Guild Wars 2

frans.8092:

Jerus.4350:

The tactics you seem to think are bad are there to maintain organization,

Sorry, if it’s going on as described by her, they are bad, very bad.

Agreed.

frans.8092:

Jerus.4350:

The tactics you seem to think are bad are there to maintain organization,

Sorry, if it’s going on as described by her, they are bad, very bad.

He describes it with a very negative spin. But lets look at this from the perspective of someone who joins these maps and tries to become part of the community on the map instead of someone just looking out for themselves.

You get in, and you’ll see over the course of hours advertisements for the TS server that is organizing that map. This is repeated regularly. Also the people who lead these things are all very nice people, if you have some special case where TS is not an option, send them a tell if you have a question, again all nice people (just becuase they have a commander tag doesn’t mean they are one of the people actually leading the organization, a few of the commanders I have seen have been jerks, but most of the guys/gals in the TS channels are quite nice)

Personally I sit in the AFK channel of that Teamspeak, because I really don’t care for the chit chat, but I do want to be able to hear instructions when it seems like organization is happening. They generally say something in map chat or everything quiets down and I know a purge is going on, how do I know about purges? Because, I was proactive and checked the teamspeak when everyone disappeared.

If you attempt to be involved with the map these things don’t affect you in any negative way really, it only helps.

If you have done CP you notice a trend, while things may start out balanced with ~10-15 on each boss, as time goes on you’ll have less and less at most bosses while wiggins and pyro get more and more. This is when we start to have slower and slower completion times till we start hitting silver. We also get people who don’t pay attention and kill bosses early and other unorganized situations. These purges help fix that by letting those who are unwilling to be involved think the map is done. Again, simply joining the TS or sending a tell would get them fixed up, but if they can’t do that… they’re a detriment to the rest of the map as the maps success is based on it’s organization.

If everyone came in and actually cared to do their part for the success of the map, then things like this wouldn’t be necessary, but unfortunately we don’t live in that world. And when 40-60 people are willing to organize, but the other 15-35 keep screwing it up for the rest, it’s on them if they don’t want to join the community so we can all keep getting golds.

Sorry but I’m not a believer in “the end justifies the means”.

Stars.2179:

Guhracie.3419:

You don’t understand how the boss blitz works if you think anyone is being griefed because they’re “holding” the boss for burn. Some groups get bosses down faster than others, for a variety of reasons related to group makeup. So if Sparcus is at 80% and Kuraii is at 10%, nobody is griefing “that guy” by saying, "Hey, stop dps on Kuraii until Sparcus is lower, and don’t run to each boss and kill them, or Boom-Boom will take forever to get down and we’ll get worse rewards. Everyone, including “that guy,” is getting worse rewards because he is not playing the strategy.

I understand perfectly how boss blitz works having led several boss groups to 20-30 gold runs every night for the last three weeks with consistent 2:00+ on the clock on most night as well as having 3:30+ on the clock on the best night.

In your example, if Kuraii is already 10% and Sparc still at 80%. If you know there are random pugs who would keep attacking you should have stopped Kuraii at 50% then send some people to speed up Sparc. If you can’t do that then you’re not as organized and you don’t deserve a gold chest.

It is meant for extremely organized group and if you’re not an organized group then gold reward isn’t for that group, just like the Evolved Jungle Wurm. And guess what? a silver or a even a bronze isn’t that bad.

Guhracie.3419:

Yes, ideally all the bosses will burn down at the same time with four or so minutes to spare. But it’s pretty obvious that many instances of the Pavilion are far from ideal. And if the boss is scaled right, all it takes is one or two people attacking and that 20% melts away. To say that a random PUG of 70 people should be able to make allowances for ten people who don’t care or don’t bother to pay attention is really not true.

The 10 people shouldn’t be to make allowance for the 70 grumpy people to get a gold reward either. If they can’t take it and get a silver/bronze then they need to take a break and chill. The 10 people are not breaking any rule. They are playing contents as it is designed to be played, i.e., kill the bosses as fast as possible (within their capability).

In a sense telling them to hold and kill the bosses at the same time can be considered as an exploit because you essentially stop the bosses from giving each other’s their power by giving them practically no time – but this is just one way to look at things – not my personal opinion.

Guhracie.3419:

This level of strategy is not suited for open-world. You can tell because ideal runs happen most often in instances populated by coordinated guilds or groups of guilds. Ideal runs happen when people force it to become essentially a private raid.

Yup All of the runs I’ve been with have Teamspeak coordination. Granted there are pugs who sometimes killed bosses sooner. And yes I’ve taken about 122 silvers and 64 bronzes out of the 1394 runs I’ve done, but most of the time we managed.

Guhracie.3419:

Why should so few people be able to so effectively ruin an event for so many? A festival event, no less. It doesn’t make sense, and it’s bad.

Maybe sit back and enjoy a few silver/ bronzes instead of freaking out “OMFGYUNOOOB Killing BOOSSS EARLY”? It’s a festival, chill

I am not abusive to other players, first of all. You don’t know me; don’t suggest that I’m spouting the “OMFGYUNOOOB” mentality. The blame for this is squarely on ANET.

You lost me when you suggested that holding off on killing the bosses could be viewed as an exploit. No. It cannot. It can be viewed as the only viable kittening strategy by which to earn gold rewards. Tell you what. You get gold BB killing the bosses one at a time (since preventing them from gaining the skills of the other bosses is what makes it a potential exploit, by your suggestion) and put it on youtube, and I will grovel before your greatness.

Back in the real world, though, I will point out that this is obviously the strategy ANET intended with this design, despite doing nothing to facilitate it.

I seriously cannot believe that there are people defending the design choices ANET made here. I guess it’s lucky that some people enjoy having their rewards locked behind 60 people, and that they also enjoy not knowing if those people will care to help or hinder in the fight. Or if half of those people are taking up space in the instance, doing the gauntlet- which I am, right now.

I guess ANET lucked out with players who are so chill with spending time trying to get to an organized instance if they want gold rewards, or who are happy to spend two hours on a bronze blitz so that everyone can play the way they want to. Seems legit.

This is turning into the Champ Train arguing again.

Azhure.1857:

Sorry but I’m not a believer in “the end justifies the means”.

It’s not in any way ends justifying means, it’s simply people organizing a map and doing what they feel is necessary to keep the map organized. In fact this same guild has rules against things like telling people to alt f4 or other very underhanded things like that. The lying isn’t something they are telling people to do, they tell people to just go hide and be quiet.

But if you want to be bitter about it go ahead.

In any way, greifing an entire map based upon these things is in no way ethical.

Maugrem.7608:

Azhure.1857:

How is unicorngirl a troll?

This user is the person that was trolling our instance and following us to new instances with the expressed purpose of making us fail our gold runs. The group ended up disbanding after 5 or 6 attempts. Using a Warrior by the name of The Greefer in a fake TTS guild tag.

Before the user denies it I already sent screenshots of map chat and global emotes to Anet so let’s see what happens.

Of me doing what, exactly? Killing monsters? I thought that was the point of the game…

Jerus.4350:

Azhure.1857:

Sorry but I’m not a believer in “the end justifies the means”.

It’s not in any way ends justifying means, it’s simply people organizing a map and doing what they feel is necessary to keep the map organized.

Do you even read what you type before you click ‘Reply’?

Azhure.1857:

Jerus.4350:

Azhure.1857:

Sorry but I’m not a believer in “the end justifies the means”.

It’s not in any way ends justifying means, it’s simply people organizing a map and doing what they feel is necessary to keep the map organized.

Do you even read what you type before you click ‘Reply’?

Ends justifying means implies that you’re doing something unethical for the greater good. Hiding isn’t unethical.

Jerus.4350:

Ends justifying means implies that you’re doing something unethical for the greater good. Hiding isn’t unethical.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. It is still an underhanded method of removing those that don’t “measure up” out of an instance. Though you mention it as being the only method you use, which may be true, it is not true in all cases. I’ve heard from unicorngirl on this thread and others on similar threads describing mistreatment at the hands of groups/guilds that do believe in ‘By Any Means Necessary’.

• Hiding
• Reporting
• Verbal Abuse

I understand that it is frustrating when people don’t listen. Or people that may even be intentionally trolling a group that is trying to organize an event like CP – yet we somehow have to make it work. You and yours have found ways of doing that…. but lets not lie to ourselves that they are good methods.

No it’s very unfortunate that some individuals resort to verbal abuse. But don’t let a few people skew your view of an entire map. There are 75 people on a map, if 5 of them are being jerks that doesn’t in any way give someone the right to ruin things for the other 70 people.

The reporting I saw last night was on the wake of someone Named very well for this thread continually training groups with adds quite intentionally griefing. Normally I assume someone training adds is just someone being unaware of what they were doing, in which case I offer to teach them how to get to bosses without bringing adds. But in this case their name made it quite clear what their intentions were.

Hiding, it’s simply “i’m taking my ball and going home” for a round. Childish, maybe, but when you deal with uncooperative people sometimes walking away is your only civil option. Like I said before, I personally wish this were the good old school PVP where I could beat them into submission, but it’s not, so being civil is all that’s really left.

Again though, the guild in question has rules, if you tell people to alt f4, you’re treated the same as someone griefing and slapped with a TS ban if they can identify you, and put on their “do not taxi” list. They try to maintain a level of respect, but again there are 75 people per map, and no matter how much they wish people would just be civil with one another, there is no way to force that. They ask nicely for people to just be quiet, if someone does start speaking up in map chat the people actually leading it kindly ask them to be quiet in TS. But 50+ people on average is a lot of cats to herd, that’s why personally I’m so happy these folks are willing to do it, and why I’m thankful to them and feel it’s only fair that the other side of the story be said as well.

At this point I don’t believe the griefers will stop, I don’t believe they have any grasp of ethical behavior. The fact that some of them act as if they are on some moral high ground is just laughable. SO I’ve said what i wanted to say, and you can take it or leave it. I’d invite you to actually join one of the teamspeaks and get involved in that community and judge for yourself instead of taking the word of someone who’s been questioned here as simply fact.

Jerus, I understand your position. I do. But as I said in my last post, unicorngirl is not the only one that has come to these forums with complaints concerning this very issue. I’m not just taking one person’s side in this.

I’m glad your guild in particular has some standards… but not all groups/guilds do apparently.

Jerus.4350:

No it’s very unfortunate that some individuals resort to verbal abuse. But don’t let a few people skew your view of an entire map. There are 75 people on a map, if 5 of them are being jerks that doesn’t in any way give someone the right to ruin things for the other 70 people.

The reporting I saw last night was on the wake of someone Named very well for this thread continually training groups with adds quite intentionally griefing. Normally I assume someone training adds is just someone being unaware of what they were doing, in which case I offer to teach them how to get to bosses without bringing adds. But in this case their name made it quite clear what their intentions were.

Hiding, it’s simply “i’m taking my ball and going home” for a round. Childish, maybe, but when you deal with uncooperative people sometimes walking away is your only civil option. Like I said before, I personally wish this were the good old school PVP where I could beat them into submission, but it’s not, so being civil is all that’s really left.

Again though, the guild in question has rules, if you tell people to alt f4, you’re treated the same as someone griefing and slapped with a TS ban if they can identify you, and put on their “do not taxi” list. They try to maintain a level of respect, but again there are 75 people per map, and no matter how much they wish people would just be civil with one another, there is no way to force that. They ask nicely for people to just be quiet, if someone does start speaking up in map chat the people actually leading it kindly ask them to be quiet in TS. But 50+ people on average is a lot of cats to herd, that’s why personally I’m so happy these folks are willing to do it, and why I’m thankful to them and feel it’s only fair that the other side of the story be said as well.

At this point I don’t believe the griefers will stop, I don’t believe they have any grasp of ethical behavior. The fact that some of them act as if they are on some moral high ground is just laughable. SO I’ve said what i wanted to say, and you can take it or leave it. I’d invite you to actually join one of the teamspeaks and get involved in that community and judge for yourself instead of taking the word of someone who’s been questioned here as simply fact.

Somebody in your TS said they wanted to go to my house and “beat the **** out of me” last night. I’ve also had members of your guild spamming me with group invites, abuse and threats.

That’s why I’m “taking the moral high ground” – I’m doing nothing wrong, but you guys are breaking various rules repeatedly, just because someone is playing the game in a different way to you.

Azhure.1857:

Jerus, I understand your position. I do. But as I said in my last post, unicorngirl is not the only one that has come to these forums with complaints concerning this very issue. I’m not just taking one person’s side in this.

I’m glad your guild in particular has some standards… but not all groups/guilds do apparently.

Not my guild, I’m just one of the many people very happy that they do what they do and I feel it’s wrong to slander them when they are doing their best to get people gold if they are just willing to cooperate. They opened up a TS to the public and I’m putting it to use to get into maps and have fun

You know exactly what you’re doing. Taking the moral high ground? I think not.

unicorngirl.1487:

Jerus.4350:

No it’s very unfortunate that some individuals resort to verbal abuse. But don’t let a few people skew your view of an entire map. There are 75 people on a map, if 5 of them are being jerks that doesn’t in any way give someone the right to ruin things for the other 70 people.

The reporting I saw last night was on the wake of someone Named very well for this thread continually training groups with adds quite intentionally griefing. Normally I assume someone training adds is just someone being unaware of what they were doing, in which case I offer to teach them how to get to bosses without bringing adds. But in this case their name made it quite clear what their intentions were.

Hiding, it’s simply “i’m taking my ball and going home” for a round. Childish, maybe, but when you deal with uncooperative people sometimes walking away is your only civil option. Like I said before, I personally wish this were the good old school PVP where I could beat them into submission, but it’s not, so being civil is all that’s really left.

Again though, the guild in question has rules, if you tell people to alt f4, you’re treated the same as someone griefing and slapped with a TS ban if they can identify you, and put on their “do not taxi” list. They try to maintain a level of respect, but again there are 75 people per map, and no matter how much they wish people would just be civil with one another, there is no way to force that. They ask nicely for people to just be quiet, if someone does start speaking up in map chat the people actually leading it kindly ask them to be quiet in TS. But 50+ people on average is a lot of cats to herd, that’s why personally I’m so happy these folks are willing to do it, and why I’m thankful to them and feel it’s only fair that the other side of the story be said as well.

At this point I don’t believe the griefers will stop, I don’t believe they have any grasp of ethical behavior. The fact that some of them act as if they are on some moral high ground is just laughable. SO I’ve said what i wanted to say, and you can take it or leave it. I’d invite you to actually join one of the teamspeaks and get involved in that community and judge for yourself instead of taking the word of someone who’s been questioned here as simply fact.

Somebody in your TS said they wanted to go to my house and “beat the **** out of me” last night. I’ve also had members of your guild spamming me with group invites, abuse and threats.

That’s why I’m “taking the moral high ground” – I’m doing nothing wrong, but you guys are breaking various rules repeatedly, just because someone is playing the game in a different way to you.

So hypothetically, a person names their character in a way to obviously show their intention is to grief people. Then they continue to train adds into the groups trying to kill bosses. Would you call this simply “playing the game how they want to?” And, do you find that to be perfectly acceptable behavior?

And “you guys” I’m sorry, but I’m simply one of the many people trying to have some fun, i’m just thankful that these people are willing to take their time to organize us all to get the rewards we all want. I do not condone the types of actions you describe, nor did I take part in them. But I do find it quite wrong that someone would think that those actions make it ok to enact revenge not only on those individuals in question but on an entire map of 75 people. Talk about collateral damage.

There is a report feature for a reason, use it if you feel you have to. Personally I prefer the block feature as I’m not usually one to snitch, but some people go above and beyond to the point that they really do deserve a report, so I don’t blame anyone for using it, and personally I have a few times.

Since this thread has turned more into a personal argument than a constructive discussion, it is now closed.