Guild Wars 2

With all the haloobaloo in the other threads, I wanna ask the other people what they consider “winning” in gw2. In most games, winning is attaining the highest-tier BIS items, or reaching max level, etc. Since gw2 clearly is quite different from those games, what do you think should be the definition of “win” for gw2?

in what way is GW2 different from these other games when they added Ascended Gear.
not to mention Anet hinted at them most likely raising the level cap in expansions.

If I’m having fun, I win.

Lorana.2468:

in what way is GW2 different from these other games when they added Ascended Gear.
not to mention Anet hinted at them most likely raising the level cap in expansions.

Content isn’t gated like in other games. You don’t need ascended gear to do anything in the game.

If i’m able to actually collect cool weapon skins, then I win.

(right now, anything worth having on the TP is inflating at 3x what I can earn, i can’t win this game unless they fix the economy, and worse for ANet, i’m convinced that once I reach 80, there is no hope of actually getting anything when prices on cool things like foefire’s essence — not even a precursor rocket 30G a day)

NetherDiver.6079:

Lorana.2468:

in what way is GW2 different from these other games when they added Ascended Gear.
not to mention Anet hinted at them most likely raising the level cap in expansions.

Content isn’t gated like in other games. You don’t need ascended gear to do anything in the game.

incorrect, Ascended Gear is the only way to get Agony Resistance, which is the only way to do higher levels of Fractals.
and again Anet have stated you will need this for future content they add to the game.

Lorana.2468:

NetherDiver.6079:

Lorana.2468:

in what way is GW2 different from these other games when they added Ascended Gear.
not to mention Anet hinted at them most likely raising the level cap in expansions.

Content isn’t gated like in other games. You don’t need ascended gear to do anything in the game.

incorrect, Ascended Gear is the only way to get Agony Resistance, which is the only way to do higher levels of Fractals.
and again Anet have stated you will need this for future content they add to the game.

You’ve seen everything Fractals has to offer in terms of playable content within the first ten levels, in which you don’t need agony resistance. The only difference between level 1-10 and above are “very slight” additions in boss mechanics.

In my opinion you cant win in any MMO. Im going to sound like a downer but winning requires accomplishing something, and you dont really do that playing MMOs :P its just an endless cycle until you get bored. Still having fun currently though. I think i played an MMO for 3 years and i never felt like i won, sad but true but better to accept it, then delude myself

For me, it isn’t about “winning” the meta-game, its about the smaller wins – things like:

- Clearing the tougher dungeons with no deaths (and no repair bill) – taking it a step further and doing the same with no group deaths
- Finishing a session in WvW with the server holding more points than when I started
- Making my character look as awesome as possible
- Capturing a temple in Orr
- Winning an award in sPvP for most kills/points taken/etc.
- Finally finishing a tough jumping puzzle

Rather than the game predetermining what winning means, I am able to define it for myself based on the elements that are most important to me. It’s one of the things I really love about the game.

NetherDiver.6079:

You’ve seen everything Fractals has to offer in terms of playable content within the first ten levels, in which you don’t need agony resistance. The only difference between level 1-10 and above are “very slight” additions in boss mechanics.

actually the loot gets much better, you earn alot of money from doing lvl 40 fractals (which is generally impossible without Revive Orbs from the gemstore) and above.

so yes you are missing out, no different than trying to complete old WoW content without the neccasary Resistance to survive.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

This gentlemen is correct.

Winning is one specific moment in GW2. Absolutely unarguably it exists as a definite point.

That point is the moment when you are wandering around as a lowly Elementalist in WvWvW, and a team of 4 suddenly spot you and charge in for the easy kill. You just grin to yourself and immediately ride the lightning to their thief, up-drafting him into a triple fire combo. You continue you dance around them as your AOE attacks and multiple heals drain away their life and keep you at full.

Finally, the moment you win in GW2 occurs, when you see the last person left alive, his three friends dead, and he realizes “We’ve just lost a 4v1 against an elementalist” and he begins to run away.

Of course you kill him, but the real win moment is when their joy turns to fear! Their glee at victory into terror and retreat. Especially when you see the 4 of them again… and that moment comes after you kill only one then next time.

Thats it!

It is an MMO. No such thing as winning. That said. I am having fun and therefore it is worth my monies.

to win is to have the things that you need so you can do whatever you want. with perpetual gear progression, winning is not possible.

alcopaul.2156:

to win is to have the things that you need so you can do whatever you want. with perpetual gear progression, winning is not possible.

But i can do everything i want with out maxed out gear? And considerably better than people that have full sets if the pugs i have run with are any indication.

OP, I do not define video games in terms of winning, I define them in terms of enjoying. Let me give you some examples of activities that are enjoyable without any connection with winning. Going for a walk in the morning, building and flying a radio controlled airplane, using a lathe and mill to make pieces for a car restoration project, and just to keep the list short, gardening. None of these activities involve winning in any normal sense of the word. I play video games the same way. As long as a game is enjoyable I will continue to play, when it stops being enjoyable I will go do something else. GW2 is enjoyable to play, I have no idea of what winning it would mean.

Kietay.2345:

Winning is one specific moment in GW2. Absolutely unarguably it exists as a definite point.

That point is the moment when you are wandering around as a lowly Elementalist in WvWvW, and a team of 4 suddenly spot you and charge in for the easy kill. You just grin to yourself and immediately ride the lightning to their thief, up-drafting him into a triple fire combo. You continue you dance around them as your AOE attacks and multiple heals drain away their life and keep you at full.

Finally, the moment you win in GW2 occurs, when you see the last person left alive, his three friends dead, and he realizes “We’ve just lost a 4v1 against an elementalist” and he begins to run away.

Of course you kill him, but the real win moment is when their joy turns to fear! Their glee at victory into terror and retreat. Especially when you see the 4 of them again… and that moment comes after you kill only one then next time.

Thats it!

I was gonna write another P2W gripe, and you just shut me up.

Yes you are entirely correct, this is “Win”

I’m going to go roll an Elementalist now, and it’s all your fault

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

I feel the same way. And every time I login, I have fun cause I get to do whatever I want.

Gombie.3860:

In my opinion you cant win in any MMO. Im going to sound like a downer but winning requires accomplishing something, and you dont really do that playing MMOs :P its just an endless cycle until you get bored. Still having fun currently though. I think i played an MMO for 3 years and i never felt like i won, sad but true but better to accept it, then delude myself

Well, I agree that it’s an endless cycle, only because there are always things to accomplish, not that you don’t accomplish anything.

In wow, I felt like I won when I defeated lich king, when I defeated lady vishj, then again when I beat kael, and again when I beat kiljadan, and illidan, etc.

In gw2, I won when I got my first 80, then I won when I geared him with exotics.
I won again when I got my second 80.

The two moments when I felt the proudest and like I’ve won the most are when I figured out a build that I can use for my warrior and thief for DEs, soloing, dungeons and WvW.

I don’t care about ascended gear for now cause I rarely do fotms. Though I dread the moment when I feel that I HAVE to upgrade my exotics.

Yeah seriously, I don’t think you can ‘win’ in an MMO.. I mean mostly they were used to make connections with other players, but now people think it’s to have all of some certain thing and then they’re done! It just doesn’t make sense to me. I think MMOs are about having fun with others, unless of course you wanna get competitive with a group of friends.

Lorana.2468:

NetherDiver.6079:

You’ve seen everything Fractals has to offer in terms of playable content within the first ten levels, in which you don’t need agony resistance. The only difference between level 1-10 and above are “very slight” additions in boss mechanics.

actually the loot gets much better, you earn alot of money from doing lvl 40 fractals (which is generally impossible without Revive Orbs from the gemstore) and above.

so yes you are missing out, no different than trying to complete old WoW content without the neccasary Resistance to survive.

Right, but I’m talking about getting locked out of playable content and gear gating. That doesn’t happen in GW2 as I stated with the example above. You’re talking about missing out on making more money.

Dungeon Master title

And Been There, Done That too i guess

@OP

How do you want to win a game?

In GW2 the way you win PvE is by doing all of the personal story and the final dungeon in story mode.

If you’re trying to do a 100% completion, you can’t. But you can try 100% map completion in combination with completing each of the story mode dungeons and each of the explorable dungeon paths.

Don’t focus on dynamic event’s, 99% of them are just filler content that’s largely uninteresting and unrewarding. The good reasons to do DE’s for something you find interesting, but since 99% of DE content is mediocre that’s rare. The DE’s you do want to make sure to experience are large scale events for an area that involve a huge enemy.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

Yeah pretty much this.

I’ve been winning for a few weeks now and I haven’t even scratched the surface.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

Pretty much what I was going to say. Fun trumps everything.

So, what makes me have fun?
- I just play the dungeons I feel like. AC is fun because I can steamroll it. HotM is fun because it’s a nice area. TA is fun because it’s hard. FotM is not fun because of the gating.

- I play alts, because that leads to variety. Variety is fn

- jumping puzzles are fun because they are the most challenging content in the game

- killing the big dragons will never get old!

If you don’t care about the rewards, you always win.

Am I having fun role-playing and customizing my characters, as well as playing the way that suits me, rather than being forced to play this or that way? It all boils down to that for me, and IME, I only “win” when I am having fun-don’t mind about “maximum build effectiveness”, win/losses, having a Legendary (in time, it will come), having the latest Ascended gear, etc. In short, it’s not about what I am getting in return of my playing time (as in tangible “rewards”), but whether the process to get there (whatever “there” may mean-titles, karma, Legendaries, etc.) is fun-and so far, this has been a pretty fun game, especially when one gets to cooperate on random stuff with strangers and/or friends.

It’s pretty neat, IMHO, that at least in theory, they plan to make most things accessible for different types of players. It’s not there yet, but I can see how that’s what they intend to in this game, which suits me quite well (for instance, I HATE jumping puzzles, but most aren’t really required-phew!)

NetherDiver.6079:

Lorana.2468:

NetherDiver.6079:

Lorana.2468:

in what way is GW2 different from these other games when they added Ascended Gear.
not to mention Anet hinted at them most likely raising the level cap in expansions.

Content isn’t gated like in other games. You don’t need ascended gear to do anything in the game.

incorrect, Ascended Gear is the only way to get Agony Resistance, which is the only way to do higher levels of Fractals.
and again Anet have stated you will need this for future content they add to the game.

You’ve seen everything Fractals has to offer in terms of playable content within the first ten levels, in which you don’t need agony resistance. The only difference between level 1-10 and above are “very slight” additions in boss mechanics.

That doesn’t change the fact that it does gate the higher levels of Fractals and that more content will be gated in the future as Anet already said themselves. As soon as you get LFM must have AR in chat, you know there is gated content. Just the way it is.

So whereas the impact is relatively small content wise. It’s not just the content that matters but what people are actually doing. If most people are doing high level fractals you are cut off from that group of players because of gear. Simple as that. You are out of the loop as it were.

As for winning, well I agree that fun should be the determining factor, but it means different things for different people. Some might have fun doing puzzles, others have fun doing WvW and pwning a lot and others may feel accomplished to have max stat gear. And others enjoy messing around with builds on their characters…. Or any combination thereof

So what winning means or fun, depends on who you talk to. For me this game won’t be fun until the combat system gets an overhaul and ascended gear is a full set of gear that can be gained in various ways, including other PvE activities and WvW at least. That would be a good beginning.

Can’t really win, I think that’s why so many are leaving the game though. There not a way to win right now, cause there’s no end game content.

Think about it what are you gearing up for? PVP is the only answer but the PVP is in utter ruins, and is almost pointless. FotM runs, dungeon runs, Legendaries, in the end there all pointless. It doesn’t give you the same satisfaction as if you had a Legendary or rare weapon in any other game. It just does not matter.

If you have fun and can play Scott Joplin’ Maple Leaf Rag on bells, well you win.

i won the game at 80 and relized i didnt enjoy anything beside lvling up and left the game for 1 with more level’s

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

Correct answer. The only way to win an MMO.

What CreativeAnarchy said.

Having Fun.

That’s how you win.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

very well said
I’ve been winning since the betas, lots more too enjoy.

In any case, MMOs are based on the premise you can’t beat them in any traditional sense. Pretty difficult to explain to girlfriends and the like.
- Q: How many lives you have? A: Pretty much infinite
- Q: How do you win? A: there’s no real winning condition
- Q: Why do you play it then? A: because it’s fun
- Q: Who are you playing against? A: no one, I play with them against the computer
- Q: Why does it look worse than GW1? A: Because you can be with dozens of people in the same place.

So funny she noticed that without knowing anything about videogames. On the other hand, a friend called GW2 beautiful, that’s when I told him GW1 was even prettier. This is an IT guy so props to you guys.

DungeonDaughter.7391:

Dungeon Master title

And Been There, Done That too i guess

Emperor, Master Crafter and Golden demand your attention.

I don’t think there is a “win” in guildwars 2. I don’t think there’s anything for me to win. I play the game and have fun with friends, I guess you couldcall that a win.

Volomon.9147:

It doesn’t give you the same satisfaction as if you had a Legendary or rare weapon in any other game. It just does not matter.

To many, many other players, it does STILL matter-especially if they are having fun while doing all their tasks/running dungeons/farming for Legendaries/etc.

However, this is not any other game, and that’s OK, right? They even have stated as much. Should GW2 have emulated every single game design that preceded it?

In short-and with all due respect-it may be a bird, but not all of them fly, and this one never pretended it could; so why complain about its lack of flying capabilities?

Of course you are free to like what you like-I just feel your “issue” with “lack of endgame” is user bias and not GW2’s fault, since the game was theoretically designed with a supposedly “all game is endgame” point of view (whether that is true or not is for another discussion). So feel free to love the previously set “standard”, but understand that this game never aimed to have an “endgame”, such as in your previous experience with other games.

Sorry turtles, but you don’t win by having fun. You can tell yourself that, but you know it isn’t true. Your -goal- can be to have fun. You can play games to have fun. You can be satisfied if you are having fun, but you certainly haven’t won anything.

To win means you have achieved something. Since the PvE in this game is completely turtle easy, like every MMO, the only winning conditions can come from PvP. It’s fine if you are not interested in PvP and dont want to be competitive, but do not try to convince yourself or others that you win by having fun, thats not a good attitude for success! You have to try hard and push everyone else out of the way for your spot at the top to shine!

Thats it!

Quote from: http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2#more-8680

We respect you—as a player, as a human being. This game we’re making may end up competing with your real life. It might fight for your free time alongside your friends, your family, your work, and whatever else you might be doing. Because of that, we want to give you a meaningful experience, not one that is a vapid waste of your time. Whatever your reasons for spending time in Tyria, we don’t want to waste it by doing stuff that isn’t fun.

Being rich in real life.

win – having fun
defeat – quitting

Kietay.2345:

Sorry turtles, but you don’t win by having fun. You can tell yourself that, but you know it isn’t true. Your -goal- can be to have fun. You can play games to have fun. You can be satisfied if you are having fun, but you certainly haven’t won anything.

To win means you have achieved something. Since the PvE in this game is completely turtle easy, like every MMO, the only winning conditions can come from PvP. It’s fine if you are not interested in PvP and dont want to be competitive, but do not try to convince yourself or others that you win by having fun, thats not a good attitude for success! You have to try hard and push everyone else out of the way for your spot at the top to shine!

Thats it!

Totally agreed. I think it’s fair to say that I don’t play this game to “win.” Similarly I don’t read a book to “win.” I also don’t watch TV to “win.”

Don’t take that to mean that I don’t care about being able to perform well in this game. In this game and another where I raid regularly, I do take pride in being able to play well. There’s just no concept of competition and “winning.” I’m not sure there needs to be.

Edit: BTW…. “I like turtles.”

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

I agree with this. Its an mmo. There’s no such thing as a “win” as the game is designed to go on infinitely. (Or at least til the game developers decide they don’t want to make it anymore.) So I figure if I’m having fun, I win.

Kietay.2345:

Sorry turtles, but you don’t win by having fun. You can tell yourself that, but you know it isn’t true. Your -goal- can be to have fun. You can play games to have fun. You can be satisfied if you are having fun, but you certainly haven’t won anything.

To win means you have achieved something. Since the PvE in this game is completely turtle easy, like every MMO, the only winning conditions can come from PvP. It’s fine if you are not interested in PvP and dont want to be competitive, but do not try to convince yourself or others that you win by having fun, thats not a good attitude for success! You have to try hard and push everyone else out of the way for your spot at the top to shine!

Thats it!

You are a different personality type/have different preferences. It’s OK to be a turtle too. Success is personal, as is fun, quite honestly-being competitive IS fine, but so is not being competitive at all.

In short, having fun is a valid way to win in this game, even though it wouldn’t be so for you-and that’s OK too.

When at the end of a battle I’m standing and the monsters are not, that is win!

Monsters Respawn

Doh!

I´m wining when I die more than I kill (I like the challenge makes win worth). I think that im loosing when I kill much more than I die(get bored) or just when I only dies (got annoyed) and thankfully this don´t happens in gw2 for me.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

Wrong! it’s when you:

crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

This. It seems to me that many complaints about grinding or whatever are coming from people who say they feel forced to do this or that, and it isn’t fun. No one is forcing you to get on the hamster wheel, guys. Go play in your water dish, or make a tunnel under your bedding, if that’s what you prefer.

Lord Kuru.3685:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

Wrong! it’s when you:

crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.

It is the best in life.

Facepunch.5710:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

This. It seems to me that many complaints about grinding or whatever are coming from people who say they feel forced to do this or that, and it isn’t fun. No one is forcing you to get on the hamster wheel, guys. Go play in your water dish, or make a tunnel under your bedding, if that’s what you prefer.

While I totally agree with this sentiment, I think that almost all of the discontent stems from a certain amount of boredom with endgame content. What content is truly left to do that they haven’t done? What rewards are left for them but these grindy rewards?

Facepunch.5710:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

This. It seems to me that many complaints about grinding or whatever are coming from people who say they feel forced to do this or that, and it isn’t fun. No one is forcing you to get on the hamster wheel, guys. Go play in your water dish, or make a tunnel under your bedding, if that’s what you prefer.

Yes because if people are trying to play they way they’d like to play and Anet is making that style of play absolutely maddening, then it’s clearly the fault of the player. Interesting how “we don’t make grindy games” means “we don’t make [forced] grind games [, but optional stuff is perfectly subject to having grinds]”…. because in a game that’s supposed to promote skill over the traditional MMO means of winning, it’s funny how the most sought after items prescribe to the most traditional MMO methods of getting them.