Guild Wars 2

Any comments or input from the devs in regards to giving us some basic tools as guild leaders?

1) Date someone joined the guild
2) Last day/time they logged in
3) Custom chat channels
4) In game calendar for events

These items do not seem like much and really I would just like to see 1 and 2 for the simple fact that managing a guilds roster is near impossible. The best way we have come up with to track member activity is via achievement points, if they don’t change over a month then most likely that player has not logged in…. However this is a time intensive means of tracking as it involved database creation and usage outside the game…. BLEH!

Any input or links pointing to some possible info would be great. Heck Id even love to hear from other guild leaders on how they are handling their rosters?

Thanks all

1) Why would you need this? It would only create “seniority”, aka, “I was here first therefore I deserve more” or “stf|_| I was here first you dont know jack”. All negeative stuff, dont know why would you need it, really

2) Never going to happen, stop asking for it! This is a social game, people can be in multiple guilds and they dont have to log in everyday. The first step is “when did they log last?” followed by “have they been representing the guild all the time? How much they add to the guild?” This would give guild leaders the option to start requiring people to be solely representing and logging in a minimun set of time their guild, which defeats the multiguild system and the fact that not everyone can log in every day, edit: also defeats the "invisible logging option

3)Guilds have their own channel already? Anyways, also party and raid, but this one I can definitely see it being added in the future.

4) Agreed, we need this, my guild has the events on guild message but it is not the same.

Fortus.6175:

1) Why would you need this? It would only create “seniority”, aka, “I was here first therefore I deserve more” or “stf|_| I was here first you dont know jack”. All negeative stuff, dont know why would you need it, really

2) Never going to happen, stop asking for it! This is a social game, people can be in multiple guilds and they dont have to log in everyday. The first step is “when did they log last?” followed by “have they been representing the guild all the time? How much they add to the guild?” This would give guild leaders the option to start requiring people to be solely representing and logging in a minimun set of time their guild, which defeats the multiguild system and the fact that not everyone can log in every day, edit: also defeats the "invisible logging option

lol
there is a maximum of players that can be in a guild. once you get near that maximum you’re going to have to start kicking people who haven’t logged in for 5 months

Speaking of multiple guilds, how’s this intended to work? You’re completely disconnected from the guild you’re not representing, not being able to even have separate chatrooms for the guilds you belong to.

milo.6942:

Fortus.6175:

1) Why would you need this? It would only create “seniority”, aka, “I was here first therefore I deserve more” or “stf|_| I was here first you dont know jack”. All negeative stuff, dont know why would you need it, really

2) Never going to happen, stop asking for it! This is a social game, people can be in multiple guilds and they dont have to log in everyday. The first step is “when did they log last?” followed by “have they been representing the guild all the time? How much they add to the guild?” This would give guild leaders the option to start requiring people to be solely representing and logging in a minimun set of time their guild, which defeats the multiguild system and the fact that not everyone can log in every day, edit: also defeats the "invisible logging option

lol
there is a maximum of players that can be in a guild. once you get near that maximum you’re going to have to start kicking people who haven’t logged in for 5 months

unless you are inviting everyone you come across to, you will not run into this very often. My guild is full, we have around 100 people online at any given time, indeed we kick people but we do so by sending emails before, if after certain time they dont answer, off the drain they go. Sure I can see how seeing last time they logged in could be useful, but thats the only reason really, and it definitely does NOT outweight the negatives, which are elitism in their many shapes and forms they can come as.

@ Fortus

You must have had some terrible experiences in your past my friend, Im truly sorry. The tools Im asking for are to bring our guild closer together not the opposite. Though I can see how they may be used that way. I run Vanquish on TC… we are a close knit bunch that cares VERY little for a players in game accomplishments and puts an emphasis on the person behind the keyboard above all else. Granted we are an older bunch so this does help to a degree. We DO ask for 100% rep but that is because missing the day to day of guild chat breaks down overall guild cohesion and the close family feel we try to foster in Vanquish. I and my Officers know every member of the guild from those that have been with us for 10+ years to those that applied last week, we know what their goals are in game, their play times, what they are interested in etc… Not every guild that has the above tools at their disposal uses them in the ways you mention. Sorry this turned into a long wall of text but I felt the need to TRY and show you a diff side of things from someone who has run guilds for nearly 20 years of MMOs all the way back to text only.

Finally, I’m sorry this post got so quickly off topic… I was simply looking for some info = )

Oakos.2417:

@ Fortus

You must have had some terrible experiences in your past my friend, Im truly sorry. The tools Im asking for are to bring our guild closer together not the opposite. Though I can see how they may be used that way. I run Vanquish on TC… we are a close knit bunch that cares VERY little for a players in game accomplishments and puts an emphasis on the person behind the keyboard above all else. Granted we are an older bunch so this does help to a degree. We DO ask for 100% rep but that is because missing the day to day of guild chat breaks down overall guild cohesion and the close family feel we try to foster in Vanquish. I and my Officers know every member of the guild from those that have been with us for 10+ years to those that applied last week, we know what their goals are in game, their play times, what they are interested in etc… Not every guild that has the above tools at their disposal uses them in the ways you mention. Sorry this turned into a long wall of text but I felt the need to TRY and show you a diff side of things from someone who has run guilds for nearly 20 years of MMOs all the way back to text only.

Finally, I’m sorry this post got so quickly off topic… I was simply looking for some info = )

Please drop the condescending tone. Im sorry if my post came out as rude, wasnt my intention, but dont look down on me or “pity” me.I have only 11 years of experience in MMOs but I got many, MANY more in years in human nature experience and I can assure you that while you claim that it will be used for the right purpose, I can assure it will be used for wrong the purpose, like

Oakos.2417:

We DO ask for 100% rep

which you just admitted. Like life, we have different group of friends, some which have kids, some which dont, some which can do many things others which dont like said things like night life or the sort. To require the absolute and foremost attention of someone is unfair and selfish. I log every now and then on my old guild, help them out with their misions, people have moved to different servers but we still come together every now and then. What happens to people like me in a guild like yours? We get expelled or “called out”, that, is NOT the way to create a

Oakos.2417:

close family

instead you divide it. You create a close family by being personal, bring voice chat, breaking the game barriers, not by forcing them to be 100% or be expelled or “called out”.

As for going off topic, no, this is well in topic, it is, after all, the reason which Im glad it hasnt been implemented.

Yep, the basics are definitely missing. It’s clear this is not a “group” or social oriented game, it’s all about wham-bam solo zerg stuff, without concern specifically “who” is doing it.

Fortus, what is inherently wrong with 100% rep? People are made aware before they join the guild, if they find they can’t do that then they don’t have to join and it becomes a amicable “thanks for the interest and good luck in your endeavors”. It’s your opinion that it is wrong to ask for such a thing not a fact. The OP’s post was asking for more tools to make things easier in running day to day operations that would help him without having to rely on outside sources. Please don’t make a claim that because there is a potential for someone to abuse something it should not be made available for the people that intend to use it in a non abusive manner, I am fairly sure you can see the flaw in that logic without me having to really point it out.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Fortus, what is inherently wrong with 100% rep? People are made aware before they join the guild, if they find they can’t do that then they don’t have to join and it becomes a amicable “thanks for the interest and good luck in your endeavors”. It’s your opinion that it is wrong to ask for such a thing not a fact. The OP’s post was asking for more tools to make things easier in running day to day operations that would help him without having to rely on outside sources. Please don’t make a claim that because there is a potential for someone to abuse something it should not be made available for the people that intend to use it in a non abusive manner, I am fairly sure you can see the flaw in that logic without me having to really point it out.

Sure I see yours point, and I can see your flaw like I can see mine too. Ever heard of the prisoner dilemma or the crowd effect? They are unrelated to the topic, but they prove that human nature is selfish, wanting 100% representation is a selfish thing, because 99.99999% of the guilds I come across to have this, which pretty much pidgeonhole you into having to commit to one or be stuck in one of those “small guilds” that cant afford to say that and hence they have to let people come off and on at their convenience otherwise they lose the little people they’ve got.

Im sure you can see where Im going with this. This gives the guild leader the tool to harass their members into being 100% guild members or facing expulsion or diminushed rank. In a perfect world everyone comes together and do everything together, but if we were in said utopia then guild would have unlimited capacity and then you would have guild wars in which you can claim the loser’s guild into yours (like a chapter if you choose to) and eventually it becomes a server wide guild, it doesnt exist and for a good reason; people like to have options, period.

Im ok with some points of the OP, like the last 2, but I definitely disagree with 2 and to some extend 1

There have been a number of threads in the suggestion forum about needing more guild tools, but they seem to get buried under the “we want more/less zerg and more/less stuff” whines.

To address the issues in this thread:

1. The date someone joined isn’t that important. Unless your guild has specific seniority rules, in which you could actually do this on your guild’s website if you have one.

2. This I agree with. I know a lot of my guild plays at odd times, and I don’t always see them. It would be nice if I could see how long it has been since they played when I log in instead of relying on email or website visits.

3. There is already a guild chat channel, and it’s pretty adjustable as to what you want to see in that chat window.

4. This would be a good thing. Not everyone visits websites, and it would be good to be able to take a quick look to see what’s coming up next week.

I would add this to your list:

1. Mass email capabilities for the Leader. Being suppressed after 2 or 3 emails of the same thing is an all-around PITA. It would be nice to be able to send out a “newsletter” of sorts to everyone, but it would take a week to get everyone their mail under the current system.

Fortus.6175:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Fortus, what is inherently wrong with 100% rep? People are made aware before they join the guild, if they find they can’t do that then they don’t have to join and it becomes a amicable “thanks for the interest and good luck in your endeavors”. It’s your opinion that it is wrong to ask for such a thing not a fact. The OP’s post was asking for more tools to make things easier in running day to day operations that would help him without having to rely on outside sources. Please don’t make a claim that because there is a potential for someone to abuse something it should not be made available for the people that intend to use it in a non abusive manner, I am fairly sure you can see the flaw in that logic without me having to really point it out.

Sure I see yours point, and I can see your flaw like I can see mine too. Ever heard of the prisoner dilemma or the crowd effect? They are unrelated to the topic, but they prove that human nature is selfish, wanting 100% representation is a selfish thing, because 99.99999% of the guilds I come across to have this, which pretty much pidgeonhole you into having to commit to one or be stuck in one of those “small guilds” that cant afford to say that and hence they have to let people come off and on at their convenience otherwise they lose the little people they’ve got.

Im sure you can see where Im going with this. This gives the guild leader the tool to harass their members into being 100% guild members or facing expulsion or diminushed rank. In a perfect world everyone comes together and do everything together, but if we were in said utopia then guild would have unlimited capacity and then you would have guild wars in which you can claim the loser’s guild into yours (like a chapter if you choose to) and eventually it becomes a server wide guild, it doesnt exist and for a good reason; people like to have options, period.

Im ok with some points of the OP, like the last 2, but I definitely disagree with 2 and to some extend 1

There is a very good reason for wanting 100% rep and that is because it earns the guild influence and merits faster. Both of these are things put into the game by Anet to give a sense of importance to actually being part of a guild. Where you see “bad” intent at every turn I simply don’t. Sure there are selfish people there is no getting around that, I mean you could make the argument that breathing or eating is selfish since it only benefits the person doing it but c’mon does anyone really think that way? The point I am trying to make is it is your interpretation that 100% repping is bad and as such a opinion. If you want to rid the world of selfishness then stop trying to impose your concerns of what someone might do on others. What you are saying in essence is “I don’t like it so therefore it’s bad”, it’s a weak argument that holds no weight

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Fortus.6175:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Fortus, what is inherently wrong with 100% rep? People are made aware before they join the guild, if they find they can’t do that then they don’t have to join and it becomes a amicable “thanks for the interest and good luck in your endeavors”. It’s your opinion that it is wrong to ask for such a thing not a fact. The OP’s post was asking for more tools to make things easier in running day to day operations that would help him without having to rely on outside sources. Please don’t make a claim that because there is a potential for someone to abuse something it should not be made available for the people that intend to use it in a non abusive manner, I am fairly sure you can see the flaw in that logic without me having to really point it out.

Sure I see yours point, and I can see your flaw like I can see mine too. Ever heard of the prisoner dilemma or the crowd effect? They are unrelated to the topic, but they prove that human nature is selfish, wanting 100% representation is a selfish thing, because 99.99999% of the guilds I come across to have this, which pretty much pidgeonhole you into having to commit to one or be stuck in one of those “small guilds” that cant afford to say that and hence they have to let people come off and on at their convenience otherwise they lose the little people they’ve got.

Im sure you can see where Im going with this. This gives the guild leader the tool to harass their members into being 100% guild members or facing expulsion or diminushed rank. In a perfect world everyone comes together and do everything together, but if we were in said utopia then guild would have unlimited capacity and then you would have guild wars in which you can claim the loser’s guild into yours (like a chapter if you choose to) and eventually it becomes a server wide guild, it doesnt exist and for a good reason; people like to have options, period.

Im ok with some points of the OP, like the last 2, but I definitely disagree with 2 and to some extend 1

There is a very good reason for wanting 100% rep and that is because it earns the guild influence and merits faster. Both of these are things put into the game by Anet to give a sense of importance to actually being part of a guild. Where you see “bad” intent at every turn I simply don’t. Sure there are selfish people there is no getting around that, I mean you could make the argument that breathing or eating is selfish since it only benefits the person doing it but c’mon does anyone really think that way? The point I am trying to make is it is your interpretation that 100% repping is bad and as such a opinion. If you want to rid the world of selfishness then stop trying to impose your concerns of what someone might do on others. What you are saying in essence is “I don’t like it so therefore it’s bad”, it’s a weak argument that holds no weight

Well, but technically speaking, arent you then also “forcing” your ways onto me? That aside, we are now going off topic, so I will close this discussion by saying this; selfish is indeed a perceptive and circumstantial thing, varies in the person. A big guild shouldnt have any issues making influence and badges. Not everyone have all their friends in one guild or server for that matter, this is a game that [hopefully you will agree with me on this one] promotes socializing not only inside the guild, but outside of it too. Example; PvP guilds, PvE guilds, WvW Guilds, friend’s guilds, storage guilds. We all want to have it all in one, but this isnt the case, Im lucky to have a prety comprehensive guild myself, we are the biggest in the server, we do pretty much almost everything, yet Im allowed to go represent my other guild every now and then, to give some of my rep to them, my time to their missions. Before that I was in a guild which required me 100% representation time, you know what happened? I got kicked. Guild wars 2 introduced multiguilding for a reason other than free storage, why should I be punished for using it correctly?

100% is bad for social people, giving the guild leaders the tool to harass their members about it is not cool.

Fortus.6175:

Well, but technically speaking, arent you then also “forcing” your ways onto me? That aside, we are now going off topic, so I will close this discussion by saying this; selfish is indeed a perceptive and circumstantial thing, varies in the person. A big guild shouldnt have any issues making influence and badges. Not everyone have all their friends in one guild or server for that matter, this is a game that [hopefully you will agree with me on this one] promotes socializing not only inside the guild, but outside of it too. Example; PvP guilds, PvE guilds, WvW Guilds, friend’s guilds, storage guilds. We all want to have it all in one, but this isnt the case, Im lucky to have a prety comprehensive guild myself, we are the biggest in the server, we do pretty much almost everything, yet Im allowed to go represent my other guild every now and then, to give some of my rep to them, my time to their missions. Before that I was in a guild which required me 100% representation time, you know what happened? I got kicked. Guild wars 2 introduced multiguilding for a reason other than free storage, why should I be punished for using it correctly?

100% is bad for social people, giving the guild leaders the tool to harass their members about it is not cool.

No it’s not forcing anyone’s way on you. If the tools are implemented you have the choice to use them or not use them. Just as you have the choice to run a guild that is not 100% rep required, just as people who want to join a guild have the choice if being required to have 100% rep is acceptable to them etc etc. I am still social with other people outside of my guild, I mean that is why I have a friends list after all and I can do whatever I wish with them anytime I wish. I get it you don’t like 100% rep you have your opinion of what it is and that is fine for you, but again don’t use that as a reason to keep others from having a tool that could help them make their “jobs” easier, especially since you are not forced to use the tool even if it gets implemented.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Fortus.6175:

Well, but technically speaking, arent you then also “forcing” your ways onto me? That aside, we are now going off topic, so I will close this discussion by saying this; selfish is indeed a perceptive and circumstantial thing, varies in the person. A big guild shouldnt have any issues making influence and badges. Not everyone have all their friends in one guild or server for that matter, this is a game that [hopefully you will agree with me on this one] promotes socializing not only inside the guild, but outside of it too. Example; PvP guilds, PvE guilds, WvW Guilds, friend’s guilds, storage guilds. We all want to have it all in one, but this isnt the case, Im lucky to have a prety comprehensive guild myself, we are the biggest in the server, we do pretty much almost everything, yet Im allowed to go represent my other guild every now and then, to give some of my rep to them, my time to their missions. Before that I was in a guild which required me 100% representation time, you know what happened? I got kicked. Guild wars 2 introduced multiguilding for a reason other than free storage, why should I be punished for using it correctly?

100% is bad for social people, giving the guild leaders the tool to harass their members about it is not cool.

No it’s not forcing anyone’s way on you. If the tools are implemented you have the choice to use them or not use them. Just as you have the choice to run a guild that is not 100% rep required, just as people who want to join a guild have the choice if being required to have 100% rep is acceptable to them etc etc. I am still social with other people outside of my guild, I mean that is why I have a friends list after all and I can do whatever I wish with them anytime I wish. I get it you don’t like 100% rep you have your opinion of what it is and that is fine for you, but again don’t use that as a reason to keep others from having a tool that could help them make their “jobs” easier, especially since you are not forced to use the tool even if it gets implemented.

here is the thing, this “tool” is being asked for a reason; to be used. It is lke saying “Im asking to have nuclear permission but it is ok, I dont plan to use it, Im not gonna use it against you or anything once I have it”. Lets be real, the reason anyone would like this tool is simple; to see who is logging in and who isnt, and I can guarantee you that after that they will ask for the representation “pie” portion of your time that you are on. If you wont kick or inflict any “punishment” to anyone because they are representing someone else and just want to know just because, then thats not better than saying I want to be able to have nuclear missile just to look at it, not to use it. It is an extreme analogy but it does fit with this, in that if the leader will not take actions with the tool why would he even want it in the first place, and if the leader wants to take actions with it then I definitely dont want it. Nothing good is gained, because only the leader can look at it, so it isnt a tool that makes the guild members life better, if anything it stresses them out because now they cant sneak under the “boss” nose and help a friend out with their guild.

Once again, I really hate this “dont use it then” excuses, if you are not gonna use it why ask? You want it because you want to use it, period! Having it will give the tool the leader to enforce and “justify” kicks in the guild. Im sorry, but simply put thats terrible.

Wanna know a tool that could make everyone win? Guild alliances, even from other servers, you can make hours-day long alliances with other guilds in which a shared chat option would appear and any action that is done during that time will count towards both guilds. You get to do what you want with your friends and both guild win. Would this get abused? Definitely, I can imagine small guilds buying or making alliances with other guilds just to farm influence, but think about it, wouldnt that make the game even more sociable, and bring people together too?

Im opposed agaisnt tools that go agaisnt keeping the game social, Im definitely down for tools that make the game even more social

/cheers

If anything we can come up with a compromise; once the guild is full, an option to the last 30-50 members who havent logged recently with a threshold, say 1-3 months will be tagged. You wont be able to tell what people are doing but given that your guild reached 500 people we can assume then that the guild has been active for more than 3 months, anyone who hasnt logged in that amount of time would be flagged red to the guild leader, they get kicked, make room for the newer members and everyone can continue doing their guild sharing business.

Solves the leavers problem, let people do whatever the heck they want without the pressure of having to be fully commited to anyone as if it were a marriage, you get your room for newer, active members and no harrassment from the guild leader since there are no prove for something that shouldnt even be punished in the first place, Im pretty sure Anet intended guild multisharing when they created the system, we have to understand that like life, we dont have to be affiliated with only one thing; we have family, friends, work, hobbits, goverment , religion, etc, only being able to belong to one applies to monks and some of them even complain about it.

Fortus.6175:

here is the thing, this “tool” is being asked for a reason; to be used. It is lke saying “Im asking to have nuclear permission but it is ok, I dont plan to use it, Im not gonna use it against you or anything once I have it”. Lets be real, the reason anyone would like this tool is simple; to see who is logging in and who isnt, and I can guarantee you that after that they will ask for the representation “pie” portion of your time that you are on. If you wont kick or inflict any “punishment” anyone because they are representing someone else and just want to know just because then thats not better than saying I want to be able to have nuclear missile just to look at it, not to use it. It is an extreme analogy but it does fit with this, in that if the leader will not take actions with the tool why would he even want it in the first place, and if the leader wants to take actions with it then I definitely dont want it. Nothing good is gained, because only the leader can look at it, so it isnt a tool that makes the guild members life better, if anything it stresses them out because now they cant sneak under the “boss” nose and help a friend out with their guild.

Once again, I really hate this “dont use it then” excuses, if you are not gonna use it why ask? You want it because you want to use it, period! Having it will give the tool the leader to enforce and “justify” kicks in the guild. Im sorry, but simply put thats terrible.

Wanna know a tool that could make everyone win? Guild alliances, even from other servers, you can make hours-day long alliances with other guilds in which a shared chat option would appear and any action that is done during that time will count towards both guilds. You get to do what you want with your friends and both guild win. Would this get abused? Definitely, I can imagine small guilds buying or making alliances with other guilds just to farm influence, but think about it, wouldnt that make the game even more sociable, and bring people together too?

Im opposed agaisnt tools that go agaisnt keeping the game social, Im definitely down for tools that make the game even more social

/cheers

You are still using the exact same argument, of forcing your opinion. You can not possibly know the reason someone would use the tool, it could very well just be to make it easier to clean roster from players who have not been active for a certain length of time to make room for new members, it could be any number of valid reasons and yes it could potentially be used by some evil dictator of a guild leader to make his underlings squirm, but the point is you really have no idea. You will probably never see that you are projecting intent and using that as a sole reason that having this tool would be bad. If it gets implemented YOU never have to use it for any reason good or bad, but another person can use it to help make their “management” functions easier. People use knives to prepare food with, but people also use them to stab people, so do we make sure that no one can have access to a knife because some people misuse it? It’s a rhetorical question and does not require a answer because I have said all that I can say about it without this being repeated ad nauseam.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

it could very well just be to make it easier to clean roster from players who have not been active for a certain length of time to make room for new members,.

this solves it, it is a middle ground where you get to clean roster and cannot be used for dictatorships;

Fortus.6175:

If anything we can come up with a compromise; once the guild is full, an option to the last 30-50 members who havent logged recently with a threshold, say 1-3 months will be tagged. You wont be able to tell what people are doing but given that your guild reached 500 people we can assume then that the guild has been active for more than 3 months, anyone who hasnt logged in that amount of time would be flagged red to the guild leader, they get kicked, make room for the newer members and everyone can continue doing their guild sharing business.

Solves the leavers problem, let people do whatever the heck they want without the pressure of having to be fully commited to anyone as if it were a marriage, you get your room for newer, active members and no harrassment from the guild leader since there are no prove for something that shouldnt even be punished in the first place, Im pretty sure Anet intended guild multisharing when they created the system, we have to understand that like life, we dont have to be affiliated with only one thing; we have family, friends, work, hobbits, goverment , religion, etc, only being able to belong to one applies to monks and some of them even complain about it.

Then comes this;

ShadowPuppet.3746:

it could be any number of valid reasons and yes it could potentially be used by some evil dictator of a guild leader to make his underlings squirm, but the point is you really have no idea..

I seriously cant think of any other reason you would need besides that, perhaps, you could enlight me?

Oh and please stop it with the “forcing your opinion on someone” argument, because it is a tug war that isnt any better than “my dad is better than yours” since we both believe our opinion is the right one and the other one is the one being forced, when in reality we both are forcing it on each other, only that I can recognize it :/

Fortus.6175:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

it could very well just be to make it easier to clean roster from players who have not been active for a certain length of time to make room for new members,.

this solves it, it is a middle ground where you get to clean roster and cannot be used for dictatorships;

Fortus.6175:

If anything we can come up with a compromise; once the guild is full, an option to the last 30-50 members who havent logged recently with a threshold, say 1-3 months will be tagged. You wont be able to tell what people are doing but given that your guild reached 500 people we can assume then that the guild has been active for more than 3 months, anyone who hasnt logged in that amount of time would be flagged red to the guild leader, they get kicked, make room for the newer members and everyone can continue doing their guild sharing business.

Solves the leavers problem, let people do whatever the heck they want without the pressure of having to be fully commited to anyone as if it were a marriage, you get your room for newer, active members and no harrassment from the guild leader since there are no prove for something that shouldnt even be punished in the first place, Im pretty sure Anet intended guild multisharing when they created the system, we have to understand that like life, we dont have to be affiliated with only one thing; we have family, friends, work, hobbits, goverment , religion, etc, only being able to belong to one applies to monks and some of them even complain about it.

Then comes this;

ShadowPuppet.3746:

it could be any number of valid reasons and yes it could potentially be used by some evil dictator of a guild leader to make his underlings squirm, but the point is you really have no idea..

I seriously cant think of any other reason you would need besides that, perhaps, you could enlight me?

I dunno maybe just to see when the largest portion of your guild members play to make it easier for scheduling events without having to ask each member what times they frequently play. Maybe you have a friend in the guild whom you have not seen for a time that is unusual for them and it will trigger you to contact them in some manner. It’s all hypotheticals at this point really, and I realize that by you asking me to name other situations where it is not potentially abusive you are trying to make a point that it only has negative potential but again that is projecting intent. Because you or I can’t possibly think of all the reasons someone could use this does not make the reasons bad. The reality is YOU don’t like it, and don’t think anyone could ever use it for a positive reason (most likely because of your experience with being kicked from a guild) and that is fine it is your right to feel that way, but it is not a very compelling argument to use against having a tool that someone can find a use for.

Fight Fight Fight Fight!!!!

champ.7021:

Fight Fight Fight Fight!!!!

Wooohoo! where?

ShadowPuppet.3746:

I dunno maybe just to see when the largest portion of your guild members play to make it easier for scheduling events without having to ask each member what times they frequently play. Maybe you have a friend in the guild whom you have not seen for a time that is unusual for them and it will trigger you to contact them in some manner. It’s all hypotheticals at this point really, and I realize that by you asking me to name other situations where it is not potentially abusive you are trying to make a point that it only has negative potential but again that is projecting intent. Because you or I can’t possibly think of all the reasons someone could use this does not make the reasons bad. The reality is YOU don’t like it, and don’t think anyone could ever use it for a positive reason (most likely because of your experience with being kicked from a guild) and that is fine it is your right to feel that way, but it is not a very compelling argument to use against having a tool that someone can find a use for.

But you see, unless Im provided with “positive” feedback on a possible good way that does not involve the kicking issue then there is no reason for me to believe otherwise. The OP didnt say the reason in the original post but did reveal his true intentions were to enforce the 100% rep, so I can only see malicious intent from him, even if he doesnt see it as malicious, but enforcing 10% vs someone who doesnt want to and who supposedly was promised by Anet that they could be in multiple guilds do believe so.
You said about not having to ask one by one whats the best time, do you think having the last time someone logged in is good? Well, it isnt, it only tells you the last time they logged in, thats it, it doesnt tell you for how long and how often, therefore it cant be used for that. Want to know the true solution to that? Make it like youtube, an ANONYMOUS flowchart which shows the most activity of the guild based upon time, that way you know what and when is the best time for guild activities.

Like I said, throw all the “positive” outcome that culd possible come from knowing when was the last time someone logged in and represented the guild and I will show you a way to not reveal that and still solve the problem.

So far it has been the cleaning space and guild activity, both were solved. Whats next?

ShadowPuppet.3746:

champ.7021:

Fight Fight Fight Fight!!!!

Wooohoo! where?

I want some too! Should I bring some pop-corn?

Luckily, no one banned the pen and paper approach to recording stuff just because someone use the pen to stab someone.

I like those ideas, and right now, I do Guild Management with the use of external tools.
1. Date Joined – I use it to greet members for their “Guild Join Day” (like birthday, except it’s the day member joined the guild). I also use this to track how long a member has been a “good” member, because all members of our guild becomes “guild owner” i.e. all of them can activate buffs, missions, etc. So all members must be with guild for a certain time, with good track record, because if not, a member can go berserk and start kicking all members, steal all guild items, and activate all buffs.

2. Login time – very useful to me. Our guild try to maintain a certain active players at certain time. Right now, I login at different time, check how many are logged in, and if it dips below our goal, I start recruiting for that time. It is very hard for me, specially in day time, because I work and can’t always login. But it will be useful if I can just look and say "Hmmm, 1pm-4pm has low attendance, I should start recruiting "

3. Don’t need it at this time, Commander can always make a Squad chat
4. In-game calendar – badly needed

I am not saying all above can not be done by other means, heckittenep an Excel document for tracking it all. I use other websites to set dates, and use fbook for announcements.

If anything else, I’d like:

• Auto-mail/Auto-chat on new announcement
• Auto-mail/Auto-chat on new guild event based on game calendar
• Guild Leader/Guild Officer/Members map icon i.e. you can see guildmates even if not in party/squad to better direct members for events (i know, you can see commander tags, but this is for guild members only)

I can add more (like Guild Halls) but I will stop here…

Fortus.6175:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

champ.7021:

Fight Fight Fight Fight!!!!

Wooohoo! where?

I want some too! Should I bring some pop-corn?

YOU CANT EAT POPCORN WHILE YOU FIGHT!!!!
unless you’re bringing it for me

And props to above poster, he seems like a really great guild manager.

Fortus.6175:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

I dunno maybe just to see when the largest portion of your guild members play to make it easier for scheduling events without having to ask each member what times they frequently play. Maybe you have a friend in the guild whom you have not seen for a time that is unusual for them and it will trigger you to contact them in some manner. It’s all hypotheticals at this point really, and I realize that by you asking me to name other situations where it is not potentially abusive you are trying to make a point that it only has negative potential but again that is projecting intent. Because you or I can’t possibly think of all the reasons someone could use this does not make the reasons bad. The reality is YOU don’t like it, and don’t think anyone could ever use it for a positive reason (most likely because of your experience with being kicked from a guild) and that is fine it is your right to feel that way, but it is not a very compelling argument to use against having a tool that someone can find a use for.

The OP didnt say the reason in the original post but did reveal his true intentions were to enforce the 100% rep, so I can only see malicious intent from him, even if he doesnt see it as malicious, but enforcing 10% vs someone who doesnt want to and who supposedly was promised by Anet that they could be in multiple guilds do believe so.

Ok my final response to you about this since we have derailed the thread long enough is, that it is a choice if someone joins a guild that requires 100% rep, they are not forced to join. For people that want to float around between guilds then obviously 100% rep is not a good fit but that really has nothing to do with a request for a guild management tool. You still are making a argument against having a simple tool based on what a guild leader could potentially use it for and projecting what you are “afraid” they might do. Are there other alternatives besides having a simple line of code to display login activity? Absolutely, but it is a much larger amount of work to go through and program entire new interfaces based solely on the possibility that someone could use it in a negative way. Just because you can not see how it could be used in a positive manner does not mean it can’t be. It’s really that simple, no need to try and make the op out to be some malicious individual based on a interpretation you have of the only potential use for having a simple time/date stamp.

My poor thread! LOL…

That said, I am honestly humbled and impressed with how well you all handled where this thread ended up going, even if off topic. Fortus, Id love to chat with you one on one at some point…while I stand by my decisions to run my guild as a 100% rep guild I am always on the look out for opinions that may sway me otherwise as I can foresee this as being part of future MMOs.

I do have to say that I was a bit taken aback however when you said: " The OP didnt say the reason in the original post but did reveal his true intentions were to enforce the 100% rep, so I can only see malicious intent from him, even if he doesnt see it as malicious"

You don’t know myself so I cant really blame you for reading between the lines…. BUT… I care about my members, many I have know for over a decade… I have seen them marry, have kids, move from MMO to MMO and even been witness to a few RL passing…… I would never wish them or anyone any ill will or implement anything that may stop them from enjoying their game time, be that in GW2 or any MMO we find ourselves in.

That said, thank you sir, for your well written input and opinions, it does make me think on my position and that is of HIGH value to myself.

i agree thac why evry guild is EPIC JOKEEEE

I like if a tool like that would exist even though I’m a guild hopper.
If you don’t like, a good compromise would either find a guild that won’t utilize/won’t care about repping 100%, or create your own guild and manage it however you like. I am sure there are others who think the way you do. Don’t let your “playstyle” dictate the evolution of the game.

Oakos.2417:

1) Date someone joined the guild

I havnt read all the replies and someone allready tol you this, but the time a player has been in a guild can be seen in the roster history.

Fortus.6175:

1) Why would you need this? It would only create “seniority”, aka, “I was here first therefore I deserve more” or “stf|_| I was here first you dont know jack”. All negeative stuff, dont know why would you need it, really

2) Never going to happen, stop asking for it! This is a social game, people can be in multiple guilds and they dont have to log in everyday. The first step is “when did they log last?” followed by “have they been representing the guild all the time? How much they add to the guild?” This would give guild leaders the option to start requiring people to be solely representing and logging in a minimun set of time their guild, which defeats the multiguild system and the fact that not everyone can log in every day, edit: also defeats the "invisible logging option

3)Guilds have their own channel already? Anyways, also party and raid, but this one I can definitely see it being added in the future.

4) Agreed, we need this, my guild has the events on guild message but it is not the same.

yeah, and, why not, your guild, your rules. Do you have any long time guild experience in any mmorpg? Guild rosters tend to clutter up with people who left the game months ago. Quite reasonable to be able to clean up once in a while. You can be as “social gaming” in your guild as much as you like, doesn´t mean everyone has to adhere to your personal standards.

regarding guild tools. A good tool will allow the user to use it in whatever way they wish to do the job required of it. A bad tool requires work arounds and kludge fixes to do what it is supposed to.

The roster should be a tool for you to see who is in your guild, it then follows it should have tools in it to allow leaders to manage who they want in their guild, at what rank they wish them and give them the info they need to decide who goes where and when.

The policies about 100% rep etc come after the tools. In other words the tools enable the policies. What people choose to do with the policy is up to them, and it’s up to the member if they want to stay or not(it’s not like people can prevent people from leaving is it)

For example. Is seeing people’s crafting levels on the roster more important to seeing when they last logged in?

IMHO a big No.

Personally I think Anet put multi-guilding in the game and had then no idea how to use it, or what it was for. They just like the idea of it.

How it works at the moment it’s like leaving a guild, joining another and then rejoining back again. You are totally separated from one group of friends to another(assuming you dont want to message them individually.. You have been suppressed…)

For the purpose of playing with groups of friends it’s very sub par in that once you stop repping in a guild all the fun stuff your friends are getting up to while you away you don’t see. You have no idea what’s going on from one group of friends to the other.

It’s like having to go visit a friends house every time you want to talk to them.

Common sense says people should be able to, if they wish see the chat from all the groups of friends they belong to without needing to isolate others. It’s basic.. Obvious and it’s omission is just odd.

Out of all the systems in the game, the guild and indeed social tools are by far the least developed and fit for purpose. It really feels like time ran out, and they didn’t bother finishing the job.

The multiple guild issue isn’t a problem in most cases. Yes, there are some guilds out there that require 100%rep, but in truth, they are few and relatively far between. Most of them are (trying to avoid the term “hardcore”) more organized and and adhere to some sort of schedule. Social guilds, not so much.

Representing one guild 100% of the time defeats the “multiple guild” capabilities of the game, but I can see where it could be useful in specific situations as vaguely mentioned above.

If given the choice, I would rather have the “last log-in” feature instead. Other than guessing or requiring web site attendance, there is no way to tell when someone quits the game or has been gone so long that you forget them.

Ashabhi.1365:

If given the choice, I would rather have the “last log-in” feature instead. Other than guessing or requiring web site attendance, there is no way to tell when someone quits the game or has been gone so long that you forget them.

You can! By logging your members AP you can see if someone actually plays or not. Its a pain to compare screenshots, but its the only tool in the toolbag we got.