Guild Wars 2

Durzlla.6295:

Actually from what i’ve checked toughness seemed to be SIGNIFICANTLY better against damage but did nothing against conditions (rightfully so), however should i go up against anything that didn’t really use conditions i just kinda shrugged off anything and everything they do…

Bah. Don’t know who to listen to. I just have to see for myself, I suppose. I just know that several people claim that Toughness is worthless, and that Vitality is simply all that matters.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Durzlla.6295:

Actually from what i’ve checked toughness seemed to be SIGNIFICANTLY better against damage but did nothing against conditions (rightfully so), however should i go up against anything that didn’t really use conditions i just kinda shrugged off anything and everything they do…

Bah. Don’t know who to listen to. I just have to see for myself, I suppose. I just know that several people claim that Toughness is worthless, and that Vitality is simply all that matters.

Well in PVE conditions are very common (and atm condition builds are the “meta”) so it can create the illusion that toughness is bad when people stack nothing but toughness and an offensive stat or two.

Durzlla.6295:

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Durzlla.6295:

Actually from what i’ve checked toughness seemed to be SIGNIFICANTLY better against damage but did nothing against conditions (rightfully so), however should i go up against anything that didn’t really use conditions i just kinda shrugged off anything and everything they do…

Bah. Don’t know who to listen to. I just have to see for myself, I suppose. I just know that several people claim that Toughness is worthless, and that Vitality is simply all that matters.

Well in PVE conditions are very common (and atm condition builds are the “meta”) so it can create the illusion that toughness is bad when people stack nothing but toughness and an offensive stat or two.

What about a Guardian that stacks up tons of Toughness, and then also has Smite Condition, Purging Flames, and Contemplation of Purity for his utilities? :o

My testing wasn’t exactly extensive, but I almost didn’t notice a difference after my thief spec’d into toughness. The opening attack that Hyenas use did about 900 damage (straight damage, no condition damage) before putting 20 points into Shadow Arts (toughness). Afterwards, it did 800 damage. That’s such a small difference that it’s probably within margin of error (IE: normal damage variations).

I then went to a nearby group event and got hit by a normal attack for more than half my life. I could have at least had a good chance at surviving two hits if I’d dumped those 20 points into vitality.

So… I don’t know. Somebody is gonna have to do some more extensive testing. At best, it seems to either reduce damage by something like 3% per 100 toughness or like -1 damage per 2 toughness. Not counting any kind of level scaling.

Maybe defense doesn’t reduce straight damage or a percentage of damage like it does in other games, and instead does something a little less tangible like reduces enemy crit chances against you and/or increases the chance of a glancing blow against you.

StarlightGamer.9560:

My testing wasn’t exactly extensive, but I almost didn’t notice a difference after my thief spec’d into toughness. The opening attack that Hyenas use did about 900 damage (straight damage, no condition damage) before putting 20 points into Shadow Arts (toughness). Afterwards, it did 800 damage. That’s such a small difference that it’s probably within margin of error (IE: normal damage variations).

I then went to a nearby group event and got hit by a normal attack for more than half my life. I could have at least had a good chance at surviving two hits if I’d dumped those 20 points into vitality.

So… I don’t know. Somebody is gonna have to do some more extensive testing. At best, it seems to either reduce damage by something like 3% per 100 toughness or like -1 damage per 2 toughness. Not counting any kind of level scaling.

Maybe defense doesn’t reduce straight damage or a percentage of damage like it does in other games, and instead does something a little less tangible like reduces enemy crit chances against you and/or increases the chance of a glancing blow against you.

Actually…. toughness and vitality scale BETTER at higher levels then lower levels… so you’ll have to do the testing with those ones at max end to get accurate results, and if you’re getting hit by hyenas for 900 damage i’m assuming that it’s in the charr starting zones… because i know my ranger pet hyena does significantly more then 900 damage, more around 1300 give or take 200…

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Durzlla.6295:

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Durzlla.6295:

Actually from what i’ve checked toughness seemed to be SIGNIFICANTLY better against damage but did nothing against conditions (rightfully so), however should i go up against anything that didn’t really use conditions i just kinda shrugged off anything and everything they do…

Bah. Don’t know who to listen to. I just have to see for myself, I suppose. I just know that several people claim that Toughness is worthless, and that Vitality is simply all that matters.

Well in PVE conditions are very common (and atm condition builds are the “meta”) so it can create the illusion that toughness is bad when people stack nothing but toughness and an offensive stat or two.

What about a Guardian that stacks up tons of Toughness, and then also has Smite Condition, Purging Flames, and Contemplation of Purity for his utilities? :o

I wouldn’t suggest stacking that many condition removals since it kinda kittens your utility, but yeah you’d be pretty freaking hard to take down especially seeing as how you are not only in heavy armor but stacking toughness. What i personally do is have a lot of vitality and toughness (about 10% more vit then toughness), and i can shrug off conditions and normal damage fairly easily.

Durzlla.6295:

I wouldn’t suggest stacking that many condition removals since it kinda kittens your utility

Depends on the goal of your build.

Durzlla.6295:

Actually…. toughness and vitality scale BETTER at higher levels then lower levels… so you’ll have to do the testing with those ones at max end to get accurate results, and if you’re getting hit by hyenas for 900 damage i’m assuming that it’s in the charr starting zones… because i know my ranger pet hyena does significantly more then 900 damage, more around 1300 give or take 200…

I’m assuming that you mean that when you get to a higher level, your base HP is higher, which makes vitality’s 10 HP per point not make as big of a difference as it would in the lower levels and that that reduction in effectiveness makes toughness look better?

Or do you mean that, like, when I’m level 80, 200 toughness from the 20 trait points reduces damage by more than it did when I was level 40 with the same 200 toughness? That would seem totally backwards.

In any case, I’m a bit skeptical that toughness is going to increase in effectiveness as I approach the cap. Still, it’s possible that it’s totally okay at level 80. Even if it is, wouldn’t it be nice if the stats were valuable throughout the game instead of just at max level? Especially since this game is apparently about the journey and not the endgame?

The Hyenas in question were in the Fields of Ruin area, level 30-40. My guy was slightly over 40 at the time.

StarlightGamer.9560:

Durzlla.6295:

Actually…. toughness and vitality scale BETTER at higher levels then lower levels… so you’ll have to do the testing with those ones at max end to get accurate results, and if you’re getting hit by hyenas for 900 damage i’m assuming that it’s in the charr starting zones… because i know my ranger pet hyena does significantly more then 900 damage, more around 1300 give or take 200…

I’m assuming that you mean that when you get to a higher level, your base HP is higher, which makes vitality’s 10 HP per point not make as big of a difference as it would in the lower levels and that that reduction in effectiveness makes toughness look better?

Or do you mean that, like, when I’m level 80, 200 toughness from the 20 trait points reduces damage by more than it did when I was level 40 with the same 200 toughness? That would seem totally backwards.

In any case, I’m a bit skeptical that toughness is going to increase in effectiveness as I approach the cap. Still, it’s possible that it’s totally okay at level 80. Even if it is, wouldn’t it be nice if the stats were valuable throughout the game instead of just at max level? Especially since this game is apparently about the journey and not the endgame?

The Hyenas in question were in the Fields of Ruin area, level 30-40. My guy was slightly over 40 at the time.

I used toughness on my gear since i had my first option for it and i can say that as i leveled i was taking less and less damage from enemies instead of more and more, so it seems like toughness works backwards (which is REALLY weird mind you) and it becomes more effective at higher levels, or at least i just noticed it working better at higher levels, hell maybe it’s just a coincidence or something?

To be honest i personally felt like every stat was useful throughout my leveling experience, due to how much i rez people even healing power was useful, however that’s ALL it seems to be good for which is where the problem lies… Granted if you build with vitality and toughness you’ll have like no issues being one of the last men standing to pick people up but that’s besides the point…

PS: That would explain the Hyena damage lol, was thinking it was lv 80 and was just like What in the world…

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Durzlla.6295:

I wouldn’t suggest stacking that many condition removals since it kinda kittens your utility

Depends on the goal of your build.

Eh i guess that’s true….. I know going from my ranger to ele i kinda miss my giant water field of pulsating condition removal, so i may just be spoiled by it being passive lol

Do you mean “less damage” as in things kept hitting you for less as you faced higher-level enemies, or do you mean it was less of your total HP? Because remember that as you level, your base HP goes higher.

Apparently, somebody from Team Legacy found out that, on a 1000 HP hit, 100 Toughness will only reduce it by 30-40 damage. Not sure how they found out, so no idea how accurate it is. Sounds like it’s just as terrible as Healing Power.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Do you mean “less damage” as in things kept hitting you for less as you faced higher-level enemies, or do you mean it was less of your total HP? Because remember that as you level, your base HP goes higher.

Less as in less damage, like undead were hitting me for 900, then i’d level and they’d hit me for like 800 or so, and even taking 50 less damage for every 100 toughness is pretty major, i know one of my friends stacks toughness and when i try to deal damage to him with any non conditions it just flat out doesn’t work, so it may look bad on paper, but it really shines in actual use.

Durzlla.6295:

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Do you mean “less damage” as in things kept hitting you for less as you faced higher-level enemies, or do you mean it was less of your total HP? Because remember that as you level, your base HP goes higher.

Less as in less damage, like undead were hitting me for 900, then i’d level and they’d hit me for like 800 or so, and even taking 50 less damage for every 100 toughness is pretty major, i know one of my friends stacks toughness and when i try to deal damage to him with any non conditions it just flat out doesn’t work, so it may look bad on paper, but it really shines in actual use.

Hrm. We’ll have to see.

Balancing the scaling for Healing Power is a tough one, I would expect. Too little and it becomes a pariah; too high and you’ll see more “dedicated healers” popping up like weeds.

So far as I’ve tested as a Guardian fully specced into Virtues for +30% Boon Duration and in full Cleric gear, between Writ of the Merciful, Symbol of Faith (Regeneration) and Virtue of Resolve passive (with Absolute Resolve), I can see what ANet was talking about when they said Healing Power was a defensive stat, especially when you consider that Regeneration and other HOTs are the only mitigation to DOTs in this game, aside from removals.

Frankly, I will admit that I have horse in the race when I say that Healing Power ratios are too low, especially compared to Condition Damage, e.g. 1400 Healing Power raises Regeneration from 130+ to 210+ hp/s, while 1400 Condition Damage raises Burning from 320+ to 670+ hp/s. Then again, I do understand that ANet wants to keep the fast pace nature of SPVP and combat in general, not something bogged down by “healers”.

From the OP it looks like +healing is more beneficial to the other people you’re healing then it is for healing yourself.

I would guess this is an effort to prevent people being unkillable in small scale (1v1-2) pvp.

That doesn’t mean it couldn’t use a buff.

Mmmmm, I dunno.
I have banners that currently heal for 32.5k for their duration and I think that’s pretty darn good. I still have to craft 3 more exotic Cleric pieces yet… and upgrade my crappy Green lvl80 trinkets, too.
Even if it’s just me doing support in a dungeon no one’s dying, so I think the Healing stat is doing it’s job just fine XD.

~Mewmewcachoo (warrior – CD)

Widow.5849:

Mmmmm, I dunno.
I have banners that currently heal for 32.5k for their duration and I think that’s pretty darn good. I still have to craft 3 more exotic Cleric pieces yet… and upgrade my crappy Green lvl80 trinkets, too.
Even if it’s just me doing support in a dungeon no one’s dying, so I think the Healing stat is doing it’s job just fine XD.

~Mewmewcachoo (warrior – CD)

O.o what’s their duration?! And i know without any healing power my water trident and healing wave heal for a decent amount, but no where near that much!!

Widow.5849:

Mmmmm, I dunno.
I have banners that currently heal for 32.5k for their duration and I think that’s pretty darn good. I still have to craft 3 more exotic Cleric pieces yet… and upgrade my crappy Green lvl80 trinkets, too.
Even if it’s just me doing support in a dungeon no one’s dying, so I think the Healing stat is doing it’s job just fine XD.

~Mewmewcachoo (warrior – CD)

I like you, cause I been wanting to make a support warrior build.

This stems from Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition of all things. The first class I played was the warlord, a support like a cleric but was non-magical, thus used things like shouts and such for the flavor. Rather than magically healing his allies he used his words to motivate them and such to continue the fight and propped them back on their feet. So I been wanting to make a tanky support warrior with runes of mercy and water sigils.

Yeah healing power is just bad, why stack healing when you can stack more power or con. damage and just aoe zerg things down faster?

Widow.5849:

Mmmmm, I dunno.
I have banners that currently heal for 32.5k for their duration and I think that’s pretty darn good. I still have to craft 3 more exotic Cleric pieces yet… and upgrade my crappy Green lvl80 trinkets, too.
Even if it’s just me doing support in a dungeon no one’s dying, so I think the Healing stat is doing it’s job just fine XD.

~Mewmewcachoo (warrior – CD)

But here’s the real question: Without a single point into Healing Power, would you still be able to accomplish your support role?

This thread isn’t about whether going full Heal support Skills and Traits is good or not, but whether you gain any notable benefit by stacking Healing Power.

Healing power is fine the way it is imo. If they made it on par with the other major stats, what would happen is players would try to become dedicated healers. And in many cases other groups would require them. Anet said from the beginning they wanted to do away with healers. So its perfectly reasonable why healing power isn’t as good as the other stats.

Right now no dedicated healer can exist, since healing for teammates is low. Imagine if healing power added a extra 30% healing to abilities. You would see groups asking for: “LF insert class here must have 1500 healing power”.

The removal of the traidtional roles, Tank, Healer, and DPS was good in theory, but in practice, this is what we get. A stat that has very little impact. This game needs a lot of balancing, hopefully in time.

Ojimaru.8970:

Balancing the scaling for Healing Power is a tough one, I would expect. Too little and it becomes a pariah; too high and you’ll see more “dedicated healers” popping up like weeds.

Not necessarily. Remember that each individual skill has it’s own scaling. What I’m specifically asking for is for my self heal to actually scale with Healing Power so that it’s worth using as a defensive stat.

Phy.2913:

From the OP it looks like +healing is more beneficial to the other people you’re healing then it is for healing yourself.

Exactly what I was trying to point out.

Though I’ve noticed that, for Mesmers, the opposite is true, and not in a good way. It’s simply the case that the stat is all around useless for them, rather than having some mild use as a support stat.

Aza.2105:

Healing power is fine the way it is imo. If they made it on par with the other major stats, what would happen is players would try to become dedicated healers.

Try actually reading the post before you respond. And especially remember this:

DIFFERENT ABILITIES SCALE WITH HEALING POWER AT DIFFERENT RATES, AND CAN BE ADJUSTED INDEPENDENTLY

StarlightGamer.9560:

My testing wasn’t exactly extensive, but I almost didn’t notice a difference after my thief spec’d into toughness. …

I run around naked in Orr to save repair costs and I don’t notice a whole lot of difference between being naked and wearing armor.

Everything start’s to indicate that investing in defensive stat’s is essentially nerfing yourself horribly.

1v1 or even in WvW in most situations, people stacking offensive stat’s will vastly come on top of those who don’t.
Simply because it’s way more effective, and the way abilities scale.

The only slightly valid option for being a support is CC.

Also dont forget the horrible lack of contribution you receive when being support during events, even if you are the only one applying boons and regen while removing conditions to 30 people, aslong if you dont do enough damage to mobs, you will end up with bronze or silver.

I’m extremely dissapointed because it turns out to be a brain dead process to build a most efficient character, unless Arenanet start’s to realize it and change’s it.
In short:

I expected GW2 to be more a game of chest, instead it’s currently a game of checkers.

Sydrek.5146:

Everything start’s to indicate that investing in defensive stat’s is essentially nerfing yourself horribly.

1v1 or even in WvW in most situations, people stacking offensive stat’s will vastly come on top of those who don’t.
Simply because it’s way more effective, and the way abilities scale.

The only slightly valid option for being a support is CC.

Also dont forget the horrible lack of contribution you receive when being support during events, even if you are the only one applying boons and regen while removing conditions to 30 people, aslong if you dont do enough damage to mobs, you will end up with bronze or silver.

I’m extremely dissapointed because it turns out to be a brain dead process to build a most efficient character, unless Arenanet start’s to realize it and change’s it.
In short:

I expected GW2 to be more a game of chest, instead it’s currently a game of checkers.

Sigh, from what I have seen, the best players run at least 1 part defensive stats in PvP. That proves a balance of offense and defense > opposite ends of the spectrum.

I have no trouble at all in sPvP running 1 part defense, 2 parts offense.

Sydrek.5146:

Everything start’s to indicate that investing in defensive stat’s is essentially nerfing yourself horribly

Well, except for Vitality, the only defensive stat that actually has real value.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Sydrek.5146:

Everything start’s to indicate that investing in defensive stat’s is essentially nerfing yourself horribly

Well, except for Vitality, the only defensive stat that actually has real value.

True , vitality is somewhat worth it depending on your profession and build.

Pikafan.3792:

Sydrek.5146:

Everything start’s to indicate that investing in defensive stat’s is essentially nerfing yourself horribly.

1v1 or even in WvW in most situations, people stacking offensive stat’s will vastly come on top of those who don’t.
Simply because it’s way more effective, and the way abilities scale.

The only slightly valid option for being a support is CC.

Also dont forget the horrible lack of contribution you receive when being support during events, even if you are the only one applying boons and regen while removing conditions to 30 people, aslong if you dont do enough damage to mobs, you will end up with bronze or silver.

I’m extremely dissapointed because it turns out to be a brain dead process to build a most efficient character, unless Arenanet start’s to realize it and change’s it.
In short:

I expected GW2 to be more a game of chest, instead it’s currently a game of checkers.

Sigh, from what I have seen, the best players run at least 1 part defensive stats in PvP. That proves a balance of offense and defense > opposite ends of the spectrum.

I have no trouble at all in sPvP running 1 part defense, 2 parts offense.

I’m wondering who are those people that you claim are “the best” ?
Especially considering most people in sPvP aren’t even half-decent, so the majority of players running with the popular brain dead offence stat stack are a bad representation of the real effectiveness/potential it has.
You know .. the same people who rely solely on channeled abilities to defeat their opponent, at best have one cc and usually with dmg cd’s for the rest.
Of which the counter is simply to CC during their channel, followed by trying not to fall asleep afterwards.

The key to sPvP (aside of teamwork ofc) is defensive abilities and cc, not defensive stats with the exception in some cases like the person above pointed out, being vitality.

Sydrek.5146:

Pikafan.3792:

Sydrek.5146:

Everything start’s to indicate that investing in defensive stat’s is essentially nerfing yourself horribly.

1v1 or even in WvW in most situations, people stacking offensive stat’s will vastly come on top of those who don’t.
Simply because it’s way more effective, and the way abilities scale.

The only slightly valid option for being a support is CC.

Also dont forget the horrible lack of contribution you receive when being support during events, even if you are the only one applying boons and regen while removing conditions to 30 people, aslong if you dont do enough damage to mobs, you will end up with bronze or silver.

I’m extremely dissapointed because it turns out to be a brain dead process to build a most efficient character, unless Arenanet start’s to realize it and change’s it.
In short:

I expected GW2 to be more a game of chest, instead it’s currently a game of checkers.

Sigh, from what I have seen, the best players run at least 1 part defensive stats in PvP. That proves a balance of offense and defense > opposite ends of the spectrum.

I have no trouble at all in sPvP running 1 part defense, 2 parts offense.

I’m wondering who are those people that you claim are “the best” ?
Especially considering most people in sPvP aren’t even half-decent, so the majority of players running with the popular brain dead offence stat stack are a bad representation of the real effectiveness/potential it has.
You know .. the same people who rely solely on channeled abilities to defeat their opponent, at best have one cc and usually with dmg cd’s for the rest.
Of which the counter is simply to CC during their channel, followed by trying not to fall asleep afterwards.

The key to sPvP (aside of teamwork ofc) is defensive abilities and cc, not defensive stats with the exception in some cases like the person above pointed out, being vitality.

Yeah….. Idk about you but a total lack of defensive stats means you’re going to die….A LOT….. except on a clothie because they have a lot more active defense… so you can pull that off if you’re a total baller…

That being said, i personally stack healing power> power > vitality >toughness >precision (precision is just kinda there lol) and i’ve run into like no issues…. infact, the only reason power is above vitality and toughness is because i have a large portion of healing power transferring into power, as well as power being a secondary stat on all the stuff i use.

The point is that “Healing Power” seems to have no significance and no weight in the economy of pg… or better if I want to spend points on this attribute “only” to improve my self-healing, this is not the way. In some cases this attribute can increase significantly the weight of support healing skills…
In conclusion “Healing Power” is well balanced or not? With the present situation seems that also for support build is quite usefulness invest points on this attribute.

I suggest to put this thread in the Suggestion forum group.

:)

jpnole.2476:

There is no dedicated healer class. It has been discussed in many threads so far. Even if you only want to heal yourself, the combat system isn’t designed for you to always be able to heal your way out of trouble. Working as intended.

So they intended to offer us a way to boost a stat but then make every other stat so much better to boost than that one stat so anyone who knows what they are doing doesn’t touch it? Clearly having one useless stat is not working as intended.

Lord Kelvin.8217:

The point is that “Healing Power” seems to have no significance and no weight in the economy of pg… or better if I want to spend points on this attribute “only” to improve my self-healing, this is not the way. In some cases this attribute can increase significantly the weight of support healing skills…
In conclusion “Healing Power” is well balanced or not? With the present situation seems that also for support build is quite usefulness invest points on this attribute.

I suggest to put this thread in the Suggestion forum group.

:)

I mainly didn’t want this in the suggestion forum because it would get buried in the hundreds of other, smaller, and more useless suggestions. This thread wasn’t so much “Hey, make this stat not suck!” but a discussion thread put here for the sake of pointing out that it sucks, and hoping that the devs notice, agree, and do something about it.

Judging the effects on individual heals is nice but one should also take into consideration how often one can make use of a stat.

On each attack that deals damage, Power does something. On each hit you take, Toughness works. But on the same note, if you cannot land a hit, Power is worthless and if you dodge very well, so is Toughness.

My point in this is that measuring Healing Power on individual skills is pointless. For example, on an Elementalist that uses Signet of Rejuvenation (gain health each time you cast a spell), Healing Power has a lot more ‘active time’ than on somebody who only switches to Water Magic once a day because they’re bored. And in such a scenario, while the heal may be weak per cast, over time, it really adds up. Especially when considering the fact that gear set also comes with a bucket of toughness.

This isn’t very meaningful without comparing it to the throughput from other stats. 300 condition damage might increase my bleeds by about 20% for example, which is what I’d compare to 300 healing which increases my healing by 10-15% (or whatever).

I think trading in 20% damage for 15% healing on the entire party would be a reasonable consideration. There are lots of situations where healing is going to be more valuable than damage per second. Time to live scales differently with healing than with damage. A 15% increase in healing could increase longevity infinitely, depending on the incoming damage.

The OP doesn’t include any of those numbers though.

Sydrek.5146:

I’m wondering who are those people that you claim are “the best” ?
Especially considering most people in sPvP aren’t even half-decent, so the majority of players running with the popular brain dead offence stat stack are a bad representation of the real effectiveness/potential it has.
You know .. the same people who rely solely on channeled abilities to defeat their opponent, at best have one cc and usually with dmg cd’s for the rest.
Of which the counter is simply to CC during their channel, followed by trying not to fall asleep afterwards.

The key to sPvP (aside of teamwork ofc) is defensive abilities and cc, not defensive stats with the exception in some cases like the person above pointed out, being vitality.

It’s not my problem you didn’t do your research on the top sPvP teams and how they build their PvP characters.

But carry on, your myopic views and how you express them are entertaining at the least.

In the meantime, better players will continue to play the right way and obtain results while you try to discredit said better players just because the right way of playing doesn’t sit well with you.

Funny how people choose to fail just to preserve their own pride.

soulcakeduck.7036:

This isn’t very meaningful without comparing it to the throughput from other stats. 300 condition damage might increase my bleeds by about 20% for example, which is what I’d compare to 300 healing which increases my healing by 10-15% (or whatever).

I think trading in 20% damage for 15% healing on the entire party would be a reasonable consideration. There are lots of situations where healing is going to be more valuable than damage per second. Time to live scales differently with healing than with damage. A 15% increase in healing could increase longevity infinitely, depending on the incoming damage.

The OP doesn’t include any of those numbers though.

Super Priory Numbers Fu!

NB: Formulas are based off of Guild Wars 2 Wiki. Validation required, etc etc etc.

StarlightGamer.9560:

My testing wasn’t exactly extensive, but I almost didn’t notice a difference after my thief spec’d into toughness. The opening attack that Hyenas use did about 900 damage (straight damage, no condition damage) before putting 20 points into Shadow Arts (toughness). Afterwards, it did 800 damage. That’s such a small difference that it’s probably within margin of error (IE: normal damage variations).

I then went to a nearby group event and got hit by a normal attack for more than half my life. I could have at least had a good chance at surviving two hits if I’d dumped those 20 points into vitality.

So… I don’t know. Somebody is gonna have to do some more extensive testing. At best, it seems to either reduce damage by something like 3% per 100 toughness or like -1 damage per 2 toughness. Not counting any kind of level scaling.

Maybe defense doesn’t reduce straight damage or a percentage of damage like it does in other games, and instead does something a little less tangible like reduces enemy crit chances against you and/or increases the chance of a glancing blow against you.

Soo what you are saying is 200 toughness reduced your damage by 10%. Um sorry but that is extremely good for 200 toughness.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Aza.2105:

Healing power is fine the way it is imo. If they made it on par with the other major stats, what would happen is players would try to become dedicated healers.

Try actually reading the post before you respond. And especially remember this:

DIFFERENT ABILITIES SCALE WITH HEALING POWER AT DIFFERENT RATES, AND CAN BE ADJUSTED INDEPENDENTLY

You are mistaken, I read your post very well. Otherwise I wouldn’t of responded. I noticed how you give examples of how heal power scales differently, but guess what? Equal does not mean the same, none of those skills are function a like. Perhaps if you added their cooldowns, casting times, how long the duration is, and how they function in general, that you your analysis would appear more conclusive.

ThiBash.5634:

Judging the effects on individual heals is nice but one should also take into consideration how often one can make use of a stat.

On each attack that deals damage, Power does something. On each hit you take, Toughness works. But on the same note, if you cannot land a hit, Power is worthless and if you dodge very well, so is Toughness.

My point in this is that measuring Healing Power on individual skills is pointless. For example, on an Elementalist that uses Signet of Rejuvenation (gain health each time you cast a spell), Healing Power has a lot more ‘active time’ than on somebody who only switches to Water Magic once a day because they’re bored. And in such a scenario, while the heal may be weak per cast, over time, it really adds up. Especially when considering the fact that gear set also comes with a bucket of toughness.

But that’s exactly the problem with how poorly these abilities scale. Toughness is always in effect. Vitality is always in effect.

If I take the Glyph heal, I’m only going to be able to use it once every 25 seconds. Obviously, the Signet scales the “worst” simply because of how often it can be used and how frequently the passive heals you (and especially if you take Written in Stone to keep your passive always present – for that matter, should it be balanced with the idea of you taking that trait? Or without it?), but why do the others still scale so poorly?

My point being that, because the benefit of Healing Power only helps me when I specifically use an ability that heals me, it should scale better than Vitality or Toughness.

Aza.2105:

You are mistaken, I read your post very well. Otherwise I wouldn’t of responded.

No, you didn’t, or else you wouldn’t have said anything about dedicated healers. What I’ve posted has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of dedicated healing, but with Healing Power as a defense stat.

Point for point, right now, Vitality is significantly superior to Healing Power for self-defense, and it’s possible that Toughness is as well, though not everybody is finding Toughness to work well.

That’s the issue I’m trying to point out in this thread. Right now, this stat just doesn’t scale strongly enough with my self-heals for me to consider taking it over Vitality or Toughness.

It may not necessarily be universally true, since different professions have different mechanics and scaling, but I know that for my Elementalist and my Guardian… it’s just not worth it.

City of Heroes has no “healer class”, yet almost all healing abilities in the game were potent, and responded well to gearing.

RebelYell.7132:

City of Heroes has no “healer class”, yet almost all healing abilities in the game were potent, and responded well to gearing.

Umm… I beg to differ on the “no healing class” bit. O_o

Certain power sets for Defenders and Corruptors were very much aimed at healing/buffing/protecting the group. (Radiation Emission, Empathy, and Dark Miasma come to mind specifically)
Pretty sure Peacebringers/Warshades could too, but I never made one, so I’m not positive.

All healing abilities, however, did indeed scale exceedingly well when you slotted them with +Healing enhancements.

Argh, yet another broken page!

Just refresh. 123456677

To fix it, you actually gotta click on a page number.

I’m glad I was linked to this thread. My build in PvE has been using healing power and I was a little disappointed but I didn’t know the coefficients were so bad for everyone. Like others I’m not trying to build a dedicated healer, but regen tanking is usually fairly viable in other games. It is disappointing that I can’t just gear for that without wasting item budget