Guild Wars 2

I’ve been reading posts on the forums since the Guild Wars 2 went live and wasn’t surprised by all the negativity, as it seems to be the (un)natural course MMO forums seem to take.
Some of the topics warrant the concerned tone, such as profession balance, exploits, gold sellers and server transfers, but it’s the self-centric and aggressive manner in which it’s delivered that turns me off. Demoralizing the development staff and fellow players by threatening to quit, making biased comparisons to other games or outright name calling will garner nothing for an otherwise great community.

Guild Wars 2 is still in its infancy, and so is still learning to walk; expecting it to run and leap hurdles is asking too much. Your comments and suggestions are in a way teaching the infant how to walk, so please be kind and gentle; you’ll get better results in the end by not screaming and kicking the baby

I’ve been out of the MMO scene for a number of years, mostly because my life is getting too busy to spend much time in a community based game, but also because I have not found anything worth playing for too long. My first “addiction” was Everquest and I compare all others to it, but not in the game dynamics, graphics, pvp, character balance or other such technical things, but in the amazing community in the early days of the game. I still get pangs in my heart when I think about how everyone used to sell their goods in the EC tunnel or battling my first Sand Giant with a group of strangers or even the pvp fights which resulted in friends coming to your aid; such a great community back then. Guild Wars 2 has this potential, but with everyone bringing their negativity to the forums and then into the game saddens me, and I wonder why and how did MMOs begin to attract such antisocial behavior and self-centric game technicians who see the pixels but not the beautiful landscape.

My parents never bight us copious amount of toys growing up, it was mostly hand-me-downs from cousins and such, but man, did we love those toys, broken and otherwise. Little plastic soldiers with bent guns and no heads, hotwheels cars with no tires or even miniature train set with no tracks were loved by my brother and I. We would bring them outside to play with and our friends would come over with their shiny new toys, but we didn’t care, were happy and heel to have what we had. I think this sentiment is missing when people espouse that they spent X amount of dollars for this game and expect it to be exactly how they want it … they’ve forgotten how to be happy with what they have.

I’m not saying that you shouldn’t expect the game to change or evolve to become a more polished and enjoyable experience, but man, give it some time! Step back, enjoy what you have now, but voice your opinion in a constructive manner that will advocate a positive change in the future.

Thank you ArenaNet for bringing me back into an enjoyable MMO and thank you for all your hard work in developing the game and for the future potential I look forward to experiencing.

I do expect to get flamed, but if this post gives pause to even one negative player, I’ll be happy.

BTW, I play a Ranger… We need some love

Grim

You sir deserve a +1. Well said!

The OP brings up a good point, the shape of the community of GW2 is in our hands.

We players can either make it a positive community around a game we enjoy or we can make it a negative community of a bunch of entitled whiners.

That doesn’t mean things can’t improve or that we can’t keep suggesting improvements, but we should keep in mind ArenaNet has stated they are interested in continuing to evolve and improve their game as well.

They’ve also shown that they are taking steps to fix things. (One example is the very quick fix of the Haunted Halloween doors which are now all persistent due to bugged dynamic events. ) Bugs happen and ArenaNet has shown they can and will fix things.

They’ll keep tweaking and balance things but it’s impossible for that process to make every single player happy. But the overall game is still one of the most entertaining video game experiences I have had (MMO or otherwise) in a while.

I think it’s mostly because of this lie: “when it’s ready”

When you build a relationship on a lie, that relationship tends to fail.

Nice post.

BTW, I play a Ranger… We need some love
Grim

My Necro is starting a support group =P

The only way it evolves properly is if we give them input… I agree that the manner in which we deliver that input could be less emotional/flaming.

I’m not sure I understand your comment about biased comparison to other games. Do you mean bias in that we like game A and GW2 should adopt this? If so, I think that depends. We can and should be biased when comparing a particular mechanical aspect (or combination of aspects) in GW2 to other games that have similar aspects which work well regardless of genre… For example, some people don’t like the matchmaking system. Can I not use an FPS matchmaking system that works well for comparison against GW2’s system? Asking for a better match making, LFG system, or encounters that aren’t so one dimensional, and using examples of games that implement these things very well, are sensible requests that don’t go against the design philosophy… asking for a trinity system, loot treadmill, or things specifically against the philosophy is another thing.

I work directly with customers in my job. Sometimes promising on an end result of a project is the wrong thing to do. Things will change as the project is dynamic, not static and therefore the end shape may not be as envisioned by the customer. If the project does not look like what the customer wanted, but ends up doing what the customer wanted, then I consider it successful. Sometimes it’s better to give the customer no information rather than that the reality that you are at a stalemate with the other project developers and need time to come up with a solution. The customer usually ends up boiling mad and discontent with the whole project. If you say “we’re working on it”, they may get impatient, but not angry enough to drop the job.

@Bruno Sardine.2907

I agree with you, as I myself sated that I compare all other MMO games to Everquest. What I meant by that statement was when people say that GW2 should be more like XYZ game or it will suck, or GW2 is just like XYZ so it will fail. That is not a fair assessment as GW2 is not XYZ, but it’s own identity. GW2 has it’s own flavour and style which sets itself apart from other MMO games and is what makes it unique.

I think some of the problem is related to perception of action. When a game comes out people expect bugs, but they also expect things to be done about those bugs and in a sensible timeframe. What people are perceiving at the moment is a lot of new content that is focussed on gems giving an advantage. Couple this with areas of the game remaining bugged to the point of unplayability and the ‘moneygrabbing’ mindset starts to creep in. At the moment the people doing well are perceived to be those who have paid to get ahead and those who are super lucky in the RNG. As both of these things are hated by gamers it is inevitable that ire will be felt towards the game creator and their forum.

What you are seeing is those with little tolerance gradually wearing down those with more tolerance until we get to a point where it’s a free for all. People cant express their anger when there is no person to direct it too from Anet.

What needs to be done is some management of peoples perceptions and expectations but Anet is chosing to focus their efforts elsewhere. I fully expect it to get worse over the next few months as more people realise that the items they want are either 200 days of grinding, credit card debt or server switching to find unbugged vendors/mats.

@OP
Please know I am not saying this in a condescending way but it does show you haven’t been in the mmo area for a few years. This is the norm now on the forums. Every mmo after WoW people have complained about content and wanting more etc. Unfortunately the first month has always been the peak and drops big time after. Not one mmo after WoW has continued to go up, well at least not after taking a huge drop. People rush to max level and get bored. But in some cases people are correct in wanting more so quickly. Age of Conan had a horrible launch of content. Once you finished the starter area there was almost no content after. They also had a huge spot, forgot the level range, but had 0 content so you couldn’t really level. Took a long time for them to get this content out.

But in all honesty imo GW2 simply lacks a lot. The pvp is mediocre which this game is supposed to be about. Leveling was the worst i have seen. Believe it or not I am thankful for the quest system now. Having to farm events over and over in each zone is dumb especially when there are basically only 3 types of events. Escort, kill a boss or defend an area.

I will say at least ToR came out with new content extremely quick. Only mmo to do that. Yes then they hit a roadblock but people still don’t understand why. They know about the firings and new direction for the game but they don’t understand all that is pretty big in house and takes a lot of time to figure out and get back on track. So of course there was no new content or info because there was no direction set. Now that there is they are pumping out content quickly again.

I have said it before but no mmo will ever be like WoW was nor have those numbers. MMO’s will continue to be hyped and after a month drop big time and 6 months later it will level out and will basically stay that way for awhile. Each will have its own fan base who will stay. Expansions will bring some back and some new people but will be wash and rinse as it will drop a month after.

I don’t see GW2 failing since it is no monthly fee, but the peak definitely has already hit and people logging on and time spent on I will bet any money it is way down from the first 3 weeks of launch. Heck I am not giving up on the game even though right now I really am not liking it, but new content may help and I am going to give it time which is why I stopped playing for now. If you aren’t having fun then why play?

But patience is the biggest key which many people will never have when it comes to mmos. I always tell people to wait 3 to 6 months before playing a new mmo if you can’t handle bugs and lack of content.

I agree Ranger need some love. Also the Necromancer and the Thief in PvE.

[Opinion – I will stress this again; the following is my personal opinion on why the current MMO players are as they are.]

In my opinion: The comparison in today’s MMOs and the earliest MMOs (such as EQ) comes from this: Dependency on others.

If any player was to succeed in “old school” MMOs we were reliant upon our fellow gamers. A bad attitude earned a bad reputation. A bad rep earned fewer groups and fewer opportunities to progress.
The toxic “elitist” attitude was frowned upon (as it still is) and a player with such an attitude would find themselves without group members as quickly as a notoriously poor player.
The combination of these made sure the majority of players at least tried to be polite to each other.

Enter modern MMOs. Modern MMOs added a lot of PvP* to their side games; that something to do when “there’s nothing to do” if you will. This meant, there was suddenly a need for personal growth outside the group setting.
Old School games meant anyone in your usual grouping getting an upgrade; meant the entire group getting a boost in power. Not the case now as the mentality has shifted from “congrats!” to “Where’s mine?”.
This is made even worse as soloing and the Corporate Efficiency mindset take their hold. Now each 0.01% must be accounted for and maximized.
Add those issues together and the generalized confusion on “Entitled” (not talking about or referring to anyone in this thread) comes out. A player asking for the ability to work towards or earn their own rewards is often labeled as “Entitled”. This comes from the Corporate mindset. Anyone standing up and asking for work and fair pay/rewards for their effort/labor is called “Entitled” because they are not happy with feeling cheated or their wages/rewards are too low for their efforts.
So, the Corporate Efficiency/Mindset, PvP and the requirement on Solo play all come together to create a “Me” generation of gamers that must look out for themselves because no one else has their back – whereas, old school MMOs; without someone at your back, you wouldn’t go very far.

This type of mentality clashes with us “old school” MMOers (at least it does for myself). I see people linking their goodies in chat and if I see a rare or item the player is proud of; I send them a “congrats!”. I’m further baffled at the almost always following hatred that flows after with demands to “stop spamming your ____” and the “Anet, where’s mine? How am I supposed to compete now? Do I have to buy Gems to keep up?”

*This is not meant to say PvP is a bad thing. I like PvP in some games, it’s fun!

Like I said, that’s my personal opinion on how the MMO genre has become what we have. Hope it makes some sense.

Bravo OP! Bravo! +1

vince.5937:

Several times in LA map chat I’ve seen someone pull this card, and when they get utterly demolished by the actual friendly players they say “Oh I was just trolling.” No, you weren’t, you were being an entitled buttcrack. There is no such thing as trolling anymore. Trolling is just a lazy internet word for being a dick.

Ok, that is just spot-on. There is no such thing as trolling anymore.

@bojangles

Hey, no offense was taken

You are correct though that I have been out of the MMO scene for to long to realize that things have changed… It’s the Rip Van Winkle effect. Perhaps I’m longing for something that has passed already.

I’m still enjoying GW2, but it may be because I only have some hours on the weekend to play, but I suspect it may be because it immerses me in a fun and enjoyable way.

munkiman.3068:

You sir deserve a +1. Well said!

Correction, you deserved a +1, until you stated Rangers need buffs of all things. Try playing an Elementalist or a Necro, you’ll never complain about your Ranger again. :P

If ANet came out and explained what they saw as issues and what their priorities were I think most players would be a lot more relaxed about the situation.

As it stands currently though there are countless broken and bugged features of this game that haven’t been addressed since beta and we haven’t received any word from ANet that they’re aware or even care. I know it’s up to them how communicative they are but the problem is players are feeling like they aren’t valued. If you were playing a necro, or elementalist or mesmer with traits bugged to hell and zero fixes to them since launch I imagine you’d also be just as frustrated.

The dev team just seriously need to start communicating with the players.

Conncept.7638:

munkiman.3068:

You sir deserve a +1. Well said!

Correction, you deserved a +1, until you stated Rangers need buffs of all things. Try playing an Elementalist or a Necro, you’ll never complain about your Ranger again. :P

Actually he/she said “need some love” which i tend to agree with, the pet AI is horrid and the shortbow feels very meh. I actually enjoy my Ele as is, even being squishy, just have to be super mobile. Hopefully the 15th patch clears up some class frustrations.

< ten years of MMOs and their respective forums experience, i havent seen A SINGLE ONE that wasnt like this at some point or another, the best thing Anet and we can do is this:

ignore the haters, ranters, whiners, trolls, and anyone that cant take the patience time and decency to provide their FEEDBACK on a correct manner, and make it a point to answer to the well written feedback and acknowledging those posters

the whiners and petulant children will eventually move on to troll the next hipster thing , and Anet will save themselves the headache of trying to please a 100% UNPLEASABLE mass of content locusts that will never shut up no matter how good of a job they do

when they finally go away , what we are left with are the people with common sense that wont throw a hissy fit because they didnt get their halloween skin on their 10th run or w/e

I agree with totally with Vince. Nothing anyone paid for any game should give them the right to be such complete kittenholes on any gaming forum. Some games just seem to put up with it.

Looks like, to me, that ANet has gotten tired of it too. The forums are pretty heavily moderated now and I, for one, welcome the change.

Reddit’s Guild Wars 2 discussion is what I envisioned a forum would look like: helpful posts, tips from pro players, no sarcastic nonsense, and legitimate objections with evidence to back it up.

It’s just too much to ask for on forums nowadays.