Guild Wars 2

People wanted more player skill progression. more dynamic events and new zones to open up.

So if I was to put myself in ANets shoes I would have done some of that. Not back pedal on core philosophies that attracted the player base, then push more chips into the gamble during the back lash.

I don’t know how a game that’s not really normal (not casual) player friendly anymore can be alt friendly.

TheJokester.4672:

content motivates me to play not gear in vertical progression changing my look motivates me to play add new and differing skins with new content and you will keep MANY players and gain many too I could be called a skin kitten I always wanted/want what I think looks cool but its the content I have to do to get it that will keep me and atm gw2 is grind fest champ training that kitten es me off and makes me want to break my freaking monitor and commit suicide

Anet did the same with much of the content. In the beginning most could be done on every character (once per character per day) and now much has been converted to once per account per day.

I didn’t even use most of the coins I did get from SAB 2 so reward was not the main reason I went in there but it for sure helps to give the content some extra reason to go do that content and being rewarded for it.

And then there still is the problem of this game being currency driven and gold being the most important currency. But going on a lower level alt gets you less gold and in that way punish you for doing that.

Gibson.4036:

Azreell.1568:

This game does not offer enough depth or “power” gear progression to keep ‘hardcore" player’s happy.

This point needs to be made more often.

During my hiatus from GW2, I have been beta testing in some other MMORPGs. On the forums for both games there are the inevitable conversations where each person shares their MMORPG history and why they no longer play the games they once did.

A common refrain from former GW2 players is that the game offered no gear progression after level cap. ArenaNet did an about face with their gear plateau vision to try and keep those people, but it failed. They didn’t see the implementation of ascended and say, “Oh, guess I can go back to GW2 and give it another go”.

ArenaNet attempted a compromise, a “best of both worlds” approach, and ended up with the worst of both worlds.

We have gear progression so shallow that it is not going to bring back the players who are used to ever increasing loot tiers, but grindy enough to annoy and frustrate every player who was excited about the idea of a gear plateau.

This ^^^

Xae Isareth.1364:

Let’s all take a step back and look at why Ascended gear was made in the first place, because I don’t think it was made so Anet can tick off everyone.

If you look back yo the game at launch, it worked straight off the GW1 model: BiS at 80 and gear progression is purely cosmetic. But did it work? No. People left the gane en mass and complained that there was nothing to work towards.

Now put yourself in Anet’s shoes. What would you make of this situation? There’s clearly a ton of cosmetics to get, so its very ligical to imply people wanted some form of VP. Then we got all the complaints that people thought crafting was useless. This the logical solution was to introduce a sticking factor in a light optional VP through crafting.

I don’t really know who was the genius who decided it was to make Ascended 500 instead of 400, but you can understand why Ascended is there.

Cosmetic progression did work. It worked for the people that didn’t want vertical progression. But then the traditional MMO crowd started crying, so Anet’s response was to add ascended gear.

In GW1 there was a special mob that would cast Spectral Agony. This condition couldn’t be removed and it caused rapid health degen. At one point you completed a quest to infuse your armor and make Spectral Agony less of a threat. No special gear needed. Anet could’ve done something similar for Fractals, or even give Exotics a slot for infusions. Ascended gear didn’t even need to exist.

This may come as a surprise to some, but trying to appeal to different audiences is usually a bad idea. In the end, many GW1 players left because Anet threw away the core principles of what made the original game so great, and the people who wanted proper vertical progression went back/to other games that do it better.

What would I do if I was in Anet’s shoes? I would’ve stood by the idea of horizontal progression, and politely tell the vertical progression crowd to look elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with that.

Tru Reptile.6058:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Let’s all take a step back and look at why Ascended gear was made in the first place, because I don’t think it was made so Anet can tick off everyone.

If you look back yo the game at launch, it worked straight off the GW1 model: BiS at 80 and gear progression is purely cosmetic. But did it work? No. People left the gane en mass and complained that there was nothing to work towards.

Now put yourself in Anet’s shoes. What would you make of this situation? There’s clearly a ton of cosmetics to get, so its very ligical to imply people wanted some form of VP. Then we got all the complaints that people thought crafting was useless. This the logical solution was to introduce a sticking factor in a light optional VP through crafting.

I don’t really know who was the genius who decided it was to make Ascended 500 instead of 400, but you can understand why Ascended is there.

Cosmetic progression did work. It worked for the people that didn’t want vertical progression. But then the traditional MMO crowd started crying, so Anet’s response was to add ascended gear.

In GW1 there was a special mob that would cast Spectral Agony. This condition couldn’t be removed and it caused rapid health degen. At one point you completed a quest to infuse your armor and make Spectral Agony less of a threat. No special gear needed. Anet could’ve done something similar for Fractals, or even give Exotics a slot for infusions. Ascended gear didn’t even need to exist.

This may come as a surprise to some, but trying to appeal to different audiences is usually a bad idea. In the end, many GW1 players left because Anet threw away the core principles of what made the original game so great, and the people who wanted proper vertical progression went back/to other games that do it better.

What would I do if I was in Anet’s shoes? I would’ve stood by the idea of horizontal progression, and politely tell the vertical progression crowd to look elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with that.

Well said. Exactly as I described earlier, the split design principles have turned GW2 into a messy jack of all trades, master of none.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Yeah for pve players it doesn’t matter. But I am not one of those. I fight things that hit back (real people) and when you face someone that has the same skillevel as you, and they have more stats, armor, and weapon damage, they will beat you.

If I played this game for PvE I would never even think about getting any ascended armor.

GW2 is not alt friendly for WvW players. That better?

You’re close. However, in WvW, I can be geared in all whites, and still win. There are two things that determine wins: Skill, and zerg size. Skill is far superior than gear. If you feel having a slight stat increase will guarantee you victories, you severely underestimate how good WvW players can be. As for zergs, you can run naked, and still survive.

What server are you playing on out of curiosity?

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Yeah for pve players it doesn’t matter. But I am not one of those. I fight things that hit back (real people) and when you face someone that has the same skillevel as you, and they have more stats, armor, and weapon damage, they will beat you.

If I played this game for PvE I would never even think about getting any ascended armor.

GW2 is not alt friendly for WvW players. That better?

You’re close. However, in WvW, I can be geared in all whites, and still win. There are two things that determine wins: Skill, and zerg size. Skill is far superior than gear. If you feel having a slight stat increase will guarantee you victories, you severely underestimate how good WvW players can be. As for zergs, you can run naked, and still survive.

What server are you playing on out of curiosity?

I’m on Maguuma. The #1 skilled NA server in WvW. We can go toe to toe with Black Gate, so long as we’re awake.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Yeah for pve players it doesn’t matter. But I am not one of those. I fight things that hit back (real people) and when you face someone that has the same skillevel as you, and they have more stats, armor, and weapon damage, they will beat you.

If I played this game for PvE I would never even think about getting any ascended armor.

GW2 is not alt friendly for WvW players. That better?

You’re close. However, in WvW, I can be geared in all whites, and still win. There are two things that determine wins: Skill, and zerg size. Skill is far superior than gear. If you feel having a slight stat increase will guarantee you victories, you severely underestimate how good WvW players can be. As for zergs, you can run naked, and still survive.

What server are you playing on out of curiosity?

I’m on Maguuma. The #1 skilled NA server in WvW. We can go toe to toe with Black Gate, so long as we’re awake.

Oh man.

Jrunyon.3012:

Asia Skyly.7198:

Do away with Soulbound items in favor of account bound items, and you have a point.

And destroy plenty of markets in the process?

No.

Um….soul bound gear has no market except the Mystic Forge or a salvage kit….what market are you referring to, crafting?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Yeah for pve players it doesn’t matter. But I am not one of those. I fight things that hit back (real people) and when you face someone that has the same skillevel as you, and they have more stats, armor, and weapon damage, they will beat you.

If I played this game for PvE I would never even think about getting any ascended armor.

GW2 is not alt friendly for WvW players. That better?

You’re close. However, in WvW, I can be geared in all whites, and still win. There are two things that determine wins: Skill, and zerg size. Skill is far superior than gear. If you feel having a slight stat increase will guarantee you victories, you severely underestimate how good WvW players can be. As for zergs, you can run naked, and still survive.

What server are you playing on out of curiosity?

I’m on Maguuma. The #1 skilled NA server in WvW. We can go toe to toe with Black Gate, so long as we’re awake.

This explains a lot. If you think a person in white items can beat a player of equal skill in ascended items, you’re delusional…. but I already knew that from reading this post.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Let’s all take a step back and look at why Ascended gear was made in the first place, because I don’t think it was made so Anet can tick off everyone.

If you look back yo the game at launch, it worked straight off the GW1 model: BiS at 80 and gear progression is purely cosmetic. But did it work? No. People left the gane en mass and complained that there was nothing to work towards.

Now put yourself in Anet’s shoes. What would you make of this situation? There’s clearly a ton of cosmetics to get, so its very ligical to imply people wanted some form of VP. Then we got all the complaints that people thought crafting was useless. This the logical solution was to introduce a sticking factor in a light optional VP through crafting.

I don’t really know who was the genius who decided it was to make Ascended 500 instead of 400, but you can understand why Ascended is there.

I understand why Ascended is here, but I don’t think it’s as simple as you make it.

While there are a lot of cosmetic armors, most of them are not considered endgame looks, because they can be gotten prior to 80. The endgame armor sets were: crafted; temple (same look for all); racial T3’s; order; the dungeon sets; and Invader’s. Of those, only dungeon and racial are in any way hard to get. For a cosmetic endgame, there would have had to be way more options, more of which conveyed prestige.

Further, the Transformation Crystal approach fostered the mindset that players should settle for one look. If there had been more robust, hard to obtain options and a system that made multiple looks convenient (like a wardrobe), there would have been a lot less complaints about nothing to pursue.

As has been noted many times, Ascended displeased those who wanted a stat plateau, and did little to retain traditional MMO fans who wanted hard content tied to stat progression. FotM could have appealed to the latter, but some Ascended items cannot be gotten there, and it took too long for new fractals to be added.

If Ascended was about retaining the raid tier crowd, why was it implemented as it was? Ascended was essentially a compromise that was implemented as is to try to retain people who wanted goals. Ascended was implemented as is to also try to retain other players who objected to stat increases tied to hard content.

Rather than provide more endgame prestige looks, ANet opted for a much less resource intensive shallow stat progression. That, I believe, is the real reason we have Ascended gear.

Tru Reptile.6058:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Let’s all take a step back and look at why Ascended gear was made in the first place, because I don’t think it was made so Anet can tick off everyone.

If you look back yo the game at launch, it worked straight off the GW1 model: BiS at 80 and gear progression is purely cosmetic. But did it work? No. People left the gane en mass and complained that there was nothing to work towards.

Now put yourself in Anet’s shoes. What would you make of this situation? There’s clearly a ton of cosmetics to get, so its very ligical to imply people wanted some form of VP. Then we got all the complaints that people thought crafting was useless. This the logical solution was to introduce a sticking factor in a light optional VP through crafting.

I don’t really know who was the genius who decided it was to make Ascended 500 instead of 400, but you can understand why Ascended is there.

Cosmetic progression did work. It worked for the people that didn’t want vertical progression. But then the traditional MMO crowd started crying, so Anet’s response was to add ascended gear.

In GW1 there was a special mob that would cast Spectral Agony. This condition couldn’t be removed and it caused rapid health degen. At one point you completed a quest to infuse your armor and make Spectral Agony less of a threat. No special gear needed. Anet could’ve done something similar for Fractals, or even give Exotics a slot for infusions. Ascended gear didn’t even need to exist.

This may come as a surprise to some, but trying to appeal to different audiences is usually a bad idea. In the end, many GW1 players left because Anet threw away the core principles of what made the original game so great, and the people who wanted proper vertical progression went back/to other games that do it better.

What would I do if I was in Anet’s shoes? I would’ve stood by the idea of horizontal progression, and politely tell the vertical progression crowd to look elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with that.

That’s exactly the problem: they’ll look elsewhere. Gw2 isn’t just a game, it’s also a product and a business which feeds the mouths of every employee in Arenanet.

It needs players playing it and paying for it to survive. Sticking to philosophies is great, it gains you a reputation and a lot of respect. But when your philosophy is going to make your business go bust, put millions of dollars and 5 years of work to waste, and make hundreds of people lose their jobs, it’s time to abandon that philosophy.

It worked for GW1 but GW1 didn’t need the budget that GW2 needs, and the times change, meaning that what worked back then might not nessecarily work now.

@ post above. There was also a whole load of other stuff like Legendaries and skins which took a monstrous number of rare mats to make. There were also FotM skins before Ascended weapons came along.

I don’t know why there isn’t raids or hardcore PvE content, but that’s a design decision on their behalf.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Yeah for pve players it doesn’t matter. But I am not one of those. I fight things that hit back (real people) and when you face someone that has the same skillevel as you, and they have more stats, armor, and weapon damage, they will beat you.

If I played this game for PvE I would never even think about getting any ascended armor.

GW2 is not alt friendly for WvW players. That better?

You’re close. However, in WvW, I can be geared in all whites, and still win. There are two things that determine wins: Skill, and zerg size. Skill is far superior than gear. If you feel having a slight stat increase will guarantee you victories, you severely underestimate how good WvW players can be. As for zergs, you can run naked, and still survive.

What server are you playing on out of curiosity?

I’m on Maguuma. The #1 skilled NA server in WvW. We can go toe to toe with Black Gate, so long as we’re awake.

This explains a lot. If you think a person in white items can beat a player of equal skill in ascended items, you’re delusional…. but I already knew that from reading this post.

It’s done on a daily basis in our WvW. You’ll see the occasional Maguuman without armor standing over the downed body of enemies. You don’t need armor when you’re skilled enough to evade attacks. That’s why I say the Skill > Gear.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Yeah for pve players it doesn’t matter. But I am not one of those. I fight things that hit back (real people) and when you face someone that has the same skillevel as you, and they have more stats, armor, and weapon damage, they will beat you.

If I played this game for PvE I would never even think about getting any ascended armor.

GW2 is not alt friendly for WvW players. That better?

You’re close. However, in WvW, I can be geared in all whites, and still win. There are two things that determine wins: Skill, and zerg size. Skill is far superior than gear. If you feel having a slight stat increase will guarantee you victories, you severely underestimate how good WvW players can be. As for zergs, you can run naked, and still survive.

What server are you playing on out of curiosity?

I’m on Maguuma. The #1 skilled NA server in WvW. We can go toe to toe with Black Gate, so long as we’re awake.

This explains a lot. If you think a person in white items can beat a player of equal skill in ascended items, you’re delusional…. but I already knew that from reading this post.

It’s done on a daily basis in our WvW. You’ll see the occasional Maguuman without armor standing over the downed body of enemies. You don’t need armor when you’re skilled enough to evade attacks. That’s why I say the Skill > Gear.

The rest of the story being that those dead enemies were AFK. I’m sure people frequently WvW naked and take down multiple enemies. You can’t just pull statistics out of the air either, though judging from other topics you’re also trolling for reactions, I have a feeling it’s a habit.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Tru Reptile.6058:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Let’s all take a step back and look at why Ascended gear was made in the first place, because I don’t think it was made so Anet can tick off everyone.

If you look back yo the game at launch, it worked straight off the GW1 model: BiS at 80 and gear progression is purely cosmetic. But did it work? No. People left the gane en mass and complained that there was nothing to work towards.

Now put yourself in Anet’s shoes. What would you make of this situation? There’s clearly a ton of cosmetics to get, so its very ligical to imply people wanted some form of VP. Then we got all the complaints that people thought crafting was useless. This the logical solution was to introduce a sticking factor in a light optional VP through crafting.

I don’t really know who was the genius who decided it was to make Ascended 500 instead of 400, but you can understand why Ascended is there.

Cosmetic progression did work. It worked for the people that didn’t want vertical progression. But then the traditional MMO crowd started crying, so Anet’s response was to add ascended gear.

In GW1 there was a special mob that would cast Spectral Agony. This condition couldn’t be removed and it caused rapid health degen. At one point you completed a quest to infuse your armor and make Spectral Agony less of a threat. No special gear needed. Anet could’ve done something similar for Fractals, or even give Exotics a slot for infusions. Ascended gear didn’t even need to exist.

This may come as a surprise to some, but trying to appeal to different audiences is usually a bad idea. In the end, many GW1 players left because Anet threw away the core principles of what made the original game so great, and the people who wanted proper vertical progression went back/to other games that do it better.

What would I do if I was in Anet’s shoes? I would’ve stood by the idea of horizontal progression, and politely tell the vertical progression crowd to look elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with that.

That’s exactly the problem: they’ll look elsewhere. Gw2 isn’t just a game, it’s also a product and a business which feeds the mouths of every employee in Arenanet.

It needs players playing it and paying for it to survive. Sticking to philosophies is great, it gains you a reputation and a lot of respect. But when your philosophy is going to make your business go bust, put millions of dollars and 5 years of work to waste, and make hundreds of people lose their jobs, it’s time to abandon that philosophy.

It worked for GW1 but GW1 didn’t need the budget that GW2 needs, and the times change, meaning that what worked back then might not nessecarily work now.

Anet released a statement not too long ago saying they make more than enough money from the gem store to support the game. So no, there is no reason to abandon their philosophy.

MrRuin.9740:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Yeah for pve players it doesn’t matter. But I am not one of those. I fight things that hit back (real people) and when you face someone that has the same skillevel as you, and they have more stats, armor, and weapon damage, they will beat you.

If I played this game for PvE I would never even think about getting any ascended armor.

GW2 is not alt friendly for WvW players. That better?

You’re close. However, in WvW, I can be geared in all whites, and still win. There are two things that determine wins: Skill, and zerg size. Skill is far superior than gear. If you feel having a slight stat increase will guarantee you victories, you severely underestimate how good WvW players can be. As for zergs, you can run naked, and still survive.

What server are you playing on out of curiosity?

I’m on Maguuma. The #1 skilled NA server in WvW. We can go toe to toe with Black Gate, so long as we’re awake.

This explains a lot. If you think a person in white items can beat a player of equal skill in ascended items, you’re delusional…. but I already knew that from reading this post.

It’s done on a daily basis in our WvW. You’ll see the occasional Maguuman without armor standing over the downed body of enemies. You don’t need armor when you’re skilled enough to evade attacks. That’s why I say the Skill > Gear.

The rest of the story being that those dead enemies were AFK. I’m sure people frequently WvW naked and take down multiple enemies. You can’t just pull statistics out of the air either, though judging from other topics you’re also trolling for reactions, I have a feeling it’s a habit.

No. The WvW banter was a just a temporary debate on how skill is more important that gear. As for trolling, how is that so when all my arguments are based on facts? Is it because you don’t like that I’m defending Anet using valid arguments?

Whenever you have a debate where one side is backed by facts, and the other is based on pure opinion and speculation, guess which side will always win.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

MrRuin.9740:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Yeah for pve players it doesn’t matter. But I am not one of those. I fight things that hit back (real people) and when you face someone that has the same skillevel as you, and they have more stats, armor, and weapon damage, they will beat you.

If I played this game for PvE I would never even think about getting any ascended armor.

GW2 is not alt friendly for WvW players. That better?

You’re close. However, in WvW, I can be geared in all whites, and still win. There are two things that determine wins: Skill, and zerg size. Skill is far superior than gear. If you feel having a slight stat increase will guarantee you victories, you severely underestimate how good WvW players can be. As for zergs, you can run naked, and still survive.

What server are you playing on out of curiosity?

I’m on Maguuma. The #1 skilled NA server in WvW. We can go toe to toe with Black Gate, so long as we’re awake.

This explains a lot. If you think a person in white items can beat a player of equal skill in ascended items, you’re delusional…. but I already knew that from reading this post.

It’s done on a daily basis in our WvW. You’ll see the occasional Maguuman without armor standing over the downed body of enemies. You don’t need armor when you’re skilled enough to evade attacks. That’s why I say the Skill > Gear.

The rest of the story being that those dead enemies were AFK. I’m sure people frequently WvW naked and take down multiple enemies. You can’t just pull statistics out of the air either, though judging from other topics you’re also trolling for reactions, I have a feeling it’s a habit.

No. The WvW banter was a just a temporary debate on how skill is more important that gear. As for trolling, how is that so when all my arguments are based on facts? Is it because you don’t like that I’m defending Anet using valid arguments?

Whenever you have a debate where one side is backed by facts, and the other is based on pure opinion and speculation, guess which side will always win.

Um.. do you follow politics at all?

Perception > facts. If enough people see a problem with something, then there is a problem.

Also, there are needs and there are needs. See, for example, “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs” you’ve picked an arbitrary level and said “this is what need means” but it’s not what need means for everyone else. Being able to functionally play the game is not enough to satisfy the “needs” of some players.

TooBz.3065:

Um.. do you follow politics at all?

Perception > facts. If enough people see a problem with something, then there is a problem.

Also, there are needs and there are needs. See, for example, “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs” you’ve picked an arbitrary level and said “this is what need means” but it’s not what need means for everyone else. Being able to functionally play the game is not enough to satisfy the “needs” of some players.

Exactly. That’s why I’ve also said that it’s the players who put these artificial demands on themselves, not Anet. Players make themselves alt unfriendly by wanting a lot of something that is hard to obtain.

Example

Player A: “I want Twilight, Dreamer, and Quip, but it takes too long to get them all. This game punishes players by setting the requirements too high.”

Player B: “I want full Ascended armor for all my characters, but it takes too long to get them all. This game punishes players by setting the requirements too high.”

As you can see, the argument is similar, and the result is the same. Once these players realize this, they’ll be much happier with having the gear that they can afford to have.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Once these players realize this, they’ll be much happier with having the gear that they can afford to have.

But that isn’t fun.

Gene Archer.8560:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Once these players realize this, they’ll be much happier with having the gear that they can afford to have.

But that isn’t fun.

Is the fun the journey to collecting mats and crafting BiS? Or is the fun in having the BiS?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Gene Archer.8560:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Once these players realize this, they’ll be much happier with having the gear that they can afford to have.

But that isn’t fun.

Is the fun the journey to collecting mats and crafting BiS? Or is the fun in having the BiS?

For most it’s the latter seeing as there is so much hate toward ascended things atm

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Is the fun the journey to collecting mats and crafting BiS? Or is the fun in having the BiS?

The problem isn’t what’s fun. The problem is what’s not fun, and that’s grind. Grind by it’s definition is not fun. Grind lacks mental stimulation due to its repetitive nature, stimulating content is what entertains people. When content becomes labeled as grind in someone’s mind that’s when the content itself is no longer fun, and literally the only reason people continuing do what they don’t find fun is toobtain something they will enjoy.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Is the fun the journey to collecting mats and crafting BiS? Or is the fun in having the BiS?

The fun is in having the BiS and using it to complete max level content. Crafting is not fun. Collecting the same mats over and over again is not fun.

It’s just a grind.

Shockwave.1230:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Is the fun the journey to collecting mats and crafting BiS? Or is the fun in having the BiS?

The problem isn’t what’s fun. The problem is what’s not fun, and that’s grind. Grind by it’s definition is not fun. Grind lacks mental stimulation due to its repetitive nature, stimulating content is what entertains people. When content becomes labeled as grind in someone’s mind that’s when the content itself is no longer fun, and literally the only reason people continuing do what they don’t find fun is toobtain something they will enjoy.

Ok. So what do you get if you eliminate the “grind”? Click a button and get Ascended gear, like a vending machine. Is that what you truly want?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ok. So what do you get if you eliminate the “grind”? Click a button and get Ascended gear, like a vending machine. Is that what you truly want?

You know what? At this point. It’s what I want at least. There’s nothing wrong with easy mode. There’s nothing wrong with just getting something. There’s no need to make getting BiS gear a challenge or hard. (And besides, BiS gear is supposed to be easy to get and non-grindy in this game. That was the stated design intention.)

The challenge should be in the content that the gear is used for, if there must be challenge.

Gene Archer.8560:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ok. So what do you get if you eliminate the “grind”? Click a button and get Ascended gear, like a vending machine. Is that what you truly want?

You know what? At this point. It’s what I want at least. There’s nothing wrong with easy mode. There’s nothing wrong with just getting something. There’s no need to make getting BiS gear a challenge or hard. (And besides, BiS gear is supposed to be easy to get and non-grindy in this game. That was the stated design intention.)

The challenge should be in the content that the gear is used for, if there must be challenge.

And this mindset is the problem. You don’t understand that by wanting everything handed to you, and completing your end game so quickly, that you eliminate a lot of the reasons to play this game. Then, you have no choice but to wait for Anet to release new content. This is partly the reason why we have bi-weekly updates. So many players had done everything this game had to offer, so to keep us happy, they gave us more content, but in piecemeal. That way, we don’t gobble it up in a week.

Players ate up content, and fully geared themselves in Exotics quickly. Anet saw this, and admitted that they weren’t prepared for how quickly we’d reach all their intended goals. Legendaries popped up within months of the game release too, something that should have taken over a year to make. With the artificial time gates in place, it forces you to stretch out your goals, and gives you a reason to work for something.

There are still ways to speed up the process. Anet gives people like you that option. But you have to pay a heavy price for instant gratification, as it’s also us players who determine how much we value Ascended mats on the Trading Post.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Shockwave.1230:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Is the fun the journey to collecting mats and crafting BiS? Or is the fun in having the BiS?

The problem isn’t what’s fun. The problem is what’s not fun, and that’s grind. Grind by it’s definition is not fun. Grind lacks mental stimulation due to its repetitive nature, stimulating content is what entertains people. When content becomes labeled as grind in someone’s mind that’s when the content itself is no longer fun, and literally the only reason people continuing do what they don’t find fun is toobtain something they will enjoy.

Ok. So what do you get if you eliminate the “grind”? Click a button and get Ascended gear, like a vending machine. Is that what you truly want?

Repeating something isn’t the same thing as grind. Grind involves repeating content, but is not the same as repeating content. Replay value, is important. Quality of content is important. Quantity of content will come with time, though it is inhibited by temporary content.

Providing 1 route to obtain something and limiting progress per attempt from 0% to a non-double digit percentage of progress is going to cause people to feel something is a grind. Providing 2 routes to obtain something means that small percentage can be the same and it feels less grindy. Providing 3 routes to obtain something means that small percentage feels even less grindy, hence dungeons (solid idea making multiple paths).

Even though there are multiple paths to gain progress towards something two things prevent people from participating.

1. One problem everyoen is experiencing, is that there is one most efficient way to obtain rewards, and so many people follow that most efficient way that it impacts the entire game economy and therefore impacts everyone playing.

2. The other problem people face is that content isn’t compelling enough (high enough quality) to feel worth doing. If people don’t feel the games content is compelling enough, then what happens is they either stop playing until it is, or if they feel compelled enough to go after rewards instead, they follow the most efficient path to get them, because if they’re going to do content they don’t feel is compelling they’re going to do the content that gets them the most quickly what they want.

To answer the question, no, I don’t want a vending machine.

What I want is either buffs to obtaining rewards across the board, or nerfs to existing farms to normalize the rewards/time investment.

I also want the removal of time gating, because all that does is put more money into the hands of people playing the TP, not people playing the game. It also limits the progress people can make who log on infrequently.

I also want an effective skill > time option for rewards so that people who don’t have time to play can learn how to play well in order to catch up to farmers, since they inflate the game economy and buffing rewards or nerfing farms across the board by itself won’t be enough to give players with less time a way to compete on a rewards level with players who have more time.

I also want ANet to disregard the gem exchange rate when making these decisions, and make these decisions with the players in mind instead of profit, because the fallback of everyone is that if you don’t have the time to spend then you can spend the money. This alienates everyone that has low time and low money, and at the very least since 97% of the United States population only holds 3% of the country’s wealth, and there are only single digit million amounts of accounts in GW2 whereas there are over 300 million people in the country, I’d imagine most of the country has other things to do with their time as well.

There’s probably other measures I want too, but this is all that’s rattling off my brain atm.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

And this mindset is the problem.

No, it’s not. You see it as a problem. But I see your mindset as a problem just as much.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t understand that by wanting everything handed to you, and completing your end game so quickly, that you eliminate a lot of the reasons to play this game.

World completion? WvW? PvP? Personal Story? Actual horizontal progression? (Had Anet actually done that) Skins? (Had Anet actually put a decent wardrobe system in and actually made enough skins for customization). Dungeons?

There’s plenty to do without needing to make gear a grindy and un-fun acquisition slog.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Then, you have no choice but to wait for Anet to release new content.

Which I’m fine with, quite frankly.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This is partly the reason why we have bi-weekly updates.

Which have been a buggy, zerg-filled mess. Quality > Quantity.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So many players had done everything this game had to offer, so to keep us happy, they gave us more content, but in piecemeal. That way, we don’t gobble it up in a week.

And its rate of release, piecemeal nature, and grindy nature has started to grate on the playerbase.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Legendaries popped up within months of the game release too, something that should have taken over a year to make. With the artificial time gates in place, it forces you to stretch out your goals, and gives you a reason to work for something.

No, it makes me look at how long everything will take, realize it’s not worth the time, and I head off for better games that don’t do that.

Putting aside the whole ascended issue given you guys are already dealing with that.

I would say that GW2 has a fair few features that aren’t Alt friendly, and are incredibly punishing/irritating to deal with, though it’s other features are largely quite friendly to alts.

Like the achievements system is good. But then you have the issue of where when you get a back piece you can only use it once, which kinda kils the enjoyment on achievements. Same with weapon skins. Buying two molten weapons is incredibly difficult, especially if they’re the same. And how for example, you have to do story mode dungeons on every character allover again, which is just.. Really irritating.

But other things, are good. Like how dungeon tickets are account bound, and inter accessible via the wallet. Or how PVP rank is account based.

There’s a few things they could probably buff up. I know WvW ranks are going to be account based which is great!

Shockwave.1230:

~~~snip~~~

You had a lot to say, and I’ll try to address them all.

1) Yes, better quality content is always appreciated. I think Anet does a good job providing new content that’s compelling enough to keep us going. In order to give us more quantity, the quality does suffer. But the silver lining here is that all the new content is free

2) It’s fine to have multiple routes to achieve something. But you must also take care in making sure that if you have too many routes, you can inadvertently make some paths pointless. Say they gave you five different ways to get a Legendary. Somehow, if one of those ways were so easy, then no one would do the other four.

3) The game economy is important. Gold sinks, like how you find in the TP, keeps the value of currency in check. If you made the Gem Exchange a static rate, it would be nice in the short term, but would be horrible long term. Why? Because players accumulate wealth over time. The more money they have in the future, the more then can afford to exchange. Then, not only do you have to deal with inflation, but also run the risk of losing microtransaction sales.

4) There’s no real way to help the Casual player who has little time to play this game. They must make the choice of either playing more, or learning to live with what they can afford. If you give access and wealth of a player who plays for hours daily, to a player who plays 1 hour a week, that would be unfair to the other. That sort of thing would invalidate all the hours the other player put into the game.

Gene Archer.8560:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

And this mindset is the problem.

No, it’s not. You see it as a problem. But I see your mindset as a problem just as much.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t understand that by wanting everything handed to you, and completing your end game so quickly, that you eliminate a lot of the reasons to play this game.

World completion? WvW? PvP? Personal Story? Actual horizontal progression? (Had Anet actually done that) Skins? (Had Anet actually put a decent wardrobe system in and actually made enough skins for customization). Dungeons?

There’s plenty to do without needing to make gear a grindy and un-fun acquisition slog.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Then, you have no choice but to wait for Anet to release new content.

Which I’m fine with, quite frankly.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This is partly the reason why we have bi-weekly updates.

Which have been a buggy, zerg-filled mess. Quality > Quantity.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So many players had done everything this game had to offer, so to keep us happy, they gave us more content, but in piecemeal. That way, we don’t gobble it up in a week.

And its rate of release, piecemeal nature, and grindy nature has started to grate on the playerbase.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Legendaries popped up within months of the game release too, something that should have taken over a year to make. With the artificial time gates in place, it forces you to stretch out your goals, and gives you a reason to work for something.

No, it makes me look at how long everything will take, realize it’s not worth the time, and I head off for better games that don’t do that.

If you look up the psychological makeup of MMO players, you’ll see that this mindset is exactly the reason why a lot of people quit games. You want everything here and now. Ok. But when you get everything you want, and no longer have any content left, you leave. Instant gratification: While it feels so good now, that feeling is only temporary. And once that feel good moment passes, reality hits, and then you ask yourself “what do I do now that I have everything I wanted?”

Anet is preventing that by stretching story lines out, and having BiS gear a long term goal. They’re trying to protect gamers from themselves in a way.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

That sort of thing would invalidate all the hours the other player put into the game.

How do you figure? That other person still has the wealth they accumulated. Nobody took it from them. Someone just got it easier, because they can’t be as devoted as the other person.

People without time shouldn’t be penalized for not having said time. Things shouldn’t have to take them that many more months or years to obtain in Guild Wars. Their goals and dreams should be just as feasible to complete in a decent amount of time as someone who has a stockpile of hours to throw away.

Gene Archer.8560:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

That sort of thing would invalidate all the hours the other player put into the game.

How do you figure? That other person still has the wealth they accumulated. Nobody took it from them. Someone just got it easier, because they can’t be as devoted as the other person.

People without time shouldn’t be penalized for not having said time. Things shouldn’t have to take them that many more months or years to obtain in Guild Wars. Their goals and dreams should be just as feasible to complete in a decent amount of time as someone who has a stockpile of hours to throw away.

Example: I spent 1,000 hours to get 500 Gold. The other player did the same thing, and got the same amount of Gold in 100 hours.

Question: How is that fair to me? Why am I penalized because the other player wants the same things that I have, only quicker and easier?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Shockwave.1230:

~~~snip~~~

4) There’s no real way to help the Casual player who has little time to play this game. They must make the choice of either playing more, or learning to live with what they can afford. If you give access and wealth of a player who plays for hours daily, to a player who plays 1 hour a week, that would be unfair to the other. That sort of thing would invalidate all the hours the other player put into the game.

Allowing players with little time and money the means to reasonably obtain almost anything is part of what made the first Guild Wars great. It wasn’t unfair there, it wouldn’t be here. The players with a lot of time that you think it’d be unfair to will always be ahead of the players with little time. I have no problem with that being the case, it makes sense. I’m just talking about closing the disparity of the gap that exists.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If you look up the psychological makeup of MMO players,

I will remind you that this game was not advertised to the average MMO player. It was advertised to those players who dislike the conventional MMO. This game was never meant for the typical WoW, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, Maple Story, Whatever other title you want here, player. It was meant for the player that isn’t a typical MMO player with a typical MMO mindset.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You want everything here and now. Ok. But when you get everything you want, and no longer have any content left, you leave. Instant gratification: While it feels so good now, that feeling is only temporary. And once that feel good moment passes, reality hits, and then you ask yourself “what do I do now that I have everything I wanted?”

I don’t know. Continue running around the world and playing the game with your guild/friends? Run dungeons, WvW, PvP? Just run around?

Shocking concept, I know.

I mean, what if I told you that people still play Elder Scrolls and Fallout even after completing everything there is to complete? I bet you wouldn’t believe me. I bet your mind would explode.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Anet is preventing that by stretching story lines out, and having BiS gear a long term goal.

And it’s only going to hurt them in the long run. It’s already starting to hurt them, if the CDI threads are anything to go by.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

They’re trying to protect gamers from themselves in a way.

That is a laughable comment at best. Gamers don’t need protected from themselves. If someone can’t create their own goals in a game after a point, then no game is ever going to hold their interest for an amount of time.

Shockwave.1230:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Shockwave.1230:

~~~snip~~~

4) There’s no real way to help the Casual player who has little time to play this game. They must make the choice of either playing more, or learning to live with what they can afford. If you give access and wealth of a player who plays for hours daily, to a player who plays 1 hour a week, that would be unfair to the other. That sort of thing would invalidate all the hours the other player put into the game.

Allowing players with little time and money the means to reasonably obtain almost anything is part of what made the first Guild Wars great. It wasn’t unfair there, it wouldn’t be here. The players with a lot of time that you think it’d be unfair to will always be ahead of the players with little time. I have no problem with that being the case, it makes sense. I’m just talking about closing the disparity of the gap that exists.

The game already has gear in place that a Casual player can get: Exotics. If you want BiS, you need to invest time to get them. By speeding up the process for Casuals, you then must speed up the process for Hardcore players. Then we have the problem of maximizing gear all over. Hardcore players will reach the goals too quickly, and will demand more progression. Then the cycle continues, with Anet having to consider another tier.

By gating things, both Casuals and Hardcore players move at the same speed. The major difference here is the cost of having all the materials required for the BiS gear. Hardcore players will be able to farm and “grind” out wealth to have mats. Casuals have access to the same content, albeit at a slower pace.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Example: I spent 1,000 hours to get 500 Gold. The other player did the same thing, and got the same amount of Gold in 100 hours.

Question: How is that fair to me? Why am I penalized because the other player wants the same things that I have, only quicker and easier?

But you weren’t penalized. None of your gold was taken away.

Furthermore, why does it bother you that someone got something easier than you did? You expect those without to make do and just be happy, but you’re clearly unable to be happy having what you have without being sure that nobody else has what you have in an easier manner.

You still have the gold or item. It hasn’t been taken away from you. What does it matter how someone else got their own, (short of something like hacking, obviously.) ?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The game already has gear in place that a Casual player can get: Exotics. If you want BiS, you need to invest time to get them.

Which, yet again, and please quit ignoring this, goes against the original stated intention of this game.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

By speeding up the process for Casuals, you then must speed up the process for Hardcore players. Then we have the problem of maximizing gear all over. Hardcore players will reach the goals too quickly, and will demand more progression.

Hardcore players are going to demand more progression no matter what. Making it take longer isn’t going to change that. And frankly, hardcore players aren’t supposed to be here. This was never the game for them. They have literally every other MMO out there.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Then the cycle continues, with Anet having to consider another tier.

Which they will have to do anyway now that they’ve pandered to the hardcore gear grinders.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Shockwave.1230:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Shockwave.1230:

~~~snip~~~

4) There’s no real way to help the Casual player who has little time to play this game. They must make the choice of either playing more, or learning to live with what they can afford. If you give access and wealth of a player who plays for hours daily, to a player who plays 1 hour a week, that would be unfair to the other. That sort of thing would invalidate all the hours the other player put into the game.

Allowing players with little time and money the means to reasonably obtain almost anything is part of what made the first Guild Wars great. It wasn’t unfair there, it wouldn’t be here. The players with a lot of time that you think it’d be unfair to will always be ahead of the players with little time. I have no problem with that being the case, it makes sense. I’m just talking about closing the disparity of the gap that exists.

The game already has gear in place that a Casual player can get: Exotics. If you want BiS, you need to invest time to get them. By speeding up the process for Casuals, you then must speed up the process for Hardcore players. Then we have the problem of maximizing gear all over. Hardcore players will reach the goals too quickly, and will demand more progression. Then the cycle continues, with Anet having to consider another tier.

By gating things, both Casuals and Hardcore players move at the same speed. The major difference here is the cost of having all the materials required for the BiS gear. Hardcore players will be able to farm and “grind” out wealth to have mats. Casuals have access to the same content, albeit at a slower pace.

Can’t understand. You want some grinding goals … You have legendaries, skins, achievement system, minis, cultural armor. What’s the problem ?
GW2 was advertised as a game where BiS gear statewise is pretty much STANDARD for top lvl. You don’t grind for it for eternity. You got it and go to WvW, fractals, other end game content.
I got exotics for all my alts, start actively playing WvW, dungeons, working towards legendary for one of the chars. And now I need to drop everything and start stupid robotic grind to get BiS for all my alts again (I’ll take like a year at best). I’m not doing this.

ANET, please make statement. Should I monitor news about changes to old manifesto or it will be grind fest from no on and I can go play other game ?

Gene Archer.8560:

I will remind you that this game was not advertised to the average MMO player. It was advertised to those players who dislike the conventional MMO. This game was never meant for the typical WoW, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, Maple Story, Whatever other title you want here, player. It was meant for the player that isn’t a typical MMO player with a typical MMO mindset.

This game was advertise to BOTH types of players. People who dislike conventional MMOs, and people who love it.

Gene Archer.8560:

I don’t know. Continue running around the world and playing the game with your guild/friends? Run dungeons, WvW, PvP? Just run around

Shocking concept, I know.

I mean, what if I told you that people still play Elder Scrolls and Fallout even after completing everything there is to complete? I bet you wouldn’t believe me. I bet your mind would explode.

And some people still play GW1. The point here is that when you achieve all your goals, the player tends to move on. Anet wants to prevent that by continuously giving us something to do. If players stay in the game, with stuff to do and goals to achieve, they’ll more likely do more microtransactions. The people who threaten to quit this game because they can’t have everything right away are the vocal minority.

Gene Archer.8560:

And it’s only going to hurt them in the long run. It’s already starting to hurt them, if the CDI threads are anything to go by.

Again, vocal minority. CDI threads do have some good suggestions. But asking for everything here and now for instant gratification is something Anet (or any game smart game company) will never do.

Gene Archer.8560:

That is a laughable comment at best. Gamers don’t need protected from themselves. If someone can’t create their own goals in a game after a point, then no game is ever going to hold their interest for an amount of time.

It’s understandable if you haven’t actually studied psychology and business. You see things from your perspective, which is fine. I see things from both sides, and fully understand the reason why businesses do things, and the mindset of customers. Why am I defending Anet so much? Because they’re looking out for us players. It servers two purposes: It makes us happy, and keeps us as customers. Happy customers are spending customers. And if we spending customers continue to spend month in and month out, then Anet is doing something right.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

As for trolling, how is that so when all my arguments are based on facts? Is it because you don’t like that I’m defending Anet using valid arguments?

Whenever you have a debate where one side is backed by facts, and the other is based on pure opinion and speculation, guess which side will always win.

I accept my own suggestions and problems with Ascended implementation as my own opinion which I am sure is shared with others. You view your own opinions as gospel truth and 100% fact in a blind defence mechanism. You bend the truths to being “facts” when they are not that at all. You also claim to be defending a company which is not being attacked. Suggestions are being made and you claim it an attack that must be defended. You would rather see them get no feedback except all rainbows and sunshine?
That is how you are trolling. This quote by you proves that in itself. You’re not backed by facts. You’re backed by your own version and view of what is absolute fact.
Maybe if you varied the argument a little bit instead of regurgitating the same bent “facts” and avoiding direct questions to you that challenge them in any way, there might have been an actual debate at hand. When one person avoids direct questions, statements and in their reply to such posts have no relation to what was even asked and instead posts something completely irrelevant to what was asked, do you have a debate? No, you have a forum troll looking to stir people up for no reason.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This game was advertise to BOTH types of players. People who dislike conventional MMOs, and people who love it.

But ultimately to people who don’t like the conventional MMO. Thus the whole thing where BiS was supposed to be easy to achieve.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

And some people still play GW1. The point here is that when you achieve all your goals, the player tends to move on. Anet wants to prevent that by continuously giving us something to do. If players stay in the game, with stuff to do and goals to achieve, they’ll more likely do more microtransactions.

So then do that with actual content and not gear-grinds. Bring out more skills and skins. Like what was originally supposed to happen. Horizontal progression rather than vertical grind.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Again, vocal minority.

Yes, yes. Vocal minority doesn’t matter. Blah blah blah. I’ve seen that tripe used in other forums, too. It’s a crappy argument at best.

I’d say the fact something like the CDI threads exist shows just how important the forums actually are.

But you of course will disagree. I expect nothing less of you at this point.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

But asking for everything here and now for instant gratification is something Anet (or any game smart game company) will never do.

Asking for easy BiS gear is not asking for everything, though. But feel free to ignore that fact.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The game already has gear in place that a Casual player can get: Exotics. If you want BiS, you need to invest time to get them. By speeding up the process for Casuals, you then must speed up the process for Hardcore players. Then we have the problem of maximizing gear all over. Hardcore players will reach the goals too quickly, and will demand more progression. Then the cycle continues, with Anet having to consider another tier.

By gating things, both Casuals and Hardcore players move at the same speed. The major difference here is the cost of having all the materials required for the BiS gear. Hardcore players will be able to farm and “grind” out wealth to have mats. Casuals have access to the same content, albeit at a slower pace.

You’re talking about what kind of carrot to give people on the stick. Give them the Guild Wars 1 model of progression. I played that game for 4k hours over it’s life and never finished the progression in that game, plus the content was compelling enough to make me want to play it with alts and there weren’t huge alt barriers like in GW2.

Shockwave.1230:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The game already has gear in place that a Casual player can get: Exotics. If you want BiS, you need to invest time to get them. By speeding up the process for Casuals, you then must speed up the process for Hardcore players. Then we have the problem of maximizing gear all over. Hardcore players will reach the goals too quickly, and will demand more progression. Then the cycle continues, with Anet having to consider another tier.

By gating things, both Casuals and Hardcore players move at the same speed. The major difference here is the cost of having all the materials required for the BiS gear. Hardcore players will be able to farm and “grind” out wealth to have mats. Casuals have access to the same content, albeit at a slower pace.

You’re talking about what kind of carrot to give people on the stick. Give them the Guild Wars 1 model of progression. I played that game for 4k hours over it’s life and never finished the progression in that game, plus the content was compelling enough to make me want to play it with alts and there weren’t huge alt barriers like in GW2.

There’s no point in responding to certain posters. If you look into someone’s post history it’s easy to see if they are worth responding to. Some are reasonable and worth talking to some are brick walls.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

By gating things, both Casuals and Hardcore players move at the same speed. The major difference here is the cost of having all the materials required for the BiS gear. Hardcore players will be able to farm and “grind” out wealth to have mats. Casuals have access to the same content, albeit at a slower pace.

So casuals and hardcore players move at the same speed but then you say casuals do it at a slower pace. You’re contradicting yourself.

And given the intermediate ascended items can be bought, the gating ensures nothing anyway. Hardcore players and those who play the TP with plenty of gold have bought themselves to full ascended gear in a day. So the gating is useless anyway.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

It’s understandable if you haven’t actually studied psychology and business. You see things from your perspective, which is fine. I see things from both sides, and fully understand the reason why businesses do things, and the mindset of customers. Why am I defending Anet so much? Because they’re looking out for us players. It servers two purposes: It makes us happy, and keeps us as customers. Happy customers are spending customers. And if we spending customers continue to spend month in and month out, then Anet is doing something right.

If they were looking out for the players they would let good quality updates keep us playing. Instead we get a cynical grind which has only been implemented to appeal to the OCDness of mmo gamers keeping them in the game and buying gems.

On the topic: I think GW2 is alt friendly when considering more stuffs are made accountbound, and the wallet system which makes spending for new toons easy. However one feature is permanently destroyed for alts, which is the ability to gear alts quickly/easily in BiS gear. REGARDLESS of how many ‘u dont need ascendeds’ post we see, the fact is some people will feel somewhat unhappy with this. This is the point of contention which ultimately decides for a person if it is alt friendly or otherwise.

On the ongoing stuff above, i would rather they just left the gear grinders in a ditch. after all so many other games do gear grinding, so let this be the place for people to play a game where BiS is not grind. of course this is not what we have now and im sure ‘facts’ will start coming as to why we need gear grinding, so… oh well.. what can we do?

I would still like to see the various Dungeon set runes made account bound kind of annoying for them to come out of the Mystic Forge as soul bound even though the token used to get them normally are account bound.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Example: I spent 1,000 hours to get 500 Gold. The other player did the same thing, and got the same amount of Gold in 100 hours.

Question: How is that fair to me?

I don’t know, you should ask TP flippers that got the same amount of gold in only few hours. Or the person that got the Dusk from MF while you got only yellows. Also, if you got those 500 gold in the beginning of the game, and he did it later on, then your gold was worth much more than his.

The fact of the matter is, the game has definitely become non-alt-friendly. Only a few months ago (before ascended weapons) I had all of my alts outfitted with exotics and I was enjoying swapping characters for Fractals / WvW and PVE often using different characters for different things…living world story, jumping puzzles, I ran with a different character almost daily and would swap in fractals if I needed a theif or Mesmer, or my guard…same in dungeons. After Ascended weapons came out, I found I was using the character that had the ascended weapon far more for “harder” content that I was using my other characters…Tequatl, etc….whenever I needed that extra little bit, I only had one character to choose from….now that there is ascended armor, it is going to narrow me down even further to one character….since I will most likely put the ascended armor on the same character that has the ascended weapons…to make a “best” character. It is sad for me since I genuinely like playing my other characters, but it is necessary. And yes, I know I can play my other characters still, but when I am doing dungeons, or fractals or even WvW with my guildmates and friends, I owe it to them to put my best effort forward to help the group…and that means now I am stuck with a single character for all of this.

I would have MUCH more preferred a horizontal progression…add some really incredible looks to things (imaging a smoking black armor, or one that glowed like a star), these looks could have been extremely time-gated and could have required the same grind to work for as ascended and etc…they would have still given me something to work for…but not meant I couldn’t still play my other characters when I wanted to…because all of my characters would have still been “equal”.

This would have been infinitely preferable in my opinion…since it gives me something to keep working for (outfitting all of my characters with the “cool” armor and weapons).

The problem with Ascended being implemented as another higher tier is that it is mainly done to satisfy the hardcore players…these are the same players who constantly complain that content in the game is too easy…so now you give them a BiS class gear to work for…and they get that…which then makes the content even EASIER for them…so then ANET has to implement more content that is difficult….well now the people that do not have the BiS gear cannot do the content, which annoys the other players…and sooner or later the Hardcores will figure out the easiest way to do the new content and will complain it is too easy again…

You will NEVER satisfy the hardcores…look at any game, they are always wanting more.