Guild Wars 2

Just to establish something – I’ve played both games extensively. I like both. I enjoy both, and Guild Wars 2 is by far the better game overall, but there are a few lessons that could be learned from TSW to improve Guild Wars 2.

The Story and Characters of The Secret World are infinitely more interesting.

Even minor quest npcs express more personality in their brief dialogues than any character in Guild Wars 2 (with the possible exceptions of the mentors) does in their entire lifespan.

Funcom’s writing team is on a whole different level. Whoever did the dialogue for the game put just about every other MMO writing team to shame. And that’s unfortunate. Arenanet’s writing staff is talented. It just seems so underutilized. Ambient dialogue in Guild Wars 2 is excellent, but the personal story is just bad.

The Skill System of TSW is more free form

Oh, Guild Wars 2 has better combat. I like the fluid mobility of it. I like the lack of a trinity more than anything, but about the time you hit level 40, you’ve unlocked every skill you’ll use. Changing builds is a chore involving a travel time to respec and a farm for compatible gear. Not that you need to change builds – most professions have 2-3 viable builds maybe. Even if this wasn’t true, there is a general lack of variety in Guild Wars 2 build options because of the weapon system and the lack of weapons for that system – the Warrior being the only profession with a “good” weapon variety.

In The Secret World, your build is a combination of 7 skills and 7 passives from 2 weapons of your choice (consider a weapon to be equivalent to a class, as TSW has no classes and each weapon is a very different playstyle). You can eventually unlock every skill and trait on your character, allowing you to change your build at any moment. Sound familiar? Yes. TSW is closer to Guild Wars 1’s excellent skill system than Guild Wars 2 is.

Why the step down? I don’t know. The largest problem with Guild Wars 2, IMO, is the lack of build variety and the lack of convenience in swapping builds. It’s unfortunate, but the best and most defining mechanic of the first game was entirely scrapped for a new system that can make even a great combat system grow dull simply due to repetition.

Dungeon Design in TSW is (generally) better

Yes, I know Guild Wars 2 dungeons are being redesigned eventually, but it baffles me that most boss fights boil down to being bullet sponges with one-shot mechanics. There are exceptions, of course. Fractals was very well done, but most dungeons aren’t up to par.

The game needs boss fights with actual mechanics behind them – not insta-gibbers with enough hp to make you fall asleep at the keyboard.

That’s about all I have to say on the subject. Overall, Guild Wars 2 is an amazing game in almost every aspect, but it just falls so very short in a few aspects – aspects that an otherwise mediocre game by a mediocre development team managed to provide proper examples of.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Just to establish something – I’ve played both games extensively. I like both. I enjoy both, and Guild Wars 2 is by far the better game overall, but there are a few lessons that could be learned from TSW to improve Guild Wars 2.

The Story and Characters of The Secret World are infinitely more interesting.

Even minor quest npcs express more personality in their brief dialogues than any character in Guild Wars 2 (with the possible exceptions of the mentors) does in their entire lifespan.

Funcom’s writing team is on a whole different level. Whoever did the dialogue for the game put just about every other MMO writing team to shame. And that’s unfortunate. Arenanet’s writing staff is talented. It just seems so underutilized. Ambient dialogue in Guild Wars 2 is excellent, but the personal story is just bad.

The Skill System of TSW is more free form

Oh, Guild Wars 2 has better combat. I like the fluid mobility of it. I like the lack of a trinity more than anything, but about the time you hit level 40, you’ve unlocked every skill you’ll use. Changing builds is a chore involving a travel time to respec and a farm for compatible gear. Not that you need to change builds – most professions have 2-3 viable builds maybe. Even if this wasn’t true, there is a general lack of variety in Guild Wars 2 build options because of the weapon system and the lack of weapons for that system – the Warrior being the only profession with a “good” weapon variety.

In The Secret World, your build is a combination of 7 skills and 7 passives from 2 weapons of your choice (consider a weapon to be equivalent to a class, as TSW has no classes and each weapon is a very different playstyle). You can eventually unlock every skill and trait on your character, allowing you to change your build at any moment. Sound familiar? Yes. TSW is closer to Guild Wars 1’s excellent skill system than Guild Wars 2 is.

Why the step down? I don’t know. The largest problem with Guild Wars 2, IMO, is the lack of build variety and the lack of convenience in swapping builds. It’s unfortunate, but the best and most defining mechanic of the first game was entirely scrapped for a new system that can make even a great combat system grow dull simply due to repetition.

Dungeon Design in TSW is (generally) better

Yes, I know Guild Wars 2 dungeons are being redesigned eventually, but it baffles me that most boss fights boil down to being bullet sponges with one-shot mechanics. There are exceptions, of course. Fractals was very well done, but most dungeons aren’t up to par.

The game needs boss fights with actual mechanics behind them – not insta-gibbers with enough hp to make you fall asleep at the keyboard.

That’s about all I have to say on the subject. Overall, Guild Wars 2 is an amazing game in almost every aspect, but it just falls so very short in a few aspects – aspects that an otherwise mediocre game by a mediocre development team managed to provide proper examples of.

From what I read of the reviews about Secret World that combat system your talking about isn’t that exciting. If you have a shotgun your stuck as a tank, machine gun dps and build combinations are predictable as almost everyone in the entire game plays their role the same.

This is just the reviews I never wanted to pay of sub for a game with a review like that so I can not say.

you never speak in TSW
NEVER

And as long as the lessons learnt from TSW remain the positive things, yeah no biggie.

But if their biggest lesson was to take what TSW does with “level progression” into GEAR GRINDING, then hell no.

The secret world is horrible. Tried it and deleted it from my hd after playing it for an hour lol.

Isn’t that an MMO about urban legends?
I’m only interested in medevial/fantasy MMOs

I honestly really enjoyed the questing system and general experience of TSW. The whole looking up clues and things was pretty neat, though you can look up guides to like everything now.

Sadly the combat left a lot to be desired. Like…a lot (the dodge system and movement during combat was just not that fluid and felt terribly awkward). The “class” system was interesting, if a little confusing for me at first. I will agree there is a ton of variety here, but there is also a ton of room to screw up a build.

I found that even attempting to be a pure on “mage” as solo was way too hard for its own good. If you were soloing, going melee/ranged was pretty much mandatory. Or if you go “mage” was like blood/assault rifle. I can’t say I know much but the 3 months I tried it (and I enjoyed it might I add) it kind of felt I was being pigeon-holed to cookie cutter builds regardless of all the choices.

Personally I kind of prefer GW2 system because there is less room for mistakes. The game shouldn’t really punish you for wanting to wield a certain weapon or play a certain way. Granted for most classes something is always going to be better/preferred.

Katreyn.4218:

I honestly really enjoyed the questing system and general experience of TSW. The whole looking up clues and things was pretty neat, though you can look up guides to like everything now.

Sadly the combat left a lot to be desired. Like…a lot (the dodge system and movement during combat was just not that fluid and felt terribly awkward). The “class” system was interesting, if a little confusing for me at first. I will agree there is a ton of variety here, but there is also a ton of room to screw up a build.

I found that even attempting to be a pure on “mage” as solo was way too hard for its own good. If you were soloing, going melee/ranged was pretty much mandatory. Or if you go “mage” was like blood/assault rifle. I can’t say I know much but the 3 months I tried it (and I enjoyed it might I add) it kind of felt I was being pigeon-holed to cookie cutter builds regardless of all the choices.

Personally I kind of prefer GW2 system because there is less room for mistakes. The game shouldn’t really punish you for wanting to wield a certain weapon or play a certain way. Granted for most classes something is always going to be better/preferred.

And the jumping. Holy crap can you get more default with the jumping animation :|

Rizzy.8293:

And the jumping. Holy crap can you get more default with the jumping animation :|

Oh yeah…don’t remind me of the animations. >.>

I liked a lot of what I saw in TSW. I thought it was a good game. In fact, if it weren’t for Guild Wars 2, it would probably be my MMO of choice.

The OP makes some very good points about what Guild Wars 2 can learn from TSW, but there are also issues that TSW had which put a monkey wrench into things.

For one thing, though the voice acting is very good and the writing is superb in TSW, the fact that they chose not to voice your character meant most things in the game were monologues. This was a deal breaker for me. It really bothered me that my character was completely mute. I didn’t have conversations, I just listened to people.

It also pays to remember that TSW is written for adults not teens and the dialogue can be a lot grittier. There’s plenty of cursing, there’s references to sex, all sorts of things that writers in Guild Wars 2 can’t refer too. That kind of limitation does make it harder to make the world feel "real’. At least for me. I sorta wish GW 2 wasn’t a teen game so I could feel like I was in an actual world. There’s too much goody two shoes in my character for my taste.

But one thing that I disliked most about TSW was the skill system. I’ve already played Guild Wars 1 which had a very cool skill system, and the last thing I want to see in Guild Wars 2 is build wars. I really don’t want a game that I have to spend all my time figuring out a build, rather than playing. Or go onto a site and get the build of the month. There’s already a bit of that in Guild Wars 2, but that’s the trade off.

IN Guild Wars 1, there were a whole lot of people who insisted you use the build of the month. Sabway or whatever it was that month. And if you didn’t, well good luck finding a group for the Underworld.

I’m not saying complexity is inherently bad, but the idea of complex builds is a tricky one. I’d rather have less elitism and more the ability to play the way I wanted to.

Forgot to mention…the one thing I really liked about TSW that Guild Wars 2 is mostly lacking, is the longer, more involved quest chains. This game could do with a few of those.

Vayne.8563:

I liked a lot of what I saw in TSW. I thought it was a good game. In fact, if it weren’t for Guild Wars 2, it would probably be my MMO of choice.

The OP makes some very good points about what Guild Wars 2 can learn from TSW, but there are also issues that TSW had which put a monkey wrench into things.

For one thing, though the voice acting is very good and the writing is superb in TSW, the fact that they chose not to voice your character meant most things in the game were monologues. This was a deal breaker for me. It really bothered me that my character was completely mute. I didn’t have conversations, I just listened to people.

It also pays to remember that TSW is written for adults not teens and the dialogue can be a lot grittier. There’s plenty of cursing, there’s references to sex, all sorts of things that writers in Guild Wars 2 can’t refer too. That kind of limitation does make it harder to make the world feel "real’. At least for me. I sorta wish GW 2 wasn’t a teen game so I could feel like I was in an actual world. There’s too much goody two shoes in my character for my taste.

But one thing that I disliked most about TSW was the skill system. I’ve already played Guild Wars 1 which had a very cool skill system, and the last thing I want to see in Guild Wars 2 is build wars. I really don’t want a game that I have to spend all my time figuring out a build, rather than playing. Or go onto a site and get the build of the month. There’s already a bit of that in Guild Wars 2, but that’s the trade off.

IN Guild Wars 1, there were a whole lot of people who insisted you use the build of the month. Sabway or whatever it was that month. And if you didn’t, well good luck finding a group for the Underworld.

I’m not saying complexity is inherently bad, but the idea of complex builds is a tricky one. I’d rather have less elitism and more the ability to play the way I wanted to.

The mute thing didnt bother as much, I thought well, atleast I dont have to level up, just gotta unlock my abilities and be more awesome.

WRONG

Bloody outright lies they were.

We dont have levels you can play as you want.

B.S what they shoulda said was, we dont use the conventional leveling methods, our leveling system is based on your gear’s quality level.

So say you have items that are of quality level 4, that means you’re QL4, in some dungeons its best to be QL5 before you can go into those, so its best you farm for a bit for QL5 gear.

Really? their idea of leveling up is gear grinding, I detest gear grinding.

It’s one thing TSW should learn from GW2 is to do away with QL and have gear become standardized qualities from Normal, Magical, Exotic each providing a marginal increase to stats so you’re not over powered just because your gear is better.

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

I liked a lot of what I saw in TSW. I thought it was a good game. In fact, if it weren’t for Guild Wars 2, it would probably be my MMO of choice.

The OP makes some very good points about what Guild Wars 2 can learn from TSW, but there are also issues that TSW had which put a monkey wrench into things.

For one thing, though the voice acting is very good and the writing is superb in TSW, the fact that they chose not to voice your character meant most things in the game were monologues. This was a deal breaker for me. It really bothered me that my character was completely mute. I didn’t have conversations, I just listened to people.

It also pays to remember that TSW is written for adults not teens and the dialogue can be a lot grittier. There’s plenty of cursing, there’s references to sex, all sorts of things that writers in Guild Wars 2 can’t refer too. That kind of limitation does make it harder to make the world feel "real’. At least for me. I sorta wish GW 2 wasn’t a teen game so I could feel like I was in an actual world. There’s too much goody two shoes in my character for my taste.

But one thing that I disliked most about TSW was the skill system. I’ve already played Guild Wars 1 which had a very cool skill system, and the last thing I want to see in Guild Wars 2 is build wars. I really don’t want a game that I have to spend all my time figuring out a build, rather than playing. Or go onto a site and get the build of the month. There’s already a bit of that in Guild Wars 2, but that’s the trade off.

IN Guild Wars 1, there were a whole lot of people who insisted you use the build of the month. Sabway or whatever it was that month. And if you didn’t, well good luck finding a group for the Underworld.

I’m not saying complexity is inherently bad, but the idea of complex builds is a tricky one. I’d rather have less elitism and more the ability to play the way I wanted to.

The mute thing didnt bother as much, I thought well, atleast I dont have to level up, just gotta unlock my abilities and be more awesome.

WRONG

Bloody outright lies they were.

We dont have levels you can play as you want.

B.S what they shoulda said was, we dont use the conventional leveling methods, our leveling system is based on your gear’s quality level.

So say you have items that are of quality level 4, that means you’re QL4, in some dungeons its best to be QL5 before you can go into those, so its best you farm for a bit for QL5 gear.

Really? their idea of leveling up is gear grinding, I detest gear grinding.

It’s one thing TSW should learn from GW2 is to do away with QL and have gear become standardized qualities from Normal, Magical, Exotic each providing a marginal increase to stats so you’re not over powered just because your gear is better.

I agree, with this. They did have levels, they just didn’t call them levels. That was one of the things that bothered me most about the game. If it was an experience truly devoid of leveling it would have been a lot better. I definitely felt they’d misled me by saying there were no levels.

I don’t need to play any other MMO to know that GW2 storyline dialogue is quite bad. It’s just so trite and cliche. And the mood of the dialogue (and accompanying voice acting) often feels completely inappropriate for the moment at hand.

People dying all around
Me: “We will avenge them.”

No fear, no confusion. I would have liked minor intimate details to add depth to the NPC interactions. Of course, there are some great moments, but I’m pretty unimpressed, over all.

TSW did have amazing story, and regardless of the non-speaking player character, GW2 could have learned a great deal from TSW with regard to story. The combat was uninspiring. The resource builder – resource expender mechanic was very restrictive imo. The build mechanics were excessively complicated and tedious. Talk about grinding, you might need to grind a lot to get access to a skill deep in a tree that you have no other interest in. Also, Vayne’s comments about cookie cutter builds and build wars was well taken. When it came down to it, there were not that many good builds. Also, there was a lot of skill bloat, just as with GW1. GW2 may have a shallow skill system, but it does not have dozens of redundant skills that are almost the same, but which have to be purchased to get to the good ones.

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

I liked a lot of what I saw in TSW. I thought it was a good game. In fact, if it weren’t for Guild Wars 2, it would probably be my MMO of choice.

The OP makes some very good points about what Guild Wars 2 can learn from TSW, but there are also issues that TSW had which put a monkey wrench into things.

For one thing, though the voice acting is very good and the writing is superb in TSW, the fact that they chose not to voice your character meant most things in the game were monologues. This was a deal breaker for me. It really bothered me that my character was completely mute. I didn’t have conversations, I just listened to people.

It also pays to remember that TSW is written for adults not teens and the dialogue can be a lot grittier. There’s plenty of cursing, there’s references to sex, all sorts of things that writers in Guild Wars 2 can’t refer too. That kind of limitation does make it harder to make the world feel "real’. At least for me. I sorta wish GW 2 wasn’t a teen game so I could feel like I was in an actual world. There’s too much goody two shoes in my character for my taste.

But one thing that I disliked most about TSW was the skill system. I’ve already played Guild Wars 1 which had a very cool skill system, and the last thing I want to see in Guild Wars 2 is build wars. I really don’t want a game that I have to spend all my time figuring out a build, rather than playing. Or go onto a site and get the build of the month. There’s already a bit of that in Guild Wars 2, but that’s the trade off.

IN Guild Wars 1, there were a whole lot of people who insisted you use the build of the month. Sabway or whatever it was that month. And if you didn’t, well good luck finding a group for the Underworld.

I’m not saying complexity is inherently bad, but the idea of complex builds is a tricky one. I’d rather have less elitism and more the ability to play the way I wanted to.

The mute thing didnt bother as much, I thought well, atleast I dont have to level up, just gotta unlock my abilities and be more awesome.

WRONG

Bloody outright lies they were.

We dont have levels you can play as you want.

B.S what they shoulda said was, we dont use the conventional leveling methods, our leveling system is based on your gear’s quality level.

So say you have items that are of quality level 4, that means you’re QL4, in some dungeons its best to be QL5 before you can go into those, so its best you farm for a bit for QL5 gear.

Really? their idea of leveling up is gear grinding, I detest gear grinding.

It’s one thing TSW should learn from GW2 is to do away with QL and have gear become standardized qualities from Normal, Magical, Exotic each providing a marginal increase to stats so you’re not over powered just because your gear is better.

I get that. The purpose of this thread was to pull good ideas from a competitor to shape the already better game. Guild Wars 2 requires far less improvement than TSW (or any competitor) does to reach its potential, IMO.

The Secret World’s problem is that, despite its claims and goals, it’s so traditional and has some of the worst gear grinding, travelling, bugs, animations, and enemy design I’ve ever seen (such as the Ak’ab, which are an obnoxious pain in the kitten to deal with). Despite this, I my experience with the game has been solid because of the things it does very well – the story, despite your mute Link wannabe of a character… the build variety, even if player elitism and the desire to min/max places an unintended but inevitable limit on it … dungeon bosses that don’t kill you through boredom.

It is because Guild Wars 2 is already so good and because it has so much potential that I would love to see it take an example from its competitors – AND GUILD WARS 1, FOR THAT MATTER – in the areas that they happened to perform exceptionally well in.

I look at my character and see a huge lack of options, when I fondly remembered being able to do almost anything in Guild Wars 1. I look at the story and think of a million and a half ways that it could be better. I spend 5-10 minutes wailing on the same boss that does the same bland strategy the entire time and think to myself “God, this might actually be fun if the boss had 75% less health.”

It’s like the game is just a few common sense steps from being the best game ever made, and that just irks me more than anything.

Most games can learn from other games to a greater or lesser extent; Guild Wars 2’s “personal” story (lol) was decent by MMO standards, but kind of tanked during the second half. It started out personal and decently interesting, but then it very quickly became all the same. They should have built it more like the first half.

Also, a story can be emotional and have a certain air of “grit” without needing to take it to adult levels. I mean you have all sorts of books, movies, and games out there that do it all the time; designed for kids, but still have a darker grittier undertone that adults follow along with even. It’s not that difficult…

Also, we need an official combat mode option…

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

I liked a lot of what I saw in TSW. I thought it was a good game. In fact, if it weren’t for Guild Wars 2, it would probably be my MMO of choice.

The OP makes some very good points about what Guild Wars 2 can learn from TSW, but there are also issues that TSW had which put a monkey wrench into things.

For one thing, though the voice acting is very good and the writing is superb in TSW, the fact that they chose not to voice your character meant most things in the game were monologues. This was a deal breaker for me. It really bothered me that my character was completely mute. I didn’t have conversations, I just listened to people.

It also pays to remember that TSW is written for adults not teens and the dialogue can be a lot grittier. There’s plenty of cursing, there’s references to sex, all sorts of things that writers in Guild Wars 2 can’t refer too. That kind of limitation does make it harder to make the world feel "real’. At least for me. I sorta wish GW 2 wasn’t a teen game so I could feel like I was in an actual world. There’s too much goody two shoes in my character for my taste.

But one thing that I disliked most about TSW was the skill system. I’ve already played Guild Wars 1 which had a very cool skill system, and the last thing I want to see in Guild Wars 2 is build wars. I really don’t want a game that I have to spend all my time figuring out a build, rather than playing. Or go onto a site and get the build of the month. There’s already a bit of that in Guild Wars 2, but that’s the trade off.

IN Guild Wars 1, there were a whole lot of people who insisted you use the build of the month. Sabway or whatever it was that month. And if you didn’t, well good luck finding a group for the Underworld.

I’m not saying complexity is inherently bad, but the idea of complex builds is a tricky one. I’d rather have less elitism and more the ability to play the way I wanted to.

The mute thing didnt bother as much, I thought well, atleast I dont have to level up, just gotta unlock my abilities and be more awesome.

WRONG

Bloody outright lies they were.

We dont have levels you can play as you want.

B.S what they shoulda said was, we dont use the conventional leveling methods, our leveling system is based on your gear’s quality level.

So say you have items that are of quality level 4, that means you’re QL4, in some dungeons its best to be QL5 before you can go into those, so its best you farm for a bit for QL5 gear.

Really? their idea of leveling up is gear grinding, I detest gear grinding.

It’s one thing TSW should learn from GW2 is to do away with QL and have gear become standardized qualities from Normal, Magical, Exotic each providing a marginal increase to stats so you’re not over powered just because your gear is better.

I get that. The purpose of this thread was to pull good ideas from a competitor to shape the already better game. Guild Wars 2 requires far less improvement than TSW (or any competitor) does to reach its potential, IMO.

The Secret World’s problem is that, despite its claims and goals, it’s so traditional and has some of the worst gear grinding, travelling, bugs, animations, and enemy design I’ve ever seen (such as the Ak’ab, which are an obnoxious pain in the kitten to deal with). Despite this, I my experience with the game has been solid because of the things it does very well – the story, despite your mute Link wannabe of a character… the build variety, even if player elitism and the desire to min/max places an unintended but inevitable limit on it … dungeon bosses that don’t kill you through boredom.

It is because Guild Wars 2 is already so good and because it has so much potential that I would love to see it take an example from its competitors – AND GUILD WARS 1, FOR THAT MATTER – in the areas that they happened to perform exceptionally well in.

I look at my character and see a huge lack of options, when I fondly remembered being able to do almost anything in Guild Wars 1. I look at the story and think of a million and a half ways that it could be better. I spend 5-10 minutes wailing on the same boss that does the same bland strategy the entire time and think to myself “God, this might actually be fun if the boss had 75% less health.”

It’s like the game is just a few common sense steps from being the best game ever made, and that just irks me more than anything.

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

Rizzy.8293:

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

By looking at it’s ocean of dead servers, WoW is doing a fine job of that all by itself.

TSW doesn’t have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_7McRTFuA

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

Karizee.8076:

Rizzy.8293:

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

By looking at it’s ocean of dead servers, WoW is doing a fine job of that all by itself.

TSW doesn’t have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_7McRTFuA

You sure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0p8key1TQ

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

Rizzy.8293:

Karizee.8076:

Rizzy.8293:

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

By looking at it’s ocean of dead servers, WoW is doing a fine job of that all by itself.

TSW doesn’t have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_7McRTFuA

You sure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0p8key1TQ

Let’s not bring up TSW PvP. I chose not to discuss that BECAUSE it’s so much of a joke. There are literally whole servers dominated by one faction (one guild in fact) because noone wants to play that gear-dependent, poorly-designed mess.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Rizzy.8293:

Karizee.8076:

Rizzy.8293:

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

By looking at it’s ocean of dead servers, WoW is doing a fine job of that all by itself.

TSW doesn’t have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_7McRTFuA

You sure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0p8key1TQ

Let’s not bring up TSW PvP. I chose not to discuss that BECAUSE it’s so much of a joke. There are literally whole servers dominated by one faction (one guild in fact) because noone wants to play that gear-dependent, poorly-designed mess.

and wvwvw zerg fests is better? :|

Rizzy.8293:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Rizzy.8293:

Karizee.8076:

Rizzy.8293:

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

By looking at it’s ocean of dead servers, WoW is doing a fine job of that all by itself.

TSW doesn’t have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_7McRTFuA

You sure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0p8key1TQ

Let’s not bring up TSW PvP. I chose not to discuss that BECAUSE it’s so much of a joke. There are literally whole servers dominated by one faction (one guild in fact) because noone wants to play that gear-dependent, poorly-designed mess.

and wvwvw zerg fests is better? :|

A little bit, yeah.

At any rate, I come from a Guild Wars 1 and MOBA (LoL/DotA/Smite/etc.) background. If a game doesn’t offer structured pvp that is based on skill rather than gear, then it’s no good from a PvP-standpoint, in my opinion. Guild Wars 2 offers sPvP/tPvP, whereas TSW unfortunately just offers poorly designed faction PvP.

TSW copied GW1 wholly and solely, but added their flavour with the story.

TSW – 7 skills, dual weapon builds – 500 skills
GW1 – 8 skills, dual profession builds – man hundred skills

TSW added dodge rolling in, but other than that copied most other aspects of GW1.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I liked the idea of TSW but they failed in many aspects where GW2 has succeeded or at least laid a platform for success.

Problem with TSW is that the very best part of the game, the research type missions which are so well written, can just be looked up on the internet in seconds and pretty much that’s what everyone did so they wouldn’t get that sense of being left behind the crowd who were already on the dungeon gear grind.

When will dev’s get it, anyone who plays will look for shortcuts and exploits to get ahead of everyone else. And everyone else will follow so they don’t feel like they’ll get left behind.

Jaxon.5392:

TSW copied GW1 wholly and solely, but added their flavour with the story.

TSW – 7 skills, dual weapon builds – 500 skills
GW1 – 8 skills, dual profession builds – man hundred skills

TSW added dodge rolling in, but other than that copied most other aspects of GW1.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I liked the idea of TSW but they failed in many aspects where GW2 has succeeded or at least laid a platform for success.

Problem with TSW is that the very best part of the game, the research type missions which are so well written, can just be looked up on the internet in seconds and pretty much that’s what everyone did so they wouldn’t get that sense of being left behind the crowd who were already on the dungeon gear grind.

When will dev’s get it, anyone who plays will look for shortcuts and exploits to get ahead of everyone else. And everyone else will follow so they don’t feel like they’ll get left behind.

Frankly, Guild Wars 1 had a lot of mechanics that should have been copied – should always be copied. Its flawless guild system, highly competitive pvp, convenient server system, large number of skills + flexible skill system, and lack of grind were all features that somehow got lost in translation from Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars 2.

The foundation of the first game with the combat, dynamic events, beautiful open world, friendly loot system, (an improved version of the) personal story, playerbase, and engine of Guild Wars 2 would have been…. just perfect.

I love the writing and acting in TSW just absolutely love it. I am frustrated to no end by some of the mechanics. Someone triggers something on a quest line and it is frozen for anyone else coming after if they don’t clear it. There is a personal progression quest that I just cannot get past, you get it in my opinion way too early (about gear 4 or 5 I think), but even when I had weapons to 10 and equipment to 8 I still could not clear it. I am absolutely doing something wrong but getting the boss down to 25% the second attempt and then never getting it below 75 the next 10 attempts is just too much. Otherwise combat is as was mentioned ok but not amazing. Switching weapons around is fun. I do not read build posts so not affected by flavour of the month. I can solo up to city of the sun so not a huge thing to be able to solo effectively. The forums have very little helpful posts about bug walk-arounds. The outside sites have very good writups about how to do any quest though. All in all I prefer GW2.

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

7 month is NOTHING to an MMO. It’s the bottom of the line time wise. Most MMOs today are forced to release six months early. They spend the first half a year catching up. This is what the game should have been on release.

It really does take a year or two before MMOs find themselves. And this is true of almost all of them. There has to be enough there to hold people till that happpens. Rift did it. And theyr’e doing okay.

In another year, this game will rock, but now…it’s just in it’s growing stage. It’s pretty typical.

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

7 month is NOTHING to an MMO. It’s the bottom of the line time wise. Most MMOs today are forced to release six months early. They spend the first half a year catching up. This is what the game should have been on release.

It really does take a year or two before MMOs find themselves. And this is true of almost all of them. There has to be enough there to hold people till that happpens. Rift did it. And theyr’e doing okay.

In another year, this game will rock, but now…it’s just in it’s growing stage. It’s pretty typical.

Its been in development since the release of GW:EN, in 2007
Thats a long time for development.

7 months after release is a long time.
This game needs to start showing more polished features soon before more players start leaving.

JQ’s Malchor leap might as well be Undead territory since no one clears any of the outposts other than those needed to get to the temples, a stark contrast to when the game was new and players controlled all the contested WPs.

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

7 month is NOTHING to an MMO. It’s the bottom of the line time wise. Most MMOs today are forced to release six months early. They spend the first half a year catching up. This is what the game should have been on release.

It really does take a year or two before MMOs find themselves. And this is true of almost all of them. There has to be enough there to hold people till that happpens. Rift did it. And theyr’e doing okay.

In another year, this game will rock, but now…it’s just in it’s growing stage. It’s pretty typical.

Its been in development since the release of GW:EN, in 2007
Thats a long time for development.

7 months after release is a long time.
This game needs to start showing more polished features soon before more players start leaving.

JQ’s Malchor leap might as well be Undead territory since no one clears any of the outposts other than those needed to get to the temples, a stark contrast to when the game was new and players controlled all the contested WPs.

Actually, Guild Wars 2 had a normal MMO development cycle. The problem was that they announced it far too early. It put the fanbase on a ridiculous 5 year(?) hype-train that created nothing but high expectations and/or disillusionment for a lot of players.

Personally, I’m about 80-90% happy with the game as is – because most of it is fantastic, but the parts that aren’t fantastic really should be by the time the game is a year or two old.

watched a review for The Secret World and in my opinion it’s pretty kitten horrible
- walking in it is a weird mechanic
- crafting is overly complex
- you can’t really re-spec, so if you go somewhere you didn’t want to you’re stuck with it
It has been said that The Secret World would have been a great single player game, but doesn’t really work as an MMO.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Frankly, Guild Wars 1 had a lot of mechanics that should have been copied – should always be copied. Its flawless guild system, highly competitive pvp, convenient server system, large number of skills + flexible skill system, and lack of grind were all features that somehow got lost in translation from Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars 2.

The foundation of the first game with the combat, dynamic events, beautiful open world, friendly loot system, (an improved version of the) personal story, playerbase, and engine of Guild Wars 2 would have been…. just perfect.

1. You have about the same amount of skills you had in GW1 when it had no expansions. People tend to forget that most skills got introduced with expansions and GW2 is still on vanilla version.
2. There’s LESS grinding in GW2.

Mirta.5029:

watched a review for The Secret World and in my opinion it’s pretty kitten horrible
- walking in it is a weird mechanic
- crafting is overly complex

• you can’t really re-spec, so if you go somewhere you didn’t want to you’re stuck with it
  It has been said that The Secret World would have been a great single player game, but doesn’t really work as an MMO.*

You can earn literally infinite points to spend on your abilities (skills) and skills (traits) and at a relatively quick rate. There is no “respec” because the game doesn’t need one. Provided you have the weapons on you, you can literally change your entire build at any time when you have the skills unlocked.

If I wanted to (effectively) change my build in Guild Wars 2, I would have to stop what I was doing, go back to LA or another area with skill npc’s, and buy a respec. It’s cheap, but it’s a nuisance. On top of this, my change of builds would be ineffective if I did not have the right gear stats for it.

On movement, I don’t really understand the point you’re trying to make. Movement itself is fine – unless you’re referring to combat mobility, which is very lacking in TSW, or map travel, which is a pain in the rear, especially when there are multiple Ak’ab trying to tear you a new kittenhole.

And yes, the crafting system in TSW is a joke. It takes up ludicrous amounts of inventory space and requires a needlessly large amount of guesswork. The only advantage it has over the crafting systems of other games is that it allows you to take a weapon or other piece of gear apart and rearrange it into a new one to suit your needs.

2. There’s LESS grinding in GW2.

You’re funny. Hilarious, actually. You could reach max level in Guild Wars 1 in less than a day (with Factions) and have enough money for max gear shortly thereafter.

The required grind of Guild Wars 1 was negligible. Non-existant, even, unless you count the title grind elitists created for HA and elite dungeons – not a consequence of game mechanics so much as the community.

That is not to say that I feel Guild Wars 2 is grindy – Guild Wars 2’s grind is mostly self-imposed, but to say that Guild Wars 2 has less required grind than Guild Wars 1 did is absurd.

I do not know TSW story seemed well simply stolen from countless other stores its a cool idea and the story in there own right are not bad but its not very original. i mean you can take the story of Rome and make a great rts with it but its still the story of Rome you know how its going to end and what going to happen when well that is if you know your history.

Is there more to the story then just taking bits of other stores to try to make a new one?

Duke Blackrose.4981:

2. There’s LESS grinding in GW2.

You’re funny. Hilarious, actually. You could reach max level in Guild Wars 1 in less than a day (with Factions) and have enough money for max gear shortly thereafter.

The required grind of Guild Wars 1 was negligible. Non-existant, even, unless you count the title grind elitists created for HA and elite dungeons – not a consequence of game mechanics so much as the community.

That is not to say that I feel Guild Wars 2 is grindy – Guild Wars 2’s grind is mostly self-imposed, but to say that Guild Wars 2 has less required grind than Guild Wars 1 did is absurd.

so you’re saying that GW1 has no content because you beat it in a day?

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

7 month is NOTHING to an MMO. It’s the bottom of the line time wise. Most MMOs today are forced to release six months early. They spend the first half a year catching up. This is what the game should have been on release.

It really does take a year or two before MMOs find themselves. And this is true of almost all of them. There has to be enough there to hold people till that happpens. Rift did it. And theyr’e doing okay.

In another year, this game will rock, but now…it’s just in it’s growing stage. It’s pretty typical.

Its been in development since the release of GW:EN, in 2007
Thats a long time for development.

7 months after release is a long time.
This game needs to start showing more polished features soon before more players start leaving.

JQ’s Malchor leap might as well be Undead territory since no one clears any of the outposts other than those needed to get to the temples, a stark contrast to when the game was new and players controlled all the contested WPs.

7 months after release is a long time by who’s standards? Most MMOs are forced to released early, because of financial pressure. The cost is just too much to bear without getting anything back to pay staff. Other MMOs launch early for strategic reasons. I firmly believe this game launched to beat out MoP, figuring there would be a lot more sales if WoW didn’t already have a bunch of people hooked on their new expansion. They were probably right, too.

So if they launched early, the first six months are playing catchup. Stuff like WvW culling issues and guesting didn’t launch until many months after launch. There are still features it was supposed to launch with that aren’t in the game, including the shooting gallery and the barroom brawl.

Development takes time. To you seven months is a long time, to a programmer, not so much. What I try to do is to compare MMOs to other MMOs, as far as development goes.

So much time in the first months goes to fixing unexpected bugs, and finishing up the stuff that should have been released, but never made it in.

Rift had the best MMO launch I’d ever seen (except for the security/hacking problem they had) but the world was really really small. There wasn’t that much to do. So they made a tiny game but it was highly polished. As soon as it launched and they started changing stuff, the bugs started creeping in.

Guild Wars 2 launched with a massive world, lots of stuff to do, but more bugs than anyone could reasonably expect in any game (except maybe a Bethesda game which is in a class of its own as bugs go).

In the end, saying 7 months is a long time is a relative statement. For playing, sure. For programming, not so much.

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

7 month is NOTHING to an MMO. It’s the bottom of the line time wise. Most MMOs today are forced to release six months early. They spend the first half a year catching up. This is what the game should have been on release.

It really does take a year or two before MMOs find themselves. And this is true of almost all of them. There has to be enough there to hold people till that happpens. Rift did it. And theyr’e doing okay.

In another year, this game will rock, but now…it’s just in it’s growing stage. It’s pretty typical.

Its been in development since the release of GW:EN, in 2007
Thats a long time for development.

7 months after release is a long time.
This game needs to start showing more polished features soon before more players start leaving.

JQ’s Malchor leap might as well be Undead territory since no one clears any of the outposts other than those needed to get to the temples, a stark contrast to when the game was new and players controlled all the contested WPs.

7 months after release is a long time by who’s standards? Most MMOs are forced to released early, because of financial pressure. The cost is just too much to bear without getting anything back to pay staff. Other MMOs launch early for strategic reasons. I firmly believe this game launched to beat out MoP, figuring there would be a lot more sales if WoW didn’t already have a bunch of people hooked on their new expansion. They were probably right, too.

So if they launched early, the first six months are playing catchup. Stuff like WvW culling issues and guesting didn’t launch until many months after launch. There are still features it was supposed to launch with that aren’t in the game, including the shooting gallery and the barroom brawl.

Development takes time. To you seven months is a long time, to a programmer, not so much. What I try to do is to compare MMOs to other MMOs, as far as development goes.

So much time in the first months goes to fixing unexpected bugs, and finishing up the stuff that should have been released, but never made it in.

Rift had the best MMO launch I’d ever seen (except for the security/hacking problem they had) but the world was really really small. There wasn’t that much to do. So they made a tiny game but it was highly polished. As soon as it launched and they started changing stuff, the bugs started creeping in.

Guild Wars 2 launched with a massive world, lots of stuff to do, but more bugs than anyone could reasonably expect in any game (except maybe a Bethesda game which is in a class of its own as bugs go).

In the end, saying 7 months is a long time is a relative statement. For playing, sure. For programming, not so much.

Nobody does bugs like Bethesda (fallout 3 new Vegas) anyone?
But even with all the bugs ESO I bet ends up being much more fun as far as combat and builds and what you can do than this game and probably won’t have DR.

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

7 month is NOTHING to an MMO. It’s the bottom of the line time wise. Most MMOs today are forced to release six months early. They spend the first half a year catching up. This is what the game should have been on release.

It really does take a year or two before MMOs find themselves. And this is true of almost all of them. There has to be enough there to hold people till that happpens. Rift did it. And theyr’e doing okay.

In another year, this game will rock, but now…it’s just in it’s growing stage. It’s pretty typical.

Its been in development since the release of GW:EN, in 2007
Thats a long time for development.

7 months after release is a long time.
This game needs to start showing more polished features soon before more players start leaving.

JQ’s Malchor leap might as well be Undead territory since no one clears any of the outposts other than those needed to get to the temples, a stark contrast to when the game was new and players controlled all the contested WPs.

7 months after release is a long time by who’s standards? Most MMOs are forced to released early, because of financial pressure. The cost is just too much to bear without getting anything back to pay staff. Other MMOs launch early for strategic reasons. I firmly believe this game launched to beat out MoP, figuring there would be a lot more sales if WoW didn’t already have a bunch of people hooked on their new expansion. They were probably right, too.

So if they launched early, the first six months are playing catchup. Stuff like WvW culling issues and guesting didn’t launch until many months after launch. There are still features it was supposed to launch with that aren’t in the game, including the shooting gallery and the barroom brawl.

Development takes time. To you seven months is a long time, to a programmer, not so much. What I try to do is to compare MMOs to other MMOs, as far as development goes.

So much time in the first months goes to fixing unexpected bugs, and finishing up the stuff that should have been released, but never made it in.

Rift had the best MMO launch I’d ever seen (except for the security/hacking problem they had) but the world was really really small. There wasn’t that much to do. So they made a tiny game but it was highly polished. As soon as it launched and they started changing stuff, the bugs started creeping in.

Guild Wars 2 launched with a massive world, lots of stuff to do, but more bugs than anyone could reasonably expect in any game (except maybe a Bethesda game which is in a class of its own as bugs go).

In the end, saying 7 months is a long time is a relative statement. For playing, sure. For programming, not so much.

Nobody does bugs like Bethesda (fallout 3 new Vegas) anyone?
But even with all the bugs ESO I bet ends up being much more fun as far as combat and builds and what you can do than this game and probably won’t have DR.

I think you’ll find that games without DR end up being a lot less fun than you think they’ll be. Because most games that don’t have it end up with completely out of bounds inflation that don’t allow new players to ever catch up.

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

Rizzy.8293:

Vayne.8563:

@Rizzy

ESO probably has a lot of potential, but all MMOs launch with bugs and lack of content. Every single one. At around the time that launches, Guild Wars 2 will be getting its act together. You can bet that a lot of people will try it, but I’m not convinced it will retain a lot of people.

It might…but it’s by no means a sure thing. The surest thing about a new MMO is that it will be buggy as hell, and it will not have enough content for the content locusts.

This is true but its been 7 months.

7 month is NOTHING to an MMO. It’s the bottom of the line time wise. Most MMOs today are forced to release six months early. They spend the first half a year catching up. This is what the game should have been on release.

It really does take a year or two before MMOs find themselves. And this is true of almost all of them. There has to be enough there to hold people till that happpens. Rift did it. And theyr’e doing okay.

In another year, this game will rock, but now…it’s just in it’s growing stage. It’s pretty typical.

Its been in development since the release of GW:EN, in 2007
Thats a long time for development.

7 months after release is a long time.
This game needs to start showing more polished features soon before more players start leaving.

JQ’s Malchor leap might as well be Undead territory since no one clears any of the outposts other than those needed to get to the temples, a stark contrast to when the game was new and players controlled all the contested WPs.

7 months after release is a long time by who’s standards? Most MMOs are forced to released early, because of financial pressure. The cost is just too much to bear without getting anything back to pay staff. Other MMOs launch early for strategic reasons. I firmly believe this game launched to beat out MoP, figuring there would be a lot more sales if WoW didn’t already have a bunch of people hooked on their new expansion. They were probably right, too.

So if they launched early, the first six months are playing catchup. Stuff like WvW culling issues and guesting didn’t launch until many months after launch. There are still features it was supposed to launch with that aren’t in the game, including the shooting gallery and the barroom brawl.

Development takes time. To you seven months is a long time, to a programmer, not so much. What I try to do is to compare MMOs to other MMOs, as far as development goes.

So much time in the first months goes to fixing unexpected bugs, and finishing up the stuff that should have been released, but never made it in.

Rift had the best MMO launch I’d ever seen (except for the security/hacking problem they had) but the world was really really small. There wasn’t that much to do. So they made a tiny game but it was highly polished. As soon as it launched and they started changing stuff, the bugs started creeping in.

Guild Wars 2 launched with a massive world, lots of stuff to do, but more bugs than anyone could reasonably expect in any game (except maybe a Bethesda game which is in a class of its own as bugs go).

In the end, saying 7 months is a long time is a relative statement. For playing, sure. For programming, not so much.

Nobody does bugs like Bethesda (fallout 3 new Vegas) anyone?
But even with all the bugs ESO I bet ends up being much more fun as far as combat and builds and what you can do than this game and probably won’t have DR.

Personally, I never found DR to be much of an issue. It never actually bothered me.

About TESO, the Elder Scrolls games weren’t ever so much about the gameplay than it was about the immersion, lore, and the customizability (mods). Unless they make TESO’s combat like as if they included Deadly Reflex, I don’t think the gameplay would be a heck lot different compared to Oblivion/Skyrim, which to be honest isn’t really that deep, on par with GW2’s shallowest at the very most.

If they manage to pull it off though, good for them, I might end up playing it (since it’s Elder Scrolls). However, I’m not extremely hyped up for it.

(about TESO / GW2)

Just like SWTOR was way better off as KOTOR 3 instead half-baked attempt at MMO, I’m afraid that TESO will end up the same. MMO design is totally different beast as Bioware found in the hard way. I hope Bethesda learned from that but … dunno.

And Skyrim combat (and most of the game) was relatively boring (click, i clicked again, wow i clicked again) for me (never managed to force myself to play it for a long time).

TSW for me has much poorer dungeons (I will admit to only playing the early ones though) – they felt like a mess. It also caters for the elite and has an absoltuely abhorrent community (like a lot of funcom games). I’ve tried getting into the later dungeon in TSW and unless I have the gear or been there before, I’m kicked out. There’s no room for new players.

It’s quest system is superior in every way to any MMO I have played – the variety, inventiveness on show is a credit to the devs. The NPCs and storyline are also outstanding. I suspect implementing it is what drove the costs to sky high and meant other areas of the game were neglected. Anet already stated that they could only use a certain number of voice overs to free up code elsewhere (or something like that)

The combat system isn’t great though – it took GW1 and tried to copy it, but over complicated itself and got into a right mess with it.

GW2 is far more accessible – I enjoy the dungeons (esp Fractals), it’s much more pick and play and I personally prefer the combat system here – it feels more intuitive. Don’t get me wrong, TSW has some real groundbreaking elements (which prob cost a bomb to implement) and I enjoy it immensely, but GW2 wins for me.

Rizzy.8293:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Rizzy.8293:

Karizee.8076:

Rizzy.8293:

I couldnt agree more, GW2 has the potential but its being squandered away.
If it doesnt pull up its socks ESO might knock it into the dust as another one of those games that tried to take down WOW but failed.

By looking at it’s ocean of dead servers, WoW is doing a fine job of that all by itself.

TSW doesn’t have this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_7McRTFuA

You sure?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0p8key1TQ

Let’s not bring up TSW PvP. I chose not to discuss that BECAUSE it’s so much of a joke. There are literally whole servers dominated by one faction (one guild in fact) because noone wants to play that gear-dependent, poorly-designed mess.

and wvwvw zerg fests is better? :|

Better by a mile :P You can find them zergs if you want, but its just as easy to go to wvwvw and fight smaller scale… not once havent i been able to find smaller fights, and those are not dictated by gear nor do you have to suffer the amazingly kittenty stiff combat of TSW :P

The investigation missions are rather great. But the missions that take you into a solo instance just kill the game for me. I only play with friends, so suddenly being ripped apart from them makes me want to just exit straight away One more thing I love about gw2 is being able to do everything with friends (except hotjoin pvp, what the hell T_T one reason I try it but can’t stand it is being forced to fight my friends.)

The Secret World should had been a comic book series, with links to the internet for alternate reality games, because the only thing that’s good about it, are the stories. I followed the ARGs on the forums from the beginning, and it was a great way to advertise the game. But at the end of the day, Funcom just weren’t up to the challenge of making an MMO in 2012. The combat system is horribly boring, and the animations look outdated. If TSW had been released around 2008, it would probably have been huge, though.

Kasama.8941:

The Secret World should had been a comic book series, with links to the internet for alternate reality games, because the only thing that’s good about it, are the stories. I followed the ARGs on the forums from the beginning, and it was a great way to advertise the game. But at the end of the day, Funcom just weren’t up to the challenge of making an MMO in 2012. The combat system is horribly boring, and the animations look outdated. If TSW had been released around 2008, it would probably have been huge, though.

I’d say that Funcom has never been up to any challenge. Their games have never been popular (and probably for good reason). I’d say they are improving – because when your most well known projects are Bloodline Champions and Age of Conan, you really have nowhere to go but up.

so you’re saying that GW1 has no content because you beat it in a day?

No. I’m saying that levels and gear were never the point of Guild Wars 1. Progression was purely horizontal and the point of the game was the game itself – coordinating with your team and adapting your builds to fit the situation against increasingly difficult foes.

Even in Guild Wars 2, levels feel arbitrary. They are quick and relatively meaningless. There isn’t a whole lot of effort involved in obtaining them (FORTUNATELY), but it leaves room to wonder whether Guild Wars 2 could have been better with no levels at all. Think about it – with downscaling, the game is basically a pre-80 themepark MMO and a post-80 sandbox MMO that unfortunately has rewards issues in pre-70 zones. Without levels, the rewards system would have been seamless and the game would have been a true sandbox from the start.

I could never get into The Secret World.

There wasn’t enough XP, so I was always like a full level below the missions I was doing. The missions took far too long, enemies were packed too close together, and they took forever to kill.

I alt+F4’d halfway through a mission to kill some water monsters, some of which were two levels above me, over by Kingsmouth town. Deleted the game off my SSD to make room for Guild Wars 2.

I liked the setting and character development systems but I won’t be going back until they adjust the combat to take a reasonable amount of time.

There’s one thing I absolutely loved about TSW when I was in the beta. The starting Illuminati area is copied block-for-block, building-for-building from an actual region in the Bronx.

…and, um, I guess that’s about it… :-/

Investigation missions in TSW were great fun, I wish GW2 had something like these. Visually TSW was hit and miss for me. I liked the environments and creature design but the character models and combat animations were atrocious. The non-levels of TSW is a bit deceiving as it really had a hidden level progression in gear quality level. I much prefer the down scaling of GW2 to that. Combat in GW2 is miles better than TSW although I do enjoy the skill trees in TSW (even though the majority of them are the same just with different weapon flavors).

I do think TSW is an underrated game but I much prefer the gameplay of GW2. I will say that I am very happy that they have adopted the buy to play model.

Hi everyone,

Threads making comparisons between Guild Wars 2 and other games are not welcomed on the forums.

When providing feedback please, focus on Guild Wars 2.

Thanks for your contribution and understanding.

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