Guild Wars 2

I’ve notice there is a split between the player base. Some want the trinity style returned, others do not.

I think there could be a solution for both.

Already the game allows you to established “builds”. Why not allow the builds be the trinity?

You could build your character to be a healer, tank, or dps with any profession in the game.

Right now builds are not really viable for trinity play. Rather builds just focus on the specific character.

Either you go one extreme (full zerker) and mow through the mobs faster than they can bust you down, using dodge and evades to avoid the big hits, or you can go full tank (soldier) and simply wear your enemy down by out lasting them.

The way healing is set up, it is primarily self healing with some group healing. It’s also possible to add in healing with a power, precision or condition build.

I’d much rather see being able to build into being a healer who can focus on healing others as much as themselves. You know, beneficial skills that require you to target an ally (or yourself) and cast it on the target.

How about CC? Right now most bosses have perma buffs that severely hamper the point of CC builds. Why not make these buffs fall off and come on at key times. For example they fall off when the boss is about to perform a rather nasty move, so CC is required to prevent this nasty move.

You want it so that there are times when the party needs to stack and times when they have to separate. Failing to do so when the situation calls for it could mean a wipe.

The way I see it, it would be the best of both worlds.

-You get the added diversity that the trinity will bring (instead of all zerker everywhere).

-You don’t have to worry about, “healer needed” for an hour because they are in such short supply. Swap traits and put on your healing attribute gear and fill the role regardless of what your profession is.

-Boss fights can now become less of a “stack in the corner and press 1” and actually require the group to position and reposition. Sync their movements and the use of their skills with not only each other but with the boss too. Require that there be a tank, healer, dps, conditioner, and cc.

-You still maintain build diversity. As it stands, each profession usually only has 1 to 3 viable builds. With the above, each profession gets 5 useful builds. Tank, Healer, DPS, Conditioner, and CC. You can now mix and match the profession you enjoy playing with the role you enjoy filling.

Why not let the builds be trinity? Nobody wants trinity! Nobody wants to be waiting in LFG asking for a half spec healer type compromise build any more than they want to be waiting for a full trinity healer. That is not better than the status quo and never will be better than the status quo. If nobody needs a compromise healer, like now, then nobody will ask for one and the role is redundant anyway. You can go into the dungeon as a healer if you like right now. There’s nothing to stop you if you want to play with like minded people.

If a group needs more healing, CC, condition cures, finishers, mobility, etc then they can already change utilities and weapons to do that. Trinity is dead. RIP.

this was done in gw1... necros ran spirits, prot and healing builds, and out preformed the classes they were mimicking. which led to imbalance. the mechanic in place in gw2 does not permit such diversity. quite frankly, im glad trinity is not present in gw2, for the simple fact that trying to grind a monk to lvl 80 would be a quite the task. not to mention having to deal with under performing healers in high-skill content does not sound appealing.

@Deamham, they won’t do it because they’d not want to swallow their pride. They’d give in to the statement they made pre launch that they’re not your average MMO, but at the same time, MMO’s are not just being the WoW cookie cutter any more, unless you’re directly looking at the sub-par korean MMO market,

You’ve basically stated what Rift does. (Allows you to spec into any class type you like through skill allocation when you pick up/purchase ‘souls’)

Don’t understand people like Stooper that say no-one wants it.
You don’t speak for everyone, only for yourself. YOU don’t want it.

I’ve never seen the choice to pick a playstyle become a bad thing for any game so far, and I don’t think GW2 would topple if that became the norm.

The problem is that healing power and toughness don’t scale adequately enough to make them functionally equal to DPS in PvE.

Otherwise, you probably would see more folks running healers or tanks.

Stooperdale.3560:

Why not let the builds be trinity? Nobody wants trinity! Nobody wants to be waiting in LFG asking for a half spec healer type compromise build any more than they want to be waiting for a full trinity healer. That is not better than the status quo and never will be better than the status quo. If nobody needs a compromise healer, like now, then nobody will ask for one and the role is redundant anyway. You can go into the dungeon as a healer if you like right now. There’s nothing to stop you if you want to play with like minded people.

If a group needs more healing, CC, condition cures, finishers, mobility, etc then they can already change utilities and weapons to do that. Trinity is dead. RIP.

Really Stooper? No one wants it? I’d like something closer to the trinity. Why do you think there’s at least one pro-trinity post a week? It’s just incredibly naive and childish to think you speak for everyone. Lot’s of people like the trinity, not just a small percentage.

I do half of this already, to be honest, but I see some other very useful ideas, especially regarding CC.

The biggest problem to generating a “trinity” mechanic is the terrible, terrible aggro AI and control. Most times I get lucky enough to have my warrior hammer-tank in group events and dungeons, using his own banner heals as support for the group. (He’s gotten compliments for that, by the way.) But I can’t, for the life me of (literally?) shake a mob that’s hellbent on killing me, even if I reduce dps.

As it is, I’ve had a lot of fun proving people wrong that there aren’t healers and tanks in the game. Water-staff ele is fantastic support. Banner-warrior shrugs off what most people die from. I just can’t convince enemies to do what I want, seemingly ever. :\

The only consistent thing I’ve noticed is, if you really want a mob to hate you, go rez someone. They HATE that. And, honestly, rightfully so. :P

Split? Are you sure about that? I highly doubt its remotely even but then again there’s no real way of knowing for sure. I just find it amusing that you assume its split.

Stooperdale.3560:

Nobody wants trinity!

Nobody, eh? So why is WoW so insanely popular?

But you CAN build a tank or a healer as it is

The minority that wants the trinity has to realize this is not the place to ask for it.
This game was founded on the very idea that the trinity has no place here.
The majority of players who play GW2 do NOT want the trinity. This has been consistently proven in all threads where this topic was touched upon.

You have to realize that if this game changes that way there’s nothing really separating it from any other mainstream game out there.

Here’s a counter solution to your OP – why don’t you accept GW2 for what it is and if you can’t / won’t then you can still go and enjoy those trinity MMOs without trying to change this one into whatever you want it to be.

That’d be nice.

eye floater.7140:

Lot’s of people like the trinity, not just a small percentage.

I certainly support the option to have roles. I just don’t want them required.

As a long-time ranged dps in other games, the wait for a tank was beyond discouraging, and when those tanks do show up, half the time they were kitten tastic, only tanking so they can get the short queue.

My favorite characters in GW2 so far have been the high-defense support builds anyway, a spot that fits rather well in dungeon running.

Harper.4173:

Here’s a counter solution to your OP – why don’t you accept GW2 for what it is and if you can’t / won’t then you can still go and enjoy those trinity MMOs without trying to change this one into whatever you want it to be.

That philosophy won’t last long. ANet develops on the premise of a profit. If too many players have to just “accept the game for what it is” and accept the founding principles of Guild Wars 2, ANet loses money. I imagine they keep some regular tabs on gameplay activity, of course, but if their profit dwindles – and the trinity looks to be a saving grace – you can bet your bottom dollar that they will find a way to implement it.

Separation from the status quo is not always a good thing. Sometimes, it proves to be unprofitable and negligent of a consumer base’s demands. However, I imagine ANet goes through extensive lengths to see if they are on the right track.

That’s how people run a good business.

This game came out as a non-trinity game and it shall remain so. Even so, the amount of time to balance everything into a trinity style of gameplay would require the game to get a clean slate were they build every proffesion along with stats from the scratch not to mention the impact it would have on pvp and how it is built right now.

Trinity will never ever happen even though I wish the teamwork aspect of it would get more into the game. They only major teamwork right now is ressing downed people and mightstacking. But other than that, the game relies more on you doing a good job on your own rather than teamplayers helping you with regeneration, condi removal and such. Which is a little bit sad but it is a risky approach Anet has taken and I think they’ve done a good job doing so.

Stooperdale.3560:

Why not let the builds be trinity? Nobody wants trinity! Nobody wants to be waiting in LFG asking for a half spec healer type compromise build any more than they want to be waiting for a full trinity healer. That is not better than the status quo and never will be better than the status quo. If nobody needs a compromise healer, like now, then nobody will ask for one and the role is redundant anyway. You can go into the dungeon as a healer if you like right now. There’s nothing to stop you if you want to play with like minded people.

If a group needs more healing, CC, condition cures, finishers, mobility, etc then they can already change utilities and weapons to do that. Trinity is dead. RIP.

While agree that noone really wants to suffer through a LFG. I personally would rather wait for a monk than suffer through DPS only content. If/When Anet decides to make CC and support more viable options than DPS only meta I will hope for a trinity

Deamhan.9538:

How about CC? Right now most bosses have perma buffs that severely hamper the point of CC builds. Why not make these buffs fall off and come on at key times. For example they fall off when the boss is about to perform a rather nasty move, so CC is required to prevent this nasty move.

Personally, I feel if they:

• Remove a lot of the damage from Control skills
• Design control skills to reward skillful play (for example, if Dazed and Weakened, this stun lasts 100% longer, or If this skill Interrupts an attack, the stun lasts 100% longer)
• Give bosses stun-breakers (that is, design mobs to play under the same rules as players [10 skills]).

then Control would be more rewarding to play without worrying about stunlocking (since it wouldn’t really be viable because of the low damage output).

Deamhan.9538:

-You get the added diversity that the trinity will bring (instead of all zerker everywhere).

Deamhan.9538:

-Boss fights can now become less of a “stack in the corner and press 1” and actually require the group to position and reposition. Sync their movements and the use of their skills with not only each other but with the boss too. Require that there be a tank, healer, dps, conditioner, and cc.

I maintain that these are issues with encounter design with mechanics either being non-existent or not enforced enough, rather than the fact that there aren’t any fixed roles.

If you want proof that the current system could work, look no further than the Lover’s fight mechanics:

• Have awareness of your team; if they were keeping one busy, you needed to make sure that the other was away from them.
• You needed to bring control to stop them running towards each other.

Unfortunately, that particular fight suffers from a) not enforcing the mechanics enough and b) littering the place with boulders so players could KDlock them.

Ideally, with the current system, you want a variety of mechanics that encourage the player to look at their toolset and, if they fail. think ‘What could I bring that would give us a better chance?’.

A fixed, required role system (which is what we’d have, since content would be designed around the assumption that you have one of each role) would remove that depth, simply because encounters would require mechanics that encompassed all of the roles.

Deamhan.9538:

-You don’t have to worry about, “healer needed” for an hour because they are in such short supply. Swap traits and put on your healing attribute gear and fill the role regardless of what your profession is.

Except you may very well still get that case. Shortage of healers / tanks is caused by people not wanting to play that sort of role, not through the fact that people are bound to a particular role.

Case example; WoW. It has dual traits and gear management, and yet when I was playing as DPS (I didn’t always want to heal), I was still waiting anywhere between 1/2 hour and an hour.

I honestly don’t see the issue of not being able to play a dedicated healer. Before the game even went into beta, we knew that there’d be no dedicated healer, and, IMO, there aren’t many mechanics that can be tied around the Healer role other than ‘burst heal here’ and ‘buff’.

Keep in mind that I couldn’t care any less whether or not there is a trinity or isn’t one. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. I recommend to some to remove the blinders and open their eyes, the GW2 system has just as many flaws as the trinity system. A different set of flaws but just as many.

The point was to bring the best of both worlds together. As I said, a compromise.

Case example; WoW. It has dual traits and gear management, and yet when I was playing as DPS (I didn’t always want to heal), I was still waiting anywhere between 1/2 hour and an hour.

Yup WoW did do duel spec. Look at the Priest. You could be the healer or you could be dps. Very few, if any, could spec into all three though. However the biggest problem for the wait time didn’t come from game design. It came from player attitude. Party wiped, and who got the blame? Either the tank or the healer. People were so quick to dish out the abuse so nobody wanted to be on the receiving end. I’d simply say “tell, you what. Let’s switch roles, I’ll bring my dps and you bring your tank, and you can show me how it’s done”. For which one of three things would happen.

1. We switch and he does a great job. I bow out. Although this rarely happens.

2. We switch, we still wipe (tanks fault) so now he no better than I was. I get good satisfaction rubbing it in.

3. We don’t switch for which I say, “if you don’t want to, or simply can’t switch, you’re in no position say anything”.

Deamhan.9538:

Keep in mind that I couldn’t care any less whether or not there is a trinity or isn’t one. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. I recommend to some to remove the blinders and open their eyes, the GW2 system has just as many flaws as the trinity system. A different set of flaws but just as many.

The point was to bring the best of both worlds together. As I said, a compromise.

Except the main advantage of the Trinity and the main advantage of GW2 are sort of at odds:

• The advantage of the Trinity is that you have a solid base to design your content, since you know, 100%, that you’ll have a certain group comp. The disadvantage of this is the lack of depth it allows when designing encounters, since you have to work within them constraints.
• The advantage of GW2’s system is that it allows for encounters to be varied in terms of requirements, and not tied to a specific group composition (everyone brings a small bit of control vs one control-heavy and 4 damage dealers), thus allowing players the depth of choice without players being funneled into set roles (for the Lover’s fight, I swapped out the Power trait for the trait that Immobilises when applying Cripple) and drastically forcing them to change their playstyle. The disadvantage of this is that it’s harder to make this sort of content while not falling into the trap of requiring a set group composition.

Of course, this isn’t a full rundown of advantages and disadvantages, merely showing how the two main advantages are somewhat at odds with each other.

Deamhan.9538:

Yup WoW did do duel spec. Look at the Priest. You could be the healer or you could be dps. Very few, if any, could spec into all three though. However the biggest problem for the wait time didn’t come from game design. It came from player attitude.

I didn’t say that the fault was with design. In fact, I agree that it is the attitude of the player, but from the angle of ‘most don’t want to play Tank / Healer’.

Regardless whether it was game design, player attitude or player preference, there’s still the fact that the demand for less desirable roles (Tank / Healer) is high, while the players who play them roles are low in relation to Tank and Healer to DPS.

hannah mee.7925:

Harper.4173:

Here’s a counter solution to your OP – why don’t you accept GW2 for what it is and if you can’t / won’t then you can still go and enjoy those trinity MMOs without trying to change this one into whatever you want it to be.

That philosophy won’t last long. ANet develops on the premise of a profit. If too many players have to just “accept the game for what it is” and accept the founding principles of Guild Wars 2, ANet loses money. I imagine they keep some regular tabs on gameplay activity, of course, but if their profit dwindles – and the trinity looks to be a saving grace – you can bet your bottom dollar that they will find a way to implement it.

Separation from the status quo is not always a good thing. Sometimes, it proves to be unprofitable and negligent of a consumer base’s demands. However, I imagine ANet goes through extensive lengths to see if they are on the right track.

That’s how people run a good business.

Here’s what you’re missing :

1) A very small portion of the GW2 demographic actually want the trinity. Why would I assume that’s the case? Because GW2 doesn’t have it. And hasn’t had it for the past year since launch.

Even though a decent number of players who played the classical trinity MMO style game might have migrated to GW2 when it launched that initial population has gone down because they’ve either converted to a non-trinity system and no longer look for that in the game or have just simply given up, realized GW2 is not for them and left.

2) Guild Wars 2 runs an in-game store. Their profits don’t come as much from game sales as they come from gem purchases.
The active population in GW2 right now is in its majority against the trinity. If they weren’t common sense dictates that they’d have left in search of other games more appealing to what they need by now.

So WHY would Anet annoy and anger its majority of players by implementing something a minority want? So they can drive people away from the game ( and the gem store ) and drive profit away?
To do what? Please a handful of people who want the game to be different but are too stubborn to either accept it for what it is or find a game more suitable for them?

What makes you think GW2 would attract a lot of new players if it had a trinity? A LOT of games have one and chances are players that are playing those MMOs aren’t going to drop everything and start anew.

How much is that minority going to spend? More than the players that play this game because of what it is?

At launch you might have had a point – 1 year into this game’s life the population that’s here is here because of what GW2 is. Not because of what it’s hoping the game will become. The bandwagon of flavor of the year MMO players has come and gone – you’re too late.

Another issue with this sort of thread is that trinity-likers fool themselves into thinking they’re many because they spam and gather in these sort of threads while the majority of the community knows to stay clear from them as they’re generally filled with " I don’t like this make it how I want it" minded people.

If making this game a trinity game would have been the sound economic solution for GW2 I’m sure they would have done it. It’s not.

@Hidori you have to understand that what is boring for one player is where the game is at for another.

I like full melee zerker DPS builds. I can’t find any enjoyment in playing anything but those builds.
I like clearing fast, hitting hard and getting rewards. I dislike going slow or having to crawl through dungeons.

People farm for a variety of reasons – skins, legendary items, gem store items – etc.

I have FUN playing this game for profit. If you find it boring the problem is yours and subjective.

And this game DOES have roles. You’re just not realizing it because you’re so fixated on roles being " dps " or " something else".

A full zerker team has people doing different things :

Warriors will buff the party with banners and use warbanner to res if people go down.
Mesmers will use clones and illusions to confuse mobs into running around like silly. Or use reflects and portals to help the party traverse ground faster / do better.
Thieves will stealth up the party to allow people to get past difficult areas safely.
Guardians will pop reflects, aegis and other boons to keep the party going, alive, and operating at a good damage level.
Necros will provide soft CC ( that works on bosses) and apply condition damage.
Eles will buff the party, heal if necessary and toss down ele weapons in order to help the party achieve their goals ( see dungeons that require you destroying objects)

I could go on.

Do you see? All in the context of the dreaded " zerker gear" these different classes are doing different things that work together to create synergy.

A zerker party is not a party that doesn’t have roles.
The same way a PVT party doesn’t have more roles just because the players are wearing tanky gear.

Roles are dictated by class and class mechanics – gear dictates how much damage you want to deal and how much damage you want to soak up.

What gear you wear influences how much you need the game to hold your hand through encounters. A full knight’s warrior will take 2-3 hits where a full zerker one would be out.
He’s still a warrior. Just one that hits not as hard but isn’t hit as hard. How is this a different role?

hannah mee.7925:

Stooperdale.3560:

Nobody wants trinity!

Nobody, eh? So why is WoW so insanely popular?

Popularity of WoW has nothing to do with this…..
It is popular becouse it was most probably best MMORPG when it came and after all those years people have solid foundation there. Guilds, friends years old characters with so much memories that leaving it it is like to kill part of yourself it became part of their life so they just continue to play it and enjoy it even if the core of that game is old outdated style. If WoW would be released today it would never manage to get such popularity like it has now.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Deamhan.9538:

Keep in mind that I couldn’t care any less whether or not there is a trinity or isn’t one. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. I recommend to some to remove the blinders and open their eyes, the GW2 system has just as many flaws as the trinity system. A different set of flaws but just as many.

The point was to bring the best of both worlds together. As I said, a compromise.

Except the main advantage of the Trinity and the main advantage of GW2 are sort of at odds:

• The advantage of the Trinity is that you have a solid base to design your content, since you know, 100%, that you’ll have a certain group comp. The disadvantage of this is the lack of depth it allows when designing encounters, since you have to work within them constraints.
• The advantage of GW2’s system is that it allows for encounters to be varied in terms of requirements, and not tied to a specific group composition (everyone brings a small bit of control vs one control-heavy and 4 damage dealers), thus allowing players the depth of choice without players being funneled into set roles (for the Lover’s fight, I swapped out the Power trait for the trait that Immobilises when applying Cripple) and drastically forcing them to change their playstyle. The disadvantage of this is that it’s harder to make this sort of content while not falling into the trap of requiring a set group composition.

That is indeed true under the typical circumstance. However, by allowing every profession to spec into any of the five roles and have the ability to re-spec whenever, they don’t have to worry about designing content that has to be trinity specific. There is no constant. If they design something for which a tank isn’t needed, or ranged dps is the only thing that’ll work, then they can do so without excluding any of the player base. They won’t exclude any of the professions. That’s the advantage of allowing all professions to spec into any role instead of just one or two. Also, now that I think about it, there is more than just a trinity going on here.

Tank, heal, cc, conditioner, and dps.

That’s five roles, not just three.

Hidori.3472:

My argument: (TL;DR)
(pve in mind)
Trinity or not, this game lacks utilization of the classes’ different abilities and the mechanics to generate a need for different builds and classes.
cc and conditions are useless. the only thing what counts is DPS.

This is actually sums up why I created this thread…

Deamhan.9538:

That is indeed true under the typical circumstance.

However, by allowing every profession to spec into any of the five roles and have the ability to re-spec whenever, they don’t have to worry about designing content that has to be trinity specific.

There is no constant. If they design something for which a tank isn’t needed, or ranged dps is the only thing that’ll work, then they can do so without excluding any of the player base. They won’t exclude any of the professions. That’s the advantage of allowing all professions to spec into any role instead of just one or two. Also, now that I think about it, there is more than just a trinity going on here.

Tank, heal, cc, conditioner, and dps.

That’s five roles, not just three.

Eh, I’m using ‘Trinity’ as a general term, but you’re right.

However, once you start naming roles, and designing content around them roles, that’s when the roles become required.

It doesn’t matter whether a person can spec into them roles on the fly, since it doesn’t change the fact that that role is now required, as in, a person is forced into that particular role, and potentially outside their preferred playstyle, in order to complete the content.

Rather than thinking of Control, Support and Damage (which is what all of them can be broken down into) as roles, think of them as themes around content can be designed.

Using the basic mechanic of The Lover’s fight as an example (keeping them apart), players can approach this in a number of ways:

• Two Control-Heavy, 2 Heavy Damage split up and One Support Oriented bouncing between the two. The aim here is total control over the situation with little risk.
• 1 Tanky, Control-Heavy on the one, 4 High Damage with a small amount of control between them on the other. The aim here is that the tanky player keeps the one pinned down, while the others deal with the other as fast as possible.
• 5 High Damage with a medium amount of control between them. The aim here is to deal burst damage in between keeping them separated.

This is where the ‘depth of choice’ comes into it. The basic theme is ‘control is needed to kill them’ but it allows players to choose how they approach the fight and how to tweak their build without forcing them to drastically change their playstyle.

The party system thing is already volatile with the stupid mentality of :

“WE NEED A GUARDIAN OR WE CANT DO THIS!”
or
“NO RANGERS IN OUR PARTY BECAUSE THEY’RE BAD!”
or
“I SHOULD KICK YOU FROM THE GROUP FOR NOT HAVING A STAFF EQUIPPED!”

The trinity would only make it worse. There is no reason whatsoever for a 5-man party to be made a specific way or having players forced to play a certain way. If you really want to sit around town and wait all day for a healer or a tank… go play those games. I’ll stick to GW2 where I can just grab any 4 and go.

Just because some are not able to play anything other than the stupid ‘meta’ does not mean we should suffer from their incompetence.

I know you’re presenting an example but the lovers? I solo AC story on my ranger. The girl is weaker and my tank pet can keep her busy while my Condition Bunker Regen (CBR) built ranger deals with the guy. I actually treat it as a race between me and my pet lol.

Deamhan.9538:

I know you’re presenting an example but the lovers? I solo AC story on my ranger. The girl is weaker and my tank pet can keep her busy while my Condition Bunker Regen (CBR) built ranger deals with the guy. I actually treat it as a race between me and my pet lol.

That’s because the core mechanic of that fight (them trying to get close) isn’t enforced enough for people to have to pay attention to it.

If that mechanic come into play more often (say, X amount of condition / % health / x players attacking at the same time) and the effects ramped up / additional effects added (more healing, more defense ect), how do you think you’d fare?

The trinity can only work if the aggro system supports if. If they tank can’t guarantee to hold aggro, the trinity doesn’t really exist. There’s no such mechanic in this game. Adding it to the game would be one of the few things Anet could do that would make me leave the game.

This is a terrible idea. There are dozens of games with the trinity. Why should the one game without it change to kowtow those that want it?

The people clamoring for a trinity are the people who played tanks and healers. In a trinity system, they got instant queues and the ability to drop any group that didn’t kowtow to their demands.

Of course, that also meant that the trinity is downright awful for DPS. You’d have agonizingly-long queues to do anything. If you did manage to make it into a dungeon, you would occasionally run into tanks or healers who would threaten to quit (and stall/break up the group waiting for a replacement) if you didn’t give up loot.

You were particularly screwed if you chose the incorrect class/profession – one which could only DPS.

There is no tangible split at all.

There is some very loud crying from a small segment of the forum denizens wanting a trinity. The much larger majority want Arena.net to be able to keep their original promises because they’ve already had to compromise on many of them as it is.

If you want a holy trinity… PLAY SOMETHING ELSE and leave this game alone.

Stooperdale.3560:

Why not let the builds be trinity? Nobody wants trinity! Nobody wants to be waiting in LFG asking for a half spec healer type compromise build any more than they want to be waiting for a full trinity healer. That is not better than the status quo and never will be better than the status quo. If nobody needs a compromise healer, like now, then nobody will ask for one and the role is redundant anyway. You can go into the dungeon as a healer if you like right now. There’s nothing to stop you if you want to play with like minded people.

If a group needs more healing, CC, condition cures, finishers, mobility, etc then they can already change utilities and weapons to do that. Trinity is dead. RIP.

Odd, Since many people wait in LFG now without a trinity.

Also the dungeon system as a whole as well as LFG is VERY VERY quiet as of late.

Something has turned people off to both and while I have my opinions on why it’s been dead – we will save that for another post.

eye floater.7140:

Stooperdale.3560:

Why not let the builds be trinity? Nobody wants trinity! Nobody wants to be waiting in LFG asking for a half spec healer type compromise build any more than they want to be waiting for a full trinity healer. That is not better than the status quo and never will be better than the status quo. If nobody needs a compromise healer, like now, then nobody will ask for one and the role is redundant anyway. You can go into the dungeon as a healer if you like right now. There’s nothing to stop you if you want to play with like minded people.

If a group needs more healing, CC, condition cures, finishers, mobility, etc then they can already change utilities and weapons to do that. Trinity is dead. RIP.

Really Stooper? No one wants it? I’d like something closer to the trinity. Why do you think there’s at least one pro-trinity post a week? It’s just incredibly naive and childish to think you speak for everyone. Lot’s of people like the trinity, not just a small percentage.

Then those “lot’s of people” should play another game designed around the trinity. GW was never advertised as that game and should never turn into that. Don’t come to this game and try to change the entire concept of it because a few people want the trinity. You have EVERY OTHER MMO to play if that’s what you want.

NO Trinity….stop with this topic please.GW2 was not supposed to have trinity from vary begining and players like it.Only minority of players that come here from WOW wants trinity but that will never happen.Trinity sux

Just because a few people in the forums are making a lot of noise doesn’t mean that there is widespread support for a trinity.

Even in WoW most people don’t want to play tanks or healers. Most of them wouldn’t bother with Dungeons or Raids either if they didn’t need the gear, and there’d be even fewer tanks and healers then.

Dungeons are a sideshow in GW2. They get fewer players than open works events. Southsun Survival is more popular than any dungeon. We don’t need classes designed around unpopular outdated 5-man instances.

If you guys think that the percentage of people who want the trinity in this game is even close to 50% you are going to be disappointed. GW2 has set a model that most MMO’s in the future are going to latch onto when it comes to no trinity, Everquest Next being one of them.

Are the same people who are against any role mechanics or soft trinity the same people who qq’ed until the zerker gear nerf was a reality?

If so the irony is monumental.

Deamhan.9538:

I’ve notice there is a split between the player base. Some want the trinity style returned, others do not.

• NO, there’s no split, only the majority VS the minority, the majority being the ones that do NOT want that kitten restrictive system in gw2.

• if you miss the trinity so much there are a million and one other games you could be playing instead of gw2, so why do you keep trying to change one of the few games out there that does NOT use that kitten system into the one millionth and two ?

• You’re still playing gw2 so there is obviously something that you like a lot about this game and you probably wish some other trinity based game had, to bad but, I don’t want that system in gw2 and many others think along these lines as well.

everything after that 1st line I just tuned it out, it was all yada yada trinity yada yada whine to me

With the new trait changes you will be able to build yourself a healer type build just go have a look at the video about the april 15th trait and glyph and rune changes. I think the main concern here is that people don’t want to wait for hours to get into a dungeon and having a full blown trinity will cause that.

I’m going to be honest, I liked playing Tank/Healer in other MMO’s, or at least having it as an option. That said, I don’t want the trinity in this game.

This game has one of the better combat systems I’ve played in any MMO. Let’s be honest, mobs reacting to a big heavily armored warrior taunting them and just magically ignoring that guy who’s healing everyone isn’t realistic.

Sure, some mobs would be stupid like that, but a lot of the tougher enemies in games should be at least smart enough to think beyond a blood lust/battle-rage. And this is where GW2 shines, rather than tank the enemy GW2 combat should be all about CONTROLLING the enemies movement.

Just my opinion, but I think ANet needs to focus on making the game fun again. Less focus on the dps-race etc. and more focus on “Holy **** this boss is big, he’s scary, and he’s hard to kill. What is there in this room/area that we can use to help get an advantage?”

Mechanics ANet, you need to let us use them, and use them effectively. If you want us to kill some giant golem gone crazy in a mining tunnel, and there’s some big bombs that can only be set off manually, suddenly hard to kill characters have a role again without being tanks.

Wrong post woops.

You should also consider that GW2 is still young.
We just have to give it more time.

Even GW1 suffered from serious power creep and skills that were impractical for any use. A lot of imbalanced builds, gimmick, etc. which were nerfed the kitten out of them…
GW1 had alot of rebalancing patches, and it took quite long time, before all skills were balanced…

Monks in GW1 never got viable way to utilize their Smiting Prayers stat in PvP or PvE, even the only skill that made them viable (More like ridiculously powerful than any other monk build in PvP) was “Smiter’s Boon”, which’ PvP split was nerfed the kitten and life out of…
In PvE, Smiter’s Boon is still the most viable skill in Smiting Prayers…

Azreell.1568:

Stooperdale.3560:

Why not let the builds be trinity? Nobody wants trinity! Nobody wants to be waiting in LFG asking for a half spec healer type compromise build any more than they want to be waiting for a full trinity healer. That is not better than the status quo and never will be better than the status quo. If nobody needs a compromise healer, like now, then nobody will ask for one and the role is redundant anyway. You can go into the dungeon as a healer if you like right now. There’s nothing to stop you if you want to play with like minded people.

If a group needs more healing, CC, condition cures, finishers, mobility, etc then they can already change utilities and weapons to do that. Trinity is dead. RIP.

Odd, Since many people wait in LFG now without a trinity.

Also the dungeon system as a whole as well as LFG is VERY VERY quiet as of late.

Something has turned people off to both and while I have my opinions on why it’s been dead – we will save that for another post.

I haven’t noticed this on the NA servers – there doesn’t seem to be a lack of people doing content but if you feel that’s the case and that people have stopped doing it i’m going to give you the most likely reason why it’s happening.

Stale content.

You can only do the same content that many times before you don’t want to do it again. It doesn’t matter if it’s challenging ( see Arah) or easy ( see cof P1) people will stop doing the same thing over and over again unless they’re farming it.

And even if you’re farming you’re going to want to stop after a while.

How many times can you go through the same area and do the same thing before you want to do something else? Hundreds?
I’ve done hundreds of runs of you name it and honestly I don’t feel like going back there since I don’t need to get that gold ( which due to inflation is becoming less rewarding than when the patch that implemented it came up).

Also – notice the fate of this thread – since people have started posting “no trinity” and the such the original trinity supporters have gone away. They will abandon thread and make a new one in a few days.

I’m glad that there is no trinity and I hope this will persist. If you want your trinity just play another game and stop trying to ruin GW2 for all of us who have no problem with status quo. There are plenty of other games out there.

Deamhan.9538:

Already the game allows you to established “builds”. Why not allow the builds be the trinity?

By definition this would not be a compromise.

Also, remember dungeons, world events and bosses are balanced around specific game mechanics, introducing radically different mechanics would potentially introduce game breaking issues, or a massive redesign of every single dungeon and world boss.

Hmm, GW2 is great but everyone I know that plays/played it would prefer a trinity (it’s about 8 people, don’t get carried away). Or even a duity would be nice. Okay, anything beyond this oneity would be somewhat more interesting than five guys with different coloured helmets.

Having said that, we’ve been frustrating DPS for decades. With the exception of the one or two guys in your guild that rocked the meters DPS was always the low-status role. So it’s good that DPS have a playground here, they’re not just Top-Dog, they are the only dog in a one dog race. I can sympathise with the sensitivity around the issue.

I don’t have any solutions, patching in a trinity would be an absurd gamble for ANet; I’d take the Mystic Forge’s odds of success over that. As long as five mediocre zerkers with no support must be a viable comp there is nothing that can be done.

The good thing about the Oneity is it means I can solo 5-mans so, you know what, I don’t mind either way.

I might just have the perfect solution for this trinity thing, back to WoW

I do not want trinity. I’ve played enough trinity – as in ALL of them have trinity. It’s refreshing to be pushed to a higher level where you aren’t pigeon-holed into a specific role. I like that some classes can be better than others at certain things but overall we can do more with what we’ve got than be expected to do less.

Harper.4173:

hannah mee.7925:

Harper.4173:

Here’s a counter solution to your OP – why don’t you accept GW2 for what it is and if you can’t / won’t then you can still go and enjoy those trinity MMOs without trying to change this one into whatever you want it to be.

That philosophy won’t last long. ANet develops on the premise of a profit. If too many players have to just “accept the game for what it is” and accept the founding principles of Guild Wars 2, ANet loses money. I imagine they keep some regular tabs on gameplay activity, of course, but if their profit dwindles – and the trinity looks to be a saving grace – you can bet your bottom dollar that they will find a way to implement it.

Separation from the status quo is not always a good thing. Sometimes, it proves to be unprofitable and negligent of a consumer base’s demands. However, I imagine ANet goes through extensive lengths to see if they are on the right track.

That’s how people run a good business.

Here’s what you’re missing :

1) A very small portion of the GW2 demographic actually want the trinity. Why would I assume that’s the case? Because GW2 doesn’t have it. And hasn’t had it for the past year since launch.

2) Guild Wars 2 runs an in-game store. Their profits don’t come as much from game sales as they come from gem purchases.

So WHY would Anet annoy and anger its majority of players by implementing something a minority want? So they can drive people away from the game ( and the gem store ) and drive profit away?

Again with logical fallacies:

1. A majority of players on Guild Wars 2 does not equate to a majority of a target audience. What these numbers are, I do not know, but I imagine ANet knows and pays close attention.

2. In-game sales won’t happen if people aren’t purchasing and playing the game. Causality and that kitten.

3. Annoy a majority of players that are currently playing, gain a sizable new amount of players. If two players joined for every player that left, that would still be profit.

ANet has done well in the past with marketing and public relations, at least in the essence of targeting their specific audience. Guild Wars got revitalized with the Guild Wars Trilogy sales shortly after Nightfall’s release and EotN was advertised really well to incite returning players.

I’m sure ANet keeps tabs though and won’t go around making massive changes to their game unless it’s absolutely necessary – but the original point remains unchanged, it’s going to be more than just a “this game isn’t for you” issue if it is detrimental to profits.

Boss fights, etc. in this game would not fit with the trinity and I myself am happy there is NO TRINITY IN THIS GAME. The trinity was a flawed mechanic from the beginning when monster AI’s were less complex then they are now. What I mean by that is, the tank has to keep focus, DPS – all they do is ‘pew pew’ the boss and healers – well they heal. It is pretty simple and does not take much though from any of the players except the healers (who get the brunt of the rage). Most Trinity games, to make it more complex, just raise the HP of the mobs.

The trinity was fine for when game mechanics and AI’s were simple but currently the AI’s out class the trinity mechanic. The Trinity came from card based and D&D games, where the mechanics were simple and each player had a role to perform.

In a true fantasy and fight system, there really isn’t specific roles, it is do what you can to survive, hence what is in this game. It makes EVERY player light on their toes.

If you want the Trinity, may I suggest ESO?

hannah mee.7925:

Again with logical fallacies:

1. A majority of players on Guild Wars 2 does not equate to a majority of a target audience. What these numbers are, I do not know, but I imagine ANet knows and pays close attention.

2. In-game sales won’t happen if people aren’t purchasing and playing the game. Causality and that kitten.

3. Annoy a majority of players that are currently playing, gain a sizable new amount of players. If two players joined for every player that left, that would still be profit.

ANet has done well in the past with marketing and public relations, at least in the essence of targeting their specific audience. Guild Wars got revitalized with the Guild Wars Trilogy sales shortly after Nightfall’s release and EotN was advertised really well to incite returning players.

I’m sure ANet keeps tabs though and won’t go around making massive changes to their game unless it’s absolutely necessary – but the original point remains unchanged, it’s going to be more than just a “this game isn’t for you” issue if it is detrimental to profits.

You’re just gasping at straws.

1)Guild Wars 2’s target audience is NOT consisted of players that play other trinity MMOs. If that had been the case GW2 would have launched as a traditional MMO.

An in game store means that your target audience is mostly consistent of your player that are already playing – because as they’re playing they’re also paying. It also means that if you stop catering to the players that are playing they’ll stop paying. And you don’t want that.

2)People HAVE bought the game. And people WILL buy the game – but you’re sadly mistaken if you think they’ll get more profit from the people that might migrate to GW2 if it turns trinity than they do from the people actually playing the game NOW because it has no trinity.

Guild Wars 2 is playing for a niche. If it goes for a trinity it will have to compete with ALL the trinity games for people’s money.
If it goes for no trinity then it has almost NO COMPETITION since there aren’t a lot of games doing this.

And you can get pretty much all of the no-trinity players – which is a lot more than fighting for scraps against games that have years of experience and a well balanced and consecrated trinity sistem.

3)Because you’re assuming 2 players will join for each one that leave. But that won’t be the case. You can only pull SO many people into an MMO. GW2’s hype is gone. They might have been able to pull this at launch but a year plus into the game’s life you’re not going to catch those huge numbers of players because the hype machine behind the game is gone or just barely there.

Think about it – GW2’s policy right now focuses on player retention – that’s why we have daily achievements, daily crafts, weekly guild missions, daily this and that. So people keep coming back day after day.
It’s not that much about getting NEW people ( which is always a goal ) but keeping the people you’ve got in game and engaged – spending in the gem store.

There are more ways to make profit than you’d imagine. New skins, new content – all of it can be made into profit.
Reworking a game that works just so that it’s similar to other games out there seems like a totally bad move – especially since your entire game concept – your whole sale pitch was " We’re different from those games ".

Negative publicity drives people off a game. Forums filled with negative feedback, huge community backlash and disappointing the player base are a guaranteed recipe for failure.

Also – personally – do you notice the players that have been posting " we don’t want the trinity in this game " over and over in this thread ?

Excellent post, Harper! +1