Guild Wars 2

Alright so I haven’t played since 1 month after release.

At that point in time, everyone was doing ranged on engi/ele/mesmer/necro/ranger and melee on thief/warrior/guardian.

I came back to the game recently and have been doing a lot of research, apparently every class in the game minus ele and engineer are melee and build completely glass cannon.

This worries me because it seems like there is very little distinction between the classes aside from buffs. Necromancers don’t use pets and don’t attack from ranged, rangers don’t use range, Guardians and warriors don’t build “bruiser-like” (partially tanky) in order to absorb hits, and in general classes just wear the same type of gear, completely 100% glass cannon.

I guess this is the inherent problem with a no-trinity game… but it seems to just make everything feel the same, with the only exception seeming to be mesmer (shatter build) in terms of being “different”.

The only thing keeping people from bringing 5 eles to a group is buffs (such as banners)… at least for the most part.

I’m ok with no trinity, it just feels like everyone is doing the same stuff right now. I just can’t believe even -ranger- is most effective in melee. I mean, come on.

I also did not play for ages, but remember that Ranger =/= range fighter….Aragon is ranger and he use Sword

Welcome to Meta Hype, where everyone are the same, do the same, think the same, act the same.
The only difference is Nickname.

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

Only thing ppl do is group up on boss and nuke then help downed ppl….ofc every1 is in full zerk gear….that is the tactic for 90% of bosses lol…../sad

Vaske.2817:

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

Only thing ppl do is group up on boss and nuke then help downed ppl….ofc every1 is in full zerk gear….that is the tactic for 90% of bosses lol…../sad

Yeah, sadly the AI of dungeons is awful at best, broken at worst. It’s kind of doubtful it will ever be fixed. :/

The meta has evolved to full glass canon since the dungeons are now mastered by a lot of people. Remember that the dungeons were designed so that anyone with any type of gear could complete them. And since glass canons builds are the ones that clear the content the fastest… well you see what happened.

To add insult to injury, condition glass canon builds can’t even match berserker builds because :

• condition damage is backloaded (=> kill stuff slower)
• you can achieve higher dps with direct damage than with condition damage in an optimised group (which is the most desperating thing that happened to GW2)

What I encourage you is to think hard and propose and idea that would make condition damage competitive in PvE without breaking the PvP balance .

Also, welcome back in the game

Has the meta always been this bland?

Sadly, yes.

Anet are determined to keep it as simple as possible with little to no variety. Reason Esports, apparently by keeping it as simple as possible, it means there Esports is very, very easy to balance.

In a game featuring action combat where you’re able to outplay your opponent, it doesn’t really matter what you do. Choose anything you want. Those who can will opt for a melee glass cannon play style while those who can’t will rely on a more defensive approach. When it comes to melee vs ranged, melee is generally riskier and balanced for that, thus it has a higher payout (damage).

The only way this will change is if they increase the challenge to a point where the majority can’t handle it, which will also mean that those that previously relied on defense would be screwed. Alternatively, they could rely on cheap mechanics seen in traditional MMOs, but that would turn the game into being gear based rather than skill based.

Take a game like Dark Souls for example, featuring challenging action combat. If you got the skill, you can melee glass cannon. Those who can’t stack defense.

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

I definitely don’t remember them being difficult, ever.

My issue is mostly that every class seems the same now, moreso than the lack of difficulty. I play this game knowing full well how casual it is compared to the other MMO’s I play.

I’d just like the classes to be somewhat different, have some distinctions. I don’t know why but when I look at other people in dungeon runs I get a little bored watching everyone run and zerg everything in melee, even rangers… It’s like, why did I even bother picking anything other than the #1 melee DPS (which I assume is Thief atm) if I’m going to play my guardian or warrior. They play the same, the rotations are obviously incredibly simple (I play EQ2 and my main has 82 buttons on that game).

I know this game isn’t about min/maxing, and I’m not trying to put off the vibe that that is what I’m looking for, it’s just I don’t like feeling like I’m filling the same role as everyone else but I’m less efficient at it because of my class, even though I’m doing the -exact same thing-.

Also, my #1 gripe is that I’m an altoholic. Why would I make an alt if it’s going to play the same as my other characters? Oh hey, let me just level up this ranger so it can play -exactly- the same as my warrior! Fun!

Semune.1952:

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

I definitely don’t remember them being difficult, ever.

My issue is mostly that every class seems the same now, moreso than the lack of difficulty. I play this game knowing full well how casual it is compared to the other MMO’s I play.

I’d just like the classes to be somewhat different, have some distinctions. I don’t know why but when I look at other people in dungeon runs I get a little bored watching everyone run and zerg everything in melee, even rangers… It’s like, why did I even bother picking anything other than the #1 melee DPS (which I assume is Thief atm) if I’m going to play my guardian or warrior. They play the same, the rotations are obviously incredibly simple (I play EQ2 and my main has 82 buttons on that game).

I know this game isn’t about min/maxing, and I’m not trying to put off the vibe that that is what I’m looking for, it’s just I don’t like feeling like I’m filling the same role as everyone else but I’m less efficient at it because of my class, even though I’m doing the -exact same thing-.

Also, my #1 gripe is that I’m an altoholic. Why would I make an alt if it’s going to play the same as my other characters? Oh hey, let me just level up this ranger so it can play -exactly- the same as my warrior! Fun!

Just going off your ranger and warr example, they don’t play the same specially dealing with Sword mechanics on ranger.

Pre stacking might and fury, there’s also proper pet management, handling reflects etc. are also possibilities for rangers.

Try playing it properly first before coming to a conclusion that your ranger plays exactly the same as your warr.

If you can kill it fast enough, you don’t need much in the defense department. Skill and an understanding of boss fight mechanics helps a lot, too. Naturally, full berserker is the best way to go for the best damage. It’s perfect the way it is.

what meta, i don’t see any meta….just some particle effects in a small place with ppl thinking they are pro players just because they still press 11111111 all the time……

OP is again one of the players who bashes the current situation before even realizing what happens and how stuff works.

OP you don’t need to build tanky (read: equipping gear with passive defense) to be able to tank. If you are a warrior or guardian you have plenty of ways to mitigate damage with blocks, blinds, etc. Due to the same issue control and support is mostly unaffected by gear (reflects scale with Precision and Ferocity) so you can aid your team mates even if you build full glass cannon.

The reason is people not bringing 5 eles is the different kind of support and control that other classes brings and the utility they can offer, like Portal from mesmers.

Melee is stronger since it has more risk involved in it (mind you, balance is based on PvP). If you are stay at 1200 range and pew pew or just kite the boss why you should do equal or more damage than the guy who stands in the enemy face?

How can you play your ranger the same as your warrior? Of course if you look at everything on a macro level this game is stupidly easy since you just push buttons like in Pong. C’mon man …

ps: forget how to WoW and learn to how to GW2 <3

sorudo.9054:

what meta, i don’t see any meta….just some particle effects in a small place with ppl thinking they are pro players just because they still press 11111111 all the time……

The #1 skill are on auto attack by default, you dont need to press it repeatedly. But i find it funny how special players think they are better when they range everything in tanky gear. Oh the irony …

sorudo.9054:

what meta, i don’t see any meta….just some particle effects in a small place with ppl thinking they are pro players just because they still press 11111111 all the time……

I don’t bother with every of those hilarious “bash the zerker” threads. They come in pair with weekend special “nerf turret engi” or “stealth is op” season finale.

However the quoted post is one of those special when I can block the player and never play with the clown before he destroys my fun.

Dalanor.5387:

OP you don’t need to build tanky (read: equipping gear with passive defense) to be able to tank. If you are a warrior or guardian you have plenty of ways to mitigate damage with blocks, blinds, etc.

I disagree with this statement. If you do arah with an unoptimised group, eventually, you’ll run out of dodges/blind/blocks before the encounter is over. The number of people who can dodge absolutely everything and solo paths is very small especially for Arah.

A glass canon character in a group of glass canon will easily survive because of how quickly stuff die before all his survival tools expire. A glass canon in a group of cleric players will struggle to survive because he will run out of dodges long before the end of the encounter…. unless he can solo the entire path.

However soloers are a really tiny minority of the playerbase and not everything can be soloed.

segman.3560:

sorudo.9054:

what meta, i don’t see any meta….just some particle effects in a small place with ppl thinking they are pro players just because they still press 11111111 all the time……

I don’t bother with every of those hilarious “bash the zerker” threads. They come in pair with weekend special “nerf turret engi” or “stealth is op” season finale.

However the quoted post is one of those special when I can block the player and never play with the clown before he destroys my fun.

I think he refers to open world content, it takes a whole new level of delusional if there are people that thinks dungeon are just spam 1 all the time.

Lifestealer.4910:

segman.3560:

sorudo.9054:

what meta, i don’t see any meta….just some particle effects in a small place with ppl thinking they are pro players just because they still press 11111111 all the time……

I don’t bother with every of those hilarious “bash the zerker” threads. They come in pair with weekend special “nerf turret engi” or “stealth is op” season finale.

However the quoted post is one of those special when I can block the player and never play with the clown before he destroys my fun.

I think he refers to open world content, it takes a whole new level of delusional if there are people that thinks dungeon are just spam 1 all the time.

But he talks about particle effects in small places, sounds like corner stacking to me which is so 2k14.

i agree that it is bland, but if that is true for you why play it? there’s no rule that says you have to follow the meta and nothing comes to mind that COULDN’T be completed using non-meta builds as long as you played to those build’s strengths and knew what you were doing.

You stopped after one month? You sound like one of those game locust. No offense.

The only bland thing is : you also decided to use zerker equip. So what other people wear zerker. It’s how you play the game the matter. Or you dont have money to buy zerker equip ?

there is literally no reason to build anything but dmg

Semune.1952:

Alright so I haven’t played since 1 month after release.

At that point in time, everyone was doing ranged on engi/ele/mesmer/necro/ranger and melee on thief/warrior/guardian.

I came back to the game recently and have been doing a lot of research, apparently every class in the game minus ele and engineer are melee and build completely glass cannon.

This worries me because it seems like there is very little distinction between the classes aside from buffs. Necromancers don’t use pets and don’t attack from ranged, rangers don’t use range, Guardians and warriors don’t build “bruiser-like” (partially tanky) in order to absorb hits, and in general classes just wear the same type of gear, completely 100% glass cannon.

I guess this is the inherent problem with a no-trinity game… but it seems to just make everything feel the same, with the only exception seeming to be mesmer (shatter build) in terms of being “different”.

The only thing keeping people from bringing 5 eles to a group is buffs (such as banners)… at least for the most part.

I’m ok with no trinity, it just feels like everyone is doing the same stuff right now. I just can’t believe even -ranger- is most effective in melee. I mean, come on.

Yes the pve meta consist of nothing more than full dps zerker/assassin characters. Spvp in the other hand has more diversity of builds.

gear =/= build

learn to play

segman.3560:

gear =/= build

learn to play

Gear is an integral part of a build : One does not simply run a frostbow staff build with a cleric armour.

Next time try to be more constructive with your posts.

VodCom.6924:

segman.3560:

gear =/= build

learn to play

Gear is an integral part of a build : One does not simply run a frostbow staff build with a cleric armour.

Next time try to be more constructive with your posts.

Trust me, there are more people doing this than you can imagine …

Dalanor.5387:

VodCom.6924:

segman.3560:

gear =/= build

learn to play

Gear is an integral part of a build : One does not simply run a frostbow staff build with a cleric armour.

Next time try to be more constructive with your posts.

Trust me, there are more people doing this than you can imagine …

Oh I trust you no worry about that. My point is still valid though : what stat you choose for your gear is an integral part of your build and its efficiency.

VodCom.6924:

segman.3560:

gear =/= build

learn to play

Gear is an integral part of a build : One does not simply run a frostbow staff build with a cleric armour.

Next time try to be more constructive with your posts.

Are you my dad? Because you act like that and it feels awkward.

A gear CAN BE integral part of the build. For meta pve builds some of them can work with soldiers or knight eq but your traits and skills still be the same.

And about being constructive – this is yet another bash the zerker thread with 0 understanding of the game from the op, contributing nothing to the “problem” which it isn’t and explaining ppl why they’re wrong with their brilliant trinity ideas.

The discussion about meta and trinity has been discussed long after this horse died. The problem is the encounters not builds or gear. You can already see new challenges coming to the game with condition vulnerable husks for example so looks like anet understands where the problem is.

And again… the game is over 2 years old, the content has been played so many times it can’t be challenging anymore at current state. I am sure after expansion releases you’ll see a bagillion of threads about nerfing encounters, events or other activities and after a month and more ppl will learn and go through the new content like they do now with old stuff.

Passive aspects of characters do not make content interesting or exciting. How can they? What makes content interesting is what players do. Some players just cannot accept the paradigm in use because of preconceptions from other games.

If the content is bland, which is the case with some dungeon fights, then the content is bland. If that same content was not bland within the first month from launch, that was because more people did not know what they were doing. No content can survive 2+ years of continuous use with player excitement levels intact.

And while stats are an integral part of build, this is so only as far as the conditions/power and defense/offense axes go. That was the intent and it’s what we’ve got. Some people, again, just cannot let go of wanting to tank and heal.

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

No back when people had fun while figuring out dungeons and werent kicked from groups for not having full zerk builds.

Games are always more fun when they are new, because everything is new and exiting. You can have a lot of fun wiping in dungeons because everybody does.

Right now GW2 is basically in a global farm mode where everything is figured out and optimized to death and people run whatever content they run for the hundredth time.

Arkinos.7245:

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

No back when people had fun while figuring out dungeons and werent kicked from groups for not having full zerk builds.

Games are always more fun when they are new, because everything is new and exiting. You can have a lot of fun wiping in dungeons because everybody does.

Right now GW2 is basically in a global farm mode where everything is figured out and optimized to death and people run whatever content they run for the hundredth time.

Same as every other MMO. In the end, everything becomes either a farm or dies. Good news : there are tons and tons of farming methods in GW2.

Izaya.2906:

Semune.1952:

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

I definitely don’t remember them being difficult, ever.

My issue is mostly that every class seems the same now, moreso than the lack of difficulty. I play this game knowing full well how casual it is compared to the other MMO’s I play.

I’d just like the classes to be somewhat different, have some distinctions. I don’t know why but when I look at other people in dungeon runs I get a little bored watching everyone run and zerg everything in melee, even rangers… It’s like, why did I even bother picking anything other than the #1 melee DPS (which I assume is Thief atm) if I’m going to play my guardian or warrior. They play the same, the rotations are obviously incredibly simple (I play EQ2 and my main has 82 buttons on that game).

I know this game isn’t about min/maxing, and I’m not trying to put off the vibe that that is what I’m looking for, it’s just I don’t like feeling like I’m filling the same role as everyone else but I’m less efficient at it because of my class, even though I’m doing the -exact same thing-.

Also, my #1 gripe is that I’m an altoholic. Why would I make an alt if it’s going to play the same as my other characters? Oh hey, let me just level up this ranger so it can play -exactly- the same as my warrior! Fun!

Just going off your ranger and warr example, they don’t play the same specially dealing with Sword mechanics on ranger.

Pre stacking might and fury, there’s also proper pet management, handling reflects etc. are also possibilities for rangers.

Try playing it properly first before coming to a conclusion that your ranger plays exactly the same as your warr.

Coming from other MMOs, especially EQ with 80 buttons, they play the same to me. Management of the pet and prestacking buffs are such simple mechanics that it’s still the same thing. The thing I want out of this game, because of its simplicity, is more role defined classes. I want my alt ranger to be a bow character, I want my necromancer to be a staff character that saps life from afar and conditions an enemy, I want my guardian and warrior to be bruisers, I want my thief to be glass cannon high risk/high reward.

The buttons I press in this game, and what order, could never be complex enough for me to ever pay attention to them, all the rotations are extremely simple. I want diversity in how they play, because I enjoy playing alts. Why would I play a warrior then log on to a ranger? I may use different button combinations, but in the end, it’s the same playstyle.

It could’ve been fixed, but Anet didn’t want to. There have been so many threads with constructive feedback, but they simply ignored it. They shifted their focus elsewhere and abandoned changing dungeons. I wouldn’t expect any changes to them with the release of HoT either. It’s the main reason i stopped doing dungeons, because why should i care about them if Anet doesn’t?

Semune.1952:

Alright so I haven’t played since 1 month after release.

At that point in time, everyone was doing ranged on engi/ele/mesmer/necro/ranger and melee on thief/warrior/guardian.

I came back to the game recently and have been doing a lot of research, apparently every class in the game minus ele and engineer are melee and build completely glass cannon.

This worries me because it seems like there is very little distinction between the classes aside from buffs. Necromancers don’t use pets and don’t attack from ranged, rangers don’t use range, Guardians and warriors don’t build “bruiser-like” (partially tanky) in order to absorb hits, and in general classes just wear the same type of gear, completely 100% glass cannon.

I guess this is the inherent problem with a no-trinity game… but it seems to just make everything feel the same, with the only exception seeming to be mesmer (shatter build) in terms of being “different”.

The only thing keeping people from bringing 5 eles to a group is buffs (such as banners)… at least for the most part.

I’m ok with no trinity, it just feels like everyone is doing the same stuff right now. I just can’t believe even -ranger- is most effective in melee. I mean, come on.

EVERY GAME has a DPS focused Meta that limits your variety if you want to play within it.

Even trinity games have tanks/healers often opting to slip in as much dps as possible when they find they have extra time/resources to do so. That’s the name of the game, you eek out every little bit you can manage, that’s meta.

EQ we even convinced devs to give clerics heals that had damage componants, basically we had a “Nuke the target and it heals their target” (the tank) and a “heal your target and nuke their target” (heal tank nuke the boss). Shamans/druids were always tossing DoTs and damage from the beginning of the game as well. Tanks usually wore their 2handers even though it was much less defensively sound but they did it because the Riposte damage was very high such that they could actually land top 10 out of 54 on the DPS charts if they were properly buffed.

DCUO we did the same thing.

DPS has always been a focus.

HOWEVER, DPS is NOT the primary focus. You bring enough defense THEN stack the DPS. This is why for many paths you’ll see Thief in the speed run. For casual/daily clears Guardians are almost always wanted. Mesmers can be great. Energy sigils are regularly used. Vigor traits are often present. People build to survive, they just cut out anything that’s superfluous.

The Support/Control/Damage trinity of this game is alive and well. Look at a speed run. You’ll have Ice Bows for the Deep Freeze, then Mes/Thief unloading the defiant stacks asap to load up the Deep Freeze again fi the fight lasts longer. Support is not about healing as much as it is about damage/effect prevention. I add Effect because of Stability, it’s huge when it’s used. Guardians are top dog here, Aegis Rotation on say Melandru makes meleeing a breeze if your guard is good. Properly placed blinds are great too, Thief/Engi/guard/Ele laying down blinds renders enemies useless.

All of those tools are at a loss of DPS, thief has to use offhand pistol for blind/defiant stripping. Mesmers shatter illusions for defiant stripping and have to drop mantras for more phantasms/feedback/portal/blink and other stuff. Guardians build to drop like 30% less damage when they’re going support. Engi will be dropping EG which has one of the highest dps abilities in the game “Acid Bomb”.

Support/Control come first. DPS simply comes in after. The game is designed such though that it allows you to go mostly DPS focused. The requirements to set up for support/control are pretty small. No reason not to wear zerk/assassin/sinister gear. No reason not to trait mainly in your power/prec trait trees. No reason to grab non damage focused sigil/runes. Because you can do most of your support/control with weapon choices and utilities, with a few trait swaps.

I’d highly encourage you to go and play with a truly meta team, not your LFG Speed runs, but I mean a true speed run group. The kind of group that is competing for record times. I think it’d be quite eye opening on how defined the roles of each professiona nd player in the group is. Even 2 Eles in these groups will have distinctly different roles, one being a might/vuln stacker and probably helping with some projectile defense and the other laying blind fields and fire fields while they rain fire with staff, when needed they’ll even swap water to toss down a field for blasts or condi removal.

GW2 is great in that simply a weapon change can completely change the dynamic in which you play.

The PvE meta is berserker or GTFO, unfortunately. WvW and PvP are more varied, but you often see pure berserker builds there, too.

Semune.1952:

Izaya.2906:

Semune.1952:

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

I definitely don’t remember them being difficult, ever.

My issue is mostly that every class seems the same now, moreso than the lack of difficulty. I play this game knowing full well how casual it is compared to the other MMO’s I play.

I’d just like the classes to be somewhat different, have some distinctions. I don’t know why but when I look at other people in dungeon runs I get a little bored watching everyone run and zerg everything in melee, even rangers… It’s like, why did I even bother picking anything other than the #1 melee DPS (which I assume is Thief atm) if I’m going to play my guardian or warrior. They play the same, the rotations are obviously incredibly simple (I play EQ2 and my main has 82 buttons on that game).

I know this game isn’t about min/maxing, and I’m not trying to put off the vibe that that is what I’m looking for, it’s just I don’t like feeling like I’m filling the same role as everyone else but I’m less efficient at it because of my class, even though I’m doing the -exact same thing-.

Also, my #1 gripe is that I’m an altoholic. Why would I make an alt if it’s going to play the same as my other characters? Oh hey, let me just level up this ranger so it can play -exactly- the same as my warrior! Fun!

Just going off your ranger and warr example, they don’t play the same specially dealing with Sword mechanics on ranger.

Pre stacking might and fury, there’s also proper pet management, handling reflects etc. are also possibilities for rangers.

Try playing it properly first before coming to a conclusion that your ranger plays exactly the same as your warr.

Coming from other MMOs, especially EQ with 80 buttons, they play the same to me. Management of the pet and prestacking buffs are such simple mechanics that it’s still the same thing. The thing I want out of this game, because of its simplicity, is more role defined classes. I want my alt ranger to be a bow character, I want my necromancer to be a staff character that saps life from afar and conditions an enemy, I want my guardian and warrior to be bruisers, I want my thief to be glass cannon high risk/high reward.

The buttons I press in this game, and what order, could never be complex enough for me to ever pay attention to them, all the rotations are extremely simple. I want diversity in how they play, because I enjoy playing alts. Why would I play a warrior then log on to a ranger? I may use different button combinations, but in the end, it’s the same playstyle.

Played Bard from start of original EQ for a good 10+ years (ok it’s 15 but I hate admitting it haha ) I hear ya on the amount of buttons, I was sitting at over 100 IIRC, all the different trinkets I picked up, all the AAs and skills, not to mention songs and socials (in game macros).

Trinity games like EQ are certainly a different breed, and esp EQ which is quite old school with it’s amount of options (you’ll see a huge dropoff in amount of skills and what not in newer games in general in my experience).

GW2 does have defined roles though. As i stated above, different professions will slot into a different role when you’re actually playing meta because each profession can cover someone elses weaknesses.

The one thing I hear ya on is lack of range combat… now I actually enjoy the balance of being able to range but it being bad enough that you’re encouraged to go into the “danger zone” and melee. I like it, but I can see older MMO players who are used to the idea of ranged combat being very very viable being a little upset.

If every class was as Diverse as Guardian then maybe it would be a little more broad. But mostly it’s because of Sheep who flock to a build posted online that claims itself to be the best PvP/WvW/SPvP build, which is something you do when you just wanna be Lazy. I do it with my alts sometimes but with my Thief for example where I have the most experience with I just slot whatever I know works.

your 1st toon was exciting
then it wasn’t …
rinse repeat…..

Semune.1952:

Izaya.2906:

Semune.1952:

Lazaar.9123:

You mean back when people thought dungeons were too hard? People learnt the game.

I definitely don’t remember them being difficult, ever.

My issue is mostly that every class seems the same now, moreso than the lack of difficulty. I play this game knowing full well how casual it is compared to the other MMO’s I play.

I’d just like the classes to be somewhat different, have some distinctions. I don’t know why but when I look at other people in dungeon runs I get a little bored watching everyone run and zerg everything in melee, even rangers… It’s like, why did I even bother picking anything other than the #1 melee DPS (which I assume is Thief atm) if I’m going to play my guardian or warrior. They play the same, the rotations are obviously incredibly simple (I play EQ2 and my main has 82 buttons on that game).

I know this game isn’t about min/maxing, and I’m not trying to put off the vibe that that is what I’m looking for, it’s just I don’t like feeling like I’m filling the same role as everyone else but I’m less efficient at it because of my class, even though I’m doing the -exact same thing-.

Also, my #1 gripe is that I’m an altoholic. Why would I make an alt if it’s going to play the same as my other characters? Oh hey, let me just level up this ranger so it can play -exactly- the same as my warrior! Fun!

Just going off your ranger and warr example, they don’t play the same specially dealing with Sword mechanics on ranger.

Pre stacking might and fury, there’s also proper pet management, handling reflects etc. are also possibilities for rangers.

Try playing it properly first before coming to a conclusion that your ranger plays exactly the same as your warr.

Coming from other MMOs, especially EQ with 80 buttons, they play the same to me. Management of the pet and prestacking buffs are such simple mechanics that it’s still the same thing. The thing I want out of this game, because of its simplicity, is more role defined classes. I want my alt ranger to be a bow character, I want my necromancer to be a staff character that saps life from afar and conditions an enemy, I want my guardian and warrior to be bruisers, I want my thief to be glass cannon high risk/high reward.

The buttons I press in this game, and what order, could never be complex enough for me to ever pay attention to them, all the rotations are extremely simple. I want diversity in how they play, because I enjoy playing alts. Why would I play a warrior then log on to a ranger? I may use different button combinations, but in the end, it’s the same playstyle.

Go play engi then and have a perfect management of cooldowns on all kits and your rifle.

Also, asking to be able to play bear bow, condi etc.(which are in itself the most boring playstyles in the game because of how passive and low risk they are) and saying you get bored about pressing buttons boggles me to no end.

For dungeons, the meta is glass canon, direct damage melee, yes. For pvp and WvW there is much more variety. For open world pve the newer content varies a little, and the older content is so easy it doesn’t matter what you use.

So, is this bland for dungeons? I would argue that it is not as bland as it first seems.

The guild wars trinity was supposed to be damage / support / control. As dungeons stand all players are expected to do damage. Which means that the real trinity is damage + support / damage + control / damage + support + control.

Support I would include as any boon sharing, particularly might and fury and vulnerability on enemies. Unfortunately this game doesn’t really make healing a useful option, however damage mitigation tactics involving reflects and blinds are useful, and sometimes condition cleansing.

The control aspect is less appealing than it might be owing to poor AI (although the sort of mobs we see in the Silverwastes would be interesting in a dungeon). The idea is usually to gather up enemies and hit them all at the same time. To this end guardian greatsword 5 is fantastic, just about everything on a necro is bad.

Some classes have variety better than others. For guardian I will swap between greatsword, sword/focus, scepter/focus and occasionally sword/torch, all the while avoiding the weapons of choice, hammer, because I just don’t like it. I also do a lot of switching around of skills, even in the middle of a dungeon. There are also at least three trait builds I can use and still call myself meta. On the other hand with ranger I have to play spotter and frost spirit, and my only real choice is whether I want to play sword/axe or sword/war horn.

Tl;dr build and weapon variet exist for most classes, just not stat variety.

Oh, and for a while meta used to be 4 warriors and a Mesmer running Citadel of Fire over and over, so at one stage it was worse.

Semune.1952:

I came back to the game recently and have been doing a lot of research, apparently every class in the game minus ele and engineer are melee and build completely glass cannon.

You, sir, have been misinformed.

That or you’re strictly talking about PvE, which I neither know nor care about the meta for. As far as PvP and WvW are concerned, there’s a significant diversity in builds depending on what you’re looking for, both in terms of range v. melee and tanky v. dps. ‘Meta’ is often overrated anyway, and so many roflnubs just use copypasta from metabattle that supposed meta builds are often some of the easiest kills.

Semune.1952:

This worries me because it seems like there is very little distinction between the classes aside from buffs.

This could not be farther from the truth. The only case I could think of where this might be true is comparing a gs/ham warrior and gs/ham guardian or something, but even then they’re both fairly distinct. Other than that… no, the experience and play style for each class is quite unique. If you’re finding that’s not the case, you’re probably doing it wrong.

Semune.1952:

Necromancers don’t use pets and don’t attack from ranged

O_o we’re obviously not fighting the same necros. Especially in WvW there’s a lot of necros rolling w/ staff and other relatively long-ranged auto-attack weapons. It’s true that many pets are laughably kitten in any kind of player v. player scenario, but flesh wurm (esp. for point control in sPvP) and flesh golem (some prefer a transformation ult, but it depends on your preference I think) are both quite good.

Semune.1952:

rangers don’t use range

Not true. Especially since the damage buff, pewpew great bow/gs rangers are everywhere. SB condi/trap builds are also fairly common.

Semune.1952:

Guardians and warriors don’t build “bruiser-like” (partially tanky) in order to absorb hits

sPvP bunker guardian is insane in the right hands. Also quite common build for zerg commanders in WvW, albeit medi dps guardian is also fairly prevalent these days. Warriors… are warriors. There’s some diversity, but it’s one of the most faceroll, cookie-cutter classes in the game. Hambow in all the sPvP and nike warriors (gs/ham or gs/sword+something) in WvW. Warriors have such insane regen and enough innate toughness they can usually go almost full zerk and shrug off all the things. That said, if a warrior does decide to go tank, the dps absorb can be pretty impressive, which isn’t a bad thing in WvW.

Semune.1952:

in general classes just wear the same type of gear, completely 100% glass cannon.

You need to look at more builds if that’s your perception.

Semune.1952:

I guess this is the inherent problem with a no-trinity game… but it seems to just make everything feel the same, with the only exception seeming to be mesmer (shatter build) in terms of being “different”.

The irony in this statement is shatter mesmer (imho) is one of the blandest builds in the game. Maybe if it’s condi staff+sword/pistol shatter, that can be interesting for the shear perplexity lulz in WvW, but… eh. You really need to experiment more tho if this is what you’re feeling. If you’re really looking to be a special snowflake, go condi bunker p/d + sb thief with full dire gear and krait or perplexity runes — you stand apart from the endless masses of vanilla d/p backstabbers and it’s a fun build to run.

Semune.1952:

The only thing keeping people from bringing 5 eles to a group is buffs (such as banners)… at least for the most part.

I’m pretty sure this isn’t even true in PvE, and its definitely false in sPvP and WvW.

Semune.1952:

I’m ok with no trinity, it just feels like everyone is doing the same stuff right now.

Addressed this already, but aside from the moronic ‘ALL ZERK PLOX’ dungeon farm speedruns, this simply isn’t true (I mean, you may feel that way, but the fact is that’s not how it is). There will always be builds that are more popular than others because of lower skill requirement or the occasional flavor of the month ‘balance’ update, but especially in WvW you often find yourself running into builds you wouldn’t have expected, sometimes that are terrible but often that turn out to be quite a challenge to fight.

Semune.1952:

I just can’t believe even -ranger- is most effective in melee. I mean, come on.

???? I don’t know if were playing the same game. Maybe you’re forgetting that great bow does more damage the farther you are from your target? If that’s the case and you’ve been fighting with great bow at mid range, I can understand why you’d think that melee is more effective…. but even then I just… can’t… I don’t understand where this is coming from.

Honestly, with people running glass cannon builds, then proceeding to get downed all the time, support is far more viable then people make it out to be. DPS is increased when members of the party are, yknow, not downed.

yanipheonu.5798:

Honestly, with people running glass cannon builds, then proceeding to get downed all the time, support is far more viable then people make it out to be. DPS is increased when members of the party are, yknow, not downed.

While I disagree in the idea that just because someone is glass that they’re going to go down, if you actively defend yourself you’re fine. Many support’ier builds can make things MUCH easier. It just means it’s slower, and with content as old as it is many people rather do things faster and harder than slower and easier.

Its not a boring meta at all, because the focus is on active gameplay rather than gear.

You have to time your dodges, your blocks, and your blinds, instead of just standing there tanking in your nomad gear,

Semune.1952:

This worries me because it seems like there is very little distinction between the classes aside from buffs. Necromancers don’t use pets and don’t attack from ranged, rangers don’t use range, Guardians and warriors don’t build “bruiser-like” (partially tanky) in order to absorb hits, and in general classes just wear the same type of gear, completely 100% glass cannon.

The most efficient way of getting an enemies health to 0 and clearing the dungeon is to run glass cannon. Defense in this game isn’t needed at medium-ish skill levels. If enemies started hitting harder, players would just get better and go back to speed clearing in max-damage gear.

The simple solution to your problem is don’t play meta. If you don’t like the meta, then just make your own “All welcome” group. Nothing is stopping you from playing the way you want to in this game, and so complaining about the way other players play just wastes your time.

rapthorne.7345:

The PvE meta is berserker or GTFO, unfortunately. WvW and PvP are more varied, but you often see pure berserker builds there, too.

The only place where Berzerker’s is meta is in Dungeon & Fractal Speed Runs.
You don’t have to do speed run if you don’t want to. You can complete every dungeons with whatever gears or build you want.

World Boss meta is Soldier’s and there’s no meta for general openworld content.

Has the meta always been this bland?

I don’t know. I’ve paid no attention to it. I’ve been too busy enjoying the game for the last several years to notice.

I miss the 55hp monk in GW1. :P

what meta? i do what i want and get no complaints from anyone