Guild Wars 2

It appears HoT content is being incrementally downloaded with each GW2 patch. It appears this is being done for those who have purchased and have not purchased HoT. I have children who have GW2 accounts and have the game loaded on their computers. They don’t have a lot of hard drive space left (5-6 GB), I have not purchased HoT on their accounts. Over the coming months should I anticipate 10+ GB download patched to their games with HoT content they will not be using and have not paid for? I’d just like some clarification on this because this appears to be the way the expansion is being applied.

If the above is the case I don’t agree with it , if you’re occupying storage space for a product they did not pay for and do not want is that really ethical?

EDIT
I think to boil it down. What I"m really wondering is how much of the total GW2 install how much HD space will the for-pay expansion assets (models, textures, audio, etc..) account for? The new WvW map would be an example of content for everyone not for pay so I don’t think that content counts as part of this question. If it’s not through the license agreement, at what point to MMORPG developers gain the right to patch gigabytes of data for content you can’t play until you pay for? Is there a limit on how much space they can take? To better protect themselves for some crazy down the road who may try to litigate this should MMORPG developers better protect themselves or do most players not care at all?

And what makes you think it’s HoT content?

Its pretty normal for MMOs to download all that data even if you dont purchase the expansion.

The OP does have a valid question in his first paragraph. Has anyone compared the HD space consumed on a machine with HoT and one without?

Sam, I would be careful with your second paragraph though. It may be a gray area but questioning the legality of such a practice would be a no no. You may want to edit that one a bit. Your question stands on its own merits without such a reference. IMO of course.
“Using the forums or PMs to encourage, promote, endorse, or incite any kind of legal action against the company or any individual is strictly prohibited. Such content will be removed, and the author’s posting privileges will be permanently revoked.”

I pre-purchased HoT, and my GW2 directory is 22.8 GB. Don’t know what it was beforehand though.

You agreed to the Anet ToS, they aren’t commiting felonies by patching the game. Zone maps are not that big, most of HoT’s content will be visible to both account levels. Games get updated, it’s a thing. Might want to come up with a method of mitigating that annoyance if you want to continue happily in the MMO sphere. You can get your kids a WD blue 320gb on Amazon for like 20 bucks each if it’s that dire.

The file is going to be the same whether you bought the expansion or not. It is the same file, just like a huge amount of other programs that unlock aspect depending on what you bought but don’t re-download a different program based on what you have or have not paid.

Hmm nothing illegal here and Anet is with their rights and the data spaces taken up is the same regardless if you buy H.O.T or not.

H.O.T does adds new WvW border land maps regardless you buy H.O.T or not so that would be Anet’s out right their since its all included in the data with any other changes to the code to make things work.

The game size will be the same for non-HoT and HoT purchasers, the only difference is the progressional permissions the account has to what it can access, of which data is stored on Anets side.
This is how MMOs have always worked.

Dolphin.2574:

The OP does have a valid question in his first paragraph. Has anyone compared the HD space consumed on a machine with HoT and one without?

Sam, I would be careful with your second paragraph though. It may be a gray area but questioning the legality of such a practice would be a no no. You may want to edit that one a bit. Your question stands on its own merits without such a reference. IMO of course.
“Using the forums or PMs to encourage, promote, endorse, or incite any kind of legal action against the company or any individual is strictly prohibited. Such content will be removed, and the author’s posting privileges will be permanently revoked.”

The license agreement actually states we can’t sue NCSoft or ArenaNet without working with them and trying to come to an agreement through arbitration. Also I am aware that MMORPGs in general are totalitarian rule. NCSoft and ArenaNet can ban pretty much anyone they want for any reason and you really don’t have any recourse except maybe your initial purchase price. So to be clear, I am not trying to rally anyone to take any action against ANet in any way. What I am doing is trying to discuss something that I have not seen discussed before.

Still it would be nice if their right to take up as much of your hard drive space as they choose to were outlined somewhere the license agreement for formality sake.

If it truly is the standard for all MMOs that the expansion content is a forced download even for those who don’t own the expansion that is ridiculous. It makes me wonder what size the WoW install requires on a hd these days.

I mean, I love the game but do I really want to devote 40-GB of space to it? I still believe there is an ethical question here. Since multiple MMORPG developers are following the pattern it’s not exclusively directed at ANet, but in general how ethical is it to require players to devote 5-10GB+ of hard drive space to patches for an expansion they don’t even have legal right to use and to content they never signed a license agreement for. When purchased at retail boxed each expansion has it’s own license agreement. Though digital download it’s blurry. Is the original GW2 license agreement a living document that a player signs every time they sign into the game? If so where has that been established. Should it be established to grant the MMORPG developers the legal rights to consume as much hard drive space as needed?

If you think about these sort of questions may help ANet. How hard is it for them to amend a few paragraphs in the agreement just so their customers are clear that they are claiming the right to do this?

Put gaming out your mind for a moment and taking the question up to a higher level. Is it ethical for any software product vendor to take up large amounts of your hard drive space with related add on products they offer that you never purchased and that you do not have the legal right to use without paying them for a license?

Even if HoT is simply downloaded like any other patch, you’ll be able to avoid most of it by never fully patching the game. Instead, rely on the streaming option.

To quickly free some potentially wasted space, disable hibernate, clean out the %temp% folder and use disk cleanup.

It is to be expected that atleast some of the expansion content will also be added to thsoe accounts that do not purchase it. I’m thinking in regards to professions (new animations/new skills) , armor sets, new professions. Anything that would still be relevant and open in the old world. To expect the size to remain the same, especially with an mmo, is pretty silly.

They HAVe to patch in all those skins/weapons/skills/animation etc etc. Because they can’t jsut show a big gap or replace skins you dont have on your client with big black blobs of nothingness.

So ye, the size of the gw2 file is gonna change for all users , hot or not.

As for in general concerning MMORPG’s, these types of games are known to be constantly updated , patched and changed, so ye, if you’re going to play an mmo you need to be aware that the size of the initial file will change. That’s just a fact when it comes to mmo’s.

dsslive.8473:

As for in general concerning MMORPG’s, these types of games are known to be constantly updated , patched and changed, so ye, if you’re going to play an mmo you need to be aware that the size of the initial file will change. That’s just a fact when it comes to mmo’s.

or just about any game that has updates

I think WoW is at 50gb + and there’s a new expac planned again.
I don’t actually get what the issue is since it’s not really a reason to outrage, since it’s how MMOs work, Anet have already stated that there is no ‘base game’ anymore, it IS HoT, you can no longer -just- own the base game. Out of simplicity, only one game size.

Mmos constantly change and are added to in a multitude of obvious(content)and hidden (mainly for bug fixes) reasons, therefore you should always make sure you have adequate space for it.

Yup, we’re all going to get the entirety of the HoT slapped into our harddrives and the only difference between the two versions is that non-HoT copies will not be able to acess some of the features.

This is standard practice for mutiplayer games though. You get all the characters, costumes, etc. downloaded in weather you’re able to use them or not to ensure compatibility with the people who do. Theoretically they could save non-HoT purchasers some hard drive space by keeping some of the textures and models for the new maps out of our installs, but since the rest of us still need the data for new weapon/armor skins, elite specs, masteries, etc so we can continue to play together with the people that have those things, it’s probably more trouble than it’s worth for Anet to separate those things from each other in multiple patches.

Plus they’re kind of taking the current playerbase for granted assuming we’ll all buy it sooner or later anyways, so there’s very little motivation for them to hold back data that we’re going to “buy eventually anyways.” Some might even see it as a plus because they won’t have to wait for a patch after buying HoT after release. They can just play it.

The HoT system specs say it will take up 35gig. So when HoT launches the GW2 file will be around that size.

The minimum system requirements was 25GB. There is at least 3 GB to go before they hit that. The minimum has increased to 35GB for HoT. Also see attached image.

Any new weapon or armor added in HoT will need all their assets downloaded. All the assets for the new classes and specilization skills/traits/whatever also needs to be downloaded by everyone since those players can be anywhere.

BrotherBelial.3094:

The HoT system specs say it will take up 35gig. So when HoT launches the GW2 file will be around that size.

So those who haven’t purchased HoT and have no interest still must sacrice about 12-GB of HD space for expanshion content, must of which they will have no pay to use without paying for the expansion.

Now that it’s been pointed out that many MMORPG companies are doing this what follows is not meant to focus on ANet (especially since I just learned WoW requires 50-GB commitment) instead I want to put into perspective for everyone how ridiculous this is. You hard drive space is digital real-estate.

Imagine you’re in need of a truck. You bought a truck from a truck dealer. A few years later the truck dealer begins offering a promotion where anyone who has bought a truck in thee last several years can come and buy a special trailer made to complement your model truck. What’s more, anyone who buys a new truck in 2015 gets said trailer for free. Although you can go back and buy it,you don’t get the trailer for free. However even if you decide not to buy the trailer the dealership has already reserved one for you and they’ve decided they are going to keep it parked in your driveway. You don’t own the trailer until you pay them, but it’s going to sit in your driveway regardless because when you bought the truck you agreed to grant them this right. Of course physical property and virtual property have differences, but both cost money and both are limited. Notebook computers are starting to come with soldiered in hard drives, etc… Although the analogy of physical of physical real estate being consumed is reaching a bit, in many ways it IS the same thing. This is collectively what MMORPG players are allowing without question…. That’s kind of unbelievable.

As a software engineer I can assure you the games could be made in such as way that they did not take up so much space. It would be a technical challenge for the developers. They would have to make some architecture changes but there is no reason it couldn’t be done for sounds, textures and models that are truly not used at all by those who don’t own the expansions. I understand there is some crossover and those assets (e.g. new WvW maps available to all players) should not be scrutinized.

Khisanth.2948:

The minimum system requirements was 25GB. There is at least 3 GB to go before they hit that. The minimum has increased to 35GB for HoT. Also see attached image.

Any new weapon or armor added in HoT will need all their assets downloaded. All the assets for the new classes and specilization skills/traits/whatever also needs to be downloaded by everyone since those players can be anywhere.

The new armor skins, animations and textures related to Elite Specializations are not 10+ GB of data. Considering they use compression and accounting for HD textures you may be looking at 50-150 MB at most. The majority is going to be for the for-pay content those who purchase the expansion get to experience.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

BrotherBelial.3094:

The HoT system specs say it will take up 35gig. So when HoT launches the GW2 file will be around that size.

So those who haven’t purchased HoT and have no interest still must sacrice about 12-GB of HD space for expanshion content, must of which they will have no pay to use without paying for the expansion.

Now that it’s been pointed out that many MMORPG companies are doing this what follows is not meant to focus on ANet (especially since I just learned WoW requires 50-GB commitment) instead I want to put into perspective for everyone how ridiculous this is. You hard drive space is digital real-estate.

Imagine you’re in need of a truck. You bought a truck from a truck dealer. A few years later the truck dealer begins offering a promotion where anyone who has bought a truck in thee last several years can come and buy a special trailer made to complement your model truck. What’s more, anyone who buys a new truck in 2015 gets said trailer for free. Although you can go back and buy it,you don’t get the trailer for free. However even if you decide not to buy the trailer the dealership has already reserved one for you and they’ve decided they are going to keep it parked in your driveway. You don’t own the trailer until you pay them, but it’s going to sit in your driveway regardless because when you bought the truck you agreed to grant them this right. Of course physical property and virtual property have differences, but both cost money and both are limited. Notebook computers are starting to come with soldiered in hard drives, etc… Although the analogy of physical of physical real estate being consumed is reaching a bit, in many ways it IS the same thing. This is collectively what MMORPG players are allowing without question…. That’s kind of unbelievable.

As a software engineer I can assure you the games could be made in such as way that they did not take up so much space. It would be a technical challenge for the developers. They would have to make some architecture changes but there is no reason it couldn’t be done for sounds, textures and models that are truly not used at all by those who don’t own the expansions. I understand there is some crossover and those assets (e.g. new WvW maps available to all players) should not be scrutinized.

But its not just skins. They are changing alot about the game with HoT. And a lot of that will be happening with the core game. Strong hold and the new WvW maps will be “free” to everyone. You still need to be able to see all the new skins and what not that people will be using out side of HoT.

It’s quite simple really. It would cost them too much to make 2 lots of patches for everyone. For people who have HoT and people who do not. Then a program to ID accounts that do or do not have HoT. And send the right patches to the accounts. When you got GW2 you should have read the disclaimer at the bottom that said system requirements will change over time, and you might need to update tour system or buy a new one to keep.playing. The choice is a simple one, delete some stuff so you can keep playing or buy a new hard drive.

Well, ArenaNet has stated (from before the launch of GW2) that you may be required to upgrade your hardware. I imagine a bigger HD is considered upgrading your hardware.

Good luck.

I think it is simply not possible to have different versions of the game working and connecting to the same servers. Thus everyone will have the same client, just that a HoT key is required to access HoT specific thingies. Everything will still be in the dat-file, just not accessible.

That that is basically how things work when it comes to MMOs.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Khisanth.2948:

The minimum system requirements was 25GB. There is at least 3 GB to go before they hit that. The minimum has increased to 35GB for HoT. Also see attached image.

Any new weapon or armor added in HoT will need all their assets downloaded. All the assets for the new classes and specilization skills/traits/whatever also needs to be downloaded by everyone since those players can be anywhere.

The new armor skins, animations and textures related to Elite Specializations are not 10+ GB of data. Considering they use compression and accounting for HD textures you may be looking at 50-150 MB at most. The majority is going to be for the for-pay content those who purchase the expansion get to experience.

HoT isn’t going to be 10GB either …

I would count on 35gb (gw2+HoT).

Also a lot of ppl have access to the beta. To make the playable, Anet has to add the files to the game, otherwise not possible (Verdant brink map etc).

And making two diff clients (one small one and one big one) would take double the bug testing, double the approving of patches time, double the developping time. The more everything is streamlined the better for Anet. You having the full game on your pc, but with a line in the code that prevents you to play the HoT parts is way easier to code then what you ask (would cause a ton more bugs).

And last: Hard disk space is cheap as hell. 128gb is like the minimum and that can carry gw2 easely if you don’t stow other games no it. 256gb+ (very easy) can hold gw2+other software (though multiple GTA5 giants of games will be difficult). If it’s desktop just buy HDD (or SSD wich is getting cheap now), to have them run the game on it. If the pc’s have less then 100gb it’s your own fault. Over 8 years it’s already possible to get good performance/price/Terabyte drives in pc. If you failed to get that, it’s research failure. But I suspect you got laptops, wich are all handy and cosy, until you realize the feature you are missing and can’t add easely. For laptops you have to anticipate double as hard. ‘I think i need 200gb’ on my laptop. That being close to 256gb size of SSD’s and the growing nature of software, you should then shop for a 500gb laptop (if money doesnt allow, buy HDD and not ssd). But so many ppl don’t research when buying a laptop it’s crazy, and then they are dissapointed. I can say with full confidance for instance that in Media Market (huge electronics shop), half of the laptops ain’t worth their money (to old config, to high price, not up to date on some stuff, low quality assembly – one or multiple of these). But if you listen to salesman, well then you know wich he will recommend. Just don’t listen to him. Do your own research (or ask on the proper internet forums, people gladly will give advice). Spares a ton of frustration AND MONEY. Electronics wise, I only did like 2 purchases that afterwards felt like the wrong decision. All the others have proven to be great/amazing. Wich in the end spared me 1000’s of euro’s if I think about it. Maybe start doing this too? Sorry for the rant, but people take to much for granted. Some things you do better yourself. 200+gb drive laptops have been available for Ages. If that’s a priority feature that’s now lacking it’s your mistake for not ‘anticipating it’.

Times evolve, games evolve. Even from launch Anet said game is 25gb big (much bigger then launch GB so they took their margin cause they knew it would grow, and they didn’t want to face people’s rage that they didn’t specify correctly).

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

And last: Hard disk space is cheap as hell.

This. This is the important bit, and it’s buried in a wall of text.

Physical storage is not expensive. The answer to “I’m running out of space” should be buy more space.

1000GB disks from well-known, quality brands are available on Amazon for under $50. Also, 1000GB solid-state drives are under $200 (many are closer to $100).

You don’t even have to reinstall everything! Samsung I know provides software to clone your old disk onto the new one (recently got a 500GB SSD from them). I’m sure the other manufacturers provide similar software, and if your hdd doesn’t come with something, there are several free applications to clone disks.

Artanis.4963:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

And last: Hard disk space is cheap as hell.

This. This is the important bit, and it’s buried in a wall of text.

Physical storage is not expensive. The answer to “I’m running out of space” should be buy more space.

1000GB disks from well-known, quality brands are available on Amazon for under $50. Also, 1000GB solid-state drives are under $200 (many are closer to $100).

You don’t even have to reinstall everything! Samsung I know provides software to clone your old disk onto the new one (recently got a 500GB SSD from them). I’m sure the other manufacturers provide similar software, and if your hdd doesn’t come with something, there are several free applications to clone disks.

If that space is being taken up by software you can not use but because you bought another piece of software from the vendor you are required to devote that space anyway… Getting back to the truck and trailer scenario I detailed above. Would you answer be “you just need to build another driveway to get the trailer”.

Storage space is digital real estate. It’s where you keep your digital assets. It’s not free even if it is more cost effective that physical property. You should still not be require dot hand it over (we are talking about 15-GB of space in this case) or in the game of WoW who knows, perhaps 25-GB or more devoted to digital assets consuming space on your hard drive that you won’t get back.

Others have pointed out there is an option to stream down the content on-demand. So although the game my patch you up to 35-GB once HoT is released if you reinstall fresh and just stream down content as needed I’d guess you’ll get by with much less than that. Since this option is built into the game it’s really not applicable to GW2.

Due to potential changes, system requirements may change over time, and you may be required to upgrade your current system (or obtain a new system) to continue to play the game.

This thread is really about nothing

SamTheGuardian.2938:

It appears HoT content is being incrementally downloaded with each GW2 patch. It appears this is being done for those who have purchased and have not purchased HoT. I have children who have GW2 accounts and have the game loaded on their computers. They don’t have a lot of hard drive space left (5-6 GB), I have not purchased HoT on their accounts. Over the coming months should I anticipate 10+ GB download patched to their games with HoT content they will not be using and have not paid for? I’d just like some clarification on this because this appears to be the way the expansion is being applied.

If the above is the case I don’t agree with it , if you’re occupying storage space for a product they did not pay for and do not want is that really ethical?

EDIT
I think to boil it down. What I"m really wondering is how much of the total GW2 install how much HD space will the for-pay expansion assets (models, textures, audio, etc..) account for? The new WvW map would be an example of content for everyone not for pay so I don’t think that content counts as part of this question. If it’s not through the license agreement, at what point to MMORPG developers gain the right to patch gigabytes of data for content you can’t play until you pay for? Is there a limit on how much space they can take? To better protect themselves for some crazy down the road who may try to litigate this should MMORPG developers better protect themselves or do most players not care at all?

So your suggestion instead is, instead of downloading the data once and storing it in the hardrive you would rather have I stream to the PC every single time you play taking tons and tons of more space and cause lag in your household every single time you play a video game and have someone play Netflix at the same time?

Hard drive space is ridiculously cheap at the moment. If anything, the most expensive thing is bandwidth and saving the data on the hardrive saves a ton of future bandwidth.

OP does have a valid question. i however, have pre-purchased HoT, but also wonder how much space will GW2 finally take altogether after HoT launched, as my SSD is only around 8GB left. if it does increase more than 10GB i’ll no other choice than having to buy bigger SSD.

Chase.8415:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

It appears HoT content is being incrementally downloaded with each GW2 patch. It appears this is being done for those who have purchased and have not purchased HoT. I have children who have GW2 accounts and have the game loaded on their computers. They don’t have a lot of hard drive space left (5-6 GB), I have not purchased HoT on their accounts. Over the coming months should I anticipate 10+ GB download patched to their games with HoT content they will not be using and have not paid for? I’d just like some clarification on this because this appears to be the way the expansion is being applied.

If the above is the case I don’t agree with it , if you’re occupying storage space for a product they did not pay for and do not want is that really ethical?

EDIT
I think to boil it down. What I"m really wondering is how much of the total GW2 install how much HD space will the for-pay expansion assets (models, textures, audio, etc..) account for? The new WvW map would be an example of content for everyone not for pay so I don’t think that content counts as part of this question. If it’s not through the license agreement, at what point to MMORPG developers gain the right to patch gigabytes of data for content you can’t play until you pay for? Is there a limit on how much space they can take? To better protect themselves for some crazy down the road who may try to litigate this should MMORPG developers better protect themselves or do most players not care at all?

So your suggestion instead is, instead of downloading the data once and storing it in the hardrive you would rather have I stream to the PC every single time you play taking tons and tons of more space and cause lag in your household every single time you play a video game and have someone play Netflix at the same time?

Hard drive space is ridiculously cheap at the moment. If anything, the most expensive thing is bandwidth and saving the data on the hardrive saves a ton of future bandwidth.

No. It’s more download-as-you-go. Once the content is downloaded you would not stream it down again (unless there was an update to content). This available to all of us as a command line gw2.exe option now. So since this option exist it invalidates the question in context of ArenaNet and this game. If a player can’t get to the HoT maps they will never load and thus never take up hard drive space.

I’m not sure that is true. I have had -streamingclient activated since inception, and I didn’t download any extra content when I entered the HoT maps. I have -maploadinfo activated, as well, so I can see when data is being downloaded.

All the -streamingclient does is allow you to enter certain maps before all content is downloaded, and then it continues to download the content in the background, rather than downloading all content first.

Regardless, as noted above, there is a warning about having to upgrade your equipment when purchasing.

Good luck.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Artanis.4963:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

And last: Hard disk space is cheap as hell.

This. This is the important bit, and it’s buried in a wall of text.

Physical storage is not expensive. The answer to “I’m running out of space” should be buy more space.

1000GB disks from well-known, quality brands are available on Amazon for under $50. Also, 1000GB solid-state drives are under $200 (many are closer to $100).

You don’t even have to reinstall everything! Samsung I know provides software to clone your old disk onto the new one (recently got a 500GB SSD from them). I’m sure the other manufacturers provide similar software, and if your hdd doesn’t come with something, there are several free applications to clone disks.

If that space is being taken up by software you can not use but because you bought another piece of software from the vendor you are required to devote that space anyway… Getting back to the truck and trailer scenario I detailed above. Would you answer be “you just need to build another driveway to get the trailer”.

Storage space is digital real estate. It’s where you keep your digital assets. It’s not free even if it is more cost effective that physical property. You should still not be require dot hand it over (we are talking about 15-GB of space in this case) or in the game of WoW who knows, perhaps 25-GB or more devoted to digital assets consuming space on your hard drive that you won’t get back.

Others have pointed out there is an option to stream down the content on-demand. So although the game my patch you up to 35-GB once HoT is released if you reinstall fresh and just stream down content as needed I’d guess you’ll get by with much less than that. Since this option is built into the game it’s really not applicable to GW2.

Buy more space. Your reasons for not buying it is not a valid enough reason to not buy more space.

All drives have portions of them not available due to various things.

MMO’s by their nature increase in file size. Even if they never have an expansion pack. New skills, new classes, new races, new maps, etc. So asking for them to stop doing that is tantamount to saying: please stop making new things. And that’s a game ending position to be in for an MMO.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

If it truly is the standard for all MMOs that the expansion content is a forced download even for those who don’t own the expansion that is ridiculous. It makes me wonder what size the WoW install requires on a hd these days.

Out of idle curiosity, where are you getting the information that non-HoT accounts will get all ten gigs of the expansion? Are you certain that non-HoT accounts are not going to download only the required files for the new textures, models, and maps that they’ll be able to access even without HoT?

I still believe there is an ethical question here. Since multiple MMORPG developers are following the pattern it’s not exclusively directed at ANet, but in general how ethical is it to require players to devote 5-10GB+ of hard drive space to patches for an expansion they don’t even have legal right to use and to content they never signed a license agreement for.

Whoa, stop. You did agree to it.

2. LIMITED LICENSE — SERVICE, CONTENT AND SOFTWARE LICENSED NOT SOLD

(a) The Game requires Service, Content and Software from NCSOFT. You acknowledge that You must obtain Software from NCSOFT to use the Game and that such software may have a serial code number / access key that can only be used once. You also acknowledge that You must obtain Service from NCSOFT to use the Game and You acknowledge that You are responsible for supplying any necessary communications connections (such as Internet access) and hardware to use the Game, as well as any costs or expenses related to the foregoing. You further acknowledge that NCSOFT may, in its sole and absolute discretion, allow You full or partial access to Content, including one or more Message Boards, Teams or Items, and may condition such full or partial access upon Your compliance with the provisions in Section 4 below as well as other provisions related to the foregoing.

Simply put, an MMO is a service, when the cost of the service goes up (in this case the required hard drive space) you’ve already agreed that you will shoulder that cost. This was true whenever they updated the gem store with skins that you didn’t buy (but still had the files downloaded to your drive), it remains true for the expansion – albeit at a larger scale.

When purchased at retail boxed each expansion has it’s own license agreement. Though digital download it’s blurry. Is the original GW2 license agreement a living document that a player signs every time they sign into the game?

Whenever there are changes to the user agreement you will receive a popup informing you of such when you try to log into the game and it will prevent you from logging into the game until you accept it. This has been standard practice in every MMO for years and it’s even spelled out in the agreement:

3. DURATION OF AGREEMENT, ACCOUNT TERMINATION, REFUND REQUESTS

(a) Duration — Unless modified or amended by NCSOFT, this agreement and its provisions shall remain in effect. Termination of any license granted by NCSOFT under this agreement does not affect any other provisions of this agreement.

In other words, the moment they change something in the agreement it ends and you to accept the new agreement for them to continue providing you the service.

Put gaming out your mind for a moment and taking the question up to a higher level. Is it ethical for any software product vendor to take up large amounts of your hard drive space with related add on products they offer that you never purchased and that you do not have the legal right to use without paying them for a license?

Sure, but you should ask again once you know if this is actually the case.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

BrotherBelial.3094:

The HoT system specs say it will take up 35gig. So when HoT launches the GW2 file will be around that size.

So those who haven’t purchased HoT and have no interest still must sacrice about 12-GB of HD space for expanshion content, must of which they will have no pay to use without paying for the expansion.

You write as if 35GB is hard to come by; I don’t agree that it is. I think it’s reasonable that an MMO require more space over time, regardless of whether people buy any expacs or not.

I’m sympathetic with the annoyance factor: I expect I, too, will need to make changes to my system to accommodate HoT. However, I don’t see it as an unreasonable hardship. (And no, I don’t have a lot of discretionary funds to pay for computer updates.)