Guild Wars 2

The rating on Amazon appears to be dropping because of the added grind in game. I thought people were upset just on a couple forums, but the disappointment is popping up just about everywhere I go. There was scattered complaints in Eve, WoW, every GW2 forum and now on retail purchase sites.

It doesn’t sound like a horrible change. Is everyone upset just because it goes against the manifesto/interviews with ArenaNet saying they would not ever do this? Do you think they will change it back because of the outcry? I have a sneaky suspicion that NCsoft/Nexon is behind this, but I’m sure I will never know.

Just making conversation.

Please don’t go off topic or start any problems that would cause this thread to be closed.

maybe it is time to spread the good news beyond the forum.

Yes you are correct… loads of people over the past few weeks giving one star.

Try not to be too happy. This is VERY damaging to the game and Amazon is not a good place to get bad reviews.

Anet, you need to understand the feedback and fix it (quickly)

You reap what you sow.

This isn’t against their Manifesto.

They’re just adding a more obtainable step between Exotic and Legendary items. Most people think this means they’re going to keep adding items higher than Legendary rarity, stat-wise.

Their loss, honestly. I think it’s great that Anet can take a step back and say, “Ahh, yeah, there should be something in between Exotic and Legendary that people can get, yet still feel accomplished about.”

EDIT: To be more clear, they’re going to add Legendary armor eventually, and people are going to complain like this. They have said that Legendary is the be-all, end-all in terms of difficulty and spectacle, so I’d take this to mean that they’re just bringing armor up to par with Legendary-tier weapons.

Not surprised I will give it a 1 star myself.

I really don’t think it’s as bad as it appears to be. People always like to kitten on forums about everything. I haven’t seen if it’s a problem in game(logged in for an hour over the last few weeks), but if people are just as upset in game, then I would definitely suggest they make some changes.

I had a post about this yesterday. They closed it.

My post explained what I saw on Amazon.com. I then shared that in the US, this is the beginning of the big retail season (Black Friday is one of the biggest retail sales days in the year). I shared that potential customers will see the negative posts due to the radical design change and probably not buy the game.

I do not like posting 1s or 0s just to make a rating go down. However, I am glad people are putting the reason. It will forewarn those that may have read the manifesto type marketing materials. At least now, they will know that GW2 has switched to supporting “gear stat” progression instead of horizontal, “just for fun and looks” progression.

Zeke Minus.5720:

This isn’t against their Manifesto.

They’re just adding a more obtainable step between Exotic and Legendary items. Most people think this means they’re going to keep adding items higher than Legendary rarity, stat-wise.

Their loss, honestly. I think it’s great that Anet can take a step back and say, “Ahh, yeah, there should be something in between Exotic and Legendary that people can get, yet still feel accomplished about.”

Collin said in an interview that they do not believe in grinding for gear with better stats, if people want to grind they can grind for cosmetics only. That is why I put manifesto/interviews. From what I have read, there is no fine line when calling it a grind.

Oh also … Think before you go and give the game one star just because you are frustrated. Lets not bring the game down, lets instead keep feeding back to Anet what we want from the game

It was such a foolish thing to do.

This is not 2004: there are many, many MMOs on the market. In this environment, every game in the genre has to be a niche game if it wants longevity.

Defining your customer base with a very specific design philosophy is smart. Betraying that philosophy two months after release isn’t just cynical (although it’s that too), it’s dumb.

The players who like the same old thing have many other games to choose from. They can and will move on whether you cater to them or not. The players who prefer what sets your game apart from the rest (or used to), would have been a solid, long-term customer base. Now, maybe not.

well, were I to review it as a 1, and arena net were to amend their ways, I’d likely go back and edit to a cautious 3 or 4,

They can keep the ascended all they want. Just adjust the stats to: exotic = ascended = legendary and see the reaction.

Good. ArenaNet needs a wake-up call.

Fernling.1729:

Zeke Minus.5720:

This isn’t against their Manifesto.

They’re just adding a more obtainable step between Exotic and Legendary items. Most people think this means they’re going to keep adding items higher than Legendary rarity, stat-wise.

Their loss, honestly. I think it’s great that Anet can take a step back and say, “Ahh, yeah, there should be something in between Exotic and Legendary that people can get, yet still feel accomplished about.”

Collin said in an interview that they do not believe in grinding for gear with better stats, if people want to grind they can grind for cosmetics only. That is why I put manifesto/interviews. From what I have read, there is no fine line when calling it a grind.

So, then why did people play this game when there’s several different item tiers, each with their own level of difficulty to obtain?

Also, grinding… is very subjective. If you want to have a Legendary now and have only been playing for a month, you will grind. That’s your fault, honestly, as Legendary items were meant to be long-term investments

Also, think about this down the road: Legendary is the final step, and on a year or two, many people will have them. I’m positive they will get easier to obtain as they add more (equally stat-distributed) Legendary armor/weapons. Right now it seems somewhat grindy, but it’s because many people have short-sighted views.

Marrgon.6852:

Oh also … Think before you go and give the game one star just because you are frustrated. Lets not bring the game down, lets instead keep feeding back to Anet what we want from the game

I think rating the game a 1 is more than fine, as long as they explain why they feel the need to rate so low. If people feel like they were lied to and would not have purchased the game because of this, then I completely agree with them rating a 1 to make a point. It sucks when changes happen that are out of your control. Something as drastic as ruining their games rating on an very reputable site might bring it to Arenanets attention that they are ruining their game.

ocfallwind.4821:

They can keep the ascended all they want. Just adjust the stats to: exotic = ascended = legendary and see the reaction.

I would like to see this, too. This would be more in line with their ideals.

Let’s all sit back and take a look at how childish threatening to “review bomb if you don’t get your way” is……………

There.

Now that we have all realized the majority of us here are adults, let’s take a deep breathe, stop overreacting, and chill out. There are plenty of other way to express your feelings in the forms of constructive criticism, and my guess is , the people who matter will take that more seriously than, per say, “RAWR! YOU LIED TO US!!! YOU OWE US!!! GIVE US WHAT WE WANT OR ELSE RAGEE!!!!!1”

It’s not like they came out and said, so guys in development we wanted something like ascended armor from GW1 but we didn’t have the mechanic just right, so rather than launching it unfinished we put it in a large content update and scaled down the legendaries temporarily.

No – They announced it like WoW and every other grind based MMO. That’s why they are catching heat, because there is nothing preventing 3 months from now,

Fractals TWO, the Higher Ascended.

I played GW1 for about a year. I was late to the party started about 2 years ago. (Finished all the campaigns but EotN). I got my lvl 20 gear and scoured the forums because I couldn’t believe that was truly it in gear progression. Yea there were spiffy armors that cost 15x the mats and required crazy vabbi grinds or tons of ectos but they had the same stats as mine.

I loved Z-keys and Vanquishing. (Couldn’t find a guild worth a crap but that might have been my fault).

I say we do a counter push. Everyone rush to Amazon and put in 5 star ratings! GO GO GO!

Zeke Minus.5720:

This isn’t against their Manifesto.

They’re just adding a more obtainable step between Exotic and Legendary items. Most people think this means they’re going to keep adding items higher than Legendary rarity, stat-wise.

You missed the part where Legendaries were cool skins with stats similar to Exotics.

Ascended = superior stats to exotic = a new tier of gear (even excluding the infusion slot)

This is very detrimental to the game. Everyone and their minis are now LFG FOTM, either because they like it, or because they feel that they have to. I am sure some people genuinely enjoy FOTM. I am not one of them, this is not the game I bought.

Many thanks to Amazon for allowing people to write reviews. If you try to give reviews here your thread gets locked the next day by a draconian moderator that is supposed to be a CC. I’m not surprised that GW2 is dropping in popularity.

The whole staff making these bad decisions need to be fired. In fact, there are more CC than people working on bug fixes and balancing for all of GW2 (there’s only 2.) Fire the CCs, too. Put all those open positions into fixing the current bugs and then onto balancing the game and ready it for e-sports.

More people are becoming disappointed in GW2 and it’s showing.

Zeke Minus.5720:

Fernling.1729:

Zeke Minus.5720:

This isn’t against their Manifesto.

They’re just adding a more obtainable step between Exotic and Legendary items. Most people think this means they’re going to keep adding items higher than Legendary rarity, stat-wise.

Their loss, honestly. I think it’s great that Anet can take a step back and say, “Ahh, yeah, there should be something in between Exotic and Legendary that people can get, yet still feel accomplished about.”

Collin said in an interview that they do not believe in grinding for gear with better stats, if people want to grind they can grind for cosmetics only. That is why I put manifesto/interviews. From what I have read, there is no fine line when calling it a grind.

So, then why did people play this game when there’s several different item tiers, each with their own level of difficulty to obtain?

Also, grinding… is very subjective. If you want to have a Legendary now and have only been playing for a month, you will grind. That’s your fault, honestly, as Legendary items were meant to be long-term investment.

Also, think about this down the road: Legendary is the final step, and on a year or two, many people will have them. I’m positive they will get easier to obtain as they add more (equally stat-distributed) Legendary armor/weapons. Right now it seems somewhat grindy, but it’s because many people have short-sighted views.

The no grind philosophy was all assumed at max level. I’m sure it was said at max level somewhere. If everyone could go to their nearest vendor and purchase the new gear for a few gold, I wouldn’t say it goes against anything ArenaNet has said. The problem seems to be that people have to grind their kitten off just to get top tier gear. I personally don’t see how someone could form an argument that trying to acquire the ascended gear is not full of grind. Like you said though everyone’s definition of grind is subjective.

Also legendary gear was grind for cosmetic before the new ascended gear was released. Exotic=legendary statwise pre-patch. I personal

Actually, I would much rather see people drop 1-start reviews on Amazon than this talk I’ve heard about people asking for refunds. Expressing discontent with a purchase is legitimate freedom of speech, asking for a refund on a game you’ve already put 100+ hours into just seems dishonest.

Marrgon.6852:

Oh also … Think before you go and give the game one star just because you are frustrated. Lets not bring the game down, lets instead keep feeding back to Anet what we want from the game

I personally will not do this and it pains me to see this game go down this path. However, this is what happens when you frustrate or anger your core customer base.

I really loved the game until this patch. I know that most of the content has not changed but the whole feeling has changed. I had bad experiences in vertical progression focused MMOs. That type of content gating and gear treadmill approach seems to breed elitism and attract some nasty people. Or at least encourage nasty behavior.

I was reluctant to play this game but after experiencing the beta decided to take a chance. To my surprise, the community for the most part has been great in-game. I really was enjoying the content and just playing the way I wanted. Thought I had finally found the MMO for me.

In just two short days, post-patch, I started seeing the nasty behavior that I left other MMOs for. The spirit of cooperation seems to have diminished with the introduction of the Fractal dungeon or Ascendant gear.

Finally, Arenanet’s Lost Shores press release made it clear to me that I was no longer their target audience. They changed their approach for the “most dedicated players.” Guess my hundreds of hours of game play, money spent in the cash shop, and constant vocal support for their manifesto ideals was not dedicated enough.

So while I will not be putting low ratings on retail sites, I will
a) stop spending money in the cash shop (they made it clear they do not want or need me so why support them),
b) stop playing (it is no longer fun and if the in-game toxicity around this grows I will just get more frustrated),
c) not buy this game for my Nephew’s Christmas present – had planned to surprise him so we could play together,
d) not recommend this game to anyone looking for a WOW alternative,
e) share my negative opinion about their “design philosophy” change whenever asked.

Merthax.5172:

Actually, I would much rather see people drop 1-start reviews on Amazon than this talk I’ve heard about people asking for refunds. Expressing discontent with a purchase is legitimate freedom of speech, asking for a refund on a game you’ve already put 100+ hours into just seems dishonest.

They were sold a product where they were guaranteed that it wouldn’t be a gear grind. After 100+ hours in, GW2 devs are changing the direction the game is heading in. The game is now becoming a gear grind for the best gear.

False advertisement warrants calls for refunds.

Zeke Minus.5720:

Their loss, honestly. I think it’s great that Anet can take a step back and say, “Ahh, yeah, there should be something in between Exotic and Legendary that people can get, yet still feel accomplished about.”

But the tier between exotic and legendary should not have 10% (or more) better stats. Given the cost and difficulty of acquiring it, ArenaNet’s decision is madness. Look at what’s required to get an ascended backpiece. Now imagine doing that for 6 armor pieces, the rest of your jewelry, and all of your weapons. I’m not looking forward to the rollout of ascended gear.

They needed to introduce legendary armor, and maybe make it somewhat easier to get compared to legendary weapons (that would bridge the gap between exotics and legendary weapons), introduce some new jewelry and other items with different combinations of stats — but NOT increase the stats on the gear.

I would be excited about the introduction of legendary armor, because it would have been something I could slowly work towards without feeling the time pressure. But now I’m dreading the introduction of ascended armor, because I know I’m less effective until I get it. It’s a terrible addition to this game.

Merthax.5172:

Actually, I would much rather see people drop 1-start reviews on Amazon than this talk I’ve heard about people asking for refunds. Expressing discontent with a purchase is legitimate freedom of speech, asking for a refund on a game you’ve already put 100+ hours into just seems dishonest.

When is the cutoff of time played before you can be considered honest? Less than 100? Why is that? I just don’t see how someone could put a time stamp on something like this. I used to put 10-15 hours into a $40 game and was very happy with this. I logged over 1500 hours into WoW and GW1. Could I expect the same amount of hours logged in gw2? What if I played 150 hours before I realized that the games direction completely changed from what was originally offered to me and then decided to request a refund? 10% of a product used at the time of refund doesn’t sound too bad to me.
Meh, just blabbing :P

Which is the problem with ‘everyone’ being a critic. Rarely are things reviewed objectively any more. Quality of information has been reduced to the lowest common denominator. Pretty soon all we’ll have is that game show from Idiocracy.

I like the game. It’s still a 5 star game in my opinion. I don’t particularly enjoy the added armor, but I don’t think it’s going to impact the quality of my life much. I won’t be trying to ‘actively’ pursue it. If I wake up one day and I’m magically 60% of the way there and didn’t know it, I might, provided I don’t have to go to dungeons (I hate dungeons), but other than that, I continue to play and have fun.

BobJoeXXI.2493:

Merthax.5172:

Actually, I would much rather see people drop 1-start reviews on Amazon than this talk I’ve heard about people asking for refunds. Expressing discontent with a purchase is legitimate freedom of speech, asking for a refund on a game you’ve already put 100+ hours into just seems dishonest.

They were sold a product where they were guaranteed that it wouldn’t be a gear grind. After 100+ hours in, GW2 devs are changing the direction the game is heading in. The game is now becoming a gear grind for the best gear.

False advertisement warrants calls for refunds.

Where do you draw the line though? What if the game changes 3 years from now? Most products come with some type of warranty. Since this isn’t a physical product that can break in the traditional sense, I would expect a “money-back” guarantee.

Typical products I have seen are usually along the lines of 30 days money-back guarantee.

While I won’t do it myself, as I still enjoy the game for the time being, I can understand the feeling of frustration that would drive some people to give this game bad reviews.

Customers were lied to. Plain and simple. A lot of us purchased this game specifically because of the manifesto and various other interviews and blog posts by the dev team which promised no grind for gear, no power creep and ease of access to all content.

This patch was basically a slap in the face of all long time fans who loved GW2 specifically because it didn’t follow a strict EQ/WoW formula.

GG, ArenaNet/NCSoft/Nexon.

PS: you can’t out-WoW WoW. Many have tried and all have failed miserably. GW1 succeeded because it was different enough from WoW to be refreshing. GW2, if it continues down the path of emulating WoW will fail just like the other clones.

Merthax.5172:

BobJoeXXI.2493:

Merthax.5172:

Actually, I would much rather see people drop 1-start reviews on Amazon than this talk I’ve heard about people asking for refunds. Expressing discontent with a purchase is legitimate freedom of speech, asking for a refund on a game you’ve already put 100+ hours into just seems dishonest.

They were sold a product where they were guaranteed that it wouldn’t be a gear grind. After 100+ hours in, GW2 devs are changing the direction the game is heading in. The game is now becoming a gear grind for the best gear.

False advertisement warrants calls for refunds.

Where do you draw the line though? What if the game changes 3 years from now? Most products come with some type of warranty. Since this isn’t a physical product that can break in the traditional sense, I would expect a “money-back” guarantee.

Typical products I have seen are usually along the lines of 30 days money-back guarantee.

I would like to see some kind of standard when returning MMOs. Maybe each game could have some kind of guarantee of the package(haha tommy boy). They could be like, “hey, we guarantee you will enjoy this game for at least 30 days or your money back!”. In a way this already happens though. If I’m not mistaken, Arenanet is providing a full 6 months from purchase to request a refund! I think that is spectacular, kudos to you NCsoft for allowing something like this, too generous imo, but shows a lot of character.

BobJoeXXI.2493:

Merthax.5172:

Actually, I would much rather see people drop 1-start reviews on Amazon than this talk I’ve heard about people asking for refunds. Expressing discontent with a purchase is legitimate freedom of speech, asking for a refund on a game you’ve already put 100+ hours into just seems dishonest.

They were sold a product where they were guaranteed that it wouldn’t be a gear grind. After 100+ hours in, GW2 devs are changing the direction the game is heading in. The game is now becoming a gear grind for the best gear.

False advertisement warrants calls for refunds.

Are we playing the same game? GW2 was a gear grind at launch. You didn’t receive a full set of exotics at level 80, what did you really expect?

Zeke Minus.5720:

This isn’t against their Manifesto.

They’re just adding a more obtainable step between Exotic and Legendary items. Most people think this means they’re going to keep adding items higher than Legendary rarity, stat-wise.

Utterly wrong, they have not simply added a step, they have added stat progression, the stats were previously the same on legendary weapons as they were on exotics. If they had simply added a step, then ascended items would just be cosmetically between exotics and legendary.

They have done a total u-turn on their philosophy that they sold the product on pre-release in their manifesto, interviews, blogs, etc.

Zeke Minus.5720:

This isn’t against their Manifesto.

They’re just adding a more obtainable step between Exotic and Legendary items. Most people think this means they’re going to keep adding items higher than Legendary rarity, stat-wise.

Their loss, honestly. I think it’s great that Anet can take a step back and say, “Ahh, yeah, there should be something in between Exotic and Legendary that people can get, yet still feel accomplished about.”

EDIT: To be more clear, they’re going to add Legendary armor eventually, and people are going to complain like this. They have said that Legendary is the be-all, end-all in terms of difficulty and spectacle, so I’d take this to mean that they’re just bringing armor up to par with Legendary-tier weapons.

Um..wrong ~ many of the ascended items are a major grind to get, in terms of mats and gold costs. Grinding gold in this game is one of the worst I’ve ever seen and that is part of the problem, a casual player isn’t going to farm up 100g+ not before just quitting from boredom, even core players have trouble enough farming 50g let alone 100g+

Case and point, if 100g was easy to farm ~ Every 3rd player you met would be a commander.