Guild Wars 2

I just got kicked from a dungeon group before it started for “only” having 6k AP. Please, let nobody be able to view other’s AP. Mandatory! That way, nobody can pressure you into opting-in to show others your AP for verification.

dw, i have seen 19k getting kicked, although im 21k myself

well, i dunno how they judge one’s skill with ap alone, they must have psychic.

“brace yourself for …. is coming”

What they are doing is trying to judge how experienced you are. AP is the only way they can have a clue if you’re new or if you’ve been around a while.

If a party only wants players who have been around a while, why do you want to force yourself into a party that you know doesn’t want you? There are plenty of parties that don’t require ap, meta, zerk, whatever. If there isn’t one currently up, you can just make your own party. Let them play how they wish to play.

People will always need a way to judge each other potential performance in a group content, especially in a “challenging group content” that was promised.

If anything, they should give us more options to validate each other performance not less – they should open up our build setup for inspecting (you should also be able to hide it if you feel like it).

If they hide your AP – next thing is gonna be your class, armor/weapon skin or anything really.

AP requirements are stupid as they are but people who complain about it should realize that this is the only way that pugs can currently judge each other.

RubberDougie.2750:

I just got kicked from a dungeon group before it started for “only” having 6k AP. Please, let nobody be able to view other’s AP. Mandatory! That way, nobody can pressure you into opting-in to show others your AP for verification.

Did the LFG post state an AP requirement?

Ayrilana.1396:

RubberDougie.2750:

I just got kicked from a dungeon group before it started for “only” having 6k AP. Please, let nobody be able to view other’s AP. Mandatory! That way, nobody can pressure you into opting-in to show others your AP for verification.

Did the LFG post state an AP requirement?

My first thought upon reading the OP as well.

Either the lFG owner did not communicate expectations well, or the OP chose to ignore them.

A communication issue.

Don’t matter if you have 1k or 24k AP, if someone kicking you only for that reason then laugh at their ignorance and move on. Some people are just kittens, can’t avoid them all.

Anyone who thinks skill is tied to AP is sorely mislead. I’ve been.playing since head start and have 9300 ish AP. I have no interest in chasing AP, if I get points great, if I don’t I could not care less. I have all this AP, but have only done 1 parth in HotW, all of CM, all of AC, 2 paths in SE and 2 in CoF. So I could join a group asking for X amount of AP on a dungeon I’ve never done. So as you can see AP means jack.

Yes ap should be hidden. And those people with high ap does not mean in any way shape or form your good at the game.

I have played sense beta and only have I think 5k ap or something like that. I only get ap if it’s just from normal play I will never farm ap to pretend I’m better. 5k or 500 ap has 0 effect on any players skill. Only proves they do things not every player wants to do.

The amount of AP that someone has is similar to the amount (time) of experience that someone has in a specific job classification. Companies usually require applicants to have a certain number of years of experience. Does this mean that they’ll get applicants that meet that criteria but still lack the skill set? Yes. You can have someone that’s worked 10 years in a position and have they have no idea how to properly do their job. We’ll all encounter someone like this at least once in our lives. So why do they still require it? One reason is that it’s assumed that over the required years, you’d have likely picked up the skills to perform a large portion of the position that was applied for. Most of the time this is true. No job is the same so there can be things that you do not know how to do.

Going back to AP. The higher your AP count, the more likely you will have a player that understands the basics of the game. It’s not used to gauge someone’s ability against a specific path as the sources of AP are so wide-ranging in this game. There’s a fair wide range in skill level for this game between someone who just started compared to someone who has over 6,000 AP.

Another way to think of it (on a smaller scale) is like if you were to play a console game that you were not familiar with. You play it from beginning to end. Was there a skill level difference between when you first started and when you finished the game? Most likely. Does it mean that if that game had an expansion that you’d be a pro at that content? No. It’d just mean that you’d be more capable at doing that content after having gained the skills while beating the original game compared to when you had just started.

Disclaimer: I am not favoring for or against AP being used to filter out people. I personally could care less about AP being used that way but I understand the pros and cons of its use.

The problem is the type of people who judge other players but their AP will always want to judge them by something and will always find something to use.

They’re only using AP because they don’t have other, more valid, options. I imagine they’d really like something like a way to see your entire build, how many dungeon runs you’ve done previously, which paths you did and how long they took to complete. (Or for the game to take all of that, and any other relevant information and reduce it down to a score so they can check it quickly, since ‘wasted’ time seems to be their major concern.)

If they couldn’t use AP they’d use something else. Require you to share your equipment in chat, show the Dungeon Master title, only use specific skins…I don’t know what exactly but they’d find some way to judge other players and exclude those who don’t meet their standards.

You’re almost better off with other players being able to see your AP — this way, those groups with fundamental misunderstandings of the game will kick themselves and you won’t have to waste time finding it out later.

• Tens of thousands of players have alt accounts with low AP and can run dungeons/fractals more efficiently than people with 20k AP.
• Knowing the route & mechanics is more important than knowing one’s profession and both those things are far more important than gear.
• Similarly knowing the mechanics is more important than choice of profession.
• Being able to communicate is important, since even in PUGs there can be slight variations in the tactics — some groups jump a boss and some wait for the boss to turn a corner; both methods are fast and yet both fail if half the party splits to try both at the same time.

And yet 100s of groups will try to filter for AP, for gear, for profession, and so on…even though in the end, knowing the mechanics is far, far more important. Optimized builds and team comp only matter for speedclearing, so it doesn’t matter for PUGging.

tl;dr I’d rather have my AP visible so that groups expose their ignorance early (and kick me) instead after I’ve committed to running a dungeon with them.

If someone joins a group without being able to meet a listed requirement, he has demonstrated an unwillingness or inability to read or follow directions/guidelines. Someone who has proven that they are not able or willing to follow directions is probably not a good addition to a PUG.

Ayrilana.1396:

RubberDougie.2750:

I just got kicked from a dungeon group before it started for “only” having 6k AP. Please, let nobody be able to view other’s AP. Mandatory! That way, nobody can pressure you into opting-in to show others your AP for verification.

Did the LFG post state an AP requirement?

No.

This is the problem with LFG.

Only solution is to group with friends and guildies.

AP is broken and should be no indication of players abilities.

1 year of playing PvE will give you more AP than a PvP/WvW player over 3 years of the game.

RubberDougie.2750:

Ayrilana.1396:

RubberDougie.2750:

I just got kicked from a dungeon group before it started for “only” having 6k AP. Please, let nobody be able to view other’s AP. Mandatory! That way, nobody can pressure you into opting-in to show others your AP for verification.

Did the LFG post state an AP requirement?

No.

Then how do you know you got kicked because of your ap?

I’m definitely going to pick the 23K AP WvW Staff Guardian over the properly geared 3K AP GS M/T Guardian /s. I don’t even pug any more to be fair, AP isn’t nearly as relevant as checking what passives you can see by their name, weapons they’re holding and what food/nourishment they have (if at all).

As for OP, if AP wasn’t visible then people wouldn’t bother grinding achievements at all.

I can see it now, “Show Radiant or Hellfire skins Only!” You think those kind of jackholes won’t find some way to be elitist? Because if you do, I think you’re wrong.

Anyone who has 6k AP could have run hundreds of dungeons by now. Likewise, anyone with over 6k might have never run any. It’s a ludicrous method for trying to judge experience in specific kinds of content.

Ultimately, hiding AP will not solve the problem, because it sounds to me like the people kicking you for such a dumb reason aren’t the kind you’d want to play with either way and will probably end up kicking you for some other dumb reason even if you did end up joining their group. It’s better to avoid them altogether in that case and play with more friendly, open-minded players.

Stop telling people how to pick their team mates. You are welcome to start your own group if you do not agree with the terms and conditions of the existing groups.

Do I think AP is a silly measurement for player experience? Yes.

Do I think people should be free to use such silly means of measurement? Yes.

Do I think you have a right to be a member of every party regardless whether they want you or not? No.

RubberDougie.2750:

I just got kicked from a dungeon group before it started for “only” having 6k AP. Please, let nobody be able to view other’s AP. Mandatory! That way, nobody can pressure you into opting-in to show others your AP for verification.

The whole idea of AP is to have them be visible. That’s why they were put in the game in the first place.
Also – if AP is hidden or even removed people will find other reasons to kick you – they can demand you equip a certain skin you can only get as a reward from high AP or they can have you ping full ascended or whatever else.

People will always exclude others – trying to fix it by removing things isn’t going to help it.

Algreg.3629:

Do I think AP is a silly measurement for player experience? Yes.

Do I think people should be free to use such silly means of measurement? Yes.

Do I think you have a right to be a member of every party regardless whether they want you or not? No.

Pretty much.

Come on give the juice, are you bearbowing or guardstaffing?

I wouldn’t join any ‘min AP’ group anyway, they tend to be unfriendly players anyway. Having well over 10k I never had problems, but having 3k or 6k doesn’t really change the fact that this player may or may not be experienced.

It only may indicate that a player is experienced. My general experience is that people with 1k or lower are worse than others. But that doesn’t lead to a kick. No, I explain how to play the dungeon.

While I understand that AP is not an indication of skill, if they posted that they required you to have 6k AP in the description, then – to be completely blunt – it is your fault for joining when you knew you didn’t have what they asked. The description is there for a reason. If you don’t like the premise that a group has been based on then don’t join it. You can always find casual/newbie groups that run just for kicks. Or heck, even form one yourself.

I disagree with this idea completely. If this is removed people will still find a reason to kick you, whether it be that you’re a Sylvari, or you’re not wearing the right gear, etc.

I have over 8300 AP and have never stepped into a dungeon.. except to complete my PS. (which was bugged so I couldn’t complete it, btw) I run around WvW on occassion with a friend and run all over PVE doing stuff… so what does AP do? I’m not clear on that…

I don’t mind people seeing my AP. It’s 17,311 as of just now. I’ve been to a ‘few’ dungeons a ‘few’ times, but not very experienced. I’ve done some fractals, just enough to get what I needed done for Mawdrey. Had to have it explained to me each time. I think I got ‘OK’ at one of them. Never did anything over 10.

So it’s a terrible indicator of my experience with that type of content.

Maybe if they came up with some sort of secondary weighted score for Dungeons and Fractals and any other new content that comes out that requires small, coordinated teams, that gives you an idea of how experienced they are, totally outside of AP?

We’ll call it your Trump Score.

I don’t mind anyone seeing a number like that on me. I get why people want it. They should come up with something better for it.

Just as it helps people who would like a score like that construct a party, it helps me to determine who I don’t want to party with. Without people playing the Starbelly Sneetch game, I have no idea of who to avoid as well.

AP should definitely not be hidden, for two reasons imo:

1) I am extremely proud of my 20k AP, and AP really means a lot to me so I like the idea of showing it off to other players. I also like seeing other players with a lot of AP, which shows me just how much effort they must have put in to farming if they have like 27k. AP, although not a good indicator of skill, is just something it is fun to see, like it was when ranks were visible in pvp.

2) It will most definitely not solve the problem of AP elitism, the ‘5k AP or kick’ will just turn into ‘Display respected achiever or kick’. The only way to solve AP elitism is to take away titles, hellfire/radiant armour and zenith (and in the future pinnacle) skins. That would be very disappointing and would take away from the feeling of being rewarded for your achievements.

If you really are having trouble with being kicked for your AP, either make your own group or join one with no specific requirements. Sure, you MAY get kicked very rarely, but I have only seen a few people being kicked from groups I was in with no specific requirements for their AP alone, and they all had under 1k. Not that I would ever kick anybody from any party for their AP but sometimes other group members do.

Hide it from strangers; it’s worthless anyways.

IMO, we could use more privacy features. You should be able to toggle so that people should not be able to see your location or AP, or whatever unless you add them too.

ArchonWing.9480:

Hide it from strangers; it’s worthless anyways.

IMO, we could use more privacy features. You should be able to toggle so that people should not be able to see your location or AP, or whatever unless you add them too.

Then parties would have ‘zerk only gear/gear check and AP check’.

Way I look at it is like this, if some turkey is asking for a full zerk ascended thermo nuclear devastation mode for an ac run, Ill stay away from them, life is too short to have needless ear ache.

Btw, done runs with people with 600 ap, and had loads of fun, so don’t take it to heart.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

ArchonWing.9480:

Hide it from strangers; it’s worthless anyways.

IMO, we could use more privacy features. You should be able to toggle so that people should not be able to see your location or AP, or whatever unless you add them too.

Then parties would have ‘zerk only gear/gear check and AP check’.

Way I look at it is like this, if some turkey is asking for a full zerk ascended thermo nuclear devastation mode for an ac run, Ill stay away from them, life is too short to have needless ear ache.

Btw, done runs with people with 600 ap, and had loads of fun, so don’t take it to heart.

Well, I’m thinking more in general, and not just joining groups that require filling out a few forms to get in as those appear to be fringe anyways.

I’d actually be willing to display silly things like AP and [insert rank here] publicly and on the forums or whatnot. I’d even support dps meters because it’s actually meaningful but that should be a choice and some people just want their privacy on their matters. Then again, the amount of things to show off are kinda limited.

From my point of view, privacy is a bigger issue than elitism. And speaking of AP, I have around 8.3k just from dailies and monthlies, so it is indeed hard for me to place value on it.

AP has a loose correlation to player experience. However, experience does not equate to skill. That’s been known for a long time now.

For example, in a FoTM32 run- I posted in LFG stating ‘meta not required’, but have 35+AR, which is well and good and honestly in a fotm32 I expected to get players that knew what they were doing but just didn’t necessarily have zerker gear. That’s been my experience anyway.

Good group save for one warrior. 17k AP LB Warrior. And when I say LB warrior, I mean they literally never swapped weapons to anything else. Ever. Not once. At no point did they even attempt to try a different weapon.

When I asked what their alternate weapon was, they said rifle. I about fainted. I asked if they at least had a GS on them that they could swap to, and of course they did not.

Somehow we managed to limp through until Grawl Shaman. It’s like they’ve never even seen that boss before. Would stand still while attacking it, soaking up burn damage until downed. Would continue to attack boss (after shield down) while elementals ran amok.

After 8 or so miserable attempts, I literally had to pretend we were calling it a day, whispered everyone else to play along, let the warrior leave (as I’m not one to kick when I specifically said no meta required), and then replaced them with someone else and we finished it next attempt.

So AP means absolutely nothing other than they’ve been playing the game awhile. I don’t agree we should hide it, but we certainly need to try and change the dynamic that high AP = high skill, when its more like high AP = high hours played.

AP = carebear
AP = old player
AP = not experience
AP doesnt mean the player is any good

pretty sure there are low AP players out there that would completely wreck highest AP players in gw2.
a kitten AP is all about doing some random stuff in PvE world my bad or did i just get to the point that amount of AP doesnt make a player good or bad

Aberrant.6749:

If there isn’t one currently up, you can just make your own party. Let them play how they wish to play.

Unless you’re level 35 and trying to do Ascalonian Catacombs, level 80’s come in and boot you out of your own pug.

People that want high AP are just wanting to be carried.

Aberrant.6749:

What they are doing is trying to judge how experienced you are. AP is the only way they can have a clue if you’re new or if you’ve been around a while.

If a party only wants players who have been around a while, why do you want to force yourself into a party that you know doesn’t want you? There are plenty of parties that don’t require ap, meta, zerk, whatever. If there isn’t one currently up, you can just make your own party. Let them play how they wish to play.

I doubt he wants to “force” himself into anything.

But, it is still wrong that people think they can reject people on these arbitrary kind of things, especially if they don’t specify it in advance.

The AP thing is especially unfair, as the goalposts will keep moving indefinitely.

Meaning that someone who started playing later and/or who plays a lot, but does less stuff that acquires AP (e.g. killing endless drakes, or whatever, lol!), will never be able to catch up.

Therefore, I would have to support you in your request, OP.

Shame it’s necessary, but there you go.

Human nature.

Tigaseye.2047:

The AP thing is especially unfair, as the goalposts will keep moving indefinitely.

Meaning that someone who started playing later and/or who plays a lot, but does less stuff that acquires AP (e.g. killing endless drakes, or whatever, lol!), will never be able to catch up.

The goalpost has not changed since AP became a thing amongst some players. It’s always been around 5K AP. Also, it doesn’t even matter whether a player can catch up or not as very few groups actually require an AP threshold to be made.

I see comms get harassed for having less than 10k AP. Showing AP isn’t working and it should be hidden.

the best warrior in this game only has 10k+ ap. he will absolutely trounce anyone else regardless of 1ap-28kap

To add to my earlier post, even if you are kicked for having low AP, is it really that much of a problem? You are usually kicked right at the start for things like that so you don’t have to waste any of your time on a run you won’t finish. If you are kicked, I understand why it may be frustrating, but it’s doesn’t make too much of a difference to the situation you are in- looking for a dungeon group. Just join another group because chances are this kind of thing will not happen twice in a row.
Also, people in ‘5k AP+’ groups, based on the ones I have been in, do not kick people for having less than 5k, provided they know the dungeon. I have run many of these groups with people with 3k or even less AP and have no issues. But yes, if the kicking really does annoy you (which is fully understandable), just make your own groups or join another group that shows up on the lfg tool.

I am caught in the middle between the two sides of “Ap shows skill” and “Ap doesn’t matter”. I pretty much do every aspect of the game and that has given me 7k ap since 2013. So when I go to do all the dungeons in the game daily (Been farming for legendary) i obviously hope to get in and out as quick as possible without many screw ups. Now for some dungeons like AC p1-3 and cof p1. Newbies are common and i usually don’t have a problem. But when i am trying to run TA aetherblade (whoever has run it before you know the difficulty) its tough to hold someones hand through the dungeon. I clearly state in my LFG “TA aether 80’s expierenced” But when a 700 ap person joins i know immediately that the person has not run this dungeon yet. I have not been proven wrong yet when it comes to it. Am I a impatient man? No. Do I want to devote a extra 30+ minutes teaching someone the dungeon path? No.

I like showing my AP.

Ludovic.1567:

I am caught in the middle between the two sides of “Ap shows skill” and “Ap doesn’t matter”. I pretty much do every aspect of the game and that has given me 7k ap since 2013. So when I go to do all the dungeons in the game daily (Been farming for legendary) i obviously hope to get in and out as quick as possible without many screw ups. Now for some dungeons like AC p1-3 and cof p1. Newbies are common and i usually don’t have a problem. But when i am trying to run TA aetherblade (whoever has run it before you know the difficulty) its tough to hold someones hand through the dungeon. I clearly state in my LFG “TA aether 80’s expierenced” But when a 700 ap person joins i know immediately that the person has not run this dungeon yet. I have not been proven wrong yet when it comes to it. Am I a impatient man? No. Do I want to devote a extra 30+ minutes teaching someone the dungeon path? No.

As someone who has gathered over 11k AP since release, I have never done this path, which just goes to show how inaccurate it is at higher amounts. I think it’s pretty safe to say that someone with <1k AP will be relatively new to whatever they’re facing, unless it’s an alt account.

Miss Lana.5276:

Ludovic.1567:

I am caught in the middle between the two sides of “Ap shows skill” and “Ap doesn’t matter”. I pretty much do every aspect of the game and that has given me 7k ap since 2013. So when I go to do all the dungeons in the game daily (Been farming for legendary) i obviously hope to get in and out as quick as possible without many screw ups. Now for some dungeons like AC p1-3 and cof p1. Newbies are common and i usually don’t have a problem. But when i am trying to run TA aetherblade (whoever has run it before you know the difficulty) its tough to hold someones hand through the dungeon. I clearly state in my LFG “TA aether 80’s expierenced” But when a 700 ap person joins i know immediately that the person has not run this dungeon yet. I have not been proven wrong yet when it comes to it. Am I a impatient man? No. Do I want to devote a extra 30+ minutes teaching someone the dungeon path? No.

As someone who has gathered over 11k AP since release, I have never done this path, which just goes to show how inaccurate it is at higher amounts. I think it’s pretty safe to say that someone with <1k AP will be relatively new to whatever they’re facing, unless it’s an alt account.

Okay there are some few exceptions I know myself and my friend have only been in parties where everyone around us has atleast 12k AP when running this path. Doesn’t mean they are pro mlg. It just means they know all the basics, and have a higher chance of doing it before. I guess my only problem is when I get people in these less then comfortable dungeons (Not a spam 1, stealth, cool little boss trick, spam 1) and when we get because they continually screw up and say “Why are you even in the dungeon when i said experienced” And they always reply with some kind of “How am I supposed to get experience when no one lets me run the dungeon?” And there is 4 simple answers. 1. Find friends that will help and teach you the dungeon. 2. Find a guild that will help you and teach you the dungeon… The name of the game is GUILD wars. 3. When you go to LFG look for a “All welcome” kind of path. I see these all time. 4. Finally the biggest one, just look up a guide on youtube! There are so many guides, banter bill has every dungeon guide on his channel. So if you are trying to do a hard dungeon without ever doing it before or knowing what is about. You have 4 options now to be able to learn it.

I don’t think AP should be hidden and here’s why.

When someone asks (what I think is) a really dumb question I check their AP…sometimes they’re just new and honestly don’t know. Sometimes though people ask stupid things (like give me mats cause I’m “new” or do this for me) and I like to know that I’m actually helping someone new rather than dealing with older players that should know better.

It’s not foolproof because someone with 6k+ AP might still be new to the game mechanics/area/thing but it helps point out who are the real new players.

I also like giving out unidentified dye to really new players and being able to see “okay they only have a few hundred AP” so they’re probably really new.

Algreg.3629:

Do I think AP is a silly measurement for player experience? Yes.

Do I think people should be free to use such silly means of measurement? Yes.

Do I think you have a right to be a member of every party regardless whether they want you or not? No.

This.
More chars needed.

Zackie.8923:

the best warrior in this game only has 10k+ ap. he will absolutely trounce anyone else regardless of 1ap-28kap

Yea, because AP equals skills.

ArchonWing.9480:

Hide it from strangers; it’s worthless anyways.

IMO, we could use more privacy features. You should be able to toggle so that people should not be able to see your location or AP, or whatever unless you add them too.

Then people will just kick you for hiding your AP. If it is hidden you surely have something to hide :p