Guild Wars 2

then isn’t it time for them to hinder the braindead DPS playstyle and focus on a more strategic battlefield, isn’t it time they gave up on their “but it’s fine the way it is” crap and actually change the battle system so players need to think before they act.
really, if there is one thing this game is good at it’s the auto-pilot battles, i know the original GW has plenty of auto skills but GW2 just adds a whole different level of lazy fighters.

sorudo.9054:

then isn’t it time for them to hinder the braindead DPS playstyle and focus on a more strategic battlefield, isn’t it time they gave up on their “but it’s fine the way it is” crap and actually change the battle system so players need to think before they act.
really, if there is one thing this game is good at it’s the auto-pilot battles, i know the original GW has plenty of auto skills but GW2 just adds a whole different level of lazy fighters.

Hate to break it to ya, but that “braindead DPS playstyle” is in all MMORPGS. All healers and tanks do is make the content easier for the DPSers so that they can do their job of actually killing the enemy. I.E. making them survive to kill the enemy.

if the majority of players likes trinity style, makes you wonder why they played here for 2 years…

Lazaar.9123:

sorudo.9054:

then isn’t it time for them to hinder the braindead DPS playstyle and focus on a more strategic battlefield, isn’t it time they gave up on their “but it’s fine the way it is” crap and actually change the battle system so players need to think before they act.
really, if there is one thing this game is good at it’s the auto-pilot battles, i know the original GW has plenty of auto skills but GW2 just adds a whole different level of lazy fighters.

Hate to break it to ya, but that “braindead DPS playstyle” is in all MMORPGS. All healers and tanks do is make the content easier for the DPSers so that they can do their job of actually killing the enemy.

hate to break it to yah but in the original GW, try to do DPS-only and you’ll die in seconds, i say GW2 became so braindead even veteran players forgot how to play.
oh and try it in ESO, you’ll die before you can even kill one single enemy.
all MMORPG’s you say?

sorudo.9054:

Lazaar.9123:

sorudo.9054:

then isn’t it time for them to hinder the braindead DPS playstyle and focus on a more strategic battlefield, isn’t it time they gave up on their “but it’s fine the way it is” crap and actually change the battle system so players need to think before they act.
really, if there is one thing this game is good at it’s the auto-pilot battles, i know the original GW has plenty of auto skills but GW2 just adds a whole different level of lazy fighters.

Hate to break it to ya, but that “braindead DPS playstyle” is in all MMORPGS. All healers and tanks do is make the content easier for the DPSers so that they can do their job of actually killing the enemy.

hate to break it to yah but in the original GW, try to do DPS-only and you’ll die in seconds, i say GW2 became so braindead even veteran players forgot how to play.
oh and try it in ESO, you’ll die before you can even kill one single enemy.
all MMORPG’s you say?

This is where you’re wrong. In Guild Wars 1, you actually could complete content without tanks, you could do just fine with only using damage and control. Also, the meta of dungeons isn’t even “DPS-only” like you seem to think. It’s support, control, and damage. Support is boons and conditions, control is stuff like reflects, blinds, and stuff like that.

I get the feeling that lots of people here are instantly spitting out “holy trinity holy trinity” whenever someone’s not satisfied with the status quo. The thing is though that this isn’t about holy trinity, it’s about almost every other build but damage, being it via boons, conditions or just pure dps being not viable enough, to a point were skilling that way would be detriment to your team and yourself in every major aspect of the game and it makes you wonder why certain attribute combinations on items are even there when Arena.Net seemingly doesn’t want dedicated “healers” or “tanks” – not even in the classical way, but in the GW2 sense.

And Lazaar, while it’s true that the meta right now is called support/control/damage there is no dedicated support/control/damage in the sense that someone skills fully into control or fully into damage. All three categories are hybrids of damage dealers + team utility. So your point’s really moot.

Hmm.7902:

I get the feeling that lots of people here are instantly spitting out “holy trinity holy trinity” whenever someone’s not satisfied with the status quo. The thing is though that this isn’t about holy trinity, it’s about almost every other build but damage, being it via boons, conditions or just pure dps being not viable enough, to a point were skilling that way would be detriment to your team and yourself in every major aspect of the game and it makes you wonder why certain attribute combinations on items are even there when Arena.Net seemingly doesn’t want dedicated “healers” or “tanks” – not even in the classical way, but in the GW2 sense.

And Lazaar, while it’s true that the meta right now is called support/control/damage there is no dedicated support/control/damage in the sense that someone skills fully into control or fully into damage. All three categories are hybrids of damage dealers + team utility. So your point’s really moot.

My point isn’t moot, because Guild Wars 2 is designed with the idea in mind that everyone can fill all three roles. Also, there is people in this thread that do want a hard trinity in guild wars 2, don’t pretend they don’t exist.

Lazaar.9123:

My point isn’t moot, because Guild Wars 2 is designed with the idea in mind that everyone can fill all three roles. Also, there is people in this thread that do want a hard trinity in guild wars 2, don’t pretend they don’t exist.

He, weird, and I thought there isn’t a (holy) trinity in GW2.

Also don’t put words in my mouth. I’m well aware there are people that want tank/heal/dps, yet as quite a neutral observer I more often see people attacking everyone in sight that isn’t 110% satisfied with what we got.

Hmm.7902:

Lazaar.9123:

My point isn’t moot, because Guild Wars 2 is designed with the idea in mind that everyone can fill all three roles. Also, there is people in this thread that do want a hard trinity in guild wars 2, don’t pretend they don’t exist.

He, weird, and I thought there isn’t a (holy) trinity in GW2.

Also don’t put words in my mouth. I’m well aware there are people that want tank/heal/dps, yet as quite a neutral observer I more often see people attacking everyone in sight that isn’t 110% satisfied with what we got.

I never said Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have a trinity, I said it doesn’t have a hard trinity. The difference there being that it is not forced, and content can still be completed regardless, even if it does take a bit longer. That is also the way Guild Wars 1 was, and that game was just fine. You do not need to force roles upon people to make difficult content.

One reason zerkers are hold in check pvp/wvw are that long and pressured encounters impairs them , they use sigils,damage modifiers in utility/defensive lines… The same should be in pve, it should counter classes not the other away around. If you want a better example if a player can do it so should a mob, corrupt condi,tank condi, bunker,stealth glass,cc burst etc.

Also stop with the only 1 boss encounters this is not a instanced dungeon where it’s more challenging. Make it two at least,make them move,dodge,swap places,heals when attacked if a player can do it so should they,make it summon pressure waves. Only damage kills but the current style is not something to be proud of.

Hmm.7902:

I get the feeling that lots of people here are instantly spitting out “holy trinity holy trinity” whenever someone’s not satisfied with the status quo. The thing is though that this isn’t about holy trinity, it’s about almost every other build but damage, being it via boons, conditions or just pure dps being not viable enough, to a point were skilling that way would be detriment to your team and yourself in every major aspect of the game and it makes you wonder why certain attribute combinations on items are even there when Arena.Net seemingly doesn’t want dedicated “healers” or “tanks” – not even in the classical way, but in the GW2 sense.

Non-damaging conditions are commonplace in ‘meta’ dungeon runs, as are defensive boons. And people do build specifically to inflict/provide them depending on the content. But gear has little to do with build, as has already been said many times.

As for everyone supposedly being a hybrid DPS + team utility, what the kitten do you think a tank even is? Or a healer, for that matter? DPS is not a role, damage is something that everyone can do. This holds true in nearly every MMO.

evilunderling.9265:

Hmm.7902:

I get the feeling that lots of people here are instantly spitting out “holy trinity holy trinity” whenever someone’s not satisfied with the status quo. The thing is though that this isn’t about holy trinity, it’s about almost every other build but damage, being it via boons, conditions or just pure dps being not viable enough, to a point were skilling that way would be detriment to your team and yourself in every major aspect of the game and it makes you wonder why certain attribute combinations on items are even there when Arena.Net seemingly doesn’t want dedicated “healers” or “tanks” – not even in the classical way, but in the GW2 sense.

Non-damaging conditions are commonplace in ‘meta’ dungeon runs, as are defensive boons. And people do build specifically to inflict/provide them depending on the content. But gear has little to do with build, as has already been said many times.

As for everyone supposedly being a hybrid DPS + team utility, what the kitten do you think a tank even is? Or a healer, for that matter? DPS is not a role, damage is something that everyone can do. This holds true in nearly every MMO.

It’s not related to challenging content, but imagine there was no crit chance/damage. The fact that three stats do the same that everyone already leaves others in dust. Just like condi duration should scale from condi damage. Stats and condi/boons mechanism are also to blame for this retaliation,vigor,might have been nerfed soon stability they are trying to improve not regress.

Scattered traits and stats attached to lines bad idea as well, they created diversity and locks in wrong places.

sorudo.9054:

then isn’t it time for them to hinder the braindead DPS playstyle and focus on a more strategic battlefield, isn’t it time they gave up on their “but it’s fine the way it is” crap and actually change the battle system so players need to think before they act.
really, if there is one thing this game is good at it’s the auto-pilot battles, i know the original GW has plenty of auto skills but GW2 just adds a whole different level of lazy fighters.

They’re pretty clearly taking steps along those lines (per the stability nerf), but there are plenty of answers that don’t rely on falling back on trinity play.

rotten.9753:

I would love to actually see the stats on gear removed, something like everything would be celestial or no stats would be gained from gear. Instead, anet should focus more on traits because gear is one dimensional while traits change (at least should) the playstyle and improve roles. Also respeccing would be virtually costless.

I wish, too. Just as the game became a lot more open and with a lot more replayability when refunding traits became free, being able to change all your stats quickly would be a huge improvement.

But let’s be honest, ArenaNet would never do that. We would have a thousand grinders here complaining about how they spent half their lives grinding materials to make 10 sets of ascended armors, each with different stats, and removing stats from gear would make all that meaningless.

Just consider it one more thing in which grinders hurt GW2.

Nausiation.1469:

With the introduction of a 6 second taunt on revenant, and class specializations, specifically druid ranger, I’m hoping anet is moving towards the holy trinity. This would open up so many more options for types of gameplay and builds.

If the move to trinity is one class that can taunt, then this is the worst move in all history. I mean, they stayed away from the trinity to avoid the: lf healer qeues, and now they introduce only ONE class that can tank?

Nausiation.1469:

I know anet started out not wanting a trinity but in reality, you need it in MMOs or everything will just be DPS-fest.

why is a dps fest worse than a trinity fest? when playing dps in wow, i didn’t have to heal myself, nor res other players, nor blast useful combo fields, nor protect other players. For a dps fest, this one is pretty varied.

Nausiation.1469:

To all that are going to say you don’t want tanks/healers, then you also can’t complain about everyone running zerkers and dps spamming through dungeons, because that’s what we got for not having a trinity.

the problem is that zerker is the only viable option, while this game offers more ways to do damage, only the developers made it really flawed. That won’t be solved by introducing the trinity. Stop trying to find solutions of other games to the unique problems of this game.

sorudo.9054:

hate to break it to yah but the original GW, try to do DPS-only and you’ll die in seconds, i say GW2 became so braindead even veteran players forgot how to play.
oh and try it in ESO, you’ll die before you can even kill one single enemy.
all MMORPG’s you say?

Hate to break it for yah but the original GW had no tank mechanic either. People found out how to use the aggro range to have a tank. They loaded a class with damage avoiding skills, sent him ahead to grab everything while all DPS would attack from the limit of aggro circle.

You should be happy to know that you can do this totally not braindead technique in GW2 too. Get someone with super high toughness to go in first then do your dps from the range limit of your skills. Unless the enemy has ranged skills that can touch you, you’ll be totally safe. Otherwise you may need to use some sort of braindead technic like using some utilities to block those attacks. Or even need to dodge, but that would be cheating.

Ok wow alot of heated debate here with the whole we are getting a trinity which I highly doubt they are doing that.

1. As stated several times above the game does have a sort of trinity in it already. that is Damage, Support, and Control and yes all professions have this already. And most people dont even realize they use them most of the time.

2. As stated above and even in the livestream they said the new taunt is not a traditional taunt but a new cc.

3. As stated above there are over 1000+ games out now with the standard trinity in it now.

4. Yes gear and traits do help you set yourself to do better at the 3 roles listed above while still doing the other 2 just not as effectively.

See most here came from games with a hard trinity I did and hated being forced to play my character to what the player base forced me into playing regardless of my own choice of being the warrior I liked to play or not its always been that way in all mmo’s even uo in the later days became set by the players on what was best and what was not for a character. Every mmo’s player base has set the standards for what is allowed in a group and what is not.

Then the company’s set the classes to be more forced as the game got older. Look at EQ or EQ2 or even Wow in the beginning those games had no hard set roles for classes but had more diverse roles for each class based on where you put your points in ether AA’s EQ or in the skill tree ala wow but they all had a more diverse set up later they changed them to fit more into what was more popular in the player base to make a priest to be only a healer mostly with little damage output to a warrior with a high dmg reduction and dealing less dmg to rogues being dps powerhouses and thats it why because the player based enforced this play style so bad that you could not be a dps warrior anymore you became nothing more then a glorified hp aggro box. and most mmo’s enforced this play style because they thought this was the only thing players wanted.

Now A-net has changed this in there game to where you dont have forced roles on your choice but where you can set your self to be better at damage, support, or control. But instead again the player base came along and said nope you have to do this or not group with us so I dont group with the ones who enforce rules on me instead I make my own groups for dungeons and set my self for my own set-up for sPvP and WvWvW without being forced into a set role. The reason why zerkers is used by so many is they can do all dungeon paths world bosses in less time then with a group with out so they get the most out of there time. Which is fine I get it but do not expect me to change my character to fit your needs. ok thats my rant.

Truth is most do not understand how things work because they do not take the time them selves to figure out what works for them instead they come here find the FoTM and just follow that and do not care that this game has allot of ways to set your character up with out following the FoTM play style.

So I say this take the time to figure out what works best for you and your character to the way you like to play and if you like the zerker set up do it but there are more ways to set yourself up to what you feel comfortable with to even being a full healer almost with all most all class types you just have to read up on their traits and skills and then set your gear to follow that sometimes you can even make a character thats good and almost everything with out celestial gear. its all in how you set your stuff up.

Well I am going to go play now so see you in game.

Aenesthesia.1697:

the problem is that zerker is the only viable option, while this game offers more ways to do damage, only the developers made it really flawed. That won’t be solved by introducing the trinity. Stop trying to find solutions of other games to the unique problems of this game.

Zerker isn’t the only viable option, it’s simply the fastest option.

Almost all options are viable for almost all content. That’s a central concept that they’ve pretty successfully delivered on.

Which, of course, is why they aren’t going to want to go to trinity.

OK, I think I’ve got to clarify my post from before

@rotten, phys, Ashen:

I don’t want to be rewarded for playing a supportive spec. I want the game to reward supportive actions like cc’s, buffs, debuff-removal, heals, etcetera, in an event.
Every profession in the game can use those abilities, no matter if they are in zerker-gear or, celestial, sinister,… those are actions, not philosophies or specs, your choice of gear doesn’t take them away from you.
In the end those supportive actions factor into the success of a large event. But the game doesn’t care about them when it slaps a bonus on the rng for your reward.
If the event itself consisted of killing a champ, your drop from the champion is only based on your dps, not the removed conditions, heals and what else you might have dished out while hammering on the boss. No matter if those supports kept the group alive that did more dps than you did.

Lets take the thrasher-champ at the Vinewrath for example. If a guardian drops down a reflective wall or a mesmer drops this projectile-absorbing dome on the thrasher, it’s a great contribution to the success of the event. Buuut: It’s no dps.
The game doesn’t even reward you some xp for it, while you get the killing-xp for popping the spore-blisters.

I’d like the game to actually reward those supportive actions.
The game should account for everything from cc’s to heals.
Right now, someone who stands at a save spot, activates the ranged auto-attack on a mob and then takes the hands off the mouse and keyboard get’s more rewards and does more in the event than someone who dodges through the enemies, rezzes players, removes conditions from his allies and heals them back up to join the fight.

I’d even say the game should be designed, so that people should actively need to use these support-abilities for a success.

Rezzing their fellow players for example.
Even at the Claw of Jormag with it’s DoT-debuff people would bow down and rez players. I find that amazing. While people didn’t get big rewards for it, the game had told them that supportive play means success. Each player was important.
Join the SW-event chain. People don’t rez that much there in the large fights. Instead you get “friendly” reminders like “OMG! DEAD NOOBS WP!!!”
Because everything the game rewards you for, in the SW, is dps and staying on your feet.

Why not emphasize on those supportive deeds again?
Here’s an example of what I mean.
A new kind of large, stationary mordrem-boss. In it’s initial form it’s too strong to be beaten.
People will die. The boss shoots out vines and drags the dead players into a bed of vines, where he feasts on them and gets even stronger. He can pull only a specific amount of players into the bed at a time, so it doesn’t get too bad for everyone.
However, every living player inside the vine-bed will receive a small DoT, but will weaken the boss’ attacks by walking over the leaching vines.
Even more so: People need to get to the corpses the boss is leeching on, free them from the vines and then rez them. The rez will daze the boss and weaken him tremendously for a short time in which he can be damaged.

People would actually be happy for those tanky players to get into the vine-bed, instead of kitten ing them for having low dps.

tekfan.3179:

OK, I think I’ve got to clarify my post from before

@rotten, phys, Ashen:

I don’t want to be rewarded for playing a supportive spec. I want the game to reward supportive actions like cc’s, buffs, debuff-removal, heals, etcetera, in an event.

Some of those actions are among the best rewarded in the game, at least in instanced content (dungeons specifically). They are required for the best times (which means best rewards for time spent).

Moving towards trinity would be a drastic departure from the established norm, but it could be what ANET will try next to revitalize the game and reignite the interest/attract new players. They need SOMETHING to boost the revenue numbers (which as of last publication were a bit less than stellar).

At the same time there’s been quite a bit of clamoring on the forums to kill the zerker meta, which could very well result, when HoT drops, in some massive debuff to zerker gear (-HP, -Stability, maybe -Incoming healing??) which in turn would force a re-gear and a departure of a substantial portion of the player base not willing to put up with the new meta.

Which oddly enough can be overall net healthy, if the game sheds the veteran players (who would be the most affected). GW2 will be losing an entrenched segment that’s “been there, done that”, got good at making gold, got their ascendeds and legendaries, and now chew through the same content over and over again, getting jaded and spreading negativity (happens in every MMO, veterans turn bitter sooner or later). These players also have mounds of gold and can buy gems with it, so they aren’t paying real dollars to ANET, and are just taking up server resources.

In their place there would be an influx of noobs who will, besides buying the game and the expansion, will also want to buy gems because OOOH SHINY and who won’t have mounds of gold to convert into gems and buy cash content with virtual money. At the end, the game makes money AND sheds an unproductive playerbase segment, so a win-win for ANET and a sound business strategy, heartless as it may seem.

Of course this is just me spitballin’ here, it might not be what is in the cards at all, but I think it’s one of the possible things that may come along with HoT.

tekfan.3179:

Lets take the thrasher-champ at the Vinewrath for example. If a guardian drops down a reflective wall or a mesmer drops this projectile-absorbing dome on the thrasher, it’s a great contribution to the success of the event. Buuut: It’s no dps.
The game doesn’t even reward you some xp for it, while you get the killing-xp for popping the spore-blisters.

I’d like the game to actually reward those supportive actions.
The game should account for everything from cc’s to heals.

If it is just about DPS why does the mangler fail so many time?
DPS is easy no?

evilunderling.9265:

That’s specifically because the main things you’re trying to kill take damage as structures, which cannot be critically hit or conditioned, making precision, condi damage, and ferocity meaningless. It’s not really a change from the ‘zerk meta’ that certain people like to complain about.

Um, conditions work against those bosses. It’s just critical hits that don’t.

Haishao.6851:

tekfan.3179:

Lets take the thrasher-champ at the Vinewrath for example. If a guardian drops down a reflective wall or a mesmer drops this projectile-absorbing dome on the thrasher, it’s a great contribution to the success of the event. Buuut: It’s no dps.
The game doesn’t even reward you some xp for it, while you get the killing-xp for popping the spore-blisters.

I’d like the game to actually reward those supportive actions.
The game should account for everything from cc’s to heals.

If it is just about DPS why does the mangler fail so many time?
DPS is easy no?

It fails a lot for you? I barely encountered any fails on that boss. The beekeeper is the one I encountered the most fails on, since people forget that the tiny trolls can push them away from the safezones.
But to answer your question: DPS means damage per second. Dead=0 dps.
As I mentioned in my post, the silverwastes reward you for two things: DPS and standing on your feet.

DPS is easy. Yes.
The SW are finally more challenging.
Among the most vocal zerker-fanatics I encountered, were the most terrible players I’ve ever seen. They couldn’t dodge for their digital life. Anything beyond “smash it” was above their play-grade. Everybody drops from time to time or has a bad episode in standing upright, but those guys really told me a whole new level of failing.
I love to integrate support into my builds(doesn’t matter if I run around in my zerker or celestial gear), since it not only means that I need to take care of enemies(dps, evasion), but also of other players, if they need buffs, heals or if I have to put a cc-field between them and a charging enemy so they can get up again.

Algreg.3629:

if the majority of players likes trinity style, makes you wonder why they played here for 2 years…

B2P
so we can play all we want. also elements like PvP and WvW

Knighthonor.4061:

Algreg.3629:

if the majority of players likes trinity style, makes you wonder why they played here for 2 years…

B2P
so we can play all we want. also elements like PvP and WvW

Game was advertised with no holy trinity, so that’s your own fault if you were wanting it. (That was also a what-if question by the way.)

A trinity solves nothing, because the entire concept of a trinity is but a pre-defined optimization strategy given as a framework to make it easier for new players to adapt to the game and to make it easier for the developers to balance the game around.

There is in all seriousness zero reason to require or set up around a pre-defined optimization strategy as a game developer unless it proves too challenging or impossible to do otherwise. GW2 has done so with a fair amount of success, and its major selling point was to have no trinity.

This thread is another PvE/Berserker “meta” thread in its essence, so I’ll dump this response I wrote on a previous thread:

DeceiverX.8361:

The mythical “berserker meta” ONLY exists in dungeon PvE. ONLY. Conditions are so wildly OP in the other formats natively that the only reason they’re not as widely used is because of the fact that so many builds are used on the basis that they need to dedicate a huge quantity of resources to conditions just to be able to deal with them. With conditions being a binary form of fighting, either you have solid cleansing and you hard-counter conditions, or you don’t, and often times you just straight up lose. If conditions weren’t so potent and so spammable, we’d actually see a RWEN meta in WvW – yes, rangers – instead of GWEN, seeing as guards would have almost no use aside from some stability and general group support to cover a few eles.

Why not sPvP? Again, huge cleansing emphasis due to the potency of controlling conditions, and that a lot of condition builds just don’t really work at all for the format for various other reasons.

Open-world PvE? I mean it really doesn’t make much of a difference…

Trinities solve nothing but create new metas and move the toxicity to alternative demands, and implementing new things to buff the rest would have adverse effects on the rest of the game where berserker gear already is considered to be sub-optimal and very far away from the meta. Again, it just moves the toxicity around.

Dungeons designed around utilizing strengths and weaknesses of characters and players are what make things equally viable. Consider the Asura fractal level – some builds can facetank right across the poison gas and make the whole thing go by WAY faster. More of these types of designs focusing on tanks and supportive builds need to be intentionally implemented such that tanks and support builds can have a definitive purpose in dungeons.

Forcing a trinity, or any attempts to try and move the game to do so are not only futile in terms of their relative goals but will ultimately cause a larger outgoing player migration than incoming one; most GW2 players prefer the system as it is or do not care because they’re still playing the game. If they didn’t, they’d be playing something else. If a majority of players felt this way, then the game wouldn’t be so incredibly successful, would it?

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

Xdmatt.3958:

Moving towards trinity would be a drastic departure from the established norm, but it could be what ANET will try next to revitalize the game and reignite the interest/attract new players. They need SOMETHING to boost the revenue numbers (which as of last publication were a bit less than stellar).

At the same time there’s been quite a bit of clamoring on the forums to kill the zerker meta, which could very well result, when HoT drops, in some massive debuff to zerker gear (-HP, -Stability, maybe -Incoming healing??) which in turn would force a re-gear and a departure of a substantial portion of the player base not willing to put up with the new meta.

Which oddly enough can be overall net healthy, if the game sheds the veteran players (who would be the most affected). GW2 will be losing an entrenched segment that’s “been there, done that”, got good at making gold, got their ascendeds and legendaries, and now chew through the same content over and over again, getting jaded and spreading negativity (happens in every MMO, veterans turn bitter sooner or later). These players also have mounds of gold and can buy gems with it, so they aren’t paying real dollars to ANET, and are just taking up server resources.

In their place there would be an influx of noobs who will, besides buying the game and the expansion, will also want to buy gems because OOOH SHINY and who won’t have mounds of gold to convert into gems and buy cash content with virtual money. At the end, the game makes money AND sheds an unproductive playerbase segment, so a win-win for ANET and a sound business strategy, heartless as it may seem.

Of course this is just me spitballin’ here, it might not be what is in the cards at all, but I think it’s one of the possible things that may come along with HoT.

this is an incorrect assumption.
you assumed entrenched players arent spending, this is incorrect,
you assume anet doesnt profit off selling gold, they do.
You assume you can get an influx of newbs by changing things, that is incorrect

let me put it simply, its always a bad idea to throw away existing customers for new possible customers. Its always a better idea to expand your audience rather than change it

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

Amen to that.

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

And here we have someone who hasn’t run with a really good and organized group. The best groups are not only “Straight DPS”.

Necromancers aren’t popular in the dungeon meta running, have you ever wondered why? I’ll give you a hint: their damage is excellent

If they remove/replace crit chance/damage all specs would be more on the same lane. 3 stats for the same thing is impairing others, it’s a lazy design as well that’s the cause of dps focus you give them stats dedicated to it and left others with 1, conditions duration should come from condi damage. More challenging bosses,nerf of dps/might/exploit would never affect it,too much difference within specs .

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

The only people who use straight DPS are here asking for diversity and trinity.

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

All of the options you list are viable.

Ashen.2907:

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

All of the options you list are viable.

Yet, what do you see in the lfg-tools, especially for dungeons?
“Zerker only!” “Only Zerker!!!” “ZERK!!!”

tekfan.3179:

Ashen.2907:

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

All of the options you list are viable.

Yet, what do you see in the lfg-tools, especially for dungeons?
“Zerker only!” “Only Zerker!!!” “ZERK!!!”

I also see parties listing “All welcome”, you can also form your own party.

tekfan.3179:

Ashen.2907:

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

All of the options you list are viable.

Yet, what do you see in the lfg-tools, especially for dungeons?
“Zerker only!” “Only Zerker!!!” “ZERK!!!”

I have done every dungeon (except Arah exorable) using either the old off-site tool or the official LFG, and yet Ive never once played in a zerker only group.

Even so there is a huge difference between not being viable and not being as popular as zerker on the LFG tool.

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about “evil ‘elitists’ don´t let me play with them”. Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Algreg.3629:

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about “evil ‘elitists’ don´t let me play with them”. Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Zerker has 3 stats that do the same thing it’s flaw design. Crit chance/damage are impairing others specs replace or remove will bring more synergy within stats.

Sagat.3285:

Algreg.3629:

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about “evil ‘elitists’ don´t let me play with them”. Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Zerker has 3 stats that do the same thing it’s flaw design. Crit chance/damage are impairing others specs replace or remove will bring more synergy within stats.

So you mean you also hate Nomad gear?

Sagat.3285:

Algreg.3629:

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about “evil ‘elitists’ don´t let me play with them”. Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Zerker has 3 stats that do the same thing it’s flaw design. Crit chance/damage are impairing others specs replace or remove will bring more synergy within stats.

if we could also remove all defensive stats it would bring more synergy within the community, because people would understand what active defense means.

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Algreg.3629:

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about “evil ‘elitists’ don´t let me play with them”. Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Zerker has 3 stats that do the same thing it’s flaw design. Crit chance/damage are impairing others specs replace or remove will bring more synergy within stats.

So you mean you also hate Nomad gear?

Not the slightest resemblance, giver would be closer due to condi duration/damage but it is not really needed. Crit chance is the same as passive procs, crit damage just glorifies it. Hate is strong word you know the game worship dps when they give you 3 stats for it and only 1 for others just to create major difference.

Ashen.2907:

tekfan.3179:

Ashen.2907:

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

All of the options you list are viable.

Yet, what do you see in the lfg-tools, especially for dungeons?
“Zerker only!” “Only Zerker!!!” “ZERK!!!”

I have done every dungeon (except Arah exorable) using either the old off-site tool or the official LFG, and yet Ive never once played in a zerker only group.

Even so there is a huge difference between not being viable and not being as popular as zerker on the LFG tool.

Same here, I’ve done it with my friends. We got a mini-guild, mostly just four people around, the fifth has lost the interest in GW2. So we take a random with us via the lfg-tool.

I stopped counting the times a random sees a signet in my build, blabbers something about it and leaves or even tries to kick me. Even if I just got the air-signet for the movement-speed, I get such comments.
Or someone comes in and demands a gear-check for zerker-only, despite our group not being advertised as such.

Meanwhile Arenanet slapped a countdown on each world boss and the new events, so dps is further emphasized.

You can be viable in the game, doing nothing but supportive deeds. Heck, if I join an event with my supportive build, you can easily observe how players drop less.
But neither the reward-system of the game nor the meta-crazed kind of players will notice that. All that’s registered is the dps.
I do low dps on a champion, because I chose to keep a glassy thief on his feet with the water-attunement? Green bag.
Even better: Besaid thief turns around, thanks me for the rez and then says I do kitten low dps.

Sagat.3285:

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Algreg.3629:

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about “evil ‘elitists’ don´t let me play with them”. Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Zerker has 3 stats that do the same thing it’s flaw design. Crit chance/damage are impairing others specs replace or remove will bring more synergy within stats.

So you mean you also hate Nomad gear?

Not the slightest resemblance, giver would be closer due to condi duration/damage but it is not really needed. Crit chance is the same as passive procs, crit damage just glorifies it. Hate is strong word you know the game worship dps when they give you 3 stats for it and only 1 for others just to create major difference.

Come on, you’re asking for it to be replaced or removed, what else can describe your affinity for Berserker stat combo lol. While we’re at it we can also remove or replace sinister, rampager & assassins nomenclature because they promote dps worship to some extent too.

Yet on the other side of the coin you can build to the extreme in survivability with nomads right? So does the game worship survivability too given your logic? (FYI giver nomenclature doesn’t give condi damage for armor or weapon)

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Algreg.3629:

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about "evil ’elitists’ don´t let me play with them". Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Zerker has 3 stats that do the same thing it’s flaw design. Crit chance/damage are impairing others specs replace or remove will bring more synergy within stats.

So you mean you also hate Nomad gear?

Not the slightest resemblance, giver would be closer due to condi duration/damage but it is not really needed. Crit chance is the same as passive procs, crit damage just glorifies it. Hate is strong word you know the game worship dps when they give you 3 stats for it and only 1 for others just to create major difference.

Come on, you’re asking for it to be replaced or removed, what else can describe your affinity for Berserker stat combo lol. While we’re at it we can also remove or replace sinister, rampager & assassins nomenclature because they promote dps worship to some extent too.

Yet on the other side of the coin you can build to the extreme in survivability with nomads right? So does the game worship survivability too given your logic? (FYI giver nomenclature doesn’t give condi damage for armor or weapon)

Toughness for power,vitality for conditions, yes emphasize condition and boons to gain damage promoting 2 other stats. Change vulnerability to reduce a specific number of armor instead of percentage,change fury to next skill does X times more damage, poison reduces healing power not percentage,you shouldn’t heal without healing power. This promotes stats and customization but not what we have now. Adapt mobs and stats to fit voila a game with synergy,crit chance is the same as passive procs.

Give me your way of synergy.

tekfan.3179:

Ashen.2907:

tekfan.3179:

Ashen.2907:

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

All of the options you list are viable.

Yet, what do you see in the lfg-tools, especially for dungeons?
“Zerker only!” “Only Zerker!!!” “ZERK!!!”

I have done every dungeon (except Arah exorable) using either the old off-site tool or the official LFG, and yet Ive never once played in a zerker only group.

Even so there is a huge difference between not being viable and not being as popular as zerker on the LFG tool.

Same here, I’ve done it with my friends. We got a mini-guild, mostly just four people around, the fifth has lost the interest in GW2. So we take a random with us via the lfg-tool.

I stopped counting the times a random sees a signet in my build, blabbers something about it and leaves or even tries to kick me. Even if I just got the air-signet for the movement-speed, I get such comments.
Or someone comes in and demands a gear-check for zerker-only, despite our group not being advertised as such.

Meanwhile Arenanet slapped a countdown on each world boss and the new events, so dps is further emphasized.

You can be viable in the game, doing nothing but supportive deeds. Heck, if I join an event with my supportive build, you can easily observe how players drop less.
But neither the reward-system of the game nor the meta-crazed kind of players will notice that. All that’s registered is the dps.
I do low dps on a champion, because I chose to keep a glassy thief on his feet with the water-attunement? Green bag.
Even better: Besaid thief turns around, thanks me for the rez and then says I do kitten low dps.

Although I have done guild dungeon runs a few times the vast majority of my time spent in dungeons has been full PUGs. I am sure that in at least some of those it I was the PUG extra in a guild group, but even so mostly PUGs.

I must admit that I would like to see heals and rezzes tracked for event participation. But this whole train of posts started with comments about what is, “viable,” not what is the most efficient approach to getting rewards.

Put together a group of tanky, supportive, aoe healing, middling dps characters and chew your way through a dungeon and you will find that you all get full credit for each boss.

Sagat.3285:

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Algreg.3629:

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about “evil ‘elitists’ don´t let me play with them”. Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Zerker has 3 stats that do the same thing it’s flaw design. Crit chance/damage are impairing others specs replace or remove will bring more synergy within stats.

So you mean you also hate Nomad gear?

Not the slightest resemblance, giver would be closer due to condi duration/damage but it is not really needed. Crit chance is the same as passive procs, crit damage just glorifies it. Hate is strong word you know the game worship dps when they give you 3 stats for it and only 1 for others just to create major difference.

Come on, you’re asking for it to be replaced or removed, what else can describe your affinity for Berserker stat combo lol. While we’re at it we can also remove or replace sinister, rampager & assassins nomenclature because they promote dps worship to some extent too.

Yet on the other side of the coin you can build to the extreme in survivability with nomads right? So does the game worship survivability too given your logic? (FYI giver nomenclature doesn’t give condi damage for armor or weapon)

Toughness for power,vitality for conditions, yes emphasize condition and boons to gain damage promoting 2 other stats. Change vulnerability to reduce a specific number of armor instead of percentage,change fury to next skill does X times more damage, poison reduces healing power not percentage,you shouldn’t heal without healing power. This promotes stats and customization but not what we have now. Adapt mobs and stats to fit voila a game with synergy,crit chance is the same as passive procs.

Give me your way of synergy.

Sorry english isn’t my first language.

Are you saying crit chance and crit damage should be removed from the game altogether and heals shouldn’t heal you if you don’t invest in healing stat or whatever?

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Izaya.2906:

Sagat.3285:

Algreg.3629:

what has zerker gear to do with it? If GW2 introduces the aged trinity, yes, then you will possibly stop people demanding zerker gear. But here is the kicker: instead of one optimal gear, people will quickly identify the best gear for every role and will demand to use that. And then we will hear the same whining in here about “evil ‘elitists’ don´t let me play with them”. Have you guys actually ever played a trinity mmorpg?

Zerker has 3 stats that do the same thing it’s flaw design. Crit chance/damage are impairing others specs replace or remove will bring more synergy within stats.

So you mean you also hate Nomad gear?

Not the slightest resemblance, giver would be closer due to condi duration/damage but it is not really needed. Crit chance is the same as passive procs, crit damage just glorifies it. Hate is strong word you know the game worship dps when they give you 3 stats for it and only 1 for others just to create major difference.

Come on, you’re asking for it to be replaced or removed, what else can describe your affinity for Berserker stat combo lol. While we’re at it we can also remove or replace sinister, rampager & assassins nomenclature because they promote dps worship to some extent too.

Yet on the other side of the coin you can build to the extreme in survivability with nomads right? So does the game worship survivability too given your logic? (FYI giver nomenclature doesn’t give condi damage for armor or weapon)

Toughness for power,vitality for conditions, yes emphasize condition and boons to gain damage promoting 2 other stats. Change vulnerability to reduce a specific number of armor instead of percentage,change fury to next skill does X times more damage, poison reduces healing power not percentage,you shouldn’t heal without healing power. This promotes stats and customization but not what we have now. Adapt mobs and stats to fit voila a game with synergy,crit chance is the same as passive procs.

Give me your way of synergy.

Sorry english isn’t my first language.

Are you saying crit chance and crit damage should be removed from the game altogether and heals shouldn’t heal you if you don’t invest in healing stat or whatever?

Yes hardcore synergy,customization and promotion of stats.

tekfan.3179:

Ashen.2907:

Milkduds.7109:

Shocked to see people stand up for the stale meta of this game. Dungeons in this game could be SO much more.

Forget the trinity. Just make more playstyles viable. Wanna hybrid support/DPS? Go for it. Wanna hybrid tank/heal? Go for it. Wanna hybrid range/melee DPS? Go for it.

Forget trinity. Forget that garbage that WoW put into your mind. Go back to the classic RPG’s, where imagination was king, and the only limit was our own ideas.

We don’t need the trinity, but we also need a game that allows something besides “STRAIGHT DPS D00D” to be viable. Otherwise, the PvE will continue to suffer and be extremely bland.

All of the options you list are viable.

Yet, what do you see in the lfg-tools, especially for dungeons?
“Zerker only!” “Only Zerker!!!” “ZERK!!!”

because zerker really has little to do with roles, this is the mistake people keep making. In some other games, you attribute determines your role, not in this game.

zerker is basically like setting your game to hardcore speed mode.

You take more dmg, you deal more dmg.
wether you are a healer or tanky or support has more to do with your build than your stats.

now if you want to talk about gear sets not improving the abilities of any role other than dps, thats a viable conversation, but that has nothing to do with only having one role/playstyle.