Guild Wars 2

I think being able to group / party up with our character creations as hero’s, as we had in GW would be great. No more solo after solo, and futile LFG waiting. If it was good enough in GW, then why not in GW2?

That’d be cool… but they would have to make a major update to follower AI on here… heros had much better AI in GW2 than the followers we do have here for story missions…

GW2 is designed to be multi-player, to allow for pick-up groups. GW1 was designed for 8-person parties (with two larger and a few smaller instances). I’m sure many people would enjoy it; it’s just not how this game is configured.

I thought it would be cool if we got to gear and set builds for dragons watch memebers next expansion.

I don’t think based on current game design that this could be possible open world. However, if they had them available from a dungeon lobby so people could get dungeons done that would be awesome. GW2 is built off of the GW1 engine so the possibility is there for that.

I’ve played since launch but still don’t have all the dungeon paths done. And, now that I have a kid potty training, don’t want to make other people wait while I deal with real life. With henchies I could AFK for a bit and they wouldn’t care…maybe just get bored.

They nearly had that system, or rather a smaller version of it for open world PvE.

Companions and side kicks
The heroes and henchmen from Guild Wars will no longer be utilized. Instead every player will be able to have one companion who won’t take up a slot within the group. The developers will give you the alternative to invest part of your power into your companion instead of your character – similar to a pet or a hero. In addition Guild Wars 2 will feature a side-kick system similar to the one from City of Heroes. Using this, the attributes of the character with a lower level will be boosted by the player with the highest level in the group. This is helpful when questing together or when participating in World PvP (more in fact 5) early in the game.

But then they changed their minds.

Eric Flannum

Very early in development, we realized that with a persistent world, we could not afford to allow each character to be accompanied by a large group of NPC. We worked on what we call the system “companion” where each player has a single companion headed by AI. Having played a lot with this system and gradually as the professions have evolved, it became clear that we did not need the companion system to allow players to play through the solo.If Guild Wars 2 is such a solo experience, this is mainly due to the design of our professions and the dynamic balance of content.

Our professions are sufficient in themselves. Every profession has a form of self care. We have designed so that they propose and fun combinations can be optionally combined with other professions without relying on them in the game solo. For example, an Elementalist can create a wall of flames to a warrior could shoot arrows through. The flaming arrows then cause more damage. This combination is not essential for the effective warrior with his bow, but it is fun and works well.

The content of our events and history are dynamically balanced. A good example of this can be met in an event that we played there a few days in office. We needed to protect workers engaged in repairing a building with a group of bandits. Initially, only some of us were fighting, and thus a handful of bandits appeared. But as and when the players joined the fray, we had an increase of 20 to 30 bandits attack the workers on all sides. With the balance of dynamic content, we can just as easily accommodate a single player that whole groups who want to participate in the same content.

Because of all these factors, we finally decided that we did not need the companion system and we focused on making really cool occupations that use familiar (of course, we return to this point when we will unveil occupations concerned).

Maybe they could reconsider it for dungeons and stories though. They could sell mercenaries in the gem store for players to gear up for instance use only.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Maybe they could reconsider it for dungeons and stories though. They could sell mercenaries in the gem store for players to gear up for instance use only.

I’m sure people would spend gems on it, although likely not enough to pay for designing the system.

However, I doubt ANet would go for it this year — they’ve alread nerfed the story NPCs (Anise or Kasmeer et al), stating that they want the player to fight the AI, not have the AI fight itself

Hello !

I had a thread about this some months ago. It’s a popular idea, and I wish it was possible to hire henchmens for dungeons or whatever instancied content.

Yet, I’m really afraid about it. I’m playing story currently, and in most fight cases, all my allies are standing idle while I fight alone. The AI is frightening, and my companions unfortunately are deadweights. Maybe some day, they’ll learn and code significant henchmen (or remember how they did in GW1). Maybe for GW3 ?

NPC henchmen are a bad idea for GW2, because they don’t fit to any part of the game. AI currently is bloody stupid, so that would require a massive overhaul, and then it’s a very thin line between the NPCs being sufficiently helpful and becoming overpowered. There are better things to spend development resources on – this is a MMO, after all.

ThomasC.1056:

Maybe some day, they’ll learn and code significant henchmen (or remember how they did in GW1). Maybe for GW3 ?

The henchmen in GW1 didn’t have to dodge attacks, nor did they have so many skills to use. It was just a simple 8-skill skillbar. The AI in GW1 wouldn’t work at all in GW2

maddoctor.2738:

ThomasC.1056:

Maybe some day, they’ll learn and code significant henchmen (or remember how they did in GW1). Maybe for GW3 ?

The henchmen in GW1 didn’t have to dodge attacks, nor did they have so many skills to use. It was just a simple 8-skill skillbar. The AI in GW1 wouldn’t work at all in GW2

Sure it only was a simple 8-skills skillbar, but you could adjust it to your needs. It’s not even a question of chosing what skills any henchmen should have. Of course, GW1 system wouldn’t work with GW2. Yet, in GW1, when I called a target (Ctrl+T), my henchmen went and attacked it ! In GW2, you may have the whole crew of NPC’s, itzels, edge of destiny, dragon’s watch, a tin cauldron and a platypus, none of them will move a toe eventhough you’re attacking.

I’d love a hero system. I truly would. But current NPC AI is just dreadful.

ThomasC.1056:

Sure it only was a simple 8-skills skillbar, but you could adjust it to your needs. It’s not even a question of chosing what skills any henchmen should have.

I meant it as the AI only had to choose between 8 skills to use, the AI had nothing to do with choosing those 8 skills. And second, in GW1 you paused to use your skills, which also made in simplistic for the AI to use it. Moreover placement of Skills wasn’t an issue in GW1 since most skills worked on targets while in GW2 more often than not you need to use your skill without a target. Also, prioritize which skill(s) to dodge and which ones to avoid, or when to use specific skills.
What I’m saying is that if GW1 AI require X amount of work to make it good, GW2 would need 100 times that.

How would the heroes deal with various puzzles or situations with chaotic combat mechanics?

Example: You take your 4 heroes to Underground facility fractal where 2 players have to stand on platforms while they are being attacked by dredge while 3th player needs to use a console to open a door.

Example 2: You take your party to Thaumanova Reactor fractal where the bosses attacks destroy platforms under you and if you fall into the reactor core there is a 99,9% change that you die.

Coinhead.7591:

How would the heroes deal with various puzzles or situations with chaotic combat mechanics?

Example: You take your 4 heroes to Underground facility fractal where 2 players have to stand on platforms while they are being attacked by dredge while 3th player needs to use a console to open a door.

Example 2: You take your party to Thaumanova Reactor fractal where the bosses attacks destroy platforms under you and if you fall into the reactor core there is a 99,9% change that you die.

GW1 had a wonderful system called “Rally Points,” you could place individual ones for each hero or place one for a group.
Example 1: You’d set your rally points on the platforms for your hero’s while you operate the console.
Example2: You’d use group rally points to move your heroes to new platforms, or the AI would be programmed to deal with that specific mechanic in that specific fractal. It’s not unreasonable to encode specific case commands for specific mechanics in specific instances. They did it in GW1, also, the AI companions we do get in Story missions already have these case specific commands… If only they would make the existing AI companions actually attack when YOU attack or are attacked, instead of only when ONE OF THEM is attacked…

maddoctor.2738:

ThomasC.1056:

Maybe some day, they’ll learn and code significant henchmen (or remember how they did in GW1). Maybe for GW3 ?

The henchmen in GW1 didn’t have to dodge attacks, nor did they have so many skills to use. It was just a simple 8-skill skillbar. The AI in GW1 wouldn’t work at all in GW2

actually Anet had to balance the heroes to deal with allot more skills then there are currently in GW2, it would be easier to implant then the GW1 version.
the only part they have to add is the jump and dodge part but that’s easier then every single individual skill.

Heros in PvE? Didnt thought this mode could get more easier than it already is.
[x] No Heros

sorudo.9054:

maddoctor.2738:

ThomasC.1056:

Maybe some day, they’ll learn and code significant henchmen (or remember how they did in GW1). Maybe for GW3 ?

The henchmen in GW1 didn’t have to dodge attacks, nor did they have so many skills to use. It was just a simple 8-skill skillbar. The AI in GW1 wouldn’t work at all in GW2

actually Anet had to balance the heroes to deal with allot more skills then there are currently in GW2, it would be easier to implant then the GW1 version.
the only part they have to add is the jump and dodge part but that’s easier then every single individual skill.

That’s not really true. First, GW2 has more skills to worry about than GW1 due to how professions work in GW2, profession mechanics, chain skills and weapon swap. Second, the responses of the AI in GW1 weren’t very intelligent. See that guy is casting a skill, let’s interrupt it, regardless of what skill actually it is. Prioritization of skills wasn’t good in GW1, and using skills proactively wasn’t good either, for example using Protective Spirit on someone about to take a Meteor in the face wasn’t something the AI of GW1 could handle. The AI of GW1 was simple and didn’t have to deal with things that are actually hard for an Artificial intelligence. On the other hand, making an AI with actual active movement in a 3D environment, that’s the hard part of creating artificial intelligence and there are more than enough encounters in GW2 that an AI couldn’t possible help with no matter how much you try.

There is a reason the 7-hero meta builds were what they were. Full of passive skills, fire and forget protect skills and interrupts. Because that’s what the AI was good at but was terrible at anything else.

You do realize the Devs deliberately scaled back the participation of NPCs in instances/story episodes/etc. a year to two ago, so that they did not contribute much in combat, anymore.

It’s not a matter of ‘not knowing how to code the AI’.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You do realize the Devs deliberately scaled back the participation of NPCs in instances/story episodes/etc. a year to two ago, so that they did not contribute much in combat, anymore.

I must have missed the NPCs ever reasonably contributing to getting stuff done. They always felt like level 1 mobs thrown into a level 80 instance.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You do realize the Devs deliberately scaled back the participation of NPCs in instances/story episodes/etc. a year to two ago, so that they did not contribute much in combat, anymore.

It’s not a matter of ‘not knowing how to code the AI’.

They did more than “scale back” they made them outright ignore everything that’s happening to and around you… they won’t even lift a finger to help you unless you physically drag them into the line of fire.

Indeed.

Panda.1967:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You do realize the Devs deliberately scaled back the participation of NPCs in instances/story episodes/etc. a year to two ago, so that they did not contribute much in combat, anymore.

It’s not a matter of ‘not knowing how to code the AI’.

They did more than “scale back” they made them outright ignore everything that’s happening to and around you… they won’t even lift a finger to help you unless you physically drag them into the line of fire.

Yes, that was the idea. The developers decided that the player characters should be more responsible for success (or failure) — previously, it was frequently possible to let the NPCs do most of the work and sometimes all of it.

It feels odd, because we’re used to the old way (and because the NPCs are just standing there, like leeching alt account toons). That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily bad for the game. (Mind you: I’m not entirely convinced it’s good for the game either — I just don’t think it matters all that much in the long run.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Panda.1967:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You do realize the Devs deliberately scaled back the participation of NPCs in instances/story episodes/etc. a year to two ago, so that they did not contribute much in combat, anymore.

It’s not a matter of ‘not knowing how to code the AI’.

They did more than “scale back” they made them outright ignore everything that’s happening to and around you… they won’t even lift a finger to help you unless you physically drag them into the line of fire.

Yes, that was the idea. The developers decided that the player characters should be more responsible for success (or failure) — previously, it was frequently possible to let the NPCs do most of the work and sometimes all of it.

It feels odd, because we’re used to the old way (and because the NPCs are just standing there, like leeching alt account toons). That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily bad for the game. (Mind you: I’m not entirely convinced it’s good for the game either — I just don’t think it matters all that much in the long run.)

They could have handled it much better… reduce damage output from AI companions… reduce their health and armor… make them less effective… but to make them just stand around and watch as you get murdered without lifting a finger to help was definately the wrong direction…

Making the player more responsible for the success of a mission is fine… but not when it is accomplished by making the AI companions do absolutely nothing 90% of the time… It’s actually the worst on rangers… Attack an enemy at a distance, your pet runs out and attacks, the AI companions stop, you try to lead them into an AoE, they don’t move, you try to pull enemies towards them but you’re pet keeps holding them at bay even when you tell your pet to come to you for some stupid reason your pet charges back out and keeps the enemies away from your AI companions, and on top of that when you finally do get your pet over to them they run the opposite direction and stand just outside of every AoE making it impossible to pull them into the fight and you spend more time trying to get them to help than it would have taken to just kill things on your own…

Perhaps, that was the intention; ‘to just kill things on your own’.

Please no heroes, they are one of the reasons why I couldn’t get into GW1. As a longtime MMO fan, I want to play with real people. Hence the double M in MMORPG: massively multiplayer! If you want to play with NPC companions, try a single player RPG.