Guild Wars 2

I have a bit of mixed feelings about the combat systems, at its core it reminds me a lot of WoW with tab targeting and truthfully I wish Arenanet was a bit more audacious when it came to changing combat. Right now it feels more like a mix of the traditional MMO targeting mixed with some more of an action-MMO twist, although not truly committing to either side. Dodging and the fact that you can always cast your spells is nice, but I find myself longing for more.

More of a Tera approach would be nice, even a combat system more like smite, with a cross-hair and locked camera. But the major issue I feel is the lack of interactivity when you have no spells to cast, so having the right click be your auto-attack would go a long way in my opinion, as well as needing to aim your abilities/attacks. Something else to consider is making the endurance bar a sort of mana-bar as well, where you would choose to either unload your spells or save up for a dodge if you need it, as right now the abilities (especially weapon abilities) are best if you spam then whenever available.

Anyway that’s enough rambling from me, what do you think? What would you change?

hm personally i think the combat system is fine, But they could be expand way more

like…
Maybe adding a combo system to create more depth into the combat? example: like the warrior skill called “Impale” where you throw your sword at the target and that skill changed to “Rip” which if your close enough, you can rip the sword out of the target for extra damage, i really like the idea of that skill and think they should do more (and yes that skill called “impale” is actually in the game if you don’t know, warrior sword off-hand) other example is “Shield Stance” where you block for 5 second? well… what happen if the target is smart enough and not attack for 5 second? wouldn’t that skill just go to waste? why not change that skill “Shield Stance” into Shield Rush or something where u Rush at the Target with the shield to knock them down or stun them?

Traits? i’m not sure if that count as a "Combat system’ but lol why not add more of them? if there not going to be a level increase? (read/heard it some where but not sure if its true either) everybody likes to have your character improve or feel more powerful right? again having this would also improve more depth to the game (good for hardcore player)

Weapons, Add more weapon definitely! more weapon = more Choice = more player? lol maybe atleast 1-2 for each class? i would love too see a class with a Katana! lol maybe a theif?

Lastly how about adding more environment into the combat? like having a ranger attack from a high ground does more damage? or an Elementalist standing on water does more damage while attune to water? Or standing behind an object like a tree protect you from shockwave? and just add more environment weapon

Smigleesmits.7540:

as right now the abilities (especially weapon abilities) are best if you spam then whenever available

That’s not true.

Example: a ranger with a shortbow.

Weapon skill 1: does more damage when you are behind a target. Only staying in front of your enemy spamming it isn’t its best.

Weapon skill 2: fires 5 arrows that poison targets. The second to best use of this skill is when it can hit multiple enemies, or hit an enemy multiple times, which isn’t achieved by simply spamming it. The real best use of this skill is to hamper an enemy’s healing, by using it right before the enemy is going to heal itself, due to the way poison works.

Weapon skill 3: is a dodge. Spamming it is the same as spamming dodge.

Weapon skill 4: cripples target. Spamming it on a ranged enemy is more often than not useless. The skill is used best when kitting a foe, not when it’s spammed.

Weapon skill 5: it’s an interrupt. Again, spamming this one only avoids its strong effect.

I have the feeling not too many people really understand GW2’s combat system.

The option to toggle between the current combat mode and this combat mode.

The pace of the combat is good. Target acquisition/auto-locking can be improved upon.

A bigger pool of weapon skills (let’s say, choose between 3 options for each 1-5 skill) would make for a greater variety of specialized builds. I’d like that a lot.

I’d like them to have the gut to experiment more with the skill system.

I can say i thought Tera had a good idea that just needed the right environment (I’m not otherwise a huge tera fan), but playing a warrior it is all about movement and i feel this game delivers on that class, as well as theif. Engineer is a challenge juggling everything but it is starting to get fun as i level, while guard and ranger seem to be for those who are “movement and finesse restricted”.

All I can say is anyone who touches the keyboard with their right hand is not coming close to the potential this interface allows.

Jovel.5706:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAnkOOixuDo

The option to toggle between the current combat mode and this combat mode.

I still want an official version of this so kitten bad.

It’s literally the only thing keeping me from playing more.

I would LOVE a Dark Souls combat MMO. It would be so awsome so when your hit by a giant you feel like ‘oh shoot I’ve been hit by a giant’.

Erasculio.2914:

Smigleesmits.7540:

as right now the abilities (especially weapon abilities) are best if you spam then whenever available

That’s not true.

Example: a ranger with a shortbow.

Weapon skill 1: does more damage when you are behind a target. Only staying in front of your enemy spamming it isn’t its best.

Weapon skill 2: fires 5 arrows that poison targets. The second to best use of this skill is when it can hit multiple enemies, or hit an enemy multiple times, which isn’t achieved by simply spamming it. The real best use of this skill is to hamper an enemy’s healing, by using it right before the enemy is going to heal itself, due to the way poison works.

Weapon skill 3: is a dodge. Spamming it is the same as spamming dodge.

Weapon skill 4: cripples target. Spamming it on a ranged enemy is more often than not useless. The skill is used best when kitting a foe, not when it’s spammed.

Weapon skill 5: it’s an interrupt. Again, spamming this one only avoids its strong effect.

I have the feeling not too many people really understand GW2’s combat system.

Heh. I said in another thread that if I had a silver for every time I’ve witnessed a LB ranger knock away a target that was nowhere near him/her, but was in melee with a thief, warrior or guard, I’d be halfway to a precursor. So, while many weapon skills should be situational, the fact is they are spammed more often than not.

Revolution.6301:

I would LOVE a Dark Souls combat MMO. It would be so awsome so when your hit by a giant you feel like ‘oh shoot I’ve been hit by a giant’.

I agree!! I love Dark Soul’s combat system.

It’s just the same combat we’ve seen before, except everyone is DPS. Combo fields were a good addition but their effects lack depth and aren’t very exciting.

Replacing combat roles (“trinity”) with invulnerability on CD (dodge) IMO has not worked at all and again, IMO, downed state make the combat borderline farcical.

The lack of build variety is also a major concern.

The rest of the game is pretty good, they just need better game designers.

This thread shouldn’t be how we feel about the combat system.
Because what you’re aiming at are the the skills actually.

The combat is fine, even great, it is fluid, fast and requires self awareness.

The biggest problem is the lack of skills which additional skill slot or a 3rd weapon set will solve.

Silver Chopper.4506:

The pace of the combat is good. Target acquisition/auto-locking can be improved upon.

A bigger pool of weapon skills (let’s say, choose between 3 options for each 1-5 skill) would make for a greater variety of specialized builds. I’d like that a lot.

I’d like them to have the gut to experiment more with the skill system.

This. If they don’t add swappable weapon skills everybody will leave this game because there’s no depth and everyone run same crap everywhere.

To discuss Combat System, we have to compare it with other games or there is nothing to discuss about lol. Alright…

Firstly,
since beta i’ve noticed the combat is Slow and Clunky
Skills took miliseconds to active even instant skills. Not instant.
Even sheathing weapon or by pressing ESC to cancel a skill aint instant.
My War would swing his sword once or twice after i hit Sheath Weapon less than a second ago. (Animation? Other games could do it instantly with animation totally cancelling whatever skills that is currently activated.)

Secondly,
as reviewed by GW2 player on YouTube, there is like a wind resistance while doing fast/sharp turns. Again not instant. Meaning the enviroment will turn first then my toon. Not together. Only those who play loads of mmos will noticed this. Cause most games are instant in this catagory.

Thirdly,
WvW opponents IGN are replaced with Defenders instead of their real IGN.
Yes to avoid harrasment or whatever. But its PvP. It is what it is! Thats the fun of it!
Dont PvP if you wanna avoid all that. (WvWvW is in the PvP Catagory of the forum just an info)
Some games even have Revenge List as a side menu.

Well that bout it. Hope Anet would look into this but i highly doubt it.
Look like they are satisfied with their Combat System

Jovel.5706:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAnkOOixuDo

The option to toggle between the current combat mode and this combat mode.

Wouldn’t it give the players using it an unfair advantage if it’s so easy to win, making it an exploit of sorts? (Unless the made it official and shoot themselves in the foot again).

Jabronee.9465:

Firstly,
since beta i’ve noticed the combat is Slow and Clunky
Skills took miliseconds to active even instant skills. Not instant.
Even sheathing weapon or by pressing ESC to cancel a skill aint instant.
My War would swing his sword once or twice after i hit Sheath Weapon less than a second ago. (Animation? Other games could do it instantly with animation totally cancelling whatever skills that is currently activated.)

This. So much this. I can’t begin to count the number of times I’ve barely survived some tough combat only to die because my character just has to do one more attack after I cancel my actions, thereby pulling a kittenload more mobs onto me. Usually by that time I’ve frantically pounded escape, which of course doesn’t work. What does work is bringing up the exit menu. The kitten exit menu comes up before my actions cancel.. it would be funny if it weren’t so frustrating.

combat system is one of gw2 STRENGHT.

pvp and dungeons will require then most skills.
wvwvw zergfest second
and open world pve is a joke for a geared toon, not a good way to test the extent of the skill you can have in this game.

Snowy.9580:

Jovel.5706:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAnkOOixuDo

The option to toggle between the current combat mode and this combat mode.

Wouldn’t it give the players using it an unfair advantage if it’s so easy to win, making it an exploit of sorts? (Unless the made it official and shoot themselves in the foot again).

What do you mean by this feature making it easy to win?

I think having this feature would be amazing! It would help me enjoy the game better. As the original poster mentioned this game goes halfway between Action based combat and the click target style and instead of it feeling accommodating it feels lacking.

I quite enjoy the combat in GW2. I do agree that I hope they give us an option to switch some of the weapon skills around (say you have a pool of 10 skills per weapon, you choose 5 of those skills to put on your skill bar). Also I wish they would adjust a few of the animations on a few weapons, such as the 1 skill for the ranger 1h sword.

mjharrison.3209:

It’s just the same combat we’ve seen before, except everyone is DPS. Combo fields were a good addition but their effects lack depth and aren’t very exciting.

Replacing combat roles (“trinity”) with invulnerability on CD (dodge) IMO has not worked at all and again, IMO, downed state make the combat borderline farcical.

The lack of build variety is also a major concern.

The rest of the game is pretty good, they just need better game designers.

My thoughts almost to a T.

I think the problem of depth and engagement comes from having to design the game as an open world sandbox that is casual friendly. I just feel that currently, grouping is a little redundant outside of dungeon content without roles. There are classes that are obviously imbalanced and OP simply because there are no trinity-like roles. An Elementalist or Mage in any other game would sacrifice health and armor for high damage, AoE, utility, support, etc. Their squishy-ness would be rounded out by a healer class as well as a heavy frontline class in a trinity like game, GW1, for example. In this game, Warrior and Guardian are top tier classes just because of survivability in PvE. I’d even go so far as to say they are so integral that some dungeons are almost impossible, if not way too aggravating, without 2-3 Guardians or Warriors.

Without these distinct roles (Healer, Damage, Damage Soak), we have mere flavor bits. Sure, a Necromancer can summon pets, but so can almost all the other classes, so that role becomes very indistinct, the opposite of what it was in GW1. GW1 Necromancers had a very clear role option in providing meat shields to thwart enemy pressure in combat. I don’t think that was a viable option for any other class. In this sense, i feel that the combat system is far too homogenized and simplified to cater to very casual, non-MMO, and console players.

The results just feel awful. I think that this game would be destroying WoW if it hadn’t been designed like it is. It’s just so shallow, the lack of team integrity and synergy…the psuedo balance and artificial difficulty caused from having to design encounters radically different without trinity mechanics. To me, the game just feels boring and stale without the healer paradigm.

I really feel like a lot of problems with this game stem from grouping not really being fundamental to the grand experience. I also think a lot of problems are created from the class structure, lack of roles, homogenized and dumbed-down skill, as well as boon / de-boon systems and also the poor implementation of Weapon Skills, Traits, and the player attribute system. It’s like they deliberately created all these arbitrary numbers to please the min maxers.

In short, i really question the thought processes behind designing this game. I’m not happy with the combat system and i feel like it’s missing a layer of depth. If they don’t address it within the next year, i doubt i will stick around for expansions unless they include major changes. I came from GW, playing for 6 years almost. I’m very disappointed in the gameplay in this game. It feels like a shallow, contrived cash shop operation that caters to casual dumb-dumbs. I have not and refuse to spend money in the cash shop until they “put everything you love about GW1 into a persistent world”.

mjharrison.3209:

The lack of build variety is also a major concern.

It’s this part of your comment that makes me feel that we’re not playing the same game. If you’re referring to the huge amount of berserker geared warriors you meet in CoF then I understand that but to say there’s a lack of build variety is almost like saying that there is no difference between a guardian and an elementalist. I even have multiple characters of the same class in different configurations and I meet players in dungeons and fractals all of the time who often play very differently to myself.

Are there more popular builds and weapon choices out there? Sure but that’s more about what is simple/easy/overpowered or whatever at the time rather than what the game itself actually has on offer.

You said that this system has failed to work and that all it has done is made everyone go DPS. I find this statement to be untrue. Yes, pure damage is currently most popular but most people in an MMO tend to want to be the big bad DPS guy that kills all the enemies and makes his team-mates appreciate the damage he puts out. This doesn’t mean that other players don’t opt to go support, supply combo fields, remove conditions, tank or heal for the team (yes tanks and healers exist, they just don’t belong to specific classes) or devote themselves to controlling.

Look at it this way, the fire field is great for supplying a lengthened burn duration when people fire through it and provides massive amounts of might when people use blast skills in it. If you believe that the combo skills aren’t that useful then it’s only because you’ve never been in a group that knew a thing or two about using them. When playing with friends and guild mates, we constantly make use of everything you just said doesn’t happen.

It’s not a case of the combat system being flawed, it’s more a case of the players being used to a certain playstyle (might be why most dungeon groups are filled with glass cannons that die all the time)

lothefallen.7081:

casual, non-MMO, and console players.

Insulting those you believe yourself superior to (whether they have any relevance to the topic or not, which they don’t) doesn’t make your statements true. It’s fine if don’t like the combat system, but having every class able to do a bit of everything (in their own way i might add) hardly seems overly homogenized and simple to me. Especially not when to do certain things with certain classes vs another might be really hard and require much more skill than another. Hey, that’s just me, a player that has preferences and sees the contributions of each class, which according to you are all identical. (also, if you need 2-3 guardians and warriors to clear a dungeon comfortably, you need to learn to play or find a group that knows what the word teamwork means)

Anyways I know its not possible to change the combat completly but make it more challenging. Make us think like in GuildWars1. It was waka-a-mole combat but it has so much strategy that I could easily ignore it.
I think what drew people into this world were false promises that lead to nothing. Such as claiming this a living, breathing world. Well honestly its not. Its spam X event to get X item then rinse and repeat.

I think the combat itself is fantastic.
The only thing that irks, and it really irks me, is the targeting.

Jovel.5706:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAnkOOixuDo

This would have been fantastic and pretty much fixed my targeting issues.

I’ve created this petition to call for change

https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/arenanet-arenanet-let-us-have-the-option-to-change-the-targetting-system

i dont like it because it has ‘’inside third party help’’ aka auto target.

but having the option to change it…is bad…you practically need everyone to play equally in that aspect.

Erasculio.2914:

Smigleesmits.7540:

as right now the abilities (especially weapon abilities) are best if you spam then whenever available

That’s not true.

Example: a ranger with a shortbow.

Weapon skill 1: does more damage when you are behind a target. Only staying in front of your enemy spamming it isn’t its best.

Weapon skill 2: fires 5 arrows that poison targets. The second to best use of this skill is when it can hit multiple enemies, or hit an enemy multiple times, which isn’t achieved by simply spamming it. The real best use of this skill is to hamper an enemy’s healing, by using it right before the enemy is going to heal itself, due to the way poison works.

Weapon skill 3: is a dodge. Spamming it is the same as spamming dodge.

Weapon skill 4: cripples target. Spamming it on a ranged enemy is more often than not useless. The skill is used best when kitting a foe, not when it’s spammed.

Weapon skill 5: it’s an interrupt. Again, spamming this one only avoids its strong effect.

I have the feeling not too many people really understand GW2’s combat system.

All well and good for small battle (s)PVP, but most of it is pointless for larger battles or PVE.

And that may well be the games largest problem. The skills and such are balanced out for SPVP, where the upper limit is two sides of 8 players. This gives multiple opportunities of small groups showing off fancy skill use.

But SPVP has largely been a flop in terms of interest. This because there is a hard seperation between SPVP and PVE. And most people jump into PVE first to get a feel for the game, and there the play style is very different.

But because the skills are balanced around small PVP encounters, and the PVE world loves to throw waves of mobs at you, most of the fancy fingerwork ends up as not worth the effort.

I recently poked around as mesmer, trying out scepter/sword. Two of the skills in that setup are blocks. But to use them i have to time it so that the incoming attack lands in a 3 second window. And i can’t really hammer the skill on reaction as the animation has to play out before it actually blocks anything. Never mind that even if the skill did nothing it would enter a 10 second recharge. So why even bother?

And lets not forget about Unshakeable, the champ and higher special mob ability that makes knockdowns and such virtually useless.

Basically PVE teach people to ignore half their skill set because they are overly situational or become neutered when they could actually be useful. And so we default to spam as much damage as quickly as possible to drop the mobs before they drop us.

I think the combat could use purging a lot of the RNG, reworking the mechanics of weak effects that require heavy stacking to have any impact, and toning down the gross favour given to Power/Precision/Crit Damage builds.

Also I hate how much a build revolves around acquiring 50 pieces of gear to supplement it. That ridiculous gear commitment is only in PvE though, where I think the combat is pretty dire in general.

Mirta.5029:

mjharrison.3209:

The lack of build variety is also a major concern.

It’s this part of your comment that makes me feel that we’re not playing the same game. If you’re referring to the huge amount of berserker geared warriors you meet in CoF then I understand that but to say there’s a lack of build variety is almost like saying that there is no difference between a guardian and an elementalist. I even have multiple characters of the same class in different configurations and I meet players in dungeons and fractals all of the time who often play very differently to myself.

Are there more popular builds and weapon choices out there? Sure but that’s more about what is simple/easy/overpowered or whatever at the time rather than what the game itself actually has on offer.

You said that this system has failed to work and that all it has done is made everyone go DPS. I find this statement to be untrue. Yes, pure damage is currently most popular but most people in an MMO tend to want to be the big bad DPS guy that kills all the enemies and makes his team-mates appreciate the damage he puts out. This doesn’t mean that other players don’t opt to go support, supply combo fields, remove conditions, tank or heal for the team (yes tanks and healers exist, they just don’t belong to specific classes) or devote themselves to controlling.

Look at it this way, the fire field is great for supplying a lengthened burn duration when people fire through it and provides massive amounts of might when people use blast skills in it. If you believe that the combo skills aren’t that useful then it’s only because you’ve never been in a group that knew a thing or two about using them. When playing with friends and guild mates, we constantly make use of everything you just said doesn’t happen.

It’s not a case of the combat system being flawed, it’s more a case of the players being used to a certain playstyle (might be why most dungeon groups are filled with glass cannons that die all the time)

You’re confusing playstyle variety with build variety. You can have the exact same skills chosen and gear stats and still play quite differently than another person; that’s not the point.

The point is GW doesn’t have much build choice because of the design choices that were made. Unlike WOW’s and other games’ talent trees, GW2’s talent trees bind trait choices to stat choices, and also strongly bind trait line choices to weapon choices.

e.g. if you want to (hypothetically) swing a GS and you like utility skills “X” and “Y”, you are obliged to choose trait line “Z” in order to have an effective build.

Combine this with the fact that while classes may be relatively well-balanced against each other, weapon skills and trait lines within classes are far from balanced, giving rise to the current situation where most classes have 1 or maybe 2 strong builds to choose from.

Your final comment merely echoes my point – the removal of trinity has made everyone into a DPS, because pure support roles are far less effective than speccing for DPS with a little support on the side.

Like I said, GW has minimal build variety and not a lot of playstyle variety – most people are using the same 1-2 builds per class, and almost everyone is DPS.

Like I have said in other threads, the PvP system is too simple and feels like an arcade game. Considering what they have already implemented, they can add a layer of depth into this game easily by severely revamping the effects of combo fields. Right now, combo effects are seriously very minimal considering how much teamwork/communication is involved. They need combos to make enough of a difference to affect the outcome of a battle for an example, certain combo fields would produce say quickness. Like seriously, some of these combos are so dumb. For an example, retaliation for 3 seconds or vulnerability or might x3 for 20s. For something like a combo, these effects needs to be upped big time for people to even bother with it.