Guild Wars 2

I’ve been reading through all these forums posts for the last few days and while there are some good points, there are also some very bad ones.
As a Veteran player I felt at first that Arena Net owed me something. They don’t. I bought the game 3 years ago and have enjoyed it on and off again. I’m no software developer and for the most part I have no idea what goes into making a video game, much less one with the beautiful landscapes and variety of content this one has.
Take a look at the Arena Net website, just the front page ( https://www.arena.net/ ) and tell me does that not look like a happy place? Just from looks alone I would rather work there than where I do now. It looks so inviting. These people have a passion for this game and here we are slinging mud at their “baby” all because of our sense of entitlement. For shame!
I pity the people whose job it is to moderate these forums. It’s like walking into a war zone every day. No wonder we don’t get many responses.

As for Heart of Thorns it’s reasonable to me for Arena Net to ask what they want for all their hard work, after all they will need the money for server upgrades to be able to handle the new Condition specializations and the influx of new players with the release of HoT. Plus they have to pay their employees.

As a veteran player myself who was in the GW2 Beta and for some time afterwards I think many current players are suffering from a sense of entitlement.
Let me put it another way and use an example someone else already used in their post.

You go into a Department Store and buy a shirt and pants for $50 and are quite happy. Three years later that same shirt and pants are on sale and as an extra incentive the store throws in a pair of shoes for free.
Now how likely is it that if you went back to this store, showed them your receipt from three years ago that they would give you a pair of shoes for free?
Not gonna happen and you know this but many people cry, pout and stomp their feet anyway.

I’ll tell you exactly what will happen with the majority of the player base on this issue. They will continue to make post after post, they’ll call the Developers and Moderators all sorts of names, threaten litigation or to quit the game.

When Heart of Thorns does get released people will be overwhelmed with all the sugar coated goodies in the game. They will show off their loot to people who said on these forums (myself included) that they weren’t going to buy HoT unless there was a character slot included in the $50 version and you know what will happen?
Those who previously whined, pouted and name called will buy the expansion and buy the slot with gold or gems.
All this nonsense on the forums will have been for nothing.
You know this and Arena Net knows this.

There is a very simple way to solve this issue. You don’t like the current offer? Don’t buy Heart of Thorns. Keep playing regular old GW2 and I’ll see you in LA with my fancy schmancy Glider Skin and you can read on map chat how much fun I have jumping off high cliffs and gliding to areas that you can’t get to. I’ll talk about epic battles and interesting story lines while you have nothing but more hours of grinding in Silver Wastes and Dry Top for geodes and keys. I’ll also show off my new Legendary which is only attainable with Bind on Account materials from the Heart of Thorns release.

I know what will happen. You won’t be able to stand it. You’ll give in and buy Heart of Thorns.

See you in game (wherever that ends up being).

The inequity is the biggest issue because of two parts:

1) New players simply get far more content for the same price.

2) Heart of Thorns is the base game now. Existing players must buy the base game a second time to access the new content. If vanilla could still be purchased or played without purchase there would be no issue.

Up until the start of the week, vanilla had a very specific value: whatever it was being sold for.

As for your analogy, it doesn’t work here for a couple of reasons:

1) Clothes wear out so naturally you need to replace them over time. Software doesn’t do the same thing.
2) It would be like buying a pair of pants that never get beaten up, worn through, etc. and wanting a pair of shoes. Unfortunately that pair of shoes can only be purchased if you also buy another pair of pants. You are only allowed one pair of pants.

Now, you can argue that the pants were free with the shoes, but you don’t even get the satisfaction of taking them off the rack and throwing out your disallowed new pants. You have to leave them hanging there.

Thing is your not buying a new shirt, they are giving you a badge to go on a shirt.. then giving you the shirt for it.

Fauxfox.7318:

Thing is your not buying a new shirt, they are giving you a badge to go on a shirt.. then giving you the shirt for it.

But they aren’t. If they were, I could go buy the expansion and get two codes. One for an upgrade and one for a new account.

What’s written on the badge ? I Don’t know ? I Don’t buy.

One of the big issues almost all MMOs face in gaining new people is the barriers to entry and there are a lot of them. Anet has tried to fix this by including the original game in HoT. They are including it for free, because they want people to get into the world. This drives gem sales which funds the game between expansions.

By removing even a single entry barrier, more people enter the world which is good for everyone who plays the game. Giving away the game isn’t a slap in the face to Veteran players, it’s something that’s good for veteran players. Let’s say someone buys the game from this point on. I can bring them into my guild now. They can come to my guild hall. They can become part of my family.

The other way, every time I recruit someone I have to ask if they have Heart of Thorns. If they don’t, they won’t be able to be with the guild when the game launches.

There are so many barriers to entry for new players in MMOs. New players are years behind some of us in the acquisition of gold and skins. I can easily buy a 90 gold skin from the TP if I want, for a new player, those skins will be out of reach for a much longer time, and in addition to that, many of the skins aren’t even available anymore.

All the content in Hot and all the content that will be added moving forward is for veteran players, but the decision to include the game for free benefits veteran players as well.

I don’t get why this is so hard for people to understand.

Cathbadb.6079:

You go into a Department Store and buy a shirt and pants for $50 and are quite happy. Three years later that same shirt and pants are on sale and as an extra incentive the store throws in a pair of shoes for free.
Now how likely is it that if you went back to this store, showed them your receipt from three years ago that they would give you a pair of shoes for free?
Not gonna happen and you know this but many people cry, pout and stomp their feet anyway.

If you want the shoes and bought another pair of pants and a shirt to get them, you’d end up with 2 shirts, 2 pairs of pants and a pair of shoes. That’s great value for money!

How does this have anything to do with the HoT situation?

Palindrome.8904:

The inequity is the biggest issue because of two parts:

1) New players simply get far more content for the same price.

So the up to 3 years of content you veterans have experienced, much of it unique and non-repeatable, and the thousands of hours players have got out of their base game purchase, count for nothing?

This is the fundamental disagreement I have with this “new players get more” argument. New players are not getting more. New players are not getting 3 years and thousands of hours of enjoyment and unique, non-repeatable content from launch up til now.

The only other game in existence I have played that even comes close to the time I’ve invested in it for a similar price tag to GW2 is Skyrim. I’d buy skyrim all over again if I needed to to get a new DLC for it, because the sheer amount of enjoyment and hours I have got from Skyrim make the price a pittance compared to what I as a customer have got from it.

That’s Skyrim as a single player game without continual development costs, with a huge community modder team to fix all their bugs, without server hosting fees to pay for, without any of the persistent costs asociated with running an MMO.

Am I happy to let new players come in to the game and experience HoT for the same price of me upgrading when I’ve had 10 months (myself, others almost 3 years) and over 1,000 hours of gameplay before HoT has released?

kitten right I am, I can’t wait to get several thousand more hours of gameplay from HoT for only one (mandatory) payment of as little as $50 (5 cents an hour at 1,000 hours of gameplay, to put it in perspective).

I’ll also buy gems regularly, on top of that.

rapthorne.7345:

Palindrome.8904:

The inequity is the biggest issue because of two parts:

1) New players simply get far more content for the same price.

So the up to 3 years of content you veterans have experienced, much of it unique and non-repeatable, and the thousands of hours players have got out of their base game purchase, count for nothing?

This is the fundamental disagreement I have with this “new players get more” argument. New players are not getting more. New players are not getting 3 years and thousands of hours of enjoyment and unique, non-repeatable content from launch up til now.

The only other game in existence I have played that even comes close to the time I’ve invested in it for a similar price tag to GW2 is Skyrim. I’d buy skyrim all over again if I needed to to get a new DLC for it, because the sheer amount of enjoyment and hours I have got from Skyrim make the price a pittance compared to what I as a customer have got from it.

That’s Skyrim as a single player game without continual development costs, without a huge community modder team to fix all their bugs, without server hosting fees to pay for, without any of the persistent costs asociated with running an MMO.

Am I happy to let new players come in to the game and experience HoT for the same price of me upgrading when I’ve had 10 months (myself, others almost 3 years) and over 1,000 hours of gameplay before HoT has released?

kitten right I am, I can’t wait to get several thousand more hours of gameplay from HoT for only one (mandatory) payment of as little as $50 (5 cents an hour at 1,000 hours of gameplay, to put it in perspective).

I’ll also buy gems regularly, on top of that.

There are a couple of counters you can choose to accept or not, it’s really a matter of perception:

1) Was the added content worth the initial cost?
2) I would argue that I didn’t pay anything for added content. I paid for the initial game, anything beyond that is bonus.

Plus the real issue:

HoT is the base game now. There is no option to not purchase the base game. The only way to make use of the full value is to make a new account.

but it’s not been released yet .-.

I wrote something akin to this before, but with the forums being all wonky on and off, I’m not sure it ever got posted.

As to the inequality issue:

Everyone, new and not-so-new get exactly the same thing. A serial code that offers two choices – create a new account that includes the core game and HoT expansion, or upgrade an existing account with HoT expansion.

New players and old players both get this same product. Unfortunately, the new players have less choice than existing players, as they can not upgrade their existing account because they don’t have one. They have to start from scratch. Veteran players don’t have to start from scratch; they can use all their existing characters, all their existing resources and wealth, and be far ahead of the new players when it comes to HoT, or any part of the game, really. Veterans can, if they so desire, use their serial code to start from scratch just like new players with a fresh account and 5 empty character slots. They can create 5 Revenants, if they so desire, once HoT is live.

If anyone is getting the short end of the stick, it’s kind of the new players. They don’t really have a choice like Vets, and they have a long road to go to catch up to the Vets.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I wrote something akin to this before, but with the forums being all wonky on and off, I’m not sure it ever got posted.

As to the inequality issue:

Everyone, new and not-so-new get exactly the same thing. A serial code that offers two choices – create a new account that includes the core game and HoT expansion, or upgrade an existing account with HoT expansion.

New players and old players both get this same product. Unfortunately, the new players have less choice than existing players, as they can not upgrade their existing account because they don’t have one. They have to start from scratch. Veteran players don’t have to start from scratch; they can use all their existing characters, all their existing resources and wealth, and be far ahead of the new players when it comes to HoT, or any part of the game, really. Veterans can, if they so desire, use their serial code to start from scratch just like new players with a fresh account and 5 empty character slots. They can create 5 Revenants, if they so desire, once HoT is live.

If anyone is getting the short end of the stick, it’s kind of the new players. They don’t really have a choice like Vets, and they have a long road to go to catch up to the Vets.

since you seem quite knowledgeable about the code thing, do i have to re download once HOT is live, or i can use the same launcher and it auto updates to HOT, since i bought it? or is that a dev question? ><

steve.2945:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I wrote something akin to this before, but with the forums being all wonky on and off, I’m not sure it ever got posted.

As to the inequality issue:

Everyone, new and not-so-new get exactly the same thing. A serial code that offers two choices – create a new account that includes the core game and HoT expansion, or upgrade an existing account with HoT expansion.

New players and old players both get this same product. Unfortunately, the new players have less choice than existing players, as they can not upgrade their existing account because they don’t have one. They have to start from scratch. Veteran players don’t have to start from scratch; they can use all their existing characters, all their existing resources and wealth, and be far ahead of the new players when it comes to HoT, or any part of the game, really. Veterans can, if they so desire, use their serial code to start from scratch just like new players with a fresh account and 5 empty character slots. They can create 5 Revenants, if they so desire, once HoT is live.

If anyone is getting the short end of the stick, it’s kind of the new players. They don’t really have a choice like Vets, and they have a long road to go to catch up to the Vets.

since you seem quite knowledgeable about the code thing, do i have to re download once HOT is live, or i can use the same launcher and it auto updates to HOT, since i bought it? or is that a dev question? ><

thus far they have been patching in HoT content piece by piece. everyone will use the same game version, but those without HoT can’t access the HoT content. they still download it to their clients, though.

Vayne.8563:

One of the big issues almost all MMOs face in gaining new people is the barriers to entry and there are a lot of them. Anet has tried to fix this by including the original game in HoT. They are including it for free, because they want people to get into the world. This drives gem sales which funds the game between expansions.

By removing even a single entry barrier, more people enter the world which is good for everyone who plays the game. Giving away the game isn’t a slap in the face to Veteran players, it’s something that’s good for veteran players. Let’s say someone buys the game from this point on. I can bring them into my guild now. They can come to my guild hall. They can become part of my family.

The other way, every time I recruit someone I have to ask if they have Heart of Thorns. If they don’t, they won’t be able to be with the guild when the game launches.

There are so many barriers to entry for new players in MMOs. New players are years behind some of us in the acquisition of gold and skins. I can easily buy a 90 gold skin from the TP if I want, for a new player, those skins will be out of reach for a much longer time, and in addition to that, many of the skins aren’t even available anymore.

All the content in Hot and all the content that will be added moving forward is for veteran players, but the decision to include the game for free benefits veteran players as well.

I don’t get why this is so hard for people to understand.

If they had said they were giving the game away to new players and still left the option to buy the standalone game that would be fine.

As it is the purchase page says that HoT comes with the base game.
When you apply the serial key it tells you that you are getting the base game, even if you’re upgrading your base game. Then it says you don’t get it because you already have it.

If they are giving the base game with HoT you shouldn’t lose out because you already have it. You should get an extra key you can give to a friend. Plus that would bring a lot of new players into the game that don’t want to spend $50 right now but still have the potential to purchase gems or HoT later. Anet is just being stupid.

Cathbadb.6079:

Take a look at the Arena Net website, just the front page ( https://www.arena.net/ ) and tell me does that not look like a happy place? Just from looks alone I would rather work there than where I do now. It looks so inviting. These people have a passion for this game and here we are slinging mud at their “baby” all because of our sense of entitlement. For shame!

Lol… don’t be fooled.

Do you think any official website wants to give you any other impression other than it being a super happy funtime workplace that also happens to be the best ever etc etc?

There’s a lot more to it than what you see there. All businesses have their secrets that they don’t want you to find out. ArenaNet is no different in this case.

I don’t mind your super optimistic point of view with this, but sometimes a reality check is in order.

As for the rest of the post… I don’t feel like this is the beginning of a healthy discussion. You do not know the aftermath of the expansion and you criticize others for lashing out about the preordering and basically implying they are being childish, but I don’t see your behavior as any better OP.

Bragging about something that has yet to happen is pretty pointless if you ask me.

rapthorne.7345:

So the up to 3 years of content you veterans have experienced, much of it unique and non-repeatable, and the thousands of hours players have got out of their base game purchase, count for nothing?

Yep. It’s completely, utterly irrelevant.

The facts are:

New players:

• Have zero.
• Pay 50$
• Get 2 things (core + HoT)
• End with 2 things.

Current players:

• Have 1 thing (core).
• Pay 50$
• Get… 1 thing?
• End with 2 things (core + Hot).

For new players, 0 + 50$ payment = 2 things.

For current players, 1 thing + 50 payment = 2 things.

You cannot counter-argument this. It’s a fact, plain and simple.

If ArenaNet gave current players one extra copy of the core game when purchasing HoT, it would be less bad. Honestly, it wouldn’t still be that great, but it could be used as a second account or as a gift to a friend (leaving us with even more new players than the current HoT scheme will give the game). But nope.

And the “but you have been enjoying the game for the last 3 years”? BS. Tell that to the people who bought GW2 two months ago, or three months ago, or four months ago. What do they get? Living World Season 1? Nah, it’s gone. Living World Season 2? Nah, they have to pay extra for it. Do they get to experience GW2 without the NPE? Nope. Did they get to experience the game with a proper, not broken storyline? Nope, because it was broken then and is still broken now.

This “prepurchase” scheme is screwing up especially everyone who bought GW2 this year. Your “3 years of content” claim is completely irrelevant for them.

Palindrome.8904:

HoT is the base game now. There is no option to not purchase the base game. The only way to make use of the full value is to make a new account.

Where is this written? Who has made this claim? The ONLY word I’ve seen from ANet on this topic is that the expansion is the price point and the core game is a bonus. Considering we’re talking about a pre-purchase here that would indicate it is a pre-purchase bonus.

The fact that you can’t access the core game from the site doesn’t discount the fact that you can still buy it from anywhere else that isn’t here. Just google guild wars 2 and you’ll get plenty of options to buy.

Right now ANet is trying to sell their Pre-purchase on the expansion. Added to the fact that they are offering the core game as a bonus, they don’t want people who are uninformed and negligent to accidentally buy the core game in preparation to pre-purchase (like most of the people who have purchased the game since the expansion was announced.) Those are really the only people who are getting hurt by all this.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Palindrome.8904:

HoT is the base game now. There is no option to not purchase the base game. The only way to make use of the full value is to make a new account.

Where is this written? Who has made this claim? The ONLY word I’ve seen from ANet on this topic is that the expansion is the price point and the core game is a bonus. Considering we’re talking about a pre-purchase here that would indicate it is a pre-purchase bonus.

The fact that you can’t access the core game from the site doesn’t discount the fact that you can still buy it from anywhere else that isn’t here. Just google guild wars 2 and you’ll get plenty of options to buy.

Right now ANet is trying to sell their Pre-purchase on the expansion. Added to the fact that they are offering the core game as a bonus, they don’t want people who are uninformed and negligent to accidentally buy the core game in preparation to pre-purchase (like most of the people who have purchased the game since the expansion was announced.) Those are really the only people who are getting hurt by all this.

From the FAQ:

Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?
A: Yes, but Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the Guild Wars 2 core game.

Two possibilities:
1) This is indefinite (otherwise it would specify given the fact that they just edited this item to specify the inclusion)
2) Whoever is responsible for this FAQ page isn’t terribly competent and it is temporary but they didn’t mention this (which would just be more bad PR later)

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

We’ll just have to see how it goes.

Honestly I’m not even all that against this being the case. When the core game is being sold for $10, like it was not that long ago, and it’s been three years, it’s time to bundle it into the expansion. It’s just that normally the expansion has also already been out for a while.

vincecontix.1264:

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

It is not a free bonus unless ANet continues to sell the vanilla game on its own. As it stands, all information points to HoT being the base game. That’s the core of the issue. New players buy this new base game with all possible content. Existing players buy this new base game and effectively throw away a large part of the purchase because you can’t have double vanilla. This, of course, assumes existing players won’t throw away progress and just start a new account with HoT.

Point would be moot if:
- The vanilla game was a second code separate from the HoT upgrade.
- The vanilla game was available with no purchase at all.

Kal Spiro.9745:

We’ll just have to see how it goes.

Honestly I’m not even all that against this being the case. When the core game is being sold for $10, like it was not that long ago, and it’s been three years, it’s time to bundle it into the expansion. It’s just that normally the expansion has also already been out for a while.

And that’s perfectly fine. Many people simply aren’t okay with it being the case, hence the anger/disappointment. As long as you sift through all the ’it’s too expensive’ or ‘not enough content’ posts and the like.

WoodenPotatoes HoT pre-purchase review clears up a few misunderstanding and sum things up well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Mallis.4295:

Vayne.8563:

One of the big issues almost all MMOs face in gaining new people is the barriers to entry and there are a lot of them. Anet has tried to fix this by including the original game in HoT. They are including it for free, because they want people to get into the world. This drives gem sales which funds the game between expansions.

By removing even a single entry barrier, more people enter the world which is good for everyone who plays the game. Giving away the game isn’t a slap in the face to Veteran players, it’s something that’s good for veteran players. Let’s say someone buys the game from this point on. I can bring them into my guild now. They can come to my guild hall. They can become part of my family.

The other way, every time I recruit someone I have to ask if they have Heart of Thorns. If they don’t, they won’t be able to be with the guild when the game launches.

There are so many barriers to entry for new players in MMOs. New players are years behind some of us in the acquisition of gold and skins. I can easily buy a 90 gold skin from the TP if I want, for a new player, those skins will be out of reach for a much longer time, and in addition to that, many of the skins aren’t even available anymore.

All the content in Hot and all the content that will be added moving forward is for veteran players, but the decision to include the game for free benefits veteran players as well.

I don’t get why this is so hard for people to understand.

If they had said they were giving the game away to new players and still left the option to buy the standalone game that would be fine.

As it is the purchase page says that HoT comes with the base game.
When you apply the serial key it tells you that you are getting the base game, even if you’re upgrading your base game. Then it says you don’t get it because you already have it.

If they are giving the base game with HoT you shouldn’t lose out because you already have it. You should get an extra key you can give to a friend. Plus that would bring a lot of new players into the game that don’t want to spend $50 right now but still have the potential to purchase gems or HoT later. Anet is just being stupid.

It’s what most MMOs do after time. They don’t make you buy every single expansion up to the current one. It would be too much of a barrier to entry.

So how would you feel if they had two different versions, at the same price? It’s a ridiculous comment. They’re not charging more. It’s the same price anyway.

OP thinks Anet would be a nice place to work because its website looks cool. Seriously?!

By the way, OP’s argument boils down to “If you don’t buy the game, I’m going to taunt you with my new Legendary.”