Guild boon disabled for non-HoT players

Guild boon disabled for non-HoT players

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Posted by: Farming Flats.5370

Farming Flats.5370

In the old system we had guild boon for everyone in the guild : 10% bonus XP , Karma , gathering stuff like that …

Today it’s now called ‘’ Guild Enhancement ’’ you get by upgrading your Guild Hall.
You need to talk to the Bartender in the tavern to get the guild boon.

Problem is … this is disabled for non-HoT players. It’s a simple boon .. why such a thing is disabled for non-HoT players ? non-HoT players can’t get guild bonus but there is no problem for them to interact with the Treasury and donate to the guild that’s why I think it has no common sense to lock the guild bonus. Is this is intended ??

If non-HoT players don’t have access to the new stuff like the scribe or the Arena , OK it’s fine and you are right …But i have a problem with the stuff we already had and now you are removing it from non-HoT players.

Guild Bonuses for every member in the guild was part of the core game.
Let the non-HoT players interact with the bartender and get the Guild Enhancements.

reddit discussion :
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3rydkz/guild_boon_disabled_for_nonhot_players/

So far, there are some interesting reflections and answers.

Attachments:

(edited by Farming Flats.5370)

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Posted by: BrooksP.4318

BrooksP.4318

Gotta love paywalls.

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Posted by: PyrateSilly.4710

PyrateSilly.4710

So things for buying the expansion that those that don’t buy it don’t get? I am not seeing the problem here ……

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Posted by: Gwalchgwn.1659

Gwalchgwn.1659

So things for buying the expansion that those that don’t buy it don’t get? I am not seeing the problem here ……

The problem is that these things were available in the core game… It’s not something new that they don’t have acces to but something they once had got removed.

Ring of Fire
GL – “The Afternoon’s Watch” [OATH]

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Posted by: Farming Flats.5370

Farming Flats.5370

So things for buying the expansion that those that don’t buy it don’t get? I am not seeing the problem here ……

Let me put this in other words … If before you had a bank tab with the core game , i remove it , then you have to pay to get it back via a Xpac .. how do you feel ??

This is what currently happens with guild bonuses.

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Posted by: Lethalvriend.1723

Lethalvriend.1723

I think the vendor probably allows access to other things aswell, one way to fix this would be to move the boons to a different NPC or something. That way they can keep the NPC HoT-restricted but still allow core players to make use of the old boons.

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Posted by: Ryptel.5196

Ryptel.5196

That is just literally insane that a company is producing a product and providing incentive for customers to pay money for that product.

I mean, we are all entitled to full access to someone else’s livelihood without paying for it. I have this argument every time I need to fly somewhere and I call a taxi. Since my wife normally drives me to the airport, why should I need to pay for the taxi?

It’s complete elitism and infringes my freedom and needs to stop.

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Posted by: SpyderArachnid.5619

SpyderArachnid.5619

That is just literally insane that a company is producing a product and providing incentive for customers to pay money for that product.

I mean, we are all entitled to full access to someone else’s livelihood without paying for it. I have this argument every time I need to fly somewhere and I call a taxi. Since my wife normally drives me to the airport, why should I need to pay for the taxi?

It’s complete elitism and infringes my freedom and needs to stop.

Think before you speak. You missed the entire point.

The boons were available pre-HoT for all players to use. Now they were removed, even if you had them before, you lost access to them. Now you have to buy HoT in order to access something you already had.

A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.
Lady Bethany Of Noh – Chronomancer – Lords of Noh [LoN]

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Posted by: Wolfheart.1879

Wolfheart.1879

That is just literally insane that a company is producing a product and providing incentive for customers to pay money for that product.

I mean, we are all entitled to full access to someone else’s livelihood without paying for it. I have this argument every time I need to fly somewhere and I call a taxi. Since my wife normally drives me to the airport, why should I need to pay for the taxi?

It’s complete elitism and infringes my freedom and needs to stop.

Except those with the core game DID pay for it. Anywhere up to 3 and a half years ago.
This isn’t something thats been added to the game that core players think they deserve. As with a couple of other things, they’ve removed something available to players on the core game, just to stick it back behind HoT.

HoT should be strong enough and offer enough features and perks compared to the core game to entice people to buy it, without having to take things that were already available, then stick them behind HoT. HoT should add things, and good on it for doing so, but it shouldn’t mean core players are deprived of what they already had.

Divinity’s Reach is home to some top-tier criminal masterminds.
The kind of people who will set an orphanage on fire after locking themselves inside it.

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

They also moved all the WvW buffs (like +5 supply) out of the core game and into HoT. It’s a pretty shady move.

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Posted by: Firebaall.5127

Firebaall.5127

What we should really be complaining about….something that I haven’t seen anybody mention:

The new guild buffs can only be used one at a time. You have to choose which buff is active. That’s a huge nerf.

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Posted by: BrooksP.4318

BrooksP.4318

That is just literally insane that a company is producing a product and providing incentive for customers to pay money for that product.

I mean, we are all entitled to full access to someone else’s livelihood without paying for it. I have this argument every time I need to fly somewhere and I call a taxi. Since my wife normally drives me to the airport, why should I need to pay for the taxi?

It’s complete elitism and infringes my freedom and needs to stop.

Cannibalizing old content and restricting it to new content isn’t providing incentive, it’s a dodgy business tactic to fluff a lackluster product.

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Posted by: Lillis.9473

Lillis.9473

I think the vendor probably allows access to other things aswell, one way to fix this would be to move the boons to a different NPC or something. That way they can keep the NPC HoT-restricted but still allow core players to make use of the old boons.

The vendor in question, the bartender, only offers guild boons. Given that they have put the bartender in the guild building in LA, where anyone can reach him, makes me think they meant everyone to have access. Why else would he be there? He literally doesn’t do anything else..

This is probably (hopefully) a bug.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

What we should really be complaining about….something that I haven’t seen anybody mention:

The new guild buffs can only be used one at a time. You have to choose which buff is active. That’s a huge nerf.

It’s also completely intentional.

The old system was a constant influence sink to keep up buffs. It’s major problem was that it was trivial to maintain for large guilds, and impossible to maintain for small guilds.

The new system is a front loaded cost, but once it is paid it’s done. This makes it a more accessible system for guilds of all sizes. large guilds may get the upgrades done sooner, but small guilds that take a little longer still have the same access to those buffs.

The old system was initially designed so that you couldn’t afford to have everything at once due to the ongoing costs, but the design was kind of broken by large guilds. The new system is much closer to the intent of the design, while making it more accessible and customizable for all guilds and their members.

The entire guild system revamp was done to reward players tackling economic and content challenges together in a way that’s compelling for guilds of all sizes, and rewards them well. The influence system, and by extension the old buff and banner acquisition model was funkitten tally broken specifically because past certain point as your guild grew, they didn’t just become easier to get. They became essentially free due to all the login and passive inf from people just playing the game, even if every one of them was playing completely alone all the time. meanwhile smaller guilds under the old system could play together every day and still get nowhere near the amount of benefit from their guild.

As for non-HoT players not being able to access HoT services. Honestly, guild halls are part of the expansion. I’m suprised they let those players donate to the treasury or enter the hall in the first place. It’s a buy to play game. It’s not unreasonable to expect that people buy the occasional “required” expansion to gain the lion’s share of content and benefits when that means there are not monthly fees or seemingly “required” cash shop items.

The more you give away for free, the less expansion revenue is gained, and you have to make that money somewhere, which in turn means pushing the gem store much more agressively. The expansion model as a one time equal cost is far more fair to the consumer than predatory and annoying practices like black lion keys to drive revenue.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

(edited by PopeUrban.2578)

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Posted by: Farming Flats.5370

Farming Flats.5370

answer to my ticket on this :

GM Hellsign (Guild Wars 2 Support)
Nov 5, 13:22

Hello ( insert my real name )

Thank you for contacting Guild Wars 2 support.

With the expansion a lot of things have changed and will keep growing. The decision of making some buffs exclusive for Heart of Thorns players was taken by the Developers, therefore, we can only suggest that you start a thread on the official forums since the Dev team read them daily and they would be able to review your request regarding this.

If you need assistance with anything else, let us know.

Regards,

GM Hellsign
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://help.guildwars2.com/

This make me think it was intentional .. not a bug.

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Posted by: SqualZell.7813

SqualZell.7813

let me make an analogy

you pay 10$ for a gym membership (i know that’s cheap) that gives you access to all their machines and weights.
one day they upgrade the gym and include a swimming pool. to access the swimming pool you need to pay 10$ extra to access it.

But you don’t know how to swim so you don’t need to pay the 10$ extra to use the pool. so you keep paying your 10$.

Except now you can’t use the weights either on the gym floor, you can only use the machines. If you want to use the weights you need to pay for the pool

that is what is happening with HoT and the guild bonuses.
you paid 50$ to get the core that included guild bonuses.
you are not interested in the expansion so they remove the guild bonuses.

they did something similar to fractals.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

let me make an analogy

you pay 10$ for a gym membership (i know that’s cheap) that gives you access to all their machines and weights.
one day they upgrade the gym and include a swimming pool. to access the swimming pool you need to pay 10$ extra to access it.

But you don’t know how to swim so you don’t need to pay the 10$ extra to use the pool. so you keep paying your 10$.

Except now you can’t use the weights either on the gym floor, you can only use the machines. If you want to use the weights you need to pay for the pool

that is what is happening with HoT and the guild bonuses.
you paid 50$ to get the core that included guild bonuses.
you are not interested in the expansion so they remove the guild bonuses.

they did something similar to fractals.

To use your analogy, what they actually did was remove the freeweight room, and replace it with a pool, then ask you for a one time fee to help cover the cost of the pool. You can still use the gym, just not the pool, and nobody can use the freeweight room because it no longer exists.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: vespers.1759

vespers.1759

Well the kitten poor content in HoT isn’t going to sell the expansion so you need to kitten over the people that didn’t buy.

kittenty game design 101

I still haven’t preordered.

Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.

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Posted by: PyrateSilly.4710

PyrateSilly.4710

I still haven’t preordered.

Well since the game is already live it’s no wonder you can’t pre-order

I pre-purchased a while ago and have been having a blast in it.

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Posted by: vespers.1759

vespers.1759

I still haven’t preordered.

Well since the game is already live it’s no wonder you can’t pre-order

HoT isn’t a preorder? You must be “having a blast” in raids… owait… Maybe you’re using a swag new legendary weapon… owait… Maybe you’re playing awesome new WvW features?… owait…

Also on a thread related note, i’m doing map completion and taking bets on whether or not it’ll be locked behind HoT too (and by extension legendary weapon crafting).

Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

They also moved all the WvW buffs (like +5 supply) out of the core game and into HoT. It’s a pretty shady move.

This bothers me because every citizen of a World should be equal. Those within a social clique (guild) should not have a greater capacity to contribute or priority. Just another example of why there’s a general erosion and lack of building of World communities.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Koomaster.9176

Koomaster.9176

Have to agree on this one. Guild buffs should be available to everyone in a guild no matter what tier of player they are, f2p, base, HoT.

Hoping it’s just an oversight and will be corrected or addressed soon.

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Posted by: Zioba.6182

Zioba.6182

What we should really be complaining about….something that I haven’t seen anybody mention:

The new guild buffs can only be used one at a time. You have to choose which buff is active. That’s a huge nerf.

It’s also completely intentional.

The old system was a constant influence sink to keep up buffs. It’s major problem was that it was trivial to maintain for large guilds, and impossible to maintain for small guilds.

The new system is a front loaded cost, but once it is paid it’s done. This makes it a more accessible system for guilds of all sizes. large guilds may get the upgrades done sooner, but small guilds that take a little longer still have the same access to those buffs.

The old system was initially designed so that you couldn’t afford to have everything at once due to the ongoing costs, but the design was kind of broken by large guilds. The new system is much closer to the intent of the design, while making it more accessible and customizable for all guilds and their members.

The entire guild system revamp was done to reward players tackling economic and content challenges together in a way that’s compelling for guilds of all sizes, and rewards them well. The influence system, and by extension the old buff and banner acquisition model was funkitten tally broken specifically because past certain point as your guild grew, they didn’t just become easier to get. They became essentially free due to all the login and passive inf from people just playing the game, even if every one of them was playing completely alone all the time. meanwhile smaller guilds under the old system could play together every day and still get nowhere near the amount of benefit from their guild.

As for non-HoT players not being able to access HoT services. Honestly, guild halls are part of the expansion. I’m suprised they let those players donate to the treasury or enter the hall in the first place. It’s a buy to play game. It’s not unreasonable to expect that people buy the occasional “required” expansion to gain the lion’s share of content and benefits when that means there are not monthly fees or seemingly “required” cash shop items.

The more you give away for free, the less expansion revenue is gained, and you have to make that money somewhere, which in turn means pushing the gem store much more agressively. The expansion model as a one time equal cost is far more fair to the consumer than predatory and annoying practices like black lion keys to drive revenue.

With the old system it was possible to earn influence just playing together. Even a small guild of a few friends that just enjoyed to do some stuff together was able to get some buffs running with that. Sadly you are completly missing the point, that small guilds, even some medium sized guilds, will never get past that " but once it is paid it’s done" point. So i don’t know wich game you are playing, but the GW2 HOT i am playing is not “making it more accessible and customizable for all guilds and their members”. The GW2 HOT I am playing just took away any chance for my little guild to ever get those buffs running again, since we are only a few friends playing together and none of us is called “Krösus”.
We just gave up to have those things.
Usually an “Add on” adds things to an existing game for the players that buy it. HOT is in fact the only “Add on” that i EVER played that REMOVES existing stuff for players that didn’t buy the “Add on”

Sarcasm is what’s left when all hope is gone

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Posted by: BIGHARSHNESS.3510

BIGHARSHNESS.3510

let me make an analogy

you pay 10$ for a gym membership (i know that’s cheap) that gives you access to all their machines and weights.
one day they upgrade the gym and include a swimming pool. to access the swimming pool you need to pay 10$ extra to access it.

But you don’t know how to swim so you don’t need to pay the 10$ extra to use the pool. so you keep paying your 10$.

Except now you can’t use the weights either on the gym floor, you can only use the machines. If you want to use the weights you need to pay for the pool

that is what is happening with HoT and the guild bonuses.
you paid 50$ to get the core that included guild bonuses.
you are not interested in the expansion so they remove the guild bonuses.

they did something similar to fractals.

To use your analogy, what they actually did was remove the freeweight room, and replaced it with a pool, then asked you for a one time fee to help cover the cost of the pool. You can still use the gym, just not the pool, and nobody can use the freeweight room because it no longer exists.

This is the best analogy of what happened.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

They also moved all the WvW buffs (like +5 supply) out of the core game and into HoT. It’s a pretty shady move.

The +5 supply is part of WvW Abilities; it’s available to anyone with 145 ability points, including non-HoT players. (You can get smaller +supply increases with as little kitten points.)

The other two WvW buffs are also available to non-HoT: power of the mists works the same as it did pre-launch. And guild buffs are more powerful than they were before; they apply generally, rather than only when you claim a structure.


In terms of the original post:

Today it’s now called ‘’ Guild Enhancement ’’ you get by upgrading your Guild Hall.
You need to talk to the Bartender in the tavern to get the guild boon.

Problem is … this is disabled for non-HoT players.

I can’t test this — are you saying that the bartender in the Guild Initiative Hall in LA won’t speak to guild members, unless they own HoT? That sounds like a bug to me, not an intended feature.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Kraggy.4169

Kraggy.4169

That is just literally insane that a company is producing a product and providing incentive for customers to pay money for that product.

I mean, we are all entitled to full access to someone else’s livelihood without paying for it. I have this argument every time I need to fly somewhere and I call a taxi. Since my wife normally drives me to the airport, why should I need to pay for the taxi?

It’s complete elitism and infringes my freedom and needs to stop.

whoosh

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Posted by: Kraggy.4169

Kraggy.4169

The entire guild system revamp was done to reward players tackling economic and content challenges together in a way that’s compelling for guilds of all sizes

Wrong, small guilds are totally screwed by this change, they lost all the perks they used to ahve and aren’t able to get a guild hall and get back what HOT took away.

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Posted by: Shukriyya.7629

Shukriyya.7629

They also moved all the WvW buffs (like +5 supply) out of the core game and into HoT. It’s a pretty shady move.

The +5 supply is part of WvW Abilities; it’s available to anyone with 145 ability points, including non-HoT players. (You can get smaller +supply increases with as little kitten points.)

Lord Kuru was talking about the guild consumable +5 supplies, which enabled players who had access to both to carry 20 supplies. The guild +5 is locked behind many, many upgrades in the war room and needs the guild to be level 37, which makes it pretty much inaccessible to small roaming guilds who are not extremely rich.

It is an immensely valuable wvw upgrade that many of us lost because it was put behind a paywall, so maybe y’all can see now why wvw players who are in small guilds are not exactly fans of the new system.

Back to the original topic: I really don’t see why it would be so bad for non-HoT players to have access to guild boons. Give them back what they had before HoT.

RoF

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Posted by: Paavotar.3971

Paavotar.3971

To use your analogy, what they actually did was remove the freeweight room, and replace it with a pool, then ask you for a one time fee to help cover the cost of the pool. You can still use the gym, just not the pool, and nobody can use the freeweight room because it no longer exists.

More like they removed the freeweight room and replaced the weights with new weights that work the same but look a bit different and put them into the pool area so that only the ones who bought the access to pool can use them.

ANet took a mechanic from core game, modified it a bit and put it behind HoT purchase, and that is what most of us non-HoT players are not OK with. We are being stripped from mechanics we had before.

A Pink scumbag of [FACE] and deep inside a [GuM]ster
Mouggari – Warrior – Candy cane Avenger

(edited by Paavotar.3971)

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Posted by: One Prarie Outpost.4860

One Prarie Outpost.4860

Well the kitten poor content in HoT isn’t going to sell the expansion so you need to kitten over the people that didn’t buy.

kittenty game design 101

I still haven’t preordered.

You don’t have it but you know the content is poor?

Oh… do tell!

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Posted by: vespers.1759

vespers.1759

That being said , Vespers , as a non-Hot player ,how do you feel now that you can no longer have Guild Boons ?

I don’t like it at all. I feel a good expansion provides content that makes people want to buy the expansion, instead of taking away core mechanics to force people to buy it.

Fractal rewards nerfed, dungeon rewards nerfed, guild buffs nerfed… it’s all about devaluing the core game to make HoT seem more appealing. We’ve had these things for year and suddenly on the eve of the exapnsion oops suddenly they get “shifted” to other areas.

I would actually love to buy the expansion because i like the game, but i can’t in good conscience buy it before i think it is finished and before i see that the content makes it worth 5/6th the price of the base game.

what we have now is a clear case of desperation from Anet. They’ve released a completely unfinished expansion with many core features like raids still a complete mystery and they’ve admitted they didn’t include many features they wanted to ex: WvW. Now they promise these things will be added but so far they’ve haven’t materialized. What has materialized is a general nerf of the core game.

Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.

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Posted by: Helequin.2608

Helequin.2608

As a guild officer with HoT purchased, there is only one judgement I can pass on this type of “feature.”

Irredeemably Disgusting.

Ignoring how HoT is a complete reverse of “play your way” and the very free roaming feeling that made GW2 successful into a linear series of content gates and largely linear maps (seriously, getting to most anywhere is a case of find that one specific path, not explore around and jump/climb/glide/fall along some intuitive or freeform route), removing features from GW2 Core and placing them behind HoT is business practice of the worst kind.

I hope ANet sees this thread and puts this right. Nothing should have been taken from GW2 Core and made HoT exclusive, even if there were changes to how it worked. Anything gated off in such a way needs to be fixed so that it is again accessible to customers who own GW2 Core but not HoT. That is in fact the definition of ANet’s vaunted buy to play – once bought the customer has it. Putting it behind a second paywall is…oh…very much like that thing called a subscription, at least to a certain degree.

There is a short time window for ANet to get this fixed, and avoid being an example of “how not to encourage sales of any further expansions.”

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

What we should really be complaining about….something that I haven’t seen anybody mention:

The new guild buffs can only be used one at a time. You have to choose which buff is active. That’s a huge nerf.

It’s also completely intentional.

The old system was a constant influence sink to keep up buffs. It’s major problem was that it was trivial to maintain for large guilds, and impossible to maintain for small guilds.

The new system is a front loaded cost, but once it is paid it’s done. This makes it a more accessible system for guilds of all sizes. large guilds may get the upgrades done sooner, but small guilds that take a little longer still have the same access to those buffs.

The old system was initially designed so that you couldn’t afford to have everything at once due to the ongoing costs, but the design was kind of broken by large guilds. The new system is much closer to the intent of the design, while making it more accessible and customizable for all guilds and their members.

The entire guild system revamp was done to reward players tackling economic and content challenges together in a way that’s compelling for guilds of all sizes, and rewards them well. The influence system, and by extension the old buff and banner acquisition model was funkitten tally broken specifically because past certain point as your guild grew, they didn’t just become easier to get. They became essentially free due to all the login and passive inf from people just playing the game, even if every one of them was playing completely alone all the time. meanwhile smaller guilds under the old system could play together every day and still get nowhere near the amount of benefit from their guild.

As for non-HoT players not being able to access HoT services. Honestly, guild halls are part of the expansion. I’m suprised they let those players donate to the treasury or enter the hall in the first place. It’s a buy to play game. It’s not unreasonable to expect that people buy the occasional “required” expansion to gain the lion’s share of content and benefits when that means there are not monthly fees or seemingly “required” cash shop items.

The more you give away for free, the less expansion revenue is gained, and you have to make that money somewhere, which in turn means pushing the gem store much more agressively. The expansion model as a one time equal cost is far more fair to the consumer than predatory and annoying practices like black lion keys to drive revenue.

With the old system it was possible to earn influence just playing together. Even a small guild of a few friends that just enjoyed to do some stuff together was able to get some buffs running with that. Sadly you are completly missing the point, that small guilds, even some medium sized guilds, will never get past that " but once it is paid it’s done" point. So i don’t know wich game you are playing, but the GW2 HOT i am playing is not “making it more accessible and customizable for all guilds and their members”. The GW2 HOT I am playing just took away any chance for my little guild to ever get those buffs running again, since we are only a few friends playing together and none of us is called “Krösus”.
We just gave up to have those things.
Usually an “Add on” adds things to an existing game for the players that buy it. HOT is in fact the only “Add on” that i EVER played that REMOVES existing stuff for players that didn’t buy the “Add on”

I don’t know what your experience is like, but my small guild, with an average of 3-6 active players a day…

  • Runs 5+ guild missions a week, and can re-run them for people that weren’t there for the first time to make sure they all get rewards.
  • Has the same buffs as larger guilds, and doesn’t have to constantly feed gold to the influence system to maintain them.
  • Actually allows my more PvP focused members to actively contribute to the guild without requiring them to repeat a lot of content they don’t like.
  • Has the ability to ignore the guild system for long stretches of time without also losing the benefits we’ve earned because we have to keep up a strict schedule of influence gain on a daily basis to keep up production of banners, buffs, and guild missions.
  • Isn’t required to farm the most efficient means of influence gain endlessly, every single day for the guild to still provide every member tangible benefit.

Your results may vary, but this has made all of those systems much more accessible and fun to interact with for my guild. Now, if your definition of “small guild” is two people, then yes, you have lost opportunities if you’re not willing to take one day to team up with the really large number of other such guilds that just want to get their claim out of the way.

You’re in no way cut off from the system. You’re not willing to invest effort in your guild, and you’d prefer it return to a passive system where you just got stuff for playing the same way you’d be playing without a guild If my small guild can, as of right now, have a functioning guild hall with four t1 buildings and a couple buffs, I’m sure you could as well if you were willing to invest effort in to the guild you claim is so important to you.

If the complain is the incentive to buy HoT, I don’t know what to tell you. Campaign anet if you like, but the fact is you’ve had the ability to play the game with zero additional cost for three years, and recieved a massive number of free content updates in that time. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask people to pony up a little bit of required rather than optional gem store cost after that amount of time.

It would be awesome if we could all play the game for free and get every content update and feature forever. It is, however, not an economic reality unless they push much harder on the cash shop.

If I have to choose between buying an expansion every couple of years, or having even more of the game’s rewards and content locked behind nickel and dime cash shop approaches, I choose the expansion model.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: Paavotar.3971

Paavotar.3971

If the complain is the incentive to buy HoT, I don’t know what to tell you. Campaign anet if you like, but the fact is you’ve had the ability to play the game with zero additional cost for three years, and recieved a massive number of free content updates in that time. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask people to pony up a little bit of required rather than optional gem store cost after that amount of time.

It would be awesome if we could all play the game for free and get every content update and feature forever. It is, however, not an economic reality unless they push much harder on the cash shop.

If I have to choose between buying an expansion every couple of years, or having even more of the game’s rewards and content locked behind nickel and dime cash shop approaches, I choose the expansion model.

People are not wanting free content. We want to have mechanics back we already had aka guild buffs.

As a member of a guild that has Guild Hall, I’m not even able to claim the buff it provides. I’m totally locked out of a mechanic I once had in Core game.

Nobody is upset that the core game didn’t get much stuff on the expansion apart from profession “balance” changes etc. People are upset because ANet took something from them and put it behind HoT purchase.

We don’t want free stuff. We want the stuff back we already had for 3 years.

And if they are doing it now, what is stopping them from doing it again in the next expansion. If this keeps going the core game will have it’s game mechanic reduced, little by little over time.

A Pink scumbag of [FACE] and deep inside a [GuM]ster
Mouggari – Warrior – Candy cane Avenger

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Posted by: Mobott.5908

Mobott.5908

I still haven’t preordered.

Well since the game is already live it’s no wonder you can’t pre-order

HoT isn’t a preorder? You must be “having a blast” in raids… owait… Maybe you’re using a swag new legendary weapon… owait… Maybe you’re playing awesome new WvW features?… owait…

Also on a thread related note, i’m doing map completion and taking bets on whether or not it’ll be locked behind HoT too (and by extension legendary weapon crafting).

Nah, but I am having a blast with my elite spec, and with the new PvE content (and the gliding), and the story, and the Revenant, and so on…

(edited by Mobott.5908)

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Posted by: Jigain.8231

Jigain.8231

It is, as many have stated, NOT a case of “we want the new stuff for free”, it’s a case of “we want the old stuff which we already paid for without having to pay for it again”.

Guild Banners were in the game at the time of release, on the 28th of August 2012. In other words, guild buffs – whether swiftness, experience, karma, gathering, or anything in between – are and always have been a core game mechanic. What has changed since? They can be obtained at a new location, and for longer, and they are one-time unlocks. Does this change the mechanic of guild buffs, that is, reaping the rewards from coming together as a group? It does not. Neither location, duration, or which screen you unlock them on does not change the fact that getting there is a guild collaboration for guild-wide rewards, which is what guild buffs have been about since day one.

The guild buffs have not changed, and yet they’re locked behind a paywall. One that some people can’t motivate paying up for. I’m not one of them – I own the expansion, I have a level 80 Revenant, I’ve got guild XP buffs activated on all my nine characters. But I also have what so many others seem to lack – maybe it just hasn’t dropped from Tequatl or Shadow Behemoth yet, maybe it’s not been unlocked in the PvP reward track yet. That thing is compassion. Compassion for all of those who still don’t feel like a handful of maps, a 4-5 hour story, a new class with very limited skill customizability and a few new specs for the existing classes is worth as much as a brand-new triple-A title with over a hundred hours of gameplay to its name. These people just want to play this game like when they bought it. Why is that so wrong?

If any ArenaNet personnel read this, I implore you. Let those playing the core game do so with the core game content. Don’t lock it behind a paywall, no matter how large or small. Show compassion for those with thin wallets, with too few hours to the day, or with a thousand other reasons not to buy the expansion just yet. Let guild buffs belong to the guild, not to the jungle.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Jigain

This post may contain a high concentration of sarcasm and irony.
If you are allergic to these ingredients, do not consume.

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Posted by: Ixillius.5768

Ixillius.5768

This is horrible for more than one reason. It sucks twice as bad for people who actually went out of their way to donate for these boosts.

Ontop of that; why make it a consumable in the first place, instead of a passive buff? This whole enhancement system needs a rework!

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Posted by: Rpgtabbycat.5869

Rpgtabbycat.5869

Not sure what I think on this, TBH. Used to players could set up one person guilds and then buy influence for gold from vendors to upgrade their guilds. It would not surprise me if some people spent money on gems to convert to gold for the sole purpose of purchasing influence to upgrade their guilds. So now Anet is out that money that was potentially spent on gems. Plus those people are annoyed with the way that Anet changed things and refused to buy the expansion based on principle.

It seems to me that ArenaNet is losing money on that deal.

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Posted by: Zioba.6182

Zioba.6182

“I don’t know what your experience is like, but my small guild, with an average of 3-6 active players a day…”

Tell me how you get a guild to lvl 37 with that to unlock the +5 buff. Tell me how to get materials worth over 20k of gold with that.

Is it posible? Yes, with an enourmeous effort. Just to get BACK what we HAD for 3 years.

Sarcasm is what’s left when all hope is gone

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Posted by: Hannelore.8153

Hannelore.8153

Here’s a simple analogy for people who don’t get it?

Imagine that you have played a character for three years, then you log in one day, and the character is level 1, and all of his bags are gone, and all of his items are gone. He has no gold with which to buy any replacements, and when he works hard to earn gold to go buy replacements he’s told that he needs five people to craft and equip fine quality gear, and a few dozen more people to craft his exotics.

So he makes entirely new friends since his old ones don’t have the expo, gets them to help him level, gather gold and make all of his gear, and then once he is finally geared up he can go back to enjoying the content that he always had access to.

That is what has happened to guilds.

Daisuki [SUKI] LGBT-Friendly Guild Leader | NA – Jade Quarry
I’m usually really sweet… but this an internet forum and you know how it has to be.
/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/

(edited by Hannelore.8153)

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Posted by: Lunacy Solacio.6514

Lunacy Solacio.6514

“I don’t know what your experience is like, but my small guild, with an average of 3-6 active players a day…”

Tell me how you get a guild to lvl 37 with that to unlock the +5 buff. Tell me how to get materials worth over 20k of gold with that.

Is it posible? Yes, with an enourmeous effort. Just to get BACK what we HAD for 3 years.

I commented on something similar and was told I was ‘entitled’ and wanted everything in a week.

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Posted by: Mr Quinn.9815

Mr Quinn.9815

All my Guild buffs are gone … can I have them back without buying HoT?

it’s a simple question.

this notice was brought to you by a Misguided Misfit

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

All my Guild buffs are gone … can I have them back without buying HoT?

it’s a simple question.

Unfortunately, the answer is simple as well: no.

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Posted by: Hedge.8760

Hedge.8760

That is also what happened to fractal rewards. You need masteries to get full rewards from fractals.. which are HoT only. Rewards that you paid for in full when you purchased GW2, but are now locked away.

Overall, this is most likely Anets new business strategy going forward.

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Posted by: Reknarok.7582

Reknarok.7582

business decision is business decision

they’re not trying to screw people over, they made a decision they thought was good for the game to be able to continue to run and were potentially wrong, ask them to put it back. but don’t go spouting how shady and backhanded they were. you’ve been given literally 3 years of a substantial amount of content for a very, very, very reasonable sum. i get that you want stuff back that you once had, but to all of a sudden essentially throw a tantrum and call them names over it? cmon seriously

and to that special guy saying the content sucks yet hasn’t bought it, just lol

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Posted by: Helequin.2608

Helequin.2608

The thing is, a change like this is shady. It is underhanded. It is questionable business practice.

Think for a moment. A non-MMO game which did something like this, pulling a feature out of the original game and then shoving it behind a DLC or expansion, would become a laughing stock and be ridiculed into either reversing the decision or death. There’s a good reason very few games I can recall ever attempt such a move, and I’ve never seen it turn out well for the game.

To be clear, I am not accusing ANet of being underhanded, shady or intending to swindle their players. They had a lot of development work to do, a lot of decisions to make and also needed to implement all of them in a way that worked. There could be any number of reasons why the system landed in the form it did. That does not alter the fact that the change to the system itself is a shady one, even if it was never intended that way.

So, now is ANet’s time to show their quality. The problem has been seen and posted about here, and as Jigain above posted it is on ANet to show compassion and understanding and fix what is a broken system. Right now, we get to see ANet’s intentions towards their players based on their response (or lack of).

On the purely business side, a paywall of this type is more likely to disgust and push players away than incentivize HoT. A reputation for suddenly dropping paywalls over previously purchased content is not something to be regarded lightly, no matter how small that content.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

they’re not trying to screw people over

You are mistaken.

They intentionally took an action.

That action, “screws people over.”

They knew that the action would screw people over.

This means that they intentionally screwed people over. They may have thought that the benefits would outweigh the negative consequences but that doesnt alter the fact that the consequences were intentionally imposed.

If you know that doing X will result in Y and you intentionally do X anyway then you are choosing to do Y as well.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

To all the people complaining “we want back what we had”

Whether you bought HoT or not The old buff system is gone, and everyone lost it.

The reason it is gone is the same reason you can’t gain influence any more, the same reason the new upgrade system runs on materials and aetherium, and the same reason guild missions are free to run and don’t require any unlocks.

They reworked the entire guild system from the ground up to make it more focused on directed effort, and less focused on passive gains and endless sinks, and more focused on permanent unlocks with larger costs.

You lost the old buff system. You also lost the requirement to constantly farm influence for buffs. You also lost the requirement to dump obscene amounts of influence in to the guild mission system. You also lost being penalized by losing guild missions possibly preventing you from affording buffs.

Tradeoffs were made in the new system.

Specifically, those tradeoffs were made in the direction of permanent rewards and unlocks, and it is for that reason the old buff system was retired. That level of buffs, all stacked together was a completely broken system that was completely inaccessible for small guilds and trivial for large ones.

I don’t see anyone complainig they “lost” their guild mission unlocks, or that they “lost” the ability to waste influence by failing them. That’s really what you’re complaining about here. You “lost” a system that required constant upkeep at an impossible level for small guilds, and zero upkeep for large guilds and in return got a system of permanent, scaling unlocks that only differ in the rate of acquisition, but require zero upkeep once earned

Of course the old system would be completely broken if it stacked buffs the way the new one does. That is why they changed it in the first place. It was completely busted in a way that conferred a massively superior advantage just for having a large guild. Not for doing anything with that large guild mind you but just for having a lot of guild members while being completely unaccessible or prohibitively expensive as a constant influence sink for smaller guilds.

How does that not appear broken to you?

Complain about the “paywall” of HoT all you like, but every single system in HoT was derived from player feedback, and the fact HoT even exists as a bundled expansion in stead of free releases is also derived from player feedback. We told arenanet that we wanted expansions. It wasn’t in their plans for the game. Now they’ve gone to all the effort to create a meaty expansion and want to incentivize its purchase. Did it not occur to you people that the expansion model would lock some features behind an expansion purchase?

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

(edited by PopeUrban.2578)

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

We don’t want free stuff. We want the stuff back we already had for 3 years.

^That’s what’s really real.

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

To all the people complaining “we want back what we had”

Whether you bought HoT or not The old buff system is gone, and everyone lost it.

The reason it is gone is the same reason you can’t gain influence any more, the same reason the new upgrade system runs on materials and aetherium, and the same reason guild missions are free to run and don’t require any unlocks.

They reworked the entire guild system from the ground up to make it more focused on directed effort, and less focused on passive gains and endless sinks, and more focused on permanent unlocks with larger costs.

You lost the old buff system. You also lost the requirement to constantly farm influence for buffs. You also lost the requirement to dump obscene amounts of influence in to the guild mission system. You also lost being penalized by losing guild missions possibly preventing you from affording buffs.

Tradeoffs were made in the new system.

Specifically, those tradeoffs were made in the direction of permanent rewards and unlocks, and it is for that reason the old buff system was retired. That level of buffs, all stacked together was a completely broken system that was completely inaccessible for small guilds and trivial for large ones.

I don’t see anyone complainig they “lost” their guild mission unlocks, or that they “lost” the ability to waste influence by failing them. That’s really what you’re complaining about here. You “lost” a system that required constant upkeep at an impossible level for small guilds, and zero upkeep for large guilds and in return got a system of permanent, scaling unlocks that only differ in the rate of acquisition, but require zero upkeep once earned

Of course the old system would be completely broken if it stacked buffs the way the new one does. That is why they changed it in the first place. It was completely busted in a way that conferred a massively superior advantage just for having a large guild. Not for doing anything with that large guild mind you but just for having a lot of guild members while being completely unaccessible or prohibitively expensive as a constant influence sink for smaller guilds.

How does that not appear broken to you?

Complain about the “paywall” of HoT all you like, but every single system in HoT was derived from player feedback, and the fact HoT even exists as a bundled expansion in stead of free releases is also derived from player feedback. We told arenanet that we wanted expansions. It wasn’t in their plans for the game. Now they’ve gone to all the effort to create a meaty expansion and want to incentivize its purchase. Did it not occur to you people that the expansion model would lock some features behind an expansion purchase?

That doesn’t excuse the fact it shouldn’t be behind HoT’s paywall. I can donate gold and materials to my guild but can’t get the buffs? Nah son. No thanks. High-End Fractals(Core game content)hidden behind HoT’s paywall. Dungeons, nerfed. All of this wasn’t done to stream line stuff. It was to not so gently nudge people towards buying HoT. It’s gross. Now, if they had added 2 Fractal levels that were HoT themed with HoT I would have no issue with that. Instead, they added no new Fractal COntent and put what was supposed to be in the “Fractured” update 2 years ago(!)behind the HoT paywall. I take umbrage with that. The buffs are the same thing. Sure, fix the system, but then to gate that system behind HoT after we already had access to something similar? Again, no thanks.

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall