Guild Wars 2

GW2 endgame is zerging. You zerg everywhere, zerg wvw, zerg open world, zerg here, zerg there. Can you revamp the content and make the game zergless?
I don’t think people want to mindless zerg. I assume we want strategy to be a big part of the gameplay…or wasn’t that the intention of GW2 combat?

i don’t see any real cure for zergs when damage > all. what kind of content were you thinking of

First off, I’m sick of that word. The concept of an “endgame” is stupid.

More importantly: You’ve stated what you don’t like. That’s fair. So where are the suggestions? Simply saying “revamp the content and make the game zergless” is terribly vague.

milo.6942:

i don’t see any real cure for zergs when damage > all. what kind of content were you thinking of

Zerg is that hard to fix imo… simply implement a “over crowded” system that decreases player effectiveness when too many players are in close proximity; they do less damage, misses attack and take more damage due to all the chaos.

=)

ParnAshwind.4823:

milo.6942:

i don’t see any real cure for zergs when damage > all. what kind of content were you thinking of

Zerg is that hard to fix imo… simply implement a “over crowded” system that decreases player effectiveness when too many players are in close proximity; they do less damage, misses attack and take more damage due to all the chaos.

=)

that’s a terrible idea

Got an idea: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Guild-Wars-2-suggestion-real-Guild-Wars/first#post2706726 . If they would implement this( or something similar), there will be more strategy.

ParnAshwind.4823:

milo.6942:

i don’t see any real cure for zergs when damage > all. what kind of content were you thinking of

Zerg is that hard to fix imo… simply implement a “over crowded” system that decreases player effectiveness when too many players are in close proximity; they do less damage, misses attack and take more damage due to all the chaos.

=)

Or simply make “zergy” content not as rewarding as more skill-oriented content, thus eliminating the “zerg farm” culture GW2 currently possesses.

Casual players would then have their content and are rewarded in some way, and challenge-focused or “hardcore” players would be rightfully getting more rewards than the casual players, and then everyone’s happy. No need for complex damage mechanics like what you just described; just less incentive to farm them and turn it into a low-risk/high-reward farm culture, and more incentive to do more challenging and — and this is an aspect that I feel too many people leave out of the equation — contributive content (i.e., capping temples in Orr).

DusK.3849:

Or simply make “zergy” content not as rewarding as more skill-oriented content, thus eliminating the “zerg farm” culture GW2 currently possesses.

Imo, there is no “zergy” content and classifying players as “zerg” or “skillful” or “hardcore” is fundamentally wrong and discriminating.

Currently content scales to a maximum difficulty after X amount of player show up. When that X amount of player is exceeded by 10x, the content becomes easy as mobs melt away.

Now an “over crowded” system will – decrease player in the zerg based on how huge the zerg is, ie: if a content reaches its maximum difficulty when 10 players show up and there are 50 players doing that event, each player will operate at 20% effectiveness (deal 80% less damage). Then it take time to kill the champion/mob regardless of number of players. Effectively eliminating the appeal of “zerg”.

DusK.3849:

First off, I’m sick of that word. The concept of an “endgame” is stupid.

More importantly: You’ve stated what you don’t like. That’s fair. So where are the suggestions? Simply saying “revamp the content and make the game zergless” is terribly vague.

Sorry, but your definition of end-game is so wrong it almost made me cry. Endgame definition: The late or final stages of any activity or game. This does not imply that you are forced to repeat the same dungeon/raid/event multiple times to achieve what you believe is “endgame”. Endgame is nothing more than activities that you complete or pursue after you reach max level, and they’re activities that make you feel accomplished. WoW had good endgame because there were countless activities that you could choose from and do at any time you wanted.

And Anet dug themselves into a hole with this zerging anyway. In PvE, increase the condition damage on any and all bosses. Also spread out their aoe attacks so it reaches everywhere at 360 degrees so there isn’t a safe spot to stand. It’s like Anet developed this game with the intent that players would only zerg. Seriously, there’s a safe spot with every boss in the game. The point is probably that Anet has screwed themselves over so hard, that I don’t think it’s possible to get rid of zerging entirely unless they reinvent the entire game, which isn’t likely to happen.

Galtrix.7369:

WoW had good endgame because there were countless activities that you could choose from and do at any time you wanted.

This made me LOL quite a bit, considering WoW is the primary example I used to describe “endgame” in that blog post.

From September 2009 to December 2009, you were only doing one thing: Onyxia’s Lair. From February 2010 to June 2010, you were doing one thing: Icecrown Citadel. From July 2010 to Cataclysm, you were doing one thing: Ruby Sanctum.

At any given point in WoW in the past five or so years, only one piece of content has been “endgame” relevant at any given time; the vast majority of the playerbase is, at any given point, focusing on a single sliver of content in what is otherwise an extremely expansive game. If you really think that, in 2013, you still have droves of people lining up to do Molten Core, Black Temple, or have more than three or four people questing anywhere that isn’t Pandaria, you’re deluding yourself.

Guild wars won’t be an alternative to zerging, as described above ? I mean, this is another thing to do. In addition to that, the game name gets a sense. Are Guild wars zerging?

The endgame is what you make of it.

For some people it’s farming – for some people it’s just running around naked, jumping off of things.

I generally associate endgame content as doing dungeons with your guild, getting epic loot, and just having a fun time.

DusK.3849:

Galtrix.7369:

WoW had good endgame because there were countless activities that you could choose from and do at any time you wanted.

This made me LOL quite a bit, considering WoW is the primary example of what I used to describe “endgame” in that blog post.

From September 2009 to December 2009, you were only doing one thing: Onyxia’s Lair. From February 2010 to June 2010, you were doing one thing: Icecrown Citadel. From June 2010 to Cataclysm, you were doing one thing: Ruby Sanctum.

At any given point in WoW in the past five or so years, only one piece of content has been “endgame” relevant at any given time; the vast majority of the playerbase is, at any given point, focusing on a single sliver of content in what is otherwise an extremely expansive game. If you really think that, in 2013, you still have droves of people lining up to do Molten Core, Black Temple, or have more than three or four people questing anywhere that isn’t Pandaria, you’re deluding yourself.

Have you even played WoW before? From your post, it makes me think you haven’t. Just because one piece of endgame is popular, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t other options to choose from when selecting end-game activities. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like being funneled into specific areas and being forced to complete new content that I despise once I hit max level. Go research a few end-game WoW activities and then go research Guild Wars 2 end-game activities. Compare the two. Then come back and praise me for the genius I am.

Here’s the endgame.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/08/06/2013-video-game-release-schedule.aspx

TooBz.3065:

Here’s the endgame.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/08/06/2013-video-game-release-schedule.aspx

Perfect. +1

Galtrix.7369:

Have you even played WoW before? From your post, it makes me think you haven’t. Just because one piece of endgame is popular, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t other options to choose from when selecting end-game activities. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like being funneled into specific areas and being forced to complete new content that I despise once I hit max level. Go research a few end-game WoW activities and then go research Guild Wars 2 end-game activities. Compare the two. Then come back and praise me for the genius I am.

Check your your narcissism at the door, “genius”.

Yes. I have played WoW. I started playing just before the release of Burning Crusade (I actually remember when weather became a thing, watching Goldshire freak out about rain was a kick), and stopped just weeks before the release of Cataclysm.

You want “research” comparing WoW’s endgame and Guild Wars 2? Here’s WoW in a nutshell.

1. Roll toon.
2. Level up, skipping all dungeons and raids between level 1 and whatever the current max is, and then proceed to skip all raids that are not part of the current “endgame” meta.
3. Get geared through heroic dungeons or similar mechanisms as fast as possible.
4. Start raiding in whatever raid is considered “endgame” at the time.
5. Do said “endgame” raid over and over and over again.
6. Get geared.
7. Wait for the next raid to release.
8. Repeat steps 4 through 7.

You can’t imagine how heartbroken I was leveling my first toon in WoW. Never finding a group for all of those awesome vanilla raids, having to wait nearly an hour for any non-WotLK dungeon as a DPS, and then reaching the “finish line” only to find nearly the entire server hanging out in Dalaran in between bouts of banging their head against the ICC wall over and over. That sucked. So yeah, to see how sitting here prattling about “options” is hilarious after experiencing first-hand how many “options” there are.

What about Guild Wars 2? Well, no list there; it’s about options at that point. Whatever suits your fancy. See, unlike WoW, there is no endgame; there is only a game. No part of the game suddenly becomes irrelevant at level 80. As a result, no zone is as barren as The Barrens. All of the dungeons in the game have a bunch of players looking to do them. WvW is packed. Even sPvP, despite how little attention it’s gotten, is more viable than any non-“meta” offering in any other MMORPG.

Guild Wars 2 as a game > WoW’s “endgame”.

When I read the tittle of the thread I thought: “YEAH! SOMEBODY FOUND IT!”

Guess no,.. we are still looking for the missing end game.

Eng Game! Where are you??

DusK.3849:

First off, I’m sick of that word. The concept of an “endgame” is stupid.

More importantly: You’ve stated what you don’t like. That’s fair. So where are the suggestions? Simply saying “revamp the content and make the game zergless” is terribly vague.

Well a single player game is done when you complete the campaign. MMOs go on after that.

So what would you call content for when you’ve reached max level and finished the campaign?

You want to do the same stuff over and over again or would you want different activities?

See, no matter what you call it, endgame or max level content or whatever…the point of an MMO is that you can play together with people on a long term basis.

If there is nothing new once you hit max level, then most people will get bored on a relatively short term. That is a bit counterproductive for an MMO.

DusK.3849:

Galtrix.7369:

Have you even played WoW before? From your post, it makes me think you haven’t. Just because one piece of endgame is popular, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t other options to choose from when selecting end-game activities. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like being funneled into specific areas and being forced to complete new content that I despise once I hit max level. Go research a few end-game WoW activities and then go research Guild Wars 2 end-game activities. Compare the two. Then come back and praise me for the genius I am.

Check your your narcissism at the door, “genius”.

Yes. I have played WoW. I started playing just before the release of Burning Crusade (I actually remember when weather became a thing, watching Goldshire freak out about rain was a kick), and stopped just weeks before the release of Cataclysm.

You want “research” comparing WoW’s endgame and Guild Wars 2? Here’s WoW in a nutshell.

1. Roll toon.
2. Level up, skipping all dungeons and raids between level 1 and whatever the current max is, and then proceed to skip all raids that are not part of the current “endgame” meta.
3. Get geared through heroic dungeons or similar mechanisms as fast as possible.
4. Start raiding in whatever raid is considered “endgame” at the time.
5. Do said “endgame” raid over and over and over again.
6. Get geared.
7. Wait for the next raid to release.
8. Repeat steps 4 through 7.

You can’t imagine how heartbroken I was leveling my first toon in WoW. Never finding a group for all of those awesome vanilla raids, having to wait nearly an hour for any non-WotLK dungeon as a DPS, and then reaching the “finish line” only to find nearly the entire server hanging out in Dalaran in between bouts of banging their head against the ICC wall over and over. That sucked. So yeah, to see how sitting here prattling about “options” is hilarious after experiencing first-hand how many “options” there are.

What about Guild Wars 2? Well, no list there; it’s about options at that point. Whatever suits your fancy. See, unlike WoW, there is no endgame; there is only a game. No part of the game suddenly becomes irrelevant at level 80. As a result, no zone is as barren as The Barrens. All of the dungeons in the game have a bunch of players looking to do them. WvW is packed. Even sPvP, despite how little attention it’s gotten, is more viable than any non-“meta” offering in any other MMORPG.

Guild Wars 2 as a game > WoW’s “endgame”.

Let’s agree to disagree. I can’t get a party for Arah anymore, because nobody wants to freaking do that dungeon and a lot of times, I can’t get a party for other dungeons either. I can walk around in several maps for hours and see nobody. sPvP is complete and utter garbage to the point where I nearly hate it. My experience in WoW is obviously different from yours, even though I don’t understand how, and my experience in GW2 is again, obviously different. I would rather play Call of Duty with 10 year olds every day for a month than play another patch like the ones that Anet has been dishing out.

I think all the MMOs share the same end game activities: farming for unuseful objects to show to your friends. What can you do with an Unique weapon with 9999 power if there is no challange for it? Same thing everywhere. I think that implementing Guild wars can make a real difference for the end game.

Gehenna.3625:

Well a single player game is done when you complete the campaign. MMOs go on after that.

So what would you call content for when you’ve reached max level and finished the campaign?

You want to do the same stuff over and over again or would you want different activities?

See, no matter what you call it, endgame or max level content or whatever…the point of an MMO is that you can play together with people on a long term basis.

If there is nothing new once you hit max level, then most people will get bored on a relatively short term. That is a bit counterproductive for an MMO.

I’m all for new content. It just shouldn’t be implemented in a way that makes all other content completely irrelevant. LS has been treading dangerously close to doing that (Crown Pavilion, invasion meta-events), especially with this latest release. It’s a very delicate balancing act, but I feel it can get done right without compromising the concepts that make Guild Wars 2 what it is and what makes it different from the rest.

Most of what I see as suggestions basically boil down to “let’s bring WoW’s endgame over to GW2” which not only does exactly that (makes previous content irrelevant), but flies in the face of everything that we’ve been told GW2 wouldn’t be at least two years before it was even released.

Too many people picked up this game without learning about it first, and made assumptions on what it would offer simply because it said “MMO” on the box. Complaining that there’s no gear treadmill-esque “endgame” akin to other MMOs is really no different than picking up a copy of Street Fighter IV and claiming it’s not a “real” fighting game because there’s no 8-way run.

Bring in more dungeons, or more areas, hey that’s great. Just don’t make it so that everyone’s funneled into them to the point where nobody’s doing anything else anymore.

Zoid.2568:

GW2 endgame is zerging. You zerg everywhere, zerg wvw, zerg open world, zerg here, zerg there. Can you revamp the content and make the game zergless?
I don’t think people want to mindless zerg. I assume we want strategy to be a big part of the gameplay…or wasn’t that the intention of GW2 combat?

zerging is the symptom, not the disease.

GW2’s disease…I mean endgame, is farming gold like a chinese slave. period. there’s nothing more to it.

The only way to end zerging is to hide challenging rewarding content behind instances…

Edit: pve only, there really is no solution to WvW zerging

milo.6942:

i don’t see any real cure for zergs when damage > all.

You can have strategic approach even with one aspect of combat (in this case, damage).

It’s just a case of forcing players in the zerg to:

• take note of mechanics
• organise
• have mechanics that discourage zerging

For example:

• Have the mechanics of the event scale with the number of people. Using the Shatterer’s healing crystals as an example, have one spawn for every 4 people that attend, and have them spawn in random places.
• Have meta events success depend on the success of multiple events at the same time, each with different objectives. Using the Shatterer as an example, one objective could be to protect the cannons, and repair when necessary, while another could be to gather shards of Branded crystal to power a weapon that keeps the Shatterer from going airborne. Due to the lack of voice communication, organization would need to take place in the pre-event.
• Have mechanics that make you aware of your allies position. Using the Shatterer as an example, have an AoE attack that does increased damage for all people in that area, or an 3-stage mechanic where the Shatterer first traps people inside crystals, and then launches a massive attack which can only be blocked by said crystals. However, said attack charges the crystals, and if they aren’t broken in a certain time-frame, the explode, dealing damage to everyone and Downing the person inside the crystal. While this mechanic can be dodged, if players don’t assume the role of getting trapped, then the attack cannot be blocked, while not freeing them in time would result in masses of players getting downed.

And this just comes from the damage aspect.

Throw in some aspects of CC and support as well, and you got a fight that requires notice of the mechanics, and some degree of organization.

Ok,.. There is nothing wrong with zerging… not when its meant to face a huge enemy in a large escale event. Dragon fights, Temple fights, etc… or the current live event. Zergs on invasions are extremely fun (daily reviver its easy with all the zerklings dead around Air pirates lol).

…but for regular farming, to have a 24/7 farm trains with dozens of players just rushing to the next mob… its seriously NOT ok. Show that to any MMO player from any other game and anyone will be like: “wth!?”, show it to anynone who just bought the game: “This is what you will be doing at 80” and he will have second thoughts about having bought this game.

Don’t say its the player base, a player base is like a bunch of monkeys, they are just after bananas. It is ANet that has to place the bananas in a fashion way for the monkeys to have fun.

Ricky Da Man.5064:

The only way to end zerging is to hide challenging rewarding content behind instances…

Edit: pve only, there really is no solution to WvW zerging

This. Which i am in full favor of. 5 man groups are more social, more fun and require you to use at least half your brain.

DusK.3849:

I’m all for new content. It just shouldn’t be implemented in a way that makes all other content completely irrelevant. LS has been treading dangerously close to doing that (Crown Pavilion, invasion meta-events), especially with this latest release. It’s a very delicate balancing act, but I feel it can get done right without compromising the concepts that make Guild Wars 2 what it is and what makes it different from the rest.

Most of what I see as suggestions basically boil down to “let’s bring WoW’s endgame over to GW2” which not only does exactly that (makes previous content irrelevant), but flies in the face of everything that we’ve been told GW2 wouldn’t be at least two years before it was even released.

Too many people picked up this game without learning about it first, and made assumptions on what it would offer simply because it said “MMO” on the box. Complaining that there’s no gear treadmill-esque “endgame” akin to other MMOs is really no different than picking up a copy of Street Fighter IV and claiming it’s not a “real” fighting game because there’s no 8-way run.

Bring in more dungeons, or more areas, hey that’s great. Just don’t make it so that everyone’s funneled into them to the point where nobody’s doing anything else anymore.

leveling zones are already mostly irrelevant and funneling is what Anet does best at the moment. Some people still love it. My guess is that Anet is actually not capable of doing more because of existing restrictions in their resource management. Some people think that GW2 has sold so well that they have loads of money to throw at continued development. I think differently. They lack the tools and people to do it, that’s my guess.

the problem is that everything you’ve named isn’t even endgame. Zerging in open world isn’t endgame and zerging in pve’ish pvp (wvw) isn’t either. We don’t have any endgame yet, 1y after game’s launch still no endgame.

:D i wish we could do solo dungeon runs (and have it worth-while).

i would consider WvW endgame…. but that’s just me.

Raiding from WoW is an endgame, but it’s bad…. dislike the drama and the time commits (game effecting real life, bad)

Nuka Cola.8520:

1y after game’s launch still no endgame.

Endgame is dependent on the person.

There is no set, quantifiable list that says whether something is endgame or not. If this was the case, no-one would be playing at level 80. They’d stop as soon as they reached level cap.

If you put extrinsically rewarding content in the open world, zerging won’t go anwhere.

If you place equally rewarding content in instanced areas, or other aspects of the game, the zerg reduces in size.

But what happens when you add new content to end game- I wrote an entire essay about how the end game could be made. It is an alternative to all the things you’re complaining in this thread. Instead of just complaining, let’s take a more creative approach. Mine is like this:

I have reached max level. I have a guild, named A. The leader of my guild declares war to guild B. From that moment, the game gives me the option to participate in the current Guild War, or not. If I say yes, then the war starts. All the opponent guild members that participate to the war have their color changed in red, so they are enemies. The guild war takes place on Tyria map, when pressing M, I can see all my guild members that participate scattered on the map, as well as other objectives.
The Objectives- During the war(or even before it), my guild search for hidden artifacts, placed in secret dungeons, that give all my guild a buff. To be functional, the artifact need to be placed somewhere safe. Where? My guild can buy dungeons, and in those dungeons, the artifacts are kept. By spending gold or other currency, you can buy mobs, buy traps and place them in your dungeon, to prevent the other guild from stealing your artifacts. Every dungeon is divided in sectors. Within a sector, there is a limit of monsters you can put, depending on the creature power. By upgrading your dungeons, raising their levels, you could put there more mobs per sector or more powerful ones. A powerful mob uses the same amount of creature power as several less powerful mobs. 
While engaged in a guild war, it is a real danger for the player so while he is engaged, when he enters game firstly, after selecting the character, the game gives the option to warp to the last point where he disconnected, or choose checkpoint. This is because if you spawn alone, there is a posbility to get killed by a group of players of enemy guild. In menu, you could talk to the other guild members about a safe spawn location.
If you are killed for 5 times by a opponent guild player, you are automaticly kicked from the guild war, and all the enemy players appear for you as normal green players. In this case, you are worthless for the war. A guild wins the war when the opponent guild died for 5 times. 
For obtaining the artifacts, there could be also some interesting quests.
By winning a guild war, your guild gets experience, its level raises(the guild could gain level as in the case of players), and when the guild is higher level, new types of creatures, more powerful ones, are unlocked for buying.
Ah… I forgot…in the case of dungeons, in the bar, instead of skills, there are mobs that can be set. The numbers above show how many of each your guild has. When you or other member of your guild sets a mob, that number descreases.
In the end, there could also be objectives similar to the WvW ones…
Note that guild wars can be accessed only at level 80, when main quest is over. This is for raising the gameplay time.

10 player dungeons would be good

Zoid.2568:

GW2 endgame is zerging. You zerg everywhere, zerg wvw, zerg open world, zerg here, zerg there. Can you revamp the content and make the game zergless?
I don’t think people want to mindless zerg. I assume we want strategy to be a big part of the gameplay…or wasn’t that the intention of GW2 combat?

that is an important thing you said but it is not just for end game the problem is with the combat system and enemy AI.
instead of fixing Anet is encouraging zerg play with LS.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Nuka Cola.8520:

1y after game’s launch still no endgame.

Endgame is dependent on the person.

There is no set, quantifiable list that says whether something is endgame or not. If this was the case, no-one would be playing at level 80. They’d stop as soon as they reached level cap.

C’mon now… GW2 is known as a game without end game… don’t bring the ‘personal opinion’ into the conversation when your game’s end game (if you can even call it that) is zerging under 15fps in wvw. Wtkittend of end game is that???

Nuka Cola.8520:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Nuka Cola.8520:

1y after game’s launch still no endgame.

Endgame is dependent on the person.

There is no set, quantifiable list that says whether something is endgame or not. If this was the case, no-one would be playing at level 80. They’d stop as soon as they reached level cap.

C’mon now… GW2 is known as a game without end game… don’t bring the ‘personal opinion’ into the conversation when your game’s end game (if you can even call it that) is zerging under 15fps in wvw. Wtkittend of end game is that???

‘your game’s endgame’? Odd way of phrasing it, unless you’ve stopped playing, doomed to trawl the forums saying how much the game sucks.

I also like the part where you assume what I do at level 80.

For one, I don’t follow the zerg in WvW. Me and my mates go off on out own taking supply camps and, if we got the time, towers.

In PvE, I’ve still got exploration to do, as well as Fractals.

And while you might not consider that end-game, I do since, you know, I’m doing it at level cap.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Nuka Cola.8520:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Nuka Cola.8520:

1y after game’s launch still no endgame.

Endgame is dependent on the person.

There is no set, quantifiable list that says whether something is endgame or not. If this was the case, no-one would be playing at level 80. They’d stop as soon as they reached level cap.

C’mon now… GW2 is known as a game without end game… don’t bring the ‘personal opinion’ into the conversation when your game’s end game (if you can even call it that) is zerging under 15fps in wvw. Wtkittend of end game is that???

‘your game’s endgame’? Odd way of phrasing it, unless you’ve stopped playing, doomed to trawl the forums saying how much the game sucks.

I also like the part where you assume what I do at level 80.

For one, I don’t follow the zerg in WvW. Me and my mates go off on out own taking supply camps and, if we got the time, towers.

In PvE, I’ve still got exploration to do, as well as Fractals.

And while you might not consider that end-game, I do since, you know, I’m doing it at level cap.

don’t think i even need to add anything when you consider the casual empty open world as end game. Its actually impressive that some people in this game (mainly on this forum) find end game in gw2 when gaming sites, almost every single person you’ll ask in game if they like the gw2’s end game will answer “LOL gw2 has end game? WHERE”, devs themselves said lev80 content is lacking (which did nothing else but add fractals LOL) and you find it ‘fine’ as is? hah. Enjoy that ‘exploration’!

Nuka Cola.8520:

don’t think i even need to add anything when you consider the casual empty open world as end game.

Arrogant much?

Where in the definition of end-game does it say it has to be for uber leet players, or instanced content?

Nuka Cola.8520:

Its actually impressive that some people in this game (mainly on this forum) find end game in gw2 when gaming sites, almost every single person you’ll ask in game if they like the gw2’s end game will answer “LOL gw2 has end game? WHERE”,

Going back to my comment where ‘endgame is dependent on the person’ is a prime example of this.

Think for a moment, if you will. They could add level 80 exclusive content, but if I don’t do it, why would I consider it endgame?

Same with content that is in the game. If I’m doing it and enjoying it at level cap, I’m going to consider said content as my endgame.

Now please tell me how I’m wrong.

Nuka Cola.8520:

devs themselves said lev80 content is lacking (which did nothing else but add fractals LOL) you find it ‘fine’ as is? hah. Enjoy that ‘exploration’!

Please, go ahead and quote where I said:

• endgame is fine as it is
• nothing more needs to be added as endgame
• anything remotely like the above

Drawing ‘endgame is fine as it is’ from ‘I consider x, y and z as my endgame’ is a straw-man argument.