Guild Wars 2

i dont see them focusing on all players at all. As xephire said earlier they focus on two players, those who like LS and those who like grind. The other kind of player, the ones who accept what is given go along. Now for those who like LS minigames and JP are pretty much included. Those who like grind ascended and legendaries and APs are perfect for them so this includes LS minigames and JP.

Theres a third kind of player that likes challenging content and so far that has included FoTM and Dungeons (dungeons are not that challening though). This category includes grinders but even they will eventually be bored. The only challenging content that has come out since release (well since FoTM) was SAB trib mode. That was fun and after finishing it it felt like a real accomplishment.

Now these are the players that are not rewarded well by Anet.

Example: Lets take plain joey who likes to do dungeons and challenge himself to soloing content like Arah. What is his reward for putting in the hours to solo lupi and to master dungeons. Ascended rings and backpiece (Fotm so not full ascended), and exotic-nolongerbis armor and weapons. And for soloing he gets a ton of reports from kittens on lfg site and tool who dont understand that selling is the only way for him to make any gold.

So fine if you enjoy doing a variety of things than this game is great for you. If you play the way you want this game is not.

Edit: forgot PvPers and WvWers, but Anet did as well so its fine

Vayne.8563:

Tom Gore.4035:

champ.7021:

Vayne.8563:

Funny my friends list is full of people who said 100% they’re not coming back. Most of them came back.

Odd thing that.

Yes it is odd that when Anet focuses on only one kind of player they lose part of the population and keep the other. Very odd indeed.

The problem is if they try to focus on every kind of player they aren’t actually focusing on any kind of player.

I agree with you. They’re not trying to focus at all. They’re trying to provide a variety of experiences for a variety of different types of players.

So the more styles of play you enjoy, the more you’re likely to enjoy the game. I do some of everything, thus I enjoy the game.

Those who focus just on dungeons, are probably not going to stay around forever. But they might come try new dungeons when they come out.

I think there are enough people in the middle for this to work.

It’s the same reason sandbox games are popular. Take any one “facet” of gameplay out of Saints Row or GTA as is and it’d be pretty bland – like if all you could do in those games was shooting people. Its way different when it’s just one out of a horde of things to do. If all you wanted to do was shoot people or have street races, there are games for that.

It’s not that we don’t believe you, but you know, to be credible sometimes it’s better to show evidence of what you say.
So

Vayne.8563:

If you were around then, you’d have seen thread after thread after thread about people with nothing to do at max level. It was almost a pandemic. Not just here but on other forums, like the one I moderated.

Can we have the links of those complaints on the forum that you moderated?

Vayne.8563:

Funny my friends list is full of people who said 100% they’re not coming back. Most of them came back.
Odd thing that.

Can you show us a screenshot of your friendlist?

This is mine (and no, I’ve not stopped to play in November)
Clearly not all of the guys in this list quitted at the time of the screenshot, something like 5% of them are still actively playing.

champ.7021:

Keep in mind its not just people who are mad at the grind and people who like the grind. Those two are in the minority. From what i have seen a majority of players in gw2 dont care what anet comes out with or the direction of the game they just want to play.

Thats true….until it starts to actually affect them. And it takes a bit to affect due to inertia.

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

With all this arguing about MMO X vs MMO Y I think we’re losing sight of the point that ArenaNet kittened off a whole bunch of people with this Ascended gear – both in principle (prefer skill-based vs gear-based) and in practice (don’t like grinding mats/crafting/whatever in order to prepare to have fun).

I can say that many players who get kittened off at one game go find another.

Yep. Many players. And many players have stayed. This has been my point all along.

No one knows how many people would have left if Anet stayed the course. It’s not possible to know.

In your mind you believe Anet is losing more players than they’re keeping. I don’t believe that’s true…and I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t either. A dev has told me concurrency numbers are on the rise and have been for some time.

I agree you were screwed over by the changes…but that doesn’t make them bad changes. They’re just changes that don’t work for people who share your sentiments.

I don’t know if they’re losing more than they’re gaining or not. I do know they lost me. So if anyone’s keeping track of numbers, they can add +1 to the tally.

I was getting away from that losing vs gaining argument, not adding to it. How ’bout we get back on topic?

Edit: And Vayne, stop putting words in my mouth. You do that virtually every time you quote someone. It’s no wonder people get on your case so much.

You said “many players get kittened off”..and while that’s no doubt true, if those players are a minority, then your point is moot.

What’s his point? I thought the extent of what he was saying was just that he and some other players were upset with the direction of the game.

It’s not just that some players are kittened off and it’s not about one post. The faction that is kittened off are saying (including Chuo) that this was a huge portion of the player base. It wasn’t just like her and a couple of friends. It was a lot of people.

Alright. But is that what he said right there? I could only gather from that post that he and other people are upset with the game.

What he said right there is no different than what he said in countless other threads. People are mad. We’ve known those people were mad since last November. They’ve been made since then…at a game they’re disappointed in.

The direction of the game changed…no one denies it. Ten months on and they’re still mad. They come to the forums of this game to complain about ascended gear..that was announced last November. You’d think by now they’d have figured out that the game has changed, it’s not for them, and they’d find a game that was.

Because saying OMFG there’s vertical progression in the game for ten months solves what? Is Anet going to stop and take it all out tomorrow?

I don’t like the vertical progression either. I’m not in complete disagreement with what’s being said. The only difference is, I’m not taking the inclusion of vertical progression as a personal attack. Anet saw a problem, Anet moved to fix the problem. I don’t agree it was the best solution by ten months on? I think people would have moved on by now, instead of hanging around to complain on a forum over a change that was announced so long ago.

Even I think the game is too grindy. So?

I come to laugh at how you try to tell theres no gear grind treadmill.

“Gear escalator”……priceless

I find it best comedy in quite a while.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

xephire.8324:

Anyway don’t show your support for ANET if you don’t like the direction they are going so they won’t make another WOW like game….

Yes this game is very much like WoW. I mean they both have swords and staffs. It must be a WoW clone.

Saying a game is like WoW doesn’t make a game like WoW. Just sayin’.

Ultimate defense….of EVERY WoW clone*….and they all failed.

Just sayin.

Oh, and losing 5 MILLION players is NOT successful.

The ONLY MMO that still gains players is EvE.

*except Rift, they pretty much advertised as WoW clone. Didnt help much either way.

First of all, comparing a themepark MMO to a sandbox MMO isn’t really convincing me of anything.

Oh look, niche Eve sandbox MMO has a growing population. They’re reached half a million players. Okay. Not really all that much for a theme park MMO, but certainly respectable for a sand box.

More to the point, how many of Eve’s players are casual? How easy is it to play Eve casually? You can just sort of log in, come back a couple of weeks later and log in again?

I don’t see how anyone can compare these two games…maybe individual aspects, but that’s not what you’re doing. You’re talking about success.

Secondly, the conclusions you’re extrapolating from information you have is flawed. Why did the games that mimic WoW fail? You’ve drawn a specific conclusion as if they’ve all failed for the same reason.

Many games failed because they were so buggy they were virtually unplayable (Vanguard/Warhammer). Others failed for other reasons. Some in fact, haven’t failed at all, they’ve just had limited success.

There’s a certain way of thinking that puts all your eggs in one basket. This game failed because of X, that game failed because of Y. There are very few games that fail for a single reason. Trying to show that you know the reason any of the games failed makes me question your entire premise.

Ahahahhahhahahaahah

Yes, obviously, its not “fooling” you. MMO is MMO. You can compare MMOs as much as you wish and its a FACT EvE is champion in that field.

Limited success? You call WoW that now? To me WoW was a success, sorry. But its long time now.

Saying you can compare an MMO that’s a sandbox to an MMO that’s at themepark is saying you can compare golf to basketball because they’re both sports. Sure it can be done, but the validity of doing so must be questioned.

No one ever said WoW wasn’t successful. However, WoW came out ages ago, over 8 years, in a completely different market. Even Blizzard was forced to scrap Titan because it wasn’t going to work. So where’s their next “big” MMO?

Every other MMO has met with limited success in comparison. You bring up a game with half a million subs, from a playerbase where most people have multiple accounts. How many people are actually playing Eve? Do you know?

Again. Limited success….rofl. Buzzword for unsuccessful. Im sure your “target audience” dig that.

Of course, basketball is more successful than golf. EASY rofl Not that it matters, but just for fun.

People in Blizzard are not fools, theyve taken Titan back to drawing board to TRY to make something that will work, yet another WoW clone wouldnt really cut it.

And how many active players WoW has? You are probably unaware how Blizzard counts “subs”, otherwise you wouldnt talk nonsense, at least SUBS in EvE are SUBS by definition.

Tell me the difference between WoW sub numbers and Eve Sub numbers, how are Eve ‘Subs" by definition, but WoW’s is not?

pay per hour is not a sub.

And thats Blizzards payment model in China. They lump it in with subs.

Tom Gore.4035:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

Tom Gore.4035:

EVE has 500k accounts. I would be surprised if it has even half as many players…

What does it matter? The way Blizzard counts “subs” they may have 1/2-1/3 players also. + all gold sellers, do we count them out too?

FACT is EvE is still growing and GW2 and WoW lost crapload of players.

Eve went into other markets they were not in before. Before they entered into other markets, they were not growing. Guild Wars 2 will grow as it enters into other markets as well.

GW2 already lost few times more players than EvE ever had.

GW2 FIRST have to actually get where it WAS at launch.

And EvE was growing still, before “entering new markets”….and afterwards. Its just that they hit 500k mark a bit sooner.

Of course, its slow but STEADY growth over 10 years.

Name another MMO that can claim the same.

It matters because once the players start to quit (which of course doesn’t happen until there is something else to offer the same kind of experience) the numbers will start falling rapidly. It’s not like the guy with 5 accounts will only suspend one of them when he quits.

there was multiple elses that “offered same kind of experience”. And EvE kept growing.

WoW and GW2 keep shrinking.

Vayne.8563:

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.

Some? Pretty much everyone returned, it was a protest quit, started out so. And really, many of those that “quit”, quit their alt accounts hehe. It was a message sent, and a message which in fact was received. Active accounts not only recovered, but surpassed the previous records.

But we are talking players that have been active for years, in a game that has increased it’s subscriber base consistently since launch ten years ago. GW2 is not old enough to be in that category, true loyalty has not been established yet. In fact I still have many players on my friends list that haven’t logged back into this game for over six months, and in a game that requires no subscription fee. I have new friends dropping out all the time, just unimpressed with the direction things have changed to. Oh and don’t get me started in on inactive guild lists.

IMO Anet is taking a huge gamble, and I can’t say they will be the better off for it in the long run. I have both games installed (I usually play 2 mmo’s), but I’m less certain how long GW2 will remain installed the way things have been going. I’ve never uninstalled the other, though I was part of that protest quit, respectively. Such a thing won’t work here, and I doubt I’d try if it could work, there in no built up loyalty either way, not to them and not to us, obviously. Went through the same thing with SWG, they wanted new/different players, reaching out to some other group of players they didn’t even have yet, invented the full-surprise NGE update and hemorrhaged accounts to never return. Many of use then found EVE, the obvious replacement, and CCP has been good to us.

Some people stopped and never went back and other people left because they felt the game later on had become a full time job. But more to the point, most players that start playing Eve don’t continue playing Eve. It really and truly is a niche game. It survives on subscriptions, not on numbers. If it didn’t have a monthly fee, it would be quite dead.

How many Eve players have more than one account, do you know? Do most players have two accounts? If not what percentage does.

There aren’t half a million people playing Eve, there are half a million subscribers, which is another matter entirely. And it’s still a game that’s a sandbox. Most of the content is made by the playerbase..rather than CCP.

There arent 7 million players playing WoW and there arent <insert number of players> playing GW2. Its SAME for every MMO. Just brought memory of guy doing 40 man raid…..by himself and all HIS accounts.

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

Erick Alastor.3917:

It’s not that we don’t believe you, but you know, to be credible sometimes it’s better to show evidence of what you say.
So

Vayne.8563:

If you were around then, you’d have seen thread after thread after thread about people with nothing to do at max level. It was almost a pandemic. Not just here but on other forums, like the one I moderated.

Can we have the links of those complaints on the forum that you moderated?

Vayne.8563:

Funny my friends list is full of people who said 100% they’re not coming back. Most of them came back.
Odd thing that.

Can you show us a screenshot of your friendlist?

This is mine (and no, I’ve not stopped to play in November)
Clearly not all of the guys in this list quitted at the time of the screenshot, something like 5% of them are still actively playing.

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.

Some? Pretty much everyone returned, it was a protest quit, started out so. And really, many of those that “quit”, quit their alt accounts hehe. It was a message sent, and a message which in fact was received. Active accounts not only recovered, but surpassed the previous records.

But we are talking players that have been active for years, in a game that has increased it’s subscriber base consistently since launch ten years ago. GW2 is not old enough to be in that category, true loyalty has not been established yet. In fact I still have many players on my friends list that haven’t logged back into this game for over six months, and in a game that requires no subscription fee. I have new friends dropping out all the time, just unimpressed with the direction things have changed to. Oh and don’t get me started in on inactive guild lists.

IMO Anet is taking a huge gamble, and I can’t say they will be the better off for it in the long run. I have both games installed (I usually play 2 mmo’s), but I’m less certain how long GW2 will remain installed the way things have been going. I’ve never uninstalled the other, though I was part of that protest quit, respectively. Such a thing won’t work here, and I doubt I’d try if it could work, there in no built up loyalty either way, not to them and not to us, obviously. Went through the same thing with SWG, they wanted new/different players, reaching out to some other group of players they didn’t even have yet, invented the full-surprise NGE update and hemorrhaged accounts to never return. Many of use then found EVE, the obvious replacement, and CCP has been good to us.

Some people stopped and never went back and other people left because they felt the game later on had become a full time job. But more to the point, most players that start playing Eve don’t continue playing Eve. It really and truly is a niche game. It survives on subscriptions, not on numbers. If it didn’t have a monthly fee, it would be quite dead.

How many Eve players have more than one account, do you know? Do most players have two accounts? If not what percentage does.

There aren’t half a million people playing Eve, there are half a million subscribers, which is another matter entirely. And it’s still a game that’s a sandbox. Most of the content is made by the playerbase..rather than CCP.

There arent 7 million players playing WoW and there arent <insert number of players> playing GW2. Its SAME for every MMO. Just brought memory of guy doing 40 man raid…..by himself and all HIS accounts.

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

If you want to believe Eve is the champ, go right ahead. You can believe anything you want. It doesn’t make it true, and it’s certainly not provable, but go ahead and believe it. I’m sure all the millions of Eve players will back you up.

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

Vayne.8563:

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

Is it better now? You have to run like a mindless drone jumping from temple to temple, chop some saplings, use epic crafting station and then what exactly? There’s no content so why did anet in its infinite wisdom give us gear grind without a meaningful content? Is that some kind of ultimate “innovation” of stupidity in design?

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve had people in my guild who played Eve completely and left over that debacle and didn’t return. Some of course did. But you insist I know nothing about something, because I don’t agree with you.

That’s like me saying you know nothing about Guild Wars 2 because you don’t agree with me. I didn’t say it, because I don’t think that way.

Some? Pretty much everyone returned, it was a protest quit, started out so. And really, many of those that “quit”, quit their alt accounts hehe. It was a message sent, and a message which in fact was received. Active accounts not only recovered, but surpassed the previous records.

But we are talking players that have been active for years, in a game that has increased it’s subscriber base consistently since launch ten years ago. GW2 is not old enough to be in that category, true loyalty has not been established yet. In fact I still have many players on my friends list that haven’t logged back into this game for over six months, and in a game that requires no subscription fee. I have new friends dropping out all the time, just unimpressed with the direction things have changed to. Oh and don’t get me started in on inactive guild lists.

IMO Anet is taking a huge gamble, and I can’t say they will be the better off for it in the long run. I have both games installed (I usually play 2 mmo’s), but I’m less certain how long GW2 will remain installed the way things have been going. I’ve never uninstalled the other, though I was part of that protest quit, respectively. Such a thing won’t work here, and I doubt I’d try if it could work, there in no built up loyalty either way, not to them and not to us, obviously. Went through the same thing with SWG, they wanted new/different players, reaching out to some other group of players they didn’t even have yet, invented the full-surprise NGE update and hemorrhaged accounts to never return. Many of use then found EVE, the obvious replacement, and CCP has been good to us.

Some people stopped and never went back and other people left because they felt the game later on had become a full time job. But more to the point, most players that start playing Eve don’t continue playing Eve. It really and truly is a niche game. It survives on subscriptions, not on numbers. If it didn’t have a monthly fee, it would be quite dead.

How many Eve players have more than one account, do you know? Do most players have two accounts? If not what percentage does.

There aren’t half a million people playing Eve, there are half a million subscribers, which is another matter entirely. And it’s still a game that’s a sandbox. Most of the content is made by the playerbase..rather than CCP.

There arent 7 million players playing WoW and there arent <insert number of players> playing GW2. Its SAME for every MMO. Just brought memory of guy doing 40 man raid…..by himself and all HIS accounts.

And it does not matter at ALL that EvE is a sandbox in this context. Of course, EvE being the champ doesnt suit you PR crap rofl

If you want to believe Eve is the champ, go right ahead. You can believe anything you want. It doesn’t make it true, and it’s certainly not provable, but go ahead and believe it. I’m sure all the millions of Eve players will back you up.

I dont have to believe anything, its a FACT.

Vayne.8563:

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

And this game was sold mainly to people who just cared about skins and not stats, but the crowd grew, a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon also due the peculiar release date and even though they didn’t like the idea of skin progression they bought the game.
When they finally realized that this game was not created for them, they stated whining and this is what we have now.
slow clap for the evil genius that made it possible.

Vayne.8563:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats and no content that requires higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

haviz.1340:

Vayne.8563:

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

Is it better now? You have to run like a mindless drone jumping from temple to temple, chop some saplings, use epic crafting station and then what exactly? There’s no content so why did anet in its infinite wisdom give us gear grind without a meaningful content? Is that some kind of ultimate “innovation” of stupidity in design?

The problem with stuff like this is to define meaningful content. People usually call dungeons or raids meaningful content. There’s a whole lot of people who consider dungeons and raids meaningless content, myself included. I don’t care for dungeons, I don’t care about dungeons. To me the content they’ve included is MORE meaningful than the content you want.

This is all about killing stuff on a screen and getting rewarded for it. At the end of the day, that’s all most MMOs are. So you like your killing in an instance, with all sorts of like tricks that make it “hard”., and I like my killing in the open world.

The difference is, I don’t go around posting about how your content is meaningless, while you claim my content is.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

For a guy who thought he knew what this game was about (and a guy who loves quoting devs), why don’t you quote the bits about Guild Wars 2 not having an end game? Oh I see, you conveniently forget to quote the stuff that proves you wrong. I get it.

The game was advertising as having no end game and devs said directly what you’d be doing at level cap is pretty much the same stuff you’d be doing while leveling.

I didn’t just prove my point. I proved you only listen to what the devs say when they don’t deliver on their “promises”. But you ignore their promises if it suits your convenience to do so.

We don’t have end game but we have a gear grind. How hard that must be for you to understand? Either implement both or none.

This thread has become really painful…I think if we’re going to wax philosophic about meaning in a video game, it’s probably time to close it.

All I know is whether or not I think it’s fun. If it’s fun, I’ll play it. If it isn’t, I won’t. If I feel like I’m being manipulated into logging on, I’m done.

I’ll play a game because I want to – and most certainly not because the studio is trying to make me feel like I need to.

You decide for yourself how you feel about that.

Next think you know will be time gating the time you log in and play and you have to pay to play for longer hours

Honestly, I think I’d rather just pay a sub, get a good game with an expansion or two a year, and go about playing it how I want to. You just can’t do that in GW2 at all without getting bored and feeling repetitive in short order. None of the content in GW2 really makes any sense…

There’s no real sense of accomplishment for getting tier gear…because why is it even there?

The dungeons are the same old same old. There were several temporary ones, but they’re gone, so yea…

Personal story is written at a 1st grade level…

Living Story is just more obsessive “go collect X every two weeks”.

I dunno. It’s wearing thin. I don’t like the GW2 model at all.

Any idea who designed personal story?He/she is doing a poor job

MikaHR.1978:

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats and no content that requires higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

Which is ironic because some players complain this game is turning into WoW when I am sad to say the problem is players refuse to play this game in a different way then they play WoW thats problem right there. Thats whats creating these issues right there. Ohh I have to have BiS at any costs and as quickly as possible even though the game tries really hard to ensure BiS is not needed any entirely optional just like cosmetic armor is. Why should I play in Lornar’s Pass, I make more money in Orr. Play Mini games? whats the point? Jumping puzzles? not enough reward based on effort required etc.. etc..

Let me ask you this… why are playing amasing around running dungeons, Orr event farming or champion trains? is it because its the only content the game offers? hmm nope definitely not the case. Its because people don’t care about the content they care about the rewards. So really what do you expect Arenanet to do if players are tying their hands up ? Would removing these rewards satisfy those players you’re speaking off yourself you think?

They did the best possible thing they could do. Give them the rewards they crave, make them take long to get to keep them happy for as long as possible by providing them a goal they can work towards and make these rewards entirely optional so that players who enjoy content rather then rewards would not have to give up the content they enjoy to get those rewards further more make sure that playing enough of any content will get you those rewards anyway in the long run. What could they possibly do thats better then what they did really?

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

For a guy who thought he knew what this game was about (and a guy who loves quoting devs), why don’t you quote the bits about Guild Wars 2 not having an end game? Oh I see, you conveniently forget to quote the stuff that proves you wrong. I get it.

The game was advertising as having no end game and devs said directly what you’d be doing at level cap is pretty much the same stuff you’d be doing while leveling.

I didn’t just prove my point. I proved you only listen to what the devs say when they don’t deliver on their “promises”. But you ignore their promises if it suits your convenience to do so.

Ahahahahahahhahahah

I didnt mentioned endgame YOU did, and you explained quite nicely how GW2 didnt and doesnt have and endgame, and that new tier of gear is still not an endgame and therefore people you mentioned that whined about endgame STILL dont have an endgame but your plain ignorance prevents you from admitting it.

Oh, and its YOU who keep repeating that developers say a lot of stuff and that its all BS and nothing they say matters tiny bit.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

For a guy who thought he knew what this game was about (and a guy who loves quoting devs), why don’t you quote the bits about Guild Wars 2 not having an end game? Oh I see, you conveniently forget to quote the stuff that proves you wrong. I get it.

The game was advertising as having no end game and devs said directly what you’d be doing at level cap is pretty much the same stuff you’d be doing while leveling.

I didn’t just prove my point. I proved you only listen to what the devs say when they don’t deliver on their “promises”. But you ignore their promises if it suits your convenience to do so.

Ahahahahahahhahahah

I didnt mentioned endgame YOU did, and you explained quite nicely how GW2 didnt and doesnt have and endgame, and that new tier of gear is still not an endgame and therefore people you mentioned that whined about endgame STILL dont have an endgame but your plain ignorance prevents you from admitting it.

Oh, and its YOU who keep repeating that developers say a lot of stuff and that its all BS and nothing they say matters tiny bit.

Did anyone every tell you laughing at people is rude? Just curious.

You contradict yourself with almost every post and then try to pin that on me. Having fun?

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

For a guy who thought he knew what this game was about (and a guy who loves quoting devs), why don’t you quote the bits about Guild Wars 2 not having an end game? Oh I see, you conveniently forget to quote the stuff that proves you wrong. I get it.

The game was advertising as having no end game and devs said directly what you’d be doing at level cap is pretty much the same stuff you’d be doing while leveling.

I didn’t just prove my point. I proved you only listen to what the devs say when they don’t deliver on their “promises”. But you ignore their promises if it suits your convenience to do so.

Ahahahahahahhahahah

I didnt mentioned endgame YOU did, and you explained quite nicely how GW2 didnt and doesnt have and endgame, and that new tier of gear is still not an endgame and therefore people you mentioned that whined about endgame STILL dont have an endgame but your plain ignorance prevents you from admitting it.

Oh, and its YOU who keep repeating that developers say a lot of stuff and that its all BS and nothing they say matters tiny bit.

Did anyone every tell you laughing at people is rude? Just curious.

You contradict yourself with almost every post and then try to pin that on me. Having fun?

He is only laughing he didn’t type(laughing at Vayne).Therefore he is not rude.

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats and no content that requires higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

Which is ironic because some players complain this game is turning into WoW when I am sad to say the problem is players refuse to play this game in a different way then they play WoW thats problem right there. Thats whats creating these issues right there. Ohh I have to have BiS at any costs and as quickly as possible even though the game tries really hard to ensure BiS is not needed any entirely optional just like cosmetic armor is. Why should I play in Lornar’s Pass, I make more money in Orr. Play Mini games? whats the point? Jumping puzzles? not enough reward based on effort required etc.. etc..

Let me ask you this… why are playing amasing around running dungeons, Orr event farming or champion trains? is it because its the only content the game offers? hmm nope definitely not the case. Its because people don’t care about the content they care about the rewards. So really what do you expect Arenanet to do if players are tying their hands up ? Would removing these rewards satisfy those players you’re speaking off yourself you think?

They did the best possible thing they could do. Give them the rewards they crave, make them take long to get to keep them happy for as long as possible by providing them a goal they can work towards and make these rewards entirely optional so that players who enjoy content rather then rewards would not have to give up the content they enjoy to get those rewards further more make sure that playing enough of any content will get you those rewards anyway in the long run. What could they possibly do thats better then what they did really?

Quite contrary, ANet tied their own hands up by caving in to small vocal whiney minority. Now that they started gear grind treadmill they have to deal with its consequences, and guess what – dealing with that same consequences is what gear grind treadmill games have been (unsuccessfully) dealing with since EQ. Furthermore, GW2 wasnt even designed for gear treadmill which will make it even worse.

And, one big big point: people who whined about no endgame STILL have no endgame, just new tier of gear for sake of new tier of gear.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

For a guy who thought he knew what this game was about (and a guy who loves quoting devs), why don’t you quote the bits about Guild Wars 2 not having an end game? Oh I see, you conveniently forget to quote the stuff that proves you wrong. I get it.

The game was advertising as having no end game and devs said directly what you’d be doing at level cap is pretty much the same stuff you’d be doing while leveling.

I didn’t just prove my point. I proved you only listen to what the devs say when they don’t deliver on their “promises”. But you ignore their promises if it suits your convenience to do so.

Ahahahahahahhahahah

I didnt mentioned endgame YOU did, and you explained quite nicely how GW2 didnt and doesnt have and endgame, and that new tier of gear is still not an endgame and therefore people you mentioned that whined about endgame STILL dont have an endgame but your plain ignorance prevents you from admitting it.

Oh, and its YOU who keep repeating that developers say a lot of stuff and that its all BS and nothing they say matters tiny bit.

Did anyone every tell you laughing at people is rude? Just curious.

You contradict yourself with almost every post and then try to pin that on me. Having fun?

Have any more pearls for us today?

Galen Grey.4709:

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

And this design so no longer valid. You have to do certain content if you want to acquire new gear. At launch you had four ways to get new shinies, now just one.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

For a guy who thought he knew what this game was about (and a guy who loves quoting devs), why don’t you quote the bits about Guild Wars 2 not having an end game? Oh I see, you conveniently forget to quote the stuff that proves you wrong. I get it.

The game was advertising as having no end game and devs said directly what you’d be doing at level cap is pretty much the same stuff you’d be doing while leveling.

I didn’t just prove my point. I proved you only listen to what the devs say when they don’t deliver on their “promises”. But you ignore their promises if it suits your convenience to do so.

Ahahahahahahhahahah

I didnt mentioned endgame YOU did, and you explained quite nicely how GW2 didnt and doesnt have and endgame, and that new tier of gear is still not an endgame and therefore people you mentioned that whined about endgame STILL dont have an endgame but your plain ignorance prevents you from admitting it.

Oh, and its YOU who keep repeating that developers say a lot of stuff and that its all BS and nothing they say matters tiny bit.

Did anyone every tell you laughing at people is rude? Just curious.

You contradict yourself with almost every post and then try to pin that on me. Having fun?

Have any more pearls for us today?

Oh and he spelled ever wrongly..

Vayne.8563:

Did anyone every tell you laughing at people is rude? Just curious.

It is rude but it’s also almost impossible not to when you’re in front of someone who has a 151 pages history of vehemently arguing in any thread showing any sort of criticism against anet. (what the f..? I don’t think anyone else in this whole thread has a comparable amount/omnipresence. Paid PR or you just don’t like this game as much as you pretend to and spend more time on forums than actually playing or doing other stuff in your life?)

I don’t think it’s possible to read the general discussion subsection for more than a week without developing a distaste for the One Man PR Army you represent.

Oh uhmm i don’t see any of my friends online at all i wonder where they get their concurrency figure from and all 5 of my guilds i join have only 1 or 2 active members left and they have 400-500 members need i show you any more screen shots?

Nikaido.3457:

It is rude but it’s also almost impossible not to when you’re in front of someone who has a 151 pages history of vehemently arguing in any thread showing any sort of criticism against anet. (what the f..? I don’t think anyone else in this whole thread has a comparable amount/omnipresence. Paid PR or you just don’t like this game as much as you pretend to and spend more time on forums than actually playing or doing other stuff in your life?)

I don’t think it’s possible to read the general discussion subsection for more than a week without developing a distaste for the One Man PR Army you represent.

+9001

haviz.1340:

Nikaido.3457:

It is rude but it’s also almost impossible not to when you’re in front of someone who has a 151 pages history of vehemently arguing in any thread showing any sort of criticism against anet. (what the f..? I don’t think anyone else in this whole thread has a comparable amount/omnipresence. Paid PR or you just don’t like this game as much as you pretend to and spend more time on forums than actually playing or doing other stuff in your life?)

I don’t think it’s possible to read the general discussion subsection for more than a week without developing a distaste for the One Man PR Army you represent.

+9001

Liked +10000000

xephire.8324:

Oh uhmm i don’t see any of my friends online at all i wonder where they get their concurrency figure from and all 5 of my guilds i join have only 1 or 2 active members left and they have 400-500 members need i show you any more screen shots?

The concurrency figure is probably from the launch.

inb4 you have no proof

Vayne.8563:

The problem with stuff like this is to define meaningful content…

Given that these “rewards” are “content” accessed by repeating what’s mostly year old content, I’d say the “meaning” is pretty circumstantial. If you’re not much a fan of repeating content and/or you already played through it at some point awhile ago, then these rewards are going to lack a lot of meaning.

I consider the LS updates to contain far more meaningful content than any of the pieces of loot they’ve added to the game combined.

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats and no content that requires higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

Which is ironic because some players complain this game is turning into WoW when I am sad to say the problem is players refuse to play this game in a different way then they play WoW thats problem right there. Thats whats creating these issues right there. Ohh I have to have BiS at any costs and as quickly as possible even though the game tries really hard to ensure BiS is not needed any entirely optional just like cosmetic armor is. Why should I play in Lornar’s Pass, I make more money in Orr. Play Mini games? whats the point? Jumping puzzles? not enough reward based on effort required etc.. etc..

Let me ask you this… why are playing amasing around running dungeons, Orr event farming or champion trains? is it because its the only content the game offers? hmm nope definitely not the case. Its because people don’t care about the content they care about the rewards. So really what do you expect Arenanet to do if players are tying their hands up ? Would removing these rewards satisfy those players you’re speaking off yourself you think?

They did the best possible thing they could do. Give them the rewards they crave, make them take long to get to keep them happy for as long as possible by providing them a goal they can work towards and make these rewards entirely optional so that players who enjoy content rather then rewards would not have to give up the content they enjoy to get those rewards further more make sure that playing enough of any content will get you those rewards anyway in the long run. What could they possibly do thats better then what they did really?

Quite contrary, ANet tied their own hands up by caving in to small vocal whiney minority. Now that they started gear grind treadmill they have to deal with its consequences, and guess what – dealing with that same consequences is what gear grind treadmill games have been (unsuccessfully) dealing with since EQ. Furthermore, GW2 wasnt even designed for gear treadmill which will make it even worse.

And, one big big point: people who whined about no endgame STILL have no endgame, just new tier of gear for sake of new tier of gear.

What proof do you have that this is a minority? All you can safely say is that they are a minority of people who post to forums (if that). But you can’t even know they’re a majority of people who lurk.

This is the kind of statement you’re prone to making. You call people minorities without a shred of evidence that they are a minority.

What proof do you have that 100% of your friends that said they are not coming back came back.

xephire.8324:

haviz.1340:

Nikaido.3457:

It is rude but it’s also almost impossible not to when you’re in front of someone who has a 151 pages history of vehemently arguing in any thread showing any sort of criticism against anet. (what the f..? I don’t think anyone else in this whole thread has a comparable amount/omnipresence. Paid PR or you just don’t like this game as much as you pretend to and spend more time on forums than actually playing or doing other stuff in your life?)

I don’t think it’s possible to read the general discussion subsection for more than a week without developing a distaste for the One Man PR Army you represent.

+9001

Liked +10000000

+ one more…151 pages of discussion derailment, lawyering, and quibbling. Does it for free, too. It’d be nice to just be able to have a discussion, comparison, and contrast of a few things around here without having to deal with that. Reminds me of my teenage nephew.

And yea, I’m tired enough of it that I’m actually starting to say things about it…

xephire.8324:

What proof do you have that 100% of your friends that said they are not coming back came back.

See I didn’t say 100% of my friends said they weren’t coming back. But I don’t need proof of something that happened TO ME. I’m relating MY experience.

Saying that any group is a majority is no longer talking for just you. You’re talking for everyone. You’re making a definitive statement.

Let’s say I said I once visited Florida, which I did. I don’t need to prove it, and I don’t care if you believe me.

But if I tell you most people who live in Michigan have visited Florida, I’d have to produce evidence because I’m making a statement which has no actual witnesses.

See you can say you don’t believe I visited Florida and that’s fine. But you’d have to call me an liar (which is also fine).

But you can’t call me a liar if I say that most people from Michigan have been to Florida, because I might well believe it. Still I’d need evidence to back it up.

Vayne.8563:

xephire.8324:

What proof do you have that 100% of your friends that said they are not coming back came back.

See I didn’t say 100% of my friends said they weren’t coming back. But I don’t need proof of something that happened TO ME. I’m relating MY experience.

Saying that any group is a majority is no longer talking for just you. You’re talking for everyone. You’re making a definitive statement.

Let’s say I said I once visited Florida, which I did. I don’t need to prove it, and I don’t care if you believe me.

But if I tell you most people who live in Michigan have visited Florida, I’d have to produce evidence because I’m making a statement which has no actual witnesses.

See you can say you don’t believe I visited Florida and that’s fine. But you’d have to call me an liar (which is also fine).

But you can’t call me a liar if I say that most people from Michigan have been to Florida, because I might well believe it. Still I’d need evidence to back it up.

:)

Chuo.4238:

xephire.8324:

haviz.1340:

Nikaido.3457:

It is rude but it’s also almost impossible not to when you’re in front of someone who has a 151 pages history of vehemently arguing in any thread showing any sort of criticism against anet. (what the f..? I don’t think anyone else in this whole thread has a comparable amount/omnipresence. Paid PR or you just don’t like this game as much as you pretend to and spend more time on forums than actually playing or doing other stuff in your life?)

I don’t think it’s possible to read the general discussion subsection for more than a week without developing a distaste for the One Man PR Army you represent.

+9001

Liked +10000000

+ one more…151 pages of discussion derailment, lawyering, and quibbling. Does it for free, too. It’d be nice to just be able to have a discussion, comparison, and contrast of a few things around here without having to deal with that. Reminds me of my teenage nephew.

And yea, I’m tired enough of it that I’m actually starting to say things about it…

See I’m in the same boat as you. I’m tired of seeing posts that talk about the game in absolute terms that are simple opinions of a group of people who may or may not be a vast minority. No one really knows. Oh they’re loud. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, but it doesn’t make them right.

You can complain about me all you like, but I’m not breaking rules by contradicting people who just want to bash a game they’re no longer playing or interested in.

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

xephire.8324:

haviz.1340:

Nikaido.3457:

It is rude but it’s also almost impossible not to when you’re in front of someone who has a 151 pages history of vehemently arguing in any thread showing any sort of criticism against anet. (what the f..? I don’t think anyone else in this whole thread has a comparable amount/omnipresence. Paid PR or you just don’t like this game as much as you pretend to and spend more time on forums than actually playing or doing other stuff in your life?)

I don’t think it’s possible to read the general discussion subsection for more than a week without developing a distaste for the One Man PR Army you represent.

+9001

Liked +10000000

+ one more…151 pages of discussion derailment, lawyering, and quibbling. Does it for free, too. It’d be nice to just be able to have a discussion, comparison, and contrast of a few things around here without having to deal with that. Reminds me of my teenage nephew.

And yea, I’m tired enough of it that I’m actually starting to say things about it…

See I’m in the same boat as you. I’m tired of seeing posts that talk about the game in absolute terms that are simple opinions of a group of people who may or may not be a vast minority. No one really knows. Oh they’re loud. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, but it doesn’t make them right.

You can complain about me all you like, but I’m not breaking rules by contradicting people who just want to bash a game they’re no longer playing or interested in.

If you’re tired of seeing those post why don’t you retire from reading them XD

xephire.8324:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

xephire.8324:

haviz.1340:

Nikaido.3457:

It is rude but it’s also almost impossible not to when you’re in front of someone who has a 151 pages history of vehemently arguing in any thread showing any sort of criticism against anet. (what the f..? I don’t think anyone else in this whole thread has a comparable amount/omnipresence. Paid PR or you just don’t like this game as much as you pretend to and spend more time on forums than actually playing or doing other stuff in your life?)

I don’t think it’s possible to read the general discussion subsection for more than a week without developing a distaste for the One Man PR Army you represent.

+9001

Liked +10000000

+ one more…151 pages of discussion derailment, lawyering, and quibbling. Does it for free, too. It’d be nice to just be able to have a discussion, comparison, and contrast of a few things around here without having to deal with that. Reminds me of my teenage nephew.

And yea, I’m tired enough of it that I’m actually starting to say things about it…

See I’m in the same boat as you. I’m tired of seeing posts that talk about the game in absolute terms that are simple opinions of a group of people who may or may not be a vast minority. No one really knows. Oh they’re loud. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, but it doesn’t make them right.

You can complain about me all you like, but I’m not breaking rules by contradicting people who just want to bash a game they’re no longer playing or interested in.

If you’re tired of seeing those post why don’t you retire from reading them XD

He was complaining about my posts, and that’s okay, but when I do the same it’s not. Your double standard is showing.

Vayne.8563:

xephire.8324:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

xephire.8324:

haviz.1340:

Nikaido.3457:

It is rude but it’s also almost impossible not to when you’re in front of someone who has a 151 pages history of vehemently arguing in any thread showing any sort of criticism against anet. (what the f..? I don’t think anyone else in this whole thread has a comparable amount/omnipresence. Paid PR or you just don’t like this game as much as you pretend to and spend more time on forums than actually playing or doing other stuff in your life?)

I don’t think it’s possible to read the general discussion subsection for more than a week without developing a distaste for the One Man PR Army you represent.

+9001

Liked +10000000

+ one more…151 pages of discussion derailment, lawyering, and quibbling. Does it for free, too. It’d be nice to just be able to have a discussion, comparison, and contrast of a few things around here without having to deal with that. Reminds me of my teenage nephew.

And yea, I’m tired enough of it that I’m actually starting to say things about it…

See I’m in the same boat as you. I’m tired of seeing posts that talk about the game in absolute terms that are simple opinions of a group of people who may or may not be a vast minority. No one really knows. Oh they’re loud. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, but it doesn’t make them right.

You can complain about me all you like, but I’m not breaking rules by contradicting people who just want to bash a game they’re no longer playing or interested in.

If you’re tired of seeing those post why don’t you retire from reading them XD

He was complaining about my posts, and that’s okay, but when I do the same it’s not. Your double standard is showing.

I’m not really sure whose double standard is showing

Vayne.8563:

Oh they’re loud. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, but it doesn’t make them right.

Not nearly as loud as one particular individual in this thread. Most of them will quit arguing in this subsect, just like all the others you have interacted with in your 152 pages of insanity.

You really shouldn’t bring up loudness because you are a true, massive army of loudspeakers all by yourself.

Who knows who are the minority or majority, but in terms of loudness, what you call loudness is the opinion of a truly diverse group of people who come to and leave this forum, while your loudness is a massive forum spam of epic proportions.

I’ll post a screenshot of my friendlist once prime time hits just like the others because a list of offline players speaks more than any words we could put in that thread.

Vayne.8563:

haviz.1340:

Vayne.8563:

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

Is it better now? You have to run like a mindless drone jumping from temple to temple, chop some saplings, use epic crafting station and then what exactly? There’s no content so why did anet in its infinite wisdom give us gear grind without a meaningful content? Is that some kind of ultimate “innovation” of stupidity in design?

The problem with stuff like this is to define meaningful content. People usually call dungeons or raids meaningful content. There’s a whole lot of people who consider dungeons and raids meaningless content, myself included. I don’t care for dungeons, I don’t care about dungeons. To me the content they’ve included is MORE meaningful than the content you want.

This is all about killing stuff on a screen and getting rewarded for it. At the end of the day, that’s all most MMOs are. So you like your killing in an instance, with all sorts of like tricks that make it “hard”., and I like my killing in the open world.

The difference is, I don’t go around posting about how your content is meaningless, while you claim my content is.

Frankly, doing both open world and dungeons is fun in it’s own right. I like a lot of the new open world content such as the invasions and scavenger hunts, but I also loved the dungeons (Molten Facility, Aetherblade Retreat). Especially since they have extremely hardcore but optional achievements.

Neither should have such a priority that the best loot only comes from one place. Fractals did that wrong, and currently Ascended is not part of dungeons. In other games, the best loot only drops from one raid. That’s not acceptable either. Open world should have the exact same stats for about the same level of difficulty.

Nikaido.3457:

Vayne.8563:

Oh they’re loud. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, but it doesn’t make them right.

Not nearly as loud as one particular individual in this thread. Most of them will quit arguing in this subsect, just like all the others you have interacted with in your 152 pages of insanity.

You really shouldn’t bring up loudness because you are a true, massive army of loudspeakers all by yourself.

Who knows who are the minority or majority, but in terms of loudness, what you call loudness is the opinion of a truly diverse group of people who come to and leave this forum, while your loudness is a massive forum spam of epic proportions.

I’ll post a screenshot of my friendlist once prime time hits just like the others because a list of offline players speaks more than any words we could put in that thread.

Sure, I’m one of the few voices supporting the game who haven’t left in annoyance at the negativity that has become rampant here. We don’t have hundreds of people complaining about the game constantly and loudly, we have a dozen. And yes, that means if most people aren’t replying to them, and I am, I’m loud. But I’m just calling BS BS, that’s all.

People who claim to have a majority when they don’t know should be challenged. I’m not sure why that should bother you.

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

MikaHR.1978:

So, now a year later…endgame is: same dungeon runs, same running around orr doing event chains, and addition of champ trains. And for what? Gear that noone needs for anything (apparently) BUT with addition that imbalances whole game even more (sans sPvP) because of higher stats and no content that requires higher stats.

Nice going Vayne, youve proven the point all by yourself.

That exactly the point. The game was designed from day 1 to let players play whatever they choose to play. Any zone is open to any player at max level, mini games, jumping puzzles, secret events, WvW, new content every 2 weeks, There is more content then anyone can possibly consume. Yet those same players complained that there was nothing to do other then run dungeons and do event chains because that was the most rewarding content and they refused to play anything but the most rewarding content.

Which is ironic because some players complain this game is turning into WoW when I am sad to say the problem is players refuse to play this game in a different way then they play WoW thats problem right there. Thats whats creating these issues right there. Ohh I have to have BiS at any costs and as quickly as possible even though the game tries really hard to ensure BiS is not needed any entirely optional just like cosmetic armor is. Why should I play in Lornar’s Pass, I make more money in Orr. Play Mini games? whats the point? Jumping puzzles? not enough reward based on effort required etc.. etc..

Let me ask you this… why are playing amasing around running dungeons, Orr event farming or champion trains? is it because its the only content the game offers? hmm nope definitely not the case. Its because people don’t care about the content they care about the rewards. So really what do you expect Arenanet to do if players are tying their hands up ? Would removing these rewards satisfy those players you’re speaking off yourself you think?

They did the best possible thing they could do. Give them the rewards they crave, make them take long to get to keep them happy for as long as possible by providing them a goal they can work towards and make these rewards entirely optional so that players who enjoy content rather then rewards would not have to give up the content they enjoy to get those rewards further more make sure that playing enough of any content will get you those rewards anyway in the long run. What could they possibly do thats better then what they did really?

Quite contrary, ANet tied their own hands up by caving in to small vocal whiney minority. Now that they started gear grind treadmill they have to deal with its consequences, and guess what – dealing with that same consequences is what gear grind treadmill games have been (unsuccessfully) dealing with since EQ. Furthermore, GW2 wasnt even designed for gear treadmill which will make it even worse.

And, one big big point: people who whined about no endgame STILL have no endgame, just new tier of gear for sake of new tier of gear.

So what you’re saying now is that a minority of players do dungeons, do champion trains and farm Orr Events? cause If so I would love to know where the majority of the players are because I have yet to see people complain that there are just too many people playing in mid – low level maps, doing jumping puzzles or playing mini games while the opposite is an extremely common topic that you yourself even mentioned in your post to Vayne. As much as you dont want it to be the case people who value rewards over content are the overwhelming majority not a vocal minority.