Guild Wars 2

El Psy Congroo.7965:

Sound more like 6 months for the FIRST upgrade in our case.
I mean, don’t you think that’s ridiculous?
We paid to have a Guild Hall, not a useless map with nothing to do on it.

Be happy, you just earn years of things to do then
Farm gold if you want, or gather mats…
It’ll stack every day until you can unlock it…

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

It’s a rare occasion for me to actually agree with Astral on these forums, but this is one of those occasions.. small guilds had to work seriously hard for 3 years to get where they were up to the point of the expansion and now find themselves completely shafted once more. Many of us worked tirelessly to have our guilds get the unlocks already done and now we gotta grind for months and years once more just to get back to the point we were at 2 months ago.
Its a complete smack in the face for many of us and totally not needed, in fact I would hazard a guess its gunna be a large reason behind players pushing away from this rubbish sooner than later.. overpriced expansion with little content actually included, total bug farce and already showing signs that performance cannot be reliably maintained ..
Its a big ask to just be able to obtain a guild hall (one of the major SP’s of this ruddy expansion), which in turn opens up huge gold sinks and grindfest like no other for any small guild out there, which to me shows a lazy approach or lack of thought into how to scale content and requirements appropriately… then again scaling has always been total trash in GW2 imo.

I seriously have to question whether they actually have a grasp on what MMO’s are really about these days… not everyone want to play as part of a fortune 500 guild, but if that’s what ANET think then it’s time to head back to other titles that have a better handle on things.

I’m in favor of some kind of help, particularly for smaller existing guilds that have already trained up. I’m not sure I’m in favor of new guilds being treated quite the same way, but for already existing small guilds, some compensation should be given.

By the same token I feel Anet needs to do things to encourage larger guilds as well, because they’re a whole hell of a lot harder to run and manage. If my guild of 200 has the same benefits as a guild of five, why should I put the work into.

And guild recruiting is hard enough without some reason to go to larger guilds as well. It’s very easy to say poor me, I’m a small guild when up until now, particularly in PvE, 99% of the content could be done with a small guild.

There needs to be a balance between giving small guilds the ability to advance and still encouraging people to join large guilds as well, or it’s not fair to us. Remember, up until recently, with the exception of WvW, the whole game was the bastion of small guilds and larger guilds didn’t have nearly as much to do.

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

Warframe did the Dojo building in their game right:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Clan#Clan_Tier

As the table shows, you can have different sized clans based on the biggest barracks build in your Dojo. Depending on that, you can invite more people, but at the same time all rooms you can build will increase in cost by the same multiplicative factor that got applied to the maximum amount of players your clan can hold.

If you are a small 10 player clan you will pay the minimum for each room. If you build barracks for the next clansize you can have 30 players but you will also pay 3 times the amount for rooms.

Rooms have building time, so reducing the clansize just to build a single room from 1000 to 10 will require like a week or so to rebuild back to 1000 max players and in the meantime 990 of your players will be without access to the clan or its dojo (which is required for research of new items).

As a member of a sub 10 player clan in that game, I have access to a massive dojo with every relevant research facility, tradings posts etc.
And we already have enough materials to build decorations and decorative room.

A similar system should be used in GW2.

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

errrmmmm e.g our 4 man RL Guild also already claimed it. First was a fail cause it was just a trial to look at the system but second time it works smoothy with 3+ 2 guest via lfg tool

And we know with 4 Guys the process will be slow but this everyone knows before!

All is fine

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

My point is, that guy and yourself (since you agree to him) complain and feel entitled to certain things because you lost a full upgraded guild but you are not the ONLY one that lost a full upgraded guild. So, how can you feel entitled to something when majority don’t feel that way? If majority do feel that way, why is the complain thread so little, not as many as the HOT preorder veterans complain?

I run a small (15 members, 7-8 active “core” members) guild, and the changes that came with HoT / Guild Halls have thrown us back quite a bit. Claiming the GH was easy, the event scaled quite well. But we are already struggling with basic Tavern Restoration 1 – not badly struggling, but struggling nonetheless. When I had a quick lock at the material costs needed to upgrade the buildings/services to a level that I can provide the same services (banners, boosts, etc.) to my guild members that I could before HoT, it was quite a shock. It will take us ages to just get back to the “functional” level we had before the patch.

Guild Halls, we were promised, would open up new and exiting possibilities for us. We knew that it would take us a bit longer than the big guilds to unlock all that fun stuff, we didn’t expect to be thrown back to the stone age, though. The guild hall provides no benefit, no fun activities/functions to us in its current state, it doesn’t even foster social aspects at this level. And it’s not that guild members don’t want to contribute, most of them simply can’t, or only in very small amounts – our guild specifically caters to working people who play the game with laid-back, mature, like-minded people after getting home from a long day at the office; there are no “farmers” here that swim in gold to buy the needed resources.

Some people have suggested “don’t be so elitist and simply recruit more people”. And sure, having more members makes it a bit easier to shoulder the burden, but that pseudo-argument completely ignores the fact that a) there are good reasons to not want to exceed a certain guild size, and being a bit “picky” about who you want to play with, and b) recruiting members – especially if you cater to a specific demographic – is everything but easy, seeing how you compete with tons of other guilds that all want to bolster their ranks.

For large guilds, as their members progress through the HoT content, they will naturally earn a lot of the things required for their guild hall to progress with them – because they each just have to contribute a bit (also in a large guild the chances are way higher you have 1 or 2 players that actually enjoy farming, sit on a lot of gold, and don’t mind spending it on upgrading the GH). For small guilds, we have to make a decision: do I want to progress in the HoT content, do some fun stuff with my guild mates, maybe play a bit of WvW, show the newbies the joy of jumping puzzles? OR do I want to spend the evening farming, so we can afford the next upgrade in a week or two? This is quite crippling. It incentivizes players to leave small guilds and make the larger guilds even larger, it punishes players that enjoy playing with a more familiar/personal circle of friends.

A first step to better this situation would be to make access to banner and boost creation available (or at least a LOT easier to unlock) to the guilds that had those capabilities before HoT, so that the guild actually provides some material benefit to its members again.

In a next step I wish the ANet guild team would take a long and hard look at just how much smaller guilds are being left behind, and then a) clearly communicate if things are working as intended in respect to smaller guilds, and b) if they agree that the current guild hall upgrade system disproportionately punishes/hinders/gates smaller guilds, put systems in place that allow small guilds to have a noticeable guild hall progression over time. There are games out there that successfully have implemented tiered clan/guild structures, it’s worth taking a hint or two from them. Would a tiered system be exploitable? Possibly. But there are ways to limit this with some effort.

SkyShroud.2865:

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

My point is, that guy and yourself (since you agree to him) complain and feel entitled to certain things because you lost a full upgraded guild but you are not the ONLY one that lost a full upgraded guild. So, how can you feel entitled to something when majority don’t feel that way? If majority do feel that way, why is the complain thread so little, not as many as the HOT preorder veterans complain?

Clueless answer is .. clueless.
Who said anything about being entitled.. no one is saying we shouldn’t have to work to get things.. L2read then engage brain before opening mouth.
As for you thinking this complaint is a true representation of the “MAJORITY or MINORITY” then again you have no idea and no evidence to back that statement up.
less than 1% of the player base ever go near the forums in pretty much any MMO so please refrain from trying to make out your some super duper player who knows all ..
There are far better informed white knights on these forums, leave the sucky sucky up to them perhaps.

Can small guilds at least get the ability that we earned ages ago of running the missions we like back? We like to run Bounties, Rushes, and Puzzles. Now we are stuck doing random PvE missions we don’t even like. What’s the point of going through earning it all over again when ArenaNet may change it all again and make us start over?

Can the people defending this at least see the frustration small guilds are having with that? We had to spend influence over the course of months to earn the missions we wanted to do. We earned it. Now we are back to square one with costs even more prohibitive than last time. It’s a mess.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Clueless answer is .. clueless.
Who said anything about being entitled.. no one is saying we shouldn’t have to work to get things.. L2read then engage brain before opening mouth.
As for you thinking this complaint is a true representation of the “MAJORITY or MINORITY” then again you have no idea and no evidence to back that statement up.
less than 1% of the player base ever go near the forums in pretty much any MMO so please refrain from trying to make out your some super duper player who knows all ..
There are far better informed white knights on these forums, leave the sucky sucky up to them perhaps.

You are ridiculous, you yourself is unable to backup your 1% number and there you are, demanding evidence from me by putting words into my posts, since when I ever say is a true representation but nevertheless, it can’t be far off when plenty of guilds already gotten their upgrades moving while conflicting opinions are already demonstrated in the forums. Why not you prove to me that less than 1% of the player base ever go to the forums. Also, this thread is all about demanding tavern costs and other building costs to be reduced and you said you worked for it, did you work for the tavern before HOT? Please refrain from behaving like a hooligan.

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

I’m in a 140 person guild… so not large by any means. Any given night we have 20-40 regularly active players. We claimed Guilded Hollow our first attempt a day after launch. We were one of the first few in the world to get our pvp vendor up. We were the first on our server to get our arena up…

We are a tight knit organized guild who use TS regularly to coordinate and socialize. All of us put the guild before ourselves. We have a set schedule of guild events everyone enjoys so we get things done as a community.

It’s not about how big your guild is. It’s about the type of people you recruit and the in guild atmosphere you foster…

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

I’m in a 140 person guild… so not large by any means. Any given night we have 20-40 regularly active players. We claimed Guilded Hollow our first attempt a day after launch. We were one of the first few in the world to get our pvp vendor up. We were the first on our server to get our arena up…

It’s not about how big your guild is. It’s about the type of people you recruit and the in guild atmosphere you foster…

To be fair, 140 people, for many guilds, IS a large guild. Sure, 20 people can claim a guild hall easy, but we already know that.

I wish you were right and it truly wasn’t about how big my guild is, but for a lot of the guild content in this game, it simply is.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

I’m in a 140 person guild… so not large by any means. Any given night we have 20-40 regularly active players. We claimed Guilded Hollow our first attempt a day after launch. We were one of the first few in the world to get our pvp vendor up. We were the first on our server to get our arena up…

It’s not about how big your guild is. It’s about the type of people you recruit and the in guild atmosphere you foster…

To be fair, 140 people, for many guilds, IS a large guild. Sure, 20 people can claim a guild hall easy, but we already know that.

I wish you were right and it truly wasn’t about how big my guild is, but for a lot of the guild content in this game, it simply is.

That’s why I stated the caveat of 20-40 active players. I can assure you it has been that group shouldering the vast majority of the burden of costs associated with the guild hall. That way you can understand it is comparable to smaller guilds.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

I’m in a 140 person guild… so not large by any means. Any given night we have 20-40 regularly active players. We claimed Guilded Hollow our first attempt a day after launch. We were one of the first few in the world to get our pvp vendor up. We were the first on our server to get our arena up…

We are a tight knit organized guild who use TS regularly to coordinate and socialize. All of us put the guild before ourselves. We have a set schedule of guild events everyone enjoys so we get things done as a community.

It’s not about how big your guild is. It’s about the type of people you recruit and the in guild atmosphere you foster…

of course its about your guild size.. if your in a small guild of <10 players you have to work way harder or rely on others to help. Just to increase guild levels and complete missions is an ask in itself… if the requirements were better scaled to accommodate but keep the same level of difficulty as a guild with 20, 50, 500 members then it should have been done.
To now say small guilds under a certain size should no longer function is a smack in the face from ANET.
But as I have said before the only real way to combat this rip of philosophy is to stop putting coin their way and/or leave.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

I’m in a 140 person guild… so not large by any means. Any given night we have 20-40 regularly active players. We claimed Guilded Hollow our first attempt a day after launch. We were one of the first few in the world to get our pvp vendor up. We were the first on our server to get our arena up…

We are a tight knit organized guild who use TS regularly to coordinate and socialize. All of us put the guild before ourselves. We have a set schedule of guild events everyone enjoys so we get things done as a community.

It’s not about how big your guild is. It’s about the type of people you recruit and the in guild atmosphere you foster…

of course its about your guild size.. if your in a small guild of <10 players you have to work way harder or rely on others to help. Just to increase guild levels and complete missions is an ask in itself… if the requirements were better scaled to accommodate but keep the same level of difficulty as a guild with 20, 50, 500 members then it should have been done.
To now say small guilds under a certain size should no longer function is a smack in the face from ANET.
But as I have said before the only real way to combat this rip of philosophy is to stop putting coin their way and/or leave.

Not trying to be offensive here I swear… but a ten man isn’t a guild. It’s a raid party. A wvw havoc squad. A group of friends with a tag… I honestly feel 10-20 person guilds would be the minority in this game. They can’t cater to the minority. My advice? Expand your circle of trust. There are very good people out there looking for a guild.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

I’m in a 140 person guild… so not large by any means. Any given night we have 20-40 regularly active players. We claimed Guilded Hollow our first attempt a day after launch. We were one of the first few in the world to get our pvp vendor up. We were the first on our server to get our arena up…

We are a tight knit organized guild who use TS regularly to coordinate and socialize. All of us put the guild before ourselves. We have a set schedule of guild events everyone enjoys so we get things done as a community.

It’s not about how big your guild is. It’s about the type of people you recruit and the in guild atmosphere you foster…

of course its about your guild size.. if your in a small guild of <10 players you have to work way harder or rely on others to help. Just to increase guild levels and complete missions is an ask in itself… if the requirements were better scaled to accommodate but keep the same level of difficulty as a guild with 20, 50, 500 members then it should have been done.
To now say small guilds under a certain size should no longer function is a smack in the face from ANET.
But as I have said before the only real way to combat this rip of philosophy is to stop putting coin their way and/or leave.

Not trying to be offensive here I swear… but a ten man isn’t a guild. It’s a raid party. A wvw havoc squad. A group of friends with a tag… I honestly feel 10-20 person guilds would be the minority in this game. They can’t cater to the minority. My advice? Expand your circle of trust. There are very good people out there looking for a guild.

According to Colin, arenanet considers 5+ people a guild actually, and that’s the number they designed the guild systems around.

Considering you can easily claim a hall with 3 people, and only a very small number of guild missions require more than that (and a large number of them are soloable) I’d say they did a pretty good job hitting the accessibility goal of their stated minimum number.

It would be more clear if they changed founding a guild to require 5 people so users could stop being confused about the intent of the guild systems.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Not trying to be offensive here I swear… but a ten man isn’t a guild.

The thing is, GW2 says that it is. Any number that they allow to make a guild and name it and have access to the guild panel, etc, is by definition, a guild.

What I don’t get is why they allow the confusion of making a small guild but then don’t tailor much of their guild-focused gameplay to include the small ones. It would have been better, imo, if they had set a minimum guild number and then included that number in their guild content percentages.

I mean, it just stands to reason that something that is meant to be challenging for 500 people all working in tandem for say, 9 months, to achieve is going to be an unreasonable hardship for 10 people or 50 people.

I know all the white knights just respond to this with “50/20/10 people don’t deserve to be a guild” or “work longer, stupid” but it’s still a really disparate goal for both group sizes.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Not trying to be offensive here I swear… but a ten man isn’t a guild.

The thing is, GW2 says that it is. Any number that they allow to make a guild and name it and have access to the guild panel, etc, is by definition, a guild.

What I don’t get is why they allow the confusion of making a small guild but then don’t tailor much of their guild-focused gameplay to include the small ones. It would have been better, imo, if they had set a minimum guild number and then included that number in their guild content percentages.

I mean, it just stands to reason that something that is meant to be challenging for 500 people all working in tandem for say, 9 months, to achieve is going to be an unreasonable hardship for 10 people or 50 people.

I know all the white knights just respond to this with “50/20/10 people don’t deserve to be a guild” or “work longer, stupid” but it’s still a really disparate goal for both group sizes.

Having it be a disparate amount of work for equal advancement is fine, as long as smaller guilds (within the framework that they designeed the system for, 5 players or more) are seeing meaningful advancement at a reasonable pace.

I run a small guild. We’ve been averaging an upgrade to one thing or another every day or two, and looking at the projections for cost it’s going to slow to about one a week before we hit the same time gate wall as every other guild, and the rate of resources stops mattering as the time for aetherium mining becomes the primary bottleneck.

We only really have three people far enough in to their “personal endgame” to contribute resources regularly, and with just those tree peope I’ve found the rate of advancement feels perfectly reasonable.

It really is a matter of getting your guild to actually pitch in, and that was the entire point of the redesign. To make guilds require and reward active effort rather than passive reward.

I agree that it’s inconsistant in the new system to continue to allow people to found guilds alone as the new systems don’t really support that size.

Indeed, you can make a guild with any numbers, however, it also means that by choosing to remain small, you are limiting yourselves to certain contents and in this case, guild missions. You can call the people who argue or are against your opinions white knights but do be aware that I, myself, is against the opinions in this thread because the suggestion given involve scaling and scaling itself is unfair to all bigger guilds, this include guilds that might be big on the roster but small in active level.

Honestly, if every single person in a 500 guild donated, it wouldn’t even be considered a challenge.

Btw, this is taken from a interview with anet. Given this statement, unlikely they will make further changes.

Our goal was to ensure we didn’t really need to tweak any major game system again after this expansion and our focus could be entirely on adding new content,

SkyShroud.2865:

You can call the people that are against your opinions white knights

I never did this.

Celtic Lady.3729:

SkyShroud.2865:

You can call the people that are against your opinions white knights

I never did this.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I know all the white knights just respond to this with “50/20/10 people don’t deserve to be a guild” or “work longer, stupid” but it’s still a really disparate goal for both group sizes.

Ermm….so what this white knights refer to?

SkyShroud.2865:

Celtic Lady.3729:

SkyShroud.2865:

You can call the people that are against your opinions white knights

I never did this.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I know all the white knights just respond to this with “50/20/10 people don’t deserve to be a guild” or “work longer, stupid” but it’s still a really disparate goal for both group sizes.

Ermm….so what this white knights refer to?

The white knights I’m referring to are the people I’ve encountered on the forum that agree with all of the game’s decisions no matter what the discussion is about. Whether it’s a reasonable suggestion/request/critique or not, they defend the game. Several notable ones also call me names. Those are the people and attitudes I referenced. It has nothing to do with a difference of opinion.

just make an option to toggle down costs on upgrades but if you do so the member maximum becomes like 5 or 6 or so and can’t ever be changed back. ez

i’m in a guild with perhaps 20 people and none of us has a problem with the costs whatsoever. we all realize that those upgrades are not supposed to be had right now. may take us a year or even more to fully upgrade the hall but whatevs.

As a small guild myself, I am okay with what I’ve seen so far; except for two things.
1) the gold requirements are a little higher than I’d like.
2) some materials should be lower, because of the economy shift.

Sadly these two things are a catch 22 that have been said already. If they scaled it, larger guilds would abuse it. If they lowered it larger guilds would finish very quickly.
This would help smaller guilds by making it take less time to finish, but why go to a smaller guild who is still building and not a large guild who finished already.

Just my two cents.

Ps: Guild hall scaling is perfectly fine; my guild did it with a single party of 5.

SkyShroud.2865:

Healix.5819:

Base the costs on the capacity of the guild. Start guilds at 10 people with upgrades for 50, 100, 250 and 500. If you upgrade your capacity, you lose access to whatever, but are discounted what you’ve already paid. Basing the costs on zerg guilds is silly. It’s the zerg guilds that should be heavily punished.

Ermm…..

So the large guilds are supposed to be punished or heavily taxed for the works and dramas they had to go through to become large. I see, sounds fair.

On a side note, which part of it is fair if a guild that paid lesser can get to access the same amount of things as a guild which paid more? In reality, a lot of things can be fair while a lot of things can also be unfair. However, a rule remain, a small factory can only produce a limited number of things while a large factory can produce a larger number of things. If scaling had to be done, it has to be done with this rule in mind.

You need to take a math class

If you have 300 members donating materials, the cost for each memeber will be very low compared to if 10 members of a guild must donate the same things. Add to that the 300 members will be able to finsih most things in the guild hall within a month or two (guilds already have gvg arena) whilst small guild with 10 people looking for a year or more with nonstop farming materials and not playing anything else.

There has to be a way to make it worth while for both big and small guilds. I don’t know how it would work, maybe make it about kapacity, as in active members. If you want to add more active members that can use the guildhalls, then you have to add more donation to add the new limit. This way you can scale how much it cost and add more if you want to have more active memebers being able to join in.

Leaa.2943:

SkyShroud.2865:

Healix.5819:

Base the costs on the capacity of the guild. Start guilds at 10 people with upgrades for 50, 100, 250 and 500. If you upgrade your capacity, you lose access to whatever, but are discounted what you’ve already paid. Basing the costs on zerg guilds is silly. It’s the zerg guilds that should be heavily punished.

Ermm…..

So the large guilds are supposed to be punished or heavily taxed for the works and dramas they had to go through to become large. I see, sounds fair.

On a side note, which part of it is fair if a guild that paid lesser can get to access the same amount of things as a guild which paid more? In reality, a lot of things can be fair while a lot of things can also be unfair. However, a rule remain, a small factory can only produce a limited number of things while a large factory can produce a larger number of things. If scaling had to be done, it has to be done with this rule in mind.

You need to take a math class

If you have 300 members donating materials, the cost for each memeber will be very low compared to if 10 members of a guild must donate the same things. Add to that the 300 members will be able to finsih most things in the guild hall within a month or two (guilds already have gvg arena) whilst small guild with 10 people looking for a year or more with nonstop farming materials and not playing anything else.

There has to be a way to make it worth while for both big and small guilds. I don’t know how it would work, maybe make it about kapacity, as in active members. If you want to add more active members that can use the guildhalls, then you have to add more donation to add the new limit. This way you can scale how much it cost and add more if you want to have more active memebers being able to join in.

Actually the cost is still the same.

Nice fallacy though. The average cost per player is lower, the total cost never changed.

you still don’t understand. you could just create another temporary guild, put all your members there, massively lower the costs while still getting contributions from all the members through the temporary guild. once the guild hall is finished you disband the temporary guild and reinvite the members again. this way big guilds would finish the hall literally in just the time the upgrades need to finish.
the only possibility would be to add the costs a guild saved by being small to member-slot upgrades what on the other hand would make smaller guilds absolutely inaccessible once they already built a few upgrades.

any system that would scale costs for smaller guilds has way too many drawbacks. that’s why there is none, i would guess.

Is it expensive to unlock workshop (for scribe crafting), or merchant(for guild mission)?

Else someone please tell me what’s the point on getting guild hall.

You can just get a personal custom arena if you really want to pvp.

the point of a guild hall is building a teeth grinding jumping puzzle that you have to beat in order to get to the npcs for your guildies over night while they’re sleeping. i don’t see any other point in having a guild hall than trolling my guild mates.
but i guess having a hub you can port in and out from wherever is also nice.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

I’m in a 140 person guild… so not large by any means. Any given night we have 20-40 regularly active players. We claimed Guilded Hollow our first attempt a day after launch. We were one of the first few in the world to get our pvp vendor up. We were the first on our server to get our arena up…

We are a tight knit organized guild who use TS regularly to coordinate and socialize. All of us put the guild before ourselves. We have a set schedule of guild events everyone enjoys so we get things done as a community.

It’s not about how big your guild is. It’s about the type of people you recruit and the in guild atmosphere you foster…

of course its about your guild size.. if your in a small guild of <10 players you have to work way harder or rely on others to help. Just to increase guild levels and complete missions is an ask in itself… if the requirements were better scaled to accommodate but keep the same level of difficulty as a guild with 20, 50, 500 members then it should have been done.
To now say small guilds under a certain size should no longer function is a smack in the face from ANET.
But as I have said before the only real way to combat this rip of philosophy is to stop putting coin their way and/or leave.

Not trying to be offensive here I swear… but a ten man isn’t a guild. It’s a raid party. A wvw havoc squad. A group of friends with a tag… I honestly feel 10-20 person guilds would be the minority in this game. They can’t cater to the minority. My advice? Expand your circle of trust. There are very good people out there looking for a guild.

Your opinion is yours.. to me its moot and as ANET allow just a single person to create a Guild and content designed around short man groups.. ie 5 in party at a time.. your point is doubly moot to me.
As for expanding.. Why should small guilds have to expand – we prefer to play in small guilds for reasons of our own – trust being one but family, close friends, etc being others and closed guilds exist to play within those circles.. add to that many small guilds don’t have the time to organise large guild activity and prefer to steer away from any additional dramas that more often than not become all to common.

Single man guilds I agree are nothing more than storage ponies but more than that then they have every right to be able to have access to the content that is paid for .. as it stands that is very much a sore point with many small guilds… not impossible to overcome, no one said it was, but there is no way a 5 man guild can grindout the necessary mats, coin etc any time soon for a lot of the upgrades currently and I dare not think too far ahead either – and that’s where small guilds are going to simply drift away due to loss of interest imo.

Bottom line is ANET have screwed small guilds over royally.. they know it but hope it pushes gem sales up so those guilds convert to gold and buy mats upgrades and go back for more gems.. larger sized guilds have no such issues cos its spread a lot thinner and requires everyone to do a hell of a lot less in game.

Varonth.5830:

Warframe did the Dojo building in their game right:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Clan#Clan_Tier

As the table shows, you can have different sized clans based on the biggest barracks build in your Dojo. Depending on that, you can invite more people, but at the same time all rooms you can build will increase in cost by the same multiplicative factor that got applied to the maximum amount of players your clan can hold.

If you are a small 10 player clan you will pay the minimum for each room. If you build barracks for the next clansize you can have 30 players but you will also pay 3 times the amount for rooms.

Rooms have building time, so reducing the clansize just to build a single room from 1000 to 10 will require like a week or so to rebuild back to 1000 max players and in the meantime 990 of your players will be without access to the clan or its dojo (which is required for research of new items).

As a member of a sub 10 player clan in that game, I have access to a massive dojo with every relevant research facility, tradings posts etc.
And we already have enough materials to build decorations and decorative room.

A similar system should be used in GW2.

My clan totally exploited that system.

We built the entirety of the functional dojo at minimum size and cost, and only then upgraded barracks and added everyone else. Not only that, warframe, as a f2p game supported completely by microtransactions, actually allowed us to speed track it through buying the puzzle piece thingies directly from the cash shop.

It’s an extremely easy system for large clans to exploit, and did nothing but make it even easier for large clans to subvert the cost.

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Astralporing.1957:

Bunter.3795:

Everything a small guild needs is available for less than 200g. An expedition costs 100g and you can buy the merchant and repair station for less than 100g with no other materials needed besides favor. If you want more than that, you need to play the game just like everyone else.

Just because you “want it now” doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. You have to work for it like everyone else.

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

You know, you are complaining like you are the only one whose full upgrade guild got taken away.

There are more than 4,000 guilds (according to anet statistics that claimed guild halls) and how many % of those guilds complained?

eermm what’s your point and what are you trying to represent.

4000 guilds is nothing in comparison to how many guilds are in the game.. on any given hour you can count a 100’s of different guilds trying to recruit in map chat.
Maybe now ask yourself how many of those 4000 guilds have 10 or less members.. I don’t mean solo guild banks.. actual guilds with small friends/family members.

Bottom line is you have no clue what your on about and what the stats really show.

I will stick my neck out and say the vast majority of those 4000 guilds are much larger in size and therefore have a much easier time in claiming, unlocking and upgrading.
No one said it has to be easy win for small guilds.. the same level of difficulty can exist based on appropriate scaling of requirements and difficulty without having to resort to ripping players off with an expansion promising new features then effectively taking away what they had already achieved and locking it behind further gold sinks and grindfests and forcing guilds to start over… desperate attempts at player retention and gem sales with kind of mullarkey will likely only force players to grow discontent and leave, something my guild discussed only last night.

My daughters and I quit playing for almost 2 years because of the direction of this game and we are pretty upset with this expansion. The expansion took a lot away that we already had and just added a huge grind on to it and called content. Its lame. Its lazy. Its greedy. I really hope anet listens and fixes these issues like they did with the elite specializations. We are going to wait a little bit longer but we are looking at alternatives.

PS, its not about wanting stuff for free. Many of us are upset that they take stuff away and lock it behind more grind and paywalls, then call it new content. I’m pretty sure many of the largest guilds find it Bull Manure that they have to unlock everything again but they will do it begrudgingly because they can. Not because they want to.

SkyShroud.2865:

Indeed, you can make a guild with any numbers, however, it also means that by choosing to remain small, you are limiting yourselves to certain contents and in this case, guild missions. You can call the people who argue or are against your opinions white knights but do be aware that I, myself, is against the opinions in this thread because the suggestion given involve scaling and scaling itself is unfair to all bigger guilds, this include guilds that might be big on the roster but small in active level.

Honestly, if every single person in a 500 guild donated, it wouldn’t even be considered a challenge.

Btw, this is taken from a interview with anet. Given this statement, unlikely they will make further changes.

Our goal was to ensure we didn’t really need to tweak any major game system again after this expansion and our focus could be entirely on adding new content,

Back peddling much.

What are you talking about.. Not everyone wants to be a desperado in guild chat notching up bodies for the sake of it… that is one of the major reasons small guilds exist.. they are more often than not a closed guild of friends/family etc and have no desire to open the floodgates. You might like being a number on a guild roster, others dont and no one should be forced or limited to expand guilds unless they want to.
ANET set out the guild systems around 5man groups but now they have stifled those guilds, which I would hazard a guess make up a fair chunk of the concurrent playerbase.
Bottom line they have sold an expansion using new guild systems, guild halls etc as one of its major SP’s but when the money is handed over they hit us with the BS.. no wonder much of the info on the expansion was so vague and guarded, cos doing the maths many guilds I bet wouldn’t of bothered shelling out for an expac that actually doesn’t have much in it and is veiled in grind and money sinks to flesh out the content for longer.

What they should of done was ensure that guild progression and achievements were consistent across the varying guild sizes.. like many other MMO’s do and have done for many a moon… but this to me smells of very lazy or poorly thought through development angles when it comes to progressive content systems… tied in with a money grab.

SkyShroud.2865:

Indeed, you can make a guild with any numbers, however, it also means that by choosing to remain small, you are limiting yourselves to certain contents and in this case, guild missions. You can call the people who argue or are against your opinions white knights but do be aware that I, myself, is against the opinions in this thread because the suggestion given involve scaling and scaling itself is unfair to all bigger guilds, this include guilds that might be big on the roster but small in active level.

Honestly, if every single person in a 500 guild donated, it wouldn’t even be considered a challenge.

Btw, this is taken from a interview with anet. Given this statement, unlikely they will make further changes.

Our goal was to ensure we didn’t really need to tweak any major game system again after this expansion and our focus could be entirely on adding new content,

You might wanna go read the latest Colin state of the game posting… iirc he is already telling us they are going to be more a lot of tweaks and rebalances etc on a regular basis going forward .. once again your info is very questionable.

PopeUrban.2578:

Varonth.5830:

Warframe did the Dojo building in their game right:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Clan#Clan_Tier

As the table shows, you can have different sized clans based on the biggest barracks build in your Dojo. Depending on that, you can invite more people, but at the same time all rooms you can build will increase in cost by the same multiplicative factor that got applied to the maximum amount of players your clan can hold.

If you are a small 10 player clan you will pay the minimum for each room. If you build barracks for the next clansize you can have 30 players but you will also pay 3 times the amount for rooms.

Rooms have building time, so reducing the clansize just to build a single room from 1000 to 10 will require like a week or so to rebuild back to 1000 max players and in the meantime 990 of your players will be without access to the clan or its dojo (which is required for research of new items).

As a member of a sub 10 player clan in that game, I have access to a massive dojo with every relevant research facility, tradings posts etc.
And we already have enough materials to build decorations and decorative room.

A similar system should be used in GW2.

My clan totally exploited that system.

We built the entirety of the functional dojo at minimum size and cost, and only then upgraded barracks and added everyone else. Not only that, warframe, as a f2p game supported completely by microtransactions, actually allowed us to speed track it through buying the puzzle piece thingies directly from the cash shop.

It’s an extremely easy system for large clans to exploit, and did nothing but make it even easier for large clans to subvert the cost.

I think DDOs system, after quite a few growing pains, is pretty good. Every guild can get a guild ship and slot in upgrades and buffs. They can even upgrade the ship to have more slots for those things. But it’s really hard for small guilds to get the best ships and keep every buff and upgrade running with out playing 24/7. It is a good balance and it is not really exploitable. There are lots of games they could have gotten ideas from.

They should have made it so that if a guild had everything unlocked before and then did the expedition and got a guild hall, that it then would have everything unlocked that it did before. And for new guilds or guilds that did not have anything the cost would be equal to what it was previously and used the same currency. There was really no reason to recreate the entire system. That was done so they could add some huge grind to it and only to add huge grind.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

PopeUrban.2578:

Varonth.5830:

Warframe did the Dojo building in their game right:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Clan#Clan_Tier

As the table shows, you can have different sized clans based on the biggest barracks build in your Dojo. Depending on that, you can invite more people, but at the same time all rooms you can build will increase in cost by the same multiplicative factor that got applied to the maximum amount of players your clan can hold.

If you are a small 10 player clan you will pay the minimum for each room. If you build barracks for the next clansize you can have 30 players but you will also pay 3 times the amount for rooms.

Rooms have building time, so reducing the clansize just to build a single room from 1000 to 10 will require like a week or so to rebuild back to 1000 max players and in the meantime 990 of your players will be without access to the clan or its dojo (which is required for research of new items).

As a member of a sub 10 player clan in that game, I have access to a massive dojo with every relevant research facility, tradings posts etc.
And we already have enough materials to build decorations and decorative room.

A similar system should be used in GW2.

My clan totally exploited that system.

We built the entirety of the functional dojo at minimum size and cost, and only then upgraded barracks and added everyone else. Not only that, warframe, as a f2p game supported completely by microtransactions, actually allowed us to speed track it through buying the puzzle piece thingies directly from the cash shop.

It’s an extremely easy system for large clans to exploit, and did nothing but make it even easier for large clans to subvert the cost.

I think DDOs system, after quite a few growing pains, is pretty good. Every guild can get a guild ship and slot in upgrades and buffs. They can even upgrade the ship to have more slots for those things. But it’s really hard for small guilds to get the best ships and keep every buff and upgrade running with out playing 24/7. It is a good balance and it is not really exploitable. There are lots of games they could have gotten ideas from.

They should have made it so that if a guild had everything unlocked before and then did the expedition and got a guild hall, that it then would have everything unlocked that it did before. And for new guilds or guilds that did not have anything the cost would be equal to what it was previously and used the same currency. There was really no reason to recreate the entire system. That was done so they could add some huge grind to it and only to add huge grind.

You do have everything unlocked that you had before, unless what you had no longer exists.

Every consumable you had unlocked can be bought instantly with favor in the guild initiative building. Every guild bank upgrade still works, all of the old guild armor unlocks still work, and every guild mission unlock is a moot point since guild missions no longer require unlocking in the new system.

In fact, you actually have more options if you had those things unlocked previously, as any guild that didn’t have an unlock from the old system doesn’t have the option of trading favor for those consumables, and can only access them through direct purchase with commendations or having a scribe craft them.

On top of that, once you do advance the guild hall, those unlocks remain unlocked. You don’t need to gain an xp banner unlock in the tavern if you previously had it unlocked, you immediate have it avaliable for scribe crafting.

Overall they are more costly to obtain than before, but this is across the entire system. However, if you had those unlocks in the previous system you have the option of trading excess favor rather than scribing materials.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

PopeUrban.2578:

Varonth.5830:

Warframe did the Dojo building in their game right:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Clan#Clan_Tier

As the table shows, you can have different sized clans based on the biggest barracks build in your Dojo. Depending on that, you can invite more people, but at the same time all rooms you can build will increase in cost by the same multiplicative factor that got applied to the maximum amount of players your clan can hold.

If you are a small 10 player clan you will pay the minimum for each room. If you build barracks for the next clansize you can have 30 players but you will also pay 3 times the amount for rooms.

Rooms have building time, so reducing the clansize just to build a single room from 1000 to 10 will require like a week or so to rebuild back to 1000 max players and in the meantime 990 of your players will be without access to the clan or its dojo (which is required for research of new items).

As a member of a sub 10 player clan in that game, I have access to a massive dojo with every relevant research facility, tradings posts etc.
And we already have enough materials to build decorations and decorative room.

A similar system should be used in GW2.

My clan totally exploited that system.

We built the entirety of the functional dojo at minimum size and cost, and only then upgraded barracks and added everyone else. Not only that, warframe, as a f2p game supported completely by microtransactions, actually allowed us to speed track it through buying the puzzle piece thingies directly from the cash shop.

It’s an extremely easy system for large clans to exploit, and did nothing but make it even easier for large clans to subvert the cost.

I think DDOs system, after quite a few growing pains, is pretty good. Every guild can get a guild ship and slot in upgrades and buffs. They can even upgrade the ship to have more slots for those things. But it’s really hard for small guilds to get the best ships and keep every buff and upgrade running with out playing 24/7. It is a good balance and it is not really exploitable. There are lots of games they could have gotten ideas from.

They should have made it so that if a guild had everything unlocked before and then did the expedition and got a guild hall, that it then would have everything unlocked that it did before. And for new guilds or guilds that did not have anything the cost would be equal to what it was previously and used the same currency. There was really no reason to recreate the entire system. That was done so they could add some huge grind to it and only to add huge grind.

That’s been my MMO of choice .. since the very first EU beta lightbulb went on.
ANET could learn a lot from the systems utilised in DDO.. I rate it highly even after 12 years its still has excellent build diversity, content scalability, and modes, guild functionality systems, combat mechanics. The only thing that held DDO back for so long was the legal rangles over lore and who owned the rights to the lore.. now that’s history it is pushing quality content out lot more timely and dare I say “more in line with its playerbase’s needs”

As for guild ships.. our small guild had to work hard to get it, upgrade it and maintain it.. but that’s the fun part to owning it.. its not meant to be easy but neither is it meant to be taken away from you and relocked behind paywalls and grinds when changes are made -DDO scales the effort requirements very well imo without making it easy win for any size guild new or old. – I disagree though when you say you have to work 24/7.. never has my guild needed that kind of effort in DDO… in GW2 well that’s a different story entirely now.

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Indeed, you can make a guild with any numbers, however, it also means that by choosing to remain small, you are limiting yourselves to certain contents and in this case, guild missions. You can call the people who argue or are against your opinions white knights but do be aware that I, myself, is against the opinions in this thread because the suggestion given involve scaling and scaling itself is unfair to all bigger guilds, this include guilds that might be big on the roster but small in active level.

Honestly, if every single person in a 500 guild donated, it wouldn’t even be considered a challenge.

Btw, this is taken from a interview with anet. Given this statement, unlikely they will make further changes.

Our goal was to ensure we didn’t really need to tweak any major game system again after this expansion and our focus could be entirely on adding new content,

You might wanna go read the latest Colin state of the game posting… iirc he is already telling us they are going to be more a lot of tweaks and rebalances etc on a regular basis going forward .. once again your info is very questionable.

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing and enjoy twisting words. Your arguments in many of your posts have very little logic behind it and is fueled with emotional speech. Balancing and modifying major game system are two distinct things. Major game systems are like guilds, wvw’s new map, the skills tree system etc.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/10256/Guild-Wars-2-Heart-of-Thorns-One-Week-In-with-Colin-Johanson.html

Leaa.2943:

SkyShroud.2865:

Healix.5819:

Base the costs on the capacity of the guild. Start guilds at 10 people with upgrades for 50, 100, 250 and 500. If you upgrade your capacity, you lose access to whatever, but are discounted what you’ve already paid. Basing the costs on zerg guilds is silly. It’s the zerg guilds that should be heavily punished.

Ermm…..

So the large guilds are supposed to be punished or heavily taxed for the works and dramas they had to go through to become large. I see, sounds fair.

On a side note, which part of it is fair if a guild that paid lesser can get to access the same amount of things as a guild which paid more? In reality, a lot of things can be fair while a lot of things can also be unfair. However, a rule remain, a small factory can only produce a limited number of things while a large factory can produce a larger number of things. If scaling had to be done, it has to be done with this rule in mind.

You need to take a math class

If you have 300 members donating materials, the cost for each memeber will be very low compared to if 10 members of a guild must donate the same things. Add to that the 300 members will be able to finsih most things in the guild hall within a month or two (guilds already have gvg arena) whilst small guild with 10 people looking for a year or more with nonstop farming materials and not playing anything else.

There has to be a way to make it worth while for both big and small guilds. I don’t know how it would work, maybe make it about kapacity, as in active members. If you want to add more active members that can use the guildhalls, then you have to add more donation to add the new limit. This way you can scale how much it cost and add more if you want to have more active memebers being able to join in.

I think you need to do a reality check. You have taken for granted that every single person in a 500 guild will donate, likewise, every single 500-guild has 500 active people. Theory and in practice are very different things. You might think theoretically, scaling is fair but reality is, it will never be fair because not everything will behave like what you think it will.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

I’m just waiting for the day when you see “WTS fully upgraded Guild Hall with all unlocks 10k PST” in map chat. Because it is going to happen.

It won’t since it actually costs more than 10k gold for a fully upgraded Guild Hall.

Cassellw.4731:

just FYI to the OP, GW 2 said 6month to unlock everything as a 10 player guild not 100s of players

No they actually said 6 month for the average guild. the average guild is probably about 100-150 players. Not 10 players.

Iason Evan.3806:

Why should a ten person guild have to pay so much coin to access a tavern as a place to hang out? The costs weren’t bad in GW1. The costs right now are crazy. I remember getting a guild hall with an old guild I was in in GW1 and Sigils cost like 75k. It was spendy. Especially back in the beginning of that game’s lifespan. This dwarfs that in comparison in terms of cost.

No it actually doesn’t. I remember that time too, Celestial Sigils cost 75 plats when most people didn’t even own 1 plat. It was impossible for my guild at the time (6 people) to get a Guild Hall.

The equivalent to a Celestial Sigil is the expedition cost, which currently costs 100 gold. That gives you your guild hall. The rest are upgrades, which costs even more than the initial Guild Hall purchase/unlock. And before you try to compare the relative cost of the upgrades, you can’t because they functionality they provide are quite different.

Now don’t get me wrong, I agree that things are expensive and seems insurmountable for a small guild right now. But prices will stabilize as time goes on and generally speaking gold is becoming easier and easier to make in this game. I mean if I look at what I currently own in GW1 right now I can buy a fully upgraded guild hall outright on my own with no difficulty whereas in the past the cost of the sigil alone seems insurmountable.

Astralporing.1957:

We did, and managed to get a full unlock on our guild eventually. And then it got taken away from us.

That’s the part you seem to be missing. It is a massive grind just to get to the point where our guild was two months ago.

Yes, i think i am entitled to the things i have already worked for.

Now this is something that I actually agree with. I do feel that some of the upgrades should have been grandfathered in similar to how the guild storage upgrades were grandfathered in.

There Are Options Out There, Some Guilds May Like The Idea & Others Will Not Like The Idea.

There Is No Shame In Asking Larger Guilds For Help … Many Large Guilds Are Filled With Members Who Are Willing To Help Other Guilds Out.

1) Small Guilds May “Borrow” Players From Large Guilds (Using The Multi-Guild Membership Utility). Along With Being Members In Multiple Guilds For Chatting, This Is An Extra Utility ALL Guilds Possess. Whether They Choose To Use This Feature Is For The Players In Small To Medium Guilds To Decide.

2) Small Guilds Can Negotiate With Large Guilds On Forming A GuildHall Membership, Where The Players Of The Small Guild Would “Share” A Large Guilds Tag, Which Will Allow Them To Use Guild Ammenities They May Otherwise Not Be Able To Afford. Of Course, This Would Not Be A Guild Merger, By Any Means. The Players Of The Smaller Guild Can Switch Tags To Use Various Guild Ammenities … Switching Back To Their Original Guild Tag Once The Player(s) Have Accomplished What They Wanted To Accomplish.

The Caveat – Some Players May Leave The Small/Medium Guilds In Favor Of Joining The Larger Guild. This Is Something That No-One Can Control Except For The Individual Players Who May Participate In This Type Of Arrangement.

You don’t have to put a coin in guild hall unless very special components…
People trying to get everything instantly is not something intended to be cheap.
Guild mates are supposed to work together, not lazily throw gold in TP.

My own guild put quality over quantity. We’re few but motivated.
We don’t buy things and every materials needed is gathered and stack. We unlock things at a regular pace.

PopeUrban.2578:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

PopeUrban.2578:

Varonth.5830:

Warframe did the Dojo building in their game right:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Clan#Clan_Tier

As the table shows, you can have different sized clans based on the biggest barracks build in your Dojo. Depending on that, you can invite more people, but at the same time all rooms you can build will increase in cost by the same multiplicative factor that got applied to the maximum amount of players your clan can hold.

If you are a small 10 player clan you will pay the minimum for each room. If you build barracks for the next clansize you can have 30 players but you will also pay 3 times the amount for rooms.

Rooms have building time, so reducing the clansize just to build a single room from 1000 to 10 will require like a week or so to rebuild back to 1000 max players and in the meantime 990 of your players will be without access to the clan or its dojo (which is required for research of new items).

As a member of a sub 10 player clan in that game, I have access to a massive dojo with every relevant research facility, tradings posts etc.
And we already have enough materials to build decorations and decorative room.

A similar system should be used in GW2.

My clan totally exploited that system.

We built the entirety of the functional dojo at minimum size and cost, and only then upgraded barracks and added everyone else. Not only that, warframe, as a f2p game supported completely by microtransactions, actually allowed us to speed track it through buying the puzzle piece thingies directly from the cash shop.

It’s an extremely easy system for large clans to exploit, and did nothing but make it even easier for large clans to subvert the cost.

I think DDOs system, after quite a few growing pains, is pretty good. Every guild can get a guild ship and slot in upgrades and buffs. They can even upgrade the ship to have more slots for those things. But it’s really hard for small guilds to get the best ships and keep every buff and upgrade running with out playing 24/7. It is a good balance and it is not really exploitable. There are lots of games they could have gotten ideas from.

They should have made it so that if a guild had everything unlocked before and then did the expedition and got a guild hall, that it then would have everything unlocked that it did before. And for new guilds or guilds that did not have anything the cost would be equal to what it was previously and used the same currency. There was really no reason to recreate the entire system. That was done so they could add some huge grind to it and only to add huge grind.

You do have everything unlocked that you had before, unless what you had no longer exists.

So there’s no way to provide your guild with a persistent boost to magic find or experience anymore? Was that functionality removed from the game?