Guild Wars 2

I started playing Guild Wars 2 shortly before its release date. I bought my Digital Deluxe package and eagerly waited to log on, before being presented with a new interface that was foreign to me but elegantly designed and captivating as I was greeted and casually merged with players everywhere. I don’t know what made me lose interest so fast, and I remember enjoying my time with it but… I put it down, and now I want to pick it right back up.

The trouble is, I’ve been out of the loop. Overlooking people passing in and out of the game with their subtle opinions, but I’ve always heard the same thing.
“It was fun when it was first released, but <patch> ruined it and I couldn’t keep playing.” But now as I stare, once again updating my game as I prepare to give it another go, I wonder what actually was wrong with it, and I suppose there’s no better place to ask that kind of thing than at the source.

I assume most people reading this would be playing the game, would have been playing it for some time and have a view which is relatively strong in terms of the depth and integrity of its mechanics. I guess I need to just ask a question, with the background of my experience set in place…

What was so good about Guild Wars 2 when it first launched in comparison to now, why does everyone seem to be sour towards its updated content, and do I have a reason to be excited about sitting down and getting back into it?

I think it has more to do with the fact that less and less optimistic people uses these forums, because they get tired of all the hate going on.
The amount of hate have most likely not really increased, but it would seem like it due to lack of positive content.

I think community attitude is what made launch vs now better, at launch there was more options for wider varieties of builds and role acceptance, but that degraded into a damage meta game that I find unappealing. So it’s not so much the game as the community that ruined GW2 for me.

Unfortunately assuming people who post on the forums play is a big problem. You often have people flat out state they do not play the game and have not in a year or more.
My advice is to play the game and get feedback from people actually in the game environment.

The exploration of every zone and the understanding of your char + alts. I can still go through parts of the game thinking kitten this looks good.

lordkrall.7241:

I think it has more to do with the fact that less and less optimistic people uses these forums, because they get tired of all the hate going on.
The amount of hate have most likely not really increased, but it would seem like it due to lack of positive content.

Yeah…that’s probably it.

I like how your post is worded in such a way that arguing against it makes it look like you are actually validating it. Bravo, good sir!

/rollseyes

There are some elements off the game that gets repetative and the nerf hammer have been hitting some of the wrong places as well.

Just a small example. There was a very nice and decent ‘Train’ going in Orr round penitent waypoint. This was used to farm karma and gold. the events unvolved where actually fun and somehwhat challenging. But unfortunally the ‘in house economist’ decided that we where gaining too much money and power compared to his beloved powertraders so it had to be destroyed.

Instead of that we now got a champtrain in frostgorge sound wich is best described in the battle off the loading screens. The biggest challenge to those champs is to get through your loadingscreens and at the champ fast enough to get your hit in so you get your reward. I wondered if the person responsable for this had any shares at kitten-manufactorer.

Same goes with the living story. Many people have issues identifying themselfs with it.

I also seem to have the impression that some people here are actually blizzard employees payed by blizzard to just troll around.

I’m playing this game more then 1 year already. I got lot of interested in it. Realy enjoy the LiveStory and new content they make. Some patches I was just “omg nooo, nerf”, some was “omg this is OP” but after all those patches I understend one thing, ANET is working on balance and trying make it better and better all the time, so I enjoy it!. The WvW evolution is exiting, and I hoping it will be even better, this is the best part of the game.

We have some new World Bosses and they are rly hard. I like how the SPVP system is groving and also waiting for new patches!!

I want to say that for now, GW2 is the BEST MMO!

But who know what happends later, will it be the best, or some newcomers like “TESO” or another game, can compete with it.

So if u want to play rly nice mmo – go play GW2, pvp, wvw, pve, what ever u want. Enjoy the content with your friends. Its not a secret that u need nice friends in game to fill like “this is the game were I want to be”

I’ll try and keep this as subjective as possible and explain a little as I go.

Let me start by considering some problems that are currently present have always been present its just they have been unknown or unimportant until people start to experience them and they become more frequent and are brought to the masses.

For me the crit damage fiasco is simply one of these… It took time for people to play with builds work with classes and counter build changes as things settled to the situation we have now. It was always really there but as its brought more to the fore front people are aware and of-course it can become ammunition. I blame the players though for latching to the easy mode style play for better rewards sacrificing enjoyment of themselves and of-course others.

Content problems with Living story Vs traditional static content – Unfortunately there are pro’s and con’s to having content additions that are living and evolving through bi-weekly turn overs and it boils down to repeatability and fluid design. Content created can only be experienced in a bi-weekly format which means work done is lost to players who didn’t log into that two week period or log into the end to only be able to finish or understand half of it. Yes argue all you want that we have permanent additions to the game, but can you imagine what we would have if all the effort and content and story that has been added so far was repeatable and re-playable or was static and instanced.

The problem with LS lies in its inability to ensure players have enough… and not too much and that is all but impossible to judge when your catering to a population as large as that which resides in an MMO. People want something to do and with LS you either get with the program or lose out and its just the way it is. If things where instanced and released as a progressing story people could complete things at their on pace and sure bonus’ for completing content with the story should be rewarded but people need to be able to experience these things..

Look at the marionette, when scarlet’s all said and done new players and old returning ones can only look at videos and say… gee that looks fun.

Objective note: to me its just shooting yourself in the foot, its a nice idea… but i just don’t feel like its working as they would like/intended.

I have to go to work but there are more points i’ll edit at a later date that explain a few of the things that have changed since launch.

Actually, as far as I know, during the CDI a few months ago, Anet heard our call for more permanent content really really loud. There is only confusion to the marionette, but I believe it will be permanent content.

The updates notes are simply calling it a new world event. People deduct that it is temporary from the fact that the wurm got his own set of permanent achievements, while the marionette’s ones are listed under living world (among some others things to do for it).

I don’t know, but I think the marionette is here to stay.

Hex.6371:

What was so good about Guild Wars 2 when it first launched in comparison to now, why does everyone seem to be sour towards its updated content, and do I have a reason to be excited about sitting down and getting back into it?

I think the biggest problem was that the game didn’t meet the expectations so many of us had for it. At release it was all shiny and new — the dynamic events were fun and engaging, the map was huge and beautiful and still being uncovered. Fast forward a couple of months and the dynamic events were repeats of the things we had already done with other characters a few weeks earlier, or they were stalled and reset only at the weekly patch time. Some of the longest and most involved DE’s, things like the battle with the ogres in Fields of Ruin or the Hirathi Hinterlands event chains just didn’t work. Nothing new was happening in the world of dynamic events, there were nasty surprises like guesting not working cross-region, and vertical progression being introduced with ascended gear. There was no challenge available for groups/guilds wanting to play together, no content for more than a party of 5, they weren’t even talking about how to help guilds play together.

Honestly, things in game are better now. The living story updates give new events, bosses, and rewards, the achievement chests pop up every so often with surprise rewards, there are guild missions and other challenging content that requires coordination and organization. Even the landscape and map zones change — so do the NPC conversations in some of the towns. The world feels more alive. Most of the dynamic events are up and working and not getting stalled in the middle. You can start the Fields of Ruin ogre event chain and run with it — probably 6 or 7 dynamic events long — all the way to the end.

There are still problems that have to be fixed, no question about that. There are still quality of life issues that could make the game far better. But it is much more playable right now than it was in October-November last year.

The main thing is to not zero in on just one manner of play — run some dungeons, increase your fractal level, kill Tequatl, do some dynamic events, play the living story, do some missions with your guild. There’s quite a lot to do and if you don’t fall into the champ train mindset it is quite an enjoyable game right now.

lordkrall.7241:

I think it has more to do with the fact that less and less optimistic people uses these forums, because they get tired of all the hate going on.
The amount of hate have most likely not really increased, but it would seem like it due to lack of positive content.

This is actually an example of a mass ad hominem. It deals with zero game issues and assumes that any problem on the forums arises from a mythical group of posters that “hate”. Bad logic and bad argumentation.

Imo, it’s kind of normal feeling. This game was and is very different from other MMOs. People liked the release because maps were full of leveling people, combat was new, there was no exact “meta”, skipping in dungeons, stacking etc. People were running everything, from Guardians using torches, spirit weapons or trying to go full healing to Warriors using Rampage on trash, just to give rest of the party some more time to rest.
I remember when I first accidently blasted into a fire field and gained might. I was like “oooh, that may be cool, let’s test this stuff out!”. Same goes for World exploration, getting to all hidden places, jumping puzzles, discovering hidden mini-dungeons, getting into some lore.

It’s just typical. After some time, “metas” are created in every MMO, dungeons start to feel grindy and stale, you’ve already experienced most things the game has to offer. That’s why that many people look foward to any expansion, some fresh breeze and are that hungry for new content.
No(almost) “progression” or weekly must-done content like raiding or such fooled many people because they wanted to rush through leveling to “Endgame content”.

Honestly, if you want to join Tyria once more, you’re just in time. Find social guild, start exploring the world and new content added. You arrive just for the final parts of Living Story which are better in general than previous ones. And there’s more coming up!

When it launched it was purer than now, so obv people could enjoy the game for what it was.
Now it has gone through different changes that have made it worse.

- The economy penalizes the casul players, because community still sell at a very high cost compared to the possibilities of a casual, so some items will always be locked for him. In a horizontal progression, locking the skin or the item is a way to keep players from getting what they want. Rising the gold gained per dung run has only a raising in the costs effect from the community. And there’s still no way to earn this items in a less grindy way, where GW2 was supposed to be grindy at the minimum. Same goes for RNG, it’s presence is still too high.

- LS has been overall badly written, and even if there are one or two episodes that brought good lore to the game, the results of some good story telling were visible only after a mass complain from the community about it. This gives us a very bad impression, like the team can’t really give us their best shots unless we blame them.

- The introduction of ascended gear in all its forms has been seen as a breaking promise from Anet, where at the start they didn’t want to introduce something like this. Since a lot of players where from old gen MMOs, they wanted vertical progression, and Anet was forced to introduce it. Even if it doesn’t affect gameplay so much, it is still considered a betrayal by some of the players.

On the other hand, there are very good points:
- People complain only about the same things, because the game is overall solid. A lighthouse in the ocean of MMOs. So nothing can’t be said about the basic structure of the game, where other MMos, even now, lack solid ground.

- The LS idea is very good, and it’s the only reasonable way to manage a game like this, which counts on keeping attention without forcing to play. A lot of players found it irritant that after 2 weeks everything was gone, saying that it wasn’t enough to enjoy the episode, and sometimes it was true. Other times, though, it was perfect. Overall, this isn’t something that you see often in MMos, and if the team could be more dedicated and would make less errors in terms of taste and involvement, it would be a life changer for the game, more than it is now.

- This is the first game in which if I would spend money, I wouldn’t regret it. I see potential all over the place, and everything is good to make it work. Lore, gameplay, system, even art is very good. I’ll never stop to praise the art and the style because it’s unique and sober at the same time. Playing the game, even on those rare occasions when I have to grind, is somehow enjoyable, and never frustrating like it was with other MMos. I foudn ridiculous that new MMos like ESO are trying the same old system, and the only reason i can find is, they do it because they have a wider merchandise to bring on, where GW has always been a MMO on its own.

When any game first launches, it’s new, there’s plenty of mystery and discovery. People don’t know what to expect, and every experience is a new one. Once they’ve been playing for a year, they’ve discovered everything, the mysteries have been solved, and they know what to expect.

MMO audiences expect to play games for years, sometimes every day and for many hours each day. At some point, the “new car” feel to the game goes away and what’s left is the quest for whatever “rewards” substitute for the developer’s inability to keep up with the content-clear speed of the players.

ANet tried to keep up with the content-clear speed of players via the “every two weeks” patch cycle called Living World. This initiative has worked to some degree, in that many active players flock to the new content. There have been criticisms of the Living World story (both the writing and the delivery of the story), and the nature of the content provided (temporary versus permanent; difficulty or lack thereof; and content meant for a herd of players at once, which the forums call “zerging” — a relatively mindless activity).

The content that GW2 presented at launch is for the most part still out there to be experienced. However, current rewards are clustered in a small percentage of that content. As a consequence, much of the launch content is no longer heavily populated. This happens with all MMO’s.

One problem is that much of the GW2 design intent was based on Dynamic Events, in which groups of people work together to complete the event. As with every MMO, the “leveling population” has declined as more and more players reach max level and spend more of their time in the “reward-based content” rather than the leveling content. Thus, the leveling experience is different now that it was at launch. Leveling in zones that are not part of the current Living World release can be lonely, and some group events can be too hard for players trying to solo them.

here is my problem with GW2.

The game has turned into a intensive grind since launch.
The dev’s said there is no grind, however everything in the game now requires a grind of some sort.
The karma has been so nerf’d that you need to grind to get karma.
The largest karma pot in this game is stuck in a lvl65 zone on Teq which makes no sense when the claw of jormag is a lvl80 instance.
The economy in the game makes no sense whatsoever with linen being the most expensive cloth at T4 followed by silk at T5 and Gosemere being the highest teir having value lower then the T4 and T5.

FOTM is ridiculous compared what it used to be. Instead of fixing the map, they decided to make it so difficult at the higher lvls, that its very hard and very time consuming to complete

Waypoints…. how are we suposed to use these gold sinks if the waypoints are ALWAYS contested? Even better how are we supposed to unlock some of them when the event chain is bugged and left unfixed for MANY MANY months. Why do we even have some of these waypoints in the game when they NEVER become uncontested.

The Gem store… Ahhh this used to be my favorate place, however the content in the gem store lately has been less then appealing. Instead of actually listening to us in our want thread, they blatantly ignore us. They give us sub par stuff like the flame seekers light and expect us to praise them?

End Game… there is no end game… the only end game in this game is grinding for Karma or Gold, and doing these mindless zergs at world events.

I honestly dont see much of a future in this game with upcoming games like Elder Scrolls Online, and Wildstar unless the Dev’s decide to ACTUALLY listen to us.
Infact half my guild is going to disappear once those two games come out, and the game will get even more empty.

With the karma nerf’s the game isnt even friendly to the new population either as they will have a very long and heavy grind to get what used to take a weeks worth of karma in a month. This is NOT a good way to keep your audience.

Finally the Zerk Nerf which is suposed to come, because a fraction of the player base cant play with a Zerk Meta they decide to nerf Crit%, however instead they will end up crippling Celestial Meta… i really dont think the DEV’s were planning anything out. Instead i think a Dev got upset when he got kicked because he was not in a Zerk outfit and decided to penalize the entire community.

That is my outlook in this game.
The game is broken as it is from my point of view… Economy BROKEN… Content BROKEN… dont have to grind aspect… MAJORLY BROKEN…

I just hope ESO and Wildstar doesnt follow the path Anet did, as i do see myself moving there as well, unless Anet decides to actually sit with us, the player base.

Naekuh.7925:

I just hope ESO and Wildstar doesnt follow the path Anet did, as i do see myself moving there as well, unless Anet decides to get off there high chair and actually sit with us, the player base.

ESO is already a major grind game for getting skill alone its at least 10hr for the first 10 level it speeds up a bit but your still looking at a major time gap. Wildstar is a raiding treadmill end game system where they will always be a new loot set to get to go after a new level of raid.

I think you have no idea what a grind or a treadmill is if you call what GW2 has as such. GW2 is the most casual mmorpg out there to date and i do not see how ESO and Wildstar with know events and time spend will be “better” if your main complainer for GW2 is what these 2 games use a lot.

Jski.6180:

Naekuh.7925:

I just hope ESO and Wildstar doesnt follow the path Anet did, as i do see myself moving there as well, unless Anet decides to get off there high chair and actually sit with us, the player base.

ESO is already a major grind game for getting skill alone its at least 10hr for the first 10 level it speeds up a bit but your still looking at a major time gap. Wildstar is a raiding treadmill end game system where they will always be a new loot set to get to go after a new level of raid.

I think you have no idea what a grind or a treadmill is if you call what GW2 has as such. GW2 is the most casual mmorpg out there to date and i do not see how ESO and Wildstar with know events and time spend will be “better” if your main complainer for GW2 is what these 2 games use a lot.

How will it be any different then GW1?

Also Grinding treadmill, have you tried to farm for karma reciently?
Its extremely tiring and everything end game requires karma from Oby shards.

The only other option of getting Oby shards is though FOTM.
Have you played a lvl40+ Dredge map?
Why did they need to fix dredge? Why did they need to increase the spawn rates?
Have you also seen the loot tables on Fotm which is driving the entire community insane?

When i first started on the 3 day head starts, you didnt need to grind.
You eventually got everything you wanted over a much shorter time.
However now, you need to grind, or follow mindless World Events in large zergs.

The game has changed so much from launch, that its not aimed at people just coming in. I really feel sorry for the new people who want to get a legendary. They dont know how much more difficult it is to attain then it was even 6 months ago.

Anyhow i threw those games out as competition, not exclusions to the anti grind.
If i confused you in my statement i applogize, as those games never stated they were not a grind. However GW2 was stated by the creators to NOT be a grind, which it has now turned into.

Naekuh.7925:

Jski.6180:

Naekuh.7925:

I just hope ESO and Wildstar doesnt follow the path Anet did, as i do see myself moving there as well, unless Anet decides to get off there high chair and actually sit with us, the player base.

ESO is already a major grind game for getting skill alone its at least 10hr for the first 10 level it speeds up a bit but your still looking at a major time gap. Wildstar is a raiding treadmill end game system where they will always be a new loot set to get to go after a new level of raid.

I think you have no idea what a grind or a treadmill is if you call what GW2 has as such. GW2 is the most casual mmorpg out there to date and i do not see how ESO and Wildstar with know events and time spend will be “better” if your main complainer for GW2 is what these 2 games use a lot.

How will it be any different then GW1?

Also Grinding treadmill, have you tried to farm for karma reciently?
Its extremely tiring and everything end game requires karma from Oby shards.

The only other option of getting Oby shards is though FOTM.
Have you played a lvl40+ Dredge map?
Why did they need to fix dredge? Why did they need to increase the spawn rates?
Have you also seen the loot tables on Fotm which is driving the entire community insane?

When i first started on the 3 day head starts, you didnt need to grind.
You eventually got everything you wanted over a much shorter time.
However now, you need to grind, or follow mindless World Events in large zergs.

The game has changed so much from launch, that its not aimed at people just coming in. I really feel sorry for the new people who want to get a legendary. They dont know how much more difficult it is to attain then it was even 6 months ago.

Anyhow i threw those games out as competition, not exclusions to the anti grind.
If i confused you in my statement i applogize, as those games never stated they were not a grind. However GW2 was stated by the creators to NOT be a grind, which it has now turned into.

Point by point.
GW1 was not an mmorpg it was a HUB game like MH it was not a true open world like a real mmorpg is. It also had no TP and or AH what ever you cair to call it so there was no need to be fearful of destroying an economically.

Next point:
There is no treadmill in GW2 for a real treadmill you need to have both better gear (that is a full higher set what in GW2 is more of a +1 systom then a full set higher) and you need stronger mobs that NEED the higher gear to kill (only thing close to that is fractals and you do not need a full set to run most of the max level fractals).

The grind as you call it is not a NEEDED one its more of a want grind even GW1 had a want grind. Player needs something to work for if that is looks then its going to be looks if its a +1 gear set that give nearly nothing over all then it will be a +1 set. The the thing about real mmorpg you must keep ppl playing as long as you can. GW1 did not need to do this because it was not an mmorpg nor did Anet think of it as an mmorpg.

Your saying its too hard? It should be running a level 40 event should be something that takes work to do and you should WANT to run it if you worked to get to that level. If your just doing it for the gear the lower levels give you far more for time spent and that how it should be. That what Fractals are for hard content for ppl who want it.

First few days no one knew what they where doing every thing seems great when no one knows what going on but once you work it out ppl find the “best” ways of running things but ppl get it stuck in there heads that the only way to run things is the “best” way not the “fun” way. You could run events how you want at any time but what your doing is ASKING for things to be such where ppl cant chose to play events the way they want to. I for one like doing events with new ppl the zerg as you call it to me is a hell of a lot better then solo farming and trying to compete with other ppl to it make you hate to see other ppl but in GW2 your better off playing with other ppl so you WANT to see and WANT to play with other ppl the ideal behind playing an mmorpg.

My point is that you are putting thous games out there as if they are going to be better but you seem to hate the main things behind though games so what your saying at the end of the day is you hate grind and treadmill that you think there is in GW2 but your ok with grind and treadmill in other games that more then likely you have not played and know next to nothing about.

Raine.1394:

lordkrall.7241:

I think it has more to do with the fact that less and less optimistic people uses these forums, because they get tired of all the hate going on.
The amount of hate have most likely not really increased, but it would seem like it due to lack of positive content.

This is actually an example of a mass ad hominem. It deals with zero game issues and assumes that any problem on the forums arises from a mythical group of posters that “hate”. Bad logic and bad argumentation.

I would not say it is at all an ad hominem. It is just a matter of perspective. lordkrall was issuing a warning from his perspective on the type of advice the OP would be receiving in the forums believing that such advice may be skewed negatively.

And it is most definitely an ad hominem or hyperbole at best when you use the word ‘mythical’ for something that can be readily proven by going into most threads on these forums. Negativity can be found on most threads and composes a large number posts in them. That isn’t mythical, it is factual.

The wonderous feeling of discovering a world and immersing in fantasy is now gone to poor villain-Sue “Scarlet did it”, bad holidays, bugs and more bugs, riding repetitive trains.

Little of that wonder remained.

Yargesh.4965:

Unfortunately assuming people who post on the forums play is a big problem. You often have people flat out state they do not play the game and have not in a year or more.
My advice is to play the game and get feedback from people actually in the game environment.

I’ve seen this many times myself. You’d think if they disliked the game so much and no longer played that they’d actually go and find a game that’s more to their liking, MMO market is fairly diverse (although the cover arcing video game market is even more diverse particularly if we look at the indie scene).

Most of the criticism in these forums can actually be ignored purely on said grounds alone. Which is rather sad, when I see people listing the things they don’t like (like in this very thread) I’m unsure if the person complaining is doing so in hopes of highlighting an issue in order to help make the game better. Usually my rule of thumb is: if the person is complaining but provides no ideas or suggestions his complaint can be (if not completely outright ignored) taken with a pinch of salt.

Raine.1394:

This is actually an example of a mass ad hominem. It deals with zero game issues and assumes that any problem on the forums arises from a mythical group of posters that “hate”. Bad logic and bad argumentation.

This is actually an example of the fallacy fallacy.

The fundamental game mechanics stayed largely the same. Personally I was hyped about the game at first, and slowly lost interest. I think it has to do with combat simplification when compared to GW1. The game has also changed, and introduced grind ascended items, and gone directly against its own principle of “no grind BIS gear”.

For me it was the introduction of the horrible grind and the death of explorable content.

When the game launched you could easily acquire everything you needed for anything you wanted in the game. Sure it would take a long time, but if you needed an item there was a clear path of where to find it and how to get it. Since launch those spots have been systematically destroyed until the only feasible way to obtain a certain material is to buy it from the TP. Gems→gold→TP is the only option if you have less than 10 hours a day to play. This issue seems to stem from the fact that John Smith is essentially god at Anet. Anything that he deems economically wrong is removed from the game. The end result was a game that has a great real life economy simulator that is equally as fun…

Secondly, the most fun part of the game at launch was exploring the zones, finding hidden things, finding unique looks and earning cool gear. No new zones have been added, and zones have actually been removed/changed to have less exploration since launch. The unique looks have all been improved upon and added directly to the gem store. The best part of the game for me has been removed and replaced by a gem store cash grab.

Additionally there are no expansions being made and the LS is an endless cycle of temporary content that is horribly written and is really just a checklist of achievements.

well much of the problem is things arent new anymore, and they didnt really develop the game in a way that its as fun to do old content.

The games itemization and rewards have never been that great, and its only gotten worse, its more noticeable once you have reached the end of the game, and mostly what you do is try to get items. Item aquisition and balancing is based around the TP, meaning they look at How fast someone can get something on the via TP as the main metric for their how to get an item.

Example: halloween skins.
year one, halloween recipes were made based on how much halloween stuff you could get via playing, and a small amount of trading of what a player could get in that time period. 250 candy corn and 100 plastic fangs

year two, halloween recipes were made based on how much of the material was available on the TP, which saw the items required to get recipes requiring 10,000 candy corn and 10,000 skulls. Which essentially becomes an impossible task UNLESS you buy them via the trading post.

the commerce and rewards team, well i dont think they try to make good rewards for gameplay/promote good gameplay, they try to make items to support the TP issues/benefits

First of all my english I dont think my english is good enough, but I’ll try to be as clear as possible.
Since GW2 was announced I was hoping a lot to play it, having played Lineage 2, WoW for like 2.5 years, or more, can’t remember, and other mmos, I wanted a fresh mmo, one with a feel of a true virtual world, something only WoW, at least for me, was close to do it, something like you see in shows, movies, animes, where the game is just more than gain levels and repeat the same raids, over and over, just to show off a piece of gear that will be outdated three weeks later.

That said, I live in Colombia, and as a college student I just don’t have money to spend in games, but I, as others, won the contest ANet was doing and got a copy of the game and started playing right away. As I said, I played a lot of mmos, TERA was the last before GW2 and while the combat was so good, there wasn’t anything else to keep engaged (the pvp is horrible), then GW2 is more like a experience than your traditional mmo, and you shouldn’t play it like anything else, just enjoy and keep the flow.

Many people say a lot of bad things about the game, but as a lot of others say too, this is a diferent mmo, if you like the same (excuse me…) repetitive kitten other mmos do it, like grinding in a kittenin raid doing the same kitten over and over, this game isn’t for you, but I’m having a blast playing, haven’t feel like this since I met Lineage 2 when I was like 12, and, as my personal opinion you shouldn’t play the game alone, and just doing things like a robot, is like playing Dark Souls or Skyrim, silly comparation but in those games, you pick what to do and, moslty how to, this is exaclty like GW2… just going on a new area and see a nearby heart?, “ok lets do it”… “oh there’s an event nearby, going to have a look”, after a while, “feel like I leveled up enough, time to progress on the personal story, or maybe I’ll go to WvW just to watch how things are doing, or maybe try to complete the map, and explore that cave, maybe there’s something interesting inside… and yup, event”

In my opinion, you should play GW2 like an open world rpg with online components, and not thinking of the same kitten of leveling and grinding… (or should I mention the 200+ levels Dark Souls has?… lol).

As a lot of people say, just log in and play for a while to see how things are going, and decide for yourself…
:D

jheryn.8390:

Raine.1394:

lordkrall.7241:

I think it has more to do with the fact that less and less optimistic people uses these forums, because they get tired of all the hate going on.
The amount of hate have most likely not really increased, but it would seem like it due to lack of positive content.

This is actually an example of a mass ad hominem. It deals with zero game issues and assumes that any problem on the forums arises from a mythical group of posters that “hate”. Bad logic and bad argumentation.

I would not say it is at all an ad hominem. It is just a matter of perspective. lordkrall was issuing a warning from his perspective on the type of advice the OP would be receiving in the forums believing that such advice may be skewed negatively.

And it is most definitely an ad hominem or hyperbole at best when you use the word ‘mythical’ for something that can be readily proven by going into most threads on these forums. Negativity can be found on most threads and composes a large number posts in them. That isn’t mythical, it is factual.

Ad hominem means “to the man”. That is, it addresses some aspect of the person arguing rather than the argument itself. For example it might dismiss someone by labeling them a ‘hater’ rather than addressing the issue they raise. It is resorted to when someone either runs out of intellectual gas or was never up to the task of rationally discussing an issue to begin with.

The device of inventing a ‘hate’ group is the same as inventing a “vocal minority”. It is intended to bolster one’s position and it actually indicates a basic insecurity with one’s argument. Logically, there is no “vocal minority” and no ‘hate groups’ on the forum. There are only voices and they are either in the minority or the majority. Anet moderation is very aggressive and addresses true ‘hate’ speech immediately.

It is far better to deal with arguments or issues rather than the character or motivations of those you argue with. The forums are for communication about the game between Anet and players. Attempting to negate or suppress speech negates the purpose for which the forums were created. Much better to simply discuss the game.

Jski.6180:

Naekuh.7925:

Jski.6180:

Naekuh.7925:

I just hope ESO and Wildstar doesnt follow the path Anet did, as i do see myself moving there as well, unless Anet decides to get off there high chair and actually sit with us, the player base.

ESO is already a major grind game for getting skill alone its at least 10hr for the first 10 level it speeds up a bit but your still looking at a major time gap. Wildstar is a raiding treadmill end game system where they will always be a new loot set to get to go after a new level of raid.

I think you have no idea what a grind or a treadmill is if you call what GW2 has as such. GW2 is the most casual mmorpg out there to date and i do not see how ESO and Wildstar with know events and time spend will be “better” if your main complainer for GW2 is what these 2 games use a lot.

How will it be any different then GW1?

Also Grinding treadmill, have you tried to farm for karma reciently?
Its extremely tiring and everything end game requires karma from Oby shards.

The only other option of getting Oby shards is though FOTM.
Have you played a lvl40+ Dredge map?
Why did they need to fix dredge? Why did they need to increase the spawn rates?
Have you also seen the loot tables on Fotm which is driving the entire community insane?

When i first started on the 3 day head starts, you didnt need to grind.
You eventually got everything you wanted over a much shorter time.
However now, you need to grind, or follow mindless World Events in large zergs.

The game has changed so much from launch, that its not aimed at people just coming in. I really feel sorry for the new people who want to get a legendary. They dont know how much more difficult it is to attain then it was even 6 months ago.

Anyhow i threw those games out as competition, not exclusions to the anti grind.
If i confused you in my statement i applogize, as those games never stated they were not a grind. However GW2 was stated by the creators to NOT be a grind, which it has now turned into.

Point by point.
GW1 was not an mmorpg it was a HUB game like MH it was not a true open world like a real mmorpg is. It also had no TP and or AH what ever you cair to call it so there was no need to be fearful of destroying an economically.

Next point:
There is no treadmill in GW2 for a real treadmill you need to have both better gear (that is a full higher set what in GW2 is more of a +1 systom then a full set higher) and you need stronger mobs that NEED the higher gear to kill (only thing close to that is fractals and you do not need a full set to run most of the max level fractals).

The grind as you call it is not a NEEDED one its more of a want grind even GW1 had a want grind. Player needs something to work for if that is looks then its going to be looks if its a +1 gear set that give nearly nothing over all then it will be a +1 set. The the thing about real mmorpg you must keep ppl playing as long as you can. GW1 did not need to do this because it was not an mmorpg nor did Anet think of it as an mmorpg.

Your saying its too hard? It should be running a level 40 event should be something that takes work to do and you should WANT to run it if you worked to get to that level. If your just doing it for the gear the lower levels give you far more for time spent and that how it should be. That what Fractals are for hard content for ppl who want it.

First few days no one knew what they where doing every thing seems great when no one knows what going on but once you work it out ppl find the “best” ways of running things but ppl get it stuck in there heads that the only way to run things is the “best” way not the “fun” way. You could run events how you want at any time but what your doing is ASKING for things to be such where ppl cant chose to play events the way they want to. I for one like doing events with new ppl the zerg as you call it to me is a hell of a lot better then solo farming and trying to compete with other ppl to it make you hate to see other ppl but in GW2 your better off playing with other ppl so you WANT to see and WANT to play with other ppl the ideal behind playing an mmorpg.

My point is that you are putting thous games out there as if they are going to be better but you seem to hate the main things behind though games so what your saying at the end of the day is you hate grind and treadmill that you think there is in GW2 but your ok with grind and treadmill in other games that more then likely you have not played and know next to nothing about.

Wow, just logged on to say I love this post! ^

There is no point in posting positive opinions on any message board, because the chronic attackers will bury anything positive in the vitriol.

I have com plaints, but I love this game. Don’t every expect forums to let you hear that.

Well First let me address some of the misconceptions people have about posters.

We’re not all curmudgeon. I post positive things about the hopes I have, about how I like what’s happening in CDI and their proposed future for the game all the time. I also post about what I think they should stop doing.

Second, some of us have stopped playing yes but it doesn’t mean we aren’t watching. I have friends who play I see the game on their computers while playing and I pay attention to what’s happening in the patches waiting for the day that the fundamental reasons why I stopped playing will be fixed.

And finally, the reasons why people have become sour is because they didn’t deliver on their promises. Loads of prelaunch (just before the betas ended) interviews had many statements on the direction of the game that completely changed 2 months after launch. Add to that more than a year of throwing out great suggestions in the sugggestions folder (things that would have easily fixed the inherent problems of the game because GASP they actually were problems years ago in other titles and solutions have already been hashed out that worked very well over the years) nerfs to classes that didn’t need nerfing in PVE while other classes were given even more power, the newly added ascended grind etc etc the list is long. Suffice it to say that we’re watching to see what happens next. The question as someone put it on one of the gamer news sites I frequent is can they redeem themselves in the eyes of their playerbase. Can they fix these problems and get us back. That’s why I come here.

If you want an honest opinion, go ask from these forums AND on gw2 subreddit. Take it all as one and form your own conclusions.

Why do you think a lot of devs post on gw2 subreddit more so than here? It’s because reddit is unfiltered and a lot less biased than here.

The game is still great. 3 unique game modes that can entertain you for hours on end. Many end-game goals to set yourself. Plenty of dyes to mess around with and make your toon unique.

People have been spoilt by this game. The lack of gear treadmill, grind and sub fee has truly gone to their heads. GW2 set a new benchmark in MMO quality, but people can’t see that. They see ascended armor/weapons and say “gear treadmill” when it isn’t (at least, not until another tier comes out that isn’t Legendary). They point to zerker meta ruining the game when it only applies to a small section of PvE (higher level dungeons). They say there’s a lack of build diversity, when there clearly isn’t (I just ran 3 different builds for 3 different roles on my elementalist in WvW tonight).

Eh, I play the game how I want to, and it’s very enjoyable.

Hex.6371:

I started playing Guild Wars 2 shortly before its release date. I bought my Digital Deluxe package and eagerly waited to log on, before being presented with a new interface that was foreign to me but elegantly designed and captivating as I was greeted and casually merged with players everywhere. I don’t know what made me lose interest so fast, and I remember enjoying my time with it but… I put it down, and now I want to pick it right back up.

The trouble is, I’ve been out of the loop. Overlooking people passing in and out of the game with their subtle opinions, but I’ve always heard the same thing.
“It was fun when it was first released, but <patch> ruined it and I couldn’t keep playing.” But now as I stare, once again updating my game as I prepare to give it another go, I wonder what actually was wrong with it, and I suppose there’s no better place to ask that kind of thing than at the source.

I assume most people reading this would be playing the game, would have been playing it for some time and have a view which is relatively strong in terms of the depth and integrity of its mechanics. I guess I need to just ask a question, with the background of my experience set in place…

What was so good about Guild Wars 2 when it first launched in comparison to now, why does everyone seem to be sour towards its updated content, and do I have a reason to be excited about sitting down and getting back into it?

I think it has more to do with the fact that more and more reverse-trolls use these forums because they never tire of showering contempt on the forum community as a whole. The amount of contemptuous trolling has most likely not really increased, but it may seem like it due to nearly every thread having one of these finger-wagging “self-appointed” forum moderators posting nonsense in them.

Raine.1394:

Ad hominem means “to the man”. That is, it addresses some aspect of the person arguing rather than the argument itself. For example it might dismiss someone by labeling them a ‘hater’ rather than addressing the issue they raise. It is resorted to when someone either runs out of intellectual gas or was never up to the task of rationally discussing an issue to begin with.

Actually, ad hominem, means several related things. In one case it means that an argument is rejected on the basis of irrelevant facts. The fact that the person you claimed was using mass ad hominem because he didn’t address what you claim is the actual argument does not make what he said an ad hominem. The OP asked said he came here for to ask questions from “the source” (meaning the forums). It isn’t an ad hominem because he chose to express his opinion on the OP’s motivation coming to the forum for his answers. The responder did address directly one of the OP’s statements.

Ad hominem also means to attack the character of the person he was addressing rather than address the issues of the OP. He did not attack the character of the OP. He expressed and opinion on one of the OP’s statements about the general bent of the posts on the forum due to a statement made by the OP.

Ad hominem also indicates that the person making the so-called ad hominem was appealing to prejudice rather than facts or intellect. This is also not true. It takes no great amount of investigation to see that all the forums are indeed riddled with negativity.

The person you addressed was stating an opinion based in fact directly addressing one of the OP’s statements. Not an ad hominem.

Raine.1394:

The device of inventing a ‘hate’ group is the same as inventing a “vocal minority”. It is intended to bolster one’s position and it actually indicates a basic insecurity with one’s argument. Logically, there is no “vocal minority” and no ‘hate groups’ on the forum. There are only voices and they are either in the minority or the majority. Anet moderation is very aggressive and addresses true ‘hate’ speech immediately.

No where does the person you address say that their is a “hate group” or “vocal minority” or make any indication of such. That is use of hyperbole on your part. The poster merely made an observation about the amount of hateful posts and lack of positive ones. He didn’t invent the “hate group”. You did.

Raine.1394:

It is far better to deal with arguments or issues rather than the character or motivations of those you argue with. The forums are for communication about the game between Anet and players. Attempting to negate or suppress speech negates the purpose for which the forums were created. Much better to simply discuss the game.

You are right. However, this is true only when arguments and issues are expressed in non-inflammatory and non-prejudicial ways. That clearly is not what happens on these forums in great extent.

it’s more the lack of updates that ruins the game

- after over a year, many of the game’s bugs are still present. like a bugged event NPC in Wayfarer that I reported in 2012 is still just as bugged as ever
- class balance passes are done only like 3 times a year and only offer relatively minor changes
- any problems that result from more underlying issues, like pathfinding and AI, get blown off as “oh no, we can’t fix that”, as though Arenanet no longer employs any programmers

stuff like that

The game right now is almost exactly the same as at launch, except for they neutered the elementalist.

There has been virtually no content added – one dungeon path got changed, one dragon event got broken, and they added fractals and southsun – but there’s nothing to do in southsun.

They also added incredible grind to get best in slot.

So, between launch and now, what you really have as changes is that some classes are incredibly stronger (warrior) and others are incredibly weak (ele) and yet others are still fighting the bugs that were present on release day (ranger).

For others posting in this thread – I used to be the happy optimistic poster. Possibly the biggest GW fanboy on the planet. I spent depressingly large amounts of money supporting Anet (coming close to $4000, all thing considered.) Now I’m one of the more negative posters. The change? Anet let me down.

Between the addition of gear grind when they advertised there would be none, the lack of new anything to do, and the incredibly stupid choice to not separate skill balance between PvP and PvE, I’ve lost faith.

I still want to love the game. They’ve just made it incredibly hard to do so.

stale.9785:

There has been virtually no content added – one dungeon path got changed, one dragon event got broken, and they added fractals and southsun – but there’s nothing to do in southsun.

What an absurd comment to make.

Vol.7601:

stale.9785:

There has been virtually no content added – one dungeon path got changed, one dragon event got broken, and they added fractals and southsun – but there’s nothing to do in southsun.

What an absurd comment to make.

How it is absurd? It’s the objective truth. There has been no permanent content. Take someone who played in September of release, but hasn’t come back till today, and what are we going to show him?

“There’s been a lot of living story updates, but there’s nothing to show for it, and you can’t replay them.” Otherwise, there’s fractals and Southsun. That’s it.

stale.9785:

Vol.7601:

stale.9785:

There has been virtually no content added – one dungeon path got changed, one dragon event got broken, and they added fractals and southsun – but there’s nothing to do in southsun.

What an absurd comment to make.

How it is absurd? It’s the objective truth. There has been no permanent content. Take someone who played in September of release, but hasn’t come back till today, and what are we going to show him?

“There’s been a lot of living story updates, but there’s nothing to show for it, and you can’t replay them.” Otherwise, there’s fractals and Southsun. That’s it.

You could argue that it’s a good thing. You’re not rushing to catch up on a lot of content, which is one of the factors stopping me from going back to many MMORPGs. You can hop into the current living story without skipping a beat

stale.9785:

Vol.7601:

stale.9785:

There has been virtually no content added – one dungeon path got changed, one dragon event got broken, and they added fractals and southsun – but there’s nothing to do in southsun.

What an absurd comment to make.

How it is absurd? It’s the objective truth. There has been no permanent content. Take someone who played in September of release, but hasn’t come back till today, and what are we going to show him?

“There’s been a lot of living story updates, but there’s nothing to show for it, and you can’t replay them.” Otherwise, there’s fractals and Southsun. That’s it.

Twilight Assault Dungeon Path (this wasnt “changing” a path – T Assault is an awesome addition to the game for people wanting a real dungeon experience. forward up needed to be done away with)

Fractals (with a major addition to them a few months ago)

New sPvP maps (multiple)

Vexa’s Lab

Southsun

New healing skills (tiny addition, but new none the less)

Karka Queen world boss

Tequatl (major addition – raid style boss – very important to many people)

Triple Threat Worm World Boss

New Minigames (all but Kegbrawl are new since launch – and add moa racing to this)

Guild Missions (huge addition for guilds)

New Champions in Kessex Hills

New Jumping Puzzles (Skipping Stones, Hidden Garden and Not So Secret)

New World Dynamic Events (toxic stalks, scarlet zone events)

Ascended Weapons/Armor

WvW progression system/rewards

Edge of the Mists WvW map

Cosmetic fun additions such as PvP finishers, various tonics, minis, etc

And these are just off the top of my head. An argument could be made that most of the holiday stuff is permanent (or at least semi-permanent) as well since most of it will be cycling back around every year.