Guild Wars 2

Xom.9264:

I have and I just laid down a truthful reality check on the PvP community.

Well no, not really.

Most people want runes of perplexity to get nerfed actually. Also we usually don’t use stacking sigils/guard stacks.

butch.8136:

Define best PvP’er and best GvG’er? You can’t compare it because it are two different things.

They are two game modes I agree, one is about holding points and taking points with a secondary goal of killing targets.

The other is about wiping the other team, you see more team work with use of blast finishers true team combos with CC burst peeling etc…. and a wide range of build options for each class due to PvE stats.

I have been shocked at how…. average the top 100 PvP players are. Skill use mistakes random dodging, poor control of class things I just dont see when at the WindMill in WvW fighting the best from each server. This is because WvW has a constant influx of players and out of those players some decide to improve individual skills leading to more good players to fight.

PvP on the other hand has a small population pool and its getting smaller everyday the pool of players that do PvP as a main focus is likely only a few hundred tops. The best GvG is coming from a pool of players much larger.

GW2 has been accepted by the MMO community its a good game…. however conquest PvP with limited stat choices has been totally rejected. Its failed massive fail that can not be debated, GvG matches are drawing views on par with Anets PAX crap…. Whats scary is GvG is a new thing its just getting started.

No one is really asking for anything we just dont want Orbs to kill GvG considering its close to passing PvP in popularity.

If you don’t have much experience in playing the large battles found in WvWvW, you won’t understand GvG videos from WvWvW. There is a fog of war that only experience allows you to pierce through and break down what’s going on, what to do, and how it’s being done.

etiolate.9185:

If you don’t have much experience in playing the large battles found in WvWvW, you won’t understand GvG videos from WvWvW. There is a fog of war that only experience allows you to pierce through and break down what’s going on, what to do, and how it’s being done.

The sarcasm is so good it’s hurting me as I laugh.

mooty.4560:

Yaro.3251:

We just do not care what it was in some other game as many of us didn’t even play it. We enjoy this “watered down”, as you’ve put it, combat system that frees you from ancient trinity cage and unholy GCD, and works at your speed, not its own.

I’m pretty sure it still works at it’s own speed and it’s arguable that the trinity was ever a “cage” or not. In fact I’m pretty sure that more dedicated player roles would do wonders to promote team play and keep people interested in GW2 PvP. It’s just a marketing ploy man, you been had.

As for GW1 being “just some other game” you are glazing over the issue that this game is the certified, franchise tag carrying sequel and GW1 is the only measuring stick. Anytime you bring up something as important as “GvG”, even if it’s just in name only, you are willingly bringing the GW1 contrasts into the conversation.

I never asserted you didn’t have a point. What I was trying to say is that it is subjective. Like trinity [not] being a cage or dedicated roles promoting skill and teamplay.

I’m not glazing over anything, the point is, I personally (and those who didn’t play GW1) just do not accept this “measuring stick” as something meaningful. All this “certified, franchise tag carrying sequel” talk doesn’t hold water for me either.

alcopaul.2156:

Errant Venture.9371:

alcopaul.2156:

GvG has to level up from the outdated and ancient gvg that is of gw1. WvWvW GvG 20-20 could work if they get their own instance and side objectives.

How is going from a complicated arena 8v8 system with multiple objectives (borrowing elements from deathmatch, ctf, base defense, conquest, etc) on large maps to a 20v20 deathmatch in a circle “leveling up”?

You can call it what you want but Gw1 GvG and the zergmatchs in WvW are two completely beasts that do not share any elements in common. Comparing the two modes is absolutely ridiculous (which is why it’s ridiculous to name the format in GW2 “GvG”)

its not complicated. what made it complicated is thakittens clunky, not user friendly though there were easy to run fotm gimmick builds such as iway. not fluid. you can’t even dodge. it’s based on the olden concept of trinity. you have to spike to kill. it’s formulaic. you have to perform a certain way to win. usually those who master this becomes the top team. if you look gw1 now, it’s filled with players who have played from when the top koreans and americans left. the skill ceiling aka “wasted time to master” is that high because it is not casual friendly.

wvwvw GvG is promising because it won’t be only death match if they are given their exclusive arena with secondary objectives. it could be zerg fest. but with secondary objectives, it will be played with splits or with tactics.

They can’t even get enough people to participate in a 5v5 tournament arena to have a healthy community, what makes you think they can get 40 people at any point in time to justify a zerg vs zerg arena? That arena sounds destined to die an early death. Players had trouble acquiring 8 people to put together a GvG team, I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to put together a 20 man team, let alone how unlikely it is that you would have an opponent. An arena like that would essentially be dead for half of the day the moment it launched because outside of NA or EU prime time the numbers drop off dramatically. There is already an arena in the game that allows zergs to fight each other, it’s called WvW.

The only way I can see GvG returning in GW2 is if it’s done in the spirit of GW1’ GvG – smaller teams (5-10) with an invade/defend objective. The Legacy of the Foefire map just doesn’t go far enough. Real GvG has nothing to do with zerging. Best case scenario for Zerg Vs Zerg support coming to GW2 is some kind of in-game leaderboards, an actual arena (designed for 20 man teams) sounds like a disaster.

Let’s not forget, the devs aren’t able to balance the game for sPvP, WvW and PvE even with skill splits. There’s no way they could do it with a 20vs20 arena as well.

Shiren.9532:

They can’t even get enough people to participate in a 5v5 tournament arena to have a healthy community, what makes you think they can get 40 people at any point in time to justify a zerg vs zerg arena?

First 20v20 is a thing the community is doing it. Its drawing views on part with that conquest mode crap. Second, GvG community does not want PvP the stats are boring build options are limited. Third we are worried Orbs server wide buff will ruin our game mode a game mode with a fan base just as high as PvP and its just getting started.

Simple we just dont want Anet to kitten up GvGs with server wide stat buffs. Just give a little zone tied to WvW with no stat boost that guilds can walk into have a GvG then go back to WvW. Win win the community continues to grow and have fun everyone is happy, except of course the PvPers still trying to make conquest mode a thing lol.

I hope they make both 20v20 and 5v5/8v8 to appeal both sides of the pvp community. Anything new at this point will benefit the state of pvp

Vence.6974:

I hope they make both 20v20 and 5v5/8v8 to appeal both sides of the pvp community. Anything new at this point will benefit the state of pvp

Agreed. PvP needs more people. GvG and Conquest people don’t need to fight. A pvp population increase will help their causes. Putting in new things that draw people will increase pvp population.

So many spvpers here trying to say how much more skilled they are than wvwers lol. I’m a hardcore wvw’er and only some to spvp when I need a break. I decided to do some solo queue a few days ago. While I sadly didn’t make it to top 100 like Xom did, I have been maintaining ~rank 300 playing only what is quite possibly the weakest build in the game right now (glass d/d ele).

This imagined skill superiority just doesn’t exist. I’ve been getting matched up against top 100s all the time, and it’s no harder than fighting top wvwers.

Well that’s true. That’s because the individual skill cap is rather low, just as it is in WvW because we’re all playing the same classes and the same functionality.

It is hard to carry and to show true skill. That’s why the leaderboards are useless especially tied in with the skewed matchmaking.

I’m actually not a huge fan of GvG in this game, just like SPvP I think its incredibly kittenty to watch because its 20vs20 cluster kitten…

DAOC still had it right with 8v8, Just enough to make the actual person matter in the fight.

There’s no reason GvG has to be 20v20. It’s ended up there because most of the guilds doing it are transitioning from zerging/zerg fighting and simply don’t know what smaller scale fighting is like. I think if these people played 5v5/10v10 enough to acclimate they’d prefer it, because ya, 20v20 is pretty lame.

Soloque is broken being in the top 100 means literally nothing, LESS then nothing most of the time, especially with under 50 games.

I don’t expect you to know this as you’re new to pvp and have 0 idea of how broken things are.

Do you want to scrim an actual team?

10vs10 Would be fine I think, but I’ve watched a few 20vs20 fights and its just awful… just god awful..

Why do we have WvW threads in the sPvP forum?

Darnis.4056:

Soloque is broken being in the top 100 means literally nothing, LESS then nothing most of the time, especially with under 50 games.

I don’t expect you to know this as you’re new to pvp and have 0 idea of how broken things are.

Do you want to scrim an actual team?

I have over 50 games my start was loses 4v5s I climbed against the best players in PvP I know the names I faced them.

You want to deathmatch 10v10 an actual guild? Dont ego taunt us, you wont like the results. Most Tpvp teams farmed pugs and solo players, heck solo playing I got 200 or so on Tpvp it was teams farming pugs and the pugs still won plenty of times.

You want to insult solo queue…. naw if individual skill is there all your team would be top 200 solo queue I see plenty of the big names in the top 200.

P.S. 300 rating on a ele in this meta is about = to top 10 lol.

errant.9843:

Why do we have WvW threads in the sPvP forum?

How is this a WvW thread?

You dodged :/
Scrim ?

WTF? Why mods move my post to WvW forum? I said that i was talking about GW1 GvG, no Zerg vs Zerg.

Darnis.4056:

You dodged :/
Scrim ?

Dodge? Two games modes with massive stat and builds gaps.

Deathmatch 8v8 our game mode your limited stats?

Or just bring your 5 to WvW we will GvG you.

You make toxic pve lobby posts in the pvp forum and wonder why it gets moved?

Thank god, it took 2 pages of hate before it got moved.

You dodged again, 5v5 scrim ?

You’re the one who said “the skill difference is non existant”

Why is it that it’s always the “WvW GvG” guys that get challenged to do sPvP? Why don’t the sPvP guys try to do GvG?

We don’t come into your forums and make kitten posts that’s why.

Riiiight, because ideas and suggestions are bad and that has a lot to do with people getting challenged.
Also it’s usually the sPvP guys that start explaining how unskilled that is and how it’s an insult to GW1.

Good day sir

Darnis.4056:

You dodged again, 5v5 scrim ?

You’re the one who said “the skill difference is non existant”

If anyone cared about conquest mode a GvGer could not get top 100 not even trying. Deathmatch is our game mode, we are purists.

conquest you win guild does not do it
deathmatch we win

You are just mad I headshotted your PvE kid argument in the other thread with my pick of 67th rating.

As a PvPer on the leaderboards I think Ill just keep posting and you are going to have to deal with me saying GvG players are of higher skill level, until you make a GvG guild and climb our leader boards.

Shiren.9532:

alcopaul.2156:

Errant Venture.9371:

alcopaul.2156:

GvG has to level up from the outdated and ancient gvg that is of gw1. WvWvW GvG 20-20 could work if they get their own instance and side objectives.

How is going from a complicated arena 8v8 system with multiple objectives (borrowing elements from deathmatch, ctf, base defense, conquest, etc) on large maps to a 20v20 deathmatch in a circle “leveling up”?

You can call it what you want but Gw1 GvG and the zergmatchs in WvW are two completely beasts that do not share any elements in common. Comparing the two modes is absolutely ridiculous (which is why it’s ridiculous to name the format in GW2 “GvG”)

its not complicated. what made it complicated is thakittens clunky, not user friendly though there were easy to run fotm gimmick builds such as iway. not fluid. you can’t even dodge. it’s based on the olden concept of trinity. you have to spike to kill. it’s formulaic. you have to perform a certain way to win. usually those who master this becomes the top team. if you look gw1 now, it’s filled with players who have played from when the top koreans and americans left. the skill ceiling aka “wasted time to master” is that high because it is not casual friendly.

wvwvw GvG is promising because it won’t be only death match if they are given their exclusive arena with secondary objectives. it could be zerg fest. but with secondary objectives, it will be played with splits or with tactics.

They can’t even get enough people to participate in a 5v5 tournament arena to have a healthy community, what makes you think they can get 40 people at any point in time to justify a zerg vs zerg arena? That arena sounds destined to die an early death. Players had trouble acquiring 8 people to put together a GvG team, I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to put together a 20 man team, let alone how unlikely it is that you would have an opponent. An arena like that would essentially be dead for half of the day the moment it launched because outside of NA or EU prime time the numbers drop off dramatically. There is already an arena in the game that allows zergs to fight each other, it’s called WvW.

The only way I can see GvG returning in GW2 is if it’s done in the spirit of GW1’ GvG – smaller teams (5-10) with an invade/defend objective. The Legacy of the Foefire map just doesn’t go far enough. Real GvG has nothing to do with zerging. Best case scenario for Zerg Vs Zerg support coming to GW2 is some kind of in-game leaderboards, an actual arena (designed for 20 man teams) sounds like a disaster.

Let’s not forget, the devs aren’t able to balance the game for sPvP, WvW and PvE even with skill splits. There’s no way they could do it with a 20vs20 arena as well.

WvWvW GvG is an active subculture of the game and there is a third party that tracks the matches among guilds.

http://gw2gvg.com/leaderboard.php?r=na

the current problem of this GvG is that they can only face their current WvWvW matchups. but with a global dedicated instance, these GvG guilds could coalesce and have it in a solid competitive ground. the drama involved in this too is very interesting. Who’s the best GvG guild there is and what not. The more massive, the more fun. A.NET can maintain their E-Sport ambitions on conquest. But this WvWvW GvG is player based, community driven area of the game. A.NET should consider this, have their own instance and a separate guild ladder, since community driven activities are the most likely to become more popular and successful.

When a lot of people (compared to sPvP) ask for a game mode in an MMO with 0 rewards for it, you just know that that mode is good.

Yaro.3251:

I’m not glazing over anything, the point is, I personally (and those who didn’t play GW1) just do not accept this “measuring stick” as something meaningful. All this “certified, franchise tag carrying sequel” talk doesn’t hold water for me either.

Well sure, there’s a certain ignorance there but that’s why I’m trying to make you understand why bringing up GvG at all is going to immediatly warrant GW1 comparisons. You can spit in the face of GW1 fans all you want but it won’t change anything.

Good job to the moderator who moved the thread to this sub forum. Expect an uproar for your mistake.

Ppl still associates WvW “GvG” with Gw1 “GvG” and use it as argument?

I don’t know which one Anet has hinted working towards to. I’d hope both kind.

The issue is:
WvW GvG is simply a deathmatch(another mode that could be added as whole), with large groups. Large groups brings on the table mechanics that on smaller scale simply doesn’t exists – like the ability to regroup, move compact, combo healing/buffs, bombing an area of the ground with well placed stun/CC/dmg and such – so can’t really compare to making a spvp-like arena 8vs8 maximum with deathmatch.

Gw1 GvG has surely more depth (you know, it’s made by devs while WvW GvG is made by guilds without any game/dev support), and it do have the perks to become that esport Anet is so much hunting for. But with the Gw2 (current) classes and combat system might be hard, even impossible, to port from Gw1 decently. Not really a balance issue, more a structural one – no real healing/prot classes, thus less need for all the baiting of Gw1 (to overextend a foe, to make monks run out of energy, to spike in 5 ppl the same target in 1/4 of sec), thus less tactical, thus too much fast-paced.

But get this in your head when talking about GvG: WvW GvG never pretended to take over or be the replacement of Gw1 one. It simply is the best possible guilds could come up with in Gw2 without the slighest help from Anet, which ignored them for a year or more. And they did in wvw cause spvp is only conquest (with idiotic cap points in the way).

Many P2W games have GvG and you can even jump which is kind of fun.

They said that they know that people organize their own fights in WvW and that they’re discussing it or something like that.
It’s probably about both the GvG and duels being organized in WvW.
I also agree with having 8v8 GW1 style GvG. This game needs more PvP modes. Just no rushing anything to being competitive and everything should be fine.

Wryog.5073:

When a lot of people (compared to sPvP) ask for a game mode in an MMO with 0 rewards for it, you just know that that mode is good.

How frequently are there GvG’s? I don’t see many on the ‘upcoming GvG’ part.
It’s rare and that makes it special and fun. But if it’d become a full fleshed out gamemode outside of WvW, expect it to burn out soon. Reasons being it very demanding on player count (name me one game with such high player requirements that’s somewhat competitive) and deathmatch.

style.6173:

If they do make it, I sure hope it is not in PvP. It fits much better in the WvW space where there are more options of gear and food choices. PvP is not strategic enough.

haha yes it is…. all the same builds you make in WvW you can make in SPvP. they just dont have the way too high stats. You know, actually having to make important build choices and picking and choosing what to be good at.

Though I guess that isnt strategic enough for 2 groups of 20 players to just train into each other and spam skills.

ENORMOUS EYE ROLL

Yes, you’re right about how rare GvGs are. That’s because the matchups limit us.
And I still haven’t seen a single suggestion about GvG mentioning rewards.

CrassBippy.4619:

style.6173:

If they do make it, I sure hope it is not in PvP. It fits much better in the WvW space where there are more options of gear and food choices. PvP is not strategic enough.

haha yes it is…. all the same builds you make in WvW you can make in SPvP. they just dont have the way too high stats. You know, actually having to make important build choices and picking and choosing what to be good at.

Though I guess that isnt strategic enough for 2 groups of 20 players to just train into each other and spam skills.

ENORMOUS EYE ROLL

You have absolutely no idea how limited sPvP is, do you? What if I want 3 pieces of carrion, 2 pieces zerk and the rest soldier?(random gear BTW, don’t take it seriously) What about the food buffs, balance differences(there’s one trait that makes the difference between day and night for staff eles for example) and the forced transformation of crit damage on all amulets into a defensive stat? Knight gear in PvE is also T/p/p, not V/p/p. Valk also has switched toughness for vitality and the healing is crit damage.
Have you ever gone out of sPvP to at least look at the level 80 gear?

Do you really think it would be a solid gamemode?

You get 15 to 20 people together how many times? And yes there are probably some hardcore guilds out there that can have these numbers throughout the day.

Anyway, good luck on those queues.

Pvp had his bit of rage today on the forums. I’m afraid the 17th of sept will be yours as I don’t have high hopes for Bloodlust not affecting the overall stats and thus messing up the GvG scene.

butch.8136:

Do you really think it would be a solid gamemode?

You get 15 to 20 people together how many times? And yes there are probably some hardcore guilds out there that can have these numbers throughout the day.

Anyway, good luck on those queues.

Pvp had his bit of rage today on the forums. I’m afraid the 17th of sept will be yours as I don’t have high hopes for Bloodlust not affecting the overall stats and thus messing up the GvG scene.

That’s why you never make a game with only 1 PvP mode! Most people will get bored no matter what it is.

dreztina.4820:

There’s no reason GvG has to be 20v20. It’s ended up there because most of the guilds doing it are transitioning from zerging/zerg fighting and simply don’t know what smaller scale fighting is like. I think if these people played 5v5/10v10 enough to acclimate they’d prefer it, because ya, 20v20 is pretty lame.

The GW2 version of GvG emerged from WvW guilds wanting balanced and interesting fights, rather than simply zerging. However, the reason they are in WvW in the first place is because they enjoy large-scale combat.

The reason 20v20 has emerged as the “standard” is because it’s just about the most players you can have in a fight while still retaining a certain amount of control of the flow of battle, and individual positioning and timing being important. We want to have as many players included as possible in our fights, because sitting on the side-lines watching isn’t fun. However, once you take it to 25v25 or larger, the limitations of the game become too apparent and it does become a bit of a cluster-kitten. Despite what some will say, 20v20 is not a cluster-kitten, it’s not just skill spamming. Just because it’s harder to see on youtube than the skill in sPvP, doesn’t mean it’s not there. It just means you have to have a certain level of experience to see it.

A single player can have a significant impact on the outcome of a match, and the team that moves and co-ordinates better consistently wins. That isn’t attributable to luck.

15v15/20v20 aren’t the most common format because WvW guilds are scared of doing anything smaller. They’re common because we want to involve as many people as possible, but bringing in more than 20 just causes too many problems, both in terms of leadership/organisation, and game mechanics.

oZii.2864:

I saw this in the sPvP forums I am surprised it isn’t here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/GvG-Confirmed

Original article is in German posted yesterday.

http://www.buffed.de/Guild-Wars-2-PC-169660/News/Guild-Wars-2-Mike-OBrien-im-Interview-kein-Cantha-keine-Item-Spirale-bleibende-Inhalte-und-WvW-Saison-1086164/

Translation via Google Translator end of second paragraph.

Furthermore, we learned in the interview that guild battles like in Guild Wars 1 is not expected in the near future. However, a development team was tasked with and as soon as their work is bearing fruit, even guild battles will again be part of Guild Wars 2nd

Found it!
Edit: I was stupid enough to skip the post where this was already linked. Sorry!

Wryog.5073:

CrassBippy.4619:

style.6173:

If they do make it, I sure hope it is not in PvP. It fits much better in the WvW space where there are more options of gear and food choices. PvP is not strategic enough.

haha yes it is…. all the same builds you make in WvW you can make in SPvP. they just dont have the way too high stats. You know, actually having to make important build choices and picking and choosing what to be good at.

Though I guess that isnt strategic enough for 2 groups of 20 players to just train into each other and spam skills.

ENORMOUS EYE ROLL

You have absolutely no idea how limited sPvP is, do you? What if I want 3 pieces of carrion, 2 pieces zerk and the rest soldier?(random gear BTW, don’t take it seriously) What about the food buffs, balance differences(there’s one trait that makes the difference between day and night for staff eles for example) and the forced transformation of crit damage on all amulets into a defensive stat? Knight gear in PvE is also T/p/p, not V/p/p. Valk also has switched toughness for vitality and the healing is crit damage.
Have you ever gone out of sPvP to at least look at the level 80 gear?

i WvW… thats mostly all I do. WvW is an unbalanced mess because of the things you listed, food buffs, higher stats and dmg, now ascended weps will add even more. It is in no way a true balanced test of skill.

especially if its 20v20. Might be fun, but its just a trainwreck. and itll never catch on as something that people would even enjoy watching.

take this for example, how is this engaging? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RF-NPKmWI4

just people running in a conga line spamming skills.

I think that limiting everyone to exotic gear(probably doable) is absolutely fine. Most of the GvGers I’ve met don’t like ascended at all.

butch.8136:

Wryog.5073:

When a lot of people (compared to sPvP) ask for a game mode in an MMO with 0 rewards for it, you just know that that mode is good.

How frequently are there GvG’s? I don’t see many on the ‘upcoming GvG’ part.
It’s rare and that makes it special and fun.

This week is quite a slow one GvG-wise.

Wryog.5073:

I think that limiting everyone to exotic gear(probably doable) is absolutely fine. Most of the GvGers I’ve met don’t like ascended at all.

thats what i wished they would have done from the start. make all ascneded go down to exotic stats when entering WvW. at least keep things sorta ok stat wise. but meh, lets keep climbing

IF Anet decide to make GvG’s I do hope they ask someone like Sacrx for ADVICE before they do something stupid that turn into a MASSIVE fail.

please talk with someone doing GvG everyday for advice. or its gonna be massive fail massive.

CrassBippy.4619:

Wryog.5073:

CrassBippy.4619:

style.6173:

If they do make it, I sure hope it is not in PvP. It fits much better in the WvW space where there are more options of gear and food choices. PvP is not strategic enough.

haha yes it is…. all the same builds you make in WvW you can make in SPvP. they just dont have the way too high stats. You know, actually having to make important build choices and picking and choosing what to be good at.

Though I guess that isnt strategic enough for 2 groups of 20 players to just train into each other and spam skills.

ENORMOUS EYE ROLL

You have absolutely no idea how limited sPvP is, do you? What if I want 3 pieces of carrion, 2 pieces zerk and the rest soldier?(random gear BTW, don’t take it seriously) What about the food buffs, balance differences(there’s one trait that makes the difference between day and night for staff eles for example) and the forced transformation of crit damage on all amulets into a defensive stat? Knight gear in PvE is also T/p/p, not V/p/p. Valk also has switched toughness for vitality and the healing is crit damage.
Have you ever gone out of sPvP to at least look at the level 80 gear?

i WvW… thats mostly all I do. WvW is an unbalanced mess because of the things you listed, food buffs, higher stats and dmg, now ascended weps will add even more. It is in no way a true balanced test of skill.

especially if its 20v20. Might be fun, but its just a trainwreck. and itll never catch on as something that people would even enjoy watching.

take this for example, how is this engaging? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RF-NPKmWI4

just people running in a conga line spamming skills.

funny you say this, cause 1200 ppl just watched scnd vs seven last week. Most of the time its around 200-400ppl watching the GvG’s. Around 200 or so on twitch and 100 or so maybe more standing around the Live event.

SO your theory of noone will watch, is false.

About gear, yes i think it should be exo gear only, and let us pick r runes and food cause that gives us each r own strats/builds