Guild Wars 2

I like how a lot of the players who complain that the game is easy and trivial weren’t here on day one.

When the game started pretty much everything in the game was tough.
Since then players have gotten better – and having done the content hundreds of times not only have they become adept at it but have figured out the most effective strategies – which are now being used by new players from day 1 thus creating the false impression that the game is easy.

The game is not the problem – players have just gotten good at it.

The solution is NEW content.

Taygus.4571:

No casual is the way you play, not how long you play it.
Examples. The Sims players are considered casual gamers. They’re not after difficulty or challenges, that doesn’t mean they don’t play for hours on end.

I am a casual players, I can easily sink (life allowing) 30-40/week in gaming. But it’s the way I play that makes me a casual. ie. not being after challenging content, just wanting to ‘walk’ through stuff.

And the next thing you want is a giant button on your screen, that will give you a free precourser per day?

Even Monopoly has no walk through, you can get to jail, or pay on other persons hotels…. thats life.

And I’m pretty sure, that casual doesnt mean walk through, it means “able to use the core mechanic of the game” and understanding, whats going on on the screen -> understanding teamplay and is able to dodge

Jahroots.6791:

A high population is good for the game, period. Makes it easier to find groups, lots of guild activity, socialising in LA and map chat, keeps WvW alive, etc etc.

Even us cheapskates contribute in ways that make the ‘legitimate’ gem shop supporters happy and want to stick around. Everyone wins.

yes, but gw2 still needs to be “earning” x amount, for the game to viable.
Like I said making content harder would lose are a large playerbase anyway.

The question is, would it lose the payers ….and the answer to that, is most likely.

whyme.3281:

Taygus.4571:

I have to overcome difficulties all day in my kittening life, and you think that because you like to “overcome difficulties” the game shouldn’t be for me?? Go play WoW or something.
This game was advertised to be more casual, accept that that is what it is.

And the next thing you want is a giant button on your screen, that will give you a free precourser per day?

Even Monopoly has no walk through, you can get to jail, or pay on other persons hotels…. thats life.

And I’m pretty sure, that casual doesnt mean walk through, it means “able to use the core mechanic of the game” and understanding, whats going on on the screen -> understanding teamplay and is able to dodge

Can’t you express an opposing point of view without becoming so….. hyperbolic?

whyme.3281:

Taygus.4571:

No casual is the way you play, not how long you play it.
Examples. The Sims players are considered casual gamers. They’re not after difficulty or challenges, that doesn’t mean they don’t play for hours on end.

I am a casual players, I can easily sink (life allowing) 30-40/week in gaming. But it’s the way I play that makes me a casual. ie. not being after challenging content, just wanting to ‘walk’ through stuff.

And the next thing you want is a giant button on your screen, that will give you a free precourser per day?

Even Monopoly has no walk through, you can get to jail, or pay on other persons hotels…. thats life.

And I’m pretty sure, that casual doesnt mean walk through, it means “able to use the core mechanic of the game” and understanding, whats going on on the screen -> understanding teamplay and is able to dodge

I never said I wasnt able to dodge, but casual players dont want challenging content. (Its obvious on how popular trains are. )

whyme.3281:

Right now, nearly every boss is 2/10 when stacked and sometimes 10/10 when doing ranged (there are some exceptions), because bosses don’t cast some of their abilities, while in melee range.

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Bosses should get a cleaving attack, to disallow stacking (or make it harder than open field). Right now, you only get benefits out of stacking.

Bosses should do fast auto attacks in between their strong, telegraphed skills, to build up some pressure to the players.

Defiance needs to go, to reward teamplay and a rage mode (3 stuns in 10 seconds) included, to punish skill spamming and stun locking the boss. – In rage mode, the boss gets hard CC immune (can still be slowed), moves faster , deals more damage and attacks faster.

And at least, bosses that requires some sort of coordination, press switches at the right time, to stun the boss otherwise he is immune to damage etc.

Bosses also don’t use some of their abilities while at range (you know, melee attacks). Spider queen use only 1 attack when at range (poison field) and 2 attacks when in melee (immoblize and autoattack).

Ranging bosses is so hard when you keep them crippled/chilled/immobilized permanently. Just kite back and relax with your autoattack turned on.

I’m not sure what OP wants but if you somehow discourage stacking, why would I ever run any supportive build like might stacking ele when the effective range is like 360 and my team is spread out. Shouldn’t I then run fully selfish builds and play like solo with 4 strangers?

Harper.4173:

I like how a lot of the players who complain that the game is easy and trivial weren’t here on day one.

When the game started pretty much everything in the game was tough.
Since then players have gotten better – and having done the content hundreds of times not only have they become adept at it but have figured out the most effective strategies – which are now being used by new players from day 1 thus creating the false impression that the game is easy.

The game is not the problem – players have just gotten good at it.

The solution is NEW content.

probably players are getting better, but in the beginning everyone went into the dungeons with the suggested level and probably green gear, now everyone has exotics or even ascended gear and is going into dungeons with lvl 80.

Yes there is the down scaling and stuff, but that does not compensate your traits and the much better gear. In the low level dungeons your armor also has 2 instead of 3 stats, …

New content wont fix this and the other problems mentioned (stacking, slow attacks, …)

PS: I am a casual player to, no dungeon farming, champ trains, … and i have to say, there is no challenge in GW2. It is to easy and this makes it boring!

You can be a casual player and still enjoy hardcore content.

unleashed.8679:

Harper.4173:

I like how a lot of the players who complain that the game is easy and trivial weren’t here on day one.

When the game started pretty much everything in the game was tough.
Since then players have gotten better – and having done the content hundreds of times not only have they become adept at it but have figured out the most effective strategies – which are now being used by new players from day 1 thus creating the false impression that the game is easy.

The game is not the problem – players have just gotten good at it.

The solution is NEW content.

probably players are getting better, but in the beginning everyone went into the dungeons with the suggested level and probably green gear, now everyone has exotics or even ascended gear and is going into dungeons with lvl 80.

Yes there is the down scaling and stuff, but that does not compensate your traits and the much better gear. In the low level dungeons your armor also has 2 instead of 3 stats, …

New content wont fix this and the other problems mentioned (stacking, slow attacks, …)

PS: I am a casual player to, no dungeon farming, champ trains, … and i have to say, there is no challenge in GW2. It is to easy and this makes it boring!

We do need new content, though. I’d love to play in a Branded dungeon. Just think of the possibilities for armour and weapon skins!

Honestly, I think most players are satisfied with the level of difficulty in dungeons. Just min-maxing and burning down bosses as quickly as possible is pretty fun in itself. The people who think everything is faceroll easy are clearly not joining any PUGs. Ever so often I’ll join a group where 2 or 3 people fail repeatedly in the most basic, straightforward paths.

I don’t think we should make things harder, that would just exclude people and that’s bad for the game, imo. If anything the dungeons need a mechanism for difficulty scaling. Some form of Elite mode where every mob is a tier higher (vets become elites, and so on), maybe remove WPs so that you need to be manually res’d.

haviz.1340:

Bosses also don’t use some of their abilities while at range (you know, melee attacks). Spider queen use only 1 attack when at range (poison field) and 2 attacks when in melee (immoblize and autoattack).

But she tries to get in melee range to cast those skills. And on the other hand, if you are in melee range, there is no poison field under you, that would make the fight harder…..

There is no downside for going into melee range, you ress faster, bosses dont do their strong aoe, buffs are easier shared and only 1 person eats damage most of the time, while the melee damage of the group is higher than ranged damage.

There is no downside for going into melee range and standing next to each other, which is illogical.

haviz.1340:

Ranging bosses is so hard when you keep them crippled/chilled/immobilized permanently. Just kite back and relax with your autoattack turned on.

But it requires active combat, moving, teamplay to apply this cripple etc. I never said, that melee is bad, but the risk vs reward if you compare melee vs range is not equal, which it should be.

haviz.1340:

I’m not sure what OP wants but if you somehow discourage stacking, why would I ever run any supportive build like might stacking ele when the effective range is like 360 and my team is spread out. Shouldn’t I then run fully selfish builds and play like solo with 4 strangers?

Then there is some issue with the radius or something else. This is just one more point, why melee is more effective and more rewarding than ranged, which obvious should not be.

Jahroots.6791:

unleashed.8679:

Harper.4173:

I like how a lot of the players who complain that the game is easy and trivial weren’t here on day one.

When the game started pretty much everything in the game was tough.
Since then players have gotten better – and having done the content hundreds of times not only have they become adept at it but have figured out the most effective strategies – which are now being used by new players from day 1 thus creating the false impression that the game is easy.

The game is not the problem – players have just gotten good at it.

The solution is NEW content.

probably players are getting better, but in the beginning everyone went into the dungeons with the suggested level and probably green gear, now everyone has exotics or even ascended gear and is going into dungeons with lvl 80.

Yes there is the down scaling and stuff, but that does not compensate your traits and the much better gear. In the low level dungeons your armor also has 2 instead of 3 stats, …

New content wont fix this and the other problems mentioned (stacking, slow attacks, …)

PS: I am a casual player to, no dungeon farming, champ trains, … and i have to say, there is no challenge in GW2. It is to easy and this makes it boring!

We do need new content, though. I’d love to play in a Branded dungeon. Just think of the possibilities for armour and weapon skins!

Honestly, I think most players are satisfied with the level of difficulty in dungeons. Just min-maxing and burning down bosses as quickly as possible is pretty fun in itself. The people who think everything is faceroll easy are clearly not joining any PUGs. Ever so often I’ll join a group where 2 or 3 people fail repeatedly in the most basic, straightforward paths.

I don’t think we should make things harder, that would just exclude people and that’s bad for the game, imo. If anything the dungeons need a mechanism for difficulty scaling. Some form of Elite mode where every mob is a tier higher (vets become elites, and so on), maybe remove WPs so that you need to be manually res’d.

That might be a good idea, and let the party decide on the level, an issue would be effort vs reward, what would be fair to add that wouldn’t be unfair on people who aren’t able for hardcore?
Maybe simply more gold, but then Arenanet would have to add another gold sink…. \=

Jahroots.6791:

We do need new content, though. I’d love to play in a Branded dungeon. Just think of the possibilities for armour and weapon skins!

Honestly, I think most players are satisfied with the level of difficulty in dungeons. Just min-maxing and burning down bosses as quickly as possible is pretty fun in itself. The people who think everything is faceroll easy are clearly not joining any PUGs. Ever so often I’ll join a group where 2 or 3 people fail repeatedly in the most basic, straightforward paths.

I don’t think we should make things harder, that would just exclude people and that’s bad for the game, imo. If anything the dungeons need a mechanism for difficulty scaling. Some form of Elite mode where every mob is a tier higher (vets become elites, and so on), maybe remove WPs so that you need to be manually res’d.

Of course we need new content, I didn’t say anything against it, but if this new content is designed like current ones it is going to be bad for the game and the players.

Yes there is tequatl and he is hard to kill, but this is because you need one whole server organised to kill him. It is not possible in smaller groups/guilds because of this silly time limit. It is just brute-forcing him down as fast as possible, while most of the players are stacking right in front of him and a few are defending the turrets. That’s all you have to do, the problem is you need the whole server to work together.

Increasing the hp of the opponents doesn’t make the game harder, it will just getting more boring, because you have to stay for much longer in this silly dungeon. Probably have to dodge one or two more telegraphed attacks and that’s it. It wont change the fact, that brute-force is the way to go (who needs defense, when you can dodge nearly everything?) The whole behavior of the NPCs has to be changed to increase difficulty.

E: and just for few silver more reward, who will stay 30 min longer in a dungeon, doing the same brain-dead “smacking the hell out of the boss” stuff?

These people seem to enjoy the challenge itself, so let ’em take the same rewards as the rest of us. lol.

But I suppose the rewards should be about on par with higher level fractals. Slightly better drops and tokens to exchange for ascended gear and random other account bound goodies.

A truly challenging content should be awarded appropriately.
Level 1-9 Fractals should be at least 5 times less rewarding than Level 40-49.

Jahroots.6791:

These people seem to enjoy the challenge itself, so let ’em take the same rewards as the rest of us. lol.

But I suppose the rewards should be about on par with higher level fractals. Slightly better drops and tokens to exchange for ascended gear and random other account bound goodies.

tbh, fractal reward is the worse in game, you are playing fractals for 1-1,5 hours and get <1,5g there for. Running CoF takes you 5-10 min each way and your get 1g each. Even if it takes your group 45min each way, you will get more gold then the fractal run.

Go pvp for challenge.

I agree completely, but we’re just discussing ways to make regular dungeons more challenging, not Anet’s abysmal reward system. Fractals should at very least reward the same amount of gold as Arah, especially since the update.

whyme.3281:

But she tries to get in melee range to cast those skills. And on the other hand, if you are in melee range, there is no poison field under you, that would make the fight harder…..

She doesn’t. You can stay at 900-1200 range and she will rotate between her poison field (move out, so hard) and her immobilize web which has about 450 range meaning it won’t even hit you yet she will use it (an exploit?).

There is no downside for going into melee range, you ress faster, bosses dont do their strong aoe, buffs are easier shared and only 1 person eats damage most of the time, while the melee damage of the group is higher than ranged damage.

There is no downside for going into melee range and standing next to each other, which is illogical.

The downside is that you have to avoid her immobilize and her autoattacks which inflicts weakness (severe damage and endurance reduction). She also cleaves with her auto and that attack has huge effective arc as well as range (about 300 range with 270 degree effective arc). Her immobilize also cleaves or even is AoE (5 men limit) and can easily destroy glass cannon ele or thief.

But it requires active combat, moving, teamplay to apply this cripple etc. I never said, that melee is bad, but the risk vs reward if you compare melee vs range is not equal, which it should be.

There is no risk in going ranged and spamming your skills applying crowd control skills in the process that the boss cannot remove in any way and in most cases is not immune to. Go melee archdiviner or mossman at 49-50 without guardians and tell me again about melee vs range risk and reward. Because it’s definitely much easier for range players.

If you want better reward for range combat, make bosses more active, give them fast leaps and attacks they will use against ranged players. Right now, ranged combat is a kindergarten. Or just being a leech when melee players have to do the entire job.

Then there is some issue with the radius or something else. This is just one more point, why melee is more effective and more rewarding than ranged, which obvious should not be.

If something is more risky, it should be more rewarding and effective.

I have a proposition for you. If you play on EU server, let me invite you for a single fractal run without guardians. We’ll both find out what is more risky and rewarding.

unleashed.8679:

It wont change the fact, that brute-force is the way to go (who needs defense, when you can dodge nearly everything?).

Dodge is an active defense. It’s ironic you call dodging attacks a brute-force when passive defense could be considered a real brute-force.

haviz.1340:

unleashed.8679:

It wont change the fact, that brute-force is the way to go (who needs defense, when you can dodge nearly everything?).

Dodge is an active defense. It’s ironic you call dodging attacks a brute-force when passive defense could be considered a real brute-force.

I call using zerker gear, for maximum damage with zero defense, brute force. Because with this you smack the hell out of your foe. Just this raw power thing, you know

Defense is maxing vitality, toughness and probably healing power in combination with regeneration and protection, so you can survive several hits.

Of course dodging is a defensive action, but it is not effected by your choice of gear and traits (except of vigor) it is just there to be used

unleashed.8679:

I call using zerker gear, for maximum damage with zero defense, brute force. Because with this you smack the hell out of your foe. Just this raw power thing, you know

Defense is maxing vitality, toughness and probably healing power in combination with regeneration and protection, so you can survive several hits.

Of course dodging is a defensive action, but it is not effected by your choice of gear and traits (except of vigor) it is just there to be used

That’s why people use guardians and mesmers? To ignore every other defense mechanic? Berserker’s team use protection as much as your “ideal” party do, probably even more.

Your idea of defense is just passive one, a reactive. I would advise you some time to familiarize yourself with the concept of active defense. I guess blocks are also just there to be used and aren’t part of defense. Let’s heal and tank.

Eleir.9325:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

If you increase the difficulty or boss mechanics of the dungeons the casuals will not touch it. Look at Marionette/tequatl/wurm, possible to be beaten, but the casual/carebear community could not handle it and they gave up.

The mentality of the easy goer casual or pve carebear is this. " If I want something and the content is too hard, I will just go and champ train until I farmed enough gold to buy it off the TP".

That is a very good point, but at the same time. I believe difficulty would just weed out people who aren’t really meant to play Gw2. A game should be about overcoming difficulties, not getting your hand held through a tiny little RNG generator. As is that is what GW2 is right now. A giant RNG generator with pretty lights and buttons.

It’s not like the Spider Queen was all that hard to begin with. But AC is the first dungeon in the game and perhaps should be a bit easier. But it should Not be possible to breeze over by stacking!!

The Dungeons in the game are already easy. The Story modes are generally even more so! The semi-causal and casual players have their content. The people who have played the game for quite some time and that are looking for a challenge has none to find!

Adding much more challenging dungeons (Or perhaps creating a Heroic/Challenge -path for each existing one) would not only make this part of the playerbase very, very happy. I think that it would also add an element of grandeur and awe; hearing about this relatively extremely challenging encounters and seeing players wearing armor and titles as proof that they’ve conquered them! They didn’t do tedious grind for hundreds of hours.
I think that the game would seem bigger and more epic if we had this content.

Jahroots.6791:

yayuuu.9420:

There’s a simple solution that can prevent players from stacking, which I should probably start doing asap, because I don’t want to play with people who stack, so in future I’ll be sure to create parties with this in mind.

FTFY.

Also, I think this is the thread for you.

The thing that I won’t do it will not change the fact, that (let’s call it by name) players are cheating. It doesn’t work as intended, it’s not how the game was designed to play, it kills role diversity, it favors only few classes that can push the wall, it favors only zerker, because you won’t get much damage during kitten fight. I can go on like this, but the point is that cheaters will earn 5x more gold than I do playing without cheats.

yayuuu.9420:

Jahroots.6791:

yayuuu.9420:

There’s a simple solution that can prevent players from stacking, which I should probably start doing asap, because I don’t want to play with people who stack, so in future I’ll be sure to create parties with this in mind.

FTFY.

Also, I think this is the thread for you.

The thing that I won’t do it will not change the fact, that (let’s call it by name) players are cheating. It doesn’t work as intended, it’s not how the game was designed to play, it kills role diversity, it favors only few classes that can push the wall, it favors only zerker, because you won’t get much damage during kitten fight. I can go on like this, but the point is that cheaters will earn 5x more gold than I do playing without cheats.

I don’t consider it a cheat. The combo field range, for example, suggests that players are meant to use melee attacks and stay close to each other.

The terms ‘not being played as intended’ and ‘way the game was designed’ keep getting thrown around in these threads, but dungeon design heavily favours high DPS parties. Spec for anything else and you really just end up wasting time.

There’s no trinity here so role diversity is extremely limited. Pretty much just DPS with a side of either support or control abilities. Tanking, holding aggro… these things do not exist in GW2.

Also, you want to talk about using exploitative tactics to earn gold, take it up with the TP players. The dungeon runners barely make in a week what they spend on listing fees every hour, lol.

Guild Wars 2 is challenging enough for me to enjoy it, and I do find it challenging. I’m an older gentleman (I use the term ‘gentleman’ loosely) that never really got into console games. I play the MMORPG style of game for the social aspect of it, knowing fully well that in combat, I am less than stellar. I’m currently working on a dual-pistol thief, which I’m finding very challenging, since my kiting skills are horrible, and the style of play this thief has warrants having to kite. I’m enjoying every minute of it, even though I die more than I probably should.

The only level 80 character I have currently is a necromancer, and I utilized minions due to the fact that they made my job easier. However, I still found certain situations difficult, and I worked through them.

On top of everything else, there is a LOT to learn in this game, through all aspects of the game, from map completion to combat to crafting. There is a rather still information learning curve to the game, and I enjoy that.

Basically, I can find a challenge whenever and wherever I want in the game. It’s all there, and I’m finding it very fun.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

QFT

There really ins’t a good way to describe ‘casual’ vs ‘hardcore’ since it does vary a bit from person to person.

One person will classify ‘casual’ as anyone that can’t sink 8+ hours a day into the game.
Another will classify casual as someone that desires to simply play for fun.
Another may classify casual as someone that simply wants to enjoy some ‘easy mode’ content.
Some classify casuals as anyone that doesn’t play pvp.

Trying to label groups in a black and white manner simply doesn’t work (and really just shouldn’t be done). There truly are too many variables that create a grey area. Human beings and their actions really aren’t that simple.

Personally, I would consider myself a ‘casual’ player. I put in between 12 and 20 hours a week. I do dungeons. I do Teq, Wurm, and Marionette. I enjoy a challenge. Do occasionally stick my nose into wvw or spvp from time to time (only to endure some absolutely terrible verbal abuse which chases me away for a bit, but that’s neither here nor there for this convo). By other people’s definitions, that might define me as more ‘hardcore’ than ‘casual’ because I do enjoy a challenge. Because I do think about my build and my gear; though not to the extent of most min-maxers. Where as to some serious min-max speed runners, I’m a casual ‘carebear’ because I don’t min max. Because I don’t speed run. Because I don’t play the stack and smack gimmick.

Everyone sees it differently.

Put it this way.
How about labelling games causal/hardcore. Thats easier right?
This Sims, Fable, Angry Birds..none of these would be considered hardcore…and neither will their players. Of course there are some that can enjoy both, but this is uncommon.
Casual players generally prefer casual games.

Now what makes these games casual? One reason is they’re ‘come and go’ games, jump in when you want, stuff don’t take major hours to complete. Do what you want, the challenges are minimal.
Even as far as Dragon Age Easy , or DA on a harder setting, would you not say the player on the higher difficulty is more hardcore than the player using easy?

Yes hardcore/casual definition can change per player, but less so per game. And this then somewhat defines what a player is.
Guild Wars 2 is a casual game.
There are many players here who never played another MMO, many who only play GW2. There also many who haven’t played others games or such. This is for the casual players. I would say more so then in other MMO’s
You don’t often see them in the forum, because they are happy, satisfied and challenged enough by the content in game.

Like the game for what it is… don’t try to change it to match other MMO’s.

Taygus.4571:

Put it this way.
How about labelling games causal/hardcore. Thats easier right?
This Sims, Fable, Angry Birds..none of these would be considered hardcore…and neither will their players. Of course there are some that can enjoy both, but this is uncommon.
Casual players generally prefer casual games.

Now what makes these games casual? One reason is they’re ‘come and go’ games, jump in when you want, stuff don’t take major hours to complete. Do what you want, the challenges are minimal.
Even as far as Dragon Age Easy , or DA on a harder setting, would you not say the player on the higher difficulty is more hardcore than the player using easy?

Yes hardcore/casual definition can change per player, but less so per game. And this then somewhat defines what a player is.
Guild Wars 2 is a casual game.
There are many players here who never played another MMO, many who only play GW2. There also many who haven’t played others games or such. This is for the casual players. I would say more so then in other MMO’s
You don’t often see them in the forum, because they are happy, satisfied and challenged enough by the content in game.

Like the game for what it is… don’t try to change it to match other MMO’s.

My entire point was that we really shouldn’t be trying to label groups and then stuff people into them. Stereotyping is wrong. Period.

I was pointing out how the definition changes based on the person. It didn’t really have anything to do with whether or not the game itself was ‘casual’ or not. You do have ‘hardcore’ players even in the most ‘casual’ of games, if you want to step back and think about it. Even in such ‘casual’ games as Farmville or Angry Birds.

Stil, not sure where the heck you got the rest of the stuff, but hey let’s go with it.

Fable, Angry Birds… those are different types of games. Very different than a MMO. So trying to compare an angry bird player to a wow player is kind of like trying to compare an apple to an orange. Now, that is not to say that the WoW player doesn’t play angry birds. He (or she) very well might; however, they do so for very different reasons and with very different expectations.

I do agree that GW2 (for the most part) is a casual game. That was sort of how they sold themselves to begin with. “If you’ve never played a MMO, you’ll love GW2” etc., and it does present itself as such. The casual player can put it down and pick it back up as they please. Obviously there is a lot of debate in regard to that specific topic, but that’s not this conversation.

Beyond that, games compete with other games within their genre. They have to, to stay competitive. To keep people inclined to play. If people weren’t inclined to play, they wouldn’t be inclined to spend money, then the business loses a chunk of it’s income. So, to some extent, it’s going to borrow from other games…usually the things the players call for the loudest or are proven to be well loved. Additionally, they will need to do their own ‘thing’ to make them different, unique. I do agree that we should like a game for what it is, but it’s sort of unrealistic to believe its not going to adapt features from the competition that players are known to like. Yes, it can go too far, I won’t disagree with that either, but I don’t think there are really that many trying to turn GW2 into WoW 2.0 for example. (They have wildstar for that anyway)

Jahroots.6791:

yayuuu.9420:

Jahroots.6791:

yayuuu.9420:

There’s a simple solution that can prevent players from stacking, which I should probably start doing asap, because I don’t want to play with people who stack, so in future I’ll be sure to create parties with this in mind.

FTFY.

Also, I think this is the thread for you.

The thing that I won’t do it will not change the fact, that (let’s call it by name) players are cheating. It doesn’t work as intended, it’s not how the game was designed to play, it kills role diversity, it favors only few classes that can push the wall, it favors only zerker, because you won’t get much damage during kitten fight. I can go on like this, but the point is that cheaters will earn 5x more gold than I do playing without cheats.

I don’t consider it a cheat. The combo field range, for example, suggests that players are meant to use melee attacks and stay close to each other.

The terms ‘not being played as intended’ and ‘way the game was designed’ keep getting thrown around in these threads, but dungeon design heavily favours high DPS parties. Spec for anything else and you really just end up wasting time.

There’s no trinity here so role diversity is extremely limited. Pretty much just DPS with a side of either support or control abilities. Tanking, holding aggro… these things do not exist in GW2.

Also, you want to talk about using exploitative tactics to earn gold, take it up with the TP players. The dungeon runners barely make in a week what they spend on listing fees every hour, lol.

Have you seen the videos that I have posted before? If not, watch them and tell it to developers looking in their eyes, that killing boss in 5 seconds is not cheating. Then we can talk…

Missed those earlier, just went to have a look. Holy kitten that was awesome!

Its also a far, far cry from the typical dungeon run. 1500+ hours of game time and I have never seen anyone do anything quite like that. But then, I’d also not call that cheating so much as a ‘display of skill’, and I don’t think that anything a player is able to do using only their skills while playing the game (no add-ons or code manipulation) can be considered unfair. If the devs don’t like it, they’ll patch it (which has been the case with a lot of content).

Weird how that video upsets you, and I just wanna try it for myself, lol.

Jahroots.6791:

Missed those earlier, just went to have a look. Holy kitten that was awesome!

Its also a far, far cry from the typical dungeon run. 1500+ hours of game time and I have never seen anyone do anything quite like that. But then, I’d also not call that cheating so much as a ‘display of skill’, and I don’t think that anything a player is able to do using only their skills while playing the game (no add-ons or code manipulation) can be considered unfair. If the devs don’t like it, they’ll patch it (which has been the case with a lot of content).

Weird how that video upsets you, and I just wanna try it for myself, lol.

Ofc, you don’t need any external programs to do it, but calling it “display of skill” is not correct for sure, as it requires way less skill than killing boss without it. All you need in party is 2-3 elementalists and full zerker party. What’s the point of defense if you can kill boss in few seconds?

Elementalists were always the strongest class against big enemies, but since you can push the corner, it hits small enemies as hard as big enemies, with the difference, that big enemies are usually designed to take much more damage because of their large HP pool.

If it’s not an exploit, but the game is designed like this, then
what’s the point of other classes?
what’s the point of other armor sets (not zerkers)?
what’s the point of enemies being big or small?

Imo this have to be fixed asap or it will kill the game.

The game is too easy but why would you change that? There is this “you are not forced to do anything” mentality in GW2 which resulted in highly optional and even frivolous – at times- end game achievements.
Dungeons only give you 2 things: a solid gold / hour ratio and exo gear. Both can be found outside of dungeons to keep them optional. If you make dungeons harder, it will only result in frustration because ‘grinding’ is already annoying but grinding difficult content is BS. Especially since people will just turn to tradingpost and crafting /material selling to preserve their efficiency.
+ It would require rework of many many PvE mechanics, which I tried to discuss in my thread, which has also been erased for some reason O.o…. or perhaps it’s bugged?

TL&DR You can’t make dungeons harder because GW2 offers no reward for difficult content and they’re going to be skipped completely anyway.

yayuuu.9420:

Jahroots.6791:

Missed those earlier, just went to have a look. Holy kitten that was awesome!

Its also a far, far cry from the typical dungeon run. 1500+ hours of game time and I have never seen anyone do anything quite like that. But then, I’d also not call that cheating so much as a ‘display of skill’, and I don’t think that anything a player is able to do using only their skills while playing the game (no add-ons or code manipulation) can be considered unfair. If the devs don’t like it, they’ll patch it (which has been the case with a lot of content).

Weird how that video upsets you, and I just wanna try it for myself, lol.

Ofc, you don’t need any external programs to do it, but calling it “display of skill” is not correct for sure, as it requires way less skill than killing boss without it. All you need in party is 2-3 elementalists and full zerker party. What’s the point of defense if you can kill boss in few seconds?

Elementalists were always the strongest class against big enemies, but since you can push the corner, it hits small enemies as hard as big enemies, with the difference, that big enemies are usually designed to take much more damage because of their large HP pool.

If it’s not an exploit, but the game is designed like this, then
what’s the point of other classes?
what’s the point of other armor sets (not zerkers)?
what’s the point of enemies being big or small?

Imo this have to be fixed asap or it will kill the game.

What you don’t understand, is that things like that rarely ever happen, and showing us a video of a dungeon guild having a laugh trying to burst Kholer down as fast as possible really won’t kill the game considering your average group will never, ever be able to do it as simple as it may look on the video.

To answer your questions, the point of other classes is their unique buffs. A balanced dungeon party is required for a smooth run. Sure, you can stack eles, but waiting until FGS comes off cooldown and skipping with a full party of 11k glass cannons will take longer than just killing with a regular party. Warriors offer offensive buffs like banners, vuln stacking and FGJ, guardians have aegis, reflect, protection and vuln stacking. The former three for the guard are great for enabling the party to DPS uninterrupted in the first place and to let them complete skill rotations. Rangers can offer spotter, frost spirit and projectile reflection. Thieves offer extremely high DPS, blast finishers and stealth. The two exceptions are engineer and necro. Necro support is generally just bad and ANet probably need to take a real good look at it, and the engineer is a class that becomes worse the better a group is. If a group can stack vuln and might, they aren’t needed. If a group has a thief, engi smoke field isn’t needed. If a group has a ranger or ele for a water field … you don’t need an engi.

The point of other armour sets in my opinion is for two reasons:

First (in my opinion) – training wheels. To allow people to become familiar with content with more defensive gear. People don’t like dying so some people react by buffing their defenses to soak up hits. Second – roleplay diversity. As much as ANet wanted to do away with the trinity, there are people insistent on being healers or tanks, and stat combinations like soldier, sentinel, cleric and maybe zealot are pretty much a half measure in an attempt to assuage that crowd.

And the point of larger and smaller enemies is because there’s a range of different enemies in the game. Some humanoid, some creature. The game in my opinion sorely lacks creatures (exhibit #1 – Lupicus) and has a lot of upscaled humanoids as bosses.

@hendo: ofc, PUGs are not bursting bosses like this, because not everyone knows about it, but still, 1-2 players in PUG are using it and they want everyone to be stacked in the corner, because stacking in one place is more rewarding than punishing. It’s easier to kill most of the bosses while stacked in the corner and just pressing 12345. This kind of passive playstyle should punish players. Otherwise there’s no point to run, dodge, just stand in one place and 12345.

I can assure you, that I PUG on my warrior and I whenever I see eles they’re always incapable of might stacking and are more likely to drop an ice bow than an FGS.

It would be great if you could record a boss kill while everyone presses 12345 too, I see a lot of people claim this but never provide evidence. Examples are the three champion golems in SE p1, LoS them to a corner and dont use utilities, just 12345 and record. Then there’s rumblus (LoS, not that weird afk range spot people like to use) or ghost eater. Even better, record yourself 12345’ing against Alphard in Arah p2 when you’ve LoS’d her.

When people make these bold claims I just want to see video evidence of it, because my experience is that when I run in premades, we co-ordinate our skills and make careful use of utilities enabling us to blitz through content, while pugs just mash keys (exhibit #1 – the whirling axe warrior) and either wipe or kill things a lot slower because they lack the self control or even knowledge of how to play efficiently.

Players don’t want hard content. They wanna get rewards fast and easy as possible. I wouldn’t say that dungeons are that easy if you go with group that doesn’t know all exploits.

Junkpile.7439:

Players don’t want hard content. They wanna get rewards fast and easy as possible. I wouldn’t say that dungeons are that easy if you go with group that doesn’t know all exploits.

That’s only half right.

Players don’t want to have to do hardcore content for their rewards.
Players want rewards as fast as possible when they’re playing FOR rewards.

But if you’ve pretty much got everything you want – you’re going to want to do something fun.

You can provide incentive for players to do hardcore content by giving UNIQUE rewards. Bragging rights.
Players will usually want to do hardcore content ( at least once) in order to get the shinies – the unique rewards, the titles, the achievements and then use these to boost their ego – " I did x content, which you haven’t, I’m somehow better than you". Yes that’s a thing and it’s a thing that happens.

Vanity is very important in a cosmetically, skin-driven economy – so give us hardcore content but with PROPER rewards.

hendo.1940:

I can assure you, that I PUG on my warrior and I whenever I see eles they’re always incapable of might stacking and are more likely to drop an ice bow than an FGS.

It would be great if you could record a boss kill while everyone presses 12345 too, I see a lot of people claim this but never provide evidence. Examples are the three champion golems in SE p1, LoS them to a corner and dont use utilities, just 12345 and record. Then there’s rumblus (LoS, not that weird afk range spot people like to use) or ghost eater. Even better, record yourself 12345’ing against Alphard in Arah p2 when you’ve LoS’d her.

When people make these bold claims I just want to see video evidence of it, because my experience is that when I run in premades, we co-ordinate our skills and make careful use of utilities enabling us to blitz through content, while pugs just mash keys (exhibit #1 – the whirling axe warrior) and either wipe or kill things a lot slower because they lack the self control or even knowledge of how to play efficiently.

You are mentioning “these” bosses, while I can record how I do 12345 with other bosses in the corner.
AC Spider – 12345 in the corner
CM last boss p3 – 12345 between the barrels
SE p3 last boss – 12345 in the corner behind the pillar
COF p1 first boss – push him to the wall and 12345

I could give you more examples, but I’m not playing dungeons so much, because of this. I’m usually doing fractals, but unfortunately players are starting to bring their lame gamestyle to them (aetherblade retreat fractal is a good example, especially the place where you can stay in the corner and not get any damage from the cannons).

I insist, please record yourself 12345’ing spider queen, destroyer of worlds and slave driver. No utility skills allowed. No dodging allowed. Since you mentioned those fights (as you felt the examples I gave weren’t good enough) it should be easy. haven’t done CM that much so I have no idea what boss that is.

Sure, I’ll post video of spider queen today (when I return home).

Edit: Hah, I have even better idea, I’ll make a video how I 11111111 solo spider queen. Just wait until I come back home…

I wait eagerly.

And do it in berserker gear since people are so insistent in claiming you can just 11111 zerk everything down.

I honestly feel like this game is making me bad at other games due to the general ease of gameplay.

I only have to remember 15 keybinds here, when I played wow it was 50+ per character.

I also view FPS as a poor game mechanic as it lowers players ability to work cooperatively and have differentiating reaction times to various response; TLDR fps games produce bad players; I feel like GW2 is having the same effect.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Look at Marionette/tequatl/wurm,

Marionette can be done with a large guild of say 80 people. Same for tequatl.

Wurm? How many total wurm kills across every server are there? No more than 15?

The reason why people are leaving servers and going to t1 servers is because of the amount of players available at any given time. How many people are guesting to blackgate to kill tequatl? How many to “try” to kill wurm?

I’ve been saying this since the rework of tequatl. If they continue to re-vamp world bosses and make them harder people are going to stop doing them because of the time it takes to organize and do them. I can’t tell you the last time yaks bend has killed tequatl but I’m willing to bet it was around the time he was reworked. Making stuff harder? Sure. Making things more difficult than they should be because you want people to have a challenge in pve that requires the other 100+ people in the same server/overflow is just bad content design. Especially for open world stuff.

yayuuu.9420:

Sure, I’ll post video of spider queen today (when I return home).

Edit: Hah, I have even better idea, I’ll make a video how I 11111111 solo spider queen. Just wait until I come back home…

Yes, please. Finally, someone comes in and show me the light. I’m super excited. None of those stackers would explain me how 1111 works. They just ask me to dodge, which is stupid. Why should I?

Dalris Thane.6314:

I’m “that guy”

HAHA! Why did you put this post in this thread? Its worthy enough of its own thread with that title.

Unlike the super elite of this thread I recognize the game can be challenging to a lot of people.
I’m always pugging the dungeons and even in these “facerolls” dungeons like cof p1, hotw p1 or SE p1 people die for some reasons.
I did daily Arah p3 for the armor, and I’ve seen let’s say 80% of the time, at least 1 person dying at Lupicus always for some reasons. In the worst case I’m always the last man standing and ready to escape when I see 4 dead people.
So yeah, I maybe don’t really feel challenged but I won’t say the game is that as easy as the elites who never pug, want to make you believe.

Taygus.4571:

Put it this way.
How about labelling games causal/hardcore. Thats easier right?
This Sims, Fable, Angry Birds..none of these would be considered hardcore…and neither will their players. Of course there are some that can enjoy both, but this is uncommon.
Casual players generally prefer casual games.

The Sims. With Sims 2 and Sims 3, I’d definitely say there are hard core Sims players. So I wouldn’t say that labeling games as hardcore/casual is easy.

There are Simmers out there who spend HOURS and days setting up a neighborhood where they have found or made mods to make the game harder and more realistic. Then spend ages updating Excel spreadsheets with the data of the Sims in their neighborhood. And the population can very quickly multiply.

Then there are the players who play challenges designed for the game. And some of them require tons of tracking and there is one that people have designed Excel spreadsheets to keep track of things. With formulas and everything so that if you put in that Johnny maxed a skill he has unlocked the ability to enter Y career.

Then there are the players who don’t even really play the game as it was intended. They play the game to build houses. And some of them have gotten very skilled given the tools in the game. And they’ll spend days perfecting one house where each day they spend hours on it.

To answer the OP’s question: I find that GW2 has the right amount of challenge for me. It’s not too easy, but it’s not too hard.

Except it’s not the elites who never pug who are claiming it’s faceroll, it’s people who pug all the time who are claiming it’s just 111111111 despite that being completely untrue. I know from running with the guild I’m in that our runs are only so faceroll because we’re experienced, optimised and are speaking over voice comms so we can call out things quick should something go wrong.

I have slow reaction speed, bad timing, and it’s hard for me to see what some monsters are doing, so this game is very challenging for me.

hendo.1940:

Except it’s not the elites who never pug who are claiming it’s faceroll, it’s people who pug all the time who are claiming it’s just 111111111 despite that being completely untrue. I know from running with the guild I’m in that our runs are only so faceroll because we’re experienced, optimised and are speaking over voice comms so we can call out things quick should something go wrong.

I have just 11111’d spider queen, uploading video atm.
Ofc it’s not in berserker, because it’s not possible to SOLO 1111 it in ZERKER!
But, it is possible to 12345 him with berserker in full party in the corner.

Edit: kitten it, video too long ;D
I have to speed it up a bit, so it will take a while, be patient please

Proof that spider queen is 111111-soloable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNMltxyvAvo