) avoid that.
hmm yes well I said “stupid” because it is stupid and lazy…its punishing the many to limit the damage of a few in a reactionary measure. Ever noticed that your country has heaps more laws and workplace heaps more policies making life so much more difficult than it used to be? Of course Anet’s concern prob RL $ so as long as doesn’t affect that then not “stupid” from their perspective maybe.
As to TP, yeah i think its great having the TP (as opposed to GW1 and none), be nice to be able to trade as well without it tho.
I see that all this has been mentioned in that thread anyways so just asking Anet to review as after all the value of gold in this game changes over time. But if they need to keep a Gold trading limit because their security is so bad then I guess they won’t be changing it (hopefully is has gotten better over time? idk).
hmm yes well I said “stupid” because it is stupid and lazy…its punishing the many to limit the damage of a few in a reactionary measure. Ever noticed that your country has heaps more laws and workplace heaps more policies making life so much more difficult than it used to be? Of course Anet’s concern prob RL $ so as long as doesn’t affect that then not “stupid” from their perspective maybe.
As to TP, yeah i think its great having the TP (as opposed to GW1 and none), be nice to be able to trade as well without it tho.
I see that all this has been mentioned in that thread anyways so just asking Anet to review as after all the value of gold in this game changes over time. But if they need to keep a Gold trading limit because their security is so bad then I guess they won’t be changing it (hopefully is has gotten better over time? idk).
That is completely backwards of what ArenaNet has said.
Let me spell it out for you:
Looking more directly at those transactions, a large majority (98.228%) of those mails are being sent by RMT or compromised accounts (after selling off everything of value on an account).
At 500G, it is not only functionally effective, but also it will only impact 0.175% of our players during an entire month’s worth of mails (if an account would hit the restriction once per month/30 days).
Only 0.175% of players sending such large quantities of gold through the mail were legitimate.
This means that most accounts sending such large quantities of gold through the mail were NOT legitimate and WERE damaging to the game.
A majority of legitimate players who send gold through the mail send it in small amounts and will almost never hit the 500 gold limit.
You are the 0.175% of legit players affected by the limits. You are the MINORITY.
hmm yes well I said “stupid” because it is stupid and lazy…its punishing the many to limit the damage of a few in a reactionary measure.
It might have gotten over your head but according to their data for every legit player affected by this there are 50 gold sellers. Therefore let me correct your sentence
its punishing the few to limit the damage of a majority in a reactionary measure.
hmm I doubt the majority of players in the game are Gold Sellers but whatever, if you’re stupid enough to think such a measure is acceptable then I guess it is no surprise you have never been inconvenienced by Gold limits Suppose its a matter of perspective.
While we are on the subject though, it would also be nice to up the limit in Guild Bank from 1000 Gold as well.
Maybe I read it differently, but I think that 98.228% of the mails that were higher than 500G were RMT. So, that would mean that the legit traders were 11.772% of the 0.175%, amounting to 0.0206% of players. Or, one in every 5000 players.
Generosity is a virtue. Recognize that patience, too, is a virtue. Although I am highly suspicious that the OP isn’t actually generous, but is in reality a RMT who is brazen enough try and get the limit removed publicly.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
NC Soft wouldn’t sign off on creating resources that track the transfer of gold between accounts unless there was an incentive to do so. Gold sellers consistently undercut the BLTP price causing an instability of their gem value so I am 100% positive this limit was nothing more than a measure to protect their revenue.
If small minority of players get their feathers ruffled in exchange for a more stable gem value and they can sell it to players as a form of account protection because it would limit and flag any damage to a compromised account immediately I wouldn’t expect a policy change to happen any time in the near future.
nah i never done anything illegal in games nor even cheated in a game (over 30 years playing) but then i play for fun not as a means for alternate RL income earning, and i know of at least 5 ppl in my Guild who have played GW2 for ages, are legit and have over 100,000 gold…i also know 2 peeps legit who have well over a million.
End of the day i don’t care, just know of heaps peeps who annoyed with limit and I obviously don’t agree with the bullkittene approach of blanket reactive limits for trying to deal with security issues.
Idk smiling if its a revenue thing although I’m sure they wouldn’t have done it IF it affected their revenue stream in a negative way.
No-one would accept their bank putting a $500 limit on transfers.
hmm I doubt the majority of players in the game are Gold Sellers but whatever, if you’re stupid enough to think such a measure is acceptable then I guess it is no surprise you have never been inconvenienced by Gold limits Suppose its a matter of perspective.
While we are on the subject though, it would also be nice to up the limit in Guild Bank from 1000 Gold as well.
You got links showing what the numbers are which, unless Arenanet deliberately decided to fake numbers, show that over 98% of the activities affected by the 500 gold weekly limit are RMT related.
You go on calling the person who provided the numbers as stupid due to your own subjective opinion.
Somehow I doubt you understand what the word stupid means.
Fact of the matter is, the inconveniance of a very small minority of players (less than tiny actually) is more than justified for curbing RMT in the game if we consider:
- arenanet probably did not just implement this mechanism out of thin air but had reasons in doing so (maybe they felt the RMT was growing, who knows)
- the value they picked was carefully decided on by factoring for maximum impact on RMT an minimum impact on the playerbase
- they believe this limitation to be of benefit to the game overall
- RMT directly cuts into arenanets business model. Everyone complaining about them going heavy on promoting the gem store or removing liquid gold gains from the game economy should keep that in mind
Combined with mandatory reports on transactions over 3.000,- $ and supsicious activity reports if the bank detects attampts at wrongdoing.
With this in mind, you should be happy arenanet ONLY puts a limit on gold per week. Imagine you had to fill out a justification for each bigger transaction on the TP or else money gone.
Simply put can Anet pls lift or remove the 500gold (a week!) limit on sending gold to other players. Its annoying for delegating stuff in guild and guildies trading items outside of using TP. I’m sure its there for some stupid reason like dealing with gold sellers or cheaters or something but is just a nuisance for legit players.
You’ll never convince ANet to switch policies if you start by assuming they exist for “some stupid reason”. Even if the policy is a simplistic response to a complex issue, those proposing to change the status quo have to start with an understanding of why things are they way they are.
The rationale behind the policy has been explained, including data showing that nearly everyone sending more than 500g/week was involved in some aspect of Real Money Trading (including: laundering coin, distributing coin, and accepting coin for Real Money). It’s also been explained in this thread that the source of the coin includes stolen accounts and botting, both of which affect everyone in the community.
Thus, if you want this specific policy to change, you’ll need to come up with a different way to restrict gold buyers (the primary target). Instead, all you’ve offered is that the policy is inconvenient for some people (which, of course, it is); you have yet to suggest how the harm causes by raising the limit can be addressed in other ways.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
, they should be proactive.