Guild Wars 2

Oy, are there any upcoming fixes to the terrible state in which the healing power currently is? I see that at least the necros got something, but will it get buffed in general? Any anet comments on this? My quick google search showed nothing, nada, nil. Would be nice to see some change from the ever-present silly dps stacking.

I honestly don’t know the point of healing power. Only in large amounts does it make a lick of difference, and most healing abilities, traits, etc heal pretty decently. It’s probably likely they are not ok with the idea of people running around in full healing power gear healing for obscene amounts. Healway guards already heal for a high amount, imagine of healing power actually scaled in a way that mattered.

But they are okay with the full-berserker meta and killing everything before its mechanics even start to work properly? Eh. :P I am writing this as en engi, wanting to have some fun with the elixir gun/healing turret support.

If healing power was upped enough for support to be viable than just a guardian with a few shouts and mass cleansing then bosses would probably need to hit a bit harder to keep up with the amount of healing being distributed, not counting self-healing.

Well, I guess they can fix this class by class, omitting the guardians, if they are indeed fine already (the only class I haven’t played, actually).

I wish healing skills would be bit better, especially with staff elementalists and engineer. Guardian could also have bit more as a “frontline healer”.
Then making bosses bit more difficult and boom we had something else than just zergers running around.
I don’t mean trinity, but simply to have slight need for those supports every now and then in pve.

But still in wvw I really enjoy my (healer) elementalist built to be full support and having 1,4k healing. It makes surprisingly, if not a lot, then at least decently difference in smaller teams if there is someone supporting and right moments harassing with attack skills, even if they ain’t exactly strong.

Asmodeus.5782:

But they are okay with the full-berserker meta and killing everything before its mechanics even start to work properly? Eh. :P I am writing this as en engi, wanting to have some fun with the elixir gun/healing turret support.

I suspect there are two factors here.

1. Getting the benefit of 2+ X the damage of other builds while still surviving requires at least some skill; using heal other abilities only requires proper positioning.
2. The same mechanics that allow a skilled berserker player to survive in PvE also work for that berserker’s targets in PvP. The only counter to stronger healing in PvP is more damage. There are already complaints about bunkers being too strong in PvP, so adding more punch to Healing Power would widen that gap.

Essentially, the same damage mitigation skills that diminish the opportunity cost of a berserker build in PvE counters the counter to stronger healing in PvP.

I wish they would just remove healing power as a stat from the game.

It’s not on equal footing with the other stats for the price paid. If you sink 1500 points into condition damage, your conditions really hurt (about 2.5x harder — roughly 1000 points to double your condi dmg). If you sink 1500 points into healing power, your healing is not 2.5x better.

EDIT: This argument is analogous to the magic find argument — if you push heavy into this stat your hurting your team in a way because the amount of increased healing is not on par with other increases you could have received. (NOTE: I said “analogous”, not “identical”).

In PvE, healing power may be pointless, but what about PvP? Consider more than just one section of the game.

They could improve the heal scaling by 10x and it would still be useless in PvE. If you can survive content in full berserker gear then it will always be optimal.

CMF.5461:

In PvE, healing power may be pointless, but what about PvP? Consider more than just one section of the game.

Maybe you can answer your own question: Do you find it valuable in PvP?

Also consider that skills and effects are separated by area: PvP, WvW, and PvE. So even if you answer "yes it is valuable in PvP’, then it still doesn’t impact PvE if the developers choose it to be so.

The warrior regen/condition builds I have seen need healing power to a degree, and building with settler or apothecary worked well for them.

Bunker guardians survive purely on healing power and the ability to sustain the small HP pool that they have via self heals.

I have never played it, but people said rangers could use condi/heal pow/xxx type armor and enjoy it well.

Elementalists are supposed to have great healing via water abilities are supposedly are the “best” healers in the game.

So yes, healing power is valuable. No I don’t think it is worthless. Yes I think it needs a revamp so it does not pigeon hole people so much into one stat that makes them ineffective in terms such as damage.

juno.1840:

I wish they would just remove healing power as a stat from the game.

It’s not on equal footing with the other stats for the price paid. If you sink 1500 points into condition damage, your conditions really hurt (about 2.5x harder — roughly 1000 points to double your condi dmg). If you sink 1500 points into healing power, your healing is not 2.5x better.

EDIT: This argument is analogous to the magic find argument — if you push heavy into this stat your hurting your team in a way because the amount of increased healing is not on par with other increases you could have received. (NOTE: I said “analogous”, not “identical”).

No offense (see how it can still be used properly), but that is the very reason I always thought that accepting the notion that MF gear was “selfish” (as if stats were morally capable of being so) was inappropriate. A)People do not know whether someone is selfish based on gear choice andanyone that doesn’t submit to a meta of efficiency could be randomly deemed “selfish” by this or that elitist, regardless gear (now Soldier’s is also “selfish” in many corners of this forum, for instance-Cleric’s is probably even more “selfish” as well, while wanting others to forcibly adhere to the meta fails to be seen as selfish to them, but more “teamwork”.)

The above means that these types of players, while not being really superior to each other, shouldn’t party together as they have different goals. Both are valid ways to play, but they are not too compatible to say the least. If you think only DPS matters, do not party with those who are more liberal in those regards-no need to call them pejoratives, just because they find value in non meta gear. Just find your type of player to play with and leave them alone to their fun (same goes for non speed runners claiming that all Berserker’s players do is take “dirtnaps”-it’s insulting to those who play well and rarely get downed with Berserker’s gear.)

I find all stat combos should have their place with different playstyles, and that it is none of our business to care for any other player’s choices, as he/she may have a good reason for choosing his/her stats the way he/she did, and those are his/her characters, not my own. Of course, if some group requests Berserker’s and I have full Rabid’s, why should I join that group? If you believe in freedom of choice, play with like-minded characters, and enjoy yourself with whatever gear combo(s) you may have more fun with.

No argument intended, however; carry on.

CMF.5461:

The warrior regen/condition builds I have seen need healing power to a degree, and building with settler or apothecary worked well for them.

Bunker guardians survive purely on healing power and the ability to sustain the small HP pool that they have via self heals.

I have never played it, but people said rangers could use condi/heal pow/xxx type armor and enjoy it well.

Elementalists are supposed to have great healing via water abilities are supposedly are the “best” healers in the game.

So yes, healing power is valuable. No I don’t think it is worthless. Yes I think it needs a revamp so it does not pigeon hole people so much into one stat that makes them ineffective in terms such as damage.

I’m think that you’re confusing healing with healing power. All of your examples are really good, but those builds are effective because of the healing — not necessarily because they stacked healing power.

Also some of the armor sets you mentioned are PvE, not PvP — but they would apply in WvW. I thought your original post was purely PvP. I’m happy considering WvW in that mix though because I like it more anyway .

This would be a great time to insert some math showing the effects of Healing Power in one of those builds you mentioned. Maybe regen warrior’s HPS with and without stacking HP.

Are you serious? My entire reason for leaving this game is because “healing” is not a viable role to play full time and in fact the ONLY role to be playing is DPS, while mixing in some support-ish types of abilities every now and again. Well, DPS bores the crap out of me, and mechanics jsut became a “dodge this!” now “Dodge that1” Now MASHMASSMASH to get in as many hits as possible before the mobs die! Or if in an instance it was "Kite the mob while we all MASHMASHMASH DPS until it dies!

I was harrassed and told “Go back to WoW” if I wanted the trinity. Anyway. I liked this games exploration, puzzles, and living world. However the actual mechanics and fighting functions were BORING. For someone who enjoys Healing and support roles anyway.

Efaicia.3672:

Are you serious? My entire reason for leaving this game is because “healing” is not a viable role to play full time and in fact the ONLY role to be playing is DPS, while mixing in some support-ish types of abilities every now and again. Well, DPS bores the crap out of me, and mechanics jsut became a “dodge this!” now “Dodge that1” Now MASHMASSMASH to get in as many hits as possible before the mobs die! Or if in an instance it was "Kite the mob while we all MASHMASHMASH DPS until it dies!

I was harrassed and told “Go back to WoW” if I wanted the trinity. Anyway. I liked this games exploration, puzzles, and living world. However the actual mechanics and fighting functions were BORING. For someone who enjoys Healing and support roles anyway.

This so much I think thats the basic reason this game can’t hold my interest for more than a few days. I always seem to come back after a few patches, play for a few days and then lose interest very quickly. the combat is really really dull and boring, and class depth is extremely limiting.

it would be nice if there was more to this games combat besides “get zerkers to see the big numbers!”.

this is like the perfect MMORPG for the dumb down zerg players who don’t want to have to think about builds and rotations. And thats pretty sad especially since GW1 was the complete opposite.

go ahead gw2 fanboys tell me to go play something else … because you know what I probably will.

Mepheles.2087:

I honestly don’t know the point of healing power. Only in large amounts does it make a lick of difference, and most healing abilities, traits, etc heal pretty decently. It’s probably likely they are not ok with the idea of people running around in full healing power gear healing for obscene amounts. Healway guards already heal for a high amount, imagine of healing power actually scaled in a way that mattered.

well it was originally supposed to scale properly, however most skills aren’t designed properly or were simply forgotten in the early design so they don’t really make a difference when in a group. Some people claim they do but really they don’t on most classes when you heal in your big heals for less than 1k and your little heals are half a k each and your regens are less thant 200 each while in full healing power gear and crit gear there’s something terribly wrong. Then on top of it all the extra heals by cleverly using AOE zones are unequal in their implementation. For example, my engineer has to do 3-4 things in order to get the splash effect while my ranger just needs to buttons to do the same.

It really need a rework from the bottom up and I would suggest that they implement an automatic overload on the healing turret for both the supply drop elite as well as the normal turret that would be a big help immediately.

Anet has been making new bosses have Massive HP pool with one-shot mechanics, so healing is still useless, just zerk it down and dodge, it’s all you can really do at the moment.

I love that there’s no Trinity in GW2. But what’s happened is that everyone is responsible solely for their own health and nothing more. Group healing is an afterthought. Also, in an effort to keep self-healing in check, healing power scales terribly with every skill. So there’s no point in gearing it.

To make an encounter require group healing, and thus more teamwork and strategy, would be to elevate certain classes over others due to their ability to aoe heal. Ranger & engineer spring to mind due to strong aoe heal #6 abilities. This required strategy would compete against Anet’s vision of being able to take any combination of professions into a dungeon and succeed.

The same is true of other support skills. Warriors and guardians are so coveted due to their awesome party buffing ability, even though it’s not even required to clear a dungeon. It just makes things faster. If encounters suddenly required the kind of party buffing only warrior can bring, we’d see profession division. In an attempt to make every profession just as important as every other profession, fights are dumbed down to zerg-status. Nothing is required. It’s a 2-sided sword. If we have strong emphasis on support, then we’re looking at a pretty massive re-design to make sure no class is left behind.

What we have with healing power is a conundrum due to arena nets desire to eliminate the “holy trinity”. They don’t want 1 or 2 players to be able to do all of the healing for the whole group and as a result, they simply gave everyone access to lots of healing. The problem is now that in order to not allow unkillable players in pvp they opted to reduce the scaling of healing power instead of the base heal taking healing power from being over powered to borderline useless.
I would propose that that all base heals are nerfed extremely hard and healing power given much more scaling to make high level heals yield about the same as they do now. This leaves the problem of dedicated group healers being viable such as elementalist starting to bring back the trinity. One solution to prevent this would be to have when a group member receives healing from another player they will get healing based off of their own healing power so if they want a teammate to give them a substantial heal they need to invest in healing power themselves. Or better yet make the heal amount be based off of the average healing power of giver and recipient meaning if only one member invests, it is still a decent heal but if both invest, it becomes quite substantial.

What should be done to balance the game for PVE:

Play how you want to play

1) Increase the effectiveness of Toughness to being survive-viable(no diminishing returns the higher you go in Toughness). If people want to die in 3 hits instead of 1, let them survive. No more 1-hit-ko bosses for people who invest in Toughness.

2) Increase the effectiveness of Healing Power to being healer-viable(healing scales very badly). If people want to pour everything into healing, let them heal.

3) Increase the effectiveness of Condition Damage to being degen-viable(conditions stack very badly). If people want to degen, let them degen.

Then increase the damage done by bosses to the point where they 1 hit anyone with no points in toughness(but those who have invested in max toughness die in 2 hits if light, 3 if medium, 4 if heavy).

Zerkers should not be affected(repeat not be affected) as Zerkers out there claims that they can dodge forever, never take a hit, and never die.
If you claim you die in 1 hit from the boss anyway, then i increase the boss’s damage, logically it should not affect you.

Right now we have:
1. Extreme high DPS zerker that survive perfectly fine too.
2. Healers are useless due to healing power scaling.
3. Tanky builds with awful(although just a little more consistent than zerker) DPS.
4. Condition builds that just stop doing anything once condition cap is reached.

This will change into:
1. Pros who can run zerker perfectly.
2. Healers who can support effectively.
3. Hybrid Tank with steady DPS who can survive longer.
4. Debuffers who can actually damage the boss.

All those stats will become viable.

HP works in SPVP thanks to the baselines between sides being very close together. This makes build choices have a impact as a well timed heal can tip the balance in your favor. But in PVE, mobs can outlast characters in a massive way. Thus making massive damage output the way to fly.