How GW2 IS becoming a "Grind" -MY thoughts.
What, welcome to MMOs. They are inevitably doing the same thing over and over. It’s whether YOU enjoy it or not is the difference.
When you play an FPS game and see the same map again, is it somehow a ‘grind’? Should you rock on forums and complain that there isn’t thousands of maps to prevent this?
Not sure what you were expecting with GW2, but it seems like you’re hoping for a game that will never come.
I’m thinking you’re suffering from genre burnout.
As Stratto (at least I believe it was him) pointed out, there was enough grinding for legendary weapons. Dungeon armors shouldn’t be a grind. Oh, and I can compare the games. ArenaNet should give me reasons to play their game over Skyrim. It should feel at least as enjoyable and rewarding as the other option. Right now, besides the fact that it’s very much unrewarding, it’s also highly punitive (given repair and waypoint travel costs and how much you die).
I don’t think the problem is the grind for dungeon armor. I think the problem is the lack of reward. Losing more coin then you come in with is not good and discourages people from doing a dungeon.
I can imagine the casual group that wants to tackle these things and come out naked because their armor is destroyed and have lost more than they gained even trying the dungeon.
The armors SHOULD be a grind, I think they should. Don’t compare this to a single player game, if they just gave out the dungeon armor no one would care for it. The reason people want it is because it’s hard to get. A single player game doesn’t work like that, especially with mods and cheats where players can get anything they want basically…
With that said, I tihnk the armors should be a grind. But the problem is that when you finish a dungeon it’s not rewarding. When you down a big boss you get stuff you’ll vendor.
I downed Tequatal or whatever his name is, the big dragon in sparkfly…everything there I vendored, think I came out with 2 more silver. Actually I guess that’s not bad considering this (like most DEs) was pretty easy with all the people around.
I love the game I just think the rewards are a bit off. Dungeons should be far more rewarding at least
And I never said I should get dungeon armor as soon as I logged in. However, the time and effort required to get them now are absurd.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
The rewards keep being nerfed as the difficulty stays the same or slightly increases. They keep driving us to the gem shop but don’t they realize the reason we didn’t use the gem shop was because we didn’t want to have to rely on it and end up spending 50 $ in a day? I’d rather them have a subscription fee. There is a difference between offering an easier path for money and driving a car down someones throat but saying if we pay we don’t have to have skid marks down our esophagus.
What, welcome to MMOs. They are inevitably doing the same thing over and over. It’s whether YOU enjoy it or not is the difference.
When you play an FPS game and see the same map again, is it somehow a ‘grind’? Should you rock on forums and complain that there isn’t thousands of maps to prevent this?
Not sure what you were expecting with GW2, but it seems like you’re hoping for a game that will never come.
I’m thinking you’re suffering from genre burnout.
Oh, I think I’m suffering from “don’t-screw-with-my-enjoyment-just-so-you-can-make-more-money” syndrome. Heard of it?
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
Operative word: “game”. Do the parts you like, skip the parts you don’t, move on when you’ve had enough. Anything else is madness.
“I’m always achieving greatness!”
Operative word: “game”. Do the parts you like, skip the parts you don’t, move on when you’ve had enough. Anything else is madness.
Negative, Operative word: “Product” Pay for what you were promised, raise objections to changes in the quality after payment, don’t shut up until you get what you payed for. (they did this back in the old days) Anything else is consumerism.
That’s my point, you are equating how ‘fun’ the task is by how much coin you get for it. Doing it and getting 10g or doing it and getting 1cp, the activity is exactly the same.
If it’s something you want to do and playing the game is the reward, the coin is irrelevent. If it’s something you don’t really want to do and you are only jumping through hoops to get what you personally deem as a worthwhile thing then you can only expect people to disagree.
No the coin is never irrelevant.
All games have rewards. You’re saying that people would do the dungeon if absolutely nothing happened afterwards? I highly highly doubt that.
All games have a reward. Even a game like Mass Effect, you beat a map/boss and the reward you are given is a cutscene and a story section.
We have agree to disagree. Right now I think the dungeons in particular are more discouraging than encouraging. Instead of players being rewarded for trying to figure their way through them they are punished for that. I don’t think it should be that way.
The rewards keep being nerfed as the difficulty stays the same or slightly increases.
This is the problem with today. They nerf the dungeon rewards and then buff the difficulty.
If you’re going to nerf the reward then nerf the difficulty as well.
If you’re going to buff the reward then buff the difficulty.
I hope right now they are just trying to find a medium for all of this.
They should just allow direct purchase of all 80 Exotics with Gems, then you could just flex the plastic and you wouldn’t need to actually play the game at all… cause thats what you want right ? more stuff in less playing time ?
Only the individual can determine if an arbitrary amount of time spent doing something they deem as a chore is worth a few pixels. That time will vary wildly.
Whereas as the people that seem to enjoy actually playing the game and see them as a bonus generally agree the time to aquire is acceptable, whatever it is.
No one is asking for things for free or to get easy.
Just for the rewards to match.
Right now someone said they got 83 copper from CM…come on now. Yes it was easy and yes it was quick. If you die once now you’ll actually lose money doing CM. A lot of times people are losing coin from doing dungeons and that is more frustrating than fun.
That’s my point, you are equating how ‘fun’ the task is by how much coin you get for it. Doing it and getting 10g or doing it and getting 1cp, the activity is exactly the same.
If it’s something you want to do and playing the game is the reward, the coin is irrelevent. If it’s something you don’t really want to do and you are only jumping through hoops to get what you personally deem as a worthwhile thing then you can only expect people to disagree.
Then I will say this NOW, after you have done all these story modes/exp all you have LEFT is the rewards from dong them swiftly and skillfully. We will all eventually get to the place some of us 80s are at. Quit being a fanboy and see the problem instead of mindlessly backing the company. Problem is: We are getting less of the game rewards now for the same amount of effort than we were 2 weeks ago. WDungeon grinding wasn’t hurting the economy, it was helping it, does anyone else remember when the exotics used to make legendarys were 14 Gold?
I am neither a fanboy nor mindless. The ‘problem’ is that you think you can determine how much effort is worthy of how much reward for all of us. I don’t consider playing a game as any effort at all, if I did I can guarentee you that I wouldn’t be doing it.
That’s where we differ. You run a treadmill in a closed room, whilst I walk along a country lane.
Operative word: “game”. Do the parts you like, skip the parts you don’t, move on when you’ve had enough. Anything else is madness.
Negative, Operative word: “Product” Pay for what you were promised, raise objections to changes in the quality after payment, don’t shut up until you get what you payed for. (they did this back in the old days) Anything else is consumerism.
Agreed. I bought the game on the 10th of April. I was promised an MMO in which the traditional grind had been removed. What I was given was an MMO with even worse grind. And don’t tell me it’s optional; they themselves stated progression in GW2 is about looks. If I have to work 100 hours to progress, then the game is nothing more than a Korean grindfest.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
They should just allow direct purchase of all 80 Exotics with Gems, then you could just flex the plastic and you wouldn’t need to actually play the game at all… cause thats what you want right ? more stuff in less playing time ?
Only the individual can determine if an arbitrary amount of time spent doing something they deem as a chore is worth a few pixels. That time will vary wildly.
Whereas as the people that seem to enjoy actually playing the game and see them as a bonus generally agree the time to aquire is acceptable, whatever it is.
No one is asking for things for free or to get easy.
Just for the rewards to match.
Right now someone said they got 83 copper from CM…come on now. Yes it was easy and yes it was quick. If you die once now you’ll actually lose money doing CM. A lot of times people are losing coin from doing dungeons and that is more frustrating than fun.
That’s my point, you are equating how ‘fun’ the task is by how much coin you get for it. Doing it and getting 10g or doing it and getting 1cp, the activity is exactly the same.
If it’s something you want to do and playing the game is the reward, the coin is irrelevent. If it’s something you don’t really want to do and you are only jumping through hoops to get what you personally deem as a worthwhile thing then you can only expect people to disagree.
Then I will say this NOW, after you have done all these story modes/exp all you have LEFT is the rewards from dong them swiftly and skillfully. We will all eventually get to the place some of us 80s are at. Quit being a fanboy and see the problem instead of mindlessly backing the company. Problem is: We are getting less of the game rewards now for the same amount of effort than we were 2 weeks ago. WDungeon grinding wasn’t hurting the economy, it was helping it, does anyone else remember when the exotics used to make legendarys were 14 Gold?
I am neither a fanboy nor mindless. The ‘problem’ is that you think you can determine how much effort is worthy of how much reward for all of us. I don’t consider playing a game as any effort at all, if I did I can guarentee you that I wouldn’t be doing it.
That’s where we differ. You run a treadmill in a closed room, whilst I walk along a country lane.
Wrong again, when did I say that I determine what the standards of reward are? All I have said is that I payed for a product that I was content with and now the are DRASTICALLY changing the reward system that convinced me to buy it.
You are running along a country lane in a sandbox, whilst I am exploring different avenues of space travel, sir.
I found that little 7 bubbles per a CM clear just yesterday… and I at least got a few runs of fun out of it.
My problem is that all of the world events are BROKEN. The last week since getting past level 50 I am coming across a nearly 60% ratio of broken world events. This leads me to specific areas doing 3 specific world events on a 15 min timer run. Granted that is a little less than 7bubs for 20 mins of work… HOWEVER… it is still GRINDING.
I am NOT going to try to explore your vast world anymore because there is no point when even a lot of your skill events are BROKEN and I just don’t get rewarded for my time (DRAGON EVENT) at all… so why okay through your crappy, buggy mess of a world?
I want to hit max level in 2-3 days played. 48 to 78 hours in a MODERN DAY MMO to hit maximum level is REASONABLE. Anything more is GRINDY AND UNNECESSARY.
I expect the same time curve for my end dame rewards too. From the sounds of it, once I slog and claw, and not-have-fun my way to max level then I am stuck with garbage grindy end game.
You lied to us. You swore to us and promised that you valued our time. That you understood taking us away from the “real world” is a bit of an imposition to you all and that you would make it worth or time. You aren’t. You don’t.
Fix leveling. Fix grinding.
All games have rewards. You’re saying that people would do the dungeon if absolutely nothing happened afterwards? I highly highly doubt that.
I would. I played WoW for years for the raiding. Real PVE progression isn’t gear based. Progression is clearing raids and doing it before as many other guilds as possible. The reward for raiding is the excitement of first kills, with everyone cheering on Vent, and the satisfaction from completing something difficult.
If you apply to a good raid guild and make a point in your application that you like to raid because of loot you may well be declined. Gear is a tool to allow you access to the next tier, it’s not the goal. Equipping a piece of gear can never equal posting on the realm progression thread to announce a realm first.
No the coin is never irrelevant.
All games have rewards. You’re saying that people would do the dungeon if absolutely nothing happened afterwards? I highly highly doubt that.
All games have a reward. Even a game like Mass Effect, you beat a map/boss and the reward you are given is a cutscene and a story section.
We have agree to disagree. Right now I think the dungeons in particular are more discouraging than encouraging. Instead of players being rewarded for trying to figure their way through them they are punished for that. I don’t think it should be that way.
I play golf twice a week, have done for years, usually the same course to. Can you believe I actually PAY money for it ? as in, do something and not come out of it with any physical reward whatsoever ?
I also run Guild Wars dungeons with the same friends, we have a laugh and try not to die too much.
I must be insane obviously.
“(I hit 80 in 3 days)”
There’s the problem.
No the coin is never irrelevant.
All games have rewards. You’re saying that people would do the dungeon if absolutely nothing happened afterwards? I highly highly doubt that.
All games have a reward. Even a game like Mass Effect, you beat a map/boss and the reward you are given is a cutscene and a story section.
We have agree to disagree. Right now I think the dungeons in particular are more discouraging than encouraging. Instead of players being rewarded for trying to figure their way through them they are punished for that. I don’t think it should be that way.
I play golf twice a week, have done for years, usually the same course to. Can you believe I actually PAY money for it ? as in, do something and not come out of it with any physical reward whatsoever ?
I also run Guild Wars dungeons with the same friends, we have a laugh and try not to die too much.
I must be insane obviously.
Sir, does the golf course also slowly break your club and ask your 20$ so fix it? does your ball ever stop in mid air or the holes close up preventing you from progressing? Is there a mob outside every hour that you have to disperse in order to play gold again? NO. But there is in GW2. for you to use such an analogy, you just MIGHT be insane.
All games have rewards. You’re saying that people would do the dungeon if absolutely nothing happened afterwards? I highly highly doubt that.
I would. I played WoW for years for the raiding. Real PVE progression isn’t gear based. Progression is clearing raids and doing it before as many other guilds as possible. The reward for raiding is the excitement of first kills, with everyone cheering on Vent, and the satisfaction from completing something difficult.
If you apply to a good raid guild and make a point in your application that you like to raid because of loot you may well be declined. Gear is a tool to allow you access to the next tier, it’s not the goal. Equipping a piece of gear can never equal posting on the realm progression thread to announce a realm first.
Well what you are talking about isn’t even what this game is about. “World Firsts.” and “Getting the next tier of gear.”
I doubt most even care about ‘world firsts’ if that was true then once a raid was cleared first then people would just stop caring. Only the super competitive care about this stuff. I just care about being rewarded properly for doing something.
I’d love to see what would happen if WOW just took away all the rewards for raids and replaced them with nothing. People do things for rewards though in general, even basic games had a little score that people could track. That was the reward. You do something and you expect a reaction.
I play golf twice a week, have done for years, usually the same course to. Can you believe I actually PAY money for it ? as in, do something and not come out of it with any physical reward whatsoever ?
I also run Guild Wars dungeons with the same friends, we have a laugh and try not to die too much.
I must be insane obviously.
I like your style, sir.
I do agree, now that people are finally getting out of fan boy mode and just jumping on anyone with the slightest of concerns, and people are hitting level 80 and setting their sights on new goals, the grind is becoming apparent.
Income is fine for just day to day getting around money, and even for buying your first set of exotic, but if you want certain things in the game, the grind does become nightmarish. The price of many things needs to be lowered. If the concern is that everyone will then have them, isn’t the point supposed to be aesthetics? If all your armor/weapons look terrible except one, then improve your art. Add more aesthetic options.
The overall income rate in GW2 is insulting, though. I don’t think I’ve ever played a game less satisfying in terms of rewards. I’d like to play “just for fun,” but the ever-present and looming shadow of my wallet is constantly distracting. I imagine it’s all designed to encourage you to buy gems IRL, but this has only made the Chinese botters worse. (Way to let your store ruin the entire game, ANet.)
Reward us appropriately. In GW1 I had five armor each sets across all of my characters. I loved them all, and they were all 15k sets or better. In GW2, getting just one you like can be a nightmare. When everything at the endgame costs almost 100 gold, when you get through with a 15 minute dynamic event and see your 1 silver, 55 copper reward and realize you only got about five drops, totaling about 2 silver, it really just makes you feel like you’re wasting your time.
“(I hit 80 in 3 days)”
There’s the problem.
What? Like a lot of excited people I took some vacation days and thoroughly enjoyed the game, sometimes hardly noticing my level. Not my problem it takes people longer to level up because they don’t mind the ever progressing amount of effort it takes to do so. Because they don’t mind the product they payed for changing under their feet. Because our generation has been raised to just accept the prices and negotiations and complaints are seen as disruptive and moot. Good try trying to redirect the issue. ^.^
Sir, does the golf course also slowly break your club and ask your 20$ so fix it? does your ball ever stop in mid air or the holes close up preventing you from progressing? Is there a mob outside every hour that you have to disperse in order to play gold again? NO. But there is in GW2. for you to use such an analogy, you just MIGHT be insane.
My clubs age naturally yes, I buy new ones every couple of years or so.
It rains half way round every now and again yes and we go the the pub early.
There are slow players that we wait behind sometimes, but thats part of the game.
Next ?
I play golf twice a week, have done for years, usually the same course to. Can you believe I actually PAY money for it ? as in, do something and not come out of it with any physical reward whatsoever ?
I also run Guild Wars dungeons with the same friends, we have a laugh and try not to die too much.
I must be insane obviously.
How cute. Now imagine you pay that upfront fee, and once you’re on the course, you have to play the first five holes for a full year before you’ve gained enough club points to gain access to the next five. The final two are “prestige holes” and will require you to play hole 3 at least five hundred times to gain enough tokens to unlock it.
I play golf twice a week, have done for years, usually the same course to. Can you believe I actually PAY money for it ? as in, do something and not come out of it with any physical reward whatsoever ?
I also run Guild Wars dungeons with the same friends, we have a laugh and try not to die too much.
I must be insane obviously.
[/quote]
I thought I was pretty clear that we were talking about video games here.
All video games give you some reward in the end man, there is a reason for this.
Where is the video game that doesn’t reward the player at all for his success? Someone please find me that game.
“Naturally” would you say every game you have to get them fixed up?
So you go to the pub and wait for the rain to stop and then continue where you left off because you have that option? Or are you forced to start over every time because the rain won’t clear from where you stopped?
So are there slow players about every two holes or that you have to wait for to complete the course before you start playing or?
Next?
P.S do they also funnel all the newbies into your corse whilst offering a noob free course for a borderline extreme amount of money?
(edited by Stratto.3869)
All games have rewards. You’re saying that people would do the dungeon if absolutely nothing happened afterwards? I highly highly doubt that.
I would. I played WoW for years for the raiding. Real PVE progression isn’t gear based. Progression is clearing raids and doing it before as many other guilds as possible. The reward for raiding is the excitement of first kills, with everyone cheering on Vent, and the satisfaction from completing something difficult.
If you apply to a good raid guild and make a point in your application that you like to raid because of loot you may well be declined. Gear is a tool to allow you access to the next tier, it’s not the goal. Equipping a piece of gear can never equal posting on the realm progression thread to announce a realm first.
Well what you are talking about isn’t even what this game is about. “World Firsts.” and “Getting the next tier of gear.”
I doubt most even care about ‘world firsts’ if that was true then once a raid was cleared first then people would just stop caring. Only the super competitive care about this stuff. I just care about being rewarded properly for doing something.
I’d love to see what would happen if WOW just took away all the rewards for raids and replaced them with nothing. People do things for rewards though in general, even basic games had a little score that people could track. That was the reward. You do something and you expect a reaction.
Well as I understood it, you said no-one would do a dungeon for reasons other than loot or money? I’m just pointing out that I for one, already have done that for years. I got loot, but it wasn’t the point. I like the titles and raid mounts, but they’re just a nice bonus. Marking bosses as downed and enjoying time with my guild doing a highly co-ordinated activity that we love is the reward.
In GW2 the armour sets are my raid mount and I fully expect to put a lot of time into getting them. The armour isn’t worth getting otherwise, as it would be no more special than any random levelling item.
The dungeons are a lot of fun to do, I like that there’s stuff that can 1 shot you if you make a mistake. I like adjusting my traits, skills and weapons to optimise for each fight. I like co-ordinating builds and combo fields with the rest of the party. I also very much enjoy having fun with my guild on TS while we do the dungeons.
“Naturally” would you say every game you have to get them fixed up?
So you go to the pub and wait for the rain to stop and then continue where you left off because you have that option? Or are you forced to start over every time because the rain won’t clear from where you stopped?
So are there slow players about every two holes or that you have to wait for to complete the course before you start playing or?
Next?
P.S do they also funnel all the newbies into your corse whilst offering a noob free course for a borderline extreme amount of money?
I have literally no idea what you’re trying to say.
How cute. Now imagine you pay that upfront fee, and once you’re on the course, you have to play the first five holes for a full year before you’ve gained enough club points to gain access to the next five. The final two are “prestige holes” and will require you to play hole 3 at least five hundred times to gain enough tokens to unlock it.
Then I would go and play somewhere else with sensible rules.
I disagree pretty well with the OP. All of the things which you call a grind, I just call nice long term goals which I will complete at my leisure. You’re calling “grind” after a few paltry weeks of play, when the economy is not yet up on its feet. It’s ridiculous. I seriously can’t understand this mindset of people who want everything now now now… just chill out and play the game and stop obsessing about the fact that you can’t have top tier gear and legendaries right away. The game is in its infancy, and those items are meant to be rewards which you will attain “some day”… not through a powergrind by next week.
“Naturally” would you say every game you have to get them fixed up?
So you go to the pub and wait for the rain to stop and then continue where you left off because you have that option? Or are you forced to start over every time because the rain won’t clear from where you stopped?
So are there slow players about every two holes or that you have to wait for to complete the course before you start playing or?
Next?
P.S do they also funnel all the newbies into your corse whilst offering a noob free course for a borderline extreme amount of money?
I have literally no idea what you’re trying to say.
Then never use a metaphor again until you do.
(Naturally) EVERYTIME you do a dungeon you end up having to repair.
(the pub)When a Dungeon glitches you have to reset it and can no longer continue from where you left off.
(slow players) EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY at the top of the hour for 10 minutes CoF is unavailable, ARAH is unavailable for upwards of Half a DAY.
(P.S) They are bringing prices up and rewards down to make you want to buy more gems.
Was that so HARD?
“Naturally” would you say every game you have to get them fixed up?
So you go to the pub and wait for the rain to stop and then continue where you left off because you have that option? Or are you forced to start over every time because the rain won’t clear from where you stopped?
So are there slow players about every two holes or that you have to wait for to complete the course before you start playing or?
Next?
P.S do they also funnel all the newbies into your corse whilst offering a noob free course for a borderline extreme amount of money?
I have literally no idea what you’re trying to say.
Me neither..completely lost…
I think what he is trying to say is that, imagine if someone walked over and snapped your club in half…half way round the course? (its a bit extreme i know) but the point remains.
I personally couldnt give a kitten if they made us do the dungeons naked with no reward…its a challenge…and a challenge i will accept.
Well as I understood it, you said no-one would do a dungeon for reasons other than loot or money? I’m just pointing out that I for one, already have done that for years. I got loot, but it wasn’t the point. I like the titles and raid mounts, but they’re just a nice bonus. Marking bosses as downed and enjoying time with my guild doing a highly co-ordinated activity that we love is the reward.
In GW2 the armour sets are my raid mount and I fully expect to put a lot of time into getting them. The armour isn’t worth getting otherwise, as it would be no more special than any random levelling item.
The dungeons are a lot of fun to do, I like that there’s stuff that can 1 shot you if you make a mistake. I like adjusting my traits, skills and weapons to optimise for each fight. I like co-ordinating builds and combo fields with the rest of the party. I also very much enjoy having fun with my guild on TS while we do the dungeons.
I just said people as in I doubt most people do these things much if there were no reward waiting for them. That’s not saying that the experience isn’t fun or anything…I’ve said I enjoyed dungeons.
Thing is the dungeons are hard. That’s coo. That really is…but they are punishing players for even trying to learn how to do them. As a result it’s hard to mention GW2 dungeon without hearing complaints about how difficult they are and how unrewarding they are. I don’t think the difficulty is so much the problem, I think it’s that the game punishes them with repair fees for trying to figure them out in the first place.
One thing Anet was and has been right about is that people will desire cosmetic items…now they just need to go about how to reward players with those items.
The people saying “If you don’t like it don’t play it” are beyond help .
I paid 50-60$ for this game and it changed a lot in a 2 weeks .
That’s like saying you buy a house and then the next week your landlord demolishes, telling you, you won’t get a refund .
(edited by Maikky.8526)
I disagree pretty well with the OP. All of the things which you call a grind, I just call nice long term goals which I will complete at my leisure. You’re calling “grind” after a few paltry weeks of play, when the economy is not yet up on its feet. It’s ridiculous. I seriously can’t understand this mindset of people who want everything now now now… just chill out and play the game and stop obsessing about the fact that you can’t have top tier gear and legendaries right away. The game is in its infancy, and those items are meant to be rewards which you will attain “some day”… not through a powergrind by next week.
Then you are missing the POINT. It’s not a grind because I want it “NOW”, it’s TURNING into one because they keep making it harder to even get it “LATER.” I don’t see how this is such a hard concept to grasp. WP prices are too high, so even when I do wanna go do something else I keep oozing money. -But that’s it the repair costs, the WP prices, the Nerfing of rewards. ALL of that is funneling us into having to rely on the reward shop, and I’m not ready to take it up thekitten when 2 weeks ago I payed 60 bucks for a product that has changed to much if not for the money I payed I would have dropped it.
The people saying “If you don’t like it don’t play it” are beyond help .
I paid 50-60$ on this game and it changed a lot in a 2 weeks .
That’s like saying you buy a house and then the next week your landlord demolishes, telling you, you won’t get a refund .
^^^^^^^ THIS PEOPLE ^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ YES YES YES.
Then never use a metaphor again until you do.
(Naturally) EVERYTIME you do a dungeon you end up having to repair.
(the pub)When a Dungeon glitches you have to reset it and can no longer continue from where you left off.
(slow players) EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY at the top of the hour for 10 minutes CoF is unavailable, ARAH is unavailable for upwards of Half a DAY.
(P.S) They are bringing prices up and rewards down to make you want to buy more gems.
Was that so HARD?
Well, it was more allegorical than metaphoric but I digress…
You misunderstand, I see exactly what you wrote, I just don’t see any substance behind your statements.
Then never use a metaphor again until you do.
(Naturally) EVERYTIME you do a dungeon you end up having to repair.
(the pub)When a Dungeon glitches you have to reset it and can no longer continue from where you left off.
(slow players) EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY at the top of the hour for 10 minutes CoF is unavailable, ARAH is unavailable for upwards of Half a DAY.
(P.S) They are bringing prices up and rewards down to make you want to buy more gems.
Was that so HARD?
Well, it was more allegorical than metaphoric but I digress…
You misunderstand, I see exactly what you wrote, I just don’t see any substance behind your statements.
Then I am sorry for wasting your time, I thought I could drop down and speak stupid but school has effected me more than I ever imagined. Your sudden use of “big words” shows me that you are trying desperately to save face. -No one cares here, we are talking about an issue for more important than the differences between you and I. If I have insulted you I apologize, but I ask that you either contribute to the conversation, or quit posting in this thread entirely. I’m fine with people having different opinions but as soon as it gets slanderous it insults our intelligence. Are we not people? Keep this as a debate.
Also for those that think Anet is against rewarding players.
Just look at the map. They literally reward players for exploring every point of the map. If they agreed that players shouldn’t be rewarded and that doing everything for ‘fun’ is okay then they should just get rid of vista’s and poi’s.
The rewards are off. Kill a veteran something that you find in the corner of the map and sometimes nothing at all drops. What the kitten is that?
It’s not that I didn’t enjoy killing the mob, it’s that nothing came from it.
I just said people as in I doubt most people do these things much if there were no reward waiting for them. That’s not saying that the experience isn’t fun or anything…I’ve said I enjoyed dungeons.
Thing is the dungeons are hard. That’s coo. That really is…but they are punishing players for even trying to learn how to do them. As a result it’s hard to mention GW2 dungeon without hearing complaints about how difficult they are and how unrewarding they are. I don’t think the difficulty is so much the problem, I think it’s that the game punishes them with repair fees for trying to figure them out in the first place.
One thing Anet was and has been right about is that people will desire cosmetic items…now they just need to go about how to reward players with those items.
That I can agree with, being punished is not fun. Maybe a better way to improve it is to reduce repair costs or replace them with a completely different death penalty altogether.
Then I am sorry for wasting your time, I thought I could drop down and speak stupid but school has effected me more than I ever imagined. Your sudden use of “big words” shows me that you are trying desperately to save face. -No one cares here, we are talking about an issue for more important than the differences between you and I. If I have insulted you I apologize, but I ask that you either contribute to the conversation, or quit posting in this thread entirely. I’m fine with people having different opinions but as soon as it gets slanderous it insults our intelligence. Are we not people? Keep this as a debate.
Fair enough.
I just said people as in I doubt most people do these things much if there were no reward waiting for them. That’s not saying that the experience isn’t fun or anything…I’ve said I enjoyed dungeons.
Thing is the dungeons are hard. That’s coo. That really is…but they are punishing players for even trying to learn how to do them. As a result it’s hard to mention GW2 dungeon without hearing complaints about how difficult they are and how unrewarding they are. I don’t think the difficulty is so much the problem, I think it’s that the game punishes them with repair fees for trying to figure them out in the first place.
One thing Anet was and has been right about is that people will desire cosmetic items…now they just need to go about how to reward players with those items.
That I can agree with, being punished is not fun. Maybe a better way to improve it is to reduce repair costs or replace them with a completely different death penalty altogether.
YES. Being punished for having fun for something you payed for is… I don’t even have the word for it…. Nonsensical? If you are going to nerf the rewards nerf the punishment and vice versa. It insults everyone’s cognitive ability to pretend this is anything other than pushing us towards buying more, but they are sacrificing the quality of the original product and somehow thinking that because of that we will want to buy more.
In my opinion just enjoy your journey from 1 to 80 (one time only). Once you 80, all the suger coated grind becomes too obvious and Guild War 2 becomes just another mmorpg. GW2 was fun till I hit 80, now its:
*Either do X runs of dungeon Y to get gear Z (been there done that).
*Farm world boss X who spawns every Y hrs (been there done that).
*Farm dynamic event X, if will get a spilt second to land your hit before the mobs die to bots and other 99999 players (not exactly 9999, but A LOT!) (been there done that).
*Die 9999 times in personal story if you are a class with weak defence (even if you go all defence build, you will kill mobs too slowly and get hit more, in some areas you cannot kite). Doing personal story is a sure way to remain broke for casual players who don’t farm coin a lot. (This is an innovative new feature)
*Complete map X or do jumping puzzle Y again.
- Fight other servers in WvWvW or do sPvP (been there done that – on a different scale)
*Report bots and gold sellers (been there done that).
*Grind some Karma, think to buy the overpriced karma gear and then postpone the decision while you go back to grinding some more karma. (been there done that)
etc etc…..
I would like to state again that the above is my personal opinion and yours may be different. I did not make this post to argue with anyone, just stating how I feel now that the honeymoon fantasy phase is over and I see things as they are. But would add that I feel Guild Wars 2 was worth the $59.99 I spent on it, as it kept me entertained for a few weeks.
Remember when ArenaNet promised that getting gear with max-stats would be trivial and require no grind when hitting level 80?
They said it was only special prestige skins that would require a lot of effort to obtain.
So where’s the easy to obtain max stat gear? Every way to get money/crafting materials for the crafted exotics is branded an exploit and patched out of the game. And the crafted gear only covers maybe 10% of the possible stat combinations, for many people this gear is not max-stats because some of the stats are just useless to them, meaning even more of a grind for these people to get max-stat gear.
Why does ArenaNet want people to grind just to be on an even stat level as everyone else? Is this WoW or Guild Wars?
In my opinion just enjoy your journey from 1 to 80 (one time only). Once you 80, all the suger coated grind becomes too obvious and Guild War 2 becomes just another mmorpg. GW2 was fun till I hit 80, now its:
*Either do X runs of dungeon Y to get gear Z (been there done that).
*Farm world boss X who spawns every Y hrs (been there done that).
*Farm dynamic event X, if will get a spilt second to land your hit before the mobs die to bots and other 99999 players (not exactly 9999, but A LOT!) (been there done that).
*Die 9999 times in personal story if you are a class with weak defence (even if you go all defence build, you will kill mobs too slowly and get hit more, in some areas you cannot kite). Doing personal story is a sure way to remain broke for casual players who don’t farm coin a lot. (This is an innovative new feature)
*Complete map X or do jumping puzzle Y again.
- Fight other servers in WvWvW or do sPvP (been there done that – on a different scale)
*Report bots and gold sellers (been there done that).
*Grind some Karma, think to buy the overpriced karma gear and then postpone the decision while you go back to grinding some more karma. (been there done that)
etc etc…..I would like to state again that the above is my personal opinion and yours may be different. I did not make this post to argue with anyone, just stating how I feel now that the honeymoon fantasy phase is over and I see things as they are. But would add that I feel Guild Wars 2 was worth the $59.99 I spent on it, as it kept me entertained for a few weeks.
But the question should be asked…. Is it OK to drastically change the parameters of the product you spent 60 bucks on? The answer is… It’s not. If you buy a movie after seeing it in theaters, and find out they changed the story from a Intellectual to a Die Hard-esk film are you going to just sit and try to enjoy the new movie that was once good enough for you to buy? That’s not OK, and you would take the movie back and demand a refund, or that’s what a person who valued their hard earned money would do.
In my opinion just enjoy your journey from 1 to 80 (one time only). Once you 80, all the suger coated grind becomes too obvious and Guild War 2 becomes just another mmorpg. GW2 was fun till I hit 80, now its:
*Either do X runs of dungeon Y to get gear Z (been there done that).
*Farm world boss X who spawns every Y hrs (been there done that).
*Farm dynamic event X, if will get a spilt second to land your hit before the mobs die to bots and other 99999 players (not exactly 9999, but A LOT!) (been there done that).
*Die 9999 times in personal story if you are a class with weak defence (even if you go all defence build, you will kill mobs too slowly and get hit more, in some areas you cannot kite). Doing personal story is a sure way to remain broke for casual players who don’t farm coin a lot. (This is an innovative new feature)
*Complete map X or do jumping puzzle Y again.
- Fight other servers in WvWvW or do sPvP (been there done that – on a different scale)
*Report bots and gold sellers (been there done that).
*Grind some Karma, think to buy the overpriced karma gear and then postpone the decision while you go back to grinding some more karma. (been there done that)
etc etc…..I would like to state again that the above is my personal opinion and yours may be different. I did not make this post to argue with anyone, just stating how I feel now that the honeymoon fantasy phase is over and I see things as they are. But would add that I feel Guild Wars 2 was worth the $59.99 I spent on it, as it kept me entertained for a few weeks.
But the question should be asked…. Is it OK to drastically change the parameters of the product you spent 60 bucks on? The answer is… It’s not. If you buy a movie after seeing it in theaters, and find out they changed the story from a Intellectual to a Die Hard-esk film are you going to just sit and try to enjoy the new movie that was once good enough for you to buy? That’s not OK, and you would take the movie back and demand a refund, or that’s what a person who valued their hard earned money would do.
I agree, the “no traditional mmo grind” marketing slogan was what got me interested in Guild Wars 2 and one of the main causes I spent my money on this game.
I just said people as in I doubt most people do these things much if there were no reward waiting for them. That’s not saying that the experience isn’t fun or anything…I’ve said I enjoyed dungeons.
Thing is the dungeons are hard. That’s coo. That really is…but they are punishing players for even trying to learn how to do them. As a result it’s hard to mention GW2 dungeon without hearing complaints about how difficult they are and how unrewarding they are. I don’t think the difficulty is so much the problem, I think it’s that the game punishes them with repair fees for trying to figure them out in the first place.
One thing Anet was and has been right about is that people will desire cosmetic items…now they just need to go about how to reward players with those items.
That I can agree with, being punished is not fun. Maybe a better way to improve it is to reduce repair costs or replace them with a completely different death penalty altogether.
I think that would help.
To use your golf analogy it would be like forcing you to pay for each bad swing you make. It’s like “Isn’t the fact that I made a bad swing enough? Now I have to dig into my pocket and pay for more?”
I understand that explorable were made to be difficult, but the last explorable group I was in just gave up because they were worried about repairs. I was having fun with the group, it seemed (although I can’t speak for them) they were having fun too…and we were trying to figure out the best strat for it and talking between each other and this all with a PUG!
The dungeons IMO are fun, it’s just the result can be frustrating. With the repair fees as is you can’t blame a player for leaving the group (he may be broke as it is) or a group just saying ‘forget it’.
They either need to lower the repair costs or have it so that when you do down a boss in a dungeon he gives you enough rewards to make up for what you may have lost.
But the question should be asked…. Is it OK to drastically change the parameters of the product you spent 60 bucks on? The answer is… It’s not. If you buy a movie after seeing it in theaters, and find out they changed the story from a Intellectual to a Die Hard-esk film are you going to just sit and try to enjoy the new movie that was once good enough for you to buy? That’s not OK, and you would take the movie back and demand a refund, or that’s what a person who valued their hard earned money would do.
So, with respect, if you feel that way why are you not going back to get your money back and returning the game ?
Remember when ArenaNet promised that getting gear with max-stats would be trivial and require no grind when hitting level 80?
They said it was only special prestige skins that would require a lot of effort to obtain.
So where’s the easy to obtain max stat gear? Every way to get money/crafting materials for the crafted exotics is branded an exploit and patched out of the game. And the crafted gear only covers maybe 10% of the possible stat combinations, for many people this gear is not max-stats because some of the stats are just useless to them, meaning even more of a grind for these people to get max-stat gear.
Why does ArenaNet want people to grind just to be on an even stat level as everyone else? Is this WoW or Guild Wars?
Games like Perfect World introduced Grinding and farming so that people would buy their currency with real life money ($), and then sell that game currency for items which are acquired through farming (dungeons and stuff) and also on items which will make the grinding a lot faster (getting a higher % of XP per kill for a specific time).
I find it funny when some people say they like to grind/farm a lot because it gives them something to do. I mean who is forcing you to sit on your computer all day and grind/farm. There are much more productive things you can do with your time which will help you in real life.
So grinding and farming became massive money making characteristics for Perfect World, and the fun thing is they promoted their mmorpg as Free to Play (more like Pay to Compete lol). No matter what a mmorpg company tells you, they are in business to make money and by seeing current mmorpg market, a LOTS of money.
Now I have not played Guild Wars 2 long enough to see if what Perfect World did applies to them too, all we can do it wait and see.
I am certainly one that hates the grinding nature after obtaining level 80. I find it funny here when people say it doesn’t feel like a grind. Spam AOEing events for hours for karma isnt grinding, that’s fun to you? Running the same dungeon over and over for hours on end for 1 piece of gear, that’s fun and not grinding?
Anyway, Here is the deal. This happens in nearly every MMO. People complain stuff is too hard, or takes to long to obtain. Game designers change it to suit the players. BAM, players complain that stuff is now too easy, or now that they have obtained everything because it was made easier to obtain, and they have nothing to do, and demand more content, so they can devour it in a week, and start complaining again.
Again, I hate grinding. I do NOT like the way 80 content is currently in this game….but that’s me. I can play it or not. I will say this though, I am glad to see, atleast for now, Anet is not backing down from their vision in this game. So many companies jump through hoops to change their game and only make it worse in the end and people still complain. People are going to complain no matter what they do, and I am impressed that Anet is not caving into the constant complaints.
Yes, I am going to bring up WoW…here goes the fanboys, however look at what has happened to that game. People complained that 5 mans and raids were too hard, Blizzard listened to them, and now look at the sad excuse 5 mans and raids have become, the PLAYERS killed that game, and still complain.
Bottom line, you bought the game. Play it as is, not how YOU want it to be, or don’t play.
(edited by Naughty.5064)
What’s with the trend of people like Anet and Blizzard (diablo) taking away my dungeon loot runs? I miss old school MMO’s of running through dungeons hunting and camping loot. Meh.
I just want more fun dungeons.