Guild Wars 2

Hello I rarly post on the forums for many reasons from bad spelling to grammer and such but posting today to give how I feel on something that I am noticing in this game.

When I first pre ordered the game and played in some of the closed betas I wanted this game due to some changes from other typical mmo games most being that being able to play a character how I wanted to build and play them.

Seems though that this is not the case it seems as reguardless of how I want to make a character if I am not willing to change or conform to how every other player wants it making a character my way now makes me alone and having to play alone, while not everyone is like this it seem they are in a big majority or at least more heard. So with this now if I want to stat a class build to be more oriented for grouping I can not do this because I do not want to stat or use gear the mass players in game want me to use to rush though stuff, and I do not like rushing and am someone who dose not like being told to use online guides because I like to trial and error learn things.

Well reguardless the devs really should look into this kinda stuff while I might agree that magic find I would not use it for dungeon runs and such but personal runs for more items, I do not want to stat all my characters power or condion damage maybe I might want something with healing or boon influanceing builds that work into groups.

P.S. This is not me telling those players to conform to how I want it either, but with the mass amount of players who want zerk stuff pretty much leaves me out due to I have no intrest in playing that build and if I do not have intrest in playing that build why should I even play.

Well, that’s true and not true.

I run a casual guild and people in my guild play the way they want to. We do dungeon runs, fractals, WvW (though not too much of it) whatever we want, because we want people to have fun playing their way. It’s what we’re about.

But trying to pug, that’s probably a lot harder.

I feel your pain.

Genfar.4079:

Hello I rarly post on the forums for many reasons from bad spelling to grammer and such but posting today to give how I feel on something that I am noticing in this game.

When I first pre ordered the game and played in some of the closed betas I wanted this game due to some changes from other typical mmo games most being that being able to play a character how I wanted to build and play them.

Seems though that this is not the case it seems as reguardless of how I want to make a character if I am not willing to change or conform to how every other player wants it making a character my way now makes me alone and having to play alone, while not everyone is like this it seem they are in a big majority or at least more heard. So with this now if I want to stat a class build to be more oriented for grouping I can not do this because I do not want to stat or use gear the mass players in game want me to use to rush though stuff, and I do not like rushing and am someone who dose not like being told to use online guides because I like to trial and error learn things.

Well reguardless the devs really should look into this kinda stuff while I might agree that magic find I would not use it for dungeon runs and such but personal runs for more items, I do not want to stat all my characters power or condion damage maybe I might want something with healing or boon influanceing builds that work into groups.

P.S. This is not me telling those players to conform to how I want it either, but with the mass amount of players who want zerk stuff pretty much leaves me out due to I have no intrest in playing that build and if I do not have intrest in playing that build why should I even play.

This is true, but as humans we always look for the fastest, most effective way don’t we? Zerker, as you stated, is superior in most aspects of the game, but really if you have a build idea, stat/gear idea… go for it. If you’re good at it, and you actually make a difference in groups etc, noone will say a thing. Also noone likes a full zerker dieing every 3 seconds.

Genfar.4079:

Hello I rarly post on the forums for many reasons from bad spelling to grammer and such but posting today to give how I feel on something that I am noticing in this game.

When I first pre ordered the game and played in some of the closed betas I wanted this game due to some changes from other typical mmo games most being that being able to play a character how I wanted to build and play them.

Seems though that this is not the case it seems as reguardless of how I want to make a character if I am not willing to change or conform to how every other player wants it making a character my way now makes me alone and having to play alone, while not everyone is like this it seem they are in a big majority or at least more heard. So with this now if I want to stat a class build to be more oriented for grouping I can not do this because I do not want to stat or use gear the mass players in game want me to use to rush though stuff, and I do not like rushing and am someone who dose not like being told to use online guides because I like to trial and error learn things.

Well reguardless the devs really should look into this kinda stuff while I might agree that magic find I would not use it for dungeon runs and such but personal runs for more items, I do not want to stat all my characters power or condion damage maybe I might want something with healing or boon influanceing builds that work into groups.

P.S. This is not me telling those players to conform to how I want it either, but with the mass amount of players who want zerk stuff pretty much leaves me out due to I have no intrest in playing that build and if I do not have intrest in playing that build why should I even play.

I take it you joined a zerker group.

Zerker groups ask you to ‘conform’. If you refuse to conform, they drop you. Is there a problem with that?

There are other groups/guilds out there that take on casual runs that dont’ care about what class or gearset. Go join them.

Genfar, I see your point exactly.

In my case there are 2 things bugging me about this game.

1) Zerk players becoming a trend (Blame ANet for content bad designed)
2) particle FX on skins.

This game advertised as something great and revolutionary…

its turning more and more into another WoW but without strategy (which is kind of even worst).

Flashy players thinking they are the reborn Satan with fire, dragons and demon armor (or all white with lights like they are all angels, wtf); of course, all full DPS using the biggest weapon they can find.

I’ve been playing a PVT Warrior (Axe/Shield and Hammer) since Head Start and I never had a problem with any content. I got my Dungeon Master last year and I’m still using the same build. Why? because I think is the most effective and representative of my class. I have lots of CC skills, good damage (highest power you can get unbuffed), block skills, etc…

Yesterday was the proof. I had a blast with the event, my GF (she plays an arcane elem and learned her way to support like no other) and I were farming those champs having a laugh while the map chat was a river of tears from all the Zerks who think they can play like the videos getting killed over and over again by the vets and AOE skills.

Don’t follow the trends or the masses… most of them just follow what they read without a proper analysis, and they don’t realize they are not as good players as they think and most of them fail badly.

OP, it sounds like you (like a lot of people, unfortunately) had a bad experience trying to find a dungeon group. You need to keep in mind that there are tolerant people out there that don’t give two kittens whether you run berserker or not. You just have to get out there and find them. But as someone above me posted, zerk is the fastest way, and humans are wired to find the “best” way and faster is often better. Just keep looking. I’ve had good experiences running 1 support guardian in a zerk group. It gives the 4 zerkers a much easier time doing their dps.

I may sound like I’m about to contradict myself here, but there’s another important side to this. Just like in real society, you can’t expect to succeed in life without doing things in a way that promotes success. For example you might want to get a job as an electrician, but you can’t expect to “build” yourself as a good electrician without “putting stats” into being good at it (getting an education, etc). “Putting stats” into pie-baking isn’t going to make you a better electrician. I hope this analogy is making sense, lol. You have to be willing to do things the “right way” instead of assuming that “play the way you want” means you can literally face-roll your build and expect to be on par with everyone else. I’m only saying this because I’ve talked to people who were hell-bent on sticking with terrible builds. (I’m not saying yours is terrible, idk what your build is.)

But again, you don’t have to be full zerk to clear content. It just takes a hell of a lot longer with full clerics (for example). And there’s no additional benefit doing it the slow way.

Its happening more and more, Anets unbalanced gear and builds unfortunately.

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

Mesket.5728:

Genfar, I see your point exactly.

In my case there are 2 things bugging me about this game.

1) Zerk players becoming a trend (Blame ANet for content bad designed)
2) particle FX on skins.

This game advertised as something great and revolutionary…

its turning more and more into another WoW but without strategy (which is kind of even worst).

folks this is what happens when you hype yourself into oblivion about a game you haven’t played. The only thing that Arenanet ever claimed to be revolutionary is the Dynamic event system other than that they never claimed anything more than that.

As for the whole strategy, in some respect you are right but gw2 has more potential than WOW ever does for interesting fights since everybody could be an active participate and not a tank simply spamming buttons while dps stand back and go through their rotation and the healer spamming heals.

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

Horrible solution.

The boss mechanics need to be designed to require more than simply dps. Introduce mechanics that rewards good zekers and extremely punishes bad zerkers while making other non dps build viable. Actually, make fights that require the other 2 aspects such as support and control. The newer bosses are beginning to show some signs but the bigger bosses need to do the same.

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

I love this idea. I really do. I know we don’t always see eye to eye, but not this time.

Vayne.8563:

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

I love this idea. I really do. I know we don’t always see eye to eye, but not this time.

Lol it will be hardcore but so good… but I’m afraid people will move to the next damage build.

silvermember.8941:

Mesket.5728:

Genfar, I see your point exactly.

In my case there are 2 things bugging me about this game.

1) Zerk players becoming a trend (Blame ANet for content bad designed)
2) particle FX on skins.

This game advertised as something great and revolutionary…

its turning more and more into another WoW but without strategy (which is kind of even worst).

folks this is what happens when you hype yourself into oblivion about a game you haven’t played. The only thing that Arenanet ever claimed to be revolutionary is the Dynamic event system other than that they never claimed anything more than that.

As for the whole strategy, in some respect you are right but gw2 has more potential than WOW ever does for interesting fights since everybody could be an active participate and not a tank simply spamming buttons while dps stand back and go through their rotation and the healer spamming heals.

Dynamic Events didn’t come with GW2. Warhammer Public Quests had been around for quite a few years now and they were amazing.

The “revolutionary” thing that GW2 introduced were the “no tanks/healers” and 3 “new” roles: Damage, Control and Support.

They messed up completely giving Support to damage roles (Might, Fury, etc… they don’t scale… there is no “boon potency” stat that makes my Might or Fury better than yours (Take note DEVS!!!!)). Also, control doesn’t play much of a role since it is weak, very weak; real control skills last for just a few seconds and where you mostly needed (like a boss fight) they have defiance (which is a fine mechanic, maybe a bit too strong somtimes).

If anything can be done using only zerk gear, then there was a HUGE fail from the designer team and they need to take a second look. I mean, playing in full Zerk should’ve been something elitist and in GW2 is the average Joe. Where is the punishment for not having anything else but damage? Why do Zerk players wonder around without a support player besides them? Why do support players who struggle for team play get rejected and called selfish (this is probably the biggest gaming irony I’ve seen so far)? It’s obvious that something went wrong from the paper to the implementation.

If you remove zerker, people will just move to the second best stat combination.

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

Generally we dont agree, but I could go with this. Or just reducing the stats a bit, to bring it more in line with other armors. This way it isnt ‘the most optimal, must have uber power trip’ armor. Cause lets face it, thats all it is – hulk smash > intelligence.

Trying to think of what the next best stat combo would be…

Im not at home so i cant tell if these are actual stat combos… but

Power, condi damage, condi duration? Would this be the next best dmg combo? I have no idea if any builds are really condusive to this.

Or. improved solution: Remove Power, Precision, critical chance, condition damage, condition duration (all offensive stats) from gear. Maybe replace some of these stats with Boon duration or things like that.

Now all that you have left is vitality, toughness, healing power, etc.. Build your character for more survivability, or healing…less pressure to do the most damage. If you want to provide your group with more utility, or if you want to provide yourself with more survivability, then go ahead.

<shrugs>

I was thinking valkyrie while doing everything else possible to boost precision, or maybe a mixture of knight and valk. Maybe celestial. dunno.

But if you guys think removing zerker would diversify the meta, you’re wrong, people would just take the second best option.

It’s not the Stats or the the “players” that are broken, it’s the Content itself.

Vol.5241:

I take it you joined a zerker group.

Well given that they’re quickly becoming the only groups left….

…yes process of elimination does work that way (especially when Anet openly penalizes the Mechanics of everything else that isn’t Zerker)

Just don’t run dungeons. Every other part of the game doesn’t require you to “optimize” your gear according to other people’s expectations. You can run a full mf gear (while its still available) in PvE, WvW, PvP and nobody will know or give a kitten and you’re not required to play with a “team” mentality. This whole “zerk = optimal gear” discourse is really only relevant in dungeons.

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

Actually what you would see is everyone resorting to Rampager’s gear.

People enjoy games for different reasons. Some like completing a game, others like to just play casually. You should focus on talking with people that share the same views as you. You have the ability to change things around you, so don’t spend so much energy expecting others to change for you.

colesy.8490:

If you remove zerker, people will just move to the second best stat combination.

Exactly. Those whose play-style is to look for the most efficient way are going to play the way they want.

ANet could have made a more even playing field for different builds in PvE. All-out damage comes with low risk and high reward. However, flattening the damage curve would make PvP unbalanced. The two game modes are more dissimilar than similar. That’s unfortunate, but is unlikely to change.

You’ll run into that in any game. Theres nothing anet can do about that, because it’s not their fault of the player’s mindset.

When I went to do the aetherblade dungeon one of our party members left the party because he refused to do the dungeon with a level 62 ranger (the character I was on). Too bad for him because we didn’t even wipe, despite that being my first (and last) time in the dungeon (not that the dungeon wasn’t good, it was just near the end of that LS).

People are always to serious in games. Some players however, like me, don’t care that much. Just don’t try to run a dungeon seriously underleveled and as long as you’re attacking the bosses, i’m fine with you.

Mesket.5728:

Where is the punishment for not having anything else but damage? Why do Zerk players wonder around without a support player besides them?

Good points. There needs to be a risk/reward spectrum. If you go extreme to one end of the spectrum (full offense, no defense) you’re taking a risk, and it might payoff, but you should just as often lose due to being squishy. And if you go to the other extreme end of the spectrum (no offense, full defense) you should have a tough time taking foes down, but you should be very survivable.

It seems like the “risk” to go full Zerk is not high enough. Going full-Zerk should add more glass to the glass cannon so that folks only choose it when they accept that risk, while the majority would scale back on the spectrum and get some defense in their specs.

Sadly, one sure-fire way to discourage zerker parties is to make all dungeons contain damage or debuffs that cannot be removed or are unavoidable…and that do not damage you based on % health, but by a static number. So if a thief with 10k HP is running all zerker, and this aoe damage hits him(unavoidable) and causes a flat 2500 damage each second for 3 seconds..that thief is up a creek man.

But then that opens the door to extremely lazy and boring dungeon design. But i bet you, you’ll see a lot less zerkers.

Or add in some enrage mechanics if the boss senses all zerker gear =)

I have said this in another thread recently. The GW2 playerbase is expected to see more discrimination from this point onwards in PvE dungeon clears:

1. Class discrimination: Warrior, mesmers and guardians only because they are considered by many as the 3 best classes in the game.

2. Build discrimination: Zerk or gtfo (especially if you are a warrior or mesmer). For the guardian, don’t expect much of a fallout because people love guardians so even PVT stats will do.

Many groups still won’t take you if you run a zerker build but have a ‘weaker’ class such as ranger, engineer, thief, necro and even sadly, the ele. So, the best way to save your time and everyone’s time would be to level a mesmer, warrior or guard first and then deck them out appropriately.

cesmode.4257:

Sadly, one sure-fire way to discourage zerker parties is to make all dungeons contain damage or debuffs that cannot be removed or are unavoidable…and that do not damage you based on % health, but by a static number. So if a thief with 10k HP is running all zerker, and this aoe damage hits him(unavoidable) and causes a flat 2500 damage each second for 3 seconds..that thief is up a creek man.

But then that opens the door to extremely lazy and boring dungeon design. But i bet you, you’ll see a lot less zerkers.

Or add in some enrage mechanics if the boss senses all zerker gear =)

I think that’s the idea with confusion but confusion hurts you based on a percentage of your hp each time you attack, instead of hurting you more the harder you hit.

Besides what about me, I prioritize toughness over vitality, so while I don’t have the highest hp total, I have a ton of armor. So a flat damage that ignores armor would screw my build over, even though i’m not the targeted build.

Maybe change confusion to be one stack, stack duration, damage more the harder you hit, and that number is reduced by toughness, while having a higher vitality would naturally be better with that combination because damage is not dependent on your hp so it would be better to have more hp.

cesmode.4257:

Sadly, one sure-fire way to discourage zerker parties is to make all dungeons contain damage or debuffs that cannot be removed or are unavoidable…and that do not damage you based on % health, but by a static number. So if a thief with 10k HP is running all zerker, and this aoe damage hits him(unavoidable) and causes a flat 2500 damage each second for 3 seconds..that thief is up a creek man.

But then that opens the door to extremely lazy and boring dungeon design. But i bet you, you’ll see a lot less zerkers.

The problem with that is in PvE we are not all created equal. For example a thief or an elementalist has to go all out vitality and toughness to get the base values that a warrior gets.

In your example the 10k HP Berserker thief is in trouble, but the 20k hp berserker warrior is still fine. In fact, this is part of the reason why Warriors are the king Zerkers now.

The health / armor difference plays a huge role in PvE. but at the same time we are not delegated to rolls because the berserker warrior will deal as much DPS as the thief.

@mage: while most of your post I’ll agree with the last line doesn’t help matters and if everyone followed that line of thinking, it would perpetuate matters and break this game completely.

No, something needs to be done about this. Its a sad state of affairs, because I fully support a game without the trinity. I guess with the absence of trinity, full DPS specs ARE the way to go and I’ll explain why:

In a game like WoW you have three roles: Tank, Heals, DPS. Tank maximizes threat and survivability. Heals maximize group support and heals. DPS maximize DPS. Thats it.

In a game like GW2, you don’t have these roles. The game is designed with no tanks or healers in mind. So, if content can be accomplished in the most DPS-oriented mannar, it is. And that is where we are.

Solution:
-Tweak gear to encourage adding more survivability
-Tweak dungeon mechanics to encourage adding more survivability
-Tweak gear so that berserker builds are only for the cream of the crop players…not the 10 million zerker warriors running around now.
-Tweak dungeon mechanics so that berserker buildsare only for the cream of the crop players…not the 10 million zerker warriors running around now.

Lokki.1092:

cesmode.4257:

Sadly, one sure-fire way to discourage zerker parties is to make all dungeons contain damage or debuffs that cannot be removed or are unavoidable…and that do not damage you based on % health, but by a static number. So if a thief with 10k HP is running all zerker, and this aoe damage hits him(unavoidable) and causes a flat 2500 damage each second for 3 seconds..that thief is up a creek man.

But then that opens the door to extremely lazy and boring dungeon design. But i bet you, you’ll see a lot less zerkers.

The problem with that is in PvE we are not all created equal. For example a thief or an elementalist has to go all out vitality and toughness to get the base values that a warrior gets.

In your example the 10k HP Berserker thief is in trouble, but the 20k hp berserker warrior is still fine. In fact, this is part of the reason why Warriors are the king Zerkers now.

The health / armor difference plays a huge role in PvE. but at the same time we are not delegated to rolls because the berserker warrior will deal as much DPS as the thief.

That is a problem with the different classes having such a huge gap in terms of stats. I think its the Necro that has the highest baseline HP and HP scaling, while a guardian has the lowest.

ilr.9675:

It’s not the Stats or the the “players” that are broken, it’s the Content itself.

Vol.5241:

I take it you joined a zerker group.

Well given that they’re quickly becoming the only groups left….

…yes process of elimination does work that way (especially when Anet openly penalizes the Mechanics of everything else that isn’t Zerker)

Oh no, it is very much the player base that is broken. The general intolerance of anything except what is perfectly optimal is the issue.

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

I can go with this- I really can

and I run Rampager’s on my Engi with a mix of Bezerker and Rampager’s on my Lb/Sb Ranger.

I have been playing a condi built full Carrion GS/Staff Mesmer since launch and I played her for 5 months exclusively.

My husband runs a mix of Knight’s and Valkyrie on a GS/ LB ranger.
the more builds we use the better off the game

How about this:
Add some in-game mechanic that reduces the potency of your self heal and endurance with the more berserker gear you have on.

So if someone wants to roll with a full zerker set, his self heal will only heal for like 2k and his endurance bar recharges a lot slower.

Now, this is not to discourage berserker gear completely. Equipping one piece would still enable this debuff, we’ll call it “exhaustion”, but it would only be one stack. Two berserker pieces would be two stacks of exhaustion, and so on. So that if you are THAT good where you dont need to dodge as much or heal as much you can roll full zerker.

I think this solution, to be honest, is the best one I can think of…I hope arenanet reads this one.

The idea is to discourage the use of complete berserker gear unless you are skilled enough to avoid 90% of all damage, but not to discourage the use of berserker gear entirely because doing as much damage as you safely can is a playstyle in itself…

The only glass cannons out there would be those who can really handle it. If a group is constantly rezzing the glass cannon, then we know who cant hack it as a berserker.

I think this idea promotes more build diversity and showcases the skill of some players if they can pull off full berserker sets.

Morrigan.2809:

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

I can go with this- I really can

and I run Rampager’s on my Engi with a mix of Bezerker and Rampager’s on my Lb/Sb Ranger.

I have been playing a condi built full Carrion GS/Staff Mesmer since launch and I played her for 5 months exclusively.

My husband runs a mix of Knight’s and Valkyrie on a GS/ LB ranger.
the more builds we use the better off the game

Sounds like you want zerker gone so you don’t have to feel bad about using inferior gear.

cesmode.4257:

Lokki.1092:

cesmode.4257:

Sadly, one sure-fire way to discourage zerker parties is to make all dungeons contain damage or debuffs that cannot be removed or are unavoidable…and that do not damage you based on % health, but by a static number. So if a thief with 10k HP is running all zerker, and this aoe damage hits him(unavoidable) and causes a flat 2500 damage each second for 3 seconds..that thief is up a creek man.

But then that opens the door to extremely lazy and boring dungeon design. But i bet you, you’ll see a lot less zerkers.

The problem with that is in PvE we are not all created equal. For example a thief or an elementalist has to go all out vitality and toughness to get the base values that a warrior gets.

In your example the 10k HP Berserker thief is in trouble, but the 20k hp berserker warrior is still fine. In fact, this is part of the reason why Warriors are the king Zerkers now.

The health / armor difference plays a huge role in PvE. but at the same time we are not delegated to rolls because the berserker warrior will deal as much DPS as the thief.

That is a problem with the different classes having such a huge gap in terms of stats. I think its the Necro that has the highest baseline HP and HP scaling, while a guardian has the lowest.

Right this is how they painted themselves into this corner. We all have to have (near)equal DPS and survivability because we have no rolls and are all take the same slot in a group. Currently in PvE we do have(near)equal survivability, because bosses only hit you once every 5 seconds and everyone has a dodge. the 10k Thief and the 20k warrior are on even terms when it comes to survival.

This is why Agony is percent based again it keeps up all on even footing. But if you place an effective health requirement on content it will either be too high for 1/2 the classes or too low. Thus making our survivability no longer (near)equal. Further splitting the “good” classes from the “bad”

The problem as people have pointed out over and over is that we don’t have multiple roles but our goals are still the same. Kill the bad guys.

Think about your options:

Zerker, finish content in 10mins
everyone doing heal/condi/tank, finish the content 30mins

time vs. reward, its the same reward all around, zerker just closes the gap.

I run 3k armour, 3k atk, 45% crit, 75% critdmg on my guard, so I can tag the aggro (slighty high tog) so the other dps can slap him down because dodging/dying means your not dpsing

They should reduce base stats (HP, armor, heal efficiency) and make it scale better with gear.

Zerk players will really be zerk and Risk/Reward balance restored

Genfar.4079:

Hello I rarly post on the forums for many reasons from bad spelling to grammer and such but posting today to give how I feel on something that I am noticing in this game.

When I first pre ordered the game and played in some of the closed betas I wanted this game due to some changes from other typical mmo games most being that being able to play a character how I wanted to build and play them.

Seems though that this is not the case it seems as reguardless of how I want to make a character if I am not willing to change or conform to how every other player wants it making a character my way now makes me alone and having to play alone, while not everyone is like this it seem they are in a big majority or at least more heard. So with this now if I want to stat a class build to be more oriented for grouping I can not do this because I do not want to stat or use gear the mass players in game want me to use to rush though stuff, and I do not like rushing and am someone who dose not like being told to use online guides because I like to trial and error learn things.

Well reguardless the devs really should look into this kinda stuff while I might agree that magic find I would not use it for dungeon runs and such but personal runs for more items, I do not want to stat all my characters power or condion damage maybe I might want something with healing or boon influanceing builds that work into groups.

P.S. This is not me telling those players to conform to how I want it either, but with the mass amount of players who want zerk stuff pretty much leaves me out due to I have no intrest in playing that build and if I do not have intrest in playing that build why should I even play.

It depends. If you play mostly with PuGs, then you may encounter that. If you play with a casual guild and make friends with them, it’s all about exploration and helping each other out.

Vayne.8563:

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

I love this idea. I really do. I know we don’t always see eye to eye, but not this time.

Honestly, this probably is the better solution. You remove the most optimum solution from the game, but you force things to open up some. However, you’re likely to see a lot of people shift to, again, one stat set.

Like, we might just all start complaining about Knight’s or Soldier’s or Rampager’s.

cesmode.4257:

How about this:
Add some in-game mechanic that reduces the potency of your self heal and endurance with the more berserker gear you have on.

The problem with this is, you are treating a symptom not the illness.

Berserker gear being the best isn’t the problem. If we went through with your Idea then the masses would find what percentage of Rampager and Valkyrie were the best and you would see “LF2M Ramp/Valk link gear”

The problem is that we all use the same gear, the same stats, and have (nearly) the same baseline survivability and DPS. So what is good for one of us is good for all of us. To look at another game (I know I know) WoW for example, the 3 specs of warrior. One spec prioritizes stats in the order of 1>2>3>4>5>6, The next is 1>2>3>6>4>5 And the third is 7>6>1>2>8>9. And half of those stats, half of the other classes don’t use at all. This is because they are not all homogenized in role, gear, and basic survivability vs damage ability. while there may be a “This is the best gear for this spec of this class” (number crunching will always exist) There will never ever be a situation where 1 set of gear is best for everyone in that game.

Please don’t take this to mean I want GW2 to be WoW. I’m just trying to show you the real problem here is with how low the diversity level is between classes, bosses, and gear.

colesy.8490:

Morrigan.2809:

cesmode.4257:

Solution.. Remove zerker gear from the game. And Im serious too. You’ll start to see every other build flourish, more diversity, no more elitism, groups accepting everyone, and more group harmony.

This will make a lot of people angry and drive them to quit the game possibly, but Im dead serious.

I can go with this- I really can

and I run Rampager’s on my Engi with a mix of Bezerker and Rampager’s on my Lb/Sb Ranger.

I have been playing a condi built full Carrion GS/Staff Mesmer since launch and I played her for 5 months exclusively.

My husband runs a mix of Knight’s and Valkyrie on a GS/ LB ranger.
the more builds we use the better off the game

Sounds like you want zerker gone so you don’t have to feel bad about using inferior gear.

No I want the attitude gone so I can keep on playing my game.

I don’t give a rats kitten what gear you wear- I just hate the whole zerker or nothing dps or nothing stupid meta that was never intended.

Actually this makes me so angry because every time I log onto my Mesmer people ask me COF p1?

You know what?
I play the game because I like it, not so I can fit my characters into a cookie cut build and run them like robots

Absolutely nothing is stopping you from playing the game you want. It is absurdly easy to find groups that will run with you despite your gear choices.

There is a community of players that want to play the game one way, have fun playing it their way, and believe their way is the best.

Absolutely nothing obliges you to play with them and not playing with them doesn’t suddenly mean you can’t play the game.

I don’t avoid Zerkers, but neither are most of my very very frequent dungeon runs with Zerkers.

You’re angry because they’re saying their way is the best and you don’t believe it. So… can’t you just let them believe what they want and go on your way?

Kirschwasser.3972:

Absolutely nothing is stopping you from playing the game you want. It is absurdly easy to find groups that will run with you despite your gear choices.

There is a community of players that want to play the game one way, have fun playing it their way, and believe their way is the best.

Absolutely nothing obliges you to play with them and not playing with them doesn’t suddenly mean you can’t play the game.

I don’t avoid Zerkers, but neither are most of my very very frequent dungeon runs with Zerkers.

You’re angry because they’re saying their way is the best and you don’t believe it. So… can’t you just let them believe what they want and go on your way?

Yes you are correct and I should not have flipped my lid because really, those are not the people I play with and I don’t care usually

The OP just made me feel it more and the fact that this is the, I don’t know how many, post on the main page about beserker gear since last patch

I just think a Dps or bust Zerker or nothing game is really boring.
I run the gear I do for a reason, not because I don’t know any better.

If everyone’s wearing the same type of gear in dungeons it’s a sure sign something is broken in the design, and it’s quite possible that it’s the content not being difficult enough.

Attacking people who exploit this is stupid. People go for the the quickest, easiest way to do things, naturally.

Mesket.5728:

They should reduce base stats (HP, armor, heal efficiency) and make it scale better with gear.

Zerk players will really be zerk and Risk/Reward balance restored

Actually, that approach wouldn’t balance builds. The suggestion to selectively limit invulnerability frames based on gear choice would come closer to balancing things. What’s the difference if you have 19K health or 14K if you kill the opposing AI before your damage avoidance runs out.

A better approach would be to boost the effect of weapons and skill coefficients on damage (constants) and reduce the effect of the damage stats (variables). This would flatten the damage curve, making it closer to the effectiveness curve of other build choices. One argument against a flatter damage curve would be that min-maxers, and balance devs are in that category, like big numbers. So, the flatter damage curve would have to top out near where all-out damage is now, and the lower end of the curve would have to come up.

With either your or my suggestion, the question would then be, “Is that also good for PvP.” I suspect the answer to both would be, “No.” That’s why I think neither will happen. I also don’t think selective access to mitigation based on build choice will be implemented. Mitigation resources are the devs’ answer to the no pocket healer design decision. Why? Because PvP, coupled with it being a bad idea to have the mechanics of the PvP game get too far away from those of the PvE game.

colesy.8490:

If you remove zerker, people will just move to the second best stat combination.

lfm <insert dungeon run> knights only, ping gear!

I think both the profession and encounter mechanics need to be revamped. Going back to older mmorpgs, zerkers were still there but we didn’t run into this problem because the content was designed around having tanks as well as healers. Yes zerkers do immense damage (in terms of ratio to non-dps specs/classes perhaps even more than in gw2) but the mobs did oh-so-much damage and they (the class/spec) didn’t have a way to mitigate the damage, thus they NEEDED someone to protect them-enter tanks and healers. Here on the other hand…you give that element of protection against damage to all players-including the zerkers…the result? Well…why do you play anything else? The zerker can heal and mitigate damage that it’s usually dependent on tanks and healers for-so beyond role playing or simply wanting to not follow the crowd…there’s not real reason for not going zerker (although I personally don’t go zerker).

For players not content with a) being told how to play or b)playing like everyone else, this is a most infuriating development. Hell at least in the older mmo’s you had three ‘recognized’ choices (dps/tank/heal), here there’s only one. I share a similar sentiment with the OP…guess that’s why I haven’t been playing for too long anymore