Guild Wars 2

Hello!

Am i the only one who thinks that guns/pistols dont really fit fantasy mmos? Its ok, i dont mind them that much, but it annoys me till that point, that there is no way i could use them, even tho they are op… Because fantasy worlds, magic, monsters, swords, bows etc… And then there are the guns…
Anyone else?:D

Regards.

a fantasy world is what its creators make of it, there is no “Tolkien´s mandatory guide to boring copycat scenarios”.

Also, aren´t you a bit late to this party?

That’s because fantasy is often stereotyped by the worlds Conan and Lotr and D&D laid down. Simply put fantasy is and should be, so very much more than that. It’s just whether guns are introduced in the right way to the setting and not simply for the sake of it.

I think GW2 pulls it off reasonably well by trying to show a technological advancement blended alongside magic. Such tech advancement is an oft overlooked part of fantasy evolution in a series or franchise.

This game takes place hundreds of years after the first GW. Of course there will be technological advancements.

Also, fantasy doesn’t have to be strictly medieval swords and sorcery. You can have steampunk fantasy, modern day fantasy, or hell even sci-fi fantasy.

GW2 is not a fantasy game. It is a mix of steampunk and magicpunk. I personally like it that way. If it is not your genre there are many other games that are more ‘purely’ fantasy. I think it is good that there is diversity in the genre of games.

Fantasy universes aren’t all the same, and not all fantasy universes are going to be the medieval fantasy you seem to be describing. In GW2’s universe, guns are a thing. The end.

I think you mean medieval mmos not fantasy.

and well the way some of the classes uses the guns, aint exactly traditional ways to use a gun

Strictly speaking, Star Wars is fantasy, too. There’s lots of guns in SW that nobody seems to mind – even though it also has swords^^

Technicalities aside, it doesn’t seem to bother a lot of people. It’s a sign of a carefully crafted world when technological advancement is actually depicted, as somebody else pointed out.
About the “guns are OP” thing… not really^^ It doesn’t show in the game because of mechanics, but in Ghosts of Ascalon, one of the main characters uses a pistol that she only uses for a single shot before she reloads it – much like the first guns made in the real world. So even when taking the guns vs. swords and magic thing into account, guns are hardly overpowered.

Steampunk stuff blends extremely well with fantasy. I see no inherent problems with it.

I can imagine a fictional world where the stuff that makes magic go poof is incompatible with the stuff that makes guns go bang as well though.

My fantasy isn’t your fantasy. ^^

A fantasy world is any really that doesn’t mirror our world. It can be medieval, steampunk, elves and dwarves, or…. you name it. Guild Wars 2’s world is a mixture of high technology, magic and low technology along with new races not seen on earth.

Well op then gw2 isnt the right mmo for you. The timeline in the game is close to industrial times and firearms exist, so do airships, helicopters, submarines, tanks, “robots” (watchwork), mech suits (dredge tech) and much more. Also what makes these things less fantasy? Or do you count from plants grown pistols or from bones carved rifles as non fantasy? This game isnt your traditional medieval\fantasy setting.

Algreg.3629:

a fantasy world is what its creators make of it, there is no “Tolkien´s mandatory guide to boring copycat scenarios”.

Reminded me of the start of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtdurL_bfsc

Saruman had exploding powders and the men of Bree were industrialized. Reall, we were just one step away from seeing orcs with muskets in Middle-earth. An AR15 would be out of place in epic fantasy, yes.

gw2 is fantasy but doesnt feel that fantasy maybe because other games have set a higher expectations =)

SkyShroud.2865:

gw2 is fantasy but doesnt feel that fantasy maybe because other games have set a higher expectations

Or y’know maybe because it’s different to other fantasy games?

Does this mean that Tera isn’t a fantasy game anymore with the introduction of the Gunner class?

Different =/= inferior/superior.

I suppose after decades of elves everywhere, “fantasy” has adopted a very narrow definition, with everything deviating from that definition needing an extra label to be properly recognised as non-standard fantasy.
Science-fantasy, urban fantasy, historical fantasy… if it’s just labelled as “fantasy”, people expect Lord of the Rings and are disappointed when they get Dishonored. Less the fault of an individual and more of creators producing the same content over and over again (though I admit, I used to be guilty of that as well; trying to be more creative nowadays…).
It’s also not really higher expectations, rather it’s expectations of a certain standard, like the abovementioned elves, dwarves, mages with robes and a single monolith religion for an entire country. Take any of those things and change them, people will think it’s weird and “not really fantasy”. Frankly, anyone expecting those exact same things from their fantasy has actually pretty low expectations…

Red Queen.7915:

Science-fantasy, urban fantasy, historical fantasy… if it’s just labelled as “fantasy”, people expect Lord of the Rings and are disappointed when they get Dishonored.

Hard to imagine being disappointed with Dishonored, even if elves and unicorns were expected.

That game is amazing.

Sci-Fi fantasy is where its at.
Guild Wars 3: 1000 years later, and we head back to the humans’ original homeworld.

Tolkien is only the father of modern fantasy. Doesn’t mean we have follow everything he did. In fact, if you want to be a published fantasy author, you better stay away from elves and dwarves because that will give an even slimmer chance of being published. Elves and dwarves are vastly overused; especially elves.

I have a lot of respect for Tolkien, mind you, but we can have pistols and rifles. We have asura and charr to show that we’re quite ahead of the middle ages in this game. :P

Fantasy is not elves and dwarves in medieval Europe.

What this thread needs is more people telling the OP the same thing almost everyone else in this thread has said but in different words.

As others have noted Fantasy does not necessarily equate to the medieval Europe inspired Tolkien-esqe setting.

And even if it DID, guess what? Medieval Europe had guns! Not very good ones, mind you, but I went to a museum once where there were suits of armor with damage from bullets and the person giving the tour mentioned that sometimes blacksmiths selling armor would show how good their armor was by firing a pistol at it.

Granted, yeah, that’s at the tail end of the time period when guns were first invented, but yeah. It took a while for guns to get good enough to render bows and swords completely obsolete, (Mainly once they stopped having a 2 minute per bullet reload time since you had to manually stuff gunpowder into the barell) so they did in fact co-exist for a while. Guns are a fair bit older than we really give them credit for. As soon as the tech for making cannons, fireworks, and black powder bombs comes along, handheld guns won’t be too far behind.

In fact, Gw2 guns are more or less balanced in line with medieval guns, because they’re actually pretty much the worst weapons in the game.

For EVERY class that can actually use a gun, it tends to be one of the worst weapon choices. (Including engineers, because Kits>Guns)

In terms of their actual functionality, of course they’re way better than their time-period appropriate counterparts, but so are the other weapons.

Why wouldn’t guns exist in this world? As soon as someone figures out how to make something explode, it’s only a matter of time until they figure out how to make it propel something in a specific direction.

Phy.2913:

Why wouldn’t guns exist in this world? As soon as someone figures out how to make something explode, it’s only a matter of time until they figure out how to make it propel something in a specific direction.

I don’t know why, but you sounded like an asura talking when you posted that. At least to me. :P

The interesting thing about technological development in GW2 is how split-personality it can be. For example, in Sparkfly Fen, you have an event at one end of the map where you have to use basically medieval technology (trebuchets) to sink a Risen ship, and at the other end of the map, as we all know, the Vigil have a huge laser emplaced to defend against Tequatl.

joe.7684:

The interesting thing about technological development in GW2 is how split-personality it can be. For example, in Sparkfly Fen, you have an event at one end of the map where you have to use basically medieval technology (trebuchets) to sink a Risen ship, and at the other end of the map, as we all know, the Vigil have a huge laser emplaced to defend against Tequatl.

Honestly, its one of the things that’s kind of frustrating.
With the way Asuran tech works, it’s kind of hard to be impressed by any of the Charr war machines and kind of confusing how it hasn’t become more prominent.

Then again, the Asura are basically 1980s Donatello, so I don’t think I’d really like them taking the spotlight any more than they already do.

AegisRunestone.8672:

Phy.2913:

Why wouldn’t guns exist in this world? As soon as someone figures out how to make something explode, it’s only a matter of time until they figure out how to make it propel something in a specific direction.

I don’t know why, but you sounded like an asura talking when you posted that. At least to me. :P

Nah not really, if he/she was an Asura there would be more fancy (red.: gibberish) words in it, and it would hardly be understandable

Dark Saviour.9410:

joe.7684:

The interesting thing about technological development in GW2 is how split-personality it can be. For example, in Sparkfly Fen, you have an event at one end of the map where you have to use basically medieval technology (trebuchets) to sink a Risen ship, and at the other end of the map, as we all know, the Vigil have a huge laser emplaced to defend against Tequatl.

Honestly, its one of the things that’s kind of frustrating.
With the way Asuran tech works, it’s kind of hard to be impressed by any of the Charr war machines and kind of confusing how it hasn’t become more prominent.

Then again, the Asura are basically 1980s Donatello, so I don’t think I’d really like them taking the spotlight any more than they already do.

From what i understand Asuran tech is basically magic and technology combined, which sure has it advantages but, likely just as many disadvantages as the pure tech things the charr are using. On top of that too, the charr as a race are a FAR more developed warfare race with a strict and effective military structure, where asura barely have a hint of that sort of stuff, thus while asuran weaponry might be advantageous sometimes, that is far outdone by the structure and discipline in the charr ranks

The Lion guard have got machine guns .
Theres a quest i think its in Diessa Plateau where they have a row of these things guarding a road.
They look like gatling guns .
Wish I could have one.

Yeah I think it depends on how they are constructed. I’m not usually a huge fan of them to begin with and the GW2 version is….sort of ok. Mostly it’s loud and slow. I wish they had given it more functionality with Mesmer skills. It’s barely useful the way it is. I’ve heard people argue for builds with it in spvp which is fine and all, but it’s just not that fun to play.

My favorite gun toting class is surprisingly the Gunner from Aion. It plays smoothly, with tons of skill options and is very fast paced. The feel of the shooting makes it almost like an action game!

Aside from that, I mostly agree with you. Was never a huge fan of guns in fantasy games to begin with.

Not to mention Lazorz basically ruined Zhaitan, haha.

Personally, I prefer settings that have some logical technological progression, rather than being one of those stereotypical fantasy worlds that get stuck in the Middle Ages for millennia. Look at Middle-Earth: they had iron mail in the First Age (roughly equivalent to 400BC or so technology, although the impression I get from the Silmarillion is quite a bit more advanced than that) and were just maybe thinking about industrialisation at the time of Lord of the Rings, over six thousand years later.

Regarding asura versus charr stuff: I think part of the distinction is that charr stuff is mass producible and reasonably reliable. Asura stuff… isn’t. Charr stuff is also less likely to become a meal for a dragon.

Trebuchets are a bit harder to explain, but I’d guess there that it has to do with trebuchets and catapults being easier to build on the spot. Historically, armies often just carried the few metal components such engines needed and built them on the spot using available timber when needed for a siege. The trebuchets in GW2 may have been built on a similar basis – it was simply more practical to build trebuchets than ship cannons in.

(More advanced ammunition might also play a factor: the main advantages of cannons are velocity and portability, but if you have a fixed emplacement and high explosive to fling, these may not be all that important.)

Miss Lana.5276:

SkyShroud.2865:

gw2 is fantasy but doesnt feel that fantasy maybe because other games have set a higher expectations

Or y’know maybe because it’s different to other fantasy games?

Does this mean that Tera isn’t a fantasy game anymore with the introduction of the Gunner class?

Different =/= inferior/superior.

that game with it’s huge weapons and barely clothed women is probably more about inferiority complexes.

SkullProX.7083:

Hello!

Am i the only one who thinks that guns/pistols dont really fit fantasy mmos? Its ok, i dont mind them that much, but it annoys me till that point, that there is no way i could use them, even tho they are op… Because fantasy worlds, magic, monsters, swords, bows etc… And then there are the guns…
Anyone else?:D

Regards.

Don’t worry, I feel the same way.

It makes me feel stupid for using a bow or melee weapon honestly. But w/e.

This is the creators fantasy world right?

So we have magic and gods that actually interact with people, but the idea of combining Sulfur, Charcoal, and Saltpeter and using it to accelerate a projectile through a tube is out of the realm of reasonable?

I’m not a big fan of guns, hate them to be honest, never like the gunner classes in other games. However I find GW2 to be more of a Renaissance period game than a dark ages game. And I’m fine with that.

I take it that the OP never played Final Fantasy. Magic, bows, swords, and guns. In fact, one of the most well known weapons from FF is the Gunblade. In fact, there is atleast two that I know of: One from VIII and one from XIII.
Also, define magic. Everyone defines it differently. My two favorite definitions are “the unknown or the unexplainable,” and “the manipulation of energy.” The first one suggests that what we call “Science” was at one time or another magic. The second suggests that almost everything is magic. With that said, can it really be said that magic and guns can’t mix?

Megalasers and teleportation devices are fine, but I draw the line at pistols, dang it!!

Fantasy encompasses a much broader category than high fantasy or swords and sorcery. Other subgenres like slipstream and magical realism being two examples.

Bugs bunny is fantasy. I Dream of Jeanie is fantasy. Bewitched is fantasy. Mary Poppins is fantasy. The Wizard of Oz is fantasy. In his fantasy series the Amber series, Roger Zelazny introduced guns into the mix, in a pretty cool way.

Not to mention most of these worlds aren’t Earth anyway. Who’s to say what is developed when, on which world?

Sagat.3285:

I think you mean medieval mmos not fantasy.

But then there wouldnt be magic, talking plants, or talking mutant cow-cats. That ride tanks. On wheels. With flaming giant swords. There’s more, but I mean… really now.

Also, “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” From that viewpoint, one could surmise that Asura only kinda sorta maybe know what they’re doing with golemancy.

1) I think you would be hard pressed to argue effectively that guns are OP in GW2.

2) I have more of an issue with the idea that swords, maces, etc are still viable in a setting where machine pistols, assault rifles, grenades, flamethrowers, automated turrets, and the like are commonplace than I would with the existence of guns in a fantasy setting.

I myself really enjoy games that fuse together technology and magic. Final Fantasy is a franchise that does this fantastically and I feel like GW2 has managed it very well in a unique, steampunkish, style.

GW2 is cleary burgeoning early industrial bordering on steam punk technology level, which means simple pistols and rifles are perfectly acceptably, as opposed to GW1’s pre-industrial setting. Anyone who says guns can’t be in fantasy doesn’t really understand what fantasy is.

Miss Lana.5276:

SkyShroud.2865:

gw2 is fantasy but doesnt feel that fantasy maybe because other games have set a higher expectations

Or y’know maybe because it’s different to other fantasy games?

Does this mean that Tera isn’t a fantasy game anymore with the introduction of the Gunner class?

Different =/= inferior/superior.

you are reading it out of context and you mentioned tera which i didnt, you have a thing for tera?

I’m glad Anet did a decent job at balancing guns in this game, in part because projectiles have travel times that aren’t instant

SkyShroud.2865:

Miss Lana.5276:

SkyShroud.2865:

gw2 is fantasy but doesnt feel that fantasy maybe because other games have set a higher expectations

Or y’know maybe because it’s different to other fantasy games?

Does this mean that Tera isn’t a fantasy game anymore with the introduction of the Gunner class?

Different =/= inferior/superior.

you are reading it out of context and you mentioned tera which i didnt, you have a thing for tera?

That comment was not directed towards you. Don’t get your knickers in a twist so easily, sweetheart.