Griefers...

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Maugrem.7608

Maugrem.7608

So there are characters out there who only come into instances to make everyone else’s play time miserable. I finally get a good pavillion group for gold runs and some guy comes into the instance and starts killing bosses when we are holding for burn. We have no recourse against these players, why? This seems so unfair to everyone else who are spending their time to coordinate these runs.

Can’t report because there are no functions to do so. Why Anet?

Maugrem Moorgraves Ex-Nimue Nightshade (DAoC- Roisin Dubh)
An Epic 80 in every flavor (Five Thousand Finishers)

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

You can for disruptive player behavior (aka griefing) however the forums are not the place to discuss this and you thread will get closed soon. Thank you.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Maugrem.7608

Maugrem.7608

I don’t see any option in reporting for disruptive player behavior….?

Maugrem Moorgraves Ex-Nimue Nightshade (DAoC- Roisin Dubh)
An Epic 80 in every flavor (Five Thousand Finishers)

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

I dont think thats the exact term, but there is an option to report for those sorts of things.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: StinVec.3621

StinVec.3621

These are the only in-game options for reporting. Others would need to be filed through support ticket with screenshots of character names, ‘account.1234’ names, chat logs, etc. Even then it would be quite difficult to verify it was griefing versus simply playing the game in a way that was different from others, despite consensus on how it should be or was intended to be played. Honestly, I do not think much can be done unless an anet employee was in the instance and witnessed it firsthand and deemed it as griefing.

Attachments:

| [“I’d really like this…” — Resource for Gifting Strangers] |
| [Free Ports For All “Not So Secret” JP Needs (and 1st Try Dive Tips)] |
| [Classic Thread: “all is vain”] |

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: justkoh.4073

justkoh.4073

Why should OP have any such recourse? I know it can be frustrating but this seems like a “others must play by my plan and rules” thing.

You can control it to some extent in dungeons and instances but in a ‘public’ place like the Crown Pavillion? I don’t think its meant to be.

If one person can cause such disruption, then its Anet’s poor design. If its a small group, then my first paragraph applies because collectively, they have a ‘say’ in how to proceed as well.

Overall, the truly successful run is one which is able to adjust to these players.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Guhracie.3419

Guhracie.3419

It is poor design. You can’t adjust to one guy who is killing off the bosses when they shouldn’t be killed. Have you even done Boss Blitz at all?

“Be angry about legendary weapons, sure, but what about the recent drought of content?”
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: justkoh.4073

justkoh.4073

It is poor design. You can’t adjust to one guy who is killing off the bosses when they shouldn’t be killed. Have you even done Boss Blitz at all?

I have. But since you’ve admitted its poor design, then does it make sense to to report someone over it?

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

There was a thread about a troll wvw commander, of course the thread got shut down, but it was shown that the rules prohibit disruptive game play. Now most of it applied to pvp and wvw, but I would think that the same would apply here. If it can be proven it was done on purpose,. Maybe the player was new to the blitz, and just saw bosses ready to die, so jumped in, or didnt understand english, due to mega server.

If op has chat logs and/or video proving this guy was griefing on purpose, then he might have a case. Otherwise, theres not much that can be done.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Fyrebrand.4859

Fyrebrand.4859

It’s unfortunate that this happens, but how do you know that the player even understood what they were doing? Maybe they were just uninformed, thought they were “helping,” didn’t read the map chat, or were just being stubborn and didn’t believe you. I think MMOs really need to stop turning a blind eye to griefing, trolls, and harassment, but it needs to be proven, and in this case it really sounds like it can’t be. You can’t report someone for being dumb or bad at the game.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

1. Why does he/she have to play the way you want him/her to play? By all mean those bosses event are meant to be for everyone. Everyone has the right to get a shot at it. You are griefing him by holding just as much as him killing it and not holding? Who are you to define how he should play?

2. If the ENTIRE coordinated group can’t take into account of one or even ten people attacking too much and look ahead and say “well they are going to keep attacking, we should stop at 20% and have them keep going”, then this claimed-to-be-coordinated group FAILS

3. You could do better by killing the other bosses faster by matching them accordingly. There have been groups that finished with 4:30 mins on the clock. No need to “hold” for burn.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ark Bladesteele.2943

Ark Bladesteele.2943

I’ve never actually seen a report result in anything. We’ve reported people in our BL this entire week, the same people, for exploiting, hacking (using “botting” as the choice, since exploiting isn’t an option). We’ve sent videos of it in action to exploits@ including account names, we’ve posted about it in the WvW forums but even talking about people exploiting results in the thread being deleted. No bug report I’ve ever filed ingame has ever resulted in any kind of response or fix. When I submit a ticket, I get a stock response with a different GM signing off on it to go post about it in the forums, and when I post about it in the forums, nothing ever happens. A critical bug affecting boon duration that I’ve tried to bring to the devs’ attention has yet to see a single dev response, and I don’t think they’ve even looked at any of my tickets or threads or ingame reports.

We had someone from YB exploit their way into citadel and build a trebuchet in the crafting areas to destroy a stockpile of omega golems we were stashing in the back. That was over 40 gold lost. It was reported by multiple people, recorded by multiple people, posted about by multiple people, and nothing ever happened.

I hope this post gives some clarity regarding the frustration I have with the support (or lack thereof) in this game. Read it while you can, because it will be deleted.

Now perhaps you can understand why I don’t even see the point anymore.

NSP’s resident crazy-eyed sylvari

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Allaraina.8614

Allaraina.8614

I’m finding that as I do BB a lot of people just don’t read map chat. Often people have it turned off altogether. That might be one reason.

In terms of being poor design…

I actually like BB but I think maybe in the future it could be executed better. Does anyone know if Claw of Jorlag can be pushed/trolled/unintentionally killed in this same way? Maybe it would help if either,

1. Anet designs more major encounters like Claw where it is difficult to do anything other than go with the group (this could have pros and cons).

2. Bring in more ways to communicate/coordinate in the game. I’m not saying put in a voice-client or anything like that, but maybe something could be brainstormed? I’ve run into a lot of players who simply didn’t know that they were being counter productive to what a group was trying to accomplish and were entirely nice about it when it was all explained. So maybe we just need more effective ways to get people’s attention and explain stuff?

My 18 characters are waiting for outfits from GW1 like Tuxedos! WE GOT DWAYNA! =D
http://asuratime.tumblr.com/

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: frans.8092

frans.8092

Normally you’re supposed to kill bosses, what’s so different here that they shouldn’t?

Btw, I frequently turn off /map chat in towns (and sometime only leave on /guild and related) when there’s too much /map-chat. And for combat you should be using /local or any of the team chat channels, not /map

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: shaquinna.2869

shaquinna.2869

And this is what happens when Anet creates events that need map coörperation.

You’ll always have people who will try and make the most out of those events. And why not? Why would people settle for bronze if there is a possibility to obtain an even better reward? It only needs full MAP (not just a team, the whole map) to be able to do this. The OP is just one of the situations I’ve seen. (Not to mention Tequatle etc..)

It also needs those who do not speak English (or have the language filter off), those with map chat turned off and are not in any team, those who are AFK’ing near a boss and those who simply don’t care and just want to complete the event / kill the bosses no matter what the reward will be. And ofcourse trolls.

I don’t think any of those players are wrong. It’s not those players who force eachother it’s Anet who forces everyone to play together. They force people who want to do these events casually to play with those who want reach gold. And they force players who want to reach gold to play with people who want to do it casually. With all the flaming, annoyances and frustration as a result.

“Well if you want an organized map go find a different mega-server!”
“Well if you want to play casually leave this mega-server!”

Evanny
[EU] Piken Square
Representing: ‘The Only One’ [One]

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Guhracie.3419

Guhracie.3419

1. Why does he/she have to play the way you want him/her to play? By all mean those bosses event are meant to be for everyone. Everyone has the right to get a shot at it. You are griefing him by holding just as much as him killing it and not holding? Who are you to define how he should play?

2. If the ENTIRE coordinated group can’t take into account of one or even ten people attacking too much and look ahead and say “well they are going to keep attacking, we should stop at 20% and have them keep going”, then this claimed-to-be-coordinated group FAILS

3. You could do better by killing the other bosses faster by matching them accordingly. There have been groups that finished with 4:30 mins on the clock. No need to “hold” for burn.

You don’t understand how the boss blitz works if you think anyone is being griefed because they’re “holding” the boss for burn. Some groups get bosses down faster than others, for a variety of reasons related to group makeup. So if Sparcus is at 80% and Kuraii is at 10%, nobody is griefing “that guy” by saying, "Hey, stop dps on Kuraii until Sparcus is lower, and don’t run to each boss and kill them, or Boom-Boom will take forever to get down and we’ll get worse rewards. Everyone, including “that guy,” is getting worse rewards because he is not playing the strategy.

Yes, ideally all the bosses will burn down at the same time with four or so minutes to spare. But it’s pretty obvious that many instances of the Pavilion are far from ideal. And if the boss is scaled right, all it takes is one or two people attacking and that 20% melts away. To say that a random PUG of 70 people should be able to make allowances for ten people who don’t care or don’t bother to pay attention is really not true.

This level of strategy is not suited for open-world. You can tell because ideal runs happen most often in instances populated by coordinated guilds or groups of guilds. Ideal runs happen when people force it to become essentially a private raid.

Why should so few people be able to so effectively ruin an event for so many? A festival event, no less. It doesn’t make sense, and it’s bad.

“Be angry about legendary weapons, sure, but what about the recent drought of content?”
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: projectcedric.6951

projectcedric.6951

Just report them for “Selling Gold”.

If enough people do this, Anet might actually look at the issue of players selling/getting hacked to sell good.

Doesn’t solve your problem, but… wouldn’t you be happy to have helped solve another? =p

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Taygus.4571

Taygus.4571

Just report them for “Selling Gold”.

If enough people do this, Anet might actually look at the issue of players selling/getting hacked to sell good.

Doesn’t solve your problem, but… wouldn’t you be happy to have helped solve another? =p

you can get yourself banned for that.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Nick.6972

Nick.6972

Here’s the result for “Play the way you want”.
These things should have been instanced.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

This is all down to Anet and their bad design.

They made a big mistake by not going down the raid/instanced route for larger scale content which requires organization, but alas there is zero chance of them admitting that mistake.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Feirlista Xv.1425

Feirlista Xv.1425

Was the guy actually griefing or just playing the game just because he was killing bosses doesn’t mean he was intentionally playing the game in a manner that was against the rules if you all turned an event into a gold farm then someone come along and does something that hinders that because they are just playing. This is why a lot of the gold farms have been nurfed in this game for just this reason. Don’t know what to tell you guys, this may not have been griefing and there for NOT reportable.

Opinions are like ______ everyone has one I could
put the correct term in but not everyone has kittens

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

It is poor design. You can’t adjust to one guy who is killing off the bosses when they shouldn’t be killed. Have you even done Boss Blitz at all?

It isn’t poor design. It’s designed so people can play any way they choose.

There also isn’t a way bosses should or shouldn’t be killed. Yes I have done the pavilion a lot. I also know the most effective ways to make sure gold is achieved the fastest way possible.

That being said, any player can choose to play however they like. I may not like the way he/she is going about it, but I have no right to tell that player how to play.

Your way, my way, or anyone else’s way of playing is subjective and personal. There is no right or wrong. And certainly you do not get to decide what is right for other people.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Rebound.3409

Rebound.3409

So there are characters out there who only come into instances to make everyone else’s play time miserable. I finally get a good pavillion group for gold runs and some guy comes into the instance and starts killing bosses when we are holding for burn. We have no recourse against these players, why? This seems so unfair to everyone else who are spending their time to coordinate these runs.

Can’t report because there are no functions to do so. Why Anet?

Sooo…u want to grief griefers

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

It isn’t poor design. It’s designed so people can play any way they choose.

There also isn’t a way bosses should or shouldn’t be killed. Yes I have done the pavilion a lot. I also know the most effective ways to make sure gold is achieved the fastest way possible.

That being said, any player can choose to play however they like. I may not like the way he/she is going about it, but I have no right to tell that player how to play.

Your way, my way, or anyone else’s way of playing is subjective and personal. There is no right or wrong. And certainly you do not get to decide what is right for other people.

Except it is poor design because you often have some random running around like a loon mucking it up for people trying to organise, whilst hiding behind the “play how I wantz!” mantra.

Good design would see this kind of stuff in a raid/instanced format (or the very least offer that option as well) in which you can group with like minded players. Want to do it in an organised manner? Group with like minded people and run the content. Want to run about and “play how I want!”, group with like minded players and run the content.

Moreover whacking stuff like this in the open world means Anet has to dumb it down as you have to take into account all kinds of player ability and organization levels as well as people running not very good builds. By adding content in the form of raids/instances more challenging/interesting larger scale content could be added as well as the usual faceroll fests.

Allow the option for people just to jump in a random map and go at it (like it is now) and add the option for organized groups to run their own, closed instance.

(edited by Fenrir.3609)

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: calyx.9086

calyx.9086

And this is one of the many reasons I don’t participate in crappy open world content that any random pug can participate in. Once I get my achievements, it’s back to my guaranteed excellent gold/hour in dungeons.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

It isn’t poor design. It’s designed so people can play any way they choose.

There also isn’t a way bosses should or shouldn’t be killed. Yes I have done the pavilion a lot. I also know the most effective ways to make sure gold is achieved the fastest way possible.

That being said, any player can choose to play however they like. I may not like the way he/she is going about it, but I have no right to tell that player how to play.

Your way, my way, or anyone else’s way of playing is subjective and personal. There is no right or wrong. And certainly you do not get to decide what is right for other people.

Except it is poor design because you often have some random running around like a loon mucking it up for people trying to organise, whilst hiding behind the “play how I wantz!” mantra.

Good design would see this kind of stuff in a raid/instanced format (or the very least offer that option as well) in which you can group with like minded players. Want to do it in an organised manner? Group with like minded people and run the content. Want to run about and “play how I want!!!!”, group with like minded players and run the content.

Moreover whacking stuff like this in the open world means Anet has to dumb it down as you have to take into account all kinds of player ability and organization levels as well as people running not very good builds. By adding content in the form of raids/instances more challenging/interesting larger scale content could be added as well as the usual faceroll fests.

Allow the option for people just to jump in a random map and go at it (like it is now) and add the option for organized groups to run their own, closed instance.

Again, it isn’t poor design because it isn’t how you think it should be. Also “not very good builds” is a matter of opinion.

I think raid/instanced content wouldn’t be bad, but it isn’t how this game is designed. I think it tells a lot about how good players are when they are forced to work around these “do what they want” players.

So you don’t like when players run around doing things their way or how they want? I know a couple of those types of players that think that all these “organized” ways of handling things are boring. They think the people that follow along in them are sheep.

So again, I say it isn’t bad design. It just is what it is. How a person deals with the design they have been given is a true test of good or bad.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

Again, it isn’t poor design because it isn’t how you think it should be. Also “not very good builds” is a matter of opinion.

I’d suggest it’s bad design because it is bad design, not because of my opinions on the matter. Trying to shoehorn content which requires organization into an arena in which it is prone to be spoiled is clearly pretty poor design, especially when no alternative private raid/instance is offered.

Whether a build is not very good or not has nothing to do with opinion when it comes to efficiency etc. That is not to say people using non meta builds are bad, far from it.

I think raid/instanced content wouldn’t be bad, but it isn’t how this game is designed. I think it tells a lot about how good players are when they are forced to work around these “do what they want” players.

It’s not how the game is designed, you are right. That though does not mean that said design is not bad or that raid content should not be added. I doubt it will personally but there we go.

“Forcing” good players to work around “do what they wants” is not a good thing. “Oh look, let’s make these organized groups deal a load of people throwing a spanner in the works, that will teach them!” in some odd notion of testing them is a bit odd.

So you don’t like when players run around doing things their way or how they want? I know a couple of those types of players that think that all these “organized” ways of handling things are boring. They think the people that follow along in them are sheep.

I have never at any point said that people should not be able to do things “how they want”. I have simply stated that those people who want to organize should be able to group with like minded players and partake in the content in private raid/instances.

I’m all for bearbows and cleric wearing staff spamming guards running around in dungeons for example. Go for it I say, all power to them, as long as I am not forced to group with them when they do it. Now if larger scale pve content is going down the more challenging/organized route, then it needs to offer the same instanced/raid options as dungeons do.

So again, I say it isn’t bad design. It just is what it is. How a person deals with the design they have been given is a true test of good or bad.

Again, it’s bad design and again the idea that you “test” good players with bad design is an odd one.

(edited by Fenrir.3609)

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

I’d suggest it’s bad design because it is bad design, not because of my opinions on the matter. Trying to shoehorn content which requires organization into an arena in which it is prone to be spoiled is clearly pretty poor design, especially when no alternative private raid/instance is offered.

Whether a build is not very good or not has nothing to do with opinion when it comes to efficiency etc. That is not to say people using non meta builds are bad, far from it.

“It’s bad design because it is bad design” is like saying “I am right because I want to be right.” I don’t think it is bad design at all. So therefore, it is an opinion not a fact. I am sure many would agree with you, but I know plenty that would agree with me as well.

Also a build isn’t necessarily good because it is efficient. Many players choose skills that others may not simply because they enjoy what the skill does or because it fits in with their role playing, or it fits their personal play style. It doesn’t make their builds bad because they may not be as efficient as you would like them to be. To many going to a movie or playing an online game is not an efficient use of a person’s time, but then again, that is an opinion not a fact.

It’s not how the game is designed, you are right. That though does not mean that said design is not bad or that raid content should not be added. I doubt it will personally but there we go.

“Forcing” good players to work around “do what they wants” is not a good thing. “Oh look, let’s make these organized groups deal a load of people throwing a spanner in the works, that will teach them!” in some odd notion of testing them is a bit odd.

I hardly doubt that ANet’s motivation was: “Oh look, let’s make these organized groups deal a load of people throwing a spanner in the works, that will teach them!” More like, “Here is the content. Let’s see as a whole how they pull it off.”

And it isn’t odd having to deal with independent, odd, and difficult people. That is life in the real world and in open world content on any MMO.

And I get it. You want raid content. That does not mean that everyone wants or cares about it. I don’t care either way. Obviously, at least right now, neither does ANet. I’m content to deal with things the way they are until something changes, then I will deal with it the new way. It doesn’t mean I don’t think you should voice your wants and opinions, but I also do not consider it bad design because it isn’t set up the way you would like to have it.

I have never at any point said that people should not be able to do things “how they want”. I have simply stated that those people who want to organize should be able to group with like minded players and partake in the content in private raid/instances.

I’m all for bearbows and cleric wearing staff spamming guards running around in dungeons for example. Go for it I say, all power to them, as long as I am not forced to group with them when they do it. Now if larger scale pve content is going down the more challenging/organized route, then it needs to offer the same instanced/raid options as dungeons do.

Again, Open World Content. Personal Story, Fractals and Dungeons are not open world content. Everything else is. That is the way the game is designed. It is the environment which the game is intended to be played. The game isn’t, and in my opinion shouldn’t be, designed to be able to choose instances/raids whenever we want to. Defeats the open world concept.

Again, it’s bad design and again the idea that you “test” good players with bad design is an odd one.

And again, I will say it being a “bad design” is your opinion not a fact. If it were a fact, everyone would feel the same and not everyone does.

Also, who are and who are not “good players” is also an opinion. You are “forced” to play with those you consider not good because it is an open world concept. It was not a secret going into the game and has been that way for two years. After two years, I think everyone would get that by now.

Lastly, I don’t believe that they are “testing” anyone with bad design. Again, that may be the way you see it, but it is only another opinion.

(edited by jheryn.8390)

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Maugrem.7608

Maugrem.7608

Was the guy actually griefing or just playing the game just because he was killing bosses doesn’t mean he was intentionally playing the game in a manner that was against the rules if you all turned an event into a gold farm then someone come along and does something that hinders that because they are just playing. This is why a lot of the gold farms have been nurfed in this game for just this reason. Don’t know what to tell you guys, this may not have been griefing and there for NOT reportable.

Yeah this guy was intentionally griefing and taunting the instance. He would intentionally drag mobs onto groups and try to purposely make the encounters fail to silver. When he was blocked by the entire instance he stood in the middle emoting and taunting us there. This is not working as intended. One person ruining an event for 70 others…it’s kind of ridiculous.

Maugrem Moorgraves Ex-Nimue Nightshade (DAoC- Roisin Dubh)
An Epic 80 in every flavor (Five Thousand Finishers)

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

You don’t understand how the boss blitz works if you think anyone is being griefed because they’re “holding” the boss for burn. Some groups get bosses down faster than others, for a variety of reasons related to group makeup. So if Sparcus is at 80% and Kuraii is at 10%, nobody is griefing “that guy” by saying, "Hey, stop dps on Kuraii until Sparcus is lower, and don’t run to each boss and kill them, or Boom-Boom will take forever to get down and we’ll get worse rewards. Everyone, including “that guy,” is getting worse rewards because he is not playing the strategy.

I understand perfectly how boss blitz works having led several boss groups to 20-30 gold runs every night for the last three weeks with consistent 2:00+ on the clock on most night as well as having 3:30+ on the clock on the best night.

In your example, if Kuraii is already 10% and Sparc still at 80%. If you know there are random pugs who would keep attacking you should have stopped Kuraii at 50% then send some people to speed up Sparc. If you can’t do that then you’re not as organized and you don’t deserve a gold chest.

It is meant for extremely organized group and if you’re not an organized group then gold reward isn’t for that group, just like the Evolved Jungle Wurm. And guess what? a silver or a even a bronze isn’t that bad.

Yes, ideally all the bosses will burn down at the same time with four or so minutes to spare. But it’s pretty obvious that many instances of the Pavilion are far from ideal. And if the boss is scaled right, all it takes is one or two people attacking and that 20% melts away. To say that a random PUG of 70 people should be able to make allowances for ten people who don’t care or don’t bother to pay attention is really not true.

The 10 people shouldn’t be to make allowance for the 70 grumpy people to get a gold reward either. If they can’t take it and get a silver/bronze then they need to take a break and chill. The 10 people are not breaking any rule. They are playing contents as it is designed to be played, i.e., kill the bosses as fast as possible (within their capability).

In a sense telling them to hold and kill the bosses at the same time can be considered as an exploit because you essentially stop the bosses from giving each other’s their power by giving them practically no time – but this is just one way to look at things – not my personal opinion.

This level of strategy is not suited for open-world. You can tell because ideal runs happen most often in instances populated by coordinated guilds or groups of guilds. Ideal runs happen when people force it to become essentially a private raid.

Yup All of the runs I’ve been with have Teamspeak coordination. Granted there are pugs who sometimes killed bosses sooner. And yes I’ve taken about 122 silvers and 64 bronzes out of the 1394 runs I’ve done, but most of the time we managed.

Why should so few people be able to so effectively ruin an event for so many? A festival event, no less. It doesn’t make sense, and it’s bad.

Maybe sit back and enjoy a few silver/ bronzes instead of freaking out “OMFGYUNOOOB Killing BOOSSS EARLY”? It’s a festival, chill

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

“It’s bad design because it is bad design” is like saying “I am right because I want to be right.” I don’t think it is bad design at all. So therefore, it is an opinion not a fact. I am sure many would agree with you, but I know plenty that would agree with me as well.

Placing content which requires organization within an environment where you are unlikely to see the required organization or where organization is easily hampered is bad design. Whichever way you look at it. But yes, that is ofc my opinion.

Also a build isn’t necessarily good because it is efficient. Many players choose skills that others may not simply because they enjoy what the skill does or because it fits in with their role playing, or it fits their personal play style. It doesn’t make their builds bad because they may not be as efficient as you would like them to be.

Except a build is indeed “good” if it is optimal/efficient for the content you are using it for and there are indeed “bad” builds dependant upon the content you are doing.

I’m not sure why you are seemingly white knighting so much here (I mean that with no offense intended), there are indeed “bad” builds for specific content and no amount of “but they might like it for RP” will change that fact.

I hardly doubt that ANet’s motivation was: “Oh look, let’s make these organized groups deal a load of people throwing a spanner in the works, that will teach them!” More like, “Here is the content. Let’s see as a whole how they pull it off.”

It is pulled off by carrying people and/or by quite often trying to kick/boot or otherwise remove them from the map all the while causing grief.

And it isn’t odd having to deal with independent, odd, and difficult people. That is life in the real world and in open world content on any MMO.

Great, lets make dungeons and fractals totally random as well then, so you have zero choice who you group with. I am all for having the option to elect to simply go and do the content with random people, but there should also be the option of doing “more challenging” content within the remit of a private instance with a premade.

And I get it. You want raid content. That does not mean that everyone wants or cares about it. I don’t care either way. Obviously, at least right now, neither does ANet. I’m content to deal with things the way they are until something changes, then I will deal with it the new way. It doesn’t mean I don’t think you should voice your wants and opinions, but I also do not consider it bad design because it isn’t set up the way you would like to have it.

Whilst I think it is bad design, I honestly couldn’t care less about raids. When I do open world content I just get on with it and help as much as I can. I just find this whole approach (trying to shoehorn “harder” content into it) to be a bad one.

Again, Open World Content. Personal Story, Fractals and Dungeons are not open world content. Everything else is. That is the way the game is designed. It is the environment which the game is intended to be played. The game isn’t, and in my opinion shouldn’t be, designed to be able to choose instances/raids whenever we want to. Defeats the open world concept.

One of the reasons dungeons and fractals are instanced due to the fact it allows you to promote challenging content. Now if you are going to try and make larger scale “challenging” content then it should follow the remit of raids/instances, otherwise you set yourself up for problems.

I’m also not advocating making all open world content instanced, far from it. Merely that the tiny fraction of it that is challenging be made available via an optional raid format. That way we can see increased difficulty and keep both aspects of the community happy.

And again, I will say it being a “bad design” is your opinion not a fact. If it were a fact, everyone would feel the same and not everyone does.

Even if something is a fact, not everyone here would agree on it in fairness. Instead of just saying “it’s your opinion” how about you explain why you think trying to shoehorn difficult content into an open world remit within a game which does little to nothing to promote “skilled” play is a good idea?

Also, who are and who are not “good players” is also an opinion. You are “forced” to play with those you consider not good because it is an open world concept. It was not a secret going into the game and has been that way for two years. After two years, I think everyone would get that by now.

The move to include “harder” open world content is relatively new to the game.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: kratan.4619

kratan.4619

No to any more instanced content please. Instances lead to elitism and exclusion, all you have to do is look at the posts about dungeon groups demanding x build or y class only. The people who casually play this game should not be excluded from an organized festival event just because there “may” be a person or handful of people who are going to intentionally grief their event.

I enjoy logging in and finding an organized event, pavilion, Teq, etc. occurring that I can join and would be greatly saddened if all the organized events ended up being just instanced “raids”. Not all of us play every day or have a stable enough schedule to plan for a time to join a scheduled instanced raid.

Personally I have not seen any intentional griefers in the pavilion up to this point.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

Except a build is indeed “good” if it is optimal/efficient for the content you are using it for and there are indeed “bad” builds dependant upon the content you are doing.

I’m not sure why you are seemingly white knighting so much here (I mean that with no offense intended), there are indeed “bad” builds for specific content and no amount of “but they might like it for RP” will change that fact.

I’m only “white knighting” because not everyone that reads the forums agrees with your opinions of what is good or bad or “correct play”. I would probably agree with you on what builds we would use in different situations. Not everyone would. I have friends that use builds and equipment that I would not use for myself. I don’t think any of them or many others reading this thread would like you telling them their builds are not good. If their builds are good for them, who are you to tell them differently? It’s called sensitivity not “white knighting”.

I hardly doubt that ANet’s motivation was: “Oh look, let’s make these organized groups deal a load of people throwing a spanner in the works, that will teach them!” More like, “Here is the content. Let’s see as a whole how they pull it off.”

It is pulled off by carrying people and/or by quite often trying to kick/boot or otherwise remove them from the map all the while causing grief.

I get the griefers who are just being jerks, but there are a lot of players that are either new to content or don’t really know what to do that run around doing the best they can. They have to learn somewhere. They are not griefers. Calling them not good or being jerks to them because they don’t play like you think they should is just wrong. Teach them how or let them learn. There are too many that want to learn how to do content and if they are not with experienced people, how are they to learn?

I have seen many people treated so poorly in the pavilion that they leave. They didn’t deserve that treatment. They aren’t griefers and they certainly don’t deserve to leave gameplay because they don’t stand up to someone’s criteria. Of course, there are griefers, but you make it sound like anyone who doesn’t meet your standards should be kicked too. Not good.

Great, lets make dungeons and fractals totally random as well then, so you have zero choice who you group with. I am all for having the option to elect to simply go and do the content with random people, but there should also be the option of doing “more challenging” content within the remit of a private instance with a premade.

Dungeons and Fractals are limited to 5 people. The pavilion has a scale of 15 to 20 times that. Hardly something you can party up for. Not only that, anyone seen as new or not up to standards which you seem to want would be excluded. Again, not good.

I’m also not advocating making all open world content instanced, far from it. Merely that the tiny fraction of it that is challenging be made available via an optional raid format. That way we can see increased difficulty and keep both aspects of the community happy.

Well keeping both sides of the community happy by doing that would not happen. You would have all the really hard core and experienced players sticking together and excluding anyone they deemed not worthy. Players that didn’t meet those standards would feel left out and picked on. How would this make everyone happy? The experienced players would be happy. Everyone else would be angry and rightfully so.

I truly think it is great if you want raids. Keep suggesting it. Maybe it will happen.

Even if something is a fact, not everyone here would agree on it in fairness. Instead of just saying “it’s your opinion” how about you explain why you think trying to shoehorn difficult content into an open world remit within a game which does little to nothing to promote “skilled” play is a good idea?

I believe I already did that. I said effectively that I find it challenging to get the optimal goal with the players that you have on hand. Good or not so. I think everyone should have the chance to play with more experienced players in order to learn. I also think it is good the way it is because elitist players can’t exclude people in large format challenges that do not live up to their standards.

The move to include “harder” open world content is relatively new to the game.

Yes it is. But it is still open world content.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Boneheart.3561

Boneheart.3561

If they’ve compromised and ultimately caused the failure of a Gold Blitz, I file it under Scamming. If they don’t respond to Say or a Whisper, I’ll send another report of Botting.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

Can’t report because there are no functions to do so. Why Anet?

Because “griefer” isn’t always black and white. They are in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. If there were a function to report for this you would see Anet flooded with reports on people – most of which did nothing wrong other than to annoy the wrong person or people.

  • High likelihood of abuse
  • Massive flood of new reports = increased workload
Isle of Janthir Megaserver

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

Ive done CP, and seen first had people just ignoring, the “How Too” instructions. when people start to do that, all we did was just let the boss kill them, then not revive them.

i5 4690K @ 3.5Mhz|8GB HyperX Savage 1600mHz|MSI H81M-E34|MSI GTX 960 Gaming 2GB|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

I’m only “white knighting” because…

I’m sure someone who loves 0/0/6/2/6 hambow could spend ages saying how much he loves that build. It is still bad for dungeon speed runs though and whether they appreciate me telling them that or not is of little consequence.

There are good builds for x content and there are bad builds for x content, no amount of white knighting or “sensitivity” will change that fact.

I might really, really love 6/6/0/2/0 full glass zerk warrior, that doesn’t mean it is not a shockingly bad build to run if I was asked to bunker down in an spvp match. I could be the best player in the world with it, it is still a bad build to use in that remit. Just as facetanks and bearbows are for speedrunning dungeons etc.

The simple fact of the matter is a large number of players gear/build badly for the content they are doing. Fair play to them, they enjoy it, they don’t care, they have fun and they get on with it. All power to them and I would hate for them to be forced to change that. But that is the reality of the situation, there are demonstrably bad builds.

I get the griefers who are just being jerks….how are they to learn?

People would still be able to do the content and still be able to learn if the 0.00001% of the “challenging” open world content had an additional private instance option. 90% of the time (everyone loves made up statistics) i’d be in there in the “open world” helping them as would most “elitists”.

I have seen many people treated so poorly.. Not good.

You are warping the argument here. Not good. I have said people are getting kicked/griefed because the system is bad, not because they should. Which points to me being correct in the first place (a world first lol!). The system is bad because it leads to this. A good system would see people being able to do the content as and when they want (as it is now) and also allow organized teams to do it in private instances.

Dungeons and Fractals are limited to 5 people. The pavilion has a scale of 15 to 20 times that. Hardly something you can party up for. Not only that, anyone seen as new or not up to standards which you seem to want would be excluded. Again, not good.

A dungeon can quite easily have more than 5, i.e. it can be a raid.

As for excluded, in what sense? They would not be excluded from the content, they would though be excluded from my group from time to time. So what?

Well keeping both sides of the community happy.. The experienced players would be happy. Everyone else would be angry and rightfully so.

They would be able to do the content, if they can’t learn to organise and overcome the content in time, well why should they expect to be carried exactly?

I truly think it is great if you want raids. Keep suggesting it. Maybe it will happen.

It won’t happen, it flies in the face of what Anet have set up for the game.

I believe I already did that. I said effectively that I find it challenging to get the optimal goal with the players that you have on hand. Good or not so. I think everyone should have the chance to play with more experienced players in order to learn. I also think it is good the way it is because elitist players can’t exclude people in large format challenges that do not live up to their standards.

The option to lead, teach and otherwise help players should be exactly that, an option. I enjoy doing it, but I don’t think it should be something thrust on you every time you want to do some content.

Wanting to have the option to run content from time to time with other experienced players is not “elitist” nor is it bad.

Yes it is. But it is still open world content.

And it is still the wrong format to be adding in “challenging” content as is.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Duke Nukem.6783

Duke Nukem.6783

sorry but this thread is kinda pointless, putting up with people who dont wana do things your way is part of life, and i have doubts that he was intentionaly “trolling” you or w/e its called these days. people have a tendancy to apply malicious intent to anything they dont like

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Scientia.8924

Scientia.8924

This reminds me of the commander in Edge of the Mists who kept leading the team straight to BL and FR zergs so they could kill us for easy loot bags.

Sure it can be annoying but unless you’re completely mindless, the solution is simple. No one is forcing you to follow zerg, in fact champs there can be taken down with very small groups and we do it all the time as a guild.

There are dozens of other ways for you to quickly farm gold in this game, don’t kitten yourself on just one.

What if HoT turns out to be the Mordrem Invasion event, x100?

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Guhracie.3419

Guhracie.3419

This reminds me of the commander in Edge of the Mists who kept leading the team straight to BL and FR zergs so they could kill us for easy loot bags.

Sure it can be annoying but unless you’re completely mindless, the solution is simple. No one is forcing you to follow zerg, in fact champs there can be taken down with very small groups and we do it all the time as a guild.

There are dozens of other ways for you to quickly farm gold in this game, don’t kitten yourself on just one.

It’s responses like this that make me not want to bother with the forum at all. This thread has nothing to do with wanting to follow a zerg. This has to do with badly designed content that is easily made not fun by only a few people because of the “play how you want” mindset.

When there’s strategy involved, “play how you want” doesn’t benefit the group, and that is why this sort of content should either be instanced in the first place or not contingent on the entire map following one strategy. Anet, you are supposed to be game designers, here. How is it that I know more about game design than you do?

“Be angry about legendary weapons, sure, but what about the recent drought of content?”
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Scientia.8924

Scientia.8924

No one is forcing you to read this forum, leave if you can’t handle it. Also, reread the post if you missed the point of it.

Anyway we’ll never be able to prove the guy was a griefer, and I doubt he’ll ever be punished. If it’s a public instance, prepare to deal with conditions that are out of your control.

What if HoT turns out to be the Mordrem Invasion event, x100?

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Amnariel.3659

Amnariel.3659

Sometimes I wish for a Friendly Fire option :-D

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Sometimes I wish for a Friendly Fire option :-D

I miss my real oldschool EQ PVP days. Find someone, kill them, find their spawn, camp it, and each kill you got to take a piece of gear from them. Ohh it was so glorious. Be a jerk, and people would turn on you quite quickly.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: unicorngirl.1487

unicorngirl.1487

Most of you will be aware that certain guilds organize to run gold boss blitz events. You may also be aware that people can be “taxied” into a map by their friends, or by random players who may charge for the privilege.
This is where things started to go wrong. Certain guilds are attempting to drive players out of maps in order to get all of their friends in. They do this in several ways:
Firstly, they’ll let the event fail deliberately. They’ll do this by suddenly disappearing from the bosses, making sure several groups suddenly don’t have enough coverage.
Then they’ll stand in certain parts of the map (e.g on top of the burning tower by Sparcus or the pirate ship where Wiggin spawns). This serves two purposes: it hides them from the view of most people, who think they’ve left. It also upscales the boss they’re standing above.
If people stay in the map, the offenders will then troll mapchat, either by lying “hell with this im leaving” or being offensive to those who remain.
As a last resort, they’ll try to get everybody to REPORT innocent players who just happen to be in their map. The level of abuse rises (I witnessed some really nasty stuff directed at people who were just minding their own business) in an attempt to drive away those “evil PUGs”.
I can’t print some of the things they’ve said here. Obviously I’ve reported these people in the game, but I wanted to make sure the community is aware of this in general.
I’ve already had 4 separate people whispering me telling me they’re quitting the game because of the abuse levelled at them by one particular guild employing these tactics. I’m sure they aren’t the only ones. And for what? So they can farm a (somewhat easy, let’s be honest) open world zone in which all players are supposedly welcome?
If Anet didn’t want “uplevels” to go to the Crown Pavilion, they wouldn’t have scaled people to 80. If Anet wanted guilds to monopolize CP instances, they would have created guild instances, or a similar function.
I just hope more people don’t leave over this, and I hope that these guilds are held accountable for their actions.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Maugrem.7608

Maugrem.7608

^^And the troll appears

Maugrem Moorgraves Ex-Nimue Nightshade (DAoC- Roisin Dubh)
An Epic 80 in every flavor (Five Thousand Finishers)

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

How is unicorngirl a troll?

Isle of Janthir Megaserver

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Most of you will be aware that certain guilds organize to run gold boss blitz events. You may also be aware that people can be “taxied” into a map by their friends, or by random players who may charge for the privilege.
This is where things started to go wrong. Certain guilds are attempting to drive players out of maps in order to get all of their friends in. They do this in several ways:
Firstly, they’ll let the event fail deliberately. They’ll do this by suddenly disappearing from the bosses, making sure several groups suddenly don’t have enough coverage.
Then they’ll stand in certain parts of the map (e.g on top of the burning tower by Sparcus or the pirate ship where Wiggin spawns). This serves two purposes: it hides them from the view of most people, who think they’ve left. It also upscales the boss they’re standing above.
If people stay in the map, the offenders will then troll mapchat, either by lying “hell with this im leaving” or being offensive to those who remain.
As a last resort, they’ll try to get everybody to REPORT innocent players who just happen to be in their map. The level of abuse rises (I witnessed some really nasty stuff directed at people who were just minding their own business) in an attempt to drive away those “evil PUGs”.
I can’t print some of the things they’ve said here. Obviously I’ve reported these people in the game, but I wanted to make sure the community is aware of this in general.
I’ve already had 4 separate people whispering me telling me they’re quitting the game because of the abuse levelled at them by one particular guild employing these tactics. I’m sure they aren’t the only ones. And for what? So they can farm a (somewhat easy, let’s be honest) open world zone in which all players are supposedly welcome?
If Anet didn’t want “uplevels” to go to the Crown Pavilion, they wouldn’t have scaled people to 80. If Anet wanted guilds to monopolize CP instances, they would have created guild instances, or a similar function.
I just hope more people don’t leave over this, and I hope that these guilds are held accountable for their actions.

I recognize this username, I was doing boss blitz with you tonight, hiya.

Some of these guilds do post their teamspeak information and encourage people to join. I believe I know the guild you have in mind, and while I’m not an active member I do join their TS and get into the maps with them quite often.

The tactics you seem to think are bad are there to maintain organization, hopping in TS for a second to check if a purge is happening or if it’s actually dead is all it takes to know what’s going on. They do these things because eventually there are a ton of people zoning out after running it for hours and they all slowly move to pyro/wiggins to get credit while tabbing out and doing other things most of the time. It sounds like you have done quite a bit of the CP events so I’m sure you’ve seen this same thing.

It’s unfortunate that some individuals feel that a few bad apples being jerks warrants greifing entire maps though. As if all 74 of the other people have done something to deserve it.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Maugrem.7608

Maugrem.7608

How is unicorngirl a troll?

This user is the person that was trolling our instance and following us to new instances with the expressed purpose of making us fail our gold runs. The group ended up disbanding after 5 or 6 attempts. Using a Warrior by the name of The Greefer in a fake TTS guild tag.

Before the user denies it I already sent screenshots of map chat and global emotes to Anet so let’s see what happens.

Maugrem Moorgraves Ex-Nimue Nightshade (DAoC- Roisin Dubh)
An Epic 80 in every flavor (Five Thousand Finishers)

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

Pretty much anyone defending the trolling in the Pavilion, are those that are perpetrate such actions. Any place you find players having lighthearted fun and earning gold, they’ll be these spiteful and envious individuals trying to destroy it.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

Griefers...

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: frans.8092

frans.8092

The tactics you seem to think are bad are there to maintain organization,

Sorry, if it’s going on as described by her, they are bad, very bad.