Guilds. (seems like my original thread got removed, for some unknown reason).
I bring these topics up because the CDI for guilds was recently announced.
To me, a guild is a group of players bound by fellowship.
Guilds in gw2 seem to fall into 2 categories:
• Buff factories
• Event rosters. (teq/3headed wurm)
GW2 allows players to “be in” multiple guilds. In reality this just makes roaming in a 1-man guild more rewarding than being part of a guild (influence may be slower, but one can spend it how they like, EG guild vault for personal use).
The larger or mega- guilds out there just get used for buffs, GM’s and whatever else they give away. Often people are not interested in interacting with their guild mates. Sometimes faster to just fill a team with LFG than to wait for guildies to be done with what they are doing.
Many guilds ask for 100% rep, but people are just appearing offline so they can use that guild when it suits them (defeating the idea of fellowship).
I would love to see much more small instanced content (cough, dungeons) That are difficult and rewarding. Maybe using 2-3 parties, or larger parties (urgoz,ab for example).
• What does A-net think a guild is?
• What do the players thing a guild is?
• Why should I as a player choose to be in a guild at all?
• Where is my guild hall!?
ANet’s Chris W is planning on starting up the CDI – Guilds on Monday 9/8.
Maybe you want to repost your thoughts in there to get the most bang for your gold piece. In this thread they may just go unnoticed but in the CDI they read every post.
Just a thought.
Many guilds ask for 100% rep, but people are just appearing offline so they can use that guild when it suits them (defeating the idea of fellowship).
This is a thing? Been playing since release and this is the first I’ve heard of being able to be basically hidden while online. Please explain how to do this.
Multiple guilds is like multiple girl/boyfriends.
You wont be commited to any of them when there’s four others.
Many guilds ask for 100% rep, but people are just appearing offline so they can use that guild when it suits them (defeating the idea of fellowship).
This is a thing? Been playing since release and this is the first I’ve heard of being able to be basically hidden while online. Please explain how to do this.
its in the friends list, theres the green square for online.. set to the grey square for offline, it wont show rep.
Multiple guilds is like multiple girl/boyfriends.
You wont be commited to any of them when there’s four others.
The way I see it is no guild should require 100% rep. It’s not like multiple girl/boyfriends, it’s multiple friend [group]s. You hang out with them… when you want to hang out with them.
I see guilds saying that they’re “PvX” all the time. There is no such thing as a PvX guild. If you’re doing everything, you’re not doing anything at all, not as a guild and definitely not worthy enough to require someone to always be a part of your group.
My personal belief is that guilds should distinguish themselves similarly to the World Boss killing guilds or Dungeon running guilds or Temple farming guilds. They also should not require you to represent them and should be used (in conjunction with the Megaserver to soft-whitelist a slot for players) to help players when they want to do that part of the game.
For example, if I was in a PvE guild and I wanted to do Fractals, I’d represent the guild and ask if anyone is interested while I do something minute like crafting or soloing a camp in WvW (something that doesn’t make me sit there and whine until people will play with me). If I finished the Fractal, I could then swap over to my WvW guild and ask where they are and what they’re doing (maybe get on VOIP and just listen to where they are and then head over). Then when I’m done, I can swap to my PvP guild and get check out if any Arena teams need a fifth while I play some hotjoin.
That’s how you play PvX properly. It’s also how you utilize a 5 guild system without requiring 100% rep because it’s impossible for you, as a guild, to incorporate the entire game.
Now you can go ahead and argue that your guild does in fact do everything, but that’s not true. Some players do some parts, other players do other parts, and some players try to do everything. In the end, it gets split into factions and fractures itself into cliques, ruining the entire guild through drama.
Of course, my system isn’t perfect and doesn’t quite work without some loyalty (although you could do the best of both worlds and have a guild that’s 5 guilds with each being an emphasis on a different part of the game, which would truly be a 100% rep PvX guild… consisting of 5 guilds), but you should get the point by now.
100% rep is, and will always be, a ploy to force loyalty as opposed to earning it.
How a guild stays cohesive and successful is based completely on the maturity of its members.
Many guilds ask for 100% rep, but people are just appearing offline so they can use that guild when it suits them (defeating the idea of fellowship).
This is a thing? Been playing since release and this is the first I’ve heard of being able to be basically hidden while online. Please explain how to do this.
its in the friends list, theres the green square for online.. set to the grey square for offline, it wont show rep.
Right but don’t you still show up in the guild list, and just show offline on friends list?
@Esplen, As opposed to your ploy, to exploit guilds when it suits you? You want someone else to do all the work, and have many banquet tables laid out for you, without contributing to any of them. This is the point of view that makes me dislike the multiple guild system.
Why does one need a guild specifically for world bosses/temples? You show up at scheduled spawn and AA.
Why does one need a guild that is a glorified place to spam “LFG DUNGEON NOW PLZ!” go pug on the LFG system. Which people do if it takes more than a few minutes to get people anyway.
That for me isn’t a guild. I don’t consider people who non-rep frequently to be “in my guild”. They are more like mercenaries at best.
100% rep only exists because people can rep another guild, rather than having to leave to join another guild. This just makes it easy for those who wish to exploit buffs/GMs/Free stuff in guild banks etc.
What you describe is:
1: a buff factory (including GMs).
2: an event roster. Be it dungeons, world bosses, Whatever.
Edit: Where someone else does the work to organize those for you.
@ Draknar, Nope, shows you as offline in all lists, including guild rosters.
I would personally much rather see an alliance system like gw1, over this multiple guild system.
Like I said, it’s like having different groups of friends.
Some people only have one group of friends. Some people have no groups of friends. Some people have many groups of friends.
However, rarely do I ever see groups of friends making sure that you’re always with them and not allowed to have friends with other people. Nor do I think it should happen. That’s the gist of my point.
You have a friends list for that.
Guild =/= friend list.
Edit: With guilds so large, its difficult to know everyone in a single guild, let alone 5.
Also, That is why we need alliances. To allow guilds with some specialization to work together.
Maybe something a bit more versatile than the gw1 alliance system.
Allow allied guilds to view rosters ( for contacting another guilds officers).
Maybe do away with the alliance leader concept, and make each guild have equal right to allow guilds to join. Vote kick similar to parties (accessible by leader assigned permissions maybe).
This would allow guilds to work together more easily, and allow members to join an allied guild for different content. While still allowing them to contribute to their own guilds influence, and benefits that come with that influence pool.
I’m sure this could be refined further, but ultimately, it allows people to feel truly part of a guild, rather than part of a random bunch of people on a list.
The question I hear a lot is: why should i have to rep if that person doesn’t?
Why do I have to contribute to these buffs/consumables (gms etc) if they don’t have to, but can use them when they want?
Simple fact is, those people aren’t really part of the guild, but more like leeches. It encourages people to only look out for themselves. That isn’t a guild.
(edited by Artemis Thuras.8795)
And yet another person who does not understand how to perceive an analogy.
I agree with Artemis, I’d like to see an alliance system come to Guild Wars 2.
It was one of the better community creators from Guild Wars.
And it gives smaller guilds, like mine, a chance at actually doing something in the world.
Whut didn’t I already post in this topic? Pretty sure I did.
Well what I said was that in the following thread there is a list of things posted all over the forum with guild-ralated suggestions:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-System-Improvements-Suggestions/first#post3943131
The guilds could use some more love. From UI / interface tools and options like showing last represented and graphics with over time line of representing, online and influence earnings by members to using that info to set scrips to automatically upgrade a member rank. But also improvements to the message of the day and so on.
I would also like to see there would be more for a guild to work towards.
Like in a WvW like map where guilds can build there won castles maybe with PvP so they have also a reason to defend it. As long as all you do and earn is game-related not cash-shop related.
I will try to be active in the CDI. Did not know there was a guild CDI coming up.
“Just because they are your friends, it does not mean they are my friends.”
I have a very happy and healthy guild of about 150 players. 30-50 of us are really active. We don’t use the guild as a buff factory or a way to do events.
Because some guilds are social guilds. We play with friends. We enjoy ourselves more. If someone needs help with a dungeon, there’s usually someone to fill in the fifth spot, you got someone. If you need a tower in WvW for the last point in world completion…we’ll help you take it.
We have fun events that are fun, not profitable. We run guild missions because we have fun doing it.
One of the last events we did, our 2nd birthday event, we had games including hide and seek, and “darts” where someone jumped off the top of a tower to get to a really hard spot in divinty’s reach and everyone else tried to land as close to him as possible for prizes.
Guilds don’t always have to be about profit.
Now you can go ahead and argue that your guild does in fact do everything, but that’s not true.
If you can say this with that kind of certainty you should be able to tell us what our guilds do.
What does my guild do ?
What did my GW1 guild do ?
I agree with Artemis, I’d like to see an alliance system come to Guild Wars 2.
It was one of the better community creators from Guild Wars.
And it gives smaller guilds, like mine, a chance at actually doing something in the world.
Agreed.
My guild was part of a 900+ member alliance which made for some very interesting times.
Whut didn’t I already post in this topic? Pretty sure I did.
Well.. Search didn’t give anything when I checked. Some of those ideas i would love to see. I’m not going to pick out every single one I like but, more control over rank permissions, ability to view individual guildies influence, Being able to leave in-game notes about a member for other officers could be very handy. These 3 ideas caught my attention the most.
Don’t these ‘leechers’ have to represent the Guild to receive the buffs? If they are representing the Guild, are they not generating influence? If they are generating influence, how can they be labeled as ‘leechers’?
Don’t these ‘leechers’ have to represent the Guild to receive the buffs? If they are representing the Guild, are they not generating influence? If they are generating influence, how can they be labeled as ‘leechers’?
They can leech guild missions. They can also take advantage of the buffs when it suits them, while others have to rep 100% to be able to pay for them. I’ve even had some people like that tell me I should convert gold into influence to maintain the buffs for them.
I guess every Guild Leader has the option to remove said ‘leechers’. I mean, it shouldn’t be a problem after a short period of time. /shrug
Quality over quantity, and all that. =)
The problem is, when people can hide as offline, how does one tell who is leeching, and who isn’t? – you can’t.
How exactly is a leader meant to observe every member 24/7? leaders are real people, with real lives too! – They also want to play the game, not have a second job.
I would rather quality members of quantity myself (As i said, I struggle to know everyone in a guild with a 500 cap, let alone get to know people in FIVE of them..), but the influence cost of buffs basically says: mega zerg guild or no buffs. Also influence is way slower since they nerfed the world boss chains. As much as i found them boring and annoying that the best loot was something so mindless, it was also a huge influence revenue.
But the cost of buffs is another topic I plan on putting in the guild CDI when its open.
But, you can’t represent if you are offline (whether truly offline or only cosmetically), so you can’t get the buffs. I’m not sure what the problem is with the buffs.
But, you can’t represent if you are offline (whether truly offline or only cosmetically), so you can’t get the buffs. I’m not sure what the problem is with the buffs.
Being offline HIDES weather you’re repping or not.
This happens quite a lot. Not that people like to admit doing it.
And the problem is, those buffs cost (however you wish to look at it, influence is a currency). Having those buffs available when you feel like is a commodity (it also takes time from guild leaders to activate and build them).
Why should 1 person get to have that luxury when it suits, but expect another to pay for it for them? Its highly selfish. Selfish people =/= good guildies.
And yes, I know I could just kick them, but that doesn’t encourage loyalty, it just breeds resentment. catch-22.
I wouldn’t mind seeing some sort of tier system for guilds ranging from casual to “core”. Or…some kind of PvP, PvE, or WvW tag system.
Make expectations known from the get-go. Websites are usually a good way to lay them out.
I also agree with the statement about having 3-4 guilds is like having 3-4 girlfriends, you’re not really loyal to one.
I also agree with the statement about having 3-4 guilds is like having 3-4 girlfriends, you’re not really loyal to one.
Not at all. A girlfriend (or boyfriend) has a reasonable expectation of an attentive partner. A social organization doesn’t. Your friends that you go with to see baseball on Saturdays shouldn’t mind that you play poker on Fridays with another group. Your automobile club shouldn’t mind that you also belong to the Plumber’s Union.
Everyone belongs to guilds for different reasons. And because of that, there are different types of guilds. Here are more than five types of guilds I would want my guildies to join:
Finally, why do you care if someone is leeching from your guild? I get that improvements are expensive (they are indeed), but unless your guild is running at 450+ members who earn at least 5-10 APs/month, the leecher isn’t actually harming your guild substantially. If its’ a small guild, you’ll know who they are; if it’s big, they can’t have a notable impact.
I also agree with the statement about having 3-4 guilds is like having 3-4 girlfriends, you’re not really loyal to one.
Not at all.
Compared to Guild Wars 1, I mean.
- Our guild, for socializing, casual play.
- Personal storage.
- RP guild: for those who care about such things.
- WvW guild; our guild doesn’t do this regularly.
- Dungeon guild: for those who like to speed clear.
- Cooperative-event guild: for those who want to hit Teq, 3H Worm, and/or special event instances together.
- Friend from RL: there might be 10 who can only play 2-3 days a month and not belong to any of those other guilds.
first: you can do that in any group of people.
RP needs a guild? ok. each to their own. I know plenty of guilds who liked to have a theme in gw1.
WvW raids.. Basically an event roster. Could organize these via server forums and make them less of an exclusive club. But I know my opinion differs to many on this one. (but then a lot of people insist WvW or scrub. (though making it so you can only be in a single guild would make servers work together as a server, not as isolated little cliches.
Dungeons.. Well why can’t a casual guild also have good dungeon runs? You’re saying casual = bad?
Cooperative events.. these are done by pugs (even 3head wurm on eu servers) Why do you need a guild dedicated to that?
Reading all this people can keep discussing how people should see guild and how guilds should see members and whats appropriate and not.
However in the end it all comes back to a lack of tools for guilds. Whether you have a problem with non-loyal guilds or setting rules and ranks and so on.
If from the list I linked before all the guild-management tools would get implemented there would be none of these (and other related problems).
Separate from that I really think guilds need goals. Now guilds are fun for guild-missions and useful for buff but except for that it has no other game-function. You can do things… is a socialize club but game-wise there is not much more and they should do that.
We have WvW implement castle building like in AA but then in a more GW2 WvW setting. Put in guild dungeons where you can earn (so no buying with gems as that removes the game element) many of the rewards you can put in that castle. The castle can also be a sort of guild-hall. Stuff like that would make guilds more interesting to invest in. And it would simply be more fun!
GW2 guilds have little in common with GW1 guilds.
They’re basically loose communities that most often form around a common goal and not social bonds.
One of the reasons this came to be is because at the start of the game we had no LFG tool. Couple that with the fact that you could have 5 guilds to switch between and people quickly realized you can create content-oriented guilds for FOTM, TEQ or whatever else you need done.
It became the convenient way to get people for whatever you needed – and even though we have a LFG tool now this initial mentality remained with guilds.
That’s what you get in a game that’s more goal oriented than its predecessor.
We have WvW implement castle building like in AA but then in a more GW2 WvW setting. Put in guild dungeons where you can earn (so no buying with gems as that removes the game element) many of the rewards you can put in that castle. The castle can also be a sort of guild-hall. Stuff like that would make guilds more interesting to invest in. And it would simply be more fun!
You mean a guild hall?
The problems with adding lots of tools to deal with an underlying issue are:
It becomes difficult to learn/understand the guild system.
It still doesn’t change guilds being more of event rostas.
I’d agree the mentality is reminiscent of when there was no LFG tool.
More guild oriented content needed for sure. Particularly harder more rewarding content. suitable for groups of 5-15. Even in a mega-guild of 400-500, it can be difficult getting more than that together because of timezones.
The cost of buffs prohibits smaller, single timezone guilds too.
Maybe rebalance the size (500 cap) and the cost of buffs would be a suitable option? Would make management of a guild much easier, freeing up more time for leaders to enjoy playing the game with their guildies.
I had a thought. Though it certainly has its downsides, it would remove the need for a guild to demand 100% rep. The only reason guilds are asking for this is the influence generation. beyond that, is indeed up to the quality of the guild.
What about making a person generate influence for each guild they are in, regardless of the guild they are repping?
I’m sure we would also like the cost of the buffs to be reevaluated given that influence is much harder to earn since many event chains were nerfed.
Many guilds ask for 100% rep, but people are just appearing offline so they can use that guild when it suits them (defeating the idea of fellowship).
This is a thing? Been playing since release and this is the first I’ve heard of being able to be basically hidden while online. Please explain how to do this.
its in the friends list, theres the green square for online.. set to the grey square for offline, it wont show rep.
Right but don’t you still show up in the guild list, and just show offline on friends list?
The guild roster does show you are offline, but it also shows the zone you are in, so if you move, it is easily noticeable.
What about making a person generate influence for each guild they are in, regardless of the guild they are repping?
That is a good idea.
The guild roster does show you are offline, but it also shows the zone you are in, so if you move, it is easily noticeable.
Does it show location to entire guild or just you?
I’ll test with a couple of guildies later to see. If we can tell it’d be quite interesting what people are up to.
Edit: extension of influence counting for every guild one is in.. Allow the ability to toggle which guild chats you wish to see (and which chat you talk in).
These could be distinguished by including the guild tag in with the persons name in guild chat.
Integrating guilds into chat might be tricky, but I’m certain it can be done. Display could be similar to that of alliance chat vs guild chat in gw1.
Guilds would be better equipped to generate influence, and build a community (without the added stresses and drama of repping being an issue).
With the flexibility of people can make their own alliance of guilds, rather than the rigid system gw1 had.
(edited by Artemis Thuras.8795)
The guild roster does show you are offline, but it also shows the zone you are in, so if you move, it is easily noticeable.
Does it show location to entire guild or just you?
Entire guild. Similar effect can be observed through friend list as well, but i think you have to be friended back for it to get to a full display – don’t remember at the moment if the location is in basic or full info.
Mind you, location shown by itself doesn’t tell you much – for truly offline people it is the last location before logging out. It is the fact that the location changes when offline that is telling.
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Tested with a guildie last night. Only seemed to work if partied up, or on friends lists.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.