Guild Wars 2

ColinJohanson.2394:

Lord.4270:

Hi,

We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.

So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !

Why can t we play as we want .. ??

HoT will include a solution for this for both guilds that are WvW, and PvP oriented that want to build and expand their Guild Halls and need the favor generated by guild missions. Same goes for guilds that have a mix of players interested in all three. More info down the road a bit on how this will work once we’ve got it a little more solid on our end.

Edited to add: Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what. If your group online is too small, you’ll need to invite friends (or pay/beg/sing-songs-to-woo peeps in Lion’s Arch!) to come with you and help you claim the guild hall to own one. Or you could always grow your guild

Thanks Colin, I’m very glad to hear that we can recruit non-member help to capture the guild halls. Much appreciated!

DevilLordLaser.8619:

-snip-

Let is be challenging
Let it hard
Let it take lots of time

I’m fine with that.

Hell lets tie some quests to it that need to be done in a very specific order, like UW.

But let is scale, to at least a certain degree. I can deal with it 5-man I suppose, but making it require 10-15+ is absurd. Yes, those group sizes need “challenging content.” This should not be that though.

I’m not ruining anything for larger guilds. If a person can solo it, and its actually challenging (which we both want it to be), then why the hell are you holding that person back? Why are you now dictating what they are and are not allowed to do? Why are you and what you want so much more important? Because you have more people? More != Better. More != Right. You somehow feel devalued because of our accomplishment, so instead of cheering for us, you opt to hold us down. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to go “sit in the back of the bus.”

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

I’m not trying to sound uncaring, but this game wasn’t built to work around 3 man guilds… or even 5 man guilds. It has been stated already that its initial design was for 10+. I understand Anet is trying to accommodate your size, however I feel you should be making equal effort to grow your guild to help as well. and as stated a few times before, there are still things you can already do to get what you need to take the guild hall. That includes getting the favor needed to deco after as well.

Keep in mind here that YOU are choosing to restrict your guild to 3 players… it doesnt have to be that way. Add more friends… if you dont have any, make an effort to make a few new ones then. you have several months at current estimation to get them. It was never Anets intention to have 1-3 man guilds. Another idea is to team up with another small guild your size, and maybe help each other take a guildhall, that way you were important to theirs and they are important to yours… maybe even stay teamed up and combine guilds if you become friends?

To me it just seems like you want all the benefits of a large job… without being a large crew… If you want the same million dollar payout of a large business’s job, you cant expect to get it as a 3 man business and earn as much as a larger business doing 3 times the work…

I have 8 in my guild atm, only 2-3 of us ever seem to be on. People have lives, jobs, family, school…so its hard to coordinate.

You assume I have never tried to grow my guild, which is an inaccurate assumption. Twice previously we’ve grown, upwards of 30 players at one point. However, all it takes is one person to rip it apart, and having been stabbed in the back twice now, yes I’m rather a bit more picky about who is allowed into our little circle.

I’m sorry I’m not one of those facebook people that just accepts everyone that requests a friend invite so that I can have a body count to make myself feel better. Some of us just don’t function that way.

I’m sorry, but insecurity about your leadership capability does not mean I should have my guilds experience cheapened to accommodate you. Would I like for all guilds to be able to do the content and do it solely by themselves, sure… is that gonna happen? Not without punishing large guilds by making them irrelevant or nullifying their accomplishment. If you want the big boy toys… be a big boy. ( i.e get off your laurels and make new friends so you can grow your guild.) besides, as mentioned before, Guild wars wasn’t designed to have 1-3 man guilds. Might as well change the name to PartyWars 2 if were gonna go down that road.

I am not saying Anet isnt going to try to help you out where they can, but it comes down to plain statistics… your guild = very very very small minority. the remainder are their focus. They are not gonna jeopardize a million dollars to save 10,000… But as I said before, they will do their best to do what they can for you without risking the rest.

I believe Lanfear already said that they were willing to do the extra work, fight the harder fights, etc to get the same thing.

Its what many of us in small guilds with low recent rep have been saying a ll along. Only everyone else is trying to say we want the guild halls with no effort.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what. If your group online is too small, you’ll need to invite friends (or pay/beg/sing-songs-to-woo peeps in Lion’s Arch!) to come with you and help you claim the guild hall to own one. Or you could always grow your guild

can you please explain how the whole inviting-non-guildies-to-our-guild-hall thing will work?

CorrynnStarr.7942:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

I’m not trying to sound uncaring, but this game wasn’t built to work around 3 man guilds… or even 5 man guilds. It has been stated already that its initial design was for 10+. I understand Anet is trying to accommodate your size, however I feel you should be making equal effort to grow your guild to help as well. and as stated a few times before, there are still things you can already do to get what you need to take the guild hall. That includes getting the favor needed to deco after as well.

Keep in mind here that YOU are choosing to restrict your guild to 3 players… it doesnt have to be that way. Add more friends… if you dont have any, make an effort to make a few new ones then. you have several months at current estimation to get them. It was never Anets intention to have 1-3 man guilds. Another idea is to team up with another small guild your size, and maybe help each other take a guildhall, that way you were important to theirs and they are important to yours… maybe even stay teamed up and combine guilds if you become friends?

To me it just seems like you want all the benefits of a large job… without being a large crew… If you want the same million dollar payout of a large business’s job, you cant expect to get it as a 3 man business and earn as much as a larger business doing 3 times the work…

I have 8 in my guild atm, only 2-3 of us ever seem to be on. People have lives, jobs, family, school…so its hard to coordinate.

You assume I have never tried to grow my guild, which is an inaccurate assumption. Twice previously we’ve grown, upwards of 30 players at one point. However, all it takes is one person to rip it apart, and having been stabbed in the back twice now, yes I’m rather a bit more picky about who is allowed into our little circle.

I’m sorry I’m not one of those facebook people that just accepts everyone that requests a friend invite so that I can have a body count to make myself feel better. Some of us just don’t function that way.

I’m sorry, but insecurity about your leadership capability does not mean I should have my guilds experience cheapened to accommodate you. Would I like for all guilds to be able to do the content and do it solely by themselves, sure… is that gonna happen? Not without punishing large guilds by making them irrelevant or nullifying their accomplishment. If you want the big boy toys… be a big boy. ( i.e get off your laurels and make new friends so you can grow your guild.) besides, as mentioned before, Guild wars wasn’t designed to have 1-3 man guilds. Might as well change the name to PartyWars 2 if were gonna go down that road.

I am not saying Anet isnt going to try to help you out where they can, but it comes down to plain statistics… your guild = very very very small minority. the remainder are their focus. They are not gonna jeopardize a million dollars to save 10,000… But as I said before, they will do their best to do what they can for you without risking the rest.

My leadership capabilities aren’t an issue. Which is why the core of my guild, the people still with me, have been with me for almost a decade. (Starting to feel old, ugh)

I’m not saying to cheapen it for larger guilds. I’m not saying to make it a walk in the kitten park. Our achievement should in no way nullify your achievement, and if you feel that way, that’s your own insecurity talking. There is no reason why smaller guilds should not be able to achieve the same goal via the same means – getting their guildmates together and kicking some modrem kitten . Just because we can’t field 100 players doesn’t mean that we should “have” to go find randoms to help us. We should have the same opportunity with just as much difficulty.

And we are not the only small guild that feels this way.

I would venture to guess it would work something like an instance does now. we all gather at a place to go to an instance, we get ported there, invite friends thru the party then leave party, rinse repeat? Just a guess tho.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I believe Lanfear already said that they were willing to do the extra work, fight the harder fights, etc to get the same thing.

Its what many of us in small guilds with low recent rep have been saying a ll along. Only everyone else is trying to say we want the guild halls with no effort.

I haven’t seen anyone ask for no effort. I certainly wasn’t trying to imply no effort. I agree with Lanfear, make it a hard fight, but make it accessible to all guild sizes.

I really don’t understand the “all or nothing” type of philosophy I’m seeing from the “big guild” proponents. Why can there not be both? Why cannot scaling handle both scenarios? My guild is small and we have many of our own reasons to keep it small. I don’t understand how it cheapens one guild’s experience to take a large group through an epic fight that they desire to have, just because a smaller group or a solo player can make it through (not to be read faceroll) the same content, only downscaled.

If I could solo it, after your guild had their fun, how would that affect your guild? We both get the experience we sought, and neither of us would even know the other did anything.

We all know that any size group will be able to start the claiming expedition. ANyone who figures there’s going to be a lockout is dumb. ArenaNet has never implemented a minimum-size lockout in any GW game, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone can try anything solo if they want it.

What this discussion seems to be wanting is for the content to be designed for solos/twobies, then scaled up for larger groups if necessary. That’s horse manure. It’s completely and utter crap and we all freaking know it, eh? If the content is designed for twobies and then told to scale up, guess what? Everyone will do it with twobies – even the largest five hundred-man guilds. Because that’s what it was built for.

The content should be designed for that fifteen-man balance point. Or, if I were to have my perfect-world wish here, it’d be designed for a ten-man team, but either way. If it scales down, it scales down to five and no lower. If a solo or a twobie or three beer buddies from Wuv want to tackle the content, then they can run it below that scaling level and feel even more awesome when they manage to claim what should have taken between two and seven more guys to manage.

But you do not get to scrap the claiming event entirely, or turn it into a lowball milk run. Again, there’s not going to be any “you must have this many in your party to start this event” junk, but if you’re honestly hoping they’ll redesign the event to be built for solos…well, maybe the ‘Guild’ part of Guild Wars isn’t your thing.

Torsailr.8456:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I believe Lanfear already said that they were willing to do the extra work, fight the harder fights, etc to get the same thing.

Its what many of us in small guilds with low recent rep have been saying a ll along. Only everyone else is trying to say we want the guild halls with no effort.

I haven’t seen anyone ask for no effort. I certainly wasn’t trying to imply no effort. I agree with Lanfear, make it a hard fight, but make it accessible to all guild sizes.

Oh yes, I want to see it hard. I want to laugh at my husband as he rages about dying (repeatedly, serves him right). I want to feel like I am actually struggling to push the mordrem back, so I can stake my claim. I want them nipping at my heels, and trying to flank me as I push my position forward. I want to find and take defensible positions and bunker down to establish supply lines before I can reasonably push forward again. I want there to be a giant boss at the end that trying to squash me with every breath. I want that sense of pride, that desire to take a screenshot of me dancing on his head.

From what we’ve seen, I’m only going to get tiny pieces of that. But kitten it! Make it hard! Just don’t make the ‘hard’ part having to find competent people. I have a guild for that, we just aren’t super big.

im looking forward to solo the capturing instance

DevilLordLaser.8619:

We all know that any size group will be able to start the claiming expedition. ANyone who figures there’s going to be a lockout is dumb. ArenaNet has never implemented a minimum-size lockout in any GW game, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone can try anything solo if they want it.

What this discussion seems to be wanting is for the content to be designed for solos/twobies, then scaled up for larger groups if necessary. That’s horse manure. It’s completely and utter crap and we all freaking know it, eh? If the content is designed for twobies and then told to scale up, guess what? Everyone will do it with twobies – even the largest five hundred-man guilds. Because that’s what it was built for.

The content should be designed for that fifteen-man balance point. Or, if I were to have my perfect-world wish here, it’d be designed for a ten-man team, but either way. If it scales down, it scales down to five and no lower. If a solo or a twobie or three beer buddies from Wuv want to tackle the content, then they can run it below that scaling level and feel even more awesome when they manage to claim what should have taken between two and seven more guys to manage.

But you do not get to scrap the claiming event entirely, or turn it into a lowball milk run. Again, there’s not going to be any “you must have this many in your party to start this event” junk, but if you’re honestly hoping they’ll redesign the event to be built for solos…well, maybe the ‘Guild’ part of Guild Wars isn’t your thing.

So you’re saying that you don’t want us to devalue your sense of accomplishment. However, because we don’t meet ‘x’ size, it’s perfectly fine to devalue ours instead by making us PuG it.

Was going to just edit this into my post above, but the forum keeps bolluxing my tries so screw it.

Mojo Gris Gris.5941:

I really don’t understand the “all or nothing” type of philosophy I’m seeing from the “big guild” proponents. Why can there not be both? Why cannot scaling handle both scenarios?

Because GW2’s event scaling system is extremely dodgy. It can handle some moderate swings – say, twelve guys instead of fifteen or eight instead of ten, or the other way around – but the system just does not, and never has, coped well with drastic swings in population count. If four guys tried to do an event designed for fifteen, the normal scaling system would make it either the next best thing to impossible, or ridiculously easy to the point where downscaling the event to four guys would basically count as a quick-clear exploit.

Unfortunate but true. Not really ArenaNet’s fault, either, the scaling system just can’t be expected to stretch around that many variables without some sort of weird results. Nevertheless, it’s the world we live in so we have to deal with it.

Lanfear: See above. The scaling system Does. Not. Work. for this drastic a swing. There has to be a line somewhere, some player count around which the content is designed/balanced, and then upper and lower limits on how far they expect the scaling system to stretch. A five hundred man guild who sends two hundred guys to the claiming expedition is going to flatten it in ten minutes because the scaling system just cannot accommodate that level of overpopulation for an event designed for ten, fifteen guys.

Same reasoning on the low end – the scaling system just doesn’t work well if two people try to do an event designed for fifteen. You’ll either find it frustratingly impossible or demoralizingly easy. I don’t want to see either one; both are bad for the game.

LoopySnoopy.7923:

This doesn’t sound very promising, there is a reason why I have a small guild with only 5 people in it. I do hope I and the rest of my family are not going to be excluded in taking part in the guild hall capture.

So… you… just invite 5 randoms for the capture missions and done?

you may not be the only small guild that feels that way, but i guarantee you there are not enuff of you to become the focus over the larger guilds. thats just a fact, not trying to belittle your situation. I disagree with you… because you are small you should not be entitled to the same things a larger guild has… I cant expect to get the same tax break a major corporation gets. nor should i get the same tax break a family of 6 gets, for my family of three. That is the biggest problem with todays society… they want everything everyone else has but dont qualify to get it. you want the benefits of being a large business owner… well… start a business and grow it.

I understand your frustration Lanfear… really I do. My guild started out the same way yours did… for about a year, my small band of friends 3 manned fractals till we were blue in the face. we 3 manned dungeons and all content to the point we finally said…“why are we killing ourselves for hours on end?” So what we did was recruited 5 random people. Then we watched to see who stuck around and who left. Sometimes it was all 5,sometimes it was just 2, but we kept recruiting small to make sure we didnt get a large influx of people who didnt fit in. and you know what? we now have a guild that there are 10+ on regularly that we are all friends with. and to boot, we made friends with a few other guilds in that time, and now if we are ever short on doing anything that takes alot of people, we have friends outside the guild that are more then willing to pitch in or lend us a few members. is mt experience not as good if It wasnt all just my guild doing whatever it was… no…. not in the least. I got to spend time with friends and build stronger bonds with those around me.

it only took about 2 weeks to build our membership up to about 30 members. and at any given time, 10 of them are on with the rare oddball occasion of late nights where there are just a few on. Im not saying you have to go out and invite every tom kitten and harry to your guild… but be observant, see if there are a few that could possibly fit your mold. I challenge you to invite 5 new players every week and see what it does for you. Heck, try only 3 if thas more your style, but do it. I guarantee within a few weeks you will have fresh eager blood in your guild that may turn into a really good thing.

To be fair, look at what actually happened to Destiny’s Edge when they try to take on a mission that require more people: One guy ran off to attempt rl issue, one guy died, and 2 rage quit.

Eventually, they have to (indirectly) ask 3 much bigger guilds for help just to accomplish something similar.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Puma.7934:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Edited to add: Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what.

So… can we have both guild halls?

no, you will have to be a part of at least 2 guilds to be able to use both types, including its armor/weapon sets.

According to the blog(s) you can have both halls. But you have to have them in sequence. Ie you can switch to a new hall if you want (very helpful down the road if/when they release new non-jungle theme ones) and carry over all your upgrades and decor, though you’ll have to reinstall the decor. Each switch requires you to go through the claiming process.

I assume that if you unlock the relevant skins you’ll still have them after the swap. This is only because that is how the wardrobe has worked in the past, not based on anything I’ve seen devs say.

See, what i read was that you couldn’t own both halls in order to have access to both new armor sets. It was explained that you would have to be a part of another guild in order to have access to the other armor set your original guild didn’t choose. Can you link the blog please?

Noone is suggesting lowering the difficulty so that less than 5 can complete it easier. They are simply saying dont add a minimum player requirement. So with enough time, effort and skill even a solo/duo/trio guild can do it. Id imagine such a group would have an extremely hard time. But thats part of the desire to do it in that small of a group.

It certainly wouldnt be a realistic method for the average players to unlock their guild halls. It would be like soloing scale 50 fractals. Very few people can do it (but it is possible which is the key point). Most players will go for the easier method and get some extra help. The point is players that dont want outside help can still at least attempt and maybe succeed if they truly put the effort in.

My guild has 52 active members and yet its still next to impossible to get more than 10 to show up for any type of event we try. We couldn’t manage a full Bounty with only 7 of us. I’m hoping we don’t get crushed by this Guild Hall thing.
@Colinjohanson. So as a smaller Guild with 10 players or less online at any one time-you’re saying I may have to BEG on mapchat for another Guild to drop everything and help mine? Or rely on the kindness of strangers in LA to give up THEIR time to help my Guild? That’s….awesome….. I hope you guys at LEAST make it a 5 person minimum-please!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

We all know that any size group will be able to start the claiming expedition. ANyone who figures there’s going to be a lockout is dumb. ArenaNet has never implemented a minimum-size lockout in any GW game, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone can try anything solo if they want it.

What this discussion seems to be wanting is for the content to be designed for solos/twobies, then scaled up for larger groups if necessary. That’s horse manure. It’s completely and utter crap and we all freaking know it, eh? If the content is designed for twobies and then told to scale up, guess what? Everyone will do it with twobies – even the largest five hundred-man guilds. Because that’s what it was built for.

The content should be designed for that fifteen-man balance point. Or, if I were to have my perfect-world wish here, it’d be designed for a ten-man team, but either way. If it scales down, it scales down to five and no lower. If a solo or a twobie or three beer buddies from Wuv want to tackle the content, then they can run it below that scaling level and feel even more awesome when they manage to claim what should have taken between two and seven more guys to manage.

But you do not get to scrap the claiming event entirely, or turn it into a lowball milk run. Again, there’s not going to be any “you must have this many in your party to start this event” junk, but if you’re honestly hoping they’ll redesign the event to be built for solos…well, maybe the ‘Guild’ part of Guild Wars isn’t your thing.

So you’re saying that you don’t want us to devalue your sense of accomplishment. However, because we don’t meet ‘x’ size, it’s perfectly fine to devalue ours instead by making us PuG it.

That’s like saying it’s ok to devalue a group’s ability to run dungeons, or high level fractals by making them intentionally soloable. This is meant to be content for groups, for groups of groups even. It’s not quite a raid, but it’s working on it, I suspect.

So yes, it’s ok to “devalue” your accomplishment by forcing you to PuG because you don’t have the necessary numbers to handle it on your own. Someone will always be dissatisfied. Better to have the group of five dissatisfied than the group of hundreds.

Kal Spiro.9745:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

We all know that any size group will be able to start the claiming expedition. ANyone who figures there’s going to be a lockout is dumb. ArenaNet has never implemented a minimum-size lockout in any GW game, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone can try anything solo if they want it.

What this discussion seems to be wanting is for the content to be designed for solos/twobies, then scaled up for larger groups if necessary. That’s horse manure. It’s completely and utter crap and we all freaking know it, eh? If the content is designed for twobies and then told to scale up, guess what? Everyone will do it with twobies – even the largest five hundred-man guilds. Because that’s what it was built for.

The content should be designed for that fifteen-man balance point. Or, if I were to have my perfect-world wish here, it’d be designed for a ten-man team, but either way. If it scales down, it scales down to five and no lower. If a solo or a twobie or three beer buddies from Wuv want to tackle the content, then they can run it below that scaling level and feel even more awesome when they manage to claim what should have taken between two and seven more guys to manage.

But you do not get to scrap the claiming event entirely, or turn it into a lowball milk run. Again, there’s not going to be any “you must have this many in your party to start this event” junk, but if you’re honestly hoping they’ll redesign the event to be built for solos…well, maybe the ‘Guild’ part of Guild Wars isn’t your thing.

So you’re saying that you don’t want us to devalue your sense of accomplishment. However, because we don’t meet ‘x’ size, it’s perfectly fine to devalue ours instead by making us PuG it.

That’s like saying it’s ok to devalue a group’s ability to run dungeons, or high level fractals by making them intentionally soloable. This is meant to be content for groups, for groups of groups even. It’s not quite a raid, but it’s working on it, I suspect.

So yes, it’s ok to “devalue” your accomplishment by forcing you to PuG because you don’t have the necessary numbers to handle it on your own. Someone will always be dissatisfied. Better to have the group of five dissatisfied than the group of hundreds.

Again you are misunderstanding Lanfears intention. We can solo dungeons and fractals but they are designed for 5 man groups. The only ones we cant solo are ones which have player checks (cof p1 gate). This is the kind of thing Lanfear and other small guilds would like to avoid. It doesnt mean the content should be designed for groups that small. It just means it should be possible even if it is incredibly difficult.

my guild consists of my two accounts. Still, I have the guild bonus for pre purchasing HoT and I’d like to be able to obtain a guild hall. I’m fine with inviting others to help get it.

My question is: Once gotten, what am I going to have to do to keep it?

@ColinJohanson,

Hey Colin, can you please confirm whether or not we HAVE to have a physical guild hall in order to access things like our guild vault/storage?

I have a personal guild I use specifically just for extra storage (and things like +5 sup’ing in WvW), and don’t want any others coming into my personal guild :-/

ColinJohanson.2394:

Randulf.7614:

Any indication on group size required for capture mission?

Will they have to be in the guild to help?

We’re still debating minimum size, you can see a lot of discussion down in the guild CDI thread that’s helping us inform some of those decisions.

And no – you don’t need people to be in your guild to help you capture it. Bring friendly guilds to help you out, ask nicely in Lion’s Arch, etc.

Id like to suggest maybe some kind of instance of the capture event be included for scaling purposes to make it easier for solo-5 person guilds to capture at least, w/o having to resort to bugging people to help. I think a lot of people really just wanted a guild hall as a private place with conveniences bank/vendors etc that can be accessed from anywhere much like GW1 as basic features for halls.

Lord.4270:

Hi,

We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.

So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !

Why can t we play as we want .. ??

Jesus, how long you been playing, this is Anet’s game and you will play how they want. Don’t find it fun? Buy some gems and don’t find it fun in 5.1 surround sound. Anet recommends 7.1 and sells the gems to upgrade

. . . Lanfear, if you really are hard pressed for person-power, drop me a line. I absolutely promise not to bearbow.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . Lanfear, if you really are hard pressed for person-power, drop me a line. I absolutely promise not to bearbow.

I don’t see the problem. It’s PvE, Bearbow is totally viable. It even has it’s own specific build.

So… what Lanfear simply means is to have the events completable by n-sizes without any bodily requirements (like stepping on n-switches, etc)?

Good Lord, look at some of the posts in this thread. And you wonder why so many people don’t want to deal with larger guilds?

Just look at what they have to look forward to.

Advent Leader.1083:

So… what Lanfear simply means is to have the events completable by n-sizes without any bodily requirements (like stepping on n-switches, etc)?

No, more like doable by any size guild.

Yes, even the one-person banking guild.

Sigh

Yeah. Sure. People who want things to do with their friends, as well as things to do by themselves, are totally the enemy here.

I give up. You’re all right; have at it. Scrap the stakes-claim event. Scrap guild missions. Get rid of all of it. Anything and everything that encourages the presence of more than one person. It’s not fair to solo players that guild content for guilds be designed with an eye towards guilds achieving it as a guild. Totally get it. I’m on board. Make it happen. No, really. Do it up. Build the content for solos. The scaling system is perfect; we can trust it, 100%.

Do you people ever stop to wonder why ArenaNet isn’t doing any more dungeons, or any other instanced content for small or mid-sized teams? Do you ever wonder why it’s all hundred-man world bosses or single-player Living Story releases, and never any blasted thing in between?

I’m pretty sure I know.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . Lanfear, if you really are hard pressed for person-power, drop me a line. I absolutely promise not to bearbow.

I offer the same. I made a suggestion in one of last week’s threads on this for where small guilds could keep in touch via a forum thread or something to help out on this if needed. The thread proved to be the unpopular one of the two and my post was the last in it

Anyway, since i’m in the same boat, the offer is there and for anyone.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Lord.4270:

Hi,

We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.

So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !

Why can t we play as we want .. ??

HoT will include a solution for this for both guilds that are WvW, and PvP oriented that want to build and expand their Guild Halls and need the favor generated by guild missions. Same goes for guilds that have a mix of players interested in all three. More info down the road a bit on how this will work once we’ve got it a little more solid on our end.

Edited to add: Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what. If your group online is too small, you’ll need to invite friends (or pay/beg/sing-songs-to-woo peeps in Lion’s Arch!) to come with you and help you claim the guild hall to own one. Or you could always grow your guild

I do hope it is not going to be ‘do something with your guild and earn some currency (like favor) and build what you want’. While I completely understand different guilds have different preferences and you don’t want them to have to do something they do not want, the currency system is very boring, it is way more fun for guilds to have specific task that reward specific things / unlocks / blue-prints for that guild. (just like the way you claim your hall).

In that way you really feel you are working to something, completing task for unlocks, knowing ‘I helped with that challenge so partly because of me we have that unlock’. That is just 10 times more fun than just doing stuff and having some currency slowly rolling the.

There has been a lot of talk about this in the Guild and Guild-hall CDI and you can easily make specific tasks without really having to force guilds into doing something they do not like. For example, make gates to the WvW maps in the guild, but for that need to hold (have the claim) a building in that map for x time and WvW themed decoration can be linked to goals / challenges / tasks you set out in WvW. While a gate to the PvP will require you to do something in PvP, decoration themed to a dungeon, or even a portal do a dungeon can be unlocked by completing challenges in / with that dungeon and so on.

That way you give specific goals, give new reasons to do many of the content but don’t force people to do content they do not like.. I mean, sure if they want to unlock anything they need to do anything, but can a guild really complain that they have to hold a keep in a WvW map to get a WvW map, because they don’t want to do WvW. Sure, some will complain, but overall this is a really reasonable and the most fun way to do it.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Sigh

Yeah. Sure. People who want things to do with their friends, as well as things to do by themselves, are totally the enemy here.

I can do a lot of things by myself. Unfortunately, I think there’s a rating clause preventing me from talking about half of them. And I think the other half are illegal outside of Ascalon.

. . . well, okay, outside of Ebonhawke.

. . . maybe inside too, I never thought to check.

Anyway, I don’t really have a dog in this fight. I’m more than willing to toss in my hat to help people get it if they need more warm bodies for the effort. Always have been willing to just go to help just because it’s fun. But on the one hand, you have the recurring question, now paraphrased by me:

“Just where should they try to balance this acquisition of guild halls, and should it be an epic event which requires some serious work . . . or something you can pull off between dinner and a shower before bed?”

The larger guilds are never, ever, going to have a problem completing these things even if they scale. Moderately-sized guilds are probably not going to run into issues either.

Smaller “we’re just friends who like to share the tag and guild chat as we do our own things” guilds also probably will have one severe range of how challenging it is for them. Depending on quite a bit.

. . . and believing that one, one person, who has a personal banking guild should be allowed a Guild Hall in the vein as a full guild? Why is that not something to just shake your head at and go “I don’t think so”?

Eh, you all fight it out. I’m probably going to not bother anyway by the time this all comes out. What’s the point in playing a game where it seems like all the players hate it?

ColinJohanson.2394:

Lord.4270:

Hi,

We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.

So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !

Why can t we play as we want .. ??

HoT will include a solution for this for both guilds that are WvW, and PvP oriented that want to build and expand their Guild Halls and need the favor generated by guild missions. Same goes for guilds that have a mix of players interested in all three. More info down the road a bit on how this will work once we’ve got it a little more solid on our end.

Edited to add: Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what. If your group online is too small, you’ll need to invite friends (or pay/beg/sing-songs-to-woo peeps in Lion’s Arch!) to come with you and help you claim the guild hall to own one. Or you could always grow your guild

Grow your Guild? That’s actually a pretty decent slap in the face, Multi guilding has killed smaller growing guilds completely, If people are not tied to a guild in some way briefly then they will never get to know the players, everyone wants all options ready and running so as for GROWING a guild easier said then done. This could be easily fixed by having 1 guild policy and having alliances like GW1.
Members get the chat and benefits of multi guilding without chopping and changing constantly using guilds like a LFG tool. This is imo by far the worst guild/clan system I have seen online to date. People will argue they want to and do roll multiple guilds for what ever reason but that is exactly what Alliances provide but without crippling the creation of guilds along the way. Arenanet needs to seriously look into this because this is after all GUILD wars.

yakuza snowdragon.4639:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Lord.4270:

Hi,

We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.

So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !

Why can t we play as we want .. ??

HoT will include a solution for this for both guilds that are WvW, and PvP oriented that want to build and expand their Guild Halls and need the favor generated by guild missions. Same goes for guilds that have a mix of players interested in all three. More info down the road a bit on how this will work once we’ve got it a little more solid on our end.

Edited to add: Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what. If your group online is too small, you’ll need to invite friends (or pay/beg/sing-songs-to-woo peeps in Lion’s Arch!) to come with you and help you claim the guild hall to own one. Or you could always grow your guild

Grow your Guild? That’s actually a pretty decent slap in the face, Multi guilding has killed smaller growing guilds completely, If people are not tied to a guild in some way briefly then they will never get to know the players, everyone wants all options ready and running so as for GROWING a guild easier said then done. This could be easily fixed by having 1 guild policy and having alliances like GW1.
Members get the chat and benefits of multi guilding without chopping and changing constantly using guilds like a LFG tool. This is imo by far the worst guild/clan system I have seen online to date. People will argue they want to and do roll multiple guilds for what ever reason but that is exactly what Alliances provide but without crippling the creation of guilds along the way. Arenanet needs to seriously look into this because this is after all GUILD wars.

QFT. The guild system is horrible. And mass recruiting is generally not the greatest idea ever. Especially if you have a tight-knit group that’s know each other for years.

Small guild here as well, I guess at most we could muster 10 people. Yet we have been friends mostly for 8+ years. To be able to claim our own guild hall with our own hands even if it takes hours would be an awesome personal thing without having to ask for external help.

And does small guilds being able to claim a guild hall really detract from a 500 person guild’s enjoyment of zerging over everything?
The current guild system already shafts small guilds. We are only able to do Guild Bounty Hunt trainings so we are not able to gain merits. With all people on with have once done a Guild Bounty Tier 1.
Why are activities like Guild Rush which is just some people rushing over a course limited to big guilds?
We are not asking for free handouts, we are willing to put in as much effort if not more than big guilds.
Words like “then join a bigger guild!” or “just invite more people!” or “you shouldn’t be able to get anything at all!” make me sick to my core. Let’s leave guild halls out of that competitive mindset please. We are not 1337 3l173 r41d1ng guilds here with “world first guild halls”.

When you really need help with some mission simply ask help form another guild to help out. If another guild asked our guild for help we would also be willing to help and I think most guilds would.

I have been in a small guild before and when Guild Missions first arrived I was a little sad becouse it was almost impossible to get them and if you unlocked them they where impossible. Now I lead a pretty normal sized guild and I want to have a challangle for me and my guild. I don’t want a map made for 1-3 players where monsters are scaled up alot becouse we happens to be 70 members.

If I would have been in a small guild still I would have been overjoyed to hear that we can get a Guild Hall by only asking people for help. I am also planning of starting a mercenary team in my guild to help out small guilds.

And the thing about claiming a guild hall by our own hands it’s like… Meh… Why not make Dungeons Soloable? I mean I hate playing MMO’s with others! If you are to few, you will need to find people it is that simple. If you want to claim it by your own hands then do it, but I bet that you will have to step up your game.

I am one of those who hopes that GH claiming will be something a Guild can remeber doing for a long time, not just a whoop, smash, bang run.

have you seen what they have done to the Arah (Personal) Story now becouse of people who cant find people to play it with? Man I got so sad when I played it with 4 guildmembers yesterday.

Edgar, I disagree with you when you compare being in a small guild to “does not like to play with others in an MMO”. I PUG with peoples everyday, but being in a 500 person guild would be no different than shouting “LFG!” in the LA town square.

Nobody (at least not me) is asking to dumb down any content. But even in multiplayer games there are people who are shy or introverted. If they don’t want to be in a big guild, why not let them play the game as they want.

The personal story was changed because it well….is supposed to be personal, and while I can choose to have friends accompagny me, I should be able to do it alone if I’d so choose. And no, I usually do these with other people as well

spoj.9672:

Kal Spiro.9745:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

We all know that any size group will be able to start the claiming expedition. ANyone who figures there’s going to be a lockout is dumb. ArenaNet has never implemented a minimum-size lockout in any GW game, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone can try anything solo if they want it.

What this discussion seems to be wanting is for the content to be designed for solos/twobies, then scaled up for larger groups if necessary. That’s horse manure. It’s completely and utter crap and we all freaking know it, eh? If the content is designed for twobies and then told to scale up, guess what? Everyone will do it with twobies – even the largest five hundred-man guilds. Because that’s what it was built for.

The content should be designed for that fifteen-man balance point. Or, if I were to have my perfect-world wish here, it’d be designed for a ten-man team, but either way. If it scales down, it scales down to five and no lower. If a solo or a twobie or three beer buddies from Wuv want to tackle the content, then they can run it below that scaling level and feel even more awesome when they manage to claim what should have taken between two and seven more guys to manage.

But you do not get to scrap the claiming event entirely, or turn it into a lowball milk run. Again, there’s not going to be any “you must have this many in your party to start this event” junk, but if you’re honestly hoping they’ll redesign the event to be built for solos…well, maybe the ‘Guild’ part of Guild Wars isn’t your thing.

So you’re saying that you don’t want us to devalue your sense of accomplishment. However, because we don’t meet ‘x’ size, it’s perfectly fine to devalue ours instead by making us PuG it.

That’s like saying it’s ok to devalue a group’s ability to run dungeons, or high level fractals by making them intentionally soloable. This is meant to be content for groups, for groups of groups even. It’s not quite a raid, but it’s working on it, I suspect.

So yes, it’s ok to “devalue” your accomplishment by forcing you to PuG because you don’t have the necessary numbers to handle it on your own. Someone will always be dissatisfied. Better to have the group of five dissatisfied than the group of hundreds.

Again you are misunderstanding Lanfears intention. We can solo dungeons and fractals but they are designed for 5 man groups. The only ones we cant solo are ones which have player checks (cof p1 gate). This is the kind of thing Lanfear and other small guilds would like to avoid. It doesnt mean the content should be designed for groups that small. It just means it should be possible even if it is incredibly difficult.

Thank you Spoj, that is exactly my point in this particular junction of the topic. People solo, duo, trio specific dungeon paths all the time, yet we aren’t screaming that they are devaluing the accomplishment of 5 man teams. Instead, we’re asking them to make videos of them soloing lupi, or make walk throughs of how to duo Arah so that more of us can give it an attempt.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . Lanfear, if you really are hard pressed for person-power, drop me a line. I absolutely promise not to bearbow.

Lol by all means, bearbow if you please. I’ll drop and blast a water field on you if necessary.

I’m not discriminatory, others can play however they please. Be it bearbow or naked with only a single hand weapon equipped.

Advent Leader.1083:

So… what Lanfear simply means is to have the events completable by n-sizes without any bodily requirements (like stepping on n-switches, etc)?

To an extent yes. But additionally not setting a precedent of 10 or 15 ‘minimum’ in order to achieve it. If they absolutely have to have a minimum, then it should be 5 and if people opt to try it with less then let them, no different than a dungeon or fractal.

That said, this should scale proportionately. Thus if a guild of 100 wants to do it together they can. However, it should not be easier to do it with less people (5 as opposed to 100) and it should not take any less time. It needs to be equally challenging. Yes, this does mean that Anet would need to do some work on their scaling system, but that is not a bad thing. It could improve quite a few existing events to have scaling improved/fixed.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

spoj.9672:

Kal Spiro.9745:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

We all know that any size group will be able to start the claiming expedition. ANyone who figures there’s going to be a lockout is dumb. ArenaNet has never implemented a minimum-size lockout in any GW game, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone can try anything solo if they want it.

What this discussion seems to be wanting is for the content to be designed for solos/twobies, then scaled up for larger groups if necessary. That’s horse manure. It’s completely and utter crap and we all freaking know it, eh? If the content is designed for twobies and then told to scale up, guess what? Everyone will do it with twobies – even the largest five hundred-man guilds. Because that’s what it was built for.

The content should be designed for that fifteen-man balance point. Or, if I were to have my perfect-world wish here, it’d be designed for a ten-man team, but either way. If it scales down, it scales down to five and no lower. If a solo or a twobie or three beer buddies from Wuv want to tackle the content, then they can run it below that scaling level and feel even more awesome when they manage to claim what should have taken between two and seven more guys to manage.

But you do not get to scrap the claiming event entirely, or turn it into a lowball milk run. Again, there’s not going to be any “you must have this many in your party to start this event” junk, but if you’re honestly hoping they’ll redesign the event to be built for solos…well, maybe the ‘Guild’ part of Guild Wars isn’t your thing.

So you’re saying that you don’t want us to devalue your sense of accomplishment. However, because we don’t meet ‘x’ size, it’s perfectly fine to devalue ours instead by making us PuG it.

That’s like saying it’s ok to devalue a group’s ability to run dungeons, or high level fractals by making them intentionally soloable. This is meant to be content for groups, for groups of groups even. It’s not quite a raid, but it’s working on it, I suspect.

So yes, it’s ok to “devalue” your accomplishment by forcing you to PuG because you don’t have the necessary numbers to handle it on your own. Someone will always be dissatisfied. Better to have the group of five dissatisfied than the group of hundreds.

Again you are misunderstanding Lanfears intention. We can solo dungeons and fractals but they are designed for 5 man groups. The only ones we cant solo are ones which have player checks (cof p1 gate). This is the kind of thing Lanfear and other small guilds would like to avoid. It doesnt mean the content should be designed for groups that small. It just means it should be possible even if it is incredibly difficult.

Thank you Spoj, that is exactly my point in this particular junction of the topic. People solo, duo, trio specific dungeon paths all the time, yet we aren’t screaming that they are devaluing the accomplishment of 5 man teams. Instead, we’re asking them to make videos of them soloing lupi, or make walk throughs of how to duo Arah so that more of us can give it an attempt.

If that’s all you want, has it been said that you will be physically gated by size, or that they just expect players to need an arbitrary number of people because it’s hard? I didn’t watch this stream that apparently gave you all the answers and has you raging, so I can’t really say either way.

Kal Spiro.9745:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

spoj.9672:

Kal Spiro.9745:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

We all know that any size group will be able to start the claiming expedition. ANyone who figures there’s going to be a lockout is dumb. ArenaNet has never implemented a minimum-size lockout in any GW game, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone can try anything solo if they want it.

What this discussion seems to be wanting is for the content to be designed for solos/twobies, then scaled up for larger groups if necessary. That’s horse manure. It’s completely and utter crap and we all freaking know it, eh? If the content is designed for twobies and then told to scale up, guess what? Everyone will do it with twobies – even the largest five hundred-man guilds. Because that’s what it was built for.

The content should be designed for that fifteen-man balance point. Or, if I were to have my perfect-world wish here, it’d be designed for a ten-man team, but either way. If it scales down, it scales down to five and no lower. If a solo or a twobie or three beer buddies from Wuv want to tackle the content, then they can run it below that scaling level and feel even more awesome when they manage to claim what should have taken between two and seven more guys to manage.

But you do not get to scrap the claiming event entirely, or turn it into a lowball milk run. Again, there’s not going to be any “you must have this many in your party to start this event” junk, but if you’re honestly hoping they’ll redesign the event to be built for solos…well, maybe the ‘Guild’ part of Guild Wars isn’t your thing.

So you’re saying that you don’t want us to devalue your sense of accomplishment. However, because we don’t meet ‘x’ size, it’s perfectly fine to devalue ours instead by making us PuG it.

That’s like saying it’s ok to devalue a group’s ability to run dungeons, or high level fractals by making them intentionally soloable. This is meant to be content for groups, for groups of groups even. It’s not quite a raid, but it’s working on it, I suspect.

So yes, it’s ok to “devalue” your accomplishment by forcing you to PuG because you don’t have the necessary numbers to handle it on your own. Someone will always be dissatisfied. Better to have the group of five dissatisfied than the group of hundreds.

Again you are misunderstanding Lanfears intention. We can solo dungeons and fractals but they are designed for 5 man groups. The only ones we cant solo are ones which have player checks (cof p1 gate). This is the kind of thing Lanfear and other small guilds would like to avoid. It doesnt mean the content should be designed for groups that small. It just means it should be possible even if it is incredibly difficult.

Thank you Spoj, that is exactly my point in this particular junction of the topic. People solo, duo, trio specific dungeon paths all the time, yet we aren’t screaming that they are devaluing the accomplishment of 5 man teams. Instead, we’re asking them to make videos of them soloing lupi, or make walk throughs of how to duo Arah so that more of us can give it an attempt.

If that’s all you want, has it been said that you will be physically gated by size, or that they just expect players to need an arbitrary number of people because it’s hard? I didn’t watch this stream that apparently gave you all the answers and has you raging, so I can’t really say either way.

I’m not raging. Simply having a lively discussion regarding the topic, and defending my stance. No, nothing definitive has been stated; we’re just working off comments that have been made. Given the comments Colin has posted, some of us smaller guilds don’t have a good feeling. However, we’d like to have these concerns taken into consideration (maybe even addressed). At this point, the last comment was that they have not finalized that number, which makes this discussion all that more important.

Many of these sentiments/concerns about smaller guilds and their inclusion in future content were brought up during the Guild Halls CDI. At that time Chris Whiteside did comment that small guilds (even the ones as small as mine) should not be dismissed/left out simply due to size. Sadly, he is no longer with Anet and I am beginning to wonder if part of the reason for that is due to some of these forthcoming decisions.

Considering that ANet didn’t and, as far as I know, never has addressed the idea of soloing or duoing dungeons as a thing, I would say it’s safe to say that they will equally fail to acknowledge five manning Guild Halls as a thing.

ANet failing to acknowledge it does not in any way mean it can’t be done.

The main problem here is that you’re in the wrong argument. Every time you say, “a five man guild should be able to complete the content,” it gets read as, “the content should be adjusted and balanced for a five man guild.” Dungeons aren’t adjusted, nor balanced for a solo, that’s never been a thing (until Arah personal story change just now.) Therefore if all you want is to not be physically gated, then that should be your argument.

I don’t want entrance to the Guild Hall to be gated behind some arbitrary guild size. Any guild, regardless of size, should be allowed to give it a shot. If they fail because they’re not good/strong enough, then that’s on them. As long as the opportunity isn’t out of their hands then it’s fine.

If that’s what you’re arguing, then I really don’t think anyone here has anything against it.

sigh entitled big guilds against entitled little guilds. Does the complaining ever stop, its getting really exhausting on this forum. Sollution let the bigger guilds help the littler guilds (casual guilds) from know and then to help capture and keep their guildhall. Its a beautiful thing called players reaching out to each other, not so hard.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The main problem here is that you’re in the wrong argument. Every time you say, “a five man guild should be able to complete the content,” it gets read as, “the content should be adjusted and balanced for a five man guild.” Dungeons aren’t adjusted, nor balanced for a solo, that’s never been a thing (until Arah personal story change just now.) Therefore if all you want is to not be physically gated, then that should be your argument.

And that’s an issue with their reading comprehension. I want the content to be doable for all size guilds. Which means that it balances itself around the number of people that enter the instance. Please do not read that as “easier in smaller groups” because that’s not what I am saying either. I don’t want its initial design to be “intended for 10 people” for example. Oh sure its doable with fewer, as long as they don’t throw any body count gimmicks in there. And sure, it’ll scale up if you take more. Although with the current scaling system, that just equates to zerg it down, greater body count = easier. I want a truly dynamic instance, I suppose, but sadly that’s not likely to happen. They are going to design it as ‘x’ number is ideal – similar to dungeons and fractals.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I don’t want entrance to the Guild Hall to be gated behind some arbitrary guild size. Any guild, regardless of size, should be allowed to give it a shot. If they fail because they’re not good/strong enough, then that’s on them. As long as the opportunity isn’t out of their hands then it’s fine.

The problem is, because we know how this is going to be designed (because of how the rest of the game is designed), in a sense it’s going to be. Oh sure, as other’s have pointed out, if you can’t field enough people on your own you can PuG up, but some of us see that as demeaning. As I said before, why is it perfectly ok for smaller guilds to lose out on their sense of achievement?

What’s being asked for can be done. The technology to do so exists. They have the basis for it in their scaling system. It would just take some additional work on their part. Besides, we’d like the scaling system to be fixed anyway.

Kal Spiro.9745:

If that’s what you’re arguing, then I really don’t think anyone here has anything against it.

This is where you’re wrong. Take a look at Devil and few other people’s posts. They honestly feel that if you aren’t “big enough” you shouldn’t be a contender. That by being a contender, we’re diminishing their value, their achievement (which is asinine). Devil has directly stated that this content “needs” to be balanced around at least a 15 man group and then scale up from there. That allowing for smaller groups to complete it would “devalue” his 170 member guild’s accomplishment.

While I’m not a raid person, I’m not saying those groups can’t have, or don’t deserve, content for them to do. I am simply saying that this, the claiming of our guild halls, should not necessarily be “only” for that type of group.