Holy Trinity Is Called "Holy" For A Reason
Yup.
Maybe they can use the future proceeds of GW2 to revitalize GW1. Finish Elona’s Guild Wars: Beyond and the Lunatic Court stories.
Still, even with all of the flaws of not having a true trinity in the game, GW2 is fun to play – I just don’t see GW2 ever being as successful as it could have been without some major, redefining overhaul. How will they accomplish that? Beyond me.
(edited by Moderator)
I didn’t know dungeons need a tank. #LearnNewThingsEveryDay
I dislike the trinity and very much like what anet has done to keep it out of their game. I like that I have options with each class. I’m glad that my guardian can be a DPS truck and a cleric (not that I would ever do that because why?) but I’m happy to have the option.
Playing how anyone wants is awesome. I’m sorry that without the trinity, however, you are not playing how you want. But trinity games are a dime a dozen, but there aren’t many like guild wars 2. And that’s nice.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
If only thieves could apply Blind and, if only Guild Wars 2 has evasion system they won’t die consistently – oh yeah maybe Stealth too.
If only thieves could apply Blind and, if only Guild Wars 2 has evasion system.
Oh yeah and this, hehe. +1000
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
If only thieves could apply Blind and, if only Guild Wars 2 has evasion system they won’t die consistently – oh yeah maybe Stealth too.
Sure, on 30/40/60 second CD’s, , and maybe two evasions every 20 seconds, and a stealth/blind for 6 initiative.
The lack of the holy trinity is keeping GW2 back. I really do love the story and theory of the other parts. But it’s hard to like a game where the combat is so bad, other than its extreme clunky-ness.
The truth of the matter is that Guild Wars 2 combat system is one note at the moment, with the pitiful mechanics currently implemented.
Why? First just look at the concept of ‘builds,’ and the status of being ‘support,’ in this game. Berzerker will always be the most efficient at killing bosses if you memorize dodging and evasion tactics (because that’s interesting, yeah…). Trying to prioritize healing has no value, neither does being tanky in a lot of instances, because the longer a fight continues, the more instances exist for errors to occur in which someone dies. (This actually bothers me especially with groups that just range everything)
Which means there is no such thing as being support, only making sure your class UTILITY matches the current encounter or need.
Not to mention the wacky agro tactics currently in the game, just look at Legendary Rampaging Ice Elemental in Dredge fractal. In addition to defiant, which is absurd.
I think fixing the AI of enemies, and changing the overall mechanics would improve the quality of play for everyone.
Is it called holy because it’s full of holes? Or are we supposed to worship it? I don’t understand. OP pls.
GW2’s trinity is a fun alternative, so either adapt to it or play one of the hundreds of HTrinity MMOs out there. If I had a problem with the fundamental basic of a game I wouldn’t play it.
Not saying its perfect, yeah, but it is what it is. Defiant/unshakable being completely overhauled and it would work alot better, because the Control aspect of GW2’s trinity is sorely lacking in boss fights and it would perhaps go a little way to rectifying this particular problem that some people have.
Is it called holy because it’s full of holes? Or are we supposed to worship it? I don’t understand. OP pls.
Yeah, every 4 hours.
GW2’s trinity is a fun alternative, so either adapt to it or play one of the hundreds of HTrinity MMOs out there. If I had a problem with the fundamental basic of a game I wouldn’t play it.
Not saying its perfect, yeah, but it is what it is. Defiant/unshakable being completely overhauled and it would work alot better, because the Control aspect of GW2’s trinity is sorely lacking in boss fights.
I have been playing Guild Wars since ‘08, I don’t want to see such potential go to waste. It’s just that this is really hindering its otherwise amazing performance.
It is called “Holy Trinity” for a reason, you need to worship her and follow her rules tight to works. It is a MMO religion, a faith.
To make it work, by the cost of freedom. Freedom to build your class, freedom to create better combat mechanics.
I am not a believer, and GW2 is not a religion, so NO, this game is a minority out there for non-believer, are you suggesting to rip away our freedom with your believe?
Cross
It is called “Holy Trinity” for a reason, you need to worship her and follow her rules tight to works. It is a MMO religion, a faith.
To make it work, by the cost of freedom. Freedom to build your class, freedom to create better combat mechanics.
I am not a believer, and GW2 is not a religion, so NO, this game is a minority out there for non-believer, are you suggesting to kitten away our freedom with your believe?
Cross
No, there is freedom in the trinity. You can specialize your dps as in condi/crit whatever you like. If anything theres less freedom with out it, as you have to take into account that you’re going to get hit, so you need toughness, that takes out of your damage, you have to heal yourself and others, so that takes out of other things you might want to build yourself into.
You have an opinion, but its wrong. Allow us to diversify ourselves within the trinity, rather than making everyone a tank/dps/healer.
This game doesn’t need the Holy Trinity. Forcing classes into specific roles is lame, and boring, and if they ever implement the holy trinity, I will quit this game.
I especially loathe healing classes. Playing whack-a-mole with red bars is boring, and allows bad players to stay bad instead of learn and adapt. The lack of a dedicated healing class and thus the trinity, makes the game far more interesting. Sure, the combat is not perfect, but it is far superior to the boring, 2-dimensional, and completely flat combat systems of World of Warcraft, and all games like it.
It’s not going to change. They committed to this course no matter how split people would be, gambling that this is how they’d carve their niche and because it’s probably the game they want to be making.
GW1 showed very early signs of wanting to break with the format of the trinity (no aggro grabbing/dropping skills, for example) and GW2 has elaborated on that. They want to blur the line between RPG style combat and action game, to up the pace and make the player more than a skill queuer.
The sooner you accept they’ll never go back the happier you’ll be.
I especially loathe healing classes. Playing whack-a-mole with red bars is boring, and allows bad players to stay bad instead of learn and adapt. The lack of a dedicated healing class and thus the trinity, makes the game far more interesting. Sure, the combat is not perfect, but it is far superior to the boring, 2-dimensional, and completely flat combat systems of World of Warcraft, and all games like it.
You’ve obviously never played a healer at endgame. It’s arguably one of the hardest of the three. The combat in WoW is much more fluid and moving than this, it is clunky to move, and ineffective.
A-Net wants everyone to work together, but personally I’d rather spend my three measly utility skills on saving my hide, (since I have to worry about that as theres no tanks or healers) than to waste one slot on others.
If only thieves could apply Blind and, if only Guild Wars 2 has evasion system they won’t die consistently – oh yeah maybe Stealth too.
Sure, on 30/40/60 second CD’s, , and maybe two evasions every 20 seconds, and a stealth/blind for 6 initiative.
You seem to be under the impression that those things aren’t enough. Also, far more evasions than that.
Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
It is called “Holy Trinity” for a reason, you need to worship her and follow her rules tight to works. It is a MMO religion, a faith.
To make it work, by the cost of freedom. Freedom to build your class, freedom to create better combat mechanics.
I am not a believer, and GW2 is not a religion, so NO, this game is a minority out there for non-believer, are you suggesting to kitten away our freedom with your believe?
Cross
No, there is freedom in the trinity. You can specialize your dps as in condi/crit whatever you like. If anything theres less freedom with out it, as you have to take into account that you’re going to get hit, so you need toughness, that takes out of your damage, you have to heal yourself and others, so that takes out of other things you might want to build yourself into.
You have an opinion, but its wrong. Allow us to diversify ourselves within the trinity, rather than making everyone a tank/dps/healer.
No freedom for class, a tank class is made for tanking, you create a tank class and all your party members expected YOU to be the tank. They expected YOU able to do the job otherwise you got a kick in your face. GW2 is one of the minority MMO that allow hybrid build and it works. In trinity either you go full heal, full tank or full dps, and most classes are usually expected to build a specific way. Hybrid classes usually a fail.
So where is freedom?
It is called “Holy Trinity” for a reason, you need to worship her and follow her rules tight to works. It is a MMO religion, a faith.
To make it work, by the cost of freedom. Freedom to build your class, freedom to create better combat mechanics.
I am not a believer, and GW2 is not a religion, so NO, this game is a minority out there for non-believer, are you suggesting to kitten away our freedom with your believe?
Cross
No, there is freedom in the trinity. You can specialize your dps as in condi/crit whatever you like. If anything theres less freedom with out it, as you have to take into account that you’re going to get hit, so you need toughness, that takes out of your damage, you have to heal yourself and others, so that takes out of other things you might want to build yourself into.
You have an opinion, but its wrong. Allow us to diversify ourselves within the trinity, rather than making everyone a tank/dps/healer.
Is it just me or does that sound nothing like freedom? All you’re really doing is filling predetermined roles. You get 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 dps. Where’s the freedom for everyone to go dps? Healer is generally one of the tougher roles to fill in a party, where’s the freedom for the guy stuck doing that? You’re going around circles here about diversifying yourself within the trinity, but it’s all semantics.
And no, if you don’t build for toughness or healing, you can still survive through mechanics and your heal. Your freedom isn’t taken away by being self sufficient.
I honestly wouldn’t start calling people’s opinions wrong before taking a hard look at your own.
TOTALLY DIFFERENT thread/discussion, sorry.
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger
When there are no roles other than being an anonymous DPS, the result is zerg, zerg, zerg or exploit so they can keep zerging, zerging, zerging.
I don’t think you guys have played other MMO’s, professions won’t be only a tank, or only a healer. Take Guardians, they could “spec” into tanking, or dmg. Doesn’t mean it’s like, “Guardian=Tank.” Hence the freedom.
If only thieves could apply Blind and, if only Guild Wars 2 has evasion system they won’t die consistently – oh yeah maybe Stealth too.
Sure, on 30/40/60 second CD’s, , and maybe two evasions every 20 seconds, and a stealth/blind for 6 initiative.
Shadow Shot is 4 initiative.
Withdraw is an evade with 15s cooldown.
Endurance regenerates at a speed that allows 1 dodge every 10 seconds.
The whole combat system would have to be redesigned if there was a Trinity. Big health pools, soaking damage, big targeted heals, much less damage avoidance … it isn’t going to happen. Don’t bother asking for it. Play something else. You might as well ask for the game theme to be reset in a galaxy far, far away.
If only thieves could apply Blind and, if only Guild Wars 2 has evasion system they won’t die consistently – oh yeah maybe Stealth too.
Sure, on 30/40/60 second CD’s, , and maybe two evasions every 20 seconds, and a stealth/blind for 6 initiative.
Shadow Shot is 4 initiative.
Withdraw is an evade with 15s cooldown.
Endurance regenerates at a speed that allows 1 dodge every 10 seconds.
Yes, that directs you towards a certain build. And withdraw is another one of those utilities (personally) that is useful, but there are other utilities that are much more mandatory.
Yes I did say 2 dodges every 20 seconds, 1 dodge every 10 seconds.
It works. I don’t mean to burst A-Net’s bubble with the whole, “ground shaking” idea of removing the trinity, but there’s a reason why every MMO uses it. It’s not as frustrating as every mob being uncontrollable; since, with no tank I guess that’s what A-Net wants. As a thief, it is very frustrating to have a boss turn around and one shot you in a split second. Everything PvE oriented is uncontrolled, and very badly structured.
This lack of holy trinity accounts for the reason why the endgame of GW2 is so bad. Raids for example are not feasible since it would be too hectic, and not very fun. Dungeons are the farthest you get, even then as a melee you’d be constantly hopping back to dodge a backswing, that you might as well re-roll Mesmer.
I don’t know about others, but while forming groups for dungeons there is always a need of a tank, A-Net will never officially take away the trinity anyways, guardians will always be there for tanking. As a thief, will always NOT tank.
With the holy trinity everything is controlled and theres no “WTF” unless it’s your fault because you didn’t move out of the bad. WoW’s endgame is very much so superior to GW2’s, and will forever be, unless some sort of trinity is occurring. And GW2 will always be inferior for this reason.
anet could have been much more creative with professions (see games like gw1 and coh), but they chose to go the cheap route and will continue to do so.
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
I don’t think you guys have played other MMO’s, professions won’t be only a tank, or only a healer. Take Guardians, they could “spec” into tanking, or dmg. Doesn’t mean it’s like, “Guardian=Tank.” Hence the freedom.
No it is not a game’s fault, it is players’ fault.
A class with tanking abilities are EXPECTED to be a tank by other party members, it is not that a tank class cannot spec into something not for tanking, but this trade off will greatly reduce the efficiency for tanking. While doing so is against your party members’ will and will be booted. So the freedom is non existence.
Ever tried a so called “off tank” class? while the class is not able to tank as good as pure tank also not able to do the best damage, it is no seat inside a dungeon party.
I’ve all classes in lv80, and most characters are made into hybrid with more or less party support skill. They are all fine in dungeon and never got booted.
It works. I don’t mean to burst A-Net’s bubble with the whole, “ground shaking” idea of removing the trinity, but there’s a reason why every MMO uses it. It’s not as frustrating as every mob being uncontrollable; since, with no tank I guess that’s what A-Net wants. As a thief, it is very frustrating to have a boss turn around and one shot you in a split second. Everything PvE oriented is uncontrolled, and very badly structured.
This lack of holy trinity accounts for the reason why the endgame of GW2 is so bad. Raids for example are not feasible since it would be too hectic, and not very fun. Dungeons are the farthest you get, even then as a melee you’d be constantly hopping back to dodge a backswing, that you might as well re-roll Mesmer.
I don’t know about others, but while forming groups for dungeons there is always a need of a tank, A-Net will never officially take away the trinity anyways, guardians will always be there for tanking. As a thief, will always NOT tank.
With the holy trinity everything is controlled and theres no “WTF” unless it’s your fault because you didn’t move out of the bad. WoW’s endgame is very much so superior to GW2’s, and will forever be, unless some sort of trinity is occurring. And GW2 will always be inferior for this reason.
The thing is they did not remove it comply even GW1 was much like how GW2 is in its class system its a soft 3 class system and all games are moving away from it even games like WoW have moved away from the super restricted 3 class system by letting ppl build into a different type of play.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
The only reason I have to agree with the OP is because of the current meta of dungeons. If anything ticks me off more than killing players after a round is over (in spvp) it has to be the “LOL BADDIE NO ZERK KICKPLZ KTHXBAI” attitude that has been adopted by so many dungeon runners.
It’s sad that it is legit to kick anyone wanting to run high toughness or high healing power. Hell the combo fields to stack might are overlapped by healing instead of both going off at once.
Honestly i’m going to have to stick with spvp as unbalanced as the condi meta is. It’s the only thing that is even remotely fun.
You have an opinion, but its wrong. Allow us to diversify ourselves within the trinity, rather than making everyone a tank/dps/healer.
Actually, all opinions are just that, opinions. They can neither be wrong nor right, because they’re subjective.
However, there are also facts, and the ones you offer, quoted below, are wrong.
“No, there is freedom in the trinity. You can specialize your dps as in condi/crit whatever you like.”
DPS is DPS, tank is tank, heal is heal — that’s the lack of freedom.
“If anything theres less freedom with out it, as you have to take into account that you’re going to get hit, so you need toughness, that takes out of your damage”
You are obviously out of touch with the zerk-or-leave dungeon meta.
“…you have to heal yourself and others, so that takes out of other things you might want to build yourself into.”
Speccing into healing power is a waste, so no, you can heal others without taking away from anything except choosing which heal skill you use.
The only reason I have to agree with the OP is because of the current meta of dungeons. If anything ticks me off more than killing players after a round is over (in spvp) it has to be the “LOL BADDIE NO ZERK KICKPLZ KTHXBAI” attitude that has been adopted by so many dungeon runners.
It’s sad that it is legit to kick anyone wanting to run high toughness or high healing power. Hell the combo fields to stack might are overlapped by healing instead of both going off at once.
Honestly i’m going to have to stick with spvp as unbalanced as the condi meta is. It’s the only thing that is even remotely fun.
Running high toughness or high healing holds the entire group back. The way the game is now, those stats are simply not needed if you can kill fast enough. And guess what? They WON’T be able to to kill fast enough if two, or even one, person decides to be a special snowflake.
People running some dungeon for the 100th time want to get in and get out as quickly as possible.
You have an opinion, but its wrong. Allow us to diversify ourselves within the trinity, rather than making everyone a tank/dps/healer.
Actually, all opinions are just that, opinions. They can neither be wrong nor right, because they’re subjective.
However, there are also facts, and the ones you offer, quoted below, are wrong.
“No, there is freedom in the trinity. You can specialize your dps as in condi/crit whatever you like.”
DPS is DPS, tank is tank, heal is heal — that’s the lack of freedom.
“If anything theres less freedom with out it, as you have to take into account that you’re going to get hit, so you need toughness, that takes out of your damage”
You are obviously out of touch with the zerk-or-leave dungeon meta.
“…you have to heal yourself and others, so that takes out of other things you might want to build yourself into.”
Speccing into healing power is a waste, so no, you can heal others without taking away from anything except choosing which heal skill you use.
So you’d rather play as anonymous DPS #2354 than as a role where you press something other than 1?
The only reason I have to agree with the OP is because of the current meta of dungeons. If anything ticks me off more than killing players after a round is over (in spvp) it has to be the “LOL BADDIE NO ZERK KICKPLZ KTHXBAI” attitude that has been adopted by so many dungeon runners.
It’s sad that it is legit to kick anyone wanting to run high toughness or high healing power. Hell the combo fields to stack might are overlapped by healing instead of both going off at once.
Honestly i’m going to have to stick with spvp as unbalanced as the condi meta is. It’s the only thing that is even remotely fun.
Running high toughness or high healing holds the entire group back. The way the game is now, those stats are simply not needed if you can kill fast enough. And guess what? They WON’T be able to to kill fast enough if two, or even one, person decides to be a special snowflake.
People running some dungeon for the 100th time want to get in and get out as quickly as possible.
And that is why I don’t like the current PvE dungeon design.
Thank you for restating what I’ve posted, even though no sign on any conclusion just conflict for conflict’s sake.
You have an opinion, but its wrong. Allow us to diversify ourselves within the trinity, rather than making everyone a tank/dps/healer.
Actually, all opinions are just that, opinions. They can neither be wrong nor right, because they’re subjective.
However, there are also facts, and the ones you offer, quoted below, are wrong.
“No, there is freedom in the trinity. You can specialize your dps as in condi/crit whatever you like.”
DPS is DPS, tank is tank, heal is heal — that’s the lack of freedom.
“If anything theres less freedom with out it, as you have to take into account that you’re going to get hit, so you need toughness, that takes out of your damage”
You are obviously out of touch with the zerk-or-leave dungeon meta.
“…you have to heal yourself and others, so that takes out of other things you might want to build yourself into.”
Speccing into healing power is a waste, so no, you can heal others without taking away from anything except choosing which heal skill you use.
So you’d rather play as anonymous DPS #2354 than as a role where you press something other than 1?
I’ve played healers in a multitude of games, and tanked in a couple. There’s nothing special about either. In GW2, I never play using only skill #1. I will be the first to say that GW2 is not perfect, but desire for heal/tank/dps play is rooted in a desire to recreate past experiences and a failure to fully embrace GW2’s quasi-active combat — coupled with ANet launching the game early and not fulfilling the vision they offered for dungeon play.
I thought I’d find something new to first post, but the things you said has been argued (and defeated) countless times. “Control” works wonders when done properly, and if that failed, there’s Evasion. Plus, constantly moving and evading and attacking is called “Active Combat” which I prefer than Holy Trinity (tank taunts/soaks damage, healer heals, dps well, they dps). If I wanted that type of gameplay, I wont be playing Gw2. If gw2 will adapt that game play, I will leave gw2 (and im sure many others too). Nothing new to see here, move along..
tl;dr: just NO to Holy Trinity.
Lv80 Thief |Mesmer |Necromancer|Ranger|Guardian|Warrior|Elementalist|Engineer
[Aeon of Wonder]
Maguuma Server
[Aeon of Wonder]
Maguuma Server
i miss the holy trinity its what always turns me back to outer mmo’s mainly wow and gw 2 is so shallow they cant make good end game content whit not having holy trinity they giving us open world raids whic are broken and zerg fast no FUN for me what so ever just cuz the game dont have tank and healer evryone is DPS DPS DPS and the funny thing is they gona punish zerk gear soon so they make the game more shallow or hard for some people longer time to kill boss whic 1 one shoot even wariors whit 40k hp i swear to god i got print screen somewhere maddnes doge or die dont kill it on time u die so so so so borring game mehanics !!!ilove gw 2 i wish there is somewhere chanse to bring it back somehow at least healer class
Rofl
Zerky parts are not meant to tank at all lol. But with the right gear even an ele can face tank through the dungeons. So please, you just have to learn to look beyond your Mentality of “zerk.ZERK!ZERK!!!”
Then you may see that this system works and is a lot more fun than the old way with tank/healer/dps
I don’t understand the mentality of people wanting to turn this game into another WoW clone.
If GW2 is “so bad” and “WoW’s endgame is very much so superior to GW2’s”, what are you even doing here? Play WoW or the numerous WoW clones. Its like not liking a orange for not being more like apple… If you want an apple, dont eat an orange.
This game was specifically advertised to deliver something other than the WoW clone box “have nothing new for months and years on end” expansions. Believe it or not there are a majority of players that do not come to these forums that may enjoy GW2 for it has promised to deliver, something different then the close minded reskined holy trinity.
There are plenty of holy trinity games out there for you. Not so many games that can offer the experience GW2 offers for many players. Say no to WoW cloning.
Director – Xunlai Heroic Service Agents [XHSA] | Yak’s Bend
http://xunlaiheroes.wix.com/xhsa
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(edited by Mireles Lore.5942)
Actually, when I first started hearing about Gw2 combat system, I though it was going to be a role switching system.
example: You still needed people for “tanking”, healing, etc, but rather than being stuck with that role, you could switch on the fly depending on the situation.
If the person healing suddenly got aggro, the healer would switch to a dps/“tank” role, while the person who was previously dpsing or tanking . would switch to a healing role.
(of course there are more roles than dps, tanking, and healing, but I’m just keeping it simple)
Not saying it should be like that, it’s just what I first thought when I heard about Gw2.
“Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me. -Scarlet”
I find it interesting that people seem to claim that GW2 has unsuccessful PvE content because it lacks the holy trinity, when in fact the overall problem is the encounters in the content and not the lack of the trinity.
People like to reference the holy trinity because that is what they are used to, but that is not the only way to make a fun and successful game. For instance, GW1 did not have a trinity. There are no such thing as tanks in GW1, as there is no hate mechanic to grab the attention of mobs. The only thing GW2 did differently from GW1, role wise, was take out the healer and give everyone the ability to survive without one.
In fact, in GW2, there actually CAN be a trinity without restructuring the entire combat system, all they need to do is redesign the encounters in group-oriented play. Because of the active-combat in GW2, things such as tanks and healers don’t exist and all people tend to do is DPS. We can make use of this fact and design a DPS trinity where people can fulfill different roles that can make significant impact in the dungeon.
If encounters were designed where there were different types of monsters who were weak to different types of damage, then a trinity could emerge. If we had monsters that had low amounts of armor, but high amounts of HP, then they would be weak to raw damage and strong to conditions, meaning you want to have raw DPS in your group. If there were monsters that had low HP but very high amounts of armor, then they would be weak to conditions but strong to raw DPS. If there were monsters that had high amounts of HP and high amounts of armor, but could have moments of vulnerability when they were CC’d, then that would encourage control specs and skills.
From adding those 3 types of enemies to encounters, a trinity of raw DPS, condition, and Control would emerge. The group could then add utilities for support where needed, such as blinds, reflects, condition removal, and buffs, but they wouldn’t be necessary. If mechanics were added to encounters that promoted the idea of splitting the group around the battle-field and prioritized movement, then we wouldn’t see people scrunch-together every encounter.
There ARE ways Anet can make PvE a more fulfilling experience with the mechanics they already have. It’s just a matter of when they get to it, if ever.
GW2 offers everything I’ve ever wanted in an MMO. No trinity an no emphasis on raids, everything else is icing on the cake.
Vile Necromancer||Defender of the Beastgate||Slayer of Moa’s
I agree that the holy trinity is great, and I also agree that GW2’s lack of that is exactly why we have stacking.
However, they’re not going to change something like that any time soon, or ever. I couldn’t imagine the kind of trouble it would take for them to add a holy trinity to the game at this point in it’s life.
In the nicest way possible, if you don’t like it you may want to go back to WoW. That’s not to be insulting, just that I don’t expect it to ever be changed, nor do I think that if it were everyone would enjoy it. Some of us, such as myself, actually enjoy not having to rely on other people for me to survive. I was after all always a healer in games with the holy trinity. And all healers have trust issues.
Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma
As a thief, it is very frustrating to have a boss turn around and one shot you in a split second.
I don’t know about others, but while forming groups for dungeons there is always a need of a tank
Dungeons are the farthest you get, even then as a melee you’d be constantly hopping back to dodge a backswing, that you might as well re-roll Mesmer.
OP, it sounds like you just don’t want to dodge, not a problem with the game.
theres no “WTF” unless it’s your fault because you didn’t move out of the bad
That’s exactly what’s happening, you aren’t moving out of the bad. The game gives you plenty of dodges and active defense to “move out of the bad” or negate it. There is no trinity tank or healer to keep you alive, you’re on your own, use your reflexes. I see this as a good feature.
Running high toughness or high healing holds the entire group back. The way the game is now, those stats are simply not needed if you can kill fast enough. And guess what? They WON’T be able to to kill fast enough if two, or even one, person decides to be a special snowflake.
That’s not really the case, if the zerkers are any good, they’re not going to die because there’s one or two tanky guys with low DPS.
Let’s say you multiplied all the monsters’ HP by 5×. The good zerkers still won’t die.
You don’t generally play zerker DPS by standing still and trading hits with the enemy, hoping to kill them before you die.
You try to dodge and position yourself intelligently or evade/block/reflect or use CC on enemies, so you do not get hit at all, and it doesn’t matter how long the fight lasts.
I agree that the holy trinity is great, and I also agree that GW2’s lack of that is exactly why we have stacking.
Stacking happens because the AI is dumb and runs to one spot if they can’t LOS the players.
So you’d rather play as anonymous DPS #2354 than as a role where you press something other than 1?
You horribly oversimplify the game if you think doing DPS is just mashing 1.
And yes, I only play DPS roles, I’d rather not have to depend on some tank or healer. I don’t miss the trinity at all.
(edited by voidwater.2064)
I miss healing, I can’t do it effectively here when its just a dps-meta and I can’t go back to WoW since its still p2p
I find it interesting that people seem to claim that GW2 has unsuccessful PvE content because it lacks the holy trinity, when in fact the overall problem is the encounters in the content and not the lack of the trinity.
People like to reference the holy trinity because that is what they are used to, but that is not the only way to make a fun and successful game. For instance, GW1 did not have a trinity. There are no such thing as tanks in GW1, as there is no hate mechanic to grab the attention of mobs. The only thing GW2 did differently from GW1, role wise, was take out the healer and give everyone the ability to survive without one.
In fact, in GW2, there actually CAN be a trinity without restructuring the entire combat system, all they need to do is redesign the encounters in group-oriented play. Because of the active-combat in GW2, things such as tanks and healers don’t exist and all people tend to do is DPS. We can make use of this fact and design a DPS trinity where people can fulfill different roles that can make significant impact in the dungeon.
If encounters were designed where there were different types of monsters who were weak to different types of damage, then a trinity could emerge. If we had monsters that had low amounts of armor, but high amounts of HP, then they would be weak to raw damage and strong to conditions, meaning you want to have raw DPS in your group. If there were monsters that had low HP but very high amounts of armor, then they would be weak to conditions but strong to raw DPS. If there were monsters that had high amounts of HP and high amounts of armor, but could have moments of vulnerability when they were CC’d, then that would encourage control specs and skills.
From adding those 3 types of enemies to encounters, a trinity of raw DPS, condition, and Control would emerge. The group could then add utilities for support where needed, such as blinds, reflects, condition removal, and buffs, but they wouldn’t be necessary. If mechanics were added to encounters that promoted the idea of splitting the group around the battle-field and prioritized movement, then we wouldn’t see people scrunch-together every encounter.
There ARE ways Anet can make PvE a more fulfilling experience with the mechanics they already have. It’s just a matter of when they get to it, if ever.
This is very well said.
Just suddenly pops up in my head. On top of your suggestion.
I think all instanced content could use a dynamic enemy encounter. It will calculate the whole party’s critical damage : condition damage : healing power ratio. Once inside the instance all party members are not allowed to change armor and trinket.
The bosses and trash will change type according to the above ratio, full zerker team will likely to face high toughness, low hp foes; while high condition damage team got low def high hp foes; while high healing power got more balanced foes. All the enemy should got a debuff while CCed which give more damage chances to the party.
This way party make up of different build diversity and bringing some control skill is more important.
Cross
I am Elementalist.
Since I embody all three aspects of the HTrinity within one being, it must hold true that I am a god. Since I am a god I demand your undying worship, tithes, gifts, tribute, reverence, adoration and devotion.
(you may leave offerings in my mailbox)
#elepocalypse
It works. I don’t mean to burst A-Net’s bubble with the whole, “ground shaking” idea of removing the trinity, but there’s a reason why every MMO uses it. It’s not as frustrating as every mob being uncontrollable; since, with no tank I guess that’s what A-Net wants. As a thief, it is very frustrating to have a boss turn around and one shot you in a split second. Everything PvE oriented is uncontrolled, and very badly structured.
This lack of holy trinity accounts for the reason why the endgame of GW2 is so bad. Raids for example are not feasible since it would be too hectic, and not very fun. Dungeons are the farthest you get, even then as a melee you’d be constantly hopping back to dodge a backswing, that you might as well re-roll Mesmer.
I don’t know about others, but while forming groups for dungeons there is always a need of a tank, A-Net will never officially take away the trinity anyways, guardians will always be there for tanking. As a thief, will always NOT tank.
With the holy trinity everything is controlled and theres no “WTF” unless it’s your fault because you didn’t move out of the bad. WoW’s endgame is very much so superior to GW2’s, and will forever be, unless some sort of trinity is occurring. And GW2 will always be inferior for this reason.
I find your definition of the holy trinity to be offensive.
Removing the trinity was the first step in the right direction, ArenaNet just lacked the imagination to make it happen.
Guild Wars 2 is not a sequel to the original Guild Wars but merely an alternative story setting.
Removing the trinity was the first step in the right direction, ArenaNet just lacked the imagination to make it happen.
Very well said.
PVE is stale not because GW2 lacks a trinity, but because the trinity was removed and nothing meaningful was added to compensate.