Guild Wars 2

New update looks good, looking forward to the new stuff!

Ari Kagura.9182:

I think this might be interesting.

Some things to consider: Ascended is a new “rarity” of gear instead of a new “tier” of a current quality. Meaning that Ascended should be treated as its own quality level instead of “Tier 1 Exotic”, “Tier 2 Exotic”, “Tier 10 Exotic”, and so on. Ascended is also exclusive to level 80, whereas Exotic starts somewhere around late 60’s. It’s just another thing to look forward to when you reach max level. Vertical in a way, yes, but I’m not surprised that this would be implemented, considering that GW2 has attracted way more than just the old GW1 crowd. ANet had to find a way to please those who have came from other MMOs with similar gear mechanics. I’m just hoping it doesn’t go overboard with “tier gear” under fancier names instead of the typical numbered tier system.

If anything, you should start worrying if/when ANet would introduce “Tier 2 Ascended” items.

Personally I’m waiting for the “legendary” armor, and how they’re going to overcome that one. Super Legendary? INTRODUCING TURBOLEGENDARY: The 67th new item level. Are you all enjoying your not-gear treadmill?

Jack of Tears.9458:

Apparen’ly while I was out playin’ the game, the sky fell down.

nope it’s a fresh new dawn!

quidgy.1483:

I understand people are angry/disappointed/annoyed, but why are so many of you being so melodramatic?

I don’t like the idea of gear grind or forcing us to have certain gear to experience certain content but threatening to quit or demanding a refund based on a blog post is really over the top.

Because the lack of a gear grind was the main focus and marketing point for this game. It’s the main idea that brought most of us here. Were it not for that many of us would still be playing our old games. So going back on the one idea that made this game is certainly something to be upset about.

quidgy.1483:

I understand people are angry/disappointed/annoyed, but why are so many of you being so melodramatic?

I don’t like the idea of gear grind or forcing us to have certain gear to experience certain content but threatening to quit or demanding a refund based on a blog post is really over the top.

Many of us looked forward to this game specifically because of the level playing field where your skill as a player mattered more than the gear your character has.

Here we are 3 months later and the gear progression begins.

Add my name to the list of players who are immensely unhappy about this change and the implication, clear from Lindsey’s post, that it’s only the first increase in gear stats.

I bought the game in part to get away from the very idea of “progression”. With every increase in stats, all new content will be balanced with the new stats in mind, and will be harder to play without the higher-stat gear. Eventually as stats creep up, new content will be impossible without the new gear; the stat creep will be mandatory for anyone who wants to play the whole game.

I am aghast that ArenaNet could cater to the people who wanted to change the game into something that so many of us thought, with eager encouragement from ArenaNet, was going to be fundamentally different in so many ways.

I am seriously questioning whether I will continue playing this game in the long term. Please, please, ArenaNet, reconsider. Make the new stat ceiling applicable only in the dungeon for which you say it’s intended. Keep the old one everywhere else, from now into perpetuity. Don’t betray the trust we put in you.

Guild Wars was my first MMO after playing Runescape in the computer lab during middle school. I still remember a lot of what made the game great. I was never behind on gear progression and after just a short while, my brand new character was up to par and I was able to hold my own against people who had been playing for months.

Then I started playing WoW. Not going to lie, I pretty much dropped Guild Wars for years at that point. It was great at first, a whole world that was uninstanced. Then, you realize that your gear grind sets in. Oh, those first dungeon sets only had an extra 5 or 10 points, but suddenly they’re not as good since there’s a new dungeon. Next thing you know, you’re pulling all nighters because you can’t do that next raid without getting better gear.

It might start with one or two points, but in a year where will we be at? A nice extra 50 to top thing off?

I really like Guild Wars 2. Me posting on the official forums for an MMO should show that, since I normally avoid these things like the plague.

Don’t turn this in to just another gear grind MMO when you’ve already accomplished so much. For what it’s worth, I cancelled my WoW subscription a few days after buying Guild Wars 2. If I’m suddenly not good enough for group play because I didn’t grind out the last tier, then I’m done with the game.

This is the last MMO I’m going to play. Please don’t screw it up.

I’m mad, I’ll save you the trouble of asking.

I won’t write a wall of text, pleading Anet to rethink this decision, because it’s already in the wild, and can’t be undone this close to patch day. I won’t ask for a refund, because I’ve enjoyed the months I’ve had with this game before this. I’ll just want to ask one question.

Why?

Hmm, well I can of like the idea honestly. I don’t think it would actually turn GW2 into a gear grind game at all. Right now I’m almost full exotic, and I have no idea what I’m to do after I’m full exotic. Just because they’re adding new gear doesn’t mean it’s going to be a grind. I enjoy earning my exotics, and it gives the game purpose IMO. Unless it’s something stupid like the only way you can obtain it is by looting it off a mob in the dungeon with the loot chance being that of a precursor, I wouldn’t mind too much.

fixit.7189:

Lol, this won’t keep the gear grind guys around anyways. They will have their full set in a few days then they will go back to complaining and or back to that other game. Honestly, why listen to them? Why??!

I’ll never understand why devs of any game don’t understand this. They simply cannot keep enough new content coming for the people who blow through it in two days. Gear grinds exist in plenty of other games. This one does not and should not try to compete with WoW for numbers. It’s got a good niche that’s making money.

bcbully.7289:

Jack of Tears.9458:

Apparen’ly while I was out playin’ the game, the sky fell down.

nope it’s a fresh new dawn!

if by “fresh new dawn” you mean the same exact feature we’ve been “enjoying” since Everquest.

quidgy.1483:

I understand people are angry/disappointed/annoyed, but why are so many of you being so melodramatic?

I don’t like the idea of gear grind or forcing us to have certain gear to experience certain content but threatening to quit or demanding a refund based on a blog post is really over the top.

Is it really? They’re going against what makes Guild Wars Guild Wars. They’re taking all of the promises, all of the amazing things that were meant to separate this game from conventional MMO’s and burning it to the ground. There are many of us who have been waiting for this game since 2007, following every update, magazine article and blog, and to say that this game hasn’t been an utter disappointment is an under exaggeration. It’s like what Peter Moleneux promised for the original fable.

I’m concerned about this as well, even though I don’t have a legendary myself. It seems like a critical oversight given that we’re encouraged to transmute items.

Adding my voice to the “disappointed to see gear grinding and power creep 3 months into the game” crowd.

Arghh, so immensely frustrating. You can spin this however you like, but this is a straightup reversal of what I thought was a major selling point of this game. This is how I advertised the game to my friends!

It’s just such a downer. I really like this game, and I really don’t like any part of striving for ascended items. I was really looking forward to a dungeon that challenged me to play with more and more skill, not work myself up to more and more stats.

You’d think they’d have learned from GW1 (and the PvP side of things) that power creeps kill games. It killed their fledgling e-sport in its prime when they introduced the power creep known as Factions. Then followed it up with a brutal swing from Nightfall. And nailed in the final nail with EotN.

everydaygamer.2613:

only mmo where people complain when new gear is added.

Yeah, and why? Because this MMO was supposed to be different. For the people who dislike traditional MMO’s. And what happens now? Not 3 months after release it’s turning into a traditional MMO with a gear threadmill.

everydaygamer.2613:

only mmo where people complain when new gear is added.

Because many people are (were) playing this game specifically because they were told there would not be a gear treadmill. It’s bait and switch, which is illegal, but they’ve spun it enough where no one can do anything about it.

This is STUPID. I bought the game on the promise on no end game gear stats progression. That GW2 will be different that other MMOs and that a game I can play without the need to grind gear.

Now 3 months after release, there are new gear. Aka gear progression/power creep. I have spent hours playing dungeons for exotic items to look good based on this promise. Now all my work is worthless. All my tokens are worthless, my efforts were for nothing. This is the reason why I do not grind in WoW or other games, because you gear stats will be worthless in a few months time. And now this is coming to GW2, in only 3 months. This is a total turn about such short a time.

ANet has simply lied to us. I for one do not have the energy to grind new gear again because I have too or else I cannot play content. I hate grinding for stats. If I grind for looks, it is another thing. I still cannot believe how Anet has gone back on it’s promise, just because of some whiny people that should not be playing this game in the first place.

Seriously … What is going to happen to all the dungeons now the ascended is out? Already PvE is a barren waste land. Very soon, Dungeons will be empty too, as everyone either leaves or does the new dungeons for the new gear. They are killing their own game. Seriously this is a bad decision on so many levels.

For those that don’t understnd how stats work. The extra 3% magic find on the ring is the equivilent of an extra 67 stat points when applied to other ring types. This is not the adding 2-5 extra stats, it is doubling the effectiveness of the trinket’s primary stat.

This is the worst idea you guys have had since you added title driven skills to gw1. Hopefully the kittenstorm you’ve unleashed in this thread will tell you that this is not what your players want and you’ll correct it before this goes live.

everydaygamer.2613:

only mmo where people complain when new gear is added.

If it was pure cosmetic or applied to only this dungeon then I would be all for it. However it is not and will become best in slot requiring you to run this dungeon repeatedly to compete in other aspects of the game.

All for new armor as long as it’s just cosmetic and not give you a stat edge which is something ANet told us would never happen.

Well it’s happening and will continue every few months now.

Tis a sad day for GW2.

everydaygamer.2613:

only mmo where people complain when new gear is added.

Because it’s one of the only MMOs to advertise that it wouldn’t have a gear treadmill, we wouldn’t mind it if was new gear for looks only, or maybe even new gear with the same stats and a infuse slot for a dungeon – but this is a gear treadmill in a game that was advertised to not have one.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

everydaygamer.2613:

only mmo where people complain when new gear is added.

Yeah, and why? Because this MMO was supposed to be different. For the people who dislike traditional MMO’s. And what happens now? Not 3 months after release it’s turning into a traditional MMO with a gear threadmill.

If two stat points is a gear treadmill, it’s gonna be a long run!

Ibsen.4057:

That blog just made me a long time gw2 player. Thanks so much. Theres one thing GW2 lacked is end-game, for us who like to strive towards more power. To the rest who cant or dont have time, then dont. You can still enjoy the game, my goodness…relax.

Awesome update

Yeah, I can still enjoy the game without any of that gear, right up until the point where I get my face smashed in WvW by people who grind dungeons or pay money for gold to buy gear I can never get by doing what I want to do, namely, WvW. At which point it’s adios, GW2.

stefanplc.5234:

Webba.3071:

stefanplc.5234:

Free content being added slowly so there’s more stuff to do at max level. Everyone, HURRY! Quit! This is madness!

As has been said before, new content – wonderful, bi montly gear progression – terrifying. Its NOT hard to understand.

It’s not like there will be a NEW set every month to grind for. They’re adding a few items now and once you get them, that’s it, those are best in slot until next expansion. Do you honestly believe that a few months from now they’ll come out and say hey guys, we have a new set of gear that’s slightly better than ascendants but lower than legendary, bla bla bla?

3 items are being added right now which is basically 2 types, rings and backs. This whole process could take between 4 and 10 months to finish, probably just in time for a new expansion.

Not true at all this first patch will give some the next at the end of the month will give more. They said this is just the beginning.

everydaygamer.2613:

only mmo where people complain when new gear is added.

Thats why it was so good, and why GW1 was so good too.

So what about all the hours I’ve spended to get a dungeon armor set? These aren’t the best anymore?
They could all fix this if they would’ve let us craft ascended items…

Leiloni.7951:

quidgy.1483:

I understand people are angry/disappointed/annoyed, but why are so many of you being so melodramatic?

I don’t like the idea of gear grind or forcing us to have certain gear to experience certain content but threatening to quit or demanding a refund based on a blog post is really over the top.

Because the lack of a gear grind was the main focus and marketing point for this game. It’s the main idea that brought most of us here. Were it not for that many of us would still be playing our old games. So going back on the one idea that made this game is certainly something to be upset about.

That’s not true for everyone. Many people like myself thought the game just looked fun or started playing for other reasons. Many people aren’t at level 80 yet and gear grind isn’t a concern at this stage.

We’ll be talking about this one for years to come.

krookie.6378:

Zanthrax.6538:

Dear all people who dislike this change…tell me how 2-5 stats will effect your wvw or PvE experience? By that mark why aren’t you complaining that legendaries have a 1 damage point increase on exotics…clearly that 1 point of damage is making all the difference.

It’s 2-5 stats on only 1 item. How many items can you equip in the game? Multiply that by 2-5.

13 item slots. You’re looking at a total increase of less than 200 stats (assuming 6 stats per item at an increase of 2-3 per stat). You have a total of about 7k stats at level 80 with exotics. This is about a 2% increase, hardly noticeable.

In fact, your TOTAL stat gain from Ascended gear is about 1/5 of the amount of stat points you have as a BASE value for a SINGLE STAT at level 80 (916 is base before gear)

Well, I am going to bed. I sincerely hope there is a response to this entire debacle in the morning. Otherwise I am going to be looking at which toon I want to level to 90 in WoW, and then resubbing.

To arenanet, you have not made any friends with this. When the dust settles, you’ll see a fraction of your population left.

All of the videos with Colin propping up the game with grey promises (there are a few other gripes I have that baited me in initially but didnt pan out the way you stated)…

I had such high hopes for this game…

So much for skill based PVP.

bcbully.7289:

We’ll be talking about this one for years to come.

The day that ArenaNet decided to kill its own game.

Didn’t need a gear treadmill to play this amount, won’t hit 1100 if the treadmill is added.
I play for fun, not to grind same crap over to make a fair chance in PvE/PvP.

Please, ANet.

Please don’t continue down this road.

I know, you’re thinking, “A new tier of gear with only marginally better stats, plus one new statistic that only pertains to the highest level PvE content! It’s progression for those that want it without unbalancing the rest of the game!”

It looks great on paper. And it’s a horrible mechanic. It is going to be all too easy to fall into the trap of building dungeons that deal more and more agony, and then flat agony up front as soon as you walk through the door. It makes sense. To progress, you just need more ascended gear! You don’t need better stats, you just need more infusions! If you don’t want to do it, then don’t! Everyone wins.

It’s been done before. It ruined dungeons and raiding for me when LotRO’s Mines of Moria expansion tried it with Radiance, which works almost exactly the same way the blog describes infused armor. Everyone did all of their grinding to get their one set of radiance gear with stats that poorly supported several builds, and then needed to upgrade it down the line for functionally identical gear that had the same – or worse! or at least less-intelligently-allocated – stats as what they were wearing, but more radiance, and thus it was necessary to survive in the newest dungeon tier. It was miserable, it made bringing alts to high-end dungeons an unholy pain (and outright impossible without some instance grinding that no one wanted to do once they got their radiance), and it wreaked havoc on PvE build variety.

And then they removed it: http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1043-update-2-radiance-removal-developer-diary

Please don’t go down the same path with this game. I really like it too much to watch it make the same mistakes that ruined LotRO for me.

The Exiled Realm of Arborea, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Rift

Guild Wars 2

Bleh

The kind of reminds me of how the NGE was implemented in SWG. The Trials of Obi-Wan expansion had been released for two weeks when they announced that the NGE would hit the game. People were blown away and outraged. SOE eventually offered refunds for the expansion to everyone who bought it.

Hunterdan.4921:

If two stat points is a gear treadmill, it’s gonna be a long run!

That’s the point. A gear grind treadmill is there to keep you playing the game long after you’ve stopped having fun. Game companies need money so they have mastered the psychology of addiction to exploit players into continuing to pay.

And it’s 5 stat points on one piece, add up an entire set of armor/weapons/trinkets and it’s noticeable. And it’s only the beginning.

the thing I don’t understand: why do we need better gear in order to cope with a harder getting dungeon? Shouldn’t skill be the factor you need to increase. I always loved the fact that exotic gear is easy to get so everybody gets hold of it relatively soon and then only skill is the important factor.

…and it would work so well with the new dungeon: More spawns, harder bossfights,… but still the same gear. Now the people who need more challenge actually get it without trivializing the other content.

never craved for iteration more than now

just posting this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiZNSzWIaLo

gadenp.7586:

This is STUPID. I bought the game on the promise on no gear progression.

Well I guess you weren’t paying any attention whatsoever to what went on from levels 1-80.

I mean I really don’t get it. People are complaining about stuff that we realized half a year ago in betas… that it’s a really cool game but it’s still a typical RPG stat-based affair and not the coming of Super Mario meets Zelda meets Asheron’s Call meets wonderland that is fun to imagine.

This is really, really, really old news and no GW2 did not just turn a corner into this stuff.

It’s still a cool game. I don’t see the big deal unless people are still chasing a dream and not adjusting to the reality that’s been here.

@ Vonfox, lol – that’s exactly it in a nutshell. Brilliant.

raahk.2786:

quidgy.1483:

I understand people are angry/disappointed/annoyed, but why are so many of you being so melodramatic?

I don’t like the idea of gear grind or forcing us to have certain gear to experience certain content but threatening to quit or demanding a refund based on a blog post is really over the top.

Is it really? They’re going against what makes Guild Wars Guild Wars. They’re taking all of the promises, all of the amazing things that were meant to separate this game from conventional MMO’s and burning it to the ground. There are many of us who have been waiting for this game since 2007, following every update, magazine article and blog, and to say that this game hasn’t been an utter disappointment is an under exaggeration. It’s like what Peter Moleneux promised for the original fable.

Of course it’s over the top. No one has even played this update yet to see how they like it for themselves in action, and yet we have people threatening to quit.

Oh and they are buffing legendaries as well so this will also be a deciding factor in all aspects of the game. If you don’t have a legendary, you are a free kill to ones who do since they will do considerably more dmg?

Saddens me to see them make this into Gear Wars. :S

quidgy.1483:

raahk.2786:

quidgy.1483:

I understand people are angry/disappointed/annoyed, but why are so many of you being so melodramatic?

I don’t like the idea of gear grind or forcing us to have certain gear to experience certain content but threatening to quit or demanding a refund based on a blog post is really over the top.

Is it really? They’re going against what makes Guild Wars Guild Wars. They’re taking all of the promises, all of the amazing things that were meant to separate this game from conventional MMO’s and burning it to the ground. There are many of us who have been waiting for this game since 2007, following every update, magazine article and blog, and to say that this game hasn’t been an utter disappointment is an under exaggeration. It’s like what Peter Moleneux promised for the original fable.

Of course it’s over the top. No one has even played this update yet to see how they like it for themselves in action, and yet we have people threatening to quit.

Unless players specifically wanted to avoid any kind of gear upgrade system.

Let’s hope they reconsider, and keep this only for accessories. I mean, accessories were already weird when it came to stats anyways. (Triforge anyone? Backpacks?)

If this will be the only progression, then I don’t mind. I’m hoping they do not do this for armor or weapons because it would mean we would have to use transmutation stones for literally EVERYTHING!

TurtleofPower.5641:

gadenp.7586:

This is STUPID. I bought the game on the promise on no gear progression.

Well I guess you weren’t paying any attention whatsoever to what went on from levels 1-80.

I mean I really don’t get it. People are complaining about stuff that we realized half a year ago in betas… that it’s a really cool game but it’s still a typical RPG stat-based affair and not the coming of Super Mario meets Zelda meets Asheron’s Call meets wonderland that is fun to imagine.

This is really, really, really old news and no GW2 did not just turn a corner into this stuff.

It’s still a cool game. I don’t see the big deal unless people are still chasing a dream and not adjusting to the reality that’s been here.

He/she worded it wrong, he/she said progression when he/she should have said gear treadmill/power creep, there is a very big difference (and it has been explained more than once in this thread).

Tyr.1965:

bcbully.7289:

We’ll be talking about this one for years to come.

The day that ArenaNet decided to kill its own game.

In all honesty I do feel sorry for a lot people who stuck their neck out there and defended the old system and said this would never happen right up until the end. It makes them look bad.

I can’t help but to think this and the free trial are products of the earnings report. Something had to be done.

I wounder how the cash shop will be worked into all of this.

So, Ascended Armor. Agony. Infusions. People are ticked. It looks like the start of a gear treadmill. And I agree that a gear treadmill would be bad for the game.
However, a few have replied that this is what the community has asked for. People were completing every event, obtaining 100% exploration on the map, and then quitting, due to lack of endgame.
GW2 has forms of endgame, such as PvP, WvW, and cosmetics. However, we wouldn’t be having this conversation if it was enough.
New content is great, but players consume it faster than devs can create it.

So, my question is this: How do we expand the existing endgame (things to do after “beating” the game) in Guild Wars 2 without implementing a gear treadmill? How have MMOs lacking gear treadmills, such as Guild Wars 1, kept an active player base through the years? Discuss.

EDIT: The purpose of this thread is not to discuss Lost Shores, or whether or not Lost Shores is a gear treadmill. I mentioned it only because that’s what brought this topic up. There’s a ton of other threads to debate ascended armor in.

I have no voice, and I certainly don’t carry any weight in my words to you ArenaNet. We asked for many changes to your PvE content, but this was almost never asked for by the majority of your fanbase. I have defended you countless times, and trusted you far more than any company rightfully deserves. I hoped this game would be different, that it would set a precedent for other upcoming MMOs. When you challenged the current field of competitors, it was we who rose with you. When you cried for change, it was us who spread the news that it was time for a new type of MMO. When it was you who asked who will play, we answered with a resounding “yes.” You will likely not lose money, many of us will still play, and you will almost certainly not read this. But you have lost our trust, I hope it was worth it.