Gw 1, a big skill grind...
Heck, when you beat each GW1 campaign it gave you a max stat weapon of your choice lol. And you could use it on any character because it wasn’t soulbound. Or account bound, so you could even sell it for cash and use the money to buy multiple max stat super-common skin weapons to have more than one item with different stats.
(edited by Enokitake.1742)
You can with ascended gear in WvW though. Like said, its not the same.
You are shifting the goalposts.
Also, it was not possible to ever get rank 10 luxon or kurzick or deldrimor or norn or asura or ebon vanguard or lightbringer, etc, etc, through casual play, let alone quickly.
Now that’s just silly talk. I remember maxing Norn/Asura/Ebon. For one thing, while it did take several months to do, I still used all of those skills while playing the game with my friends or soloing. I never once sat down at my comp with the purpose to grind out those title tracks through vanguishing or whatever. They just accumulated naturally. And the maxed out skills were only nominally better than the skills at the halfway mark. You could notice a difference if you concentrated on it, but it was subtle.
I was one of the easiest and mildest grinds in a game I’ve ever played. Now if you’re one of those people that are hell-bent on maxing everything as fast as you can…then yes, it’s very grindy. I remember seeing those players around, endlessly vanguishing areas day after day to get there. I just felt sorry for them. And if you think you absolutely need the max rank for elite areas…perhaps you’re just a tad to zealous and impatient about running those areas fast.
There was small crowd of elitists who would demand certain skills be maxed before they would include you in their runs, but they weren’t the majority. I usually would just roll my eyes at them and enjoy the runs taking longer with pugs.
Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care
I troll because I care
In GW1 I played the first 2.5 years after release. I have no idea what you are talking about, must have come later.
Unless you are talking about elite capping, which wasn’t a grind at all.
They are talking about skills like the Kurzick, Dwarven or Light bringer skills which when you had higher ranks in in the title they got slightly more powerful . of course what they dont say is that it was a joke to level those titles . The only things you could really call a grind in GW 1 were things like Frog Scepter farming for obby armor or the VSF farm
Rose tinted glasses.
You forgot that farming is not the only way to gain allegiance title points? You can also get lots of allegiance title points by simply playing the game.
You are absolutely correct.
You can also earn ascended gear by simply playing the game in GW2. I listed the farming method because it’s the most efficient way. Doing other things (i.e Alliance Battles and JQ/FA were really inefficient in getting faction) would of course earn you faction, but it will take you much longer.
Just like in GW2, if you don’t want to grind dungeons or champ trains all day, you can slowly earn yourself an ascended weapon. Or two. I’m going to use myself as an example. Never do Champ trains, never grinded dungeons, and have 3 characters full of ascended gear.
Whatever you want to say about GW1’s grind, you can easily apply to GW2.
What you guys tend to forget while trying to defend GW2’s grind, is that there is different kind of grind, and not always is bad.
You misunderstand me.
I don’t defend GW2’s grind. I don’t like it, I don’t participate in it.
It’s a pertinent point though, that people’s preference for GW1’s gameplay definitely colors their perception of GW1’s grind. Prefer GW1’s grind? I don’t argue that, that is a highly subjective topic.
But to say GW1 had NO grind? (Which people in this thread are claiming). No, that is definitely wrong.
In essence, after you have completed the game you have, or at least be able to afford, all required pieces of max stat gear. If you love grinding, you always have that option of grinding for cosmetic gear and titles but you don’t have to. This has always been the case for GW1.
“Completing the game” gave you nowhere NEAR the faction required for the statistical max. Using Kurzick again for example, (1,200,000)
Turning in Shiro’s Return gave you 40,000 in normal mode, 120,000 in hard mode. The quests individually gave around ~500 faction, and there were around maybe ~20 to 30 quests (~10,000-15,000). Alliance battles average around 5000 factions per game. JQ/FA averages around 2000-3000 factions per game. Urgoz’s gives 5000 in normal, 10,000 in hard mode.
Do all that, and you are still nowhere NEAR the 1,200,000 required for the maximum statistical rank (r6).
You will end up having to repeat some content in order to get to the statistical maximum. And repeating content is something I define as a grind. A grind to earn statistical power increases.
Rose tinted glasses.
Out of arguments already?
You can with ascended gear in WvW though. Like said, its not the same.
You are shifting the goalposts.
Also, it was not possible to ever get rank 10 luxon or kurzick or deldrimor or norn or asura or ebon vanguard or lightbringer, etc, etc, through casual play, let alone quickly.
Now that’s just silly talk. I remember maxing Norn/Asura/Ebon.
I mean, to get to rank 10 required you doing hardmode vanquishes, or turning in hard mode Heroes/Dungeon guides since they don’t accept normal mode stuff beyond r8.
If you’re doing HM, I don’t consider you a casual player.
Rose tinted glasses.
Out of arguments already?
Not an argument, it’s a statement, and it’s my first post in this thread.
“Completing the game” gave you nowhere NEAR the faction required for the statistical max. Using Kurzick again for example, (1,200,000)
Turning in Shiro’s Return gave you 40,000 in normal mode, 120,000 in hard mode. The quests individually gave around ~500 faction, and there were around maybe ~20 to 30 quests (~10,000-15,000). Alliance battles average around 5000 factions per game. JQ/FA averages around 2000-3000 factions per game. Urgoz’s gives 5000 in normal, 10,000 in hard mode.
Do all that, and you are still nowhere NEAR the 1,200,000 required for the maximum statistical rank (r6).
You will end up having to repeat some content in order to get to the statistical maximum. And repeating content is something I define as a grind. A grind to earn statistical power increases.
Your estimate of 500 factions/quest is way too low. Many quests give an average of 750 and some even more than 1000. I suggest you look into the wiki to get more accurate numbers for your estimates:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kurzick_Faction
You are also forgetting that Faction spent in kurzick bureaucrat or its luxon equivalent grants you double title points for each faction when donating to your guild or buying their PvE skills.
Furthermore, almost all players have more than one character and since kurz/luxon titles are account-wide, you can perform the same quests/missions etc. all over again. This is not a grind either because you need to complete the game for each character in either case, even in GW2.
(edited by DarkSpirit.7046)
In essence, after you have completed the game you have, or at least be able to afford, all required pieces of max stat gear. If you love grinding, you always have that option of grinding for cosmetic gear and titles but you don’t have to. This has always been the case for GW1.
“Completing the game” gave you nowhere NEAR the faction required for the statistical max. Using Kurzick again for example, (1,200,000)
Turning in Shiro’s Return gave you 40,000 in normal mode, 120,000 in hard mode. The quests individually gave around ~500 faction, and there were around maybe ~20 to 30 quests (~10,000-15,000). Alliance battles average around 5000 factions per game. JQ/FA averages around 2000-3000 factions per game. Urgoz’s gives 5000 in normal, 10,000 in hard mode.
Do all that, and you are still nowhere NEAR the 1,200,000 required for the maximum statistical rank (r6).
You will end up having to repeat some content in order to get to the statistical maximum. And repeating content is something I define as a grind. A grind to earn statistical power increases.
Apples and Oranges.
He’s talking about armor/weapons. You’re talking about titles. Of course it didn’t give you maximum efficient titles. But you didn’t need the maximum efficient titles to do any casual thing.
And it didn’t effect Alliance Battle or competitive mission, which was the maximum PvE and PVP intersected, like WvW. Ascended gear DOES, and that’s the big difference.
But you’d have more than enough gold at the end of GW1 to have a max stat gold armor set, and it gave you a max stat green weapon. Did you even have an exotic max stat weapon at the end of GW2 personal story? No, you got a rare. Did you have exotic armor? Not unless you saved all your karma throughout the story and bought it at a temple or crafted it.
(edited by Enokitake.1742)
Rose tinted glasses.
Out of arguments already?
Not an argument, it’s a statement, and it’s my first post in this thread.
Wich adds nothing to the discussion, ok i can move on.
Your estimate of 500 factions/quest is way too low. Many quests give an average of 750 and some even more than 1000. I suggest you look into the wiki to get more accurate numbers for your estimates:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kurzick_Faction
You are also forgetting that Faction spent in kurzick bureaucrat or its luxon equivalent grants you double title points for each faction when donating to your guild or buying their PvE skills.
Furthermore, almost all people have more than one character and since kurz/luxon titles are account-wide, you can perform the same quests/missions etc. all over again. This is not a grind either because you need to complete the game for each character in either case, even in GW2.
30 quests for 1000 factions each is still 30,000.
Seriously though, doing everything in GW1 Factions-related ended up with me at r3 Kurzick. I grinded out the rest to r6.
Just doing the math.
30,000 from quests
5000 points from one AB
3000 points from one JQ
15,000 points from Urgoz’s, both normal/hard.
42,000 from vanquishing (7 maps, around 300 creatures each, 20 factions per kill.)
Add all this up, multiply it by 2, and it’s 175,600 title track points. Add in Shrio’s Return and Young Heroes of Tyria if you wish, for 210,000 more title points, and that’s still barely enough for r3. Where is the rest of the million title points coming from?
How are you achieving r6 by doing everything once? This statement defies my personal experience as well as this back-of-the-envelope calculations. No, there was definitely a repetition of content for power levels.
Apples and Oranges.
He’s talking about armor/weapons. You’re talking about titles. Of course it didn’t give you maximum efficient titles. But you didn’t need the maximum efficient titles to do any casual thing.
Stats are stats, whether they come from gear or titles.
I didn’t need exotics to do GW2 also. Heck, I farmed my Arah set in blues and greens. I’m pretty sure no one needs exotics to do casual things like World Bosses. There is no difference.
(edited by Ursan.7846)
Rose tinted glasses.
Out of arguments already?
Not an argument, it’s a statement, and it’s my first post in this thread.
Wich adds nothing to the discussion, ok i can move on.
GW1 had grind, rose tinted glasses make you believe it didn’t. The discussion is over perceived grind vs real grind. Do you have anything to add that isn’t opinion based? Just because YOU didn’t feel like something was a grind doesn’t mean it’s not grindy.
In GW1 I played the first 2.5 years after release. I have no idea what you are talking about, must have come later.
Unless you are talking about elite capping, which wasn’t a grind at all.
I call bullpoo on this. Whether someone finds something as a grind is purely relative to the player itself. I for one loved GW1, but also felt a massive grind toward gaining skill points.
Rose tinted glasses.
not really . Even if you weren’t into booking or farming of any sort just killing stuff got you factiion as long as you talked to the guy right outside of town . I’ll give you that some of the skills were annoying to get but getting faction was easy .
GW1 had grind, rose tinted glasses make you believe it didn’t. The discussion is over perceived grind vs real grind. Do you have anything to add that isn’t opinion based? Just because YOU didn’t feel like something was a grind doesn’t mean it’s not grindy.
I second this statement.
I don’t defend GW2’s grind. If you dislike it, and prefer GW1’s grind over GW2’s grind, so be it. It is your subjective opinion, I do not wish to argue that.
However, grind did exist in GW1. Even if you prefered the “better” grind in GW1, this does not change the fact that yes, grind existed.
GW1 had grind, rose tinted glasses make you believe it didn’t. The discussion is over perceived grind vs real grind. Do you have anything to add that isn’t opinion based? Just because YOU didn’t feel like something was a grind doesn’t mean it’s not grindy.
That is not what the discussion is about. Any of the two games have grind if you choose to grind. Of course you can grind in GW1, for example going for GWAMM, which is a purely cosmetic title, if you really want to. But in GW1, you do not need to grind for max stat gear after completing the game which is not the case for GW2.
Apples and Oranges.
He’s talking about armor/weapons. You’re talking about titles. Of course it didn’t give you maximum efficient titles. But you didn’t need the maximum efficient titles to do any casual thing.
Stats are stats, whether they come from gear or titles.
I didn’t need exotics to do GW2 also. Heck, I farmed my Arah set in blues and greens. I’m pretty sure no one needs exotics to do casual things like World Bosses. There is no difference.
Incorrect, there’s a huge difference.
Those stats from your title had no impact on the following: Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood, Alliance Battle. They were only needed for, thus only really impacted, super elite hardcore zone PVE land.
The stats from exotics/ascended weapons certainly do have impact on World Versus World, which is gw2’s closest mechanism to those three from GW1.
You can try to do that in Blues/Greens like you do world bosses, but we both know what’s going to happen in a 1v1 versus an equally skilled player running the exact same build in full ascended gear.
There’s the difference.
Rose tinted glasses.
Out of arguments already?
Not an argument, it’s a statement, and it’s my first post in this thread.
Wich adds nothing to the discussion, ok i can move on.
GW1 had grind, rose tinted glasses make you believe it didn’t. The discussion is over perceived grind vs real grind. Do you have anything to add that isn’t opinion based? Just because YOU didn’t feel like something was a grind doesn’t mean it’s not grindy.
You didn’t read the previous posts, so nothing else to add.
Incorrect, there’s a huge difference.
Those stats from your title had no impact on the following: Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood, Alliance Battle.
The stats from exotics/ascended weapons certainly do have impact on World Versus World, which is gw2’s closest mechanism to those three from GW1.
You can try to do that in Blues/Greens like you do world bosses, but we both know what’s going to happen in a 1v1 versus an equally skilled player running the exact same build in full ascended gear.
There’s the difference.
You are absolutely correct.
This does not change the application of this concept on the PvE side of things.
If you think GW1’s grind was “better” because it doesn’t apply to PvP, go ahead.
Doesn’t change the fact that grind for more power on the PvE side does exist.
42,000 from vanquishing (7 maps, around 300 creatures each, 20 factions per kill.)
Actually, it’s around 21000 faction points for vanquishing a 300 creature map. You get 20 faction per kill, and a vanquish bonus equal to 50 faction per kill.
42,000 from vanquishing (7 maps, around 300 creatures each, 20 factions per kill.)
Actually, it’s around 21000 faction points for vanquishing a 300 creature map. You get 20 faction per kill, and a vanquish bonus equal to 50 faction per kill.
21,000 * 7 = 147,000.
Thank you for your correction. There are still 800,000 more title points to go for.
Enokitake made a good point. You are really compelled to get max stat ascended/legendary gear if you play WvW. Nobody wants to pvp at a disadvantage from the very start because of sub-par gear.
The way to enjoy pvp is in the condition of fairness before a match. If one player has ascended gear because he has more time grinding in the game and no real life responsibility while the other player holds a full time job, then it is not a fair match from the start. It is not a matter of skill anymore, and that kind of pvp design would suck!
42,000 from vanquishing (7 maps, around 300 creatures each, 20 factions per kill.)
Actually, it’s around 21000 faction points for vanquishing a 300 creature map. You get 20 faction per kill, and a vanquish bonus equal to 50 faction per kill.
21,000 * 7 = 147,000.
Thank you for your correction. There are still 800,000 more title points to go for.
I have 9 characters.
Furthermore, you get double title points by donating to guild or buying their pve skills with factions.
You are absolutely correct.
This does not change the application of this concept on the PvE side of things.
If you think GW1’s grind was “better” because it doesn’t apply to PvP, go ahead.
Doesn’t change the fact that grind for more power on the PvE side does exist.
That’s true. It did affect it. But it was not crucial unless you chose to hardcore PVE, which is my argument. I’m not saying it did not exist, i’m saying it was not required unless you wanted to be in the Elite Zones super club.
GW2’s grind affects PVP via WvW, PVE both elite and casual, and SPVP’s new skin system if they decided to add ascended skins to the new SPVP skin locker carryover from PVE.
Which is the big difference between the two.
You can with ascended gear in WvW though. Like said, its not the same.
You are shifting the goalposts.
Also, it was not possible to ever get rank 10 luxon or kurzick or deldrimor or norn or asura or ebon vanguard or lightbringer, etc, etc, through casual play, let alone quickly.
Now that’s just silly talk. I remember maxing Norn/Asura/Ebon.
I mean, to get to rank 10 required you doing hardmode vanquishes, or turning in hard mode Heroes/Dungeon guides since they don’t accept normal mode stuff beyond r8.
If you’re doing HM, I don’t consider you a casual player.
…or by simply doing the zaishen quests regularly. Those were fun dailies and the coins could actually be traded/given to friends if you wanted to help them out…can you trade laurels? Doing most of those z-quests with all human players in normal mode was very easy, and just moderately challenging in HM.
I hardly ever vanquished. If I did, it was because guildies were going and the game was more fun for me with friends around. If I was solo with hero’s, I actually preferred normal mode simply because I didn’t want the constant challenge and would rather enjoy the show so to speak. Same with dungeons; solo I did them in NM, with guildies HM but it was rare. And we took our time with them.
So no, getting max rank in the EotN titles didn’t mean I wasn’t casual.
Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care
I troll because I care
You are absolutely correct.
This does not change the application of this concept on the PvE side of things.
If you think GW1’s grind was “better” because it doesn’t apply to PvP, go ahead.
Doesn’t change the fact that grind for more power on the PvE side does exist.
That’s true. It did affect it. But it was not crucial unless you chose to hardcore PVE, which is my argument. I’m not saying it did not exist, i’m saying it was not required unless you wanted to be in the Elite Zones super club.
GW2’s grind affects PVP via WvW, PVE both elite and casual, and SPVP’s new skin system if they decided to add ascended skins to the new SPVP skin locker carryover from PVE.
Which is the big difference between the two.
Then you should be crying in the WvW/PVP forums about stat increases instead of crying about grind.
You are absolutely correct.
This does not change the application of this concept on the PvE side of things.
If you think GW1’s grind was “better” because it doesn’t apply to PvP, go ahead.
Doesn’t change the fact that grind for more power on the PvE side does exist.
That’s true. It did affect it. But it was not crucial unless you chose to hardcore PVE, which is my argument. I’m not saying it did not exist, i’m saying it was not required unless you wanted to be in the Elite Zones super club.
GW2’s grind affects PVP via WvW, PVE both elite and casual, and SPVP’s new skin system if they decided to add ascended skins to the new SPVP skin locker carryover from PVE.
Which is the big difference between the two.
Then you should be crying in the WvW/PVP forums about stat increases instead of crying about grind.
Since WvW/PvP are a part of the game and this also affects PvE, I don’t see why he should discuss it there instead.
21,000 * 7 = 147,000.
Thank you for your correction. There are still 800,000 more title points to go for.
Anyway, for all I cared the only skill that mattered was Save Yourselves and it was already pretty OP at rank 1. And it actually maxed at rank 5. If you give your faction points to your guild, you only need 420k points more or less.
There is also the potential of doubling that further with the double faction week-ends.
You are absolutely correct.
This does not change the application of this concept on the PvE side of things.
If you think GW1’s grind was “better” because it doesn’t apply to PvP, go ahead.
Doesn’t change the fact that grind for more power on the PvE side does exist.
That’s true. It did affect it. But it was not crucial unless you chose to hardcore PVE, which is my argument. I’m not saying it did not exist, i’m saying it was not required unless you wanted to be in the Elite Zones super club.
GW2’s grind affects PVP via WvW, PVE both elite and casual, and SPVP’s new skin system if they decided to add ascended skins to the new SPVP skin locker carryover from PVE.
Which is the big difference between the two.
Then you should be crying in the WvW/PVP forums about stat increases instead of crying about grind.
The problem isn’t grind. The problem is grind for stat increases. If you wanted to grind legendary when it was the same stats as exotic, or a GW1 item that preformed the same as everyone else’s but looked differently (which was what gw1 grind was for). that’s not the problem.
Are you even reading this thread or just talking?
And remember that all that grind was meaningless if those PvE skills had no room in your builds!
Gw1 provided the option to grind. It just wasn’t associated with character power. Just by playing the story or doing dungeons you could get your ranks to the point that most skills were at max power. The time investment for maxing a title is exponential, meaning for a fraction of the time required to max the title you could get it to 1/2 complete or higher.
If you disagree about vertical power progression in Gw1 please provide examples. I’ll be happy to address them each individually and compare and contrast with Gw2.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
You are absolutely correct.
This does not change the application of this concept on the PvE side of things.
If you think GW1’s grind was “better” because it doesn’t apply to PvP, go ahead.
Doesn’t change the fact that grind for more power on the PvE side does exist.
That’s true. It did affect it. But it was not crucial unless you chose to hardcore PVE, which is my argument. I’m not saying it did not exist, i’m saying it was not required unless you wanted to be in the Elite Zones super club.
GW2’s grind affects PVP via WvW, PVE both elite and casual, and SPVP’s new skin system if they decided to add ascended skins to the new SPVP skin locker carryover from PVE.
Which is the big difference between the two.
Then you should be crying in the WvW/PVP forums about stat increases instead of crying about grind.
The problem isn’t grind. The problem is grind for stat increases. If you wanted to grind legendary when it was the same stats as exotic, or a GW1 item that preformed the same as everyone else’s but looked differently (which was what gw1 grind was for). that’s not the problem.
Are you even reading this thread or just talking?
You’re complaining about STATS because those STATS affect PvP. Earlier in the thread it was said that the GW1 grind was fine because it didn’t affect PvP. If the STATS in pve don’t matter, then this is a bunch of whining because of PvP, which means you should whine in the PvP section about the STATS, not the grind.
Do you even know what this thread is about anymore?
GW1 only started becoming grindy after Nightfall when they introduced pve-only skills that scaled with title ranks. Everyone, even Anet, knew that it was a mistake and that’s why in 2010-2011 they severely diminished the amount of grind that was required.
And there was no grind to get normal skills. You bought them from vendors, killed bosses for elite skills or did quests for them. No grind at all.
You are absolutely correct.
This does not change the application of this concept on the PvE side of things.
If you think GW1’s grind was “better” because it doesn’t apply to PvP, go ahead.
Doesn’t change the fact that grind for more power on the PvE side does exist.
That’s true. It did affect it. But it was not crucial unless you chose to hardcore PVE, which is my argument. I’m not saying it did not exist, i’m saying it was not required unless you wanted to be in the Elite Zones super club.
GW2’s grind affects PVP via WvW, PVE both elite and casual, and SPVP’s new skin system if they decided to add ascended skins to the new SPVP skin locker carryover from PVE.
Which is the big difference between the two.
Then you should be crying in the WvW/PVP forums about stat increases instead of crying about grind.
The problem isn’t grind. The problem is grind for stat increases. If you wanted to grind legendary when it was the same stats as exotic, or a GW1 item that preformed the same as everyone else’s but looked differently (which was what gw1 grind was for). that’s not the problem.
Are you even reading this thread or just talking?
You’re complaining about STATS because those STATS affect PvP. Earlier in the thread it was said that the GW1 grind was fine because it didn’t affect PvP. If the STATS in pve don’t matter, then this is a bunch of whining because of PvP, which means you should whine in the PvP section about the STATS, not the grind.
Do you even know what this thread is about anymore?
It’s about GW1’s horizontal progression being equated as close to GW2’s vertical progression (which it wasn’t, because its no where near as pervasive and impacting in multiple areas of the game).
The stats in GW1’s progression only truly affected hardcore PVE. The stats in GW2’s progression goes far beyond that.
The WvW argument is an EXAMPLE of ONE WAY the grind is MORE PERVASIVE than it was in gw1. It is not the ONLY REASON. It affects every other area of the game (except sPVP/tPVP in performance, but possibly appearance in the future) as well.
So the answer to the question is Yes, but you don’t.
You are absolutely correct.
This does not change the application of this concept on the PvE side of things.
If you think GW1’s grind was “better” because it doesn’t apply to PvP, go ahead.
Doesn’t change the fact that grind for more power on the PvE side does exist.
That’s true. It did affect it. But it was not crucial unless you chose to hardcore PVE, which is my argument. I’m not saying it did not exist, i’m saying it was not required unless you wanted to be in the Elite Zones super club.
GW2’s grind affects PVP via WvW, PVE both elite and casual, and SPVP’s new skin system if they decided to add ascended skins to the new SPVP skin locker carryover from PVE.
Which is the big difference between the two.
Then you should be crying in the WvW/PVP forums about stat increases instead of crying about grind.
The problem isn’t grind. The problem is grind for stat increases. If you wanted to grind legendary when it was the same stats as exotic, or a GW1 item that preformed the same as everyone else’s but looked differently (which was what gw1 grind was for). that’s not the problem.
Are you even reading this thread or just talking?
You’re complaining about STATS because those STATS affect PvP. Earlier in the thread it was said that the GW1 grind was fine because it didn’t affect PvP. If the STATS in pve don’t matter, then this is a bunch of whining because of PvP, which means you should whine in the PvP section about the STATS, not the grind.
Do you even know what this thread is about anymore?
It’s about GW1’s horizontal progression being equated as close to GW2’s vertical progression (which it wasn’t, because its no where near as pervasive and impacting in multiple areas of the game).
The stats in GW1’s progression only truly affected hardcore PVE. The stats in GW2’s progression goes far beyond that.
The WvW argument is an EXAMPLE of ONE WAY the grind is MORE PERVASIVE than it was in gw1. It is not the ONLY REASON. It affects every other area of the game (except sPVP/tPVP in performance, but possibly appearance in the future) as well.
So the answer to the question is Yes, but you don’t.
So if WvW isn’t the only reason, then that leaves pve, in which case the stats and grind only affect hardcore pve.
then that leaves pve, in which case the stats and grind only affect hardcore pve.
…and here’s the part where you said something that doesn’t even make sense and makes me think you aren’t paying attention.
It doesn’t LEAVE only hardcore pve, it INCLUDES hardcore pve… and casual PVE, WvW, and ANY PVP/PvE crossover they might add in the future.
It will effect ANY game mode where PvE stats affect skill damage/healing/function.
Which is only every part of the game… except sPVP.
(edited by Enokitake.1742)
So if WvW isn’t the only reason, then that leaves pve, in which case the stats and grind only affect hardcore pve.
It impacts regular PvE too. Rare and exotics aren’t worth the price while leveling. You can’t just get max stat gear part way through the story like you could in Guild Wars for dirt cheap prices. That’s what a lot of people complaining don’t like.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
then that leaves pve, in which case the stats and grind only affect hardcore pve.
…and here’s the part where you said something that doesn’t even make sense and makes me think you aren’t paying attention.
It doesn’t LEAVE only hardcore pve, it INCLUDES hardcore pve… and casual PVE, WvW, and ANY PVP/PvE crossover they might add in the future.
It will effect ANY game mode where PvE stats affect skill damage/healing/function.
But in pve it doesn’t matter, as pointed out earlier in this thread when defending GW1 grind. If the grind is too much for Average Joe, then exotics are more then adequate.
then that leaves pve, in which case the stats and grind only affect hardcore pve.
…and here’s the part where you said something that doesn’t even make sense and makes me think you aren’t paying attention.
It doesn’t LEAVE only hardcore pve, it INCLUDES hardcore pve… and casual PVE, WvW, and ANY PVP/PvE crossover they might add in the future.
It will effect ANY game mode where PvE stats affect skill damage/healing/function.
But in pve it doesn’t matter, as pointed out earlier in this thread when defending GW1 grind. If the grind is too much for Average Joe, then exotics are more then adequate.
Until average joe goes into WvW fighting ascended players.
In GW1 grind provided no real power difference in most modes, and real power differences in a very limited amount of scenarios. Even then the real power difference was only desired to acquire an item which looked cool and had no power difference with any other item.
In GW2 the power difference rewarded from grind is in every mode except sPVP.
…You keep trying to isolate the modes to make some sort of point. Ignoring half the game isn’t working as an excuse.
then that leaves pve, in which case the stats and grind only affect hardcore pve.
…and here’s the part where you said something that doesn’t even make sense and makes me think you aren’t paying attention.
It doesn’t LEAVE only hardcore pve, it INCLUDES hardcore pve… and casual PVE, WvW, and ANY PVP/PvE crossover they might add in the future.
It will effect ANY game mode where PvE stats affect skill damage/healing/function.
But in pve it doesn’t matter, as pointed out earlier in this thread when defending GW1 grind. If the grind is too much for Average Joe, then exotics are more then adequate.
Until average joe goes into WvW fighting ascended players.
In GW1 grind provided no real power difference in most modes, and real power differences in a very limited amount of scenarios. Even then the real power difference was only desired to acquire an item which looked cool and had no power difference with any other item.
In GW2 the power difference rewarded from grind is in every mode except sPVP.
…You keep trying to isolate the modes to make some sort of point. Ignoring half the game isn’t working as an excuse.
It’s a good thing WvW isn’t balanced around 1v1, since >80’s have to fight full blown exotics all the time. And don’t forget his teammates, who might also be in ascended gear. People keep bringing up “what if their in X gear?! How will we compete?” Well, what if you’re in X gear? Then it turns into “I earned it/skill/they should work for it”.
It’s a good thing WvW isn’t balanced around 1v1, since >80’s have to fight full blown exotics all the time. And don’t forget his teammates, who might also be in ascended gear. People keep bringing up “what if their in X gear?! How will we compete?” Well, what if you’re in X gear? Then it turns into “I earned it/skill/they should work for it”.
First off: GW1 was (wisely) based on horizontal progression, non-gear based grind. Everyone was equal in gear performance and people did not have to grind to keep up in combat, in PVP. They did not need their teammates to carry their bad gear, which is exactly what you’re suggesting.
Second off: If I was a developer, sub 80’s would’ve gotten exotic stat level 80 added on to those base stats they get increased.
Edit: I’ve also lost count of the times I’ve heard commanders say “don’t bring sub-80’s or undergeared in this week, we want to beat blackgate/SOR.” (I’m jade quarry)
They want them out so they can get geared 80’s through the full queue. Lets make that problem even worse. Good Idea.
Then it turns into "I earned it/skill/they should work for it
Third off: LOL, its not based on skill. It’s based on how much PVE grinding you do. Its based on how much you sit at the broker market flipping. Its based on how much gem you purchase on your credit card and convert to gold, or buy from china farmers. Grind based gear always comes from one of those three things. Ascended weapons are roughly 60g each. If armor is only half of that a full set will cost you at least 180g without crafting.
Lastly: If that’s the good excuse, why don’t we do what TERA/Aion do and add even more grindy gear tiers? In TERA they hit max level at 135 gear score while the max gear score is 165+. They have to go through 3 sets just to get to the places where they have a reasonable gear score and it affects PVP everywhere. They say exactly the same thing you just said as an excuse.
(edited by Enokitake.1742)
It’s a good thing WvW isn’t balanced around 1v1, since >80’s have to fight full blown exotics all the time. And don’t forget his teammates, who might also be in ascended gear. People keep bringing up “what if their in X gear?! How will we compete?” Well, what if you’re in X gear? Then it turns into “I earned it/skill/they should work for it”.
First off: GW1 was (wisely) based on horizontal progression, non-gear based grind. Everyone was equal in gear performance and people did not have to grind to keep up in combat, in PVE or PVP. They did not need their teammates to carry their bad gear, which is exactly what you’re suggesting.
This isn’t Gw1, it’s never going to be GW1.
Second off: If I was a developer, sub 80’s would’ve gotten exotic stat level 80 added on to those base stats they get increased.
This is a much better argument then crying about grind. And with enough evidence it could actually accomplish something.
Then it turns into "I earned it/skill/they should work for it
Third off: LOL, its not based on skill. It’s based on how much PVE grinding you do. Its based on how much you sit at the broker market flipping. Its based on how much gem you purchase on your credit card and convert to gold, or buy from china farmers. Grind based gear always comes from one of those three things. Ascended weapons are roughly 60g each. If armor is only half of that a full set will cost you at least 180g without crafting.
So the most efficient way to “grind” doesn’t take skill? It doesn’t take knowledge of the game and mechanics, and the ability to use that in the most effective way?
Lastly: If that’s the good excuse, why don’t we do what TERA/Aion do and add even more grindy gear tiers? In TERA they hit max level at 135 gear score while the max gear score is 165+. They have to go through 3 sets just to get to the places where they have a reasonable gear score and it affects PVP everywhere. They say exactly the same thing you just said as an excuse.
Lets just go even further and turn this game into WoW. Or just go play WoW.
Which is why GW1 players are complaining.
And they’re not going to do that, it’s been asked for already.
So the most efficient way to “grind” doesn’t take skill? It doesn’t take knowledge of the game and mechanics, and the ability to use that in the most effective way?
The most efficient way to grind is your credit card in the Gem Store, covert to gold, black lion trading, buy materials.
0 Skill. 0 Effort. 0 knowledge of game mechanics. 100% reward.
(edited by Enokitake.1742)
Which is why GW1 players are complaining.
And they’re not going to do that, it’s been asked for already.
So the most efficient way to “grind” doesn’t take skill? It doesn’t take knowledge of the game and mechanics, and the ability to use that in the most effective way?
The most efficient way to grind is your credit card in the Gem Store, covert to gold, black lion trading, buy materials.
0 Skill. 0 Effort. 0 knowledge of game mechanics. 100% reward.
You can buy your way to 500, but you can only buy a small portion of the actual materials. Besides, if it’s so easy, why the complaints?
Ok, that’s true, GW1 had a bit grind in some skills: having a maxed LB title was very useful for doing DoA, having maxed Norn title was very useful for playing UrsanWay… but, you know what??
When I played GW1, even with that skill grind (only for PvE skills that you were able to use in a very restricted way – not more than three at the same time and only for PvE -), I was able to change my build as many times I wanted, because:
- Those skills were almost perfect at mid level, and that level was easy to reach
- There were a lot of skills, even a secondary profession, so you could try a lot of builds, some of them as good as the ones who required PvE skills
- Gear was very easy to acquire, and mods were so cheap that you could play with new stats everyday and you still won gold if you played properly.
Due to this, GW1 is by far much better than GW2: more enjoyable, more alt-friendly and more build diversity-friendly
“Guild wars is for everybody, freedom is ascended, zerg is strength”
~ G. Orrwell, great shaman of the new flame legion, 1984 AE.
You can buy your way to 500, but you can only buy a small portion of the actual materials. Besides, if it’s so easy, why the complaints?
…Because you shouldn’t be able to buy power differences with mom and dad’s credit card?
(hey, there’s another difference in the game, no convert to gold option, can only buy skins)
Type in deldrimor steel ignot, deldrimor steel plated dowel, elonian leather square in the trade broker and see what comes up. There’s your bulk of materials. The only thing you can’t buy is the vision crystal, but you can get it pretty easily if you follow champ trains, WvW trains, and PvE boss trains. I did my theif’s second ascended dagger two days after her first, cause I said kitten grinding and dropped 60g.
You can buy your way to 500, but you can only buy a small portion of the actual materials. Besides, if it’s so easy, why the complaints?
…Because you shouldn’t be able to buy power differences with mom and dad’s credit card?
(hey, there’s another difference in the game, no convert to gold option, can only buy skins)
Type in deldrimor steel ignot, deldrimor steel plated dowel, elonian leather square in the trade broker and see what comes up. There’s your bulk of materials. The only thing you can’t buy is the vision crystal, but you can get it pretty easily if you follow champ trains, WvW trains, and PvE boss trains. I did my theif’s second ascended dagger two days after her first, cause I said kitten grinding and dropped 60g.
You can buy exotics and skip the crafting part.
You can buy exotics and skip the crafting part.
And still be at a power disadvantage, moot point.