Guild Wars 2

I would love for racial skills to more fully integrated into the game. I think tagging all of the racial skills by their appropriate race (Norn, Human, etc.) and giving a racial core specialization would make races and characters feel much more distinct. Moreover, I think that as the game ages, Anet should encourage rolling alternate versions of the same professions. Maybe racial skills could someday even fit into sPVP.

What are people’s thoughts on the idea of a racial core specializations? What would you want to see different races get as traits?

No.

Race should never in any way or form be “useful”. It just stay as fluff.

Doing something like this will eventually require all warriors to be norn, all spellcasters to be asura, all rangers to sylvari and so on, both in PvP and in dungeons/fractals. This is the exact reason why Anet only made races important for looks and story and why Anet made racial skills relatively weak.

Diovid.9506:

Doing something like this will eventually require all warriors to be norn, all spellcasters to be asura, all rangers to sylvari and so on, both in PvP and in dungeons/fractals. This is the exact reason why Anet only made races important for looks and story and why Anet made racial skills relatively weak.

Only for min-maxers and you could make the same argument for class. i.e. if you will be doing PvE dungeon you need to run X class, if you want to WvW need to be X class. Racial skills and traits could be done in a way the provide value, but still allow variety or choice. Not that getting to that point would be immediate, easy, or worth it. All I’m saying is it’s possible.

Diovid.9506:

Doing something like this will eventually require all warriors to be norn, all spellcasters to be asura, all rangers to sylvari and so on, both in PvP and in dungeons/fractals.

The implementation would have to be remarkably lazy for this sort of imbalance to occur.

Britannicus.4782:

Diovid.9506:

Doing something like this will eventually require all warriors to be norn, all spellcasters to be asura, all rangers to sylvari and so on, both in PvP and in dungeons/fractals.

The implementation would have to be remarkably lazy for this sort of imbalance to occur.

I don’t know. I think that no matter how small the differences in power might be, players will still find them and make a big deal out of them. Again, Anet anticipated such behavior and designed races accordingly.

That is terrible idea imo. You like some spec thats norn only but hate playing as giant? Well too bad you are either forced to play a race that you find unapealling or miss on piece of content you would otherwise enjoy. I`d absolutely hate to see some cool spec locked for example for char when I dont like it`s appearance.

In concept it’s an awesome idea, but it can’t ever join PVP imo.

It would have to be a careful balance, though I see no reason not to do something like this so long as it doesn’t make any particular race+profession combo more op than the better half of profession+stat combos are.

But this is something I’d definitely look forward to seeing and would return the idea of sacrificing something to gain something that I feel is being taken out with these changes.

lordkrall.7241:

No.

Race should never in any way or form be “useful”. It just stay as fluff.

Do me a favour and never design a game please? Deliberately gimping an option is bad design, you’re basically setting a trap for unwary player. If an option is going to be there it should have a point otherwise it’s something that needs to be trimmed. An argument I’ve seen may use in favour of the new specialisations system.

Diovid.9506:

Doing something like this will eventually require all warriors to be norn, all spellcasters to be asura, all rangers to sylvari and so on, both in PvP and in dungeons/fractals. This is the exact reason why Anet only made races important for looks and story and why Anet made racial skills relatively weak.

You may have heard of this thing found in the original GW1, and in D&D, the grand-daddy of this and pretty much all computer RPGs called multi-classing. Being mix and match options from different classes doesn’t lead to less diversity it leads to more. Your logic is especially spurious when you consider that Norn Racial skills are summons and transforms, much more spellcaster like abilities, Sylvari racials overlap Rangers, it would be needless duplication and Asura are again summon based,, what class doesn’t benefit from an extra mechanical buddy punching on for them?

Thatkitten Rat.1236:

lordkrall.7241:

No.

Race should never in any way or form be “useful”. It just stay as fluff.

Do me a favour and never design a game please? Deliberately gimping an option is bad design, you’re basically setting a trap for unwary player. If an option is going to be there it should have a point otherwise it’s something that needs to be trimmed. An argument I’ve seen may use in favour of the new specialisations system.

looooooooool
looooooooooooooooool
looool

Regards, the PVP community.

No.

It is funny that people think this would be meta breaking when people generally don’t even take the racial skills in PVE. I think it would be interesting to have add a 6th choice to the core specialization pool, and race would be a fine source for that 6th specialization. Builds will always vie over what works best, and there is always the risk of cookie cutter builds, but that is no reason to throw out variety.

I get that some or many people don’t want race to matter, and I think that is a fair point. Personally, I wish it did matter though.

Critical Lag.9075:

That is terrible idea imo. You like some spec thats norn only but hate playing as giant? Well too bad you are either forced to play a race that you find unapealling or miss on piece of content you would otherwise enjoy. I`d absolutely hate to see some cool spec locked for example for char when I dont like it`s appearance.

As these traits would have to be made for each race specifically and would probably mostly modify racial skills, you wouldn’t actually be missing out on anything.

Terrible idea. I don’t even agree with racial skills being anymore powerful and think cutting them is fair and nothing to qualm over.

Such a specialization will be either so useless its a waste of time to implement, or so useful it forces you to play certain races. I’d hate to have to roll my human Thief as a Norn or Sylvari, or have to roll my Sylvari Ele as a Human or Norn. The race thing should stay as always cosmetic in terms of balance.

A better idea for adding substance to races would be to add prominent points in PvE play or story which change. I.E. Adding alters that humans could pray at around Tyria to their Gods for easing certain events, or adding Asura workstations around Tyria in the same fashion which would summon golem allies temporarily for a nearby meta event etc… You get the idea.

This is a terrible idea, really…
1) You’ll have to choose a race you eventually don’t like because the specialization is great, and that’s not a thing I want in this game. Races should stay like this, only for apparences.

2) Even if the skills are basicly the same and you don’t miss out too much playing an asura over a charr, then the idea itself becomes meaningless, because why not make these specializations neutral from the very beginning?

I think specs should based on your profession and why not achievments (like traits work right now).

PistolWhip.2697:

A better idea for adding substance to races would be to add prominent points in PvE play or story which change. I.E. Adding alters that humans could pray at around Tyria to their Gods for easing certain events, or adding Asura workstations around Tyria in the same fashion which would summon golem allies temporarily for a nearby meta event etc… You get the idea.

Absolutely. More race specific choices in aesthetics, in PVE interactions and achievements but never is core mechanics. The OP’s suggestion is one of the reasons ‘that other game’ fails to win me back. Why would anyone roll a non-Tauran Warrior when they get a free Stomp? Why do I have to roll a Draenei (sp) if I like the game play of the Shaman? These should not be questions players have to ask themselves during character setup, especially new players. Starting from a level field gives players the best set of options at character creation and makes the job of class balancing far easier.

And if you want to be accepted into a pug for dungeons you need to not be a necro

I think that in PvE and WvW, we should get to slot one race skill at all times (i.e. not use one of our regular utility slots for it). Some would probably need a slight tweak to prevent them from being too powerful as an additional slot, but that would keep the spirit of your race alive without being OP (because it is PvE so who cares).

PvP would obviously have to omit that skill slot for balance purposes.

please no kitten no no no

/no thanks

Honestly if I wanted a game where race mattered and being a certain race / profession combo was desirable….oh lookie that….I’d go back to WoW.

I really like that GW2 didn’t follow that recipe. I like that it doesn’t matter what race I am (except to me).

I’ll miss some of the skills, but…

They weren’t that useful, and the transformations were terrible. Hounds of Balthazar and Warband Support were good alternates for my Mesmers, and I’ll really miss Shrapnel Mine and Radiation Field, but there’s no room for most racials in an end-game build.
I imagine some Norn fans would be ticked if the transformations were removed, because lore and such. Poorly executed, low mobility transformations, but they have a place, sort of.

In relation to HoT, just make the racial skills unlocked from the beginning, if they’re kept at all. I like that the racials give extra options that aren’t “build” dependent and some element of cross-class selection, but in the end, they’re not well supported as they could be.

Racial PvE skills are already bad enough as it is.

They should have never been so different. They should have been identical in mechanics, and only look different in visuals.

For example, where a norn would “Become the Bear”, become a werebear and get 5 skills, a human would use “Avatar of Balthazar”, an asura get a “Heavy Combat Suit”, a charr use “Blood Rage” and a sylvari a “Husk Form”, and get a different-looking transformation, and 5 skills that do exactly the same but with completely different visuals.

Any racial specialization would also have to be the same: Identical effects, different visuals, effectively making it a ‘core PvE specialization’ equippable only in PvE and WvW, that affects only PvE skills and mechanics.

Picking a race should be a matter of lore and taste, not part of making a build.

The main problem with this is that one single trait line would have to be compatible with every class, and then repeated five times. This trait line would also have to be devoid of weapon specific buffs and class specific buffs while, most likely, offering very heavy buffs for skills that honestly don’t have a lot in functional commonality. This is especially true when you get to the elite skills.

In what way is a summoned wurm connected to transforming into a bird person? How is an AoE confuse plus retaliation like a summoned golem, or golem transform? How do you design a trait that effects both the Grenth effect and the summoned hounds of Balthazar?

It would be unduly complicated to make it work and also make it worthwhile to use across all classes, while simultaneously remaining an optional extra.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Racial PvE skills are already bad enough as it is.

They should have never been so different. They should have been identical in mechanics, and only look different in visuals.

For example, where a norn would “Become the Bear”, become a werebear and get 5 skills, a human would use “Avatar of Balthazar”, an asura get a “Heavy Combat Suit”, a charr use “Blood Rage” and a sylvari a “Husk Form”, and get a different-looking transformation, and 5 skills that do exactly the same but with completely different visuals.

Any racial specialization would also have to be the same: Identical effects, different visuals, effectively making it a ‘core PvE specialization’ equippable only in PvE and WvW, that affects only PvE skills and mechanics.

Picking a race should be a matter of lore and taste, not part of making a build.

If they were to add a strong set of racial skills and specializations this would be the best way to do it. A great idea in fact. Then it doesn’t matter what race you pick to the game, but it does to how players and you perceive your character, which is awesome.

I do however still think they should go about it in a mechanic environmental way. I also think Classes need this distinction in lore like GW 1 had also. It was one of the best parts for me. Professions openly meant people had opinions on you and the lore was solid. I.E. Necromancy being taboo, or Assassins being on the fine line of moralty and being questioned by other profession’s mentors in the Shing Jea Academy.

Some distinction would be nice flavour to add as polish, and I think the optimum way of doing so would be in PvE adding functions to your race rather than skills, or traits.

There could be secret paths and shortcuts through certain maps only certain races can open for a period perhaps. Maybe the event suggestions I gave above. It would only make sense that a race’s home area and town have positives and maybe even negatives for it?

Humans in Queensdale might aggro centaurs primarily over other races, and Asura might have the same with the Inquest? However humans could also have an innatre speed boost and such in Kryta. (This would all have to be open world of course, where the content for the most part is more so about setting a scene and tone than challenge.) Obviously I haven’t given any of these much thought, I just wanted to make a point that the small atmosphere setting changes that would accumulate into feeling different from one another as races but equal to each other as players would be not only fair but cool.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The main problem with this is that one single trait line would have to be compatible with every class, and then repeated five times. This trait line would also have to be devoid of weapon specific buffs and class specific buffs while, most likely, offering very heavy buffs for skills that honestly don’t have a lot in functional commonality. This is especially true when you get to the elite skills.

One thing to note, it already seems like a lot of weapon-specific traits are going away with the the new specialization system. I only saw a handful left, and they immediate jumped on the idea of changing the guardian shield trait one when they saw it was still around during the live stream.

Where did they post that racial skills are not included? We have been given details about traits but haven’t seen any blogs/postings about changes to skills, just that skills will now be categorized. Anyone have any sources here?

It has been said from the start that something like this will never happen. Racial Skills are there just for fun, that’s all. Anet intentionally made them weaker so they would not affect a player’s choice when deciding what race they should choose.

For those that think this is a great idea, this is not the game for you. Do not try to bring failed ideas from other games into ours. >.<

What they should really do is make all the racial skills the exact same in practicality but different in flavor.

Each one would have a pet summoning skill that is statistically the same but for a Norn is summons like a wolf, for a human it summons a dog, for asura it summons a golem, for charr it summons a charr melee fighter, for sylvari it summons a fern hound or something.

They could also have a transformation skill thats like norn bear form, human grenth reaper, asura jumps into a golem, charr im not sure how to flavor (maybe a small rolling tank or something, and sylvari transform into like a vinewrath husk(yes i know that would need to be written into lore somehow).

They could also have a heal that functions either as jsut a straight amount of health on a 30 second cd or like sylvari where it heals you and grants nearby allies regen. But the flavor of the skill would again be different per race.

Lastly something with the gameplay effect similar to Charr’s Hidden Pistol would be a good choice. A small 900 range damage dealing skill with a short evasion that is also a projectile finish (the most common finish in the game). It would of course be stylized.

This method would allow the skills to be a balanced sent of valid skills regardless of race and could be allowed in sPvP. Certain classes may get better use out of them, but that is easy enough to balance around.

In regards to replay-ability racial skills do add in more depth to the game. Players may choose not to use them but you do see them being used in game play. Some currently do work better together than others in regards to race/class. For people that create alts it adds in more options. Specializations are another attempt at this. Do I want to play a Ranger today or Druid. Your abilities will change but not all of them. Racial skills are kind of the same thing. Since they launched with this idea I haven’t seen anything where they are doing away with them, but maybe I missed something. Not certain about an entire race line, but I was picturing the current abilities still being there but now categorized like elites are being rolled into existing skill types.

As far as PvP, well Scissors is still thinking it should beat Rock so they both nerf Paper.

gaspara.4079:

Each one would have a pet summoning skill that is statistically the same but for a Norn is summons like a wolf, for a human it summons a dog, for asura it summons a golem, for charr it summons a charr melee fighter, for sylvari it summons a fern hound or something.

Nah man we want wolves too… >:C That or it could summon us hellhounds or a cerberus, that works too!

MithranArkanere.8957:

Racial PvE skills are already bad enough as it is.

They should have never been so different. They should have been identical in mechanics, and only look different in visuals.

For example, where a norn would “Become the Bear”, become a werebear and get 5 skills, a human would use “Avatar of Balthazar”, an asura get a “Heavy Combat Suit”, a charr use “Blood Rage” and a sylvari a “Husk Form”, and get a different-looking transformation, and 5 skills that do exactly the same but with completely different visuals.

Any racial specialization would also have to be the same: Identical effects, different visuals, effectively making it a ‘core PvE specialization’ equippable only in PvE and WvW, that affects only PvE skills and mechanics.

Picking a race should be a matter of lore and taste, not part of making a build.

Oh my goodness its nice to see someone else who thinks the same thing!!!

Britannicus.4782:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The main problem with this is that one single trait line would have to be compatible with every class, and then repeated five times. This trait line would also have to be devoid of weapon specific buffs and class specific buffs while, most likely, offering very heavy buffs for skills that honestly don’t have a lot in functional commonality. This is especially true when you get to the elite skills.

One thing to note, it already seems like a lot of weapon-specific traits are going away with the the new specialization system. I only saw a handful left, and they immediate jumped on the idea of changing the guardian shield trait one when they saw it was still around during the live stream.

They’re not going away, they’re being merged. Most of the trait lines are still relevant to at least one weapon.

ESO has specific racial bonuses, and tbh it’s just not fair to implement it this far into the game. I like the fact that there are no specific racial bonuses in gw2. This means I can play whatever I think looks the best without having to suffer for it.

I have a Breton caster in ESO who is now a vampire. At the highest level of vampirism (where you don’t feed), you take +75% damage from fire. This can be negated by being a High Elf, who has a racial bonus of resistance to fire. One could possibly feel “punished” for not being the “right” race for specific things.

Tl;dr other games I’ve played have this feature, and it’s not fun or fair.