Guild Wars 2

How about you?

Had an incident this past week where someone had a character that was almost dead when I went in to help, basically told me to kitten off and leave the area because I hit their mob once. They were doing their dodge daily.

Four cases where I observed something similar happening to other players who ran in to help someone who had a veteran and 1-2 extra mobs on them.

Some folks are polite. Others aren’t.

Realize this is behavioral and therefore “outside” of ANet’s concerns, even though the potential consequences of this daily addition may lead to negatively impacting the much-vaunted “community-oriented” value.

It’s pretty obvious what is occuring when someone is soloing an (almost now widely extinct) Moa. (straightface). Other mobs, like veterans, not so much. Particularly combined with the veteran daily.

I’m curious, how many of you are going to be more cautious now? How many won’t let it stop them, and how many will take the opportunity to “grief”?

And how many of you will be polite when asking others to “back off”?

oh, and how many would let the player die so you could revive them for that daily?

Yes, there is a lot of assuming and judgement call about whether another player actually needs help or not.

Personally I wouldn’t let the chance of a player doing a pretty easy daily affect the way I play. And if I were doing my daily dodge that way I sure wouldn’t yell at other players if they choose to hop in. It’s an MMO you can’t control people and you shouldn’t let them control you.

First off, I never tell players to back off. I enjoy playing with the other players too much. I like how you do not have to be in a party to rez someone. And I always appreciate the fact that they took the time to help me.

if you’re thief use shadow assault underwater and finish it instantly if you wanna do it quickly.

Ah, but the dailies are driving perverse behavior, thus changing the norms in the community, and more importantly causing confusion about what the norms should be.

This is a community, I’d like to think I’m a caring part of that, but it gets confusing when perverse incentives cause players to want to die, or drag out combat trying to extract imperfect recognition of dodges from the game engine (the moas work really well because that breath of theirs is long enough that the server recognizes the dodge as having occurred during the spell, when for most mechanics like a sword swing the server can be a second or two off of what’s happening on my screen).

The old dailies amounted to random reinforcement of what we were already doing. These require behavior changes — and just like WoW taught arena players to use LoS exploits instead of actually playing better, these dailies are teaching players to do far less than optimal combat and far less than optimal teamwork. (BTW I detest WoW arena because skill should be more important than exploiting the weaknesses of the game engine.)

Eh, not dodge, but I got read the riot act on my baby Thief for actually killing some wolves eating on some villagers. Guess I’m supposed to just stand there now, let em die, and let people get rez credit. Very heroic behavior.

I’m a little troubled by some of the incentive structures created here as well, and for a reason that should probably send up some red flags—it’s immersion-breaking!

The entire premise behind our character’s stories is that we’re heroes that go out to save the day, and that we’re here to help people.

Well, I came across a pack of NPCs fighting a series of mobs. The daily was 0/10 allies revived.

For the first time that I can remember in this game, I realized I could do my daily much faster by standing there and watching those allied NPCs die. So I did. Then I revived them, and realized that by training aggro onto them, thereby killing them in the process, I could complete it all in one go.

It’s a little frustrating that the incentive structure for our “good guy” story-driven game is now “play evil and grief.”

I’m worried what happens the next time I run into another player in a similar situation… or when another player runs into me.

Yes, letting things deliberately die in order to do a daily just goes against every value held as tank, healer, shield maiden, support, etcetera in every MMO I’ve played for over a dozen plus years.

It’s…. uncomfortable.

Yet, it is now efficient. Especially, as you point out, regarding revive.

I suppose from a lore perspective, we can be heroes that have been momentarily corrupted and praise Zhaitan for providing fodder for our dailies?

;)

I could care less if someone gets made cause I took their precious dodge mob(s). I like helping people in the game and I’m not going to calculate whether they’re trying to get a dodge accomplishment if they’re low on health. I’m going to focus on what’s doing damage to them.

If moving to another mob or waiting for the short respawn timers is too much of a pain to them to the point they get upset at someone, they have more to worry about in life than someone hindering them in an effort to help.

In fact just a bit ago I was working on my dodge daily in the grub cave in queensdale. I was down to half health and someone came by and killed the grubs attacking me. I said thanks and watched them move on to killing something else. I then just attacked a few more and continued dodging. No big deal…

The dailies are driving it now, because people are too stupid to realize it’s not that hard. You should be able to get the dodging daily at very last just playing. The rezzing daily doesn’t require people to jump of cliffs for each other either. This behavior is new because the dailies are new and as they get older and people realize they don’t have to (and probably shouldn’t) do it this way will change it back to how it was.

Give it two more weeks and this behavior will be practically not existent…because it’s not more efficient than just playing.

I get my dailies done just by playing naturally. Some players like to cheese it but I don’t understand why they would, do they get no enjoyment out of playing the game and just play a tick and flick sheet of tasks? sounds boring.

goldenwinga.5417:

Yes, letting things deliberately die in order to do a daily just goes against every value held as tank, healer, shield maiden, support, etcetera in every MMO I’ve played for over a dozen plus years.

It’s…. uncomfortable.

Yet, it is now efficient. Especially, as you point out, regarding revive.

I suppose from a lore perspective, we can be heroes that have been momentarily corrupted and praise Zhaitan for providing fodder for our dailies?

;)

Depending on what maps you have available, waiting for people to die is not efficient at all. There’s so many areas where NPC corpses lay around all over. Blazeridge is one such map. There’s 4 areas there that almost always have a lot of NPC corpses littered about.

Matipzieu KyA.9613:

it’s immersion-breaking!

For the first time that I can remember in this game, I realized I could do my daily much faster by standing there and watching those allied NPCs die. So I did. Then I revived them, and realized that by training aggro onto them, thereby killing them in the process, I could complete it all in one go.

Sorry but this seems like an invented problem. If immersion is so important to you, you could have saved the NPCs and gotten your daily done very soon after by just playing the game. Solo PvE, group PvE, dungeons, WvW, however you like to play, the res and dodge dailies will do themselves. It just seems like many ppl are blaming ANet for somehow forcing them to rush through the daily with as little actual playing as possible.

What does it tell you if people are getting upset because you delayed their completion of a daily requirement by a few seconds to a minute?

If the guy just standing there without attacking back, I will just ignore him.
If he is being attacked by a group or a veteren, I will go to help him.

In the case that the OP mentioned, I would have killed the mob anyway and said that I was getting my daily kills :p

“Depending on what maps you have available, waiting for people to die is not efficient at all.”

Gendarran is bristling with level 80 activity around the medic kit area. Agreed, one does not have to wait for people to die. I carefully said “things” (NPCs included). I could say “often”, but “usually” is the word most appropriate here: “usually” there are players waiting for NPCs to die in that area.

I’m assuming it’s ease of location next to Lion’s Arch.

Some really cool dailies i think would be:

Kill X amount of enemies with one or more party members
Complete X amount of dynamic events with one or more party memebrs
Heal X amount to other players

Some dailies that promote teamplay.

Happened to me the other day too. I was in Wayfarer Foothills when I saw an npc being attacked. Noticed another player just standing there but didn’t think much of it and proceeded to kill the mobs. After that I got a whisper by the player telling me that I suck >.<. Apparently he was trying to do his daily rezzing

The dodge dailies aren’t hard to complete at all.. if people get kittened off because you helped kill it a bit… that’s a bit unreasonable. I can easily do dodge dailies without even trying. Rez dailies are also easy.. theres plenty of people dying in the world, rumor says 20 people die every second but 25 are revived in that same second. (i’m kidding but you get my point, it’s not possible to grief players extensively by casually doing your own thing. Also, they should just ask nicely. e.g. one time when we had the combo kill daily still, I was trying to work out which combos work or not with my friend, and this guy came along and I explained to him nicely what I was doing and he understood and moved along. It’s not too hard, rather using anger and harsh tone makes that person feel much less obliged to cease.

Just tell them you’re doing your daily kills.

I’m not going to change what I’m doing unless it’s really clear the other person is trying to get a daily done.

I’m hoping that most of these silly dailies are just place holders for more interesting things to come; some things that will bring us together in certian zones or events, guess we’ll see.

Lol, you might have come across me tanking dolyaks for the dodge daily. I got pretty kitten when somebody came up and attacked all 5 of them. Why? There was only a few minutes left in the daily and I wanted to get it done.

Anyway, I’d totally just let people die now to get the res daily too. Once I walked up to a dead guy and he said, “rez daily?” and I replied, “yeah, dodge daily?”, he answered, “you know it”. The new GW2!

Tell them to go to Kessex Hills. There’s a village by the water that’s constantly attacked by krait. Even when it’s not being attacked, npcs drop dead all by themselves. You can easily get your daily heals there.

Wait, people get mad about this? it isn’t a tough daily :/ Though I suppose that is subjective.

Both today and a few days ago I didn’t realize someone was trying they dodge daily and ran it and ‘helped’ them. I then backed off when I realized they weren’t attacking at all, and said sorry. Both times I got a response like “^^ np” or “all good”

Earlier today I needed to finish my dodges as well, so I found some harpies in Queensdale and started dodging around. One guy came up, realized it and joined in XD Then another guy comes in and kills them all. No big deal, me and the other dude just kept dodging until they were dead, and ran off to find more enemies. All of this was done without a word from all 3 of us.

I didn’t know people would get so worked up about this stuff o.o However, to answer your question..yes I am a bit more hesitant to help people now on first glance.

goldenwinga.5417:

Yes, letting things deliberately die in order to do a daily just goes against every value held as tank, healer, shield maiden, support, etcetera in every MMO I’ve played for over a dozen plus years.

It’s…. uncomfortable.

Yet, it is now efficient. Especially, as you point out, regarding revive.

I suppose from a lore perspective, we can be heroes that have been momentarily corrupted and praise Zhaitan for providing fodder for our dailies?

;)

I uh… I think you may have got into this whole ‘morality’ thing for the wrong reasons…

Nobody has the right to be complaining that someone else killed their mob.

How are we suppose to know they were working on Daily Dodger?

I kite around mobs for the Dodger task too, and I would never yell at someone for killing them. I’d be a little annoyed sure, but I know full well there’s nobody to blame, I just have to find another set of mobs to kite around.

I just ignore those players and play as I normally do. Every map has at least one or two areas where dead NPCs are constantly spawning, enabling you to complete the Res Daily with relative ease. Shaemoor Garrison in Queensdale is an excellent example of this; there are lots of dead Seraph around for you to res, and you only get bothered by the occasional Centaur (who, incidentally, are also an excellent enemy to get your Dodge daily from as most of their attacks are easily telegraphed. Not as easy as Wurms, but still a good choice).

Some events also generate a ton of dead NPCs, like the town of Nageling when it’s under attack. The other day I and a few other players just slowly followed the Giant around ressing dead NPCs and sending them back into battle to watch them get stomped by the Giant, then picking them back up and sending them back into the battle again. I think we could actually have killed the Giant in this fashion eventually, but it would have taken us ages. XD

The Dodge daily actually annoys me more as my builds typically don’t require me to dodge very much, forcing me to alter my playstyle to complete the challenge. (For some of my guildies, it’s the Daily Crafter that bugs them, since they either hate crafting or have completed all the crafting they ever wanted to do.) Still, Phase 2 of the update will change it so that you only need to complete 4/6 of the challenges to get the reward, so I’m willing to stick it out for a few weeks.

goldenwinga.5417:

How about you?

Had an incident this past week where someone had a character that was almost dead when I went in to help, basically told me to kitten off and leave the area because I hit their mob once. They were doing their dodge daily

…. snip

Report for foul language, block, go on your way. If someone is so rude as to tell you to kitten off (I assume the kitten in this is a curse word) then they neither deserve your help or understanding.

I haven’t encountered the OP’s scenario, but I did encounter some people who were not that amused that I prevented some refugees from getting killed (because they wanted to rez them). They were nice about it and all, but I can see how I might inadvertently interrupt people trying to get an achievement or do their dailies that would be less nice about it.

Aren’t Dodge and Heal on the same days? Kinda makes up for the arrogance part of the dodge mentality. Wait for them to die (completely if you can ), then get your dodge daily off their mob, and then if they haven’t ported out, heal them right up for a point!

I get my dodge off elementals in a highly populated elemental area so I’m in no danger of not having a dodge partner, someone comes in and knocks one off, I just get another.

If you see someone who isn’t attacking while being attacked, just let them have their moment, or bring a train with you and see if they can max out their dodge in a couple moves If they can’t, you get a free heal! Win-Win!

I go to Diessa Plateau for my dodge daily. The Nageling giant event is up pretty often and you have to dodge or block his attacks. Plus there’s tons of NPCs to revive for that daily as well. I don’t see why everyone doesn’t do something like that.

Frostgorge sound FTW
Outside the hotw entrance are 3 events + dragon event
With under water kill and reviving,
T5/6 wood and ore,
The ice wurm’s rock throw attack counts 2 dodge
Many creature type

This is disgusting I think, but you can’t blame Anet for that it’s just a sort of person you bumped into, I personally did my dodger by just doing the Ethernal BG JP, the place where you dodge the fire spitting heads… whatever they are.

Anyways, I see your point tho, if you did that to me I’d just tell you what I was doing, I mean there was no way you could have possibly known he was doing daily dodger.

Funny, this happened to me in Orr the other day. I saw someone being attacked and went to help. After killing the three or so Risen he said "No! I was doing the daily dodge! " So I replied “Gah. I’m sorry.” And went on my way as more Risen popped in. Not a bad exchange really, but being a guard, I don’t kill super fast. I wish they had said “Doing DD!” See, I’d have stopped then and used kit to lose aggro and got out of there.

I’ll still help NPCs and still help people that look like they are getting mashed as that’s just how I play. But honestly, there are some great zones to get DD and Rezing very very easily. Frostgorge comes right to mind. If you have only a bit of time left before dailies roll over I can see being a bit upset, but being rude to someone that was trying to help doesn’t seem like the right way. Instead you could, I don’t know, ask them to please train mobs to you? I certainly would to try and help, especially after messing up their DD.

It’s a game. We’re all here for fun. At least, I hope that’s why we are here.

The new dailies are counter-productive and counter-intuitive and they certainly have a negative impact on game culture. They are just another facet of Anet making it up as the move the game forward as opposed to evolving the game from a compelling design philosophy. We, sadly, are the victims of their choices in the matter.

I assumed the daily dodge is there to maily to make people who don’t use this ability enough, to be more aware of that.

Your case calls for an answer like: “me no english well, i r hindu”.

I’m not going to change anything about the way I play because of people like this. If I see someone fighting with a mob that I otherwise had no intentions to kill, I’m going to go about my business. If they seem to be having trouble with the mob, or their fight is directly in my path, I’ll get involved and help. I feel like a lazy bum if I just run right through the fight like it wasn’t happening.

If they happen to be working on their dodge daily, and politely inform me of this, I’ll gladly let them continue unless the mob they have chosen is required for something in my gameplay (heart, event, etc). They can get the dodge daily done with any other mob. I’m not going to go out of my way because someone decided to use the mobs I need to kill for their daily. The same applies for the res/healer daily. Their desire to let mobs kill an NPC is not going to interfer with my need to kill the mob.

Now, if they decide to be rude like the person the OP encountered, I’m very likely to stick around to keep “helping” them kill everything.

I wrote about the counterproductivity of the new dailies in antoher thread. It was about the rez daily. Since I had trouble having my player rezzes register in orr I went to rez npc: s in qd. I let wolves gank 2 npc:s but soon enough another player came to save them. I didnt say anything of course, but for thefirst time in GW2 I was annoyed with another player lol.

Also my behaviour has changed in events. If im done with my heal daily i dont rush to rez others because of the 10 cap. Other player prolly need the heal update.

Regarding dodge: I dont jump in to help against regular mobs bc players usually dont need help with those. I jump in for quick loot opportunity, and i will not change my behavior. Loot is loot!

I absolutely, positively refuse to alter my play style just because some people are so unimaginative that they think they have to manually grind out the individual daily facets. No, I’m not going to get let that village die so you can res them. Yes, if see somebody about to die on a mob I’ll be jumping in to help.

Part of it is just me being a roleplayer at heart, but at the end of the day we’re supposed to be heroes, not opportunists.

Ive only had one person get in my way of doing it, but instead of being an kitten I just moved on. I had been out in queensdale hunting down things while I waited for the shadow swamp creature. (Oh and I’m greatly enjoying all the new folks and giving them the 5 slot bags that drop from vets or others there. Granted I think humans are still the largest group of selected characters just like in August).

I’m not the kind of person to complain, hell, the only time anyone’s been rude to me was when I asked about the halloween doors being stuck open. Honestly, I was so new to everything like a lot of folks still were and just thought people kept opening them. Guy said he’d report me if I kept talking about it just because he knew he was exploiting it and didn’t want to loose his loot.

Its sad all these dailies have changed the behavior of folks. The only thing I’ve done to change it is when folks ask if they can go jump off a cliff for the rez daily (in LA), I tell them to go north or south of it and there’s plenty of NPC’s to rez as a way to actually complete renown hearts. I even link a few WP’s just for easier progression for them. I know it seems easier to jump off and die and rez. For me, i’d rather go out into pve and kill a few things on the way and hope I get a couple rares while doing so from A to B.

:)

haha, yeah its all true. For helping an hour ago at WvWvW, Ogre camp I got a msg straight to me.

“ kitten Man! Stop what your doing! I’m doing the daily!!!!”

Nice isnt it? Remove dodge totally i say…

Rynn.1324:

I absolutely, positively refuse to alter my play style just because some people are so unimaginative that they think they have to manually grind out the individual daily facets. No, I’m not going to get let that village die so you can res them. Yes, if see somebody about to die on a mob I’ll be jumping in to help.

Part of it is just me being a roleplayer at heart, but at the end of the day we’re supposed to be heroes, not opportunists.

Off-topic, but this post coupled with your name made me think of Rynn from the Drakan game series. It struck me that this was SO something she would have said.

Wait… People actually have to intentionally TRY and go out of their way to get the dodge daily?

I get my dodge daily done just through normal play, usually working on the other dailies. I can’t for the life of me understand how standing around letting something try and hit you is efficient. 5 events = dodge daily done. 60 kills = dodge daily done. 13 kill variety = dodge daily done. Running around to gather = most of dodge daily done. etc….

Here’s the obvious solution to that problem. If they are obviously NOT attacking the mob that’s hitting them, and just dodging….then kitten off, and leave them alone….

Indoles.1467:

Lol, you might have come across me tanking dolyaks for the dodge daily. I got pretty kitten when somebody came up and attacked all 5 of them. Why? There was only a few minutes left in the daily and I wanted to get it done.

Anyway, I’d totally just let people die now to get the res daily too. Once I walked up to a dead guy and he said, “rez daily?” and I replied, “yeah, dodge daily?”, he answered, “you know it”. The new GW2!

Down works too, doesn’t have to be death. It’s kinda sad in this manner that people would let someone be defeated for the sake of doing a daily. Even though this is a fantasy world, it’s not something I can just sit around and watch.

i’m gonna say it: some people are craycray. i guess you could always weight the two options (1) rush in and help someone, but get yelled at due to their own agenda or (2) not rush in in fear of being yelled at or CBF but miss out on potentially someone who genuinely needed help.

i’m always going to rush in no matter what. if they yell at you, just /shrug and apologize (if you feel bad enough or just to be courteous, which is what we should alls trive to be!). there will always be people complaining. daily dodger? that’s one daily achiv i don’t feel i ever have to actively try to complete. caus eyou get it done through normal combat.. usually.

though that being said, everyone has a story, and if they’re strapped for time, maybe they had to get in done asap before they had to log for the day. who knows.

wow Op that is not good- this has never happened to me though and I pretty much play exactly like I’ve always played.
I just don’t see the new daylies as a big deal.
It blows my mind though that people will go to such lengths to actively complete them.
The closest I came to seeing this in game was when one player asked in map chat if anyone knew about a good spot to res NPC’s. he got about 3 locations in 2 sec and that was it.
Maybe things will calm down in a couple of weeks when people can wrap their heads around the new concept.

If someone was rude to me for helping I would just leave- and remember the name for later :P

If they are doing it against a mob they are doing it wrong. Do it in WvW one dodge against a zerg and it’s completed