Guild Wars 2

It seems that all the classes are designed to be equal, yet some classes have more health and damage mitigation than others.

One would think that the classes with the least health and armour would do the most damage to make up for that. In guild wars 2 this seems not to be the case.

On the bottom end of the scale we have classes like the staff elementalist, a paper tiger whose damage is both poor and capped. Arenanet agrees and mentions possible, vague fixes that thus far have never appeared. The situation becomes so bad that most elementalists end up using daggers and become assassins….not what anyone intended.

On the top end, we have classes like the beserker warrior, or warriors in general, whose damage output is recognised as the highest possible and yet, they have the highest passive health and defense. Clearly, having everything is better than having something or nothing, so everyone just recruits this option for quick kills and farming.

We all recognise this…yet still there is nothing done and likely nothing will be done for the foreseeable future. How can this obvious inequality be allowed to continue for any and all classes.

Why is it that we are all equal, but that some are more equal than others?

Squeaky wheels and the balancing teams. Plus look at the types of players they have in their round tables. PvP centric individuals are usually the ones taking part in any sort of publicized game feedback, with a focus on flash over substance designed to increase viewership instead of actual balance.

They stated they are separating out the game modes for balance, we will have to wait and see how it goes from there

killcannon.2576:

Squeaky wheels and the balancing teams. Plus look at the types of players they have in their round tables. PvP centric individuals are usually the ones taking part in any sort of publicized game feedback, with a focus on flash over substance designed to increase viewership instead of actual balance.

They stated they are separating out the game modes for balance, we will have to wait and see how it goes from there

Thing is warriors are probably the weakest class in PvP while Eles are amongst the strongest (although you don’t see many staff builds.)

Julie Yann.5379:

killcannon.2576:

Squeaky wheels and the balancing teams. Plus look at the types of players they have in their round tables. PvP centric individuals are usually the ones taking part in any sort of publicized game feedback, with a focus on flash over substance designed to increase viewership instead of actual balance.

They stated they are separating out the game modes for balance, we will have to wait and see how it goes from there

Thing is warriors are probably the weakest class in PvP while Eles are amongst the strongest (although you don’t see many staff builds.)

True words, and I think that’s one reason that some players are frustrated. A lot of action is being taken to make Warriors viable, but little action is being taken to make anything other than one type of build viable for other classes. I certainly would like to have other builds just as viable as a d/d ele in pvp or pve, just have not seen much on that front.

Hopefully it comes, but waiting is always a pain.

chronometria.3708:

Why is it that we are all equal, but that some are more equal than others?

Does this even make sense?

ExZee.8109:

chronometria.3708:

Why is it that we are all equal, but that some are more equal than others?

Does this even make sense?

Yes. One of the core ideas behind the game is that any profession can fulfill most traditional roles or all be equal. An ele can tank/ a warrior can heal/ a necro can support etc etc. What we find though is that some classes can fit this core idea better than others, hence why some are more equal than others.

ExZee.8109:

chronometria.3708:

Why is it that we are all equal, but that some are more equal than others?

Does this even make sense?

Also a literary reference to the book “Animal Farm”, which was itself a critique of communism, where everyone was supposed to be equal.

Originally, the rule was “all animals are equal”….and when one group took power it changed it to “all animals are equal but some are more equal than others”.

That’s the situation I see here, where the clear aim is that all players and all classes can contribute to all aspects of the game. There is no “holy trinity” where the roles of classes are strictly defined.

Unfortunately, classes start with an imbalanced playing field, where some are extremely vulnerable. This is seen as ok, but to give them proportionally better damage is somehow seen as bad. The classes are being equalised but this is impossible from the start due to this holdover from other mmo’s. It must be done away with before true balance can be considered.

It is like painting a bicycle and a car red and then claiming they are balanced because they are the same colour.

I see no issue with that, because rather than damage the equalizer here seems to be the extra active defenses the professions with lower HP/Armor get.

For example, the profession with both highest HP pool and Armor seems to be having he hardest time surviving in PvP, because they just don’t get those extra active defenses, which are extremely powerful and bridge the health/armor gate easily.

Ironically, warriors are actually amongst the most fragile professions out there. On the other side of the fence, I’d say my Mesmer is amongst the sturdiest guys out there despite lowest armor and mid of the range health pool, because instead I get overloaded with active defenses that pull me from the seemingly low position on survivability scale to the easily higher one.

That said, I think there is a place for damage balance to happen in PvE, one should acknowledge how tough it is to do right in GW2, since something as trivial as changing a weapon can make a completely wild and sometimes unforseen difference in the playstyle and output.

It is a left over idea from the trinity. Guess they removed part of it but not all of . Always thought it was dumb. It also restricts build choice. Which is their way of balancing the game. Or trying to anyway.

This would have worked at lot better of utility meant more in this game. That was sort of supposed to be the idea. Those who have utility would have more value than those who don’t, and they sacrifice either armor or health or both for that. Mesmers are a reasonable example.

They’re great in all formats of the game but they have the lowest armor and the middle health. But not too many people complain about this because mesmers are pretty kitten ed handy to have around.

In order for the game to work “as intended”, other professions that have lower health/armor need to be made more “handy”.

warriors have the most damage most HP yet worst in PVP
and not best at PVE.

Because this game is nothing like other games

Oh after reading your thread. so you are complaining about a melee class having more damage and more hp then your ranged class?

before the more damage=less survibility, less damage= more survibility(which is build related: PTV gear, PPC gear)
theres always melee = more damage more health then ranged who can basicly avoid been attacked by walking and attack constantly

have you see a zerker war auto attack with gs 3k and a rifle 1k (this is single target weapon) not to mention AoE longbow.

Ofc no one is equal, its not like a melee class can avoid been attacked by walking and attack constantly or not like a ranged class will take 5 projectiles at once because they are too close to the enemy.

Vayne.8563:

This would have worked at lot better of utility meant more in this game. That was sort of supposed to be the idea. Those who have utility would have more value than those who don’t, and they sacrifice either armor or health or both for that. Mesmers are a reasonable example.

They’re great in all formats of the game but they have the lowest armor and the middle health. But not too many people complain about this because mesmers are pretty kitten ed handy to have around.

In order for the game to work “as intended”, other professions that have lower health/armor need to be made more “handy”.

Remove defiant as a mechanic in dungeons. Literally all that’s needed to fix this.

Other fixes would be nice too, like personal debuff stacks, buffing combos and tweaking with condition damage multipliers, but at the very least, defiant has to go.

marnick.4305:

Vayne.8563:

This would have worked at lot better of utility meant more in this game. That was sort of supposed to be the idea. Those who have utility would have more value than those who don’t, and they sacrifice either armor or health or both for that. Mesmers are a reasonable example.

They’re great in all formats of the game but they have the lowest armor and the middle health. But not too many people complain about this because mesmers are pretty kitten ed handy to have around.

In order for the game to work “as intended”, other professions that have lower health/armor need to be made more “handy”.

Remove defiant as a mechanic in dungeons. Literally all that’s needed to fix this.

Other fixes would be nice too, like personal debuff stacks, buffing combos and tweaking with condition damage multipliers, but at the very least, defiant has to go.

I’d like to see defiant go, at least on most bosses. But I wonder if that would make the game to easy.

Lighter.5631:

have you see a zerker war auto attack with gs 3k and a rifle 1k (this is single target weapon) not to mention AoE longbow.

Have you actually seen what a warrior killshot build can do in PvE?

Astralporing.1957:

Lighter.5631:

have you see a zerker war auto attack with gs 3k and a rifle 1k (this is single target weapon) not to mention AoE longbow.

Have you actually seen what a warrior killshot build can do in PvE?

you know why they use gs and axe for cof1 speed runs?

Lighter.5631:

Astralporing.1957:

Lighter.5631:

have you see a zerker war auto attack with gs 3k and a rifle 1k (this is single target weapon) not to mention AoE longbow.

Have you actually seen what a warrior killshot build can do in PvE?

you know why they use gs and axe for cof1 speed runs?

Yes, because those are even better. So? That means they are at least as good at range and way better in melee than squishy classes, while being far less squishy.
(There’s also that dev statement that the best ranged weapon in the game as far as dps go is guardian’s scepter, but that’s likely a mistake, so i won’t use it as a second example).

Vayne.8563:

I’d like to see defiant go, at least on most bosses. But I wonder if that would make the game to easy.

I don’t think defiant should be rid off altogether. Something like an irremovable defiant buff after a successful CC that lasts for a certain time would be a better version of the current defiant system imo.

Problem is that PVP and PVE are two very different games.

PVP play like a arcade fighter, where one well timed control/interrupt or heal may tip the fight in your favor permanently.

PVE do not have this because the health of most mobs are so high that you can’t really kill them in the space of a well timed control or similar. And so it becomes all about DPS. Especially AOE DPS. Something the warrior excels at thanks to 110b.

This because 100b has a short cooldown, hits for a massive amount and is a cone AOE. In PVP it has a natural counter in that any sane player will dodge the moment it starts up, leaving the warrior a sitting duck. Mobs don’t dodge however, allowing the warrior to slaughter multiple trash mobs quickly.

Lighter.5631:

warriors have the most damage most HP yet worst in PVP
and not best at PVE.

Because this game is nothing like other games

Oh after reading your thread. so you are complaining about a melee class having more damage and more hp then your ranged class?

before the more damage=less survibility, less damage= more survibility(which is build related: PTV gear, PPC gear)
theres always melee = more damage more health then ranged who can basicly avoid been attacked by walking and attack constantly

have you see a zerker war auto attack with gs 3k and a rifle 1k (this is single target weapon) not to mention AoE longbow.

Ofc no one is equal, its not like a melee class can avoid been attacked by walking and attack constantly or not like a ranged class will take 5 projectiles at once because they are too close to the enemy.

High DPS means high survivability because a dead mob do no damage. Also, mod DO NOT DODGE! That is the massive difference between PVP and PVE.

Elementalists thrive in PVP because of evasive arcana, as it offers AOE damage and combo fields at the drop of a dodge. Meaning that they put down combo fields and finishers while also avoiding all damage.

Also, even the most tanked up warrior can’t match a trash mob, never mind a veteran or higher, in the health department. Meaning that one good strike in PVP can drop someone, while in PVE you only just begun. This also makes control much less effective in PVE even before one considers Defiant.

chronometria.3708:

ExZee.8109:

chronometria.3708:

Why is it that we are all equal, but that some are more equal than others?

Does this even make sense?

Also a literary reference to the book “Animal Farm”, which was itself a critique of communism, where everyone was supposed to be equal.

Originally, the rule was “all animals are equal”….and when one group took power it changed it to “all animals are equal but some are more equal than others”.

If only kids these days actually learned to read.

The classes are mostly balanced, but sure there are issues that pop up. Especially when they try to balance for both PvE and PvP with the same changes.

Thankfully they are now choosing to split the balance and make PvP and PvE balance separated. But it will take a lot of patches to get it all sorted out…

I’m not convinced the issues are as severe as folks think – they may exist. But a 5% difference gets magnified into a 90% difference in some people’s minds.