Guild Wars 2

The sad amount of advantages that HoT has over Core makes the game virtually unplayable. Now there are going to be people from all over this forum trying to troll but yet they’re all more than likely running HoT builds or they’ll say there are still some Core Guardian builds in spvp.
Doesn’t change the fact that a vast majority of HoT skills/architecture are simply much better than Core. Now there are too many advantages to list…Ill leave those for the people that know the game well enough to know what they’re talking about…But had I been told that any expansions would be far superior & in fact designed to make you uncompetitive so you would be forced to buy them, I never would have invested any time/effort/money in a business model that is clearly “Pay to Win” now. In fact, we were told the opposite.

Yeah, I remember somewhere they said the Elite Specs was just going to give you a different play style with it being inline with the core specs but I guess I just dreamed that. Although it doesn’t surprise me because they had to make at least one guaranteed way that you would buy HoT if all the other stuff failed (HoT Maps, Legendarys, New BL)

HARDOFREADING.7298:

The sad amount of advantages that HoT has over Core makes the game virtually unplayable. Now there are going to be people from all over this forum trying to troll but yet they’re all more than likely running HoT builds or they’ll say there are still some Core Guardian builds in spvp.
Doesn’t change the fact that a vast majority of HoT skills/architecture are simply much better than Core. Now there are too many advantages to list…Ill leave those for the people that know the game well enough to know what they’re talking about…But had I been told that any expansions would be far superior & in fact designed to make you uncompetitive so you would be forced to buy them, I never would have invested any time/effort/money in a business model that is clearly “Pay to Win” now. In fact, we were told the opposite.

Dude I am having a hard time following you. You say hot brings a lot more advantages compared to core gw2, yet you don’t want to list them, you only talk about the pvp side of it and you ask other players to talk about it because you don’t know enough…Why not post this in pvp subforum instead?

Other games have added levels when they release xpacs so we can’t really complain about elites. There will always be new stuff to entice players to buy xpacs.

The solution is to buy the hot xpac honestly, or if you can’t buy it now then start saving for the next xpac that will include hot elites plus (most likely) new xpac elites.

This game uses the “pay once and play forever” access model which is pretty generous.

Having said all that, yes, the devs still need to make improvements to core professions. In the meantime, though, you should buy hot and enjoy what it offers and so you are not so far behind when the next xpac comes.

This game is NOT pay to win. Either you buy the expansion or you don’t. Every MMO is this way.

flog.3485:

HARDOFREADING.7298:

The sad amount of advantages that HoT has over Core makes the game virtually unplayable. Now there are going to be people from all over this forum trying to troll but yet they’re all more than likely running HoT builds or they’ll say there are still some Core Guardian builds in spvp.
Doesn’t change the fact that a vast majority of HoT skills/architecture are simply much better than Core. Now there are too many advantages to list…Ill leave those for the people that know the game well enough to know what they’re talking about…But had I been told that any expansions would be far superior & in fact designed to make you uncompetitive so you would be forced to buy them, I never would have invested any time/effort/money in a business model that is clearly “Pay to Win” now. In fact, we were told the opposite.

Dude I am having a hard time following you. You say hot brings a lot more advantages compared to core gw2, yet you don’t want to list them, you only talk about the pvp side of it and you ask other players to talk about it because you don’t know enough…Why not post this in pvp subforum instead?

That’s because it’s pretty obvious isn’t it… No masteries no specs in core, PvP must be a nightmare to play as an only core player…

I have Hot and i don’t PvP but i can totally understand the OP point, its pretty stupid to add core mechanics to an expansion, wtf were Anet thinking…

PyrateSilly.4710:

This game is NOT pay to win. Either you buy the expansion or you don’t. Every MMO is this way.

Thats not true at all, most mmorpg expansions add more content yes but core mechanics get added right through the game even if you don’t buy their expansions, just because of the ops issues and more..

Guildwars 2 is pretty messed up now after hot, at least wvw and pvp wise, you obviously don’t play many mmos.

I have been playing MMO’s since the old BBS days. Long before they really were massive multiplayer online games.

It’s already been proven that core can still beat the elites if you “git gud”

I think e space need to stay batter then core because they are pay for play

Other games have added levels when they release xpacs so we can’t really complain about elites. There will always be new stuff to entice players to buy xpacs.

It is not the same problem. Personnaly, I’m totally ok with the fact that a HoT player has advantages. The problem for me is the fact I have HoT but I like more my “core class” than my elit spec, but I’m forced to play my elite spec because it is far more efficient …
Core class should be equal to elite. Anet should search something else to force to buy HoT, because it also hurts HoT players.

don’t all MMOs let people who get the expansion have some advantages anyway? in other games you either get better equipment, raise level cap, or many other things that give obvious advantage over people who don’t buy it.
I don’t really get why people would not get HoT by now, doesn’ it bore you to play the same stale game over and over?

In GW Anet balanced skills in PvP separately from PvE and attempted to keep the PvP meta in balance without impacting PvE. They did not mandate a purchase of EoTN by allowing those factional skills into PvP, and it was a smarter move. However, PvE elitists demanded those skills from groups, and it did hurt players without the Expac. Ursan anyone?

Now? They would rather leverage a HoT purchase. Same as nerfing Core guilds into nothing and taking features away, instead of adding to content people had for years.

And why would I buy HoT? Gliders annoy me. Gimmicky puzzle zones and mazes annoy me. The callous killing of Eir annoyed me. DE2 annoys me. I’m sick of Sylvari centric everything. I don’t want an ersatze Druid nor would I play one.

So. Why should I waste money on it. I’ll buy when they add features I want. I will not buy because they marginalize the core game to leverage it.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t the MMR ladder system put most HoT players further up the ladder than non-HoT players, thus, Non-HoT players would be paired more with Non-HoT players, and vice versa?

I say “pairs more with” – it still goes of ability at the end of the day. I’m sure capable Non-HoT players can find their way higher than most, and not-so-capable HoT players end up on the lower end of the ladder.

Even if I’m wrong – having HoT doesn’t guarantee a win in a PvP match.

If having OP builds is that important to you then buy HoT. There problem solved.

HARDOFREADING.7298:

The sad amount of advantages that HoT has over Core makes the game virtually unplayable. Now there are going to be people from all over this forum trying to troll but yet they’re all more than likely running HoT builds or they’ll say there are still some Core Guardian builds in spvp.
Doesn’t change the fact that a vast majority of HoT skills/architecture are simply much better than Core. Now there are too many advantages to list…Ill leave those for the people that know the game well enough to know what they’re talking about…But had I been told that any expansions would be far superior & in fact designed to make you uncompetitive so you would be forced to buy them, I never would have invested any time/effort/money in a business model that is clearly “Pay to Win” now. In fact, we were told the opposite.

you have been banging on about this for months, either buy or don’kittens your choice., be a man.

Compare this to GW1, GW1 you get extra skills sets the more expansions you had. Compare to WOW, well if you don’t buy the expansion you cannot even enter the new zones and you cannot even play with max level players.

I don’t remember this very well as I only casually played GW1 but wouldn’t those expansions have been considered P2W too? How many new skills did they add for core classes plus with all of the additional classes?

Has there ever been an expansion to an MMO that you couldn’t consider P2W?

It was considered ‘pay to buy an expansion’ and not ‘pay to win’ and no one really minded, You made an adult choice, you either saw value in buying the expansion for e.g the greater range on skills you could have, or you decide not to and played with the content you enjoyed. this ‘Pay to win’ complaining is part of the new age moan on a forum culture.

No, that is called buying the game.

its called buying an expansion for an ongoing persistant mmorpg.

In my humble opinion I think the problem is Anet claimed (don’t quote me on this) somewhere that the Elite specs wouldn’t overshadow the core specs. After experiencing some of the Elite specs, I would have to say in most situations the Elite specs are better than core instead of just giving them another way to play, they made them better which I thought they said they wouldn’t do. So its not because the expac gives them more skills, it gives them better skills. (But that is just my humble opinion)

HARDOFREADING.7298:

The sad amount of advantages that HoT has over Core makes the game virtually unplayable. Now there are going to be people from all over this forum trying to troll but yet they’re all more than likely running HoT builds or they’ll say there are still some Core Guardian builds in spvp.
Doesn’t change the fact that a vast majority of HoT skills/architecture are simply much better than Core. Now there are too many advantages to list… Ill leave those for the people that know the game well enough to know what they’re talking about… But had I been told that any expansions would be far superior & in fact designed to make you uncompetitive so you would be forced to buy them, I never would have invested any time/effort/money in a business model that is clearly “Pay to Win” now. In fact, we were told the opposite.

So wait, you actually have no idea what the advantage is, just riding the anti-expansion pack train?

And what about WoWs expansions, are they also “pay to win” because they increase the maximum level AND then all the classes and events become balanced around those new top levels? (I remember before WoD came out, we were all having a really hard time because they balanced the classes and game for the level 100s, but the highest you could be was 90. Those couple of weeks were brutal.)

What about SWTOR, they are similar to WoW in that new expansions increase the maximum level, making it hard to even find people to play the game with.

The dreaded ToA expansion to DAOC, if you didn’t have it, don’t bother continuing to play the game.

I honestly think the new mentality is “If it’s not free, it’s pay to win” which is, in my opinion, a very low minded mentality to have. Companies will release expansions as a way to make money.

This conversation has been brought up sooooo many times its ridiculous. In almost every MMO, if you want to remain relevant you need to buy the expansion. I don’t know how or why this is news.

Most of you are just gonna have to get over yourselves and accept this fact. Forget about the past or “what could have been.” It is what it is.

sir. this game is created by a company, not by charity. they need to find out ways to gain money. they have bills to pay.

You know what would be pay to win? If Anet sold Legendary stuff for real money. An expansion is not P2W. Also, I have HoT and I still run my old “core build” on my Necro.
I don’t feel worse than a Reaper. It’s only worse to elitist people who only care about DPS.

But Mea.5491 DPS is life DPS eveything this game, wich actually is.

Aeolus.3615:

But Mea.5491 DPS is life DPS eveything this game, wich actually is.

Not for everyone. I enjoy my tanky builds. Nothing makes me laugh more than all the squishy people who get downed in 1 hit during the DS meta. In the end, I deal the same damage because I don’t get downed. Sure, some people can run Zerker just fine but too many noobs pick Zerker and die all the time, it’s sad.

And the reverse option would be putting out an expansion full of either more of the same stuff or stuff that is irrelevant and few people would want to bother with it and no one will buy it and thus have been a waste of time and money making it.

But I feel the OP’s issues lie with core spec balance not “pay-2-win” mentality. So you could continue whining about stuff and waste your time or you can suggest changes and improvements to the core specs…and waste your time.

I guess it IS just easier to whine about stuff but far less entertaining.

Because GW2 is pay-to-win?

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

In GW Anet balanced skills in PvP separately from PvE and attempted to keep the PvP meta in balance without impacting PvE. They did not mandate a purchase of EoTN by allowing those factional skills into PvP, and it was a smarter move. However, PvE elitists demanded those skills from groups, and it did hurt players without the Expac. Ursan anyone?

Now? They would rather leverage a HoT purchase. Same as nerfing Core guilds into nothing and taking features away, instead of adding to content people had for years.

And why would I buy HoT? Gliders annoy me. Gimmicky puzzle zones and mazes annoy me. The callous killing of Eir annoyed me. DE2 annoys me. I’m sick of Sylvari centric everything. I don’t want an ersatze Druid nor would I play one.

So. Why should I waste money on it. I’ll buy when they add features I want. I will not buy because they marginalize the core game to leverage it.

And yet, in GW, PvP metas changed to incorporate non-PvE skills from the later campaigns. I remember Searing Flames and Sandstorm meta builds, for instance. Icy Veins, the main skill in the Icy Veins spike, was introduced and only available in Factions. If you only PvP’d, you could just choose to buy the skill packs separately. So, it was not really that different. They may have done a better job of balancing, they may not have. I seem to recall a lot of complaints back then.

Complain all you want about HoT, but enough with the grass is greener stuff.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

In GW Anet balanced skills in PvP separately from PvE and attempted to keep the PvP meta in balance without impacting PvE. They did not mandate a purchase of EoTN by allowing those factional skills into PvP, and it was a smarter move. However, PvE elitists demanded those skills from groups, and it did hurt players without the Expac. Ursan anyone?

Now? They would rather leverage a HoT purchase. Same as nerfing Core guilds into nothing and taking features away, instead of adding to content people had for years.

And why would I buy HoT? Gliders annoy me. Gimmicky puzzle zones and mazes annoy me. The callous killing of Eir annoyed me. DE2 annoys me. I’m sick of Sylvari centric everything. I don’t want an ersatze Druid nor would I play one.

So. Why should I waste money on it. I’ll buy when they add features I want. I will not buy because they marginalize the core game to leverage it.

And yet, in GW, PvP metas changed to incorporate non-PvE skills from the later campaigns. I remember Searing Flames and Sandstorm meta builds, for instance. Icy Veins, the main skill in the Icy Veins spike, was introduced and only available in Factions. If you only PvP’d, you could just choose to buy the skill packs separately. So, it was not really that different. They may have done a better job of balancing, they may not have. I seem to recall a lot of complaints back then.

Complain all you want about HoT, but enough with the grass is greener stuff.

I was referring to the Faction skills from EoTN which did impact PvE disproportionately and were kept out of PvP totally. And for PvE, those same skills were a must have if you wanted groups. But, whatever.

PvE and WvW remain fun to play and certainly don’t require HoT. The new things in HoT obviously require buying the expansion, including masteries and the new specializations. Unless you play both on different accounts, I think it’s hard to understand that there’s nothing “pay to win” about HoT — it changes things, but no more than owning a copper-fed salvage-o-matic changes inventory management.

PvP, however, is a different matter. Near as I can tell, you need a lot more skill to win consistently using core-only builds. There are posts from folks who have done it, so we know that HoT isn’t required per se, but it does appear that the new builds offer a more substantive advantage in PvP than in PvE/WvW.

I can’t remember ANet commenting on this directly and I think it would be good for the game if they did, perhaps providing win|loss ratio stats or some other relevant data that demonstrates how true the theory is.

I just have to wonder, did you think you paid 60 or so bucks three years ago and that was going to buy you unlimited gaming entertainment forever and ever, like a static console game? I don’t know how any company could continue to fix bugs, update content, pay for servers, have support staff, etc etc etc, without making money. Gem store sales help keep the lights on, but anet needs to make a profit when they create new content. You don’t pay a subscription, how can you expect anet to create new content and just provide it for free forever and ever? I could see your point of view if anet was charging you a subscription fee, but they don’t, the gem store covers what a subscription fee covers, but to make new content, it needs to be paid for. If you don’t want to play that new content, then don’t buy it, but holding back the rest of the community that wants the new content isn’t fair, nor is expecting anet to keep the game static to please a few players that don’t want to pay anything more than their original investment.

If you bought the deluxe game for 80 dollars when it was originally released (the most expensive version) you spent slightly more than 2 dollars a month by the time HoT was released. tell me, what other sort of entertainment could you buy for that little? I’d truly like to know. And I am saying this as someone that will probably not purchase the next expansion because I feel jipped over the Legendary fiasco.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

PvP, however, is a different matter. Near as I can tell, you need a lot more skill to win consistently using core-only builds. There are posts from folks who have done it, so we know that HoT isn’t required per se, but it does appear that the new builds offer a more substantive advantage in PvP than in PvE/WvW.

I.

There is a way that anet could change this and make it more fair, allow players that own the core game to use elite builds in PvP. From what I have heard PvP is a level playing field. You can’t use buffs, everyone has the same access to all available gear, and all players are the same level no matter what they’ve done in PvE. I think this has led to the expectation that no one should have any advantages in PvP, because historically they haven’t – there are other games that don’t operate that way, and players that haven’t bought the expansion would naturally feel upset that one of the things they liked best about this game has seemingly changed. I doubt that anet will change their policy, lots of people have bought the game, but wouldn’t have, if it weren’t for the elite specs, and there are plenty of players that might by the expansion, but haven’t yet, that do PvP. It would solve a lot of player gripes if they did it though

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

In GW Anet balanced skills in PvP separately from PvE and attempted to keep the PvP meta in balance without impacting PvE. They did not mandate a purchase of EoTN by allowing those factional skills into PvP, and it was a smarter move. However, PvE elitists demanded those skills from groups, and it did hurt players without the Expac. Ursan anyone?

Now? They would rather leverage a HoT purchase. Same as nerfing Core guilds into nothing and taking features away, instead of adding to content people had for years.

And why would I buy HoT? Gliders annoy me. Gimmicky puzzle zones and mazes annoy me. The callous killing of Eir annoyed me. DE2 annoys me. I’m sick of Sylvari centric everything. I don’t want an ersatze Druid nor would I play one.

So. Why should I waste money on it. I’ll buy when they add features I want. I will not buy because they marginalize the core game to leverage it.

And yet, in GW, PvP metas changed to incorporate non-PvE skills from the later campaigns. I remember Searing Flames and Sandstorm meta builds, for instance. Icy Veins, the main skill in the Icy Veins spike, was introduced and only available in Factions. If you only PvP’d, you could just choose to buy the skill packs separately. So, it was not really that different. They may have done a better job of balancing, they may not have. I seem to recall a lot of complaints back then.

Complain all you want about HoT, but enough with the grass is greener stuff.

I was referring to the Faction skills from EoTN which did impact PvE disproportionately and were kept out of PvP totally. And for PvE, those same skills were a must have if you wanted groups. But, whatever.

Ah. Since the thread is about the perceived unfairness of HoT Elite Specs in PvP, I felt that skills used in PvP in GW were a better comparison than the PvE skills. I guess I can see why you’re unhappy with the PvE skills from GW, but I think they’re at best peripheral to the topic.

there’s a simple answer to this, if you see value in the new skills then support the game and buy the expansion, you are obviously going to use the skills. Asking developers to waste resource trying to balance everything against everything including players who play in the game with partial content is going to detract for everybody. 2nd, this ‘Pay to Win’ thing is dramatic nonsense, if you don’t have the expansion then you are playing the old version of the game in reality, your paying to get the new version of the game, not to get a power boost.

I have HoT, I play a druid and I still get my rear handed to me in PvP the same as before. There are always going to be people who figure out and execute all the new tricks till someone figures out how to counter them. Then those counters will become the new tricks. I just yell WAHOO and laugh when I get the most damage received. So you can be mad about it all, buy the expansion or figure out a way around it. Which there have been plenty of core players that have since I still get the most damage received on a fairly regular basis lol

The point is: Elite specs don’t always overshadow all core specs. For example on Elementalist I wouldn’t give up fire or air just to play tempest. But then comes the third pick.

Elite specs don’t always overshadow all core specs, but they almost always overshadow at least 3/5 core specs. The reason for that isn’t even that they’re overpowered, but their diversity. If you’re going for a full dps build, which specialisation would you take: The one that makes you a lot more tanky, the one that gives you good healing or the one that gives you a tiny bit of everything including dps?

I think in order to make core builds viable again the core specs need more diversity. Add some damage to the support specs, some support to the tank specs and some tankyness to the damage specs. As soon as the third spec doesn’t feel like a wasted pick anymore core builds will shine again.

I don’t think I can agree with OP, elite specs is not even that good, I choose my status full core specs ranger over a druid ranger anytime

I think in order to make core builds viable again the core specs need more diversity. Add some damage to the support specs, some support to the tank specs and some tankyness to the damage specs. As soon as the third spec doesn’t feel like a wasted pick anymore core builds will shine again.

I think the best solution is to promote a core spec to an elite spec (wich would be available with the core game). Usually each class seems to have a trait line that improves the F1 F2 … skills. The virtue line for the guardian, discipline for warrior, arcane for ele, BM for ranger, trickery for thief, tools for engie, illusions for mesmer. Not sure for rev and necro.
Those trait lines seems perfect candidates to become elite core spec.
A guardian would so have the choice between Virtues (and staying a Guardian) and, if he bought HoT, Dragon Hunting (and becoming a Dragon Hunter).

Scipion.7548:

I think the best solution is to promote a core spec to an elite spec (wich would be available with the core game). Usually each class seems to have a trait line that improves the F1 F2 … skills. The virtue line for the guardian, discipline for warrior, arcane for ele, BM for ranger, trickery for thief, tools for engie, illusions for mesmer. Not sure for rev and necro.
Those trait lines seems perfect candidates to become elite core spec.
A guardian would so have the choice between Virtues (and staying a Guardian) and, if he bought HoT, Dragon Hunting (and becoming a Dragon Hunter).

Hmm, the only result would be that the promoted spec can no longer be picked together with a different elite spec. For example elementalists could no longer pick tempest and arcane at the same time. While this would certainly “enforce” some core builds, because people are potentially forced to choose between two specs they’d like to take, I believe that further limiting the available choices is a bad move.

HARDOFREADING.7298:

The sad amount of advantages that HoT has over Core makes the game virtually unplayable. Now there are going to be people from all over this forum trying to troll but yet they’re all more than likely running HoT builds or they’ll say there are still some Core Guardian builds in spvp.
Doesn’t change the fact that a vast majority of HoT skills/architecture are simply much better than Core. Now there are too many advantages to list…Ill leave those for the people that know the game well enough to know what they’re talking about…But had I been told that any expansions would be far superior & in fact designed to make you uncompetitive so you would be forced to buy them, I never would have invested any time/effort/money in a business model that is clearly “Pay to Win” now. In fact, we were told the opposite.

Im not entirely sure actually BUYING the game qualifies as “Pay to Win”. Or maybe it does? I mean, you are buying the game i suppose so in a way you buy to play to win?
But most games require you to own the game to be able to play and you need to play in order to win.. Hmm.. This is confusing..

Im going to assume the main point is the HoT elite specs that everyone thinks are unfair and that it killed build diversity etc.
In fact, if you just rewind the clock to before HoT, you will find that there were 1 or 2 traitlines that were always chosen, 1 build that was always “meta” for each field of the game and there were always classes that were less popular than others.

So summing this up, nostalgia goggles aside, the elite specs are powerful, and basically a “must have” for every meta build out there. But thats not really any different from before..
When it comes to the “F2P” Players or just the old core game vets, you still have the same game, the same builds, as before the expansion and the elites that were marketed were intended to drastically impact the way you play the class. Now since there is just one elite spec for each class, the balance will obviously be a bit off compared to the “vanilla” traitlines until such time as more elite lines show up.
Until then, either play the core game that is the same as it always was, or buy to play the full game. No sub fee, no P2W (since owning the game isnt considered P2W, lets face it).

Hmm, the only result would be that the promoted spec can no longer be picked together with a different elite spec. For example elementalists could no longer pick tempest and arcane at the same time. While this would certainly “enforce” some core builds, because people are potentially forced to choose between two specs they’d like to take, I believe that further limiting the available choices is a bad move.

I know this is the price but I think this situation is better than the current one.
If today you are forced to take you elite spec (wich is the case for most class), you have to choose 2 spec between 5, you have 10 combinations avaible.
With my system, you choose one elite between 2, and 2 base spec between 4, you have 12 combinations avaible. You would have 6 new combinations avaible for each elite spec release.
On the other hand, if elite spec is balanced to the other spec lvl, with the current system you have 20 combinations avaible (so it seems the best situation) but this number would increase exponentially with each elite spec release … considering Anet isnt the best team for balancing classes, Im not sure this system is the best.

SkyShroud.2865:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

Love it!

Scipion.7548:

On the other hand, if elite spec is balanced to the other spec lvl, with the current system you have 20 combinations avaible (so it seems the best situation) but this number would increase exponentially with each elite spec release … considering Anet isnt the best team for balancing classes, Im not sure this system is the best.

Ah, so your suggestion was not simply to flag one spec as elite, but also to buff/adjust it until it’s on par with HoT’s elite spec.

That could actually work if ANet understands the reason why elite specs are superior to 3/5 of the core specs. It’s not about raw number buffing, but rather about making the elite spec fit into any build.

I would have bought the ability to have an Elite core spec. I play Rangers, I would have payed for a Ranger elite over a bizarre hybrid druid. Say, one where I could drop the Pet, become a real Ranger as opposed to a Wow Hunter class, and have a line that made up the pet DPS loss.

Most Rangers in GW dropped the pet anyway, because we could.

In PvP I can understand. But in PvE, what exactly do you “win” ?

But to be honest, there is always a huge advantage with any expansion. Just having access to all the skills is a huge advantage. Being able to play with and having experience with the new things is a huge advantage.

What you are basically saying is that any future addition should be free otherwise it’s pay to win.

Personally I think you’re using the whole HoT specialisations are stronger argument as an excuse whenever you fail in PvP.

Buy the xpac.

/thread

Same thing with Guild wars 1 and the Factions that unlocked new skills…I really don’t get these threads.It would be p2w if they were selling the skills in the gemstore for 800gems each.

Caedmon.6798:

Same thing with Guild wars 1 and the Factions that unlocked new skills…I really don’t get these threads.It would be p2w if they were selling the skills in the gemstore for 800gems each.

They unlocked both new skills and new professions when Guild Wars 1 added Nighfall and Factions. The Dervish, Assassin and the Ritualist.

And Paragon.