Asura represent, bookah.
Guild Wars 2 and Failure
Haters and fan boys are going to infest every game. The real problem is the people who give them the attention they desire.
The best thing to do is use the forums to discuss issues and how they can be resolved in the future to improve the game. Instead of arguing if the game is good or bad, discuss how it can be better and ignore the trolls.
Posting in pointless thread
Posting below pointless post
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
Someone say pointless? I love that show!
Posting should earn me more points! (starts complaint thread)
Penny Royalty – Level 80 Guardian
Raingarde – Level 80 Necromancer
Raingarde – Level 80 Necromancer
Just posting here
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors
Not surprisingly, I agree with the OP. Saying a game has “failed” is not constructive. Claiming a game doesn’t live up to it’s manifesto (particularly when you try to use language as a weapon instead of a tool), is not constructive.
The game exists as it is and, apparently, there are people who like it this way.
If you make a post saying that you should be able to wear your costumes all the time (at least in PvE), I’ll agree with that. It’s a valid criticism.
If you say that choosing to tell the story of Destiny’s Edge through the dungeons is quite possibly a poor design choice, I’d agree with you, based on the point that most people don’t end up doing dungeons, even story dungeons, in order.
If you say that RNG boxes are bad design because they leave people with a bad taste in their mouths, I’d agree with you. I think it’s long term bad for the game.
But if you say the game is dying, or failing or going to die because it doesn’t have gear grind, I’m going to disagree.
Does that make me a fan boy?
People try to prove their point by taking words out of context, by throwing words around the exaggerate situations, or they’re just trolling because they think it’s funny and they like to annoy perceived fan boys.
I have an idea. Why not stick to actual, pertinent facts, instead of exaggerating or making stuff up completely.
Hyperbole doesn’t win arguments….it weakens them.
If you really want to help the game, don’t use it to try to make a point.
If you say that GW2 failed, you’re either trolling, you have an awkward perception of the word failure, or you’ve accustomed yourself into believing it’s failed.
In other words, “if you disagree with me you are a troll, no matter what you have to say”.
Right. I wish we could downvote posts.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
If you say that GW2 failed, you’re either trolling, you have an awkward perception of the word failure, or you’ve accustomed yourself into believing it’s failed.
In other words, “if you disagree with me you are a troll, no matter what you have to say”.
Right. I wish we could downvote posts.
That isn’t what he said. He said it’s possible that a person could be trolling, or that they have a point of view he feels is skewed, which ultimately is his opinion.
Reading comprehension.
Haters and fan boys are going to infest every game. The real problem is the people who give them the attention they desire.
The best thing to do is use the forums to discuss issues and how they can be resolved in the future to improve the game. Instead of arguing if the game is good or bad, discuss how it can be better and ignore the trolls.
One person’s issue may be another person’s “what the hell are you talking about!” though. With the number of people who inhabit the internet that like to share their least opinion it makes it difficult to avoid arguments.
And as for the secondary topic running through this thread: just about all threads in a gaming forum are pointless.
Fire up the Hyperbowl ma, we’re going to town!
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
If you say that GW2 failed, you’re either trolling, you have an awkward perception of the word failure, or you’ve accustomed yourself into believing it’s failed.
In other words, “if you disagree with me you are a troll, no matter what you have to say”.
Right. I wish we could downvote posts.
That isn’t what he said. He said it’s possible that a person could be trolling, or that they have a point of view he feels is skewed, which ultimately is his opinion.
Reading comprehension.
Irrelevant. His point is that anyone who thinks differently than him is wrong without even trying to listen to the different opinions.
Ironically, a hater could say the same thing: “If you think Guild Wars 2 has not failed, you are wrong, no matter what you have to say”. It would be equally ridiculous, and equally pointless.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
I wouldn’t say GW2 failed, IMHO skills being tied to types of weapon we use and the trait system is hurting GW2 allot by not having true build diversity like we had in GW1.
Game Security Lead “Closing this thread,
your account,and your 384 other accounts”
GG Anet
your account,and your 384 other accounts”
GG Anet
I don’t think the Game failed…not yet, i don’t think its doing amazingly either.
I just feel saddened that this company brought out such a great, innovative and amazing first game and really (in my opinion) brought out a mediocre second version then systematically destroyed it with nerfs and poor content.
I hope GW2 gets better over time, i just am not seeing it..
Irrelevant. His point is that anyone who thinks differently than him is wrong .
In the case of the specifically called out statement “Guild Wars 2 has failed” he is exactly right about that. The game still has many, many players, sold over two million copies, and continues to turn a profit. Regardless of what you may personally think about recent design decisions or your interpretation of the manifesto Guild Wars 2 has not failed. Indeed it has proven to be rather successful.
Just because a given player or even group of players may not like it doesn’t mean it has failed. That is a truth I see a lot of WoW players struggling with. (No I didn’t just call you a WoW fanboy; I was merely stating an observation based on admittedly limited exposure to the mentioned demographic. Calm down.)
Regardless of what you may personally think about recent design decisions or your interpretation of the manifesto Guild Wars 2 has not failed. Indeed it has proven to be rather successful.
Depends of your definition of failure. Don’t you think it’s viable to gauge Guild Wars 2’s success (of lack of success) based on if the game is fun or not?
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Regardless of what you may personally think about recent design decisions or your interpretation of the manifesto Guild Wars 2 has not failed. Indeed it has proven to be rather successful.
Depends of your definition of failure. Don’t you think it’s viable to gauge Guild Wars 2’s success (of lack of success) based on if the game is fun or not?
No.
Success or failure is an objective thing. It is fact decided by nothing more than if the game continues to profit and exist. Conversely fun is entirely subjective, it varies from person to person, and indeed from moment to moment. In fact I still very much find Guild Wars 2 to be fun. Much more fun than any other MMO I’ve played, and I know for a fact that I am not the only one who thinks this.
By you stating the game has failed because it is no longer fun, you basically cast your opinion as having the same objective value as fact, and likewise devalue the opinions of others who may disagree with you. That is the very essence of arrogance, and a cornerstone of trolling. And unintentional trolling is still trolling.
Regardless of what you may personally think about recent design decisions or your interpretation of the manifesto Guild Wars 2 has not failed. Indeed it has proven to be rather successful.
Depends of your definition of failure. Don’t you think it’s viable to gauge Guild Wars 2’s success (of lack of success) based on if the game is fun or not?
No.
Success or failure is an objective thing.
ArenaNet disagrees with you, as seen on the blog post Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on how ArenaNet Measures Success.
Do notice I asked the question knowing your answer, just to point how ArenaNet itself has asked us to consider other ways in which we can measure the success of a MMO.
Now, if you want to report ArenaNet for trolling, be my guest.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Regardless of what you may personally think about recent design decisions or your interpretation of the manifesto Guild Wars 2 has not failed. Indeed it has proven to be rather successful.
Depends of your definition of failure. Don’t you think it’s viable to gauge Guild Wars 2’s success (of lack of success) based on if the game is fun or not?
No.
Success or failure is an objective thing.
ArenaNet disagrees with you, as seen on the blog post Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on how ArenaNet Measures Success.
Do notice I asked the question knowing your answer, just to point how ArenaNet itself has asked us to consider other ways in which we can measure the success of a MMO.
Now, if you want to report ArenaNet for trolling, be my guest.
Well in the past I have called out certain members of the GW2 community staff as liars and questioned the validity and motivations of Colin himself on occasion, so don’t think that is beyond me.
That said you are now failing to grasp context. With the established goal of being a fun game the dialog shifts from absolutes to popular vote. When dealing with success or failure of subjective elements you need only look to the target audience and gather votes. In this way the success or failure of Guild Wars 2 is decided democratically, and while I have no hard data to offer, the fact that the game does continue to thrive leads me to believe that the majority of players (Meaning all players, not just the relatively small minority who posts on the forums one way or the other) do find the game fun or otherwise engaging.
So yeah, even by changing the context of the discussion the result has not changed; Guild Wars 2 has not failed.
Looking around at the thousands of players I see every day I’d say the game is a smashing success.
Is this the correct place to pointless postings?
Is this the correct place to pointless postings?
Seeing as how your post made it through I’d imagine its fine.
When dealing with success or failure of subjective elements you need only look to the target audience and gather votes. In this way the success or failure of Guild Wars 2 is decided democratically, and while I have no hard data to offer, the fact that the game does continue to thrive leads me to believe that the majority of players (Meaning all players, not just the relatively small minority who posts on the forums one way or the other) do find the game fun or otherwise engaging
Following similar patterns of previous MMO releases (how most of them had a lot of subscribers in the first few months, and lost most of them later), I somehow doubt we could say that the majority of those who bought and played GW2 continue to play. In fact, following similar patterns of previous MMO releases would hint that a large number of players left the game a bit before Fractals of the Mists was introduced.
Regardless, though, your argument has a flaw – you are trying to define failure or success democratically, as in, considering the population as a whole. When we consider that yes, we can gauge success or failure based on something subjective, we open the door to an interesting statement:
To me, Guild Wars 2 has failed.
Now, is that wrong?
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
When dealing with success or failure of subjective elements you need only look to the target audience and gather votes. In this way the success or failure of Guild Wars 2 is decided democratically, and while I have no hard data to offer, the fact that the game does continue to thrive leads me to believe that the majority of players (Meaning all players, not just the relatively small minority who posts on the forums one way or the other) do find the game fun or otherwise engaging
Following similar patterns of previous MMO releases (how most of them had a lot of subscribers in the first few months, and lost most of them later), I somehow doubt we could say that the majority of those who bought and played GW2 continue to play. In fact, following similar patterns of previous MMO releases would hint that a large number of players left the game a bit before Fractals of the Mists was introduced.
Regardless, though, your argument has a flaw – you are trying to define failure or success democratically, as in, considering the population as a whole. When we consider that yes, we can gauge success or failure based on something subjective, we open the door to an interesting statement:
To me, Guild Wars 2 has failed.
Now, is that wrong?
As long as you keep it to yourself; no. However as with all opinions the moment you say it as an absolute statement it becomes wrong.
“Arena Net and Guild Wars 2 have failed to provide a game I find fun.” = Acceptable.
“Arena Net and Guild Wars 2 have failed.” = Unacceptable. False information.
Grammar and context are important when communicating, as is speaking in complete thoughts. For example stopping the above sentence half way through creates a very different statement with very different context, and alters it from an acceptable statement of opinion to an objectively wrong absolute statement. Don’t be lazy; if you’re speaking about your own opinions you really do have to say so.
And no, I’m not a fanboy. I have a multitude of problems with this game. But I still like the game for what it is.
I like you for this. I didn’t even read the rest of your post.
I always felt that this is exactly where I stood on this game. It’s always fascinating to be attacked for being a fanboy when I defend something I enjoy about the game, and then labelled as a hater when I want to discuss something I dislike.
The reason I do continue to spend my time posting, aside from the fact that I can do it during downtime at work, is that I feel like ANet really does listen to their players, whether people believe it or not. I really don’t want the loudest players to be the only voices – whether I agree with them or not.
Don’t be lazy; if you’re speaking about your own opinions you really do have to say so.
Isn’t it kinda of obvious that almost all the time people here are talking about their opinions?
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Don’t be lazy; if you’re speaking about your own opinions you really do have to say so.
Isn’t it kinda of obvious that almost all the time people here are talking about their opinions?
Given the sheer number of people echoing “GW2 needs X” or “GW2 is dying” threads while simultaneously attacking anyone who dares defend the game and calling them nothing but fanboys? No, it isn’t. You can claim you’re talking about your opinions all you want, but as soon as you start attacking people for disagreeing you’ve crossed the line and we’re not dealing with opinions anymore, we’re dealing with beliefs.
And as the word belief implies absolute commitment to an idea or ideal, they are equivalent to manufactured facts. They’re not facts; but the people who hold them defend them as such. That corrupts the discussion and prevents it from every being anything more than an argument. On the internet, where we all communicate with text and seek out communities and sub-communities of like-minded people to agree with us, the line between opinion, belief, and fact can be easily forgotten. And sometimes it is important to specifically say you’re stating an opinion not to inform others, but to remind yourself.
When dealing with success or failure of subjective elements you need only look to the target audience and gather votes. In this way the success or failure of Guild Wars 2 is decided democratically, and while I have no hard data to offer, the fact that the game does continue to thrive leads me to believe that the majority of players (Meaning all players, not just the relatively small minority who posts on the forums one way or the other) do find the game fun or otherwise engaging
Following similar patterns of previous MMO releases (how most of them had a lot of subscribers in the first few months, and lost most of them later), I somehow doubt we could say that the majority of those who bought and played GW2 continue to play. In fact, following similar patterns of previous MMO releases would hint that a large number of players left the game a bit before Fractals of the Mists was introduced.
Regardless, though, your argument has a flaw – you are trying to define failure or success democratically, as in, considering the population as a whole. When we consider that yes, we can gauge success or failure based on something subjective, we open the door to an interesting statement:
To me, Guild Wars 2 has failed.
Now, is that wrong?
What you’re saying is wrong without adding more context.
To me, Guild Wars 2 has failed in it’s ability to entertain is fine. It’s failed is not fine because you’re using a word that has a definition already that doesn’t jibe with what you’re saying.
It’s simply inflammatory for no reason at all.
The only place GW2 has failed is in the heads of those complaining and not offering constructive criticism. I have my reservations on many areas of the game but it has far from failed.
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger
This is a game but also a business. Since it is a business the definition of failure that matters is if it is profitable. When a game is released it has about 3 months to hit target numbers, these numbers would vary from game to game. GW2 hit those targets and exceeded them. At the next interval the game needs to increase revenue through whatever means, again GW2 made those targets.
This can be seen by first there where no layoffs or ‘re-organizations’ after 6 months. Second they are still looking for new staff. And more importantly since it is a public company their own published profit broken down by division. As long as the targets are met this game is a long way from a failure.
Since this is a game and sold purely on entertainment if people are not interested, not telling friends, and not buying things with outside money it will not meet its targets. If you want to be a doomsayer that is fine but realize you will be ignored by the company since the internet and specifically game forums are full of the same thing.
(edited by Yargesh.4965)
The game has failed to entertain me as much as GW1, wow and Eve have. It doesn’t have that long lasting appeal many other mmos have given me.
Overall the game didn’t meet my high expectations, but was definitely worth the $60, even though everyone I know stopped playing shortly after launch. I couldn’t imagine myself putting many more hours into the game (350 now), as I’ve done just about everything in game and I’m getting really bored of doing the same events over and over again.
I guess fun pve with fun pvp is needed to keep me interested, unfortunately pvp in gw2 is possibly the worst I have played. I think the game is very niche and will always have a good sized community that loves it to death though.
Posted from phone, so is a bit sloppy.