"Griefing" steam champ at the reactor

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Why do some players do the Steam Champ at the Thaumanova Reactor just before the Fire Elemental so it’s locked for players wanting to do it after? And then brag about it? Players get the matrix cube key, charge it up wait for FE to finish and all interested participants to gather, put in the key and find out it’s locked out because it was run within the last 30 minutes. Usually after trying it and finding it’s not working someone chimes in on map that they had just run it to screw over everyone else.

This is starting to become annoyingly frequent. “Traditionally” it’s saved until after FE so everyone picks up more loot but since it looks like it can be locked out if done before FE when few will notice the barrier down. Why grief, if you can call it that? Why?

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

People grief because they want to annoy other people. You complaining about it on the forums is music to their ears.

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Posted by: penelopehannibal.8947

penelopehannibal.8947

sighs This is the Queensdale Champ Train all over again.

People are entitled to kill a champ if the game lets them. That part is not griefing. If they afterwards start to abuse people in map chat, then report them for that, but killing a champ that you are allowed to kill is not griefing.

You may pwn the champs, but you don’t own the champs.

Blood & Merlot [Wine]

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Posted by: Lil Puppy.5216

Lil Puppy.5216

For the record, it resets 10 minutes after exiting the platform which will kick you out after like 30 seconds after killing the champ if you don’t jump.

It would also be nice if everyone that had a key waited for about 20 seconds for the group to get there to open it so the champ scales properly and so everyone can get the loot (if you’re going to be part of the zerg, then wait for the zerg).

Anyway, I haven’t encountered anyone who bragged about locking others out, there have been occasions where someone had a charged key and thought they could do it before and after but the after part happened within the 10 minute reset period and it locked all of us out.

Before the schedule rework you could get to FE about 12 minutes ahead of spawn time so you could reliably do a before and after but with the current schedule it can’t be done reliably so we don’t.

If someone is doing it on purpose then just report them as something (dunno what categories are available). But there’s no way to avoid that scenario since it has a lockout period or as we affectionately call it these days: “Time Gating”

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Posted by: Vol.7601

Vol.7601

Why is this considered griefing? There is no rule that this must be done after FE. If someone has a key and wants to do it beforehand, then that’s their choice.

If that player goes out on map chat and mocks everyone, then sure he’s an kitten, but that’s because he’s mocking people and not because he chose to do content at a separate time for the rest. That doesn’t mean he should be reported for griefing.

And besides, he used the key. How about those players who are merely leechers? Why do they deserve to do the steam champ? If anything you should be thankful that someone has the opportunity to open it.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

It’s not griefing unless you’re doing it just to annoy other people and bragging about it afterwards. If you do something you know will annoy someone, and rub it in their face afterwards, that’s griefing.

Completely different than if you’re doing something because you want to do it, and just didn’t think about those people.

If I accidentally bump into you on the street, it’s an accident and I say sorry. If I bump into you the same way intentionally and laugh at you, it’s griefing.

The action isn’t changed just the intent.

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Posted by: Mac.3872

Mac.3872

Why do some players do the Steam Champ at the Thaumanova Reactor just before the Fire Elemental so it’s locked for players wanting to do it after? And then brag about it? Players get the matrix cube key, charge it up wait for FE to finish and all interested participants to gather, put in the key and find out it’s locked out because it was run within the last 30 minutes. Usually after trying it and finding it’s not working someone chimes in on map that they had just run it to screw over everyone else.

This is starting to become annoyingly frequent. “Traditionally” it’s saved until after FE so everyone picks up more loot but since it looks like it can be locked out if done before FE when few will notice the barrier down. Why grief, if you can call it that? Why?

Why?

Because they can.

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Posted by: Vol.7601

Vol.7601

It’s not griefing unless you’re doing it just to annoy other people and bragging about it afterwards. If you do something you know will annoy someone, and rub it in their face afterwards, that’s griefing.

Completely different than if you’re doing something because you want to do it, and just didn’t think about those people.

If I accidentally bump into you on the street, it’s an accident and I say sorry. If I bump into you the same way intentionally and laugh at you, it’s griefing.

The action isn’t changed just the intent.

Bragging isn’t griefing.

And there’s not a whole lot you can do to prove that someone did that champ in order to annoy people.

Besides, if I did the champ because I wanted to play whatever I want on my own time, and someone on map chat berated me for forcing me to play according to their schedule, you can bet I’m not going to respond in kind.

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Posted by: Yargesh.4965

Yargesh.4965

An inconvenience at worst, 1 champ box less per play time for me is not in any way significant. It may be for others but frankly I get enough greens from other chests and other sources.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

It’s not griefing unless you’re doing it just to annoy other people and bragging about it afterwards. If you do something you know will annoy someone, and rub it in their face afterwards, that’s griefing.

Completely different than if you’re doing something because you want to do it, and just didn’t think about those people.

If I accidentally bump into you on the street, it’s an accident and I say sorry. If I bump into you the same way intentionally and laugh at you, it’s griefing.

The action isn’t changed just the intent.

Bragging isn’t griefing.

And there’s not a whole lot you can do to prove that someone did that champ in order to annoy people.

Besides, if I did the champ because I wanted to play whatever I want on my own time, and someone on map chat berated me for forcing me to play according to their schedule, you can bet I’m not going to respond in kind.

So neither of us were there, and it’s silly for either of us to assume. Bragging isn’t griefing. But doing something just to kitten people off is, even if it’s something you can do within the game.

If I kill something before you can get there, after I’ve seen you coming and then say, “You’re screwed sucker!” then I’m griefing you. I did it with malicious intent.

Obviously if I kill something and someone comes and gives me a hard time about killing it, responding isn’t griefing.

Unless we were there, we wouldn’t know.

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Posted by: Vol.7601

Vol.7601

It’s not griefing unless you’re doing it just to annoy other people and bragging about it afterwards. If you do something you know will annoy someone, and rub it in their face afterwards, that’s griefing.

Completely different than if you’re doing something because you want to do it, and just didn’t think about those people.

If I accidentally bump into you on the street, it’s an accident and I say sorry. If I bump into you the same way intentionally and laugh at you, it’s griefing.

The action isn’t changed just the intent.

Bragging isn’t griefing.

And there’s not a whole lot you can do to prove that someone did that champ in order to annoy people.

Besides, if I did the champ because I wanted to play whatever I want on my own time, and someone on map chat berated me for forcing me to play according to their schedule, you can bet I’m not going to respond in kind.

So neither of us were there, and it’s silly for either of us to assume. Bragging isn’t griefing. But doing something just to kitten people off is, even if it’s something you can do within the game.

If I kill something before you can get there, after I’ve seen you coming and then say, “You’re screwed sucker!” then I’m griefing you. I did it with malicious intent.

Obviously if I kill something and someone comes and gives me a hard time about killing it, responding isn’t griefing.

Unless we were there, we wouldn’t know.

Griefing to me is anything that can be reportable using common sense. Killing a mob before I get there certainly isn’t a reportable offense. I suppose it would fall under ‘tough luck buddy’

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

It’s not griefing unless you’re doing it just to annoy other people and bragging about it afterwards. If you do something you know will annoy someone, and rub it in their face afterwards, that’s griefing.

Completely different than if you’re doing something because you want to do it, and just didn’t think about those people.

If I accidentally bump into you on the street, it’s an accident and I say sorry. If I bump into you the same way intentionally and laugh at you, it’s griefing.

The action isn’t changed just the intent.

Bragging isn’t griefing.

And there’s not a whole lot you can do to prove that someone did that champ in order to annoy people.

Besides, if I did the champ because I wanted to play whatever I want on my own time, and someone on map chat berated me for forcing me to play according to their schedule, you can bet I’m not going to respond in kind.

So neither of us were there, and it’s silly for either of us to assume. Bragging isn’t griefing. But doing something just to kitten people off is, even if it’s something you can do within the game.

If I kill something before you can get there, after I’ve seen you coming and then say, “You’re screwed sucker!” then I’m griefing you. I did it with malicious intent.

Obviously if I kill something and someone comes and gives me a hard time about killing it, responding isn’t griefing.

Unless we were there, we wouldn’t know.

Griefing to me is anything that can be reportable using common sense. Killing a mob before I get there certainly isn’t a reportable offense. I suppose it would fall under ‘tough luck buddy’

Guess I’ll have to agree to disagree. To me intent plays a huge part in it. If you’re trying to hurt someone intentionally, I see that as griefing. If you’re just playing the game, or even just being self-centered or selfish it’s not.

Everyone is going to see that sort of thing differently.

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Posted by: Phoenixlin.8624

Phoenixlin.8624

So, a couple of players kills a boss before you killed another boss. You missed one single champion bag and opened a topic for this. What happened to everyone should play as they liked thing? If their playing style is self-centered or selfish, who cares?
I hope more people kill ogre before elemental. I really wanna enjoy that tears of unnecessary whining.
(I have same feelings for any kind of champion trains too)

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

As a member of a guild/server group that actively does WBT in the evenings, I can tell you why my group does it before FE. We prefer to spend available time killing champions whenever possible, not standing around cleaning our weapons for 5 minutes before FE spawns. Saving it for after FE is an additional waste of time, in our eyes, because it prevents us from running to the next champ or sending “preppers” out to other world bosses that are still off the schedule.

I can not speak for all people, all groups – but mine does give a 2 minute warning that we’re opening the Steam Ogre. We warn every 15-30 seconds in /map and /say chat. We’re not trying to grief anyone.

I’ve not been involved in WBT in a couple weeks now as I can no longer stand the current state of the game. However I had to respond in defense of my friends on this topic.

I’m sure there are griefers, OP. They always find a way. But please don’t accuse everyone that chooses to play differently than you as being a griefer.

Have a good day.

Isle of Janthir Megaserver

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

That’s why I put grief in quotes. I know it’s not griefing but in all the time I’ve done FE the Steam Ogre was always the bonus round right after but in the last month the fact it’s locked because it was recently done is new.

Knowing it’s a 10 minute lock (I got the 30 minute number from someone last night pounding their head on the barrier with the other 40 players) that means it’s likely being done while everyone is protecting CLEANER in the main FE room or during the two minutes FE is up. That’s even sadder since it’s done while everyone else is distracted and won’t notice it being done and they can run in during the last minute and still get the FE chest.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Im Mudbone.1437

Im Mudbone.1437

Griefing the Steam Gollum? WTF? There is no such thing. Many do the Gollum before FE so they can get to the next World Boss in a decent instance, every second it takes to get there is crucial. {:-รพ

Blackgate Megaserver – [LaZy] Imperium of LaZy Nation
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Funny thing is that this thread will prompt more people to do it now.

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Posted by: Im Mudbone.1437

Im Mudbone.1437

Some time back, someone linked over 100 fully charged keys(they obviously stack).

Blackgate Megaserver – [LaZy] Imperium of LaZy Nation
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Some time back, someone linked over 100 fully charged keys(they obviously stack).

Just like Twilight stacks to 250 (well 252). I’m not saying the keys do or do not but be aware that people can manipulate the chat codes very easily.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

The last time I jumped into the Steam Ogre with a charged key that I didn’t use, it burned out anyways.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Megaserver —> anonymity —> people are more apt to grief.

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Posted by: Eight O Eight.8257

Eight O Eight.8257

OP needs to learn 2 things: The rules https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ and the definition of griefing.

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Posted by: Lambent.6375

Lambent.6375

Because they want to kill it before FE. There may be some people who make fun of the people who missed it, but most people just want to do it before FE, they’re not attempting to grief.

“Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me. -Scarlet”

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Posted by: Bread.7516

Bread.7516

To me intent plays a huge part in it. If you’re trying to hurt someone intentionally, I see that as griefing. If you’re just playing the game, or even just being self-centered or selfish it’s not.

Doesn’t “intent” only legally apply if there is a crime committed? To either gauge the extent of prosecution or as a requirement to be classified under a certain crime.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

To me intent plays a huge part in it. If you’re trying to hurt someone intentionally, I see that as griefing. If you’re just playing the game, or even just being self-centered or selfish it’s not.

Doesn’t “intent” only legally apply if there is a crime committed? To either gauge the extent of prosecution or as a requirement to be classified under a certain crime.

I don’t know. Does it? If someone you know does something to you on purpose, you don’t treat it differently then if it was a complete accident, crime or no crime? If I accidently knocked over a glass of milk in your house, you’d be annoyed maybe, but you know, why cry over spilled milk. If I intentionally tip a glass of milk over just to annoy you, well that’s not a crime..but it’s sure annoying.

Everything in life, to me anyway, has something to do with intent. If someone tries to do the right thing, even if it doesn’t work out, that’s a whole lot better to me than someone intentionally out to do wrong.

I guess it’s a philosophical argument, but it works for me.

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Posted by: Ascimator.6735

Ascimator.6735

They worked to find the key and infuse it. They decided to open it. They opened it.
/thread

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Posted by: Bread.7516

Bread.7516

To me intent plays a huge part in it. If you’re trying to hurt someone intentionally, I see that as griefing. If you’re just playing the game, or even just being self-centered or selfish it’s not.

Doesn’t “intent” only legally apply if there is a crime committed? To either gauge the extent of prosecution or as a requirement to be classified under a certain crime.

I don’t know. Does it? If someone you know does something to you on purpose, you don’t treat it differently then if it was a complete accident, crime or no crime? If I accidently knocked over a glass of milk in your house, you’d be annoyed maybe, but you know, why cry over spilled milk. If I intentionally tip a glass of milk over just to annoy you, well that’s not a crime..but it’s sure annoying.

Everything in life, to me anyway, has something to do with intent. If someone tries to do the right thing, even if it doesn’t work out, that’s a whole lot better to me than someone intentionally out to do wrong.

I guess it’s a philosophical argument, but it works for me.

Well yes if you’re managing a household it’s a different context, but when it’s in a game account context where griefing is treated as an offense which is bannable it should brush against more criminal applications of intent since it must be handled professionally.

The spilled milk example is a bit different because it’s a civil case and would have different applications of “intent” where it deals with personal property. The griefing offense in which bans are handed out by anet where they are governing players; I would say this would be more of a criminal offense – so intent should be applied differently.

(edited by Bread.7516)

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Posted by: cheshirefox.7026

cheshirefox.7026

being moronic and griefing aren’t always the same thing.. though i’m sure some people do what is stated above just to be baby cats… anyway, i stopped doing the steam ogre among many other things in this game where you need to rely on other people to not be such .. baby cats!

i can outswim a centaur!
when i’m done on an issue
i start talking in nerglish

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

They worked to find the key and infuse it. They decided to open it. They opened it.
/thread

The last thing they need to infuse it is the spark from the defeated CLEANER. So they already had an charged key, use it, find another one, do FE to get CLEANER and then they charge the other three elements the next time they do FE? That just seems odd to me. Out of order.

It does makes sense that those rushing to the next boss may want to do it before.

As for me, tonight those who did FE did it after, like it’s been done every time, other than the recent handful of times, I’ve done FE in the last 19 months. And tonight the keymaster even waited until the entire crowd gathered before using it and let everyone drop their traps before calling it up.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

OP needs to learn 2 things: The rules https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ and the definition of griefing.

As I said earlier, that’s why I put griefing in quotes. I know it’s not griefing, just like jumping the train wasn’t. But it’s a chest. It’s in the same local as a Boss event. You need the defeated CLEANER to finish charging the key. Everyone gets the reward if they participate. Why not let everyone do the event? Seems terribly selfish and to taunt the crowd in local by saying they did it already so everyone finishing FE can’t. That’s just rude.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

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Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

I agree with Vayne on this one, if you are going out of your way to disrupt, annoy or harrass a player/group of players then you are griefing them. Whilst I don’t think it is or should be reportable, it is what it is, griefing all the same.

No one “owns” the mobs, but if I am killing said mobs purely so you can’t, purely so it puts a crimp in your gaming session, then I am quite clearly griefing you. Because I am doing it to have a negative impact on you.

If I know a train is killing champs in the area and I go out of my way to ninja a champ with the express intention of ruining their session, then I am griefing them. If I see someone trying to solo a champ, ignore their tells explaining that and instead proceed to jump in all the same because I want to disrupt their solo attempt, then I am griefing them.

In none of those examples would I be breaking any rules and yet I would be a griefer all the same.

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Posted by: Im Mudbone.1437

Im Mudbone.1437

I THINK I may have a solution to this if it can be implemented. Instead of the CD timer being on the Steam Ogre why not put the timer on the ones that go in, then it could be done both before and after, only those that did it before couldn’t go back in until the entrance CD timer elapsed.

Blackgate Megaserver – [LaZy] Imperium of LaZy Nation
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Phoenixlin.8624

Phoenixlin.8624

No one “owns” the mobs, but if I am killing said mobs purely so you can’t, purely so it puts a crimp in your gaming session, then I am quite clearly griefing you. Because I am doing it to have a negative impact on you.
.

What kind of logic is this? No, you are just killing a mob that gives only one useless champion bag that can be killed as long as there is a key near. Stop being drama queens and whining just because one, single champion is killed without you. It is no griefing. It is just you being a drama queen.

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Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

What kind of logic is this? No, you are just killing a mob that gives only one useless champion bag that can be killed as long as there is a key near. Stop being drama queens and whining just because one, single champion is killed without you. It is no griefing. It is just you being a drama queen.

Whilst I agree with the general “stop moaning and get on with it” sentiment, that was a somewhat strange response.

1. The logic is perfectly sound. If I am going out of my way purely to disrupt your gameplay experience or to otherwise have a negative impact upon you (outside of the remit of pvp), then I am griefing you. It isn’t a difficult concept.

Killing a mob is “just killing a mob”, killing a mob specifically to annoy/hinder you is something altogether different.

2. What loot does or does not drop is utterly inconsequential to the point I raised so it is rather odd that you would state “only one useless champion bag”.

3. Drama queen? I have zero issue with it (my background in mmos includes pre Tram UO, EVE and DF, “griefing” does not bother me one iota). I am merely pointing out that yes, if you go out of your way with the express intention of disrupting or upsetting someone, then you are griefing them. You will note I at no point directly mentioned the issue raised in the OP (the steam champ) and instead commented on the fact that I agreed with the general idea put forward by Vayne in terms of what constitutes griefing.

If people want to kill champ x, or annoy player y, I really, really could not care less. But let’s not pretend that if player A is doing it to rub player B up the wrong way that it is somehow not griefing.

(edited by Fenrir.3609)

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Posted by: justkoh.4073

justkoh.4073

I’m trying to see this particular case from another perspective.

Someone took the trouble to infuse a key and was selfish about ‘sharing’ it. However selfish, isn’t it his right to use his item as he sees fit? From this perspective, it seems that people are just upset because they feel entitled to his efforts.

How do you determine intention short of direct admission? In theory, I may be able to agree with what Fenrir says about deliberate disruption. But in practice? It’s just not enforceable at all!

Be careful. If not, we’ll start heading in the direction where anyone who refuses to fall in line with how and when you choose to play, can be considered to be griefing and that is rubbish.

Anyway, IMO this isn’t griefing. Somebody wanted everything and is upset he couldn’t get it.

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Posted by: Fenrir.3609

Fenrir.3609

I’m trying to see this particular case from another perspective.

Someone took the trouble to infuse a key and was selfish about ‘sharing’ it. However selfish, isn’t it his right to use his item as he sees fit? From this perspective, it seems that people are just upset because they feel entitled to his efforts.

How do you determine intention short of direct admission? In theory, I may be able to agree with what Fenrir says about deliberate disruption. But in practice? It’s just not enforceable at all!

Be careful. If not, we’ll start heading in the direction where anyone who refuses to fall in line with how and when you choose to play, can be considered to be griefing and that is rubbish.

Anyway, IMO this isn’t griefing. Somebody wanted everything and is upset he couldn’t get it.

I agree entirely with pretty much all of that and have zero issue with the case presented in the OP (if someone wants to kill a mob “out of turn” go for it).

As I said, I was merely pointing out that whether an act is griefing or not, has a great deal to do with the intent, not just the mechanics being used. But I would in no way condone some kind of crack down on it (nigh on impossible anyway) as it would be a slippery slope no doubt.

(edited by Fenrir.3609)

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Posted by: penelopehannibal.8947

penelopehannibal.8947

Life’s too short to worry about it. It’s one champ after all.

Blood & Merlot [Wine]

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Posted by: Sunshine.4680

Sunshine.4680

Killing champs or mobs isn’t a bad thing but killing just to annoy people and gloat to them is harassment. I don’t get why people do not see this, are we as a society so enamoured with trolls that we think this behavior is okay because it’s in the confines of a game? I guess social media harassment and antagonizing people with no way to retaliate is simply just fine and dandy because it doesn’t effect you.

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

A part of me wishes that a separate thread were created to discuss what is or is not “griefing”, and whether it can or should be reported. Why, you ask? Because I’m getting a strong impression from this thread, from a majority of these posts, that the players that are choosing to do Steam Ogre first are the griefers being mentioned or hinted at.

Most of them are not.

One could just as easily accuse the OP of griefing for creating this thread, am I wrong? “The people around me each day aren’t playing how I want them to, kill champs in the order I demand them to, so I’ll just go to the forums and bash them.”

Isle of Janthir Megaserver

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Posted by: Sunshine.4680

Sunshine.4680

A part of me wishes that a separate thread were created to discuss what is or is not “griefing”, and whether it can or should be reported. Why, you ask? Because I’m getting a strong impression from this thread, from a majority of these posts, that the players that are choosing to do Steam Ogre first are the griefers being mentioned or hinted at.

Most of them are not.

One could just as easily accuse the OP of griefing for creating this thread, am I wrong? “The people around me each day aren’t playing how I want them to, kill champs in the order I demand them to, so I’ll just go to the forums and bash them.”

Believe he was talking about people purposely locking up the event, then bragging about in map chat. Not sure how that is hard to understand… He/She isn’t saying to not kill the champ but appears to be annoyed with people antagonizing people by killing said champ and then going “Nanana boo boo” in chat.

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

Believe he was talking about people purposely locking up the event, then bragging about in map chat. Not sure how that is hard to understand… He/She isn’t saying to not kill the champ but appears to be annoyed with people antagonizing people by killing said champ and then going “Nanana boo boo” in chat.

If we’re just talking about the OP here – It seems to me that he is crying over the antagonizing that you mention AND that people are doing it “out of order”.

Isle of Janthir Megaserver

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Posted by: Sunshine.4680

Sunshine.4680

Believe he was talking about people purposely locking up the event, then bragging about in map chat. Not sure how that is hard to understand… He/She isn’t saying to not kill the champ but appears to be annoyed with people antagonizing people by killing said champ and then going “Nanana boo boo” in chat.

If we’re just talking about the OP here – It seems to me that he is crying over the antagonizing that you mention AND that people are doing it “out of order”.

I see that but I got that he/she is more upset about people bragging about it and then in turn doing it so they can troll map chat for the purpose of being annoying.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order. People are saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order specifically to annoy someone, and it’s particularly wrong to give them grief about it after.

Obviously anyone can do any event they want. That’s not really the issue as I see it.

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Posted by: Sunshine.4680

Sunshine.4680

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order. People are saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order specifically to annoy someone, and it’s particularly wrong to give them grief about it after.

Obviously anyone can do any event they want. That’s not really the issue as I see it.

There used to be a person that would camp bandit champ when QD champ was up and antagonize people in map chat over it, then claim they were helping the game by “ending the train” these are the types of people that need a serious banhammer to the face. Trolling people just to kitten them off and then report anyone arguing with you is how these types work, yet some people don’t have an issue with this. Least you’re a decent person.

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order. People are saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order specifically to annoy someone, and it’s particularly wrong to give them grief about it after.

Obviously anyone can do any event they want. That’s not really the issue as I see it.

There used to be a person that would camp bandit champ when QD champ was up and antagonize people in map chat over it, then claim they were helping the game by “ending the train” these are the types of people that need a serious banhammer to the face. Trolling people just to kitten them off and then report anyone arguing with you is how these types work, yet some people don’t have an issue with this. Least you’re a decent person.

That’s the problem I’m having with this thread. The longer it goes on… the more it seems that anyone doing the Steam Ogre before FE must just be a griefer and deserves “a serious banhammer to the face.”

I’m sorry but that’s wrong.

Isle of Janthir Megaserver

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order. People are saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order specifically to annoy someone, and it’s particularly wrong to give them grief about it after.

Obviously anyone can do any event they want. That’s not really the issue as I see it.

There used to be a person that would camp bandit champ when QD champ was up and antagonize people in map chat over it, then claim they were helping the game by “ending the train” these are the types of people that need a serious banhammer to the face. Trolling people just to kitten them off and then report anyone arguing with you is how these types work, yet some people don’t have an issue with this. Least you’re a decent person.

That’s the problem I’m having with this thread. The longer it goes on… the more it seems that anyone doing the Steam Ogre before FE must just be a griefer and deserves “a serious banhammer to the face.”

I’m sorry but that’s wrong.

Except that’s exactly not what we’re saying.

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Posted by: Brother Grimm.5176

Brother Grimm.5176

So someone descides to do a Champ before you want to and this is defined as “griefing”? You do understand there are NO actual Champ train rules in any zone at any time, right?

Now the bragging about doing it first before eveyone else (and if they specifically indicate the did it to screw over those that want to do it after FE) IS potentially verbal griefing and certainly in bad taste (but when has any expectation of manners been met by the majority of “L33Tish” players in any MMO?).

I’d also add that any verbal abuse by those that are unhappy about it being done before FE is potentially griefing as your expectation that EVERYONE MUST do the Champ when you want is just simply delusional. You can be POed about the situation, but name calling and venting over (i.e. THIS post) it is just a silly waste of bandwidth.

We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances

(edited by Brother Grimm.5176)

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order. People are saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order specifically to annoy someone, and it’s particularly wrong to give them grief about it after.

Obviously anyone can do any event they want. That’s not really the issue as I see it.

There used to be a person that would camp bandit champ when QD champ was up and antagonize people in map chat over it, then claim they were helping the game by “ending the train” these are the types of people that need a serious banhammer to the face. Trolling people just to kitten them off and then report anyone arguing with you is how these types work, yet some people don’t have an issue with this. Least you’re a decent person.

That’s the problem I’m having with this thread. The longer it goes on… the more it seems that anyone doing the Steam Ogre before FE must just be a griefer and deserves “a serious banhammer to the face.”

I’m sorry but that’s wrong.

Except that’s exactly not what we’re saying.

Okay, its not what you’re saying.
However its what the thread is implying.

Guilt by association is a powerful thing.

Isle of Janthir Megaserver

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order. People are saying it’s wrong to do stuff out of order specifically to annoy someone, and it’s particularly wrong to give them grief about it after.

Obviously anyone can do any event they want. That’s not really the issue as I see it.

There used to be a person that would camp bandit champ when QD champ was up and antagonize people in map chat over it, then claim they were helping the game by “ending the train” these are the types of people that need a serious banhammer to the face. Trolling people just to kitten them off and then report anyone arguing with you is how these types work, yet some people don’t have an issue with this. Least you’re a decent person.

That’s the problem I’m having with this thread. The longer it goes on… the more it seems that anyone doing the Steam Ogre before FE must just be a griefer and deserves “a serious banhammer to the face.”

I’m sorry but that’s wrong.

Except that’s exactly not what we’re saying.

Okay, its not what you’re saying.
However its what the thread is implying.

Guilt by association is a powerful thing.

This sword cuts both ways. Griefers use the sentiments from what you’re saying to justify what they do, even though they only do it TO grief. They wouldn’t do it if it didn’t bother someone.

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Posted by: Azhure.1857

Azhure.1857

Huh?

Isle of Janthir Megaserver