Guild Wars 2

Like how every battle is a dps-race zerg-fest.

Or how you’re usually required to have zerker gear to join dungeons.

Or how the only wanted classes are Guardians, Warriors and Elementalists?

For example, this video is over a year old and the problems are still relevant today.

UI improvements are nice, but should be secondary objectives when the main gameplay is this off track from what their original vision was.

Has anet admitted anything is wrong with their game… hmmm..

nope never

will they admit that Gw2 was pretty broken and flawed when Gw3 comes out? Without a doubt yes.

Will Anet stay afloat long enough to convince NCSoft to give them another 7 years to try and get it right? I’m not going to be surprised if the answer ends up as a no.

Swish.2463:

Has anet admitted anything is wrong with their game… hmmm..

nope never

Seriously? I’m honestly looking for a link where I can see them admit that, yes there is a problem and yes, they are going to fix it. The fact that I can’t find anything is what has got me worried.

Well… http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/September_2014_Feature_Pack/Balance_changes

I play 4 different classes (Thief, Ranger, Guardian and Elementalist) and I must say that I never been in a group where they only wanted Guardians, Warriors or Elementalists. In fact, my Guardian and my Elementalist are probably less played than my other two. After 2 years of playing, I find my Thief being the best in all situation(Dungeon, Fractals, WvWvW, tPvP) of the game since it’s the one I’ve mastered the most and I ran with all zerker gear only once and it was doing poorly in too much situations(sPvP would be different since the stats don’t work the same way). Never once someone rejected me because I was a Thief and not wearing full zerker gear and I never witnessed such things either. Yes maybe those 3 classes are popular today, but that’s also what we used to called “Flavor of the Month Class”. Balances changes are affecting that directly.

The problem with zerker fests are that you have no alternative.
Even if you would to do something else there are no skills for that.
And of course that is on purpose for A-Net to keep build verity under control.

And well…. this leads to zerking because there is no consequence to it.

- Introduce death penalty
- Introduce back monster necros with raising abilities
- Take reviving back except Guardians and Necros
- Give changeable skills

…………….. and here we go… we have a fun game enjoyed by everyone.

I am all for trying different builds and gear set in PvE, dungeons included but the real problem is: PvE and WvW uses the same system. Every change Anet does in PvE, affects and hurts WvW.

Raw damage, berserker, is the effective way to speed run dungeons;
Condition is inefficient for speed run dungeons, slow the process;

Condition is the most effective way to play WvW nowadays;
Being a berserker is a good way to counter conditions, getting the player down as soon as possible before they unleash tons of conditions on you.
Anet nerfs raw damage, people try different alternatives, more efficient, to counter conditions like certain classes and builds and even more conditions.

Honestly, the same way the berserker meta can be a hindrance for PvE, the condition meta can be for WvW and yet Anet keep tweaking, pushing people even more towards it. Will be forever unbalanced if they don’t separate PvE from WvW and that would be just the beginning.

They have and they have stated they are working on it but no ETAs have been given for things like Condition Damage stacking or lack of diversity in PVE.

Part of me thinks that ANet should just bring back the GW1 Class system (minus the secondary profession) and just have each class have specific roles… It would be the best way for them as they know how to do it and can implement a few tweaks to make it work right for GW2.

The video linked got a bit confusing when he started chatting about conditions on the enemies but I get the point he was making. Lots of people despair at the whole “Go Zerk or Go Home” mechanics within the game, and it’s sad that the answer to the question
“What build should I go with for my [Insert Profession]” is always, “Zerker”.

Yawn

I would love nothing more than for ANet to balance the game into a state where I could choose a different build without fearing that I’m simply making life hard for myself.

This may be a bit “out there” but I think the easiest fix for this whole “Zerker” issue, is simply to remove Zerker gear and traits from the game completely and set crit chance and damage based on class and skills… Then we will be forced to choose a different build, thus balancing the game once and for all… As long as the NPC mechanics were also updated to reflect such changes.

But, I guess that is why I’m not a programmer! lol

Thing about this is, your gear set does not determine what “role” you have in a dungeon. You can “support” and “cc” in zerker or any other gear set equally well, so the choice in gear is only in how much damage you want to do. For someone new to dungeons running zerker is probably suicide for their first few times through, but once you learn the dungeons there is almost no reason not to go all out damage since there is no traditional trinity system here. The best way to survive is to avoid damage and not get hit through using the various active mitigations available. Op you are right that this is not a new complaint, but I think a lot of the complaints come about from trying to apply traditional trinity logic to a system that was not designed with a traditional trinity in mind.

Sometimes, when I read such threads, I think people focus too much on finding flaws in the game, than actually enjoying it. And yet they fail mostly proving their point because they tend to forget that every stick has two ends.

Kurrilino.2706:

The problem with zerker fests are that you have no alternative.
Even if you would to do something else there are no skills for that.
And of course that is on purpose for A-Net to keep build verity under control.

And well…. this leads to zerking because there is no consequence to it.

- Introduce death penalty
- Introduce back monster necros with raising abilities
- Take reviving back except Guardians and Necros
- Give changeable skills

…………….. and here we go… we have a fun game enjoyed by everyone.

No! That makes it enjoyable for you!!!!!! You really can’t speak for all of the players. Only remotely interested in one of your suggestions.
BTW, there are many other problems with the game that need to be addressed before any more of the ‘CHINA SYNDROME’ is pushed down our throats.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Thing about this is, your gear set does not determine what “role” you have in a dungeon. You can “support” and “cc” in zerker or any other gear set equally well.

Are there roles in dungeons though? The Unshakable trait effectively removed control as a role, and support is so minor I could hardly call it a role.

Pve threads… Luckily they don’t waste too much time on that.

Tao.5096:

Sometimes, when I read such threads, I think people focus too much on finding flaws in the game, than actually enjoying it. And yet they fail mostly proving their point because they tend to forget that every stick has two ends.

Believe me, I’ve tried very hard to enjoy this game, but I just can’t make myself enjoy being forced to play one way and one way only. A little variety goes a long way.

If you enjoy the zerker-zerg gameplay, more power to you, but many others want something more than that, which is what we were promised before the game came out.

Gonna speak for only dungeons..

- Increase mob overall damage slightly and other tweaks. (Think again before going full zerk gear)
- Remove in-boss-fight reviving. (High cooldown skills only able to revive)
- Increase downed penalty in boss fights. ( ex: if you down again in 60 sec , you will be defeated)
- Remove trash mob skipping. (They will follow you wherever you go)
- Add gating system. You can’t advance further in dungeon before you kill certain mobs.
- Reduce amount of trash mob in dungeons.
- Make some of the boss abilities un-dodgeable.
- Make trash killing rewarding. (More loot chance – compared open world monsters)
- Increase daily dungeon complete reward.

Go full zerk – rush – rush – rush, = farm- farm – farm -farm – grind – grind.

I hate this, very poor design for dungeons.

Gw2 needs challenging instanced content,
Raids and roles.

Kurrilino.2706:

The problem with zerker fests are that you have no alternative.
Even if you would to do something else there are no skills for that.

Guardian Hammer auto-attack gives permanent protection, reducing all incoming damage by 33%. There’s a “tank” skill right there.

Tharomir.6985:

Believe me, I’ve tried very hard to enjoy this game, but I just can’t make myself enjoy being forced to play one way and one way only. A little variety goes a long way.

If you enjoy the zerker-zerg gameplay, more power to you, but many others want something more than that, which is what we were promised before the game came out.

why zerker-zerg?

My dear friend,
I have many chars including various classes. Each one is geared, and none does have zerk gear.
I mostly run in my own spec with my own stats, and I do not lose in dps matter against zerkers, yet my tanking ability is top notch.
Depending on situation, may it be dungeons, fractals or wvw(am alone or not) I choose my utilities and weaponry according to maximize damage in group and to aid my group in specific needs.
Compared to full zerkers, I lose around 50~70 power and 10% crit chance. But it’s meaningless anyway, while I tend to have Fury on every single demand of mine, I do have also high crit chance and my critical damage is on pair with zerker gear.

Yet conclusion is very simple. Those full zerk parties tend to finish their dungeons in mere ~30sec faster if they’ll luckily won’t wipe, than my group which focus on both on damage and survival. And yet the difference is that zerk group pretty often is one shotable while it takes time for mobs to bring me to downed state. Hence I can even face tank bosses.

As summary, unfortunately I don’t see your point as valid, since there are people who don’t really pay attention to what class is in group or what gear you have except maybe condition build, and you can have a walk in the park with them in dungeons.
I know there are those FULL zerk GearCheck blablabla MetaBuild groups, but I ignore them, since they tend to be hotblooded, unfriendly with Pinokio noses

And that’s why I enjoy the game, since I don’t feel one bit being forced to play only one way, or someone’s way which doesn’t suit my taste and playstyle.

Don’t like zerkers or trash skipping? Make your own group and write down your requirements. Like-minded players will join you and zerkers will avoid you.

If you join a group with requirements you don’t fulfill, you can’t complain when you get kicked.

I am not saying there isn’t a problem with the content, but ppl complain about zerking like they are being forced to be one, when the that is completely false. No one is forcing you to be a zerker and join them.

this went off topic qiuckly…

Tharomir.6985:

Like how every battle is a dps-race zerg-fest.

All battles are DPS races (a DPS race is any event where the goal is to Damage a foe enough so that they die before either you die or an arbitrary timer expires). Not all battles are zerg-fests. If the content you are doing is all Zerg-fest content, try playing something else.

Or how you’re usually required to have zerker gear to join dungeons.

Form your own group, or join one of the majority of groups that do not require anything. This is a Learn 2 LFG issue on your part.

Or how the only wanted classes are Guardians, Warriors and Elementalists?

If you are not in a speed clear guild, then this statement is false. If you are in a speed clear guild, then the restriction is imposed by your guildies, not ArenaNet. Take it up with them.

Tharomir.6985:

Like how every battle is a dps-race zerg-fest.

Or how you’re usually required to have zerker gear to join dungeons.

Or how the only wanted classes are Guardians, Warriors and Elementalists?

For example, this video is over a year old and the problems are still relevant today.

UI improvements are nice, but should be secondary objectives when the main gameplay is this off track from what their original vision was.

None of the points you made are true. Produce proof that:

• every battle is a dps race zerg fest
• every dungeon requires you to be zerker
• there are only three desired classes for the entire game
• The original vision is off track

Tharomir.6985:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Thing about this is, your gear set does not determine what “role” you have in a dungeon. You can “support” and “cc” in zerker or any other gear set equally well.

Are there roles in dungeons though? The Unshakable trait effectively removed control as a role, and support is so minor I could hardly call it a role.

That is exactly my point, that the op’s post is unfairly directed towards a gear choice that does not impact anything except how much damage you do or don’t do. I can agree with you that unshakeable makes cc for bosses pointless, I don’t agree however that support is a minor thing. Stability, protection, aegis, blinds, might stacking, giving fury, removing conditions, using a reflect wall, reviving a downed player so on and so forth are all examples of support. The one area of support that is lacking is dedicated healing which allows a person to simply sit still and soak all incoming damage. Again as I said, it’s my opinion that most of the complaints come from using traditional trinity logic in a game system that is not designed around that type of play.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

None of the points you made are true. Produce proof that:

• every battle is a dps race zerg fest
• every dungeon requires you to be zerker
• there are only three desired classes for the entire game
• The original vision is off track

Zerker gear and skill spam if the most efficient way to play, thus it is the most desired. World bosses are defeated with little strategy and no skill. Even the big bad Tequatl is a joke with the smallest amount of organization.

Are you arguing that it would be more efficient to use a different build? Or that someone who makes a build that focuses on support rather than damage is more desirable? The reason the meta exists is because it is the best way to do things.

Tharomir.6985:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

None of the points you made are true. Produce proof that:

• every battle is a dps race zerg fest
• every dungeon requires you to be zerker
• there are only three desired classes for the entire game
• The original vision is off track

Zerker gear and skill spam if the most efficient way to play, thus it is the most desired. World bosses are defeated with little strategy and no skill. Even the big bad Tequatl is a joke with the smallest amount of organization.

Are you arguing that it would be more efficient to use a different build? Or that someone who makes a build that focuses on support rather than damage is more desirable? The reason the meta exists is because it is the best way to do things.

I am arguing that the meta is not the only way to do things, and that if you are dissatisfied with the meta, you do not need to fit the meta.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I am arguing that the meta is not the only way to do things, and that if you are dissatisfied with the meta, you do not need to fit the meta.

Certainly you can do things differently. But if all you are doing is handicapping yourself, then what is the point? I’d rather have different ways of playing this game be a viable option, and I see no reason why anyone wouldn’t want that.

Bunmaster.9734:

Don’t like zerkers or trash skipping? Make your own group and write down your requirements. Like-minded players will join you and zerkers will avoid you.

If you join a group with requirements you don’t fulfill, you can’t complain when you get kicked.

I am not saying there isn’t a problem with the content, but ppl complain about zerking like they are being forced to be one, when the that is completely false. No one is forcing you to be a zerker and join them.

If you really believe what you said,

You are new to mmo games.
or
You always playing with your friends and never pug.

If game allows easier, everyone forced to do that.
If you gonna form your own group aganist this, probably you will find none.

ex for gw2 :
LFM Dungeon – Zerg or GTFO
Non-zerker guy here = kick – insult – call names
You are wasting my 20 second – F…………………………..

%90 of community behave like this or accepting this.

and no i don’t have friends to play with me all time.

Fivona.5061:

Bunmaster.9734:

Don’t like zerkers or trash skipping? Make your own group and write down your requirements. Like-minded players will join you and zerkers will avoid you.

If you join a group with requirements you don’t fulfill, you can’t complain when you get kicked.

I am not saying there isn’t a problem with the content, but ppl complain about zerking like they are being forced to be one, when the that is completely false. No one is forcing you to be a zerker and join them.

If you really believe what you said,

You are new to mmo games.
or
You always playing with your friends and never pug.

If game allows easier, everyone forced to do that.
If you gonna form your own group aganist this, probably you will find none.

ex for gw2 :
LFM Dungeon – Zerg or GTFO
Non-zerker guy here = kick – insult – call names
You are wasting my 20 second – F…………………………..

%90 of community behave like this or accepting this.

and no i don’t have friends to play with me all time.

Why would you expect that people would welcome you when they were specific in what they are looking for and you don’t fall into that requirement set. That’s a bit like applying for a job that you clearly don’t meet the qualifications for then being upset when they don’t hire you. Whenever I post a lfg advertising “anyone welcome” it always fills up very quickly, so forgive me if I simply don’t believe your claim that 90% of the community behaves that way.

Fivona.5061:

Bunmaster.9734:

Don’t like zerkers or trash skipping? Make your own group and write down your requirements. Like-minded players will join you and zerkers will avoid you.

If you join a group with requirements you don’t fulfill, you can’t complain when you get kicked.

I am not saying there isn’t a problem with the content, but ppl complain about zerking like they are being forced to be one, when the that is completely false. No one is forcing you to be a zerker and join them.

If you really believe what you said,

You are new to mmo games.
or
You always playing with your friends and never pug.

If game allows easier, everyone forced to do that.
If you gonna form your own group aganist this, probably you will find none.

ex for gw2 :
LFM Dungeon – Zerg or GTFO
Non-zerker guy here = kick – insult – call names
You are wasting my 20 second – F…………………………..

%90 of community behave like this or accepting this.

and no i don’t have friends to play with me all time.

Hey Non-Zerker here. I PuG regularly. I get into (or start groups) that fill up quickly. We go through the content and finish it. No issues, everyone’s happy.

I’m failing to see your issue. I sincerely doubt that 90% of the community is like you describe. A thought occurs though. Have you tried starting your own groups?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

None of the points you made are true. Produce proof that:

• The original vision is off track

Take 3 minutes and watch this video. They’re done talking at 2:45 and the rest is just gameplay. The only thing they said that I agree with is the art direction.

Tharomir.6985:

Swish.2463:

Has anet admitted anything is wrong with their game… hmmm..

nope never

Seriously? I’m honestly looking for a link where I can see them admit that, yes there is a problem and yes, they are going to fix it. The fact that I can’t find anything is what has got me worried.

Here’s one for you: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/WvW-Titles-3/first#post2437293

They still haven’t changed, and looking at the date on that post I’m beginning to doubt they ever will.

The closest thing to admitting anything wrong is when ANet Devs say “they have to improve how the players understand the game systems”.

In other words: player ignorance is the only problem GW2 has; can’t be anything the Devs implemented.

Kaos.9162:

Tharomir.6985:

Swish.2463:

Has anet admitted anything is wrong with their game… hmmm..

nope never

Seriously? I’m honestly looking for a link where I can see them admit that, yes there is a problem and yes, they are going to fix it. The fact that I can’t find anything is what has got me worried.

Here’s one for you: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/WvW-Titles-3/first#post2437293

They still haven’t changed, and looking at the date on that post I’m beginning to doubt they ever will.

So nothing about actual gameplay problems? Just silly achievements?