Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats and no content that requires higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

Which is ironic because some players complain this game is turning into WoW when I am sad to say the problem is players refuse to play this game in a different way then they play WoW thats problem right there. Thats whats creating these issues right there. Ohh I have to have BiS at any costs and as quickly as possible even though the game tries really hard to ensure BiS is not needed any entirely optional just like cosmetic armor is. Why should I play in Lornar’s Pass, I make more money in Orr. Play Mini games? whats the point? Jumping puzzles? not enough reward based on effort required etc.. etc..

Let me ask you this… why are playing amasing around running dungeons, Orr event farming or champion trains? is it because its the only content the game offers? hmm nope definitely not the case. Its because people don’t care about the content they care about the rewards. So really what do you expect Arenanet to do if players are tying their hands up ? Would removing these rewards satisfy those players you’re speaking off yourself you think?

They did the best possible thing they could do. Give them the rewards they crave, make them take long to get to keep them happy for as long as possible by providing them a goal they can work towards and make these rewards entirely optional so that players who enjoy content rather then rewards would not have to give up the content they enjoy to get those rewards further more make sure that playing enough of any content will get you those rewards anyway in the long run. What could they possibly do thats better then what they did really?

Quite contrary, ANet tied their own hands up by caving in to small vocal whiney minority. Now that they started gear grind treadmill they have to deal with its consequences, and guess what – dealing with that same consequences is what gear grind treadmill games have been (unsuccessfully) dealing with since EQ. Furthermore, GW2 wasnt even designed for gear treadmill which will make it even worse.

And, one big big point: people who whined about no endgame STILL have no endgame, just new tier of gear for sake of new tier of gear.

So what you’re saying now is that a minority of players do dungeons, do champion trains and farm Orr Events? cause If so I would love to know where the majority of the players are because I have yet to see people complain that there are just too many people playing in mid – low level maps, doing jumping puzzles or playing mini games while the opposite is an extremely common topic that you yourself even mentioned in your post to Vayne. As much as you dont want it to be the case people who value rewards over content are the overwhelming majority not a vocal minority.

You really dont get it, sorry dude, youve proven in the past that its pretty much not worth responding to you.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

And this design so no longer valid. You have to do certain content if you want to acquire new gear. At launch you had four ways to get new shinies, now just one.

I think it still is.

Ascended trinkets can be acquired by doing dailies (which in turn can be completed by playing any content in the game from PvE to sPvP to WvW) They can be acquired Doing guild Missions and they can also be acquired running fractals. That basically hits everything the game has to offer

Ascended weapon can be acquired either through crafting or a drop. Lets forget drop for now. What do you need to craft it? Stuff you get by playing any kind of content. You feel like Dungeons? great you get dragonite Ore, gold you can use to buy mats / ectos etc.. You get rare drops you can salvage for ectos. Today you feel like Playing in Level 35 zone? materials you gather there is used in crafting of Ascended weapons too. You hate doing Dungeons? no problem Dragonite ore can also be acquired doing world bosses or guild missions or WvW or Invasions.

The game still gives you plenty of freedom how to acquire your rewards.

You could also go the drop route if you dont want to craft. Its a bit tricker true but nearly anything you might choose to play short of sPvP could drop it for you.

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats and no content that requires higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

Which is ironic because some players complain this game is turning into WoW when I am sad to say the problem is players refuse to play this game in a different way then they play WoW thats problem right there. Thats whats creating these issues right there. Ohh I have to have BiS at any costs and as quickly as possible even though the game tries really hard to ensure BiS is not needed any entirely optional just like cosmetic armor is. Why should I play in Lornar’s Pass, I make more money in Orr. Play Mini games? whats the point? Jumping puzzles? not enough reward based on effort required etc.. etc..

Let me ask you this… why are playing amasing around running dungeons, Orr event farming or champion trains? is it because its the only content the game offers? hmm nope definitely not the case. Its because people don’t care about the content they care about the rewards. So really what do you expect Arenanet to do if players are tying their hands up ? Would removing these rewards satisfy those players you’re speaking off yourself you think?

They did the best possible thing they could do. Give them the rewards they crave, make them take long to get to keep them happy for as long as possible by providing them a goal they can work towards and make these rewards entirely optional so that players who enjoy content rather then rewards would not have to give up the content they enjoy to get those rewards further more make sure that playing enough of any content will get you those rewards anyway in the long run. What could they possibly do thats better then what they did really?

Quite contrary, ANet tied their own hands up by caving in to small vocal whiney minority. Now that they started gear grind treadmill they have to deal with its consequences, and guess what – dealing with that same consequences is what gear grind treadmill games have been (unsuccessfully) dealing with since EQ. Furthermore, GW2 wasnt even designed for gear treadmill which will make it even worse.

And, one big big point: people who whined about no endgame STILL have no endgame, just new tier of gear for sake of new tier of gear.

So what you’re saying now is that a minority of players do dungeons, do champion trains and farm Orr Events? cause If so I would love to know where the majority of the players are because I have yet to see people complain that there are just too many people playing in mid – low level maps, doing jumping puzzles or playing mini games while the opposite is an extremely common topic that you yourself even mentioned in your post to Vayne. As much as you dont want it to be the case people who value rewards over content are the overwhelming majority not a vocal minority.

You really dont get it, sorry dude, youve proven in the past that its pretty much not worth responding to you.

Sure, dont worry I am sure the reply will be of value to people who might be a bit more objective so no waste there. Feel free to ignore me when I reply to your posts I dont mind at all.

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats and no content that requires higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

Which is ironic because some players complain this game is turning into WoW when I am sad to say the problem is players refuse to play this game in a different way then they play WoW thats problem right there. Thats whats creating these issues right there. Ohh I have to have BiS at any costs and as quickly as possible even though the game tries really hard to ensure BiS is not needed any entirely optional just like cosmetic armor is. Why should I play in Lornar’s Pass, I make more money in Orr. Play Mini games? whats the point? Jumping puzzles? not enough reward based on effort required etc.. etc..

Let me ask you this… why are playing amasing around running dungeons, Orr event farming or champion trains? is it because its the only content the game offers? hmm nope definitely not the case. Its because people don’t care about the content they care about the rewards. So really what do you expect Arenanet to do if players are tying their hands up ? Would removing these rewards satisfy those players you’re speaking off yourself you think?

They did the best possible thing they could do. Give them the rewards they crave, make them take long to get to keep them happy for as long as possible by providing them a goal they can work towards and make these rewards entirely optional so that players who enjoy content rather then rewards would not have to give up the content they enjoy to get those rewards further more make sure that playing enough of any content will get you those rewards anyway in the long run. What could they possibly do thats better then what they did really?

Quite contrary, ANet tied their own hands up by caving in to small vocal whiney minority. Now that they started gear grind treadmill they have to deal with its consequences, and guess what – dealing with that same consequences is what gear grind treadmill games have been (unsuccessfully) dealing with since EQ. Furthermore, GW2 wasnt even designed for gear treadmill which will make it even worse.

And, one big big point: people who whined about no endgame STILL have no endgame, just new tier of gear for sake of new tier of gear.

So what you’re saying now is that a minority of players do dungeons, do champion trains and farm Orr Events? cause If so I would love to know where the majority of the players are because I have yet to see people complain that there are just too many people playing in mid – low level maps, doing jumping puzzles or playing mini games while the opposite is an extremely common topic that you yourself even mentioned in your post to Vayne. As much as you dont want it to be the case people who value rewards over content are the overwhelming majority not a vocal minority.

You really dont get it, sorry dude, youve proven in the past that its pretty much not worth responding to you.

Sure, dont worry I am sure the reply will be of value to people who might be a bit more objective so no waste there. Feel free to ignore me when I reply to your posts I dont mind at all.

I grant you your wish and ignore you, post history is there for everyone to see.

Half of you are complaining about grinds…sure, that’s a valid concern, but, what’s the problem here? Is someone forcing you to do it? … I mean, I’ve been playing since start-3, and have taken a break of about 4 months or so during the last winter… I came back, and I can still do everything that I did then, no matter the fact that some peeps have a shiny I don’t have. Ok, I might take 20 mins instead of 15 on a path of somesort, but is that making such a HUGE difference?

MikaHR.1978:

pay per hour is not a sub.

And thats Blizzards payment model in China. They lump it in with subs.

Pay per Hour certainly is a sub, it is nothing more than a smaller version of Paying Per Month. Paying a sub with in game money, which Eve does, is not a sub though /rolleyes

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

pay per hour is not a sub.

And thats Blizzards payment model in China. They lump it in with subs.

Pay per Hour certainly is a sub, it is nothing more than a smaller version of Paying Per Month. Paying a sub with in game money, which Eve does, is not a sub though /rolleyes

Eve has 3 players each with 165,000 accounts. lol

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

pay per hour is not a sub.

And thats Blizzards payment model in China. They lump it in with subs.

Pay per Hour certainly is a sub, it is nothing more than a smaller version of Paying Per Month. Paying a sub with in game money, which Eve does, is not a sub though /rolleyes

So you dont know definition of subscription. It reckons. Its because people like you Blizzard can redefine subscription.

Guess you are Vaynes “target audience”.

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Vayne.8563:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

pay per hour is not a sub.

And thats Blizzards payment model in China. They lump it in with subs.

Pay per Hour certainly is a sub, it is nothing more than a smaller version of Paying Per Month. Paying a sub with in game money, which Eve does, is not a sub though /rolleyes

Eve has 3 players each with 165,000 accounts. lol

Wow, thats best you could come up with. But its no better or worse than you other “arguments”.

Keep it coming bro

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Yep, WoW is down to 14 times the entire user base of Eve, assuming that everyone who has a subscription is an individual, something I know that’s not true. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Eve too…but that is harder to prove.

Of course, if I can’t prove something, I at least admit it.

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Look it up yourself, the burden is on YOU to prove there wasnt since YOU brought it up.

Check back in when you do

Vayne.8563:

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Yep, WoW is down to 14 times the entire user base of Eve, assuming that everyone who has a subscription is an individual, something I know that’s not true. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Eve too…but that is harder to prove.

Of course, if I can’t prove something, I at least admit it.

Yup, WoW lost “only” 5 million players. Is that bragging rights or what.

Vayne.8563:

This is all about killing stuff on a screen and getting rewarded for it. At the end of the day, that’s all most MMOs are. So you like your killing in an instance, with all sorts of like tricks that make it “hard”., and I like my killing in the open world.

The difference is, I don’t go around posting about how your content is meaningless, while you claim my content is.

You can press 1 all day and get bis gear but why do I have to be forced to participate in cancer-inducing content?

Your content is as meaningless as every other, rehashed old crap. There was no meaningful content update for instance players since november.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Yep, WoW is down to 14 times the entire user base of Eve, assuming that everyone who has a subscription is an individual, something I know that’s not true. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Eve too…but that is harder to prove.

Of course, if I can’t prove something, I at least admit it.

Yup, WoW lost “only” 5 million players. Is that bragging rights or what.

And how many players did Eve gain in that time period? How do you know they’re players and not just people with second and third accounts?

Oh, right, you don’t.

I’m not sure WoW ever had a population as low as Eve does at its height…and I don’t even like WoW and wouldn’t give that game the time of day. I think Eve is a much better game. But it’s clearly niche.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Yep, WoW is down to 14 times the entire user base of Eve, assuming that everyone who has a subscription is an individual, something I know that’s not true. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Eve too…but that is harder to prove.

Of course, if I can’t prove something, I at least admit it.

Yup, WoW lost “only” 5 million players. Is that bragging rights or what.

And how many players did Eve gain in that time period? How do you know they’re players and not just people with second and third accounts?

Oh, right, you don’t.

I’m not sure WoW ever had a population as low as Eve does at its height…and I don’t even like WoW and wouldn’t give that game the time of day. I think Eve is a much better game. But it’s clearly niche.

Ahahahahha, yes, EvE is a giant conspiracy where people pay for 10 accounts just to give larger sub numbers ROFL

Keep it coming bro

EvE is one of the rare games that arent ashamed of the numbers and you can track concurrency and they regualry publish sub numbers. But then its the only growing MMO, what numbers has ANet gave us? Eh, some lunch and thats IT. Oh yes, they said occasionaly they see raised numbers, but since you yourself stronly argued all they say is BS, well, thats BS too.

And whatever EvE gained, even if 1 its still 5 million less lost than WoW.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Yep, WoW is down to 14 times the entire user base of Eve, assuming that everyone who has a subscription is an individual, something I know that’s not true. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Eve too…but that is harder to prove.

Of course, if I can’t prove something, I at least admit it.

Yup, WoW lost “only” 5 million players. Is that bragging rights or what.

And how many players did Eve gain in that time period? How do you know they’re players and not just people with second and third accounts?

Oh, right, you don’t.

I’m not sure WoW ever had a population as low as Eve does at its height…and I don’t even like WoW and wouldn’t give that game the time of day. I think Eve is a much better game. But it’s clearly niche.

Ahahahahha, yes, EvE is a giant conspiracy where people pay for 10 accounts just to give larger sub numbers ROFL

Keep it coming bro

EvE is one of the rare games that arent ashamed of the numbers and you can track concurrency and they regualry publish sub numbers. But then its the only growing MMO, what numbers has ANet gave us? Eh, some lunch and thats IT. Oh yes, they said occasionaly they see raised numbers, but since you yourself stronly argued all they say is BS, well, thats BS too.

Yep, I’ve seen the concurrency figures of Eve. Rather low, those. I guess a niche game is going to have that.

Galen Grey.4709:

I think it still is.

Ascended weapon can be acquired either through crafting or a drop. Lets forget drop for now. What do you need to craft it? Stuff you get by playing any kind of content. You feel like Dungeons? great you get dragonite Ore, gold you can use to buy mats / ectos etc.. You get rare drops you can salvage for ectos. Today you feel like Playing in Level 35 zone? materials you gather there is used in crafting of Ascended weapons too. You hate doing Dungeons? no problem Dragonite ore can also be acquired doing world bosses or guild missions or WvW or Invasions.

You don’t get dragonites for dungeons. That’s my issue. You have to buy a monkey to faceroll temple events. Or get yourself a cancer.

The game still gives you plenty of freedom how to acquire your rewards.

If you think so, you’re delusional.

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

pay per hour is not a sub.

And thats Blizzards payment model in China. They lump it in with subs.

Pay per Hour certainly is a sub, it is nothing more than a smaller version of Paying Per Month. Paying a sub with in game money, which Eve does, is not a sub though /rolleyes

So you dont know definition of subscription. It reckons. Its because people like you Blizzard can redefine subscription.

Guess you are Vaynes “target audience”.

From Webster:
Subscription:
an agreement that you make with a company to get a publication or service regularly and that you usually pay for in advance

So yup, hourly subscription is certainly a subscription. Looks like to me you are the one that wants to redefine what a subscription is.

MikaHR.1978:

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

Eve Online has made ~$300 Million in Revenue in it’s life time (10 years). If GW2 keeps on making the revenue it has been making, it will surpass Eve Online in Revenue in ~ 3 years (and that doesn’t include the revenue from the first 3 million game sales.) Eve Online has been bringing in revenue of about 30 Million per year, GW2 made $25 Million in the last 3 months quarter. Eve online is certainly a success, but it is not a “champ” when compared to other MMOs revenues.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Yep, WoW is down to 14 times the entire user base of Eve, assuming that everyone who has a subscription is an individual, something I know that’s not true. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Eve too…but that is harder to prove.

Of course, if I can’t prove something, I at least admit it.

Yup, WoW lost “only” 5 million players. Is that bragging rights or what.

And how many players did Eve gain in that time period? How do you know they’re players and not just people with second and third accounts?

Oh, right, you don’t.

I’m not sure WoW ever had a population as low as Eve does at its height…and I don’t even like WoW and wouldn’t give that game the time of day. I think Eve is a much better game. But it’s clearly niche.

Ahahahahha, yes, EvE is a giant conspiracy where people pay for 10 accounts just to give larger sub numbers ROFL

Keep it coming bro

EvE is one of the rare games that arent ashamed of the numbers and you can track concurrency and they regualry publish sub numbers. But then its the only growing MMO, what numbers has ANet gave us? Eh, some lunch and thats IT. Oh yes, they said occasionaly they see raised numbers, but since you yourself stronly argued all they say is BS, well, thats BS too.

Yep, I’ve seen the concurrency figures of Eve. Rather low, those. I guess a niche game is going to have that.

This is where you enormous lack of experience in MMOs shows. Sorry dude, but educate yourself first.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

pay per hour is not a sub.

And thats Blizzards payment model in China. They lump it in with subs.

Pay per Hour certainly is a sub, it is nothing more than a smaller version of Paying Per Month. Paying a sub with in game money, which Eve does, is not a sub though /rolleyes

So you dont know definition of subscription. It reckons. Its because people like you Blizzard can redefine subscription.

Guess you are Vaynes “target audience”.

From Webster:
Subscription:
an agreement that you make with a company to get a publication or service regularly and that you usually pay for in advance

So yup, hourly subscription is certainly a subscription. Looks like to me you are the one that wants to redefine what a subscription is.

Hourly subscription?

Rofl, keep it coming bro

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Yep, WoW is down to 14 times the entire user base of Eve, assuming that everyone who has a subscription is an individual, something I know that’s not true. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Eve too…but that is harder to prove.

Of course, if I can’t prove something, I at least admit it.

Yup, WoW lost “only” 5 million players. Is that bragging rights or what.

And how many players did Eve gain in that time period? How do you know they’re players and not just people with second and third accounts?

Oh, right, you don’t.

I’m not sure WoW ever had a population as low as Eve does at its height…and I don’t even like WoW and wouldn’t give that game the time of day. I think Eve is a much better game. But it’s clearly niche.

Ahahahahha, yes, EvE is a giant conspiracy where people pay for 10 accounts just to give larger sub numbers ROFL

Keep it coming bro

EvE is one of the rare games that arent ashamed of the numbers and you can track concurrency and they regualry publish sub numbers. But then its the only growing MMO, what numbers has ANet gave us? Eh, some lunch and thats IT. Oh yes, they said occasionaly they see raised numbers, but since you yourself stronly argued all they say is BS, well, thats BS too.

Yep, I’ve seen the concurrency figures of Eve. Rather low, those. I guess a niche game is going to have that.

This is where you enormous lack of experience in MMOs shows. Sorry dude, but educate yourself first.

Yes everyone here is reading this thread and can make their own judgement on which of the two of us are inexperienced.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

Eve Online has made ~$300 Million in Revenue in it’s life time (10 years). If GW2 keeps on making the revenue it has been making, it will surpass Eve Online in Revenue in ~ 3 years (and that doesn’t include the revenue from the first 3 million game sales.) Eve Online has been bringing in revenue of about 30 Million per year, GW2 made $25 Million in the last 3 months quarter. Eve online is certainly a success, but it is not a “champ” when compared to other MMOs revenues.

Math is hard. Multiplying 3 numbers is enormous obstacle for some people. like 500000*15*12

I figure speaking about what is revenue and how it matters very little is pretty much out of the question

Keep at it bro

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

Eve Online has made ~$300 Million in Revenue in it’s life time (10 years). If GW2 keeps on making the revenue it has been making, it will surpass Eve Online in Revenue in ~ 3 years (and that doesn’t include the revenue from the first 3 million game sales.) Eve Online has been bringing in revenue of about 30 Million per year, GW2 made $25 Million in the last 3 months quarter. Eve online is certainly a success, but it is not a “champ” when compared to other MMOs revenues.

Math is hard. Multiplying 3 numbers is enormous obstacke for some people. like 500000*15*12

Chinese players pay no where near $15 a month in subscription. $15 a month would not be sustainable in China, no one would be able to afford to play the game.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

Eve Online has made ~$300 Million in Revenue in it’s life time (10 years). If GW2 keeps on making the revenue it has been making, it will surpass Eve Online in Revenue in ~ 3 years (and that doesn’t include the revenue from the first 3 million game sales.) Eve Online has been bringing in revenue of about 30 Million per year, GW2 made $25 Million in the last 3 months quarter. Eve online is certainly a success, but it is not a “champ” when compared to other MMOs revenues.

Math is hard. Multiplying 3 numbers is enormous obstacke for some people. like 500000*15*12

Chinese players pay no where near $15 a month in subscription. $15 a month would not be sustainable in China, no one would be able to afford to play the game.

EvE is not WoW ROFL. EvE is ultra niche game that doesnt have to cater to the masses.

WoW is not sustainable with subscription in China, true, thats WHY it runs on few cents per hour and no box cost.

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

Eve Online has made ~$300 Million in Revenue in it’s life time (10 years). If GW2 keeps on making the revenue it has been making, it will surpass Eve Online in Revenue in ~ 3 years (and that doesn’t include the revenue from the first 3 million game sales.) Eve Online has been bringing in revenue of about 30 Million per year, GW2 made $25 Million in the last 3 months quarter. Eve online is certainly a success, but it is not a “champ” when compared to other MMOs revenues.

Math is hard. Multiplying 3 numbers is enormous obstacke for some people. like 500000*15*12

Chinese players pay no where near $15 a month in subscription. $15 a month would not be sustainable in China, no one would be able to afford to play the game.

EvE is not WoW ROFL

That makes no sense. How is that a reply to people in china are not paying $15 a month in subscription fees? You just say “rofl” to things that you have no real reply for. You said I didn’t know what subscription means, I show you a definition from Webster, and it proves that hourly subscription is certainly a subscription, and all you can say is “rofl”. Just means you have no real reply to something that proves you wrong.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

Eve Online has made ~$300 Million in Revenue in it’s life time (10 years). If GW2 keeps on making the revenue it has been making, it will surpass Eve Online in Revenue in ~ 3 years (and that doesn’t include the revenue from the first 3 million game sales.) Eve Online has been bringing in revenue of about 30 Million per year, GW2 made $25 Million in the last 3 months quarter. Eve online is certainly a success, but it is not a “champ” when compared to other MMOs revenues.

Math is hard. Multiplying 3 numbers is enormous obstacke for some people. like 500000*15*12

Chinese players pay no where near $15 a month in subscription. $15 a month would not be sustainable in China, no one would be able to afford to play the game.

EvE is not WoW ROFL

That makes no sense. How is that a reply to people in china are not paying $15 a month in subscription fees? You just say “rofl” to things that you have no real reply for. You said I didn’t know what subscription means, I show you a definition from Webster, and it proves that hourly subscription is certainly a subscription, and all you can say is “rofl”. Just means you have no real reply to something that proves you wrong.

Again, man, really, keep it coming. rofl

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

With all this arguing about MMO X vs MMO Y I think we’re losing sight of the point that ArenaNet kittened off a whole bunch of people with this Ascended gear – both in principle (prefer skill-based vs gear-based) and in practice (don’t like grinding mats/crafting/whatever in order to prepare to have fun).

I can say that many players who get kittened off at one game go find another.

Yep. Many players. And many players have stayed. This has been my point all along.

No one knows how many people would have left if Anet stayed the course. It’s not possible to know.

In your mind you believe Anet is losing more players than they’re keeping. I don’t believe that’s true…and I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t either. A dev has told me concurrency numbers are on the rise and have been for some time.

I agree you were screwed over by the changes…but that doesn’t make them bad changes. They’re just changes that don’t work for people who share your sentiments.

I don’t know if they’re losing more than they’re gaining or not. I do know they lost me. So if anyone’s keeping track of numbers, they can add +1 to the tally.

I was getting away from that losing vs gaining argument, not adding to it. How ’bout we get back on topic?

Edit: And Vayne, stop putting words in my mouth. You do that virtually every time you quote someone. It’s no wonder people get on your case so much.

You said “many players get kittened off”..and while that’s no doubt true, if those players are a minority, then your point is moot.

What’s his point? I thought the extent of what he was saying was just that he and some other players were upset with the direction of the game.

It’s not just that some players are kittened off and it’s not about one post. The faction that is kittened off are saying (including Chuo) that this was a huge portion of the player base. It wasn’t just like her and a couple of friends. It was a lot of people.

Alright. But is that what he said right there? I could only gather from that post that he and other people are upset with the game.

What he said right there is no different than what he said in countless other threads. People are mad. We’ve known those people were mad since last November. They’ve been made since then…at a game they’re disappointed in.

The direction of the game changed…no one denies it. Ten months on and they’re still mad. They come to the forums of this game to complain about ascended gear..that was announced last November. You’d think by now they’d have figured out that the game has changed, it’s not for them, and they’d find a game that was.

Because saying OMFG there’s vertical progression in the game for ten months solves what? Is Anet going to stop and take it all out tomorrow?

I don’t like the vertical progression either. I’m not in complete disagreement with what’s being said. The only difference is, I’m not taking the inclusion of vertical progression as a personal attack. Anet saw a problem, Anet moved to fix the problem. I don’t agree it was the best solution by ten months on? I think people would have moved on by now, instead of hanging around to complain on a forum over a change that was announced so long ago.

Even I think the game is too grindy. So?

I think, at least for me (as one of those who has been complaining about this for a long time (maybe not quite November)) I think I remain with the game due to a lack of a better alternatives (if someone has one, please PM me, I know you can’t post one) but at the same time I remain deeply disappointed in this direction.

Once the new MMOs come out next year you will see a drop off in complaints.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Oh really? Can you list a few, just for my amusement?

Yep, WoW is down to 14 times the entire user base of Eve, assuming that everyone who has a subscription is an individual, something I know that’s not true. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Eve too…but that is harder to prove.

Of course, if I can’t prove something, I at least admit it.

Yup, WoW lost “only” 5 million players. Is that bragging rights or what.

And how many players did Eve gain in that time period? How do you know they’re players and not just people with second and third accounts?

Oh, right, you don’t.

I’m not sure WoW ever had a population as low as Eve does at its height…and I don’t even like WoW and wouldn’t give that game the time of day. I think Eve is a much better game. But it’s clearly niche.

Ahahahahha, yes, EvE is a giant conspiracy where people pay for 10 accounts just to give larger sub numbers ROFL

Keep it coming bro

EvE is one of the rare games that arent ashamed of the numbers and you can track concurrency and they regualry publish sub numbers. But then its the only growing MMO, what numbers has ANet gave us? Eh, some lunch and thats IT. Oh yes, they said occasionaly they see raised numbers, but since you yourself stronly argued all they say is BS, well, thats BS too.

And whatever EvE gained, even if 1 its still 5 million less lost than WoW.

I played EvE for 6 years. I did have one Guild mate once who for as long as knew him had 6 active accounts all of which were payed with plex. Why 6 accounts? because Eve lets you sell accounts for in game money so he would just train accounts and sell them and with the profits maintain those 6 accounts through plex.

Vayne is exagerating obviously but he is right that not everyone of those 500k subscription is a player. Just look at this guy for example:
http://technabob.com/blog/2010/04/11/eve-multi-boxing-rig/

there is even specialize software that allows you play multiple accounts at the same time for eve online
Example:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

With all this arguing about MMO X vs MMO Y I think we’re losing sight of the point that ArenaNet kittened off a whole bunch of people with this Ascended gear – both in principle (prefer skill-based vs gear-based) and in practice (don’t like grinding mats/crafting/whatever in order to prepare to have fun).

I can say that many players who get kittened off at one game go find another.

Yep. Many players. And many players have stayed. This has been my point all along.

No one knows how many people would have left if Anet stayed the course. It’s not possible to know.

In your mind you believe Anet is losing more players than they’re keeping. I don’t believe that’s true…and I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t either. A dev has told me concurrency numbers are on the rise and have been for some time.

I agree you were screwed over by the changes…but that doesn’t make them bad changes. They’re just changes that don’t work for people who share your sentiments.

I don’t know if they’re losing more than they’re gaining or not. I do know they lost me. So if anyone’s keeping track of numbers, they can add +1 to the tally.

I was getting away from that losing vs gaining argument, not adding to it. How ’bout we get back on topic?

Edit: And Vayne, stop putting words in my mouth. You do that virtually every time you quote someone. It’s no wonder people get on your case so much.

You said “many players get kittened off”..and while that’s no doubt true, if those players are a minority, then your point is moot.

What’s his point? I thought the extent of what he was saying was just that he and some other players were upset with the direction of the game.

It’s not just that some players are kittened off and it’s not about one post. The faction that is kittened off are saying (including Chuo) that this was a huge portion of the player base. It wasn’t just like her and a couple of friends. It was a lot of people.

Alright. But is that what he said right there? I could only gather from that post that he and other people are upset with the game.

What he said right there is no different than what he said in countless other threads. People are mad. We’ve known those people were mad since last November. They’ve been made since then…at a game they’re disappointed in.

The direction of the game changed…no one denies it. Ten months on and they’re still mad. They come to the forums of this game to complain about ascended gear..that was announced last November. You’d think by now they’d have figured out that the game has changed, it’s not for them, and they’d find a game that was.

Because saying OMFG there’s vertical progression in the game for ten months solves what? Is Anet going to stop and take it all out tomorrow?

I don’t like the vertical progression either. I’m not in complete disagreement with what’s being said. The only difference is, I’m not taking the inclusion of vertical progression as a personal attack. Anet saw a problem, Anet moved to fix the problem. I don’t agree it was the best solution by ten months on? I think people would have moved on by now, instead of hanging around to complain on a forum over a change that was announced so long ago.

Even I think the game is too grindy. So?

I think, at least for me (as one of those who has been complaining about this for a long time (maybe not quite November)) I think I remain with the game due to a lack of a better alternatives (if someone has one, please PM me, I know you can’t post one) but at the same time I remain deeply disappointed in this direction.

Once the new MMOs come out next year you will see a drop off in complaints.

I can’t wait, actually…because I know what happens. SWToR was once one of those new MMOs. TSW was. Hell, Neverwinter was a new MMO, people talked about it and now I hear nothing about it.

Everyone talks up the next big MMO and has been for years..but there hasn’t been a next big MMO because it’s easier to say what you’re going to do than to accomplish doing it.

There are too many people who want too many conflicting things. You can’t please everyone (and you need to to have a blockbuster) or you remain niche. I don’t see any new MMO having less problems implementing change than Guild Wars 2 has had.

But I’ll be happy when those people who aren’t happy find something they’re happy with.

And 1 guy had 40 accounts in WoW.

NO GAME HAS SAME AMOUNT OF PLAYERS AS IT HAS SUBSCRIPTIONS.

I let it sink in rofl

And it STILL doesnt have anything to do with EvE still growing.

Vayne.8563:

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.

Some? Pretty much everyone returned, it was a protest quit, started out so. And really, many of those that “quit”, quit their alt accounts hehe. It was a message sent, and a message which in fact was received. Active accounts not only recovered, but surpassed the previous records.

But we are talking players that have been active for years, in a game that has increased it’s subscriber base consistently since launch ten years ago. GW2 is not old enough to be in that category, true loyalty has not been established yet. In fact I still have many players on my friends list that haven’t logged back into this game for over six months, and in a game that requires no subscription fee. I have new friends dropping out all the time, just unimpressed with the direction things have changed to. Oh and don’t get me started in on inactive guild lists.

IMO Anet is taking a huge gamble, and I can’t say they will be the better off for it in the long run. I have both games installed (I usually play 2 mmo’s), but I’m less certain how long GW2 will remain installed the way things have been going. I’ve never uninstalled the other, though I was part of that protest quit, respectively. Such a thing won’t work here, and I doubt I’d try if it could work, there in no built up loyalty either way, not to them and not to us, obviously. Went through the same thing with SWG, they wanted new/different players, reaching out to some other group of players they didn’t even have yet, invented the full-surprise NGE update and hemorrhaged accounts to never return. Many of use then found EVE, the obvious replacement, and CCP has been good to us.

Some people stopped and never went back and other people left because they felt the game later on had become a full time job. But more to the point, most players that start playing Eve don’t continue playing Eve. It really and truly is a niche game. It survives on subscriptions, not on numbers. If it didn’t have a monthly fee, it would be quite dead.

How many Eve players have more than one account, do you know? Do most players have two accounts? If not what percentage does.

There aren’t half a million people playing Eve, there are half a million subscribers, which is another matter entirely. And it’s still a game that’s a sandbox. Most of the content is made by the playerbase..rather than CCP.

So now you are saying it doesn’t count because it’s a “niche game”? One of the top 10 largest in the industry. And even though I was there and involved in the protest I don’t know what was really going on …despite the recovery and growth as soon as the issue was resolved? So what, is WoW the only game we can use as an example here since it is the ‘popular’ (well marketed) game and all mmo’s quiver in it’s shadow?

Meanwhile EVE continues to consistently grow (what other mmo’s have ever done that?) over the long-run, and continues to win major industry awards to this day. It’s probably one of the few games I would bet on still being around in another 10 years (then – it being 20 years old). More developers should follow CCP as an example of developer – community relations. Not “great” but good, as I used good as the descriptive word to rate their dev vs. player relationship. Still a better example than any other game I can think of.

Oh and the worst example: it wasn’t until after SWG was shut down did they actually admit that maybe… NGE wasn’t such a good idea… and the way they handled all that heh. Greatest example of what never to do. Best example of a fractured dev – community relationship, by far.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

I think it still is.

Ascended weapon can be acquired either through crafting or a drop. Lets forget drop for now. What do you need to craft it? Stuff you get by playing any kind of content. You feel like Dungeons? great you get dragonite Ore, gold you can use to buy mats / ectos etc.. You get rare drops you can salvage for ectos. Today you feel like Playing in Level 35 zone? materials you gather there is used in crafting of Ascended weapons too. You hate doing Dungeons? no problem Dragonite ore can also be acquired doing world bosses or guild missions or WvW or Invasions.

You don’t get dragonites for dungeons. That’s my issue. You have to buy a monkey to faceroll temple events. Or get yourself a cancer.

The game still gives you plenty of freedom how to acquire your rewards.

If you think so, you’re delusional.

You’re right, my mistake thought dragonite dropped from dungeons, I checked it doesnt sorry.

But its not just temple events either. You also have world bosses, WvW and Guild missions.

Vayne.8563:

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

With all this arguing about MMO X vs MMO Y I think we’re losing sight of the point that ArenaNet kittened off a whole bunch of people with this Ascended gear – both in principle (prefer skill-based vs gear-based) and in practice (don’t like grinding mats/crafting/whatever in order to prepare to have fun).

I can say that many players who get kittened off at one game go find another.

Yep. Many players. And many players have stayed. This has been my point all along.

No one knows how many people would have left if Anet stayed the course. It’s not possible to know.

In your mind you believe Anet is losing more players than they’re keeping. I don’t believe that’s true…and I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t either. A dev has told me concurrency numbers are on the rise and have been for some time.

I agree you were screwed over by the changes…but that doesn’t make them bad changes. They’re just changes that don’t work for people who share your sentiments.

I don’t know if they’re losing more than they’re gaining or not. I do know they lost me. So if anyone’s keeping track of numbers, they can add +1 to the tally.

I was getting away from that losing vs gaining argument, not adding to it. How ’bout we get back on topic?

Edit: And Vayne, stop putting words in my mouth. You do that virtually every time you quote someone. It’s no wonder people get on your case so much.

You said “many players get kittened off”..and while that’s no doubt true, if those players are a minority, then your point is moot.

What’s his point? I thought the extent of what he was saying was just that he and some other players were upset with the direction of the game.

It’s not just that some players are kittened off and it’s not about one post. The faction that is kittened off are saying (including Chuo) that this was a huge portion of the player base. It wasn’t just like her and a couple of friends. It was a lot of people.

Alright. But is that what he said right there? I could only gather from that post that he and other people are upset with the game.

What he said right there is no different than what he said in countless other threads. People are mad. We’ve known those people were mad since last November. They’ve been made since then…at a game they’re disappointed in.

The direction of the game changed…no one denies it. Ten months on and they’re still mad. They come to the forums of this game to complain about ascended gear..that was announced last November. You’d think by now they’d have figured out that the game has changed, it’s not for them, and they’d find a game that was.

Because saying OMFG there’s vertical progression in the game for ten months solves what? Is Anet going to stop and take it all out tomorrow?

I don’t like the vertical progression either. I’m not in complete disagreement with what’s being said. The only difference is, I’m not taking the inclusion of vertical progression as a personal attack. Anet saw a problem, Anet moved to fix the problem. I don’t agree it was the best solution by ten months on? I think people would have moved on by now, instead of hanging around to complain on a forum over a change that was announced so long ago.

Even I think the game is too grindy. So?

I think, at least for me (as one of those who has been complaining about this for a long time (maybe not quite November)) I think I remain with the game due to a lack of a better alternatives (if someone has one, please PM me, I know you can’t post one) but at the same time I remain deeply disappointed in this direction.

Once the new MMOs come out next year you will see a drop off in complaints.

I can’t wait, actually…because I know what happens. SWToR was once one of those new MMOs. TSW was. Hell, Neverwinter was a new MMO, people talked about it and now I hear nothing about it.

Everyone talks up the next big MMO and has been for years..but there hasn’t been a next big MMO because it’s easier to say what you’re going to do than to accomplish doing it.

There are too many people who want too many conflicting things. You can’t please everyone (and you need to to have a blockbuster) or you remain niche. I don’t see any new MMO having less problems implementing change than Guild Wars 2 has had.

But I’ll be happy when those people who aren’t happy find something they’re happy with.

Hmm… I may be wrong. Forgot about Neverwinter. That came out after ascended gear and didn’t capture the hears and minds of people. Sigh. I guess your stuck with us.

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.

Some? Pretty much everyone returned, it was a protest quit, started out so. And really, many of those that “quit”, quit their alt accounts hehe. It was a message sent, and a message which in fact was received. Active accounts not only recovered, but surpassed the previous records.

But we are talking players that have been active for years, in a game that has increased it’s subscriber base consistently since launch ten years ago. GW2 is not old enough to be in that category, true loyalty has not been established yet. In fact I still have many players on my friends list that haven’t logged back into this game for over six months, and in a game that requires no subscription fee. I have new friends dropping out all the time, just unimpressed with the direction things have changed to. Oh and don’t get me started in on inactive guild lists.

IMO Anet is taking a huge gamble, and I can’t say they will be the better off for it in the long run. I have both games installed (I usually play 2 mmo’s), but I’m less certain how long GW2 will remain installed the way things have been going. I’ve never uninstalled the other, though I was part of that protest quit, respectively. Such a thing won’t work here, and I doubt I’d try if it could work, there in no built up loyalty either way, not to them and not to us, obviously. Went through the same thing with SWG, they wanted new/different players, reaching out to some other group of players they didn’t even have yet, invented the full-surprise NGE update and hemorrhaged accounts to never return. Many of use then found EVE, the obvious replacement, and CCP has been good to us.

Some people stopped and never went back and other people left because they felt the game later on had become a full time job. But more to the point, most players that start playing Eve don’t continue playing Eve. It really and truly is a niche game. It survives on subscriptions, not on numbers. If it didn’t have a monthly fee, it would be quite dead.

How many Eve players have more than one account, do you know? Do most players have two accounts? If not what percentage does.

There aren’t half a million people playing Eve, there are half a million subscribers, which is another matter entirely. And it’s still a game that’s a sandbox. Most of the content is made by the playerbase..rather than CCP.

So now you are saying it doesn’t count because it’s a “niche game”? One of the top 10 largest in the industry. And even though I was there and involved in the protest I don’t know what was really going on …despite the recovery and growth as soon as the issue was resolved? So what, is WoW the only game we can use as an example here since it is the ‘popular’ (well marketed) game and all mmo’s quiver in it’s shadow?

Meanwhile EVE continues to consistently grow (what other mmo’s have ever done that?) over the long-run, and continues to win major industry awards to this day. It’s probably one of the few games I would bet on still being around in another 10 years (then – it being 20 years old). More developers should follow CCP as an example of developer – community relations. Not “great” but good, as I used good as the descriptive word to rate their dev vs. player relationship. Still a better example than any other game I can think of.

Yes, Eve consistently grows and I’m sure it’s a fine game…not very good for casuals, mind you, but a fine game.

The issue is, subscriptions in Eve don’t equal number of people playing, because many people have multiple accounts. People I know who play do. And some of those accounts aren’t paid for in cash, they’re paid for by playing the game. It’s a very tricky thing to try to pin down what’s going on there.

But I’m not discounting Eve because it’s a niche game. I’m discounting Eve because it’s a sand box game, and Guild Wars 2 isn’t.

See in Guild Wars 2, pretty much ALL the content is made by Anet. In Eve, much of the content, if not most of the content is player made. And while that has advantages, I just don’t see how anyone can, in good faith, compare the games anyway. I said this earlier in this thread.

Theme park MMOs are substantially different from sand box MMOs. You can use Eve as an example all you want, but it won’t change that Guild Wars 2 is a theme park MMO and follows all the hallmarks of that. It should be compared to other themepark MMOs.

I don’t see anything unreasonable about that.

MikaHR.1978:

And 1 guy had 40 accounts in WoW.

NO GAME HAS SAME AMOUNT OF PLAYERS AS IT HAS SUBSCRIPTIONS.

I let it sink in rofl

And it STILL doesnt have anything to do with EvE still growing.

I didnt see anyone say EvE didnt grow, they just said it has a small player base compared to other MMOs which is also true.

if everyone of those 500k players payed $15 which isnt the case cause they periodically do discounts on multiple accounts + multi month subscription discounts. they would earn $90m in a year.. thats less then half of what Gw2 did in its first year. Lets not forget EvE online took 10 years to get to 500k subs. and Gw2 has yet to release in china like EvE Online.

So if EvE online is a giant success story wouldnt that make Gw2 a bigger success story?

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

Eve Online has made ~$300 Million in Revenue in it’s life time (10 years). If GW2 keeps on making the revenue it has been making, it will surpass Eve Online in Revenue in ~ 3 years (and that doesn’t include the revenue from the first 3 million game sales.) Eve Online has been bringing in revenue of about 30 Million per year, GW2 made $25 Million in the last 3 months quarter. Eve online is certainly a success, but it is not a “champ” when compared to other MMOs revenues.

Math is hard. Multiplying 3 numbers is enormous obstacke for some people. like 500000*15*12

Chinese players pay no where near $15 a month in subscription. $15 a month would not be sustainable in China, no one would be able to afford to play the game.

EvE is not WoW ROFL

That makes no sense. How is that a reply to people in china are not paying $15 a month in subscription fees? You just say “rofl” to things that you have no real reply for. You said I didn’t know what subscription means, I show you a definition from Webster, and it proves that hourly subscription is certainly a subscription, and all you can say is “rofl”. Just means you have no real reply to something that proves you wrong.

Again, man, really, keep it coming. rofl

With comments like that, it just shows you are losing the debate, because you have nothing substantial to say.

You made the claim that China is paying $15 a month for a subscription. Then go a head and prove that. Go ahead and prove that a nation with an average wage of $730 a month at the highest pre-tax would be paying $15 a month in subscription fees. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-07/06/content_15555503.htm

Also

Going through Tiancity’s website and going to Tiancity’s Eve Online site, and going through the links there, using google translate, I come to http://pay.tiancity.com/webbank/UserPay.aspx?acode=gnb&bannerName=pay

Sure enough, Chinese players pay 1 Yuan for 10:00, so either 1 Yuan (16 cents) = 10 minutes of game time or 10 hours, not sure which.

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

And 1 guy had 40 accounts in WoW.

NO GAME HAS SAME AMOUNT OF PLAYERS AS IT HAS SUBSCRIPTIONS.

I let it sink in rofl

And it STILL doesnt have anything to do with EvE still growing.

I didnt see anyone say EvE didnt grow, they just said it has a small player base compared to other MMOs which is also true.

if everyone of those 500k players payed $15 which isnt the case cause they periodically do discounts on multiple accounts + multi month subscription discounts. they would earn $90m in a year.. thats less then half of what Gw2 did in its first year. Lets not forget EvE online took 10 years to get to 500k subs. and Gw2 has yet to release in china like EvE Online.

So if EvE online is a giant success story wouldnt that make Gw2 a bigger success story?

Also, Chinese players pay 1 yuan (16 cents in US dollars) for either 10 minutes or 10 Hours, Tiancity (publishers for Eve Online in China) doesn’t state if 10:00 is minutes or hours.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t see anything unreasonable about that.

Just about ‘convenience’ to make your argument set it’s own bar. lol now it doesn’t count because it is a sandbox mmo as opposed to a themepark mmo. uh-huh…
wiggle-wiggle-wiggle-wiggle-wiggle

I don’t think you actually know much about the game you are talking about, sorry, not convinced there, and what your friends have said to you was probably rather vague if they even hardly played the game. Even the understanding of how a sandbox operates in general. It’s certainly far from all being player created content. Maybe you are thinking Second Life? I don’t see how it negates anything, and it certainly does not.

Speaking for myself, I have just one account (I play more than one mmo), and I know that “many” do not have multi accounts. That is mostly among nullsec sovereignty alliances, and then it’s not even a requirement. More so among those that fly either capital ships or mining platforms – but when you are in such an alliance, you can always get escorts and not required to do it all yourself. Even those ships are not really meant to be privately owned, but owned on the corporate level, so operations are not usually solo players using mufti-accounts. Shoot, I had more accounts in UO than I ever did in EVE. Even in some cases the escorts are often more corporate owned, such as the Black Widow (scorpion based cov-ops) used for capital transport ship purposes. So no, it’s far from “most” having 2 accounts or three accounts or whatnot. It’s just a normal mmo like any other. Doesn’t nullify my points made.

edited: meant scorpion class Black Widow. Disclaimer: I’m not posting this example as some form of advert to get people to play it, internet space ships are not everyone’s idea of fun. Just striking similarities and differences on a business model level.

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t see anything unreasonable about that.

Just about ‘convenience’ to make your argument set it’s own bar. lol now it doesn’t count because it is a sandbox mmo as opposed to a themepark mmo. uh-huh…
wiggle-wiggle-wiggle-wiggle-wiggle

I don’t think you actually know much about the game you are talking about, sorry, not convinced there, and what your friends have said to you was probably rather vague if they even hardly played the game. Even the understanding of how a sandbox operates in general. It’s certainly far from all being player created content. Maybe you are thinking Second Life? I don’t see how it negates anything, and it certainly does not.

Speaking for myself, I have just one account (I play more than one mmo), and I know that “many” do not have multi accounts. That is mostly among nullsec sovereignty alliances, and then it’s not even a requirement. More so among those that fly either capital ships or mining platforms – but when you are in such an alliance, you can always get escorts and not required to do it all yourself. Even those ships are not really meant to be privately owned, but owned on the corporate level, so operations are not usually solo players using mufti-accounts. Shoot, I had more accounts in UO than I ever did in EVE. Even in some cases the escorts are often more corporate owned, such as scorpions used for transport purposes. So no, it’s far from “most” having 2 accounts or three accounts or whatnot. It’s just a normal mmo like any other. Doesn’t nullify my points made.

I’m trying to let you off the hook easy by saying it’s a good game,. but niche.

The entire number of people playin Eve right now at it’s maximum, after all these years, is under a sixth of the people who bought Guild Wars 2 accounts.

Guild Wars 2 peak concurrency was far more than double Eve’s peak concurrency. So if Eve is a success story, what does that make Guild Wars 2?

The truth is, we won’t know until Guild Wars 2 is four or five years old. If it’s still around and doing business, I suspect it will be a much bigger success story than Eve.

But all you’re really saying is Eve is doing great after ten years. Well…good for Eve.

And yes, I brought up the sandbox/themepark thing waaaaaaaaaaay earlier in this thread. If you don’t believe it, go look for yourself.

Someone else discounted it, because apparently they think sand boxes and theme park MMOs are the same genre, when in fact MMO isn’t even a genre.

The problem is if they try to focus on every kind of player they aren’t actually focusing on any kind of player.

Truer words have never been better spoken.

One of the biggest failures of modern MMO’s is their inability to understand their target demographic. The average MMO player is getting older; reaching their mid 30’s. If younger generations are part of that target; how is leveling, grinding, and farming going to attract the instant gratification generation?

Vayne.8563:

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t see anything unreasonable about that.

Just about ‘convenience’ to make your argument set it’s own bar. lol now it doesn’t count because it is a sandbox mmo as opposed to a themepark mmo. uh-huh…
wiggle-wiggle-wiggle-wiggle-wiggle

I don’t think you actually know much about the game you are talking about, sorry, not convinced there, and what your friends have said to you was probably rather vague if they even hardly played the game. Even the understanding of how a sandbox operates in general. It’s certainly far from all being player created content. Maybe you are thinking Second Life? I don’t see how it negates anything, and it certainly does not.

Speaking for myself, I have just one account (I play more than one mmo), and I know that “many” do not have multi accounts. That is mostly among nullsec sovereignty alliances, and then it’s not even a requirement. More so among those that fly either capital ships or mining platforms – but when you are in such an alliance, you can always get escorts and not required to do it all yourself. Even those ships are not really meant to be privately owned, but owned on the corporate level, so operations are not usually solo players using mufti-accounts. Shoot, I had more accounts in UO than I ever did in EVE. Even in some cases the escorts are often more corporate owned, such as scorpions used for transport purposes. So no, it’s far from “most” having 2 accounts or three accounts or whatnot. It’s just a normal mmo like any other. Doesn’t nullify my points made.

I’m trying to let you off the hook easy by saying it’s a good game,. but niche.

The entire number of people playin Eve right now at it’s maximum, after all these years, is under a sixth of the people who bought Guild Wars 2 accounts.

Guild Wars 2 peak concurrency was far more than double Eve’s peak concurrency. So if Eve is a success story, what does that make Guild Wars 2?

The truth is, we won’t know until Guild Wars 2 is four or five years old. If it’s still around and doing business, I suspect it will be a much bigger success story than Eve.

But all you’re really saying is Eve is doing great after ten years. Well…good for Eve.

And yes, I brought up the sandbox/themepark thing waaaaaaaaaaay earlier in this thread. If you don’t believe it, go look for yourself.

Someone else discounted it, because apparently they think sand boxes and theme park MMOs are the same genre, when in fact MMO isn’t even a genre.

How expensive is EVE to maintain? How expensive is GW2 to maintain?

You honestly think GW2 cost of operations are cheaper than EVE? It appears to me that EVE runs a more efficient business model and their profit margins must be higher than GW2 despite their niche market.

Ferrari doesn’t make cars for everyone but; they’re an insanely profitable business.

Calae.1738:

The problem is if they try to focus on every kind of player they aren’t actually focusing on any kind of player.

Truer words have never been better spoken.

One of the biggest failures of modern MMO’s is their inability to understand their target demographic. The average MMO player is getting older; reaching their mid 30’s. If younger generations are part of that target; how is leveling, grinding, and farming going to attract the instant gratification generation?

Yeah, one thing I’ve noticed is every 10 years Time magazine publishes an article about the most recent generation coming into their 20’s. It always says that they are impatient and self-absorbed. Do you want to know who is impatient and self-absorbed? 20 year olds. I really don’t think we are any different generation to generation.

Any perceived difference may come down to free time. I had a lot more unstructured time as a child when compared to my children. Kids are kept very busy.

As for older gamers, I had a lot more free time in college than I did when I started working. A lot more free time when I started working than I did when I got married. And a lot more free time when I got married than I did when I had children.

Consequently, I have less and less desire to grind. I imagine it’s the same for anyone else who is time constrained,

Vayne.8563:

I’m trying to let you off the hook easy by saying it’s a good game,. but niche.

The entire number of people playin Eve right now at it’s maximum, after all these years, is under a sixth of the people who bought Guild Wars 2 accounts.

Niche? It’s one of the top 10 mmo’s on the market! It was “niche” 5+ years ago. What is this, a fishing competition with hooks and all? hehehe. Yes you are right at the most that have played EVE is the current peak. As it was true last year. And true the year before. Every year that statement has been true. Oh I get it, "EVE is dieing™ " k…. thanks for letting me know that… hehehe

Still, bottom line: CCP sets a good example of how to maintain good customer vs. developer relations. I think Anet could learn a thing or two by such an example, and wouldn’t have some of the current relation problems if so. Though I still give Anet some credit there, they are trying more than many other games that I’ve seen.

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

I’m trying to let you off the hook easy by saying it’s a good game,. but niche.

The entire number of people playin Eve right now at it’s maximum, after all these years, is under a sixth of the people who bought Guild Wars 2 accounts.

Niche? It’s one of the top 10 mmo’s on the market! It was “niche” 5+ years ago. What is this, a fishing competition with hooks and all? hehehe. Yes you are right at the most that have played EVE is the current peak. As it was true last year. And true the year before. Every year that statement has been true. Oh I get it, "EVE is dieing™ " k…. thanks for letting me know that… hehehe

Still, bottom line: CCP sets a good example of how to maintain good customer vs. developer relations. I think Anet could learn a thing or two by such an example, and wouldn’t have some of the current relation problems if so. Though I still give Anet some credit there, they are trying more than many other games that I’ve seen.

Yes, its niche, ultra niche, but their results speak louder than any Vayne out there.

What do you consider more succesful, <insert big car manufacturer and youll probably not miss> that actually loses 100-700 Euros for every car they sell or Ferrari.

Opposed to GW2/WoW/insert AAA MMO here that lose players by millions.

And its very funny how 500k subs for ultra niche game is considered bad when any AAA mainstream game, other than WoW, has less. But again, inexperience of poster of that shows and speakes louder than his words ever will.