Guild Wars 2

Grind is OK!

…

…

As long as it’s

• fun
• giving progression

Neither of which is the case here.

I’m not sure if its the relentless crushing mat grind but lately when I log in I get a craving for cheese, and I subconsciously moved my toaster closer to the bath.
I have to put 3 teaspoons of grind in my coffee just to stay awake.
My gaming soul is being crushed between the RNG and DR millstones whilst I dizzily go around in circles yelling where’s the train, where’s the train, where’s the train.
My index finger now has biceps.

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Guild Wars 2, to this day, still holds true to their Manifesto. Anet didn’t make a grindy game, but that doesn’t mean they left out the grind completely. You can play this game any way you want, and still have access to the same content, same story. The grind is there if you choose.

One huge mistake these complainers are making is that they feel they can’t live without Ascended gear. In their minds, they’ve convinced themselves that in order to be good at this game, you have to have the best gear. This is completely untrue. You can have max weapons, armor, and all trinkets and accessories, and still lose to another player clad in all Rare level gear. Skill will always hold more weight than gear.

Please note the following: BiS gear should be a goal, not a requirement. If you feel it’s a requirement, then that means you’ve forced the grind upon yourself.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Guild Wars 2, to this day, still holds true to their Manifesto. Anet didn’t make a grindy game, but that doesn’t mean they left out the grind completely. You can play this game any way you want, and still have access to the same content, same story. The grind is there if you choose.

One huge mistake these complainers are making is that they feel they can’t live without Ascended gear. In their minds, they’ve convinced themselves that in order to be good at this game, you have to have the best gear. This is completely untrue. You can have max weapons, armor, and all trinkets and accessories, and still lose to another player clad in all Rare level gear. Skill will always hold more weight than gear.

Please note the following: BiS gear should be a goal, not a requirement. If you feel it’s a requirement, then that means you’ve forced the grind upon yourself.

Another entitlement post. This is new and original. At least come up with a new horse if you are going to bash other’s opinions.

Entitlement has nothing to do with abysmal drop rates to the point where playing is pointless a lot of the time.

In the mind of arenanet: Grind is awesome, such profit $$$ , many gems $$$ , wow!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Guild Wars 2, to this day, still holds true to their Manifesto. Anet didn’t make a grindy game, but that doesn’t mean they left out the grind completely. You can play this game any way you want, and still have access to the same content, same story. The grind is there if you choose.

One huge mistake these complainers are making is that they feel they can’t live without Ascended gear. In their minds, they’ve convinced themselves that in order to be good at this game, you have to have the best gear. This is completely untrue. You can have max weapons, armor, and all trinkets and accessories, and still lose to another player clad in all Rare level gear. Skill will always hold more weight than gear.

Please note the following: BiS gear should be a goal, not a requirement. If you feel it’s a requirement, then that means you’ve forced the grind upon yourself.

Entitlement has nothing to do with the absurd drop rate for core crafting materials.

You don’t have to grind in this game, except for leveling to 80. Hell, you don’t even need Exotics to do dungeons (which where designed for the absence of them), but you’re going to get them quickly anyways.

Unless you’re an Min/Maxer, there’s never any need to grind. Grind is never mandatory.

Unless you want nice things.

It also reminds of me of a few achievements that you need to either pay with gold or by purchasing a finisher.

Phy.2913:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Guild Wars 2, to this day, still holds true to their Manifesto. Anet didn’t make a grindy game, but that doesn’t mean they left out the grind completely. You can play this game any way you want, and still have access to the same content, same story. The grind is there if you choose.

One huge mistake these complainers are making is that they feel they can’t live without Ascended gear. In their minds, they’ve convinced themselves that in order to be good at this game, you have to have the best gear. This is completely untrue. You can have max weapons, armor, and all trinkets and accessories, and still lose to another player clad in all Rare level gear. Skill will always hold more weight than gear.

Please note the following: BiS gear should be a goal, not a requirement. If you feel it’s a requirement, then that means you’ve forced the grind upon yourself.

Entitlement has nothing to do with the absurd drop rate for core crafting materials.

I miss the days of bots, when crafting materials could be bought at a decent price. Removal of bots from the game was the single worst thing to happen to the TP.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Untrue and you’re just derailing this topic by even bringing this up.

cesmode.4257:

@OP:

I agree with you, this is a very grindy game. Much of it is not needed but thanks to the human psychy, we feel compelled to do it. We feel compelled to chase that carrot and get the absolute best gear we can, not because we need it because we want it. I feel that devs prey on this compulsion.

I agree with that, plus there’s the fact that its really the only goal at end game, nothing else, so of course people are going to chase that carrot.

It’s only a grind if you want to get the best gear, skins etc. ASAP.

I started playing at launch, got my main character to level 80 back in April and I still only have 2 (uninfused) ascended rings. I was saving up laurels for the accessories, but then I spent 1/2 of them on World XP to gain ranks so I could get the dolyak from the WvW Season 1 chest. I haven’t yet decided if I’m going to get them next time I have enough laurels or if I’m going to get one of the minis instead.

I’ve got a few stacks of each of the ascended crafting materials, and I’ve started throwing away any more that I get because I’m not close to reaching 500 in any of my crafting professions so it’s not worth hanging on to them. At this rate I’ll get an ascended weapon drop before I’m ready to make one. And if not I’ll make one eventually. (Although actually for 3 of my main characters weapons I’m going to skip regular ascended and make legendaries instead. The 4th is a sword and I don’t like Bolt.)

In short I’m very much taking my time with it, doing things as and when it’s convenient to me.

Why? Because you don’t actually need the best gear at all. You can do everything in this game in exotics, and most things relatively easily in rares (or even lower). Yes it’s nice to have the best stuff, but it’s not so important that you need to focus on it to the exclusion of everything else, definitely not to the point where you’re not having fun doing it.

So I play whatever I feel like playing, in whatever gear I happen to be wearing at the time, and work on improving it when I feel like it or realise I’ve got the means to acquire another piece.

Leamas.5803:

Phy.2913:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Guild Wars 2, to this day, still holds true to their Manifesto. Anet didn’t make a grindy game, but that doesn’t mean they left out the grind completely. You can play this game any way you want, and still have access to the same content, same story. The grind is there if you choose.

One huge mistake these complainers are making is that they feel they can’t live without Ascended gear. In their minds, they’ve convinced themselves that in order to be good at this game, you have to have the best gear. This is completely untrue. You can have max weapons, armor, and all trinkets and accessories, and still lose to another player clad in all Rare level gear. Skill will always hold more weight than gear.

Please note the following: BiS gear should be a goal, not a requirement. If you feel it’s a requirement, then that means you’ve forced the grind upon yourself.

Entitlement has nothing to do with the absurd drop rate for core crafting materials.

I miss the days of bots, when crafting materials could be bought at a decent price. Removal of bots from the game was the single worst thing to happen to the TP.

Agreed hehehe, would it be wrong to demand them back even after having reported so many. I would even send a person letter of apology to each one. I’m not sure how long that thread would last!

mergi.1407:

Leamas.5803:

Phy.2913:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Guild Wars 2, to this day, still holds true to their Manifesto. Anet didn’t make a grindy game, but that doesn’t mean they left out the grind completely. You can play this game any way you want, and still have access to the same content, same story. The grind is there if you choose.

One huge mistake these complainers are making is that they feel they can’t live without Ascended gear. In their minds, they’ve convinced themselves that in order to be good at this game, you have to have the best gear. This is completely untrue. You can have max weapons, armor, and all trinkets and accessories, and still lose to another player clad in all Rare level gear. Skill will always hold more weight than gear.

Please note the following: BiS gear should be a goal, not a requirement. If you feel it’s a requirement, then that means you’ve forced the grind upon yourself.

Entitlement has nothing to do with the absurd drop rate for core crafting materials.

I miss the days of bots, when crafting materials could be bought at a decent price. Removal of bots from the game was the single worst thing to happen to the TP.

Agreed hehehe, would it be wrong to demand them back even after having reported so many. I would even send a person letter of apology to each one. I’m not sure how long that thread would last!

They could solve it by not making it a ridiculous grind.

morrolan.9608:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Untrue and you’re just derailing this topic by even bringing this up.

How so? Everything I posted is true and based on facts. If you want something, you put effort into doing/getting it. You make the choice to grind because you want something, not because Anet forces you.

People are blind to the fact that when they suggest that Anet make something easier for them, it’s completely unfair to those who are willing to put in the time to do it themselves. If I can make the time to level my crafting discipline, to gather or buy the necessary mats, and to take the time to do make the daily “T7” Ascended refinements, why should another player be given a free pass to skip all that? What makes one player’s time more important than another’s?

There is no forced grind in this game. If you complain that you “must” grind, that means you’ve forced yourself to do so. Thus if you’re forcing yourself, you can’t complain, since it’s all your choice.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

morrolan.9608:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Untrue and you’re just derailing this topic by even bringing this up.

How so? Everything I posted is true and based on facts.

Calling it entitlement is not factual.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

morrolan.9608:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What all this comes down to is Entitlement. Certain players feel entitled to the best stuff as soon as possible. So when there’s gated end game content, and the player really wants it right away, they’ll call it a “grind”.

Untrue and you’re just derailing this topic by even bringing this up.

How so? Everything I posted is true and based on facts. If you want something, you put effort into doing/getting it. You make the choice to grind because you want something, not because Anet forces you.

People are blind to the fact that when they when they suggest that Anet make something easier for them, it’s completely unfair to those who are willing to put in the time to do it themselves. If I can make the time to level my crafting discipline, to gather or buy the necessary mats, and to take the time to do make the daily “T7” Ascended refinements, why should another player be given a free pass to skip all that? What makes one player’s time more important than another’s?

There is no forced grind in this game. If you complain that you “must” grind, that means you’ve forced yourself to do so. Thus if you’re forcing yourself, you can’t complain, since it’s all your choice.

Penguin mate you may be taking this a bit literally here, I think you are equating ‘forced’ to people actually really wanting to do the content. And they want to do it for fun! And have fun doing it!
Nobody is forced to do anything at all, even log in, yourself included, but we do want to do the content because – ‘drum roll’ it is there! No other reason is needed.
And if that content is a massive crazy grind then we can hardly call that fun or even a game anymore.
So you are right that nobody is technically forced, but I think your use of the word forced is incorrect.
When their is only one path to a destination then that is the path you are forced to take to get there. Do you see the difference?
What people are saying when they complain about grind is that they want alternative paths to the same goal that suit their individual play style.

mergi.1407:

Penguin mate you may be taking this a bit literally here, I think you are equating ‘forced’ to people actually really wanting to do the content. And they want to do it for fun! And have fun doing it!
Nobody is forced to do anything at all, even log in, yourself included, but we do want to do the content because – ‘drum roll’ it is there! No other reason is needed.
And if that content is a massive crazy grind then we can hardly call that fun or even a game anymore.
So you are right that nobody is technically forced, but I think your use of the word forced is incorrect.
When their is only one path to a destination then that is the path you are forced to take to get there. Do you see the difference?
What people are saying when they complain about grind is that they want alternative paths to the same goal that suit their individual play style.

I hear you. But at the same time, realize that if you want something in game, you make the choice to do it or not. The content is there for everyone to do, but the game doesn’t make you have to do it.

If there’s only one path for a reward, and the player really wants it, then the player decides if the requirements for that reward are worth it. Take Legendary weapons for example. That’s the biggest grind in the game. If you want to craft it, you have to make massive efforts to do various types of content multiple times. If you want to buy it off the TP, you still need to make a massive effort to earn enough money to do so.

When a player wants an alternative path, that means they don’t want to put in the effort for the path provided. There can be different reason for this. It might be physically impossible for them to do a required Jumping Puzzle because of a handicap. It might be because they only SPvP. It might be because they just dislike the current path all together. But when you provide alternative paths, each path must fair, so that one is no more easy to do than the other. Otherwise, you invalidate all the hard work a player did on Path A, where someone could stroll easily through Path B.

Now then, regarding Ascended gear, there are multiple alternatives already available. Weapons (and armors?) boxes are rare drops in PvE and WvW. You can get rings as rewards for FotM, or use Relics/Commendations to buy the one you want. You can use Laurels to make a purchase of amulets. or rings. Or you can level your crafting discipline, and make your own gear (hopefully jewelry as well).

I dont feel that I have ground anything. Ive each class at 80 in full exotics some with multiple sets. Im perfectly happy running around wvw in just exotics. Everything Ive done has been by my own choice. For the last few months I have not paid attention or gone out of my way to complete dailies and have 140 laurals just every once in a while I get a popup sayin Ive done my dayly. I guess if you feel forced to do it it would feel like a grind. I dont feel forced.

azizul.8469:

ascended gear was added to the game simply to rectify ANET’s own mistake in estimating how long the players could get the exotics, which turns out to be very fast….

so yeah, it’s their mistake; we had to grind…

Ok then where are all the alternative ways to get Ascended gear?

Where is Ascended gear for Karma?
Where is Ascended gear for Badges?
Where is Ascended gear for Tokens?

But no, Ascended gear is reserved for the most grindy, expensive and boring activity in this game, crafting.

Without rewards all you have is WvW and sPvP

and really… those have a limit in ‘fun’

azizul.8469:

ascended gear was added to the game simply to rectify ANET’s own mistake in estimating how long the players could get the exotics, which turns out to be very fast….

so yeah, it’s their mistake; we had to grind…

It’s amazing that people still believe that lie by Anet. Please refer to the (now infamous) quote by Colin Johnson about expecting people to reach BiS gear by the time they reach level 80.

Lord Kuru.3685:

azizul.8469:

ascended gear was added to the game simply to rectify ANET’s own mistake in estimating how long the players could get the exotics, which turns out to be very fast….

so yeah, it’s their mistake; we had to grind…

It’s amazing that people still believe that lie by Anet. Please refer to the (now infamous) quote by Colin Johnson about expecting people to reach BiS gear by the time they reach level 80.

It’s weird seeing this.

On one hand we have Colin saying saying that they want and expect us to have the best statistical loot by the time we hit 80. Then, we get a post from someone else there saying that it was never suppose to be like that.
I would think their bag of BS is getting thin at this point.

It was true until enough players complained that there was no vertical progression in gear beyond exotic. So they took the passive/aggressive approach and added it but made it a grind to get. In the long term this probably led to more bad blood than by not including any at all but hey, ce la via.

mesme.5028:

I started gw2 perhaps just over 6 months ago and It feels like all we do in is grind, maybe it is fine for peeps who got gw2 when it was released?

Most peeps want decent armor and weapons, this is before you consider ascended trinkets, back piece and rings, then getting infused, if you add up the time the laurels take to get these and then the infusion and mats, its quite the grind in itself.

Now we are onto ascended weapons and leveling crafting, this is costly and you have to grind like mad for the mats and gold to be able to level crafting, then you have to make said weapon.

Next its onto ascended armor, again the grind to level more crafting and again the mats and gold required and the grind that goes with it.

I don’t want to be left behind and i am sure others feel that way too, on my main character i have got all the ascended trinkets and rings infused where appropriate, as yet have no ascended weapon ( grinding for it atm)

Now we are onto ascended armor and i still have the weapon grinding, will the grind ever stop?

All this and i would like a legendary, thou i don’t see me ever getting one, i have given up any hope of ever getting one like many other peeps, as i just do not have the gold or enough hours in the day to grind for that also.

Really Devs enough with the grind, let the peeps who didn’t get gw2 on release day have a chance to catch up, will you? please, pretty please with sugar on top.

This isn’t world of warcraft, there is hardly a vertical climb on gear, anyone can purchase exotic gear and by time you hit 80 if you played wise or well you should have more than enough money for exotics. Ascended is the only climb so I’m not sure how you can ‘catch’ up exactly unless you are asking for it to be handed to you.

All games are a grind, it’s how they are portrayed that makes them feel like one. GW2 does a great job at trying to keep different ways to obtain things rather than just one.

mesme.5028:

I started gw2 perhaps just over 6 months ago and It feels like all we do in is grind, maybe it is fine for peeps who got gw2 when it was released?

Most peeps want decent armor and weapons, this is before you consider ascended trinkets, back piece and rings, then getting infused, if you add up the time the laurels take to get these and then the infusion and mats, its quite the grind in itself.

Now we are onto ascended weapons and leveling crafting, this is costly and you have to grind like mad for the mats and gold to be able to level crafting, then you have to make said weapon.

Next its onto ascended armor, again the grind to level more crafting and again the mats and gold required and the grind that goes with it.

I don’t want to be left behind and i am sure others feel that way too, on my main character i have got all the ascended trinkets and rings infused where appropriate, as yet have no ascended weapon ( grinding for it atm)

Now we are onto ascended armor and i still have the weapon grinding, will the grind ever stop?

All this and i would like a legendary, thou i don’t see me ever getting one, i have given up any hope of ever getting one like many other peeps, as i just do not have the gold or enough hours in the day to grind for that also.

Really Devs enough with the grind, let the peeps who didn’t get gw2 on release day have a chance to catch up, will you? please, pretty please with sugar on top.

No. Ever. (You expect anet to raise loot rewards? Welcome to korean mmo grind level.)

Lord Kuru.3685:

azizul.8469:

ascended gear was added to the game simply to rectify ANET’s own mistake in estimating how long the players could get the exotics, which turns out to be very fast….

so yeah, it’s their mistake; we had to grind…

It’s amazing that people still believe that lie by Anet. Please refer to the (now infamous) quote by Colin Johnson about expecting people to reach BiS gear by the time they reach level 80.

The game was rushed out the door… they already intended to have ascended gear in the game clearly because if you look at the release date, and look at when fractals came out, there was no way in hell they created the gear in the short period of time.

Please quit fooling yourselves and looking for the negative that doesn’t exist. Guild Wars 2 wasn’t even finished upon release, and sPvP is a good view of that.

Osi.3504:

Lord Kuru.3685:

azizul.8469:

ascended gear was added to the game simply to rectify ANET’s own mistake in estimating how long the players could get the exotics, which turns out to be very fast….

so yeah, it’s their mistake; we had to grind…

It’s amazing that people still believe that lie by Anet. Please refer to the (now infamous) quote by Colin Johnson about expecting people to reach BiS gear by the time they reach level 80.

The game was rushed out the door… they already intended to have ascended gear in the game clearly because if you look at the release date, and look at when fractals came out, there was no way in hell they created the gear in the short period of time.

Please quit fooling yourselves and looking for the negative that doesn’t exist. Guild Wars 2 wasn’t even finished upon release, and sPvP is a good view of that.

They likely had fractals under development but shoehorned Ascended in when they decided to do a 180 on the gear grind. Again, refer to the infamous quote.

Anet simply got greedy when the game sold more than expected and panicked when those who were not their target audience started complaining about the lack of grind. So now we have a game that was developed to be one thing, but supported after release to be something else — making the whole thing a big mess that satisfies no one.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Osi.3504:

Lord Kuru.3685:

azizul.8469:

ascended gear was added to the game simply to rectify ANET’s own mistake in estimating how long the players could get the exotics, which turns out to be very fast….

so yeah, it’s their mistake; we had to grind…

It’s amazing that people still believe that lie by Anet. Please refer to the (now infamous) quote by Colin Johnson about expecting people to reach BiS gear by the time they reach level 80.

The game was rushed out the door… they already intended to have ascended gear in the game clearly because if you look at the release date, and look at when fractals came out, there was no way in hell they created the gear in the short period of time.

Please quit fooling yourselves and looking for the negative that doesn’t exist. Guild Wars 2 wasn’t even finished upon release, and sPvP is a good view of that.

They likely had fractals under development but shoehorned Ascended in when they decided to do a 180 on the gear grind. Again, refer to the infamous quote.

Anet simply got greedy when the game sold more than expected and panicked when those who were not their target audience started complaining about the lack of grind. So now we have a game that was developed to be one thing, but supported after release to be something else — making the whole thing a big mess that satisfies no one.

Do you live in Washington or Colorodo? Nevermind that, just because one guy said one thing doesn’t mean he was right and you don’t have to hold onto it till you die, it’s possible for them to be wrong and it wasn’t the first time one Dev said something that wasn’t correct. There is also a quote out there that said it was already intended to be implemented and if you realize how long it takes to design game icons, items etc. then you would be able to understand Ascended gear was implemented before the game came out it was just not released yet because Fractals was one of the updates they planned to introduce to us for content.

So i finally finished the weapon grind and got my warrior an ascended weapon,
Now with 45 ar i can do 40+ fracts, /does the happy dance / jumps up and down and runs around in circles all happy that i can now play with friends in40+ fracts….

Then a black cloud loomed over me on realization i cant go +40 fracts i now need an ascended bow a axe and a mace…..i could just cry.

Faced with yet more grind i feel like giving up:(.