Guild Wars 2

I read a few posts at this forum (and others) about a german article where anet confirm that they’re developing GvG but i can’t find that article.

Anybody know something?

ps: I’m talking about GW1 GvG style.

I dont think so

Colin: Our focus right now is making a game type that is easy to watch and understand. That is one of the things we have accomplished so far and we want to keep that concept. This doesn’t mean we won’t introduce new game types in the future, we are playing around with a lot of game types right now. Some of the game types in GW1 we took them and applied to other areas in GW2 – i.e. WvW, minigames. A lot of GW1 game types are empty right now because we have too many and we don’t want that to happen. We want to support WvW and sPvP even more than we are right now and if we go add another game type it is at the cost of WvW, sPvP, PvE. It is something we have to becareful.

I now what Colin said, that’s why i’m asking.

Yes, It was me posting this.

Source: http://www.buffed.de/Guild-Wars-2-PC-169660/News/Guild-Wars-2-Mike-OBrien-im-Interview-kein-Cantha-keine-Item-Spirale-bleibende-Inhalte-und-WvW-Saison-1086164/

It’s a german article, put paragraph 2 (end of it) in google translate and you get this: “Furthermore, we learned in the interview that guild battles like in Guild Wars 1 is not expected in the near future. However, a development team was tasked with and as soon as their work is bearing fruit, even guild battles will again be part of Guild Wars 2nd.”

It doesn’t mean much, but still. The fact they cater to that. A 20 v 20 deathmatch mess which is/looks fun because it’s rare and takes part in WvW… Oh boy…

Again, Anet… Look at your metrics. Pve population on the rise, WvW on the rise. But pvp will be back in a downfall. Build towards the potential, which is clearly here. I don’t know what more we can say.

When did GvG become 20v20?
GW1 style GvG = 8v8 kill the enemy priest in yours or their guild hall.

Yes, that’s the Gvg we know from Gw1. In WvW Gvg has become a massive number deathmatch.

GvG has to level up from the outdated and ancient gvg that is of gw1. WvWvW GvG 20-20 could work if they get their own instance and side objectives.

alcopaul.2156:

GvG has to level up from the outdated and ancient gvg that is of gw1. WvWvW GvG 20-20 could work if they get their own instance and side objectives.

How is going from a complicated arena 8v8 system with multiple objectives (borrowing elements from deathmatch, ctf, base defense, conquest, etc) on large maps to a 20v20 deathmatch in a circle “leveling up”?

You can call it what you want but Gw1 GvG and the zergmatchs in WvW are two completely beasts that do not share any elements in common. Comparing the two modes is absolutely ridiculous (which is why it’s ridiculous to name the format in GW2 “GvG”)

Errant Venture.9371:

alcopaul.2156:

GvG has to level up from the outdated and ancient gvg that is of gw1. WvWvW GvG 20-20 could work if they get their own instance and side objectives.

How is going from a complicated arena 8v8 system with multiple objectives (borrowing elements from deathmatch, ctf, base defense, conquest, etc) on large maps to a 20v20 deathmatch in a circle “leveling up”?

You can call it what you want but Gw1 GvG and the zergmatchs in WvW are two completely beasts that do not share any elements in common. Comparing the two modes is absolutely ridiculous (which is why it’s ridiculous to name the format in GW2 “GvG”)

its not complicated. what made it complicated is thakittens clunky, not user friendly though there were easy to run fotm gimmick builds such as iway. not fluid. you can’t even dodge. it’s based on the olden concept of trinity. you have to spike to kill. it’s formulaic. you have to perform a certain way to win. usually those who master this becomes the top team. if you look gw1 now, it’s filled with players who have played from when the top koreans and americans left. the skill ceiling aka “wasted time to master” is that high because it is not casual friendly.

wvwvw GvG is promising because it won’t be only death match if they are given their exclusive arena with secondary objectives. it could be zerg fest. but with secondary objectives, it will be played with splits or with tactics.

alcopaul.2156:

Errant Venture.9371:

alcopaul.2156:

GvG has to level up from the outdated and ancient gvg that is of gw1. WvWvW GvG 20-20 could work if they get their own instance and side objectives.

How is going from a complicated arena 8v8 system with multiple objectives (borrowing elements from deathmatch, ctf, base defense, conquest, etc) on large maps to a 20v20 deathmatch in a circle “leveling up”?

You can call it what you want but Gw1 GvG and the zergmatchs in WvW are two completely beasts that do not share any elements in common. Comparing the two modes is absolutely ridiculous (which is why it’s ridiculous to name the format in GW2 “GvG”)

its not complicated. what made it complicated is thakittens clunky, not user friendly though there were easy to run fotm gimmick builds such as iway. not fluid. you can’t even dodge. it’s based on the olden concept of trinity. you have to spike to kill. it’s formulaic. you have to perform a certain way to win. usually those who master this becomes the top team. if you look gw1 now, it’s filled with players who have played from when the top koreans and americans left. the skill ceiling aka “wasted time to master” is that high because it is not casual friendly.

wvwvw GvG is promising because it won’t be only death match if they are given their exclusive arena with secondary objectives. it could be zerg fest. but with secondary objectives, it will be played with splits or with tactics.

IWAY in GvG? Should’ve known better than to have someone from MATH comment on a complex game mode. Stick to 8x fire eles in ID1 mate.

http://www.gw-memorial.net/builds/teams/2005/51/

MATH was playing IWAY in GvG as early as 2005 brah.

You’re prolly a 2007 or later player.

This is actually the best news ever. A reunification of pvpers in this game might still be possible.

It will be GvG.

Also, about the format… I’ve been gaming for three decades now, and my main brackground is fighting games. Thats 1 on 1 round deathmatch, aka duel, aka the purest form of pvp period. No purist will debate it. The appeal of GW2 unofficial gvg as it is practiced, resides in the purity of its execution… an very arcade like and polished combat system permits this. And let me tell you… its a BLAST to play. Closest thing to a duel you’ll feel while running 15 or 20 men. A little side objective here and there is welcome as long as it promotes actual fighting.

This will work, because its fresh and pure as a concept. And i think it will be a good way of filling the pit that separates pvpers in this game.

If they do make it, I sure hope it is not in PvP. It fits much better in the WvW space where there are more options of gear and food choices. PvP is not strategic enough.

They need this with WvW stats.

PvP stats are far to limited, aka boring.

Zerg vs Zerg is not GvG.

Why?

(Message Body length must at least be 15)

style.6173:

PvP is not strategic enough.

l2adapt. PVT wars is boring.

Yaro.3251:

Why?

(Message Body length must at least be 15)

BC GvG is splitting, tactics, burst, avoidance, reaction, etc.

20vs20 is circling in a ball and spamming skills. No offense intended.

GW1 GvG : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2mqkeocrPw

GW2 Zerg vs Zerg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y601EvDD0k

Zumy.6318:

style.6173:

PvP is not strategic enough.

l2adapt. PVT wars is boring.

Yaro.3251:

Why?

(Message Body length must at least be 15)

BC GvG is splitting, tactics, burst, avoidance, reaction, etc.

20vs20 is circling in a ball and spamming skills. No offense intended.

sPvP ATM is circling alone and spamming skills. The whole game is like that.
The ball thing is because of the AoE cap. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see that running in a stack is more effective.
Also stop comparing GW1 GvG to the WvW GvG. The only people that are talking about GW1 here are the GW1 players. Just stop already. If you want that mode, go make your own thread and don’t spam every “WvW GvG” thread on the forums.

So you dont want to discuss. Just people to fulfill your wishes? Ok, I’ll go on the trenches with you.

“GvG nao! Help me get those Guildblobs out of WvW!”

PS: where did I mention GW1? GW1, not even once.

Also please stop spamming everything, e.g. the PAX twitch chat with your GvG thingy. There are things in this game that need to be done more urgently.

As much as I think PvP itself needs more variety, I’m not sure it could ever work with the GW2 combat system.. at least not in the fasion we’re used to. 5v5 would probably be the absolute maximum and even then we’re talking about stand fights(if they can make a flag stand relevant without morale/dp) that will be a mass of particle effects and bunker galore. Essentially we’ll have 25 minute fights that don’t really go anywhere because of bunker builds, a lack of counters for bunkers and a lack of cohesive team play to get something accomplished since gw2 is more about individual play and sustaining one’s self. It won’t be near as interesting to watch with the lack of depth in the game.

BTW, why can’t another “game type” be lumped in with sPvP and not “take away” from it? Isn’t sPvP supposed to be the controlled format that’s isolated from PvE stats, buffs and consumables? Isn’t that what we want to operate from within with competitive PvP in mind?

This game’s aoe and targeting mechanics will never be precise enough to encourage truly skilled play, so I don’t know why they’re bothering with this Esports nonsense.

20vs20 GvG is just a way for casual clickers to feel competitive.

dodge

Zumy.6318:

So you dont want to discuss. Just people to fulfill your wishes? Ok, I’ll go on the trenches with you.

“GvG nao! Help me get those Guildblobs out of WvW!”

PS: where did I mention GW1? GW1, not even once.

The second part wasn’t about you. Sorry if it looks confusing.
And I don’t get your point. You guys are against GW2 GvG being developed for what reason? I don’t see any other game mode ideas being said on the forums that haven’t been posted over and over since launch.

thats funny .. in guildwars 2 alot of gametypes are empty too ^^ yet this game is only a year old ..

Wryog.5073:

Zumy.6318:

So you dont want to discuss. Just people to fulfill your wishes? Ok, I’ll go on the trenches with you.

“GvG nao! Help me get those Guildblobs out of WvW!”

PS: where did I mention GW1? GW1, not even once.

The second part wasn’t about you. Sorry if it looks confusing.
And I don’t get your point. You guys are against GW2 GvG being developed for what reason? I don’t see any other game mode ideas being said on the forums that haven’t been posted over and over since launch.

I am not against it a all. I just would prefer to see other things first.
Your 20vs20 is as out of the WvW concept as my smallscale roaming is. So we should not expect much improvement in our styles too soon.

What made me spam the threads today was this post:

Xom.9264:

Xsorus.2507:

You don’t have to play a Warrior to deal with Rangers, But the Warrior is the easiest method of doing it because the Warrior is incredibly powerful right now.

You are arguing with people that are just not very good at the game. I doubt any of them are even on the top of the leader boards if they were they would know warrior is a powerhouse.

@ all the PvPers that think they are elite

GvGers are on your leader boards killing your dudes. Conquest mode promotes poor play and cheese gimmicks this is clear as you see how low the skill level is of the best pvper when put against the skill level of the best GvGers.

Because it is ridiculous. Good players are good in any gamemode. Bad players can hide better the bigger the group. And as stated, I dont see this gamemode being competitive at all. The transferring of “GvG-Guilds” from server to server to get their games done is destroying matchup- balance week after week and the arrogance some of those people bring into the game is quite annoying. The arrogance of us 5 men roamers sure is too though.

Vamp Rook.7835:

GW1 GvG : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2mqkeocrPw

GW2 Zerg vs Zerg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y601EvDD0k

If you think this reinforces your point – it’s not. If there’s too much happening on the screen too fast for you in WvW GvGs, it doesn’t mean there’s no depth to that.

I could on the same note say that IMO GW1 GvG video above looks extremely bleak, boring and lacking dynamics, but I’m sure there’s much more to it than meets untrained eye. Same with WvW GvG.

Zumy.6318:

Yaro.3251:

Why?

BC GvG is splitting, tactics, burst, avoidance, reaction, etc.

There’s all that in WvW GvG. It is more arcade and fast-paced though. But more to the point,

20vs20 is circling in a ball and spamming skills. No offense intended.

, more to the point, numbers themselves are irrelevant. Although the more guildies are involved in the same battle, the more it is worthy of a “Guild versus Guild” name, I would argue. But that’s more of semantics argument, which is futile.

What does matter is that WvW GvG has evolved as community thing. Lacking game mode support, all we have atm is basic type of team PvP – TDM. It doesn’t mean we won’t like something more complex and requiring heavy multi-tasking on the guild level. It’s just that TDM is what we can do without additional support from the game. What won’t probably work though is sPvP-like side objectives because they distract from actual fights. Strictly IMHO of course.

It also doesn’t mean TDM is a bad mode by itself for GvG.

Simplest? Sure.

Simplistic? Well, it could be a spam-fest for sure, but it is what you as a team make of it.

/edited to fix a couple of typos

I’m just afraid they’ll shift focus from a (wannabe) competitive Pvp to a wanted feature as GvG (WvW definition).

I’m afraid, they’ll listen and implement that. Not because I’d be jealous or something, but I honestly don’t see it work. The charm now is the fact that it’s player run, inside WvW, by WvW-centric guilds. But if they’d pull it out of WvW, make it a stand-alone format, maybe even try to make it competitive and just a plain old deathmatch…. Then I’d think it would fail pretty soon.

There is not one single game that aims for that kind of numbers nor a plain deathmatch. And with good reason. It just isn’t feasible.

However, if they keep it in WvW and make it still connected with WvW as a whole with a little competitive touch then it might work.

I agree that the only PvP in the game shouldn’t be massive and require you to be in a guild. 8 man capture the flag, 2-5 man deathmatch and WvW GvG all sound like they could work but not alone. You shouldn’t develop MMO PvP with a single game mode.

I share your concern butch, but cons of having community-driven thing that interferes with implemented game mode are high. WvWers who don’t GvG think of it as a distraction from “real thing” and partially rightfully so. WvWers who GvG cannot have clean controlled environment because of the WvW nature.

Guys it’s here! The day when even WvW gets more care than PvP.

Gandarel.5091:

Guys it’s here! The day when even WvW gets more care than PvP.

Days*. Actually that’s probably months. I think they’re trying to turn WvW into a competitive game mode now(leagues).

Yaro.3251:

Vamp Rook.7835:

GW1 GvG : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2mqkeocrPw

GW2 Zerg vs Zerg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y601EvDD0k

If you think this reinforces your point – it’s not. If there’s too much happening on the screen too fast for you in WvW GvGs, it doesn’t mean there’s no depth to that.

I could on the same note say that IMO GW1 GvG video above looks extremely bleak, boring and lacking dynamics, but I’m sure there’s much more to it than meets untrained eye. Same with WvW GvG.

I’m sorry but there really, really isn’t anywhere close to the degree of depth and strategy in something like “WvW GvG” as there is in GW1 GvG. The main reason for this is the combat system itself, although there is far more movement and it’s very frenetic(“more arcade” as you said) it’s just not as in-depth as GW1’s and that’s especially obvious in team play. If you had a grasp of what GW1 PvP was all about, granted a lot of players don’t including some ex-GW1 players who didn’t really focus on PvP, you would never try to draw a comparison to anything GW2 offers—player constructed or not. This game was simplified, watered down if you will, to appeal to a broader audience and will never, ever live up to the quality of PvP in it’s predecessor.

Doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try. The sPvP forum is already on fire(maybe ashes and dust at this point) and sPvP itself isn’t interesting/rewarding(as it was already proven with numbers). The PvP part of the game needs anything possible ATM.
You can dodge with “But you just don’t understand the game mode.”, “ur bad l2p”, “WvW/PvE guy, get out!” and similar stuff but it’s not going to get you anywhere.

alcopaul.2156:

GvG has to level up from the outdated and ancient gvg that is of gw1. WvWvW GvG 20-20 could work if they get their own instance and side objectives.

I laughed.

Vamp Rook.7835:

GW2 Zerg vs Zerg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y601EvDD0k

That looks kittening awful.

I’ll say it again. But thinking that 20v20 deathmatch as a standalone gamemode would work, is wishful thinking. I can’t even start to explain this, it’s too obvious. :/

However, there’s room for this as is obvious by the player initiatives and the WvW crowd. But it would only work in WvW and when it is tied in with that. Now lots of the ‘real’ WvW’ers don’t want those GvG’ers to take up a spot in the player limit, thus you need to work around that.

Guilds wanted to be a part of the WvW game since the beginning of the game. Why don’t just ty in GvG in WvW? Let guilds claim a tower/keep and let them upgrade it/defend it to unlock a GvG mode. Or something like that. :p

Wryog.5073:

Doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try. The sPvP forum is already on fire(maybe ashes and dust at this point) and sPvP itself isn’t interesting/rewarding(as it was already proven with numbers). The PvP part of the game needs anything possible ATM.
You can dodge with “But you just don’t understand the game mode.”, “ur bad l2p”, “WvW/PvE guy, get out!” and similar stuff but it’s not going to get you anywhere.

In my opinion it needs a massive overhaul. It needs bunker counters to sway people from turtle builds, more team cohesion to promote team play, more variety to promote different styles of play and a more varied experience, etc. I can foresee more bunker breaker abilities because bunkers are a little ridiculous right now and are low skill cap builds, beyond that.. it’s hard to say what arenanet is willing to address. They’ve already shown the GW1 crowd that the new development team doesn’t understand what made GW1 PvP great… so why should we expect them to bring GW2 PvP up to par? I expect a pretty casual experience when it’s all said and done.

butch.8136:

I’ll say it again. But thinking that 20v20 deathmatch as a standalone gamemode would work, is wishful thinking. I can’t even start to explain this, it’s too obvious. :/

However, there’s room for this as is obvious by the player initiatives and the WvW crowd. But it would only work in WvW and when it is tied in with that. Now lots of the ‘real’ WvW’ers don’t want those GvG’ers to take up a spot in the player limit, thus you need to work around that.

Guilds wanted to be a part of the WvW game since the beginning of the game. Why don’t just ty in GvG in WvW? Let guilds claim a tower/keep and let them upgrade it/defend it to unlock a GvG mode. Or something like that. :p

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/A-real-guild-war-My-WvW-dream/first#post2753887
Like this?
That would actually require more work than simply making a big circle and deathmatch. Making custom arena caps up to 20/team+a checkbox for “WvW gear and balance” is probably easier to do and would be enough for now. After making something as simple as that they should make full game modes like deathmatch arenas and capture the flag.
The game really needs small-scale PvP right now.

^ And it would fail. You can basically put up 10 v 10’s in a custum arena and just fight on beach on nifhel. But nobody does that.

The only way this kind of GvG would work is, if it’s tied in with WvW.

mooty.4560:

Yaro.3251:

Vamp Rook.7835:

GW1 GvG : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2mqkeocrPw

GW2 Zerg vs Zerg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y601EvDD0k

If you think this reinforces your point – it’s not. If there’s too much happening on the screen too fast for you in WvW GvGs, it doesn’t mean there’s no depth to that.

I could on the same note say that IMO GW1 GvG video above looks extremely bleak, boring and lacking dynamics, but I’m sure there’s much more to it than meets untrained eye. Same with WvW GvG.

I’m sorry but there really, really isn’t anywhere close to the degree of depth and strategy in something like “WvW GvG” as there is in GW1 GvG. The main reason for this is the combat system itself, although there is far more movement and it’s very frenetic(“more arcade” as you said) it’s just not as in-depth as GW1’s and that’s especially obvious in team play. If you had a grasp of what GW1 PvP was all about, granted a lot of players don’t including some ex-GW1 players who didn’t really focus on PvP, you would never try to draw a comparison to anything GW2 offers—player constructed or not. This game was simplified, watered down if you will, to appeal to a broader audience and will never, ever live up to the quality of PvP in it’s predecessor.

I wouldn’t argue about that and was newer trying to compare these two since I didn’t play GW1 (couple of hours doesn’t count). Again, WvW GvG is a community-driven thing that was born as an answer to the problems of WvW as seen by considerable amount of dedicated WvW players.

There’s NO argument from WvW GvG crowd that their thing is objectively “better”, is a “successor” or in any other way even slightly related (except a generic name) to GW1 GvG. You are imagining things if you think that this argument exists.

We just do not care what it was in some other game as many of us didn’t even play it. We enjoy this “watered down”, as you’ve put it, combat system that frees you from ancient trinity cage and unholy GCD, and works at your speed, not its own.

butch.8136:

^ And it would fail. You can basically put up 10 v 10’s in a custum arena and just fight on beach on nifhel. But nobody does that.

The only way this kind of GvG would work is, if it’s tied in with WvW.

We want 20v20/15v15. If we wanted 10v10 you’d probably see half the posts about this.
And WvW is exactly where most GvGers don’t want to be. We want the rules of WvW but in an isolated area and without the requirement of being on servers in the same matchup.

ok gw2 “gvgs” are made for casual that spam stuff all the time…….. isnt spvp the same thing but with circles? -_-

But can’t you tie it in with WvW. So that you also mean something for your server? Are there pure GvG guilds?

GvG has come out of the fact that WvW encourages zerg v zerg and there’s no room for small skirmishes. Well, I’d say make room for that but in WvW.

Yaro.3251:

We just do not care what it was in some other game as many of us didn’t even play it. We enjoy this “watered down”, as you’ve put it, combat system that frees you from ancient trinity cage and unholy GCD, and works at your speed, not its own.

I’m pretty sure it still works at it’s own speed and it’s arguable that the trinity was ever a “cage” or not. In fact I’m pretty sure that more dedicated player roles would do wonders to promote team play and keep people interested in GW2 PvP. It’s just a marketing ploy man, you been had.

As for GW1 being “just some other game” you are glazing over the issue that this game is the certified, franchise tag carrying sequel and GW1 is the only measuring stick. Anytime you bring up something as important as “GvG”, even if it’s just in name only, you are willingly bringing the GW1 contrasts into the conversation.

10v10 is a popular from of GvG. 5v5 in conquest mode map is not the same as fighting foes from another server 5v5 with PvE gear stats. PvP stats are far too limited

Ill say it one more time the best people on the leader boards are nothing when put up against the best GvG folks I have faced. Perhaps thats just the nature of conquest mode being 1v1 and top 3v3 fights the majority of the time, there is no real group concept outside of simple focus targeting. Leading to limited group skills and game mechanic understanding of pure PvPers.

Are there any actual top 100 leader board folks here trolling GvG?

Xom.9264:

Ill say it one more time the best people on the leader boards are nothing when put up against the best GvG folks I have faced. Perhaps thats just the nature of conquest mode being 1v1 and top 3v3 fights the majority of the time, there is no real group concept outside of simple focus targeting. Leading to limited group skills and game mechanic understanding of pure PvPers.

Wauw…. Really? o.O O.o O.O

So those 20 people are playing more as a team than a 5man group? There is no focus targeting? So it’s just yolo?

There should be someone who can explain exactly what happens in GvG and how it’s different from normal WvW and how its fights aren’t simply large sPvP battles. Maybe we should have a thread with that and link it every time someone asks "Where’s the complicated/interesting part in “WvW GvG”?".

butch.8136:

Xom.9264:

Ill say it one more time the best people on the leader boards are nothing when put up against the best GvG folks I have faced. Perhaps thats just the nature of conquest mode being 1v1 and top 3v3 fights the majority of the time, there is no real group concept outside of simple focus targeting. Leading to limited group skills and game mechanic understanding of pure PvPers.

Wauw…. Really? o.O O.o O.O

So those 20 people are playing more as a team than a 5man group? There is no focus targeting? So it’s just yolo?

I tend towards the 5-15 range for GvGs but respect the best 20v20s and know them to be of high skill level. Lower population servers GvGs is more in the 5v5 and 10v10 range, I get that the 20v20 is not for everyone that includes me.

I used to think WvW was full of easy kills…. and it is but the population is so much higher then PvP when you dig deeper you find a massive community of elite GvGs constantly doing 5v5s deathmatch and up.

When I decided to get top 100 on the leader boards I expect to fight players of great skill level what I seen was spammers constantly making mistakes or just running cheese builds poorly. Total let down, the skill level and quality of the GvGers is much higher then the PvP conquest mode community.

What can you possible say? Have you faced the best GvGers and also faced the best PvPers top 100?

I have and I just laid down a truthful reality check on the PvP community.

But if what you want is 5v5 just go custom arena. You can avoid the points. And really, you want Pve gear? You want those added bonusses from WvWxp? Runes of perplexity?

In pvp everyone is on the same level gear-wise.

Define best PvP’er and best GvG’er? You can’t compare it because it are two different things.