Guild Wars 2

So, Guild Wars 2 has now gone to the top of the PC download charts once more, beating pre-orders for Tomb Raider, Far-Cry 3 and more (no pandas to be seen!).

http://m.pcgamer.com/2012/12/14/resurgent-guild-wars-2-tops-pc-download-chart

Not bad for a game months after it’s release.

Also, not bad for the ‘dying’ game we hear so much about.

So congratulations Anet for creating a wonderful and successful game.

The game may not be perfect, it may be frustrating at times – but it is still a pleasure to play and I am looking forward to where Anet will take GW2 in the future.

What you see on the forum isn’t an accurate representation of reality.

I completely agree Warlord.

I have no problem with constructive criticism and reasoned discussion, but much of the stuff on the forums seems like a bunch of petulant children throwing their toys out of the pram (perhaps that’s what Tixx is up to, but on a larger scale?!).

People seem eager to make crazy presumptions or look at things in a deliberately ‘glass half-full’ light. For example:

I wasn’t exactly thrilled when Ascended gear was announced for example, but there is nothing I have seen to doubt Anet’s word that it will be a very shallow curve, rather than a frantic grindfest. Also, people who claim we are all being funneled into FOTM, seem to forget that Anet have promised that Ascended gear will be obtainable in all parts of the game in the near future.

Anyway, I am glad the game is doing well and still love it just as much as ever and finding tons to do, despite being many hours into GW2.

Enthilzha.1856:

So, Guild Wars 2 has now gone to the top of the PC download charts once more, beating pre-orders for Tomb Raider, Far-Cry 3 and more (no pandas to be seen!).

http://m.pcgamer.com/2012/12/14/resurgent-guild-wars-2-tops-pc-download-chart

Not bad for a game months after it’s release.

Also, not bad for the ‘dying’ game we hear so much about.

So congratulations Anet for creating a wonderful and successful game.

The game may not be perfect, it may be frustrating at times – but it is still a pleasure to play and I am looking forward to where Anet will take GW2 in the future.

MoP expansion sold more then GW2 did at launch. Not bad for a an 8 year old game against the “Second coming of MMO’s and the almighty GW2”.

From GW2 launch to now the number of people logging in has declined rapidly. And no one said the game was dying but there are plenty of servers where it is like a ghost town and if you go off of the “server status” then that says it all because those are about characters made on that server not people logged in.

Oh and a side note, if you played mmo for awhile you would know expansions don’t keep growing a lot once they are released. GW2 once they release an expansion will have the same thing. Sell a lot then drop off faster then the original game. MoP still sold more then GW2 which is funny.

GW2 is actually sold out at the stores in my town. No chance to get before christmas anymore! So yes it is on a dying path ^^

I don’t know if a chart of greenmangaming.com is reliable but to me it doesn’t matter if the game is selling more copies or not.

The fact that I don’t like the game, means I don’t play it anymore. That’s all that matters.

The problem with this link is that it doesn’t mean anything to me if a website says games sales are up, especially if I don’t really know the website behind it.

So Mr OP, as much as as it is pointless to try to prove the game is dying, it’s equally pointless to prove it isn’t. The only thing that matters is whether you like it or not. That should be enough justification for playing a game or quitting.

10 points for being a B5 fan though

Of course its at the top of the charts, its an amazing game

After 15 years of chasing a carrot and being yelled at by 12 year olds I would hope that a vast majority of the MMO community would be open to change.

Peetee.9406:

Of course its at the top of the charts, its an amazing game

After 15 years of chasing a carrot and being yelled at by 12 year olds I would hope that a vast majority of the MMO community would be open to change.

So, why is it different? Chasing the carrot has been introduced here too. It’s called Fractals/Ascended.

GW2 has a lot of positives, just not the ones that matter to me, but the carrot is here.

All games have ‘carrots’ you chase. Even Guild Wars 1 had them. Guild Wars 2 has them. Maybe they are becoming more like the variety (slightly) like as in WoW, but to think it has none or would have none… is not realistic.

Grugosh.6471:

GW2 is actually sold out at the stores in my town. No chance to get before christmas anymore! So yes it is on a dying path ^^

Must be a tiny town or they simply didn’t care to re-order any because everywhere I have looked they are on the shelves. Live in a major city also and have asked friends in small cities/towns and all have them.

But I guess just because your tiny town doesn’t carry it then the game MUST be thriving and only inclining since launch.

@Gehenna Well said!!!

The top of the Green Man Gaming charts?

Yeah. No.

Hi Bojangles.

I think to claim that no-one has said that GW2 is dying, is perhaps stretching it a wee bit – dozens of forum posts are claiming this very thing… I was merely trying to be a bit more positive, and take a different perspective. I know alot of people are claiming that servers are empty, but on Seafarer’s Rest, I have seen nothing of the sort in any zone.

I do agree that WoW is doing very well for an 8 year old game – there is no denying it’s success. Although I wouldn’t go back to WoW now, I do think that it was a superb game in it’s time – much like I feel GW2 is now.

I have been playing MMO’s since UO (I should probably go take a break and have a lie down then!), and have played almost every major game in the genre. I do appreciate that fans of an MMO are more likely to buy an expansion pretty quickly once released – my comment regarding pandas was merely a cheeky aside. I do think it is more significant, however, that GW2 is currently outselling major new releases.

Hi Gehenna.

Grats on being a B5 fan – what great taste you have!

The site the article comes from is PCGamer which should be pretty reputable I think!

I am not trying to prove that GW2 is not dying – just provide a little perspective and some good evidence.

I agree that a player’s enjoyment should be what keeps them in the game….or not. I don’t base my decision to play on how successful GW2 is… I just happen to rather enjoy it. And, if you don’t like it; that is fine too – you don’t have to play at all (though if I didn’t play/enjoy a game, I wouldn’t be posting on the forums!), and I respect your difference of opinion!

Gehenna.3625:

The fact that I don’t like the game, means I don’t play it anymore. That’s all that matters.

If you don’t like it and are not playing it anymore what are you still doing here?

Quoting another player:

“From GW2 launch to now the number of people logging in has declined rapidly. And no one said the game was dying but there are plenty of servers where it is like a ghost town and if you go off of the “server status” then that says it all because those are about characters made on that server not people logged in."

It is sad to see you making up information.
Dont you know server population isnt based on accounts created, but on “online” players status in a given time.

That’s why you can’t create a char today at a certain server, but if you give it a day you can.

Also, I can’t see my server as a ghost town. I’m going for 100% map completition and everywhere I go, no matter how dark that corner is, there’s always people around.

Population fluctuates, indeed.
It decreased to some extent as it is normal to any game, specially a game with no real “end game”. But it comes back up every month on every content patch.

And today, is one of those days.

Erm really, you’ve posted a link to a blog post that is based on the sales at Greenmangaming and decided to extrapolate that to global sales, wow…

Incidentally a few months after release doesn’t mean that much, Arma 2 is two years old and 7th in the top sellers list on Steam, The Sims 3 is 5th at Amazon.co.uk and was released in 2009.

Enthilzha.1856:

The site the article comes from is PCGamer which should be pretty reputable I think!

I am not trying to prove that GW2 is not dying – just provide a little perspective and some good evidence.

The author is very biased, and to use a platform as large as PC Gamer to pimp a tiny, TINY little list that isn’t used as the measure of success in… well, for anything in the industry?

PC Gamer just lost all of my respect for allowing him to post that drivel. It’s not news, it;‘s his agenda. And Probably part of Mike O’Brien’s well-connected friends network. See: Forbes, Time, etc.

Guys, this represents results from one gaming retailer. Suggesting this represents any broader reality is akin to suggesting all players are upset because the forums rage. Let’s test reality and avoid jumping to conclusions one way or the other.

Warlord.9074:

Gehenna.3625:

The fact that I don’t like the game, means I don’t play it anymore. That’s all that matters.

If you don’t like it and are not playing it anymore what are you still doing here?

I am discussing the game. I do not have to play it to discuss it. I have played it for 500 hours but I generally like forum discussions. It’s a different form of entertainment and who knows….maybe in the future I might give it another go. Stranger things have happened.

As far as the credibility of the source, this is the issue. Which sales have been measured? Does it include digital sales the companies make themselves via the official store? Does it include cash shop sales? A single link like this doesn’t prove the point, but that’s fine. I do not know if this game is doing well or not. I just know I am not playing it but do hope things might turn out for the better. One never knows…

Referring to your 2nd post Gehenna, I agree that like any game in the genre, GW2 does have a grind.

I do still feel that this grind is primarily horizontal though…

Anet have said that any vertical progression will be very slow and shallow, achievable by even casual players – and I see no reason to disbelieve them at this point.

They have said that they do not wish to introduce an endless gear-treadmill and I see no reason to disbelieve them on this either.

They have recognised they made mistakes with the initial implementation of Ascended gear, and that it should have been introduced in all forms of the game at the outset.

They have recognised mistakes were made with the whole Lost Shores event.

It encourages me that Anet are willing to accept mistakes have been made – it shows they do care about the players of GW2. I also think that we, as a gaming community, do no good by making unfounded assumptions about ‘carrot-on-a-stick’ type gaming when all we have seen is one new tier introduced, and been assured it will be rolled out over a very long time.

Reihert.1509:

Quoting another player:

“From GW2 launch to now the number of people logging in has declined rapidly. And no one said the game was dying but there are plenty of servers where it is like a ghost town and if you go off of the “server status” then that says it all because those are about characters made on that server not people logged in."

It is sad to see you making up information.
Dont you know server population isnt based on accounts created, but on “online” players status in a given time.

That’s why you can’t create a char today at a certain server, but if you give it a day you can.

Also, I can’t see my server as a ghost town. I’m going for 100% map completition and everywhere I go, no matter how dark that corner is, there’s always people around.

Population fluctuates, indeed.
It decreased to some extent as it is normal to any game, specially a game with no real “end game”. But it comes back up every month on every content patch.

And today, is one of those days.

Actually it appears you are drinking heavily from the Kool-Aid. The game has declined incredibly. If you think over a million people still play then you are very delusional. Sorry but not making up information. Not hard to read many top gaming websites of people leaving in droves, along with the FACT some servers a very low populated when claimed to be highly populated. Please don’t feed me this about everyone in a zone or doing instances. ToR has over 50-100+ in EACH zone. GW2 has 0 to barley a handful. I even made a new toon to see how the starter zones were on a very “heavy” populated servers and saw 0 people during prime time. ToR’s starting zones are very populated.

Why do I need to switch servers or make new toons to play on a populated server? In the beginning the one I was on was very populated. So please show me how there is no rapid decline of people?

Also PLEASE explain how many posters have said their friends lists have gone from 30+ people to 1 to 0 logging on? Along with others saying all their guild members quit?

So please don’t say I am making up stuff when in FACT what I said is true and that you are just blinded because you love the game. That is great you do but please at least take off the rose colored glasses sometimes.

@Enthilzha…Ultimately, the betrayal a lot of people felt is just one element.

Personally my gripes revolve more about the amount of grind for ascended gear and legendaries and the massive shortcomings in the story telling. Two things that were actually clearly mentioned in the Manifesto.

Sales may be up. I do not know. It would be great for Anet. If it works for many other people, great for them. Me, I would really need some major changes to the game to play it again or perhaps they will learn from their mistakes (as I see them) and make a great GW3.

I did log in again once last week to see…took about a minute and logged out. Why? Because even though I wasn’t planning on playing I actually felt there was nothing I wanted to do. So who cares then if millions are buying it. That doesn’t make the game any better for me.

Hence my point that doom and gloom is bull but also validating oneself via sales figures is equally uninteresting to my gaming experience.

Gehenna.3625:

Peetee.9406:

Of course its at the top of the charts, its an amazing game

After 15 years of chasing a carrot and being yelled at by 12 year olds I would hope that a vast majority of the MMO community would be open to change.

So, why is it different? Chasing the carrot has been introduced here too. It’s called Fractals/Ascended.

GW2 has a lot of positives, just not the ones that matter to me, but the carrot is here.

You are not forced to do anything in this game.

You could play the entire game in blue gear and you’d be just fine.

Fractals are not a forced loot chase and a Legendary is not a grind, if you don’t want to do those things then don’t do them.

The Fractals/Legendary are here for the players that want to chase after the better gear. People have been brainwashed by WoW into thinking you have to chase after better gear, you don’t.

If you willfully subject yourself to doing something that you don’t want to do, that’s your fault. That’s not ANet’s fault.

Peetee.9406:

Gehenna.3625:

Peetee.9406:

Of course its at the top of the charts, its an amazing game

After 15 years of chasing a carrot and being yelled at by 12 year olds I would hope that a vast majority of the MMO community would be open to change.

So, why is it different? Chasing the carrot has been introduced here too. It’s called Fractals/Ascended.

GW2 has a lot of positives, just not the ones that matter to me, but the carrot is here.

You are not forced to do anything in this game.

You could play the entire game in blue gear and you’d be just fine.

Fractals are not a loot chase and a Legendary is not a grind, if you don’t want to do those things then don’t do them.

The Fractals/Legendary are here for the players that want to chase after the better gear. People have been brainwashed by WoW into thinking you have to chase after better gear, you don’t.

If you willfully subject yourself to doing something that you don’t want to do, that’s your fault. That’s not ANet’s fault.

You completely miss my point. I indicated that it was incorrect to say that this game is different after years of following the carrot. This game has carrots too. That is not different. Also in other games you can ignore end game.

And I do not wilfully submit myself to this. In fact I never set foot in Fractals…not even once. I quit playing instead because the rest of the game already bored/annoyed me and play other games that I do enjoy.

Guys, of course this is just one set of sales figures (from a reasonably large EU retailer) and quoted on a very large gaming site, and whilst it may not ‘prove’ anything, it is a useful little indicator that GW2 is still selling in good numbers.

And, of course numbers of players have fallen – it would have been astonishing had they not in this genre. However, to suggest that the zones are empty is completely contrary to my experience and many others also (from reading the forums).

It would be interesting to find out from Anet exactly how they measure server-population. My hunch is that it comes from a number of factors including accounts on a server AND actual active players (the fluctuation of server population throughout the day does seem to bear this out). I may be wrong about this but I suspect it is a more complicated calculation than we think.

Enthilzha.1856:

Hi Bojangles.

I think to claim that no-one has said that GW2 is dying, is perhaps stretching it a wee bit – dozens of forum posts are claiming this very thing… I was merely trying to be a bit more positive, and take a different perspective. I know alot of people are claiming that servers are empty, but on Seafarer’s Rest, I have seen nothing of the sort in any zone.

I do agree that WoW is doing very well for an 8 year old game – there is no denying it’s success. Although I wouldn’t go back to WoW now, I do think that it was a superb game in it’s time – much like I feel GW2 is now.

I have been playing MMO’s since UO (I should probably go take a break and have a lie down then!), and have played almost every major game in the genre. I do appreciate that fans of an MMO are more likely to buy an expansion pretty quickly once released – my comment regarding pandas was merely a cheeky aside. I do think it is more significant, however, that GW2 is currently outselling major new releases.

I respect your replies but I will say that stat you should matters as much as boobs on a fly. There are some posts below your reply (the one I am quoting) which explains how credible and important that stat from that site means.

I am glad you love GW2 and think it is superb. I think it is horrible and no where near what I thought it would be like or what they said it would be. And not they completely changed everything they said.

As for WoW imo and many others being they still dominate in subs and trust me with all their servers they have, there are still loaded servers of people playing, it is STILL a great game. The end game is back to being complicated and challenging, still not as good as Vanilla or BC, but it blows Cata out of the water and most of Wrath. Sorry but imo WoW still blows GW2 out the water in all aspects except graphics.

Exploration I don’t really care about in GW2 but think WoW’s is better because flying over things you could only see when taking the flying taxis is amazing to see. Even the pvp is more competitive in WoW and WoW’s pvp is bleh. GW2 I thought was supposed to be pvp focused but ended up being extremely boring and lopsided.

But to each is own.

Peetee.9406:

Gehenna.3625:

Peetee.9406:

Of course its at the top of the charts, its an amazing game

After 15 years of chasing a carrot and being yelled at by 12 year olds I would hope that a vast majority of the MMO community would be open to change.

So, why is it different? Chasing the carrot has been introduced here too. It’s called Fractals/Ascended.

GW2 has a lot of positives, just not the ones that matter to me, but the carrot is here.

You are not forced to do anything in this game.

You could play the entire game in blue gear and you’d be just fine.

Fractals are not a forced loot chase and a Legendary is not a grind, if you don’t want to do those things then don’t do them.

The Fractals/Legendary are here for the players that want to chase after the better gear. People have been brainwashed by WoW into thinking you have to chase after better gear, you don’t.

If you willfully subject yourself to doing something that you don’t want to do, that’s your fault. That’s not ANet’s fault.

You can say this for EVERY mmo game. If you don’t get those Fractals/Legendary then you are behind and will likely be kicked from groups for things and won’t be able to progress later. Just like EVERY MMO. GW2 has nothing new to offer. Why do you think they completely changed what they told us about this game? Reminds me of SWG how the game was one way and then completely changed to try and keep up. GW2 is doing the same exact thing.

Haven’t seen anything new or ground breaking and revolutionary yet like this game was hyped to do. At least ToR brought back the RPG part of the mmoRPG and make incredible storylines with voice overs and options instead of just clicking a quest giver and not even reading the quest and clicking accept asap so you can get going.

Gehenna.3625:

You completely miss my point. I indicated that it was incorrect to say that this game is different after years of following the carrot. This game has carrots too. That is not different. Also in other games you can ignore end game.

It is different.

If you wanted to see the best things WoW had to offer, you had to grind the gear. That is chasing the carrot.

If you wanted to see the best things SWToR had to offer, you had to grind the gear. That is chasing the carrot.

There is nothing in this game that you can’t do in blue gear, there is no carrot on a stick. You are given a giant buffet of food and on any given day you can choose to eat what you want.

Peetee.9406:

Gehenna.3625:

You completely miss my point. I indicated that it was incorrect to say that this game is different after years of following the carrot. This game has carrots too. That is not different. Also in other games you can ignore end game.

It is different.

If you wanted to see the best things WoW had to offer, you had to grind the gear. That is chasing the carrot.

If you wanted to see the best things SWToR had to offer, you had to grind the gear. That is chasing the carrot.

There is nothing in this game that you can’t do in blue gear, there is no carrot on a stick. You are given a giant buffet of food and on any given day you can choose to eat what you want.

LMAO that EXACTLY describes GW2. Please explain to us how that is so different from GW2? Please don’t say, “you don’t have to do those things” because you don’t have to do them in those games either.

Gehenna, you are correct that GW2 has plenty of ‘carrots.’ TBH, without some form of ‘carrot’ or goal, why would people still want to play?

I don’t think Ascended gear is part of that though as the definition of a ‘carrot-on-a-stick’ is that you can never reach your goal as it is always moved on a little further. This has not happened as yet with vertical progression, although if this did start to be the case I would also be very unhappy and feel betrayed. However, I don’t want to pre-judge Anet for something they have not yet done and personally suspect they will never do.

It should be noted that Anet have recognised that Ascended gear is a bit too hard to get right now, and are looking to rectify that in(in the AMA).

Legendary gear is definitely a big ‘carrot’ in the game, but, you know what? I don’t mind that at all! Something like legendary gear should take alot of time and effort but the non-stat based reward is worth it!

I definitely agree though that the personal storylines are weak and poorly-implemented. It is a small flaw in a generally very good gaming experience for me, but nevertheless – disappointing.

bojangles.6912:

no where near what I thought it would be like or what they said it would be. And not they completely changed everything they said.

GW2 I thought was supposed to be pvp focused but ended up being extremely boring and lopsided.

But to each is own.

This is what I thought too, however I’m not ready to throw the towel in just yet that things will not be balanced some more. As far as balance goes GW2 is just as balanced as any other MMO out there if not more balanced in 3 months than other MMOs have had 8 years to do so. My biggest problem is with Culling. This is the major flaw of the game. It make no difference if a game is balanced if rendering is the issue that makes it OP. Theres a huge part of the newest patch is about balance so wait and see if any improvements come.

Peetee.9406:

Gehenna.3625:

You completely miss my point. I indicated that it was incorrect to say that this game is different after years of following the carrot. This game has carrots too. That is not different. Also in other games you can ignore end game.

It is different.

If you wanted to see the best things WoW had to offer, you had to grind the gear. That is chasing the carrot.

If you wanted to see the best things SWToR had to offer, you had to grind the gear. That is chasing the carrot.

There is nothing in this game that you can’t do in blue gear, there is no carrot on a stick. You are given a giant buffet of food and on any given day you can choose to eat what you want.

Wrong again. Higher level fractals require infusion as I understand it. I agree it’s only a small part of the game but it happens to be the part where most people are spending their time apparently. Also this is just the beginning. So I expect that over time this will change because Anet themselves already said that infusions will be required for future content.

But it doesn’t matter for this discussion. The point is there is nothing that keeps me playing in game because it fails to provide what I like in games: A good story, connection to characters and horizontal progression. Even that last part has not been implemented very well. So leveling is boring me now and being level 80 doesn’t add much that I enjoy either.

So I stopped. But this game has only started with vertical progression and it will expand as Anet promised. Stick your head in the sand all you want. If you like vertical progression be happy, if you don’t stay away from it and that will mean more content in the future.

And btw…don’t mix up the terms gated content and carrot on a stick. They may be related but aren’t the same. Either way, you’re still wrong.

bojangles.6912:

You can say this for EVERY mmo game. If you don’t get those Fractals/Legendary then you are behind and will likely be kicked from groups for things and won’t be able to progress later. Just like EVERY MMO. GW2 has nothing new to offer. Why do you think they completely changed what they told us about this game? Reminds me of SWG how the game was one way and then completely changed to try and keep up. GW2 is doing the same exact thing.

Haven’t seen anything new or ground breaking and revolutionary yet like this game was hyped to do. At least ToR brought back the RPG part of the mmoRPG and make incredible storylines with voice overs and options instead of just clicking a quest giver and not even reading the quest and clicking accept asap so you can get going.

Where? Where are these groups kicking you out for not having legendaries? And if there is such a group, which I doubt, it’s probably a poor group to be in anyway. If you want to be taken seriously, quit exaggerating.

GW2 has plenty new to offer, maybe not completely new, but redone better. The whole idea alone that you can do anything in the game in just blue gear is new and that is the games biggest selling point.

I’ll take full credit for this one. I have been praising the game to my friends who insist on playing that other MMO that they hate (yep) and people who don’t even know what a MMO is.

I think NCSoft or ANet or whoever should flood the Cartoon Network prime time lineup with non stop commercials and promote the game.

Peetee.9406:

bojangles.6912:

You can say this for EVERY mmo game. If you don’t get those Fractals/Legendary then you are behind and will likely be kicked from groups for things and won’t be able to progress later. Just like EVERY MMO. GW2 has nothing new to offer. Why do you think they completely changed what they told us about this game? Reminds me of SWG how the game was one way and then completely changed to try and keep up. GW2 is doing the same exact thing.

Haven’t seen anything new or ground breaking and revolutionary yet like this game was hyped to do. At least ToR brought back the RPG part of the mmoRPG and make incredible storylines with voice overs and options instead of just clicking a quest giver and not even reading the quest and clicking accept asap so you can get going.

Where? Where are these groups kicking you out for not having legendaries? And if there is such a group, which I doubt, it’s probably a poor group to be in anyway. If you want to be taken seriously, quit exaggerating.

GW2 has plenty new to offer, maybe not completely new, but redone better. The whole idea alone that you can do anything in the game in just blue gear is new and that is the games biggest selling point.

Ok please tell me what is new and ground breaking and not done before. I am dying to find out. The only thing I guess you can say is their questing system but that is the worst part of this game. Horrible questing system. Grind the same 3 events non stop till you level for the next zone isn’t my idea of cutting edge and fun. And please don’t tell me to craft because if you add that as something you need to do to level says it all.

Bojangles… I would personally not go back to WoW after playing GW2…but as you rightly say – to each his own! If you prefer another game, that is fine and our differences are what make the world so interesting!

I am certainly not trying to suggest one game is better than another though – even though my personal preference is pretty clear.

I completely agree that GW2 is not a revolution and that pretty much everything in-game has been done before. Like WoW when it first emerged, GW2 for me simply implements all the new ideas in the genre in a much more refined way and in a complete package.

Btw, I have no idea what you meant by flies and boobs etc!

Btw

I can believe it OP. Server seems to be overflowing with more people everyday.

Grugosh.6471:

GW2 is actually sold out at the stores in my town. No chance to get before christmas anymore! So yes it is on a dying path ^^

How is things in Monowi ?

bojangles.6912:

Quoting another player:

So please don’t say I am making up stuff when in FACT what I said is true and that you are just blinded because you love the game. That is great you do but please at least take off the rose colored glasses sometimes.

Your statements aren’t facts any more than anyone else’s. They’re conjectures built of anecdotal evidence submitted by an individual who’s stated they are biased against the subject matter. I’ve been leveling a few alts in few zones and have had lots of other players around, but that doesn’t mean that’s evidence that average player activity is up.

The original poster put forth a single data point. While it’s analytically unsound to make sweeping generalizations about the meaning of that one data point, that is one more data point than you’ve provided. Guild Wars 2 has a fairly unique player engagement model that they seem to be experimenting with still. “Active” and “inactive” players don’t have a hard and fast definition. The no-subscription model gives this game a relatively low barrier to reentry for people who decide to stop playing it. With each new content patch, ArenaNet has the potential to reactivate subsets of that player base. Even some of the “doomsayers” on the forums admit they may try the game again from time to time. I doubt they’d be willing to do that in a subscription model.

The reality is that we have no idea what an healthy average player activity rate for this game or even what the average player activity rate actually is. Only ArenaNet has that data. Until they decide to share it all we can do is conjecture and spin around the few data points we do have. Personally, I think any “decline” you’re seeing is more akin to many people stabilizing their play time. This will balance out and the overall population will continue to grow with highest concentrations of player concurrence occurring during content releases.

Enthilzha.1856:

Bojangles… I would personally not go back to WoW after playing GW2…but as you rightly say – to each his own! If you prefer another game, that is fine and our differences are what make the world so interesting!

I am certainly not trying to suggest one game is better than another though – even though my personal preference is pretty clear.

I completely agree that GW2 is not a revolution and that pretty much everything in-game has been done before. Like WoW when it first emerged, GW2 for me simply implements all the new ideas in the genre in a much more refined way and in a complete package.

Btw, I have no idea what you meant by flies and boobs etc!

Btw

LOL that boobs on a fly thing was meant because it is pointless and doesn’t mean anything like that stat. Back in HS one of my football coaches who was in the military used to use that phrase a lot and was funny. Except he didn’t say boobs heheh.

The one thing though with WoW was it took things from other MMO’s (which was then there weren’t many to choose from like there is now) and did the good parts even better and left out the bad things. They made an mmo that had a very easy learning curve compared to like UO. Games like that kept people away because it was hard. WoW’s end game is the best to date and there is no way ANY mmo will come close to how it was. That is a huge part in todays mmo’s. It shows because GW2 said there is no type of end game yet they are making end game by having these dungeons. It is only a matter of time before there is a 10/25 man type raid in GW2 and will have upgraded gear in them.

It is just sad they don’t spend this much time to fix the pvp and actually make that end of things fun and ground breaking because after all, I thought, like I have stated before, GW2 was supposed to be pvp focused and not pve like it is now. And hate to say it, but for me GW2 pve is horrible. The only enjoyable part for me is the graphics.

Gehenna, you are correct in saying that there will be vertical progression in the future of GW2 – Anet have said as much themselves.

What is key for me is how this is implemented. If, as Anet claim, this will be a very slow and shallow process, with new gear available without too much fuss, from any part of the game world, then I shall have no issues and not see this as a gear-treadmill.

If, as Anet have clearly refuted, they introduce higher stats/increased level cap every 5 minutes with incredibly hard to get gear etc, I will be as unhappy as anyone. Personally, I don’t think Anet would be that stupid.

At the end of the day, I have played some seriously grindy games, and so far, GW2 is nothing like any of these.

The only thing I guess you can say is their questing system but that is the worst part of this game. Horrible questing system. Grind the same 3 events non stop till you level for the next zone isn’t my idea of cutting edge and fun. And please don’t tell me to craft because if you add that as something you need to do to level says it all.

I wanted to quote this because it’s the absolute worst statement in this whole thread.

If this is how you play, you are most definitely doing it wrong.

@bojangles For someone who isn’t happy with GW2 your spending an awfull lot of time on these forums talking kitten about it which is pretty funny , always comparing it to WoW and whatnot guess what? You can go play it and stop posting about gw2 since you do not have any constructive criticism towards it atleast. Same goes for the rest of the folk saying the game is dying everywhere rofl.

From what it seems every report , award every positive link towards gw2 says otherwise. So just deal with it the game is doing more than fine. You can always play something else but dont try to bash it and send ppl off because you cannot compare anything to your 8-9 years old games.

Bojangles – I get it now! That’s a great quote!

You said:

‘The one thing though with WoW was it took things from other MMO’s (which was then there weren’t many to choose from like there is now) and did the good parts even better and left out the bad things.’

This is exactly what I was trying to say (but far less eloquently) that I feel GW2 has done in the present day. WoW was never revolutionary in it’s ideas etc. What changed the genre was that it took everything good at the time, and put it in a very shiny, well produced and implemented package…just as I believe GW2 has done.

As for sPVP… that’s the one part of the game I haven’t done so I can’t really comment!

Enthilzha.1856:

Gehenna, you are correct in saying that there will be vertical progression in the future of GW2 – Anet have said as much themselves.

What is key for me is how this is implemented. If, as Anet claim, this will be a very slow and shallow process, with new gear available without too much fuss, from any part of the game world, then I shall have no issues and not see this as a gear-treadmill.

If, as Anet have clearly refuted, they introduce higher stats/increased level cap every 5 minutes with incredibly hard to get gear etc, I will be as unhappy as anyone. Personally, I don’t think Anet would be that stupid.

At the end of the day, I have played some seriously grindy games, and so far, GW2 is nothing like any of these.

Well, the truth is that Anet themselves admitted that the initial implementation of Ascended gear was not how it should’ve been. So who knows, maybe in the future there really will be the possibility to get ascended gear without grinding the same dungeon over and over and actually be able to get it in all playstyles, whether it’s dungeons, general PvE, WvW or whatever. This is mostly what other MMOs did wrong with endgame gear.
Anet started off wrong with Fractals and RNG and in fact I find this style of grind worse than anything I’ve seen in other MMOs myself. Once this is achieved and a full set can be collected, I might have a look again.

When I look at what you need to do here for legendaries or ascended, it really is an insane grind and equals or beats any grind I did before. And even though I am not entirely against grind, I do find that it’s either totally easy to get exotics or insane grind to get a legendary or ascended. Adding RNG to that process only makes it worse.

But the biggest failing in any MMO endgame is that endgame gear is not available to all playstyles generally. Why is it bad to be able to craft BiS, or gain it with other dungeons. Why not be able to gain them them while completing the world and doing events? Karma should be able to buy BiS. Add in some quests, activities whatever but it never made sense to me why it had to be only one thing like Fractals if people spent the same amount of time gaming but just prefer different activities….

I waited years for GW2 and played also GW1.

But for me Far Cry 3 deserved to be in the top, GW2 is fun, but it as it’s madness things that make it boring at the endgame when we done plenty everything of PVE, I was hoping for more content for have fun for more time. I HATE repeat things, and when the game became Farm and Grind at endgame, It killed me.

It is very important to remember that official game forums almost NEVER accurately represent the quality of the game OR the majority opinion of the actual playerbase.

Don’t get me wrong, a lot of good things can come from discussion on the official boards.

But it is also full of hyperbole like “the game is dying!” The game is not dying, it will not be “dead” anytime soon. But just like all other games before it, the bandwagoners will drift away from it, and the community that has made a more permanent choice for GW2 because they’ve settled that its the game and the community they want to invest in for some time will remain.

Honestly the golden age for most MMOs is at least six months after release or more. Even MMOs who have not been financially successful were still far better games after the initial wave of professional MMO-hoppers (and forum gripers) washed through. Thus, I’m very excited about what the next year of GW2 may bring.

It’s not that I have no criticisms or desires for improvement. I actually have some big ones. It’s just that I have learned from over a decade of experience with MMOs that you absolutely cannot judge a games quality by its official forums.

In fact, if you don’t have thick skin and you find that you suddenly feel more “bummed” about the game for no real reason after you’ve been to the forums – seriously try boycotting them for 30 days and see how much your sense of enjoyment in game goes up.

Its’ a natural tendency of ANY game forum to mostly contain people who are currently frustrated with some aspect of the game. Its’ simple logic, really: People enjoying themselves usually continue to enjoy themselves. They aren’t going to stop playing just to let you know about it. People who are frustrated want a place to vent their frustrations, so they come to the forum where a bunch of other people are doing the same place and find justification in doing so.

While there is usually a good point or two in every rage-induced post, its’ important to keep in mind that frustration tends to be accompanied by over-dramatization. Don’t take anything you see on the forums too seriously. Most “veteran” mmo players already know this, but its’ important to reiterate it every now and then.

Enthilzha.1856:

This is exactly what I was trying to say (but far less eloquently) that I feel GW2 has done in the present day. WoW was never revolutionary in it’s ideas etc. What changed the genre was that it took everything good at the time, and put it in a very shiny, well produced and implemented package…just as I believe GW2 has done.

As for sPVP… that’s the one part of the game I haven’t done so I can’t really comment!

For the first part you said “WoW was never revolutionary in it’s ideas” which imo is incorrect because they made end game raiding revolutionary to where it has become a huge part in mmos now. I know games like EQ1 had it and was a huge grind, but look at what they did with Vanilla and BC. The subs jumped up that high because of this, or at least a huge part in it. Not only did you have to work and spend time to get attuned for that raid, but the raid itself was amazing and revolutionary.

Look at: MC, BWL, ZG, Kara, AQ40, AQ20, Naxx40, Sunwell, BT, SSC, TK. There are a couple other good ones after BC but just saying since we are talking about the beginning. WoW revolutionized end game raiding imo. To me revolutionize doesn’t need to mean brand new and never seen before, but even to take something which was ok or good to make it even better. So I guess you can argue that WoW didn’t do this because some may use the term revolutionary to mean ground break never seen before which probably won’t happen for awhile although ToR was the first to do an all voice over game.

GW2 isn’t dying, but it’s population is dropping. The game was marketed towards a lot of players in other games, but it just doesn’t deliver for that type of player. There’s people who like raiding, there’s people who like getting more and more powerful, there’s people who prefer the direction TERA took on this combat system, where you CAN really play as a tank or healer / support. Not everyone likes the roll away from everything or run in circles / abuse mobs inability to walk over a 6 inch high wall style of combat.

And these people are all going to stop logging on when they realize the game just doesn’t have content for them. At the end of the day, GW2 is going to be a niche community playing it. It’ll be successful, but in the same way GW1 was.

It’s just not an MMORPG player’s MMORPG.

Max Lexandre.6279:

I waited years for GW2 and played also GW1.

But for me Far Cry 3 deserved to be in the top, GW2 is fun, but it as it’s madness things that make it boring at the endgame when we done plenty everything of PVE, I was hoping for more content for have fun for more time. I HATE repeat things, and when the game became Farm and Grind at endgame, It killed me.

ANet has made some missteps with its management of ongoing high level content. In trying to cater to players coming from both the GW1 side of the universe (which includes other non-progression raiding, PvP emphasis games) and trying to milk the cash cow that is the bajillion progression raiding players from the WoW side of the universe (which includes other progression raiding games) — ANet has right now ended up catering to neither.

Then by rushing out content that added another gear tier without making it accessible through ALL gameplay types (exploring, PvP, crafting, karma, in addition to instance farming) they fragmented the community. The introduction of Fractals had a very chilling effect on the game overall, and for the last month the game has felt a lot more like a repetitive treadmill in which the only thing the mindless masses are ever doing is spamming for fractals in Lion’s Arch.

It’s taken away from the health of the community by diminishing all the other explorable instance content in the game, and because the top gear rewards only come via Fractals, it has driven a wedge in the community between WvW and PvE oriented gamers.

What Anet needs to appreciate is that they chose a design path that they can’t change now, and that choice means the game simply can not possibly be all things to all people. If they keep trying to be that, they really will fail.

Anet chose to have no progression raiding. They chose to do away with the holy trinity of group formation. They chose to have limited gear tiers and chose to make endgame “loot” rewards be cosmetic rather than stat based. They chose to have a handful of 5-player dungeons and [i]chose to scale PvE instanced content to 5-man groups.

By these choices, they declare that the reason people will be playing GW2 a year from now, if they are at all is its Player vs. Player content - just like in GW1.

But then, after all these core design decisions, the game releases and Anet scrambles to hook Wow-players. Every major update to the game since release has been PvE focused. Then they rushed now a new “tier” of gear in a completely obvious ploy to suck in a base of people who historically want all the things Anet is not: progression raiding, stat/tier based rewards, trinity group dynamics, etc.

This currently the most significant challenge facing the game. Anet has to stop trying to be all things to everyone. Anet made some choices in game direction long ago, and the entire game is built right down to its very code base from those choices. Anet needs to stop trying to be all things to all people and play to GW2 strengths.

refocus on PvP – both sPvP and WvW. Your game is designed around these two things being the enduring “endgame” for players. Play to those strengths and accept that people looking for pve progression raiding games will go somewhere else.

EACH major content update should include content for PvP, whether its large or small. There should never be a month in which WvW/PvP are ignored, because this is where Anet can create a more unique and successful “endgame.”

having said that, I don’t “hate” PvE. But I also don’t consider it a viable “endgame” in GW2 because of the way GW2 is designed. Instead, PvE at 80 is about fun and exploration – a diversion when you need a change of pace from the ACTUAL endgame….

….So add 5-man explorable dungeons every 2-3 months with new cosmetic and exotic level rewards, with the full understanding that no one is expected to “grind” that new dungeon as the one and only thing they do ten times a day. Explore it with your friends a few times, or long enough to get some cool skins that you would like, then move on. Keep changing or adding to existing dungeons (either in rewards or content changes) so that it feels like players constantly have many, many viable dungeons to choose from.

- What happened to Dynamic Content? There was supposedly a whole team of developers who were going to be regularly removing Dynamic Events that had been in zones a long time and introducing brand new Dynamic Events…. where did that go? It would be amazing to be exploring with an alt and run into completely different dynamic events in places you have been before.