Guild Wars 2

Well it’s obvious that GW2 is meant to be a very easy MMO for very very casual players (like myself) who don’t want to worry about complicated mechanics/combat/stats, it is very easy for me to excel and have fun and never press more than 3 to 4 buttons, which I think is great becaus nobody is judging me for not following proper mechanics/rotations etcetra.

I got tired in other MMOs where I was forced to concentrate on fights and bosses and one mistake would wipe everyone, that was really stressful! So that’s why GW2 really appeals to the gamers who are either 1) not able to put full concentration into their computer screens when they are gaming, and 2) are not very skilled gamers. I definitely fall into those categories, hehe

My 2 cents, have fun

PS. I think that GW2 really innovated the MMO genre by making it accessible to less skilled (younger, elder, handicapped, or less experienced, etc) people. Before, MMOs were more appealing to ‘hardcore’ players, but GW2 really changed that.. I love it

SirMoogie.9263:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its not about cold numbers. I’d rather have just 5 players on a map working together playing dynamic events together, having fun then have 500 players on my map zerging after gold. The problem is not getting players on a map, thats easy, the problem is to get to engage in a variety of activities and thats like impossible cause at the end of the day its an attitude issue. People like rewards more then they like gameplay thats the core issue.

I agree. My best moments in game are doing dynamic events with 5-10 people. Going much larger than this causes combat to become problematic (hard to see enemy tells, challenge is removed, etc.)

Exactly. And it makes a lot of sense for starters most dynamic events only scale to 10 people. Bring more and an already easy event becomes trivial combat wise + interaction becomes unneeded. Some one is down no need to bother we’ll kill whatever is attacking them in a few seconds and s/he will revive that way. in small groups everything is much more engaging. if you’re just 2 or 3? well i will revive the fellow cause we need the numbers in return they’ll be grateful and revive you. socially small groups are much much better.

Sil.4560:

This is basically a “theme park game” at this point. People hype up and crowd around the latest event and grind it to death until the next big thing is released, then they flock over to that. Thanks to the temporary content, apparently this – along with blowing money on gems for useless items – is how Anet would like us to play.

People hype up and crowd… interesting combination… hype implies the interest is virtual. IE people think it will be great but instead it turns out not to be the case. In turn that would imply that once it hits it should be a desert not uber crowded like these events are. Its not hype, its that many people like different things then us who might not be into farming.

Also this game was always themepark

and more also that they’re selling useless things for gems is a good think, what do you want things that you cant play the game without? They handling the gem shop perfectly, things that people desire but that are unneeded. its how it should be.

gurugeorge.9857:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its not Arenanet who are driving us away from the open world towards rewards, its us the players who drove arenanet from the open world to farming because thats what us the players did. (very generally speaking)

Yeah, I agree with this.

Mind you, OTOH, I don’t think they ever wanted to discourage farmers altogether, I think it likely that they have a fair bit of headroom built into in the game for even more farming (rewards are probably going to be upped across the board).

I think they’ve just been cautious about it up till now. Also, taking into account the bot problem they had early on, perhaps they felt they couldn’t really turn rewards to Eleven until that problem was licked.

Looks like they now feel they can turn it up to Eleven.

All in all, I don’t think anything fundamentally bad is happening. I think it’s more a question of overall emphasis – they’re never going to abandon any particular area of the game for the sake of farming, but they are now looking at making farming more fun. They do want to please all the players, after all.

Personally I hope thats not the case, I am hoping this is just a temporary situation kind for the 1 year anniversary celebration. If this amount of income keeps up, we’ll have massive inflation and those who dont farm will suffer being unable to meet prices that only farmers can afford. That be very bad especially for new players.

That and I am sorry to say some farmers just make for a toxic community. unfortunately. Excluding some farmers this game has some great community. People stopping short of the finish line at sanctum sprint to let some one else get the achievement cause they already got it. I even saw a bunch of players trying to help one get the last man standing achievement in crab toss etc…. Over all this game has a very cooperative and helpful community. the only negative things I’ve experienced where by farmers. CoF P1 full zerk warriors if you’re a noob dont apply. Farmers bashing players cause they finish off an event before their zerg could get there. Something fresh from last week at the queen’s gauntlet someone who asked me to promise moving to another arena or s/he wouldnt res me cause s/he is farming there. I just rather not have them all over the place really.

SirMoogie.9263:

It’s so unfortunate that the latest offerings in the open world are such a vast departure from what they were going for, and succeeded in many cases during the initial release. From the manifesto¹ they were against quest text that directed players where to go. They cite as an example a quest would say centaurs are attacking a village and that when you go there the centaurs would just be sitting around. Their promise from the manifesto was to have a living world where you see these attacks starting and actually happening. Contrast that with what we have now. We get quest text telling us Scarlet is attacking a zone. When we arrive her minions aren’t actually attacking anything, they are sitting there like loot pinatas waiting to be killed. ….

I get what you’re saying but keep in mind this is but one update and one which is meant to be a celebration with an ingame excuse.

I wouldnt judge their direction based on any one update. Farmers play the game, in great numbers too, that they get an update for them now and then is fine. Just like people who love vertical progress, people who love mini games, people who love jumping puzzles etc… get content now and then as well.

Galen Grey.4709:

If this amount of income keeps up, we’ll have massive inflation and those who dont farm will suffer being unable to meet prices that only farmers can afford. That be very bad especially for new players.

That and I am sorry to say some farmers just make for a toxic community. unfortunately

Well, and that is another issue with massive emphasis on farming.
And it is serious – at the moment, according to some posters, you may get circa 70 gold for “proper” farming in 20 hours. Now – judging by the numbers on Orr/Frostgorge Sound/ Queensdale pre patch and the number of players participating in current events, we have a great chunk of playerbase getting a lot of money on a quick system – which create massive inflation of some goods and some other (these ones that are easily available through farming and not that necessary) dropping down.

Where it leaves new players or the ones that doesn’t farm?
Low level zones have literally no way to guarantee income in any way, shape or form. Combined hearts/DE/drop/gathering are barely enough to cover cost of “skill books”…

Worst thing is , that for the players with 80’s there absolutely no incentive to go back there at all – it is WAY less profitable by every means. Even champion farming in Queensdale for is subpar to CS with possibility of loot being downscaled and possible number of champions coming with scaled DE.

So basically there are two choices now – you either farm or you are falling back with the economy. And to be effective – theres only 3 choices at the moment – farm “champions route”, farm “dungeons” (different paths) or play “invasion” content. Everything else doesn’t even come any close to that.
So where is “play the game the way you like” choice?

Fringilla Vigo.8594:

So where is “play the game the way you like” choice?

A counter-inquiry.

What exactly do you need the gold for? I mean, there’s a lot of stuff which can be expensive, or IS expensive (seriously, cultural armor, WTF?) but what else is there to spend it on?

Right now the only thing to spend large amounts of gold on are either unnecessary power boosts or dressing up your characters in certain appearances of gear.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fringilla Vigo.8594:

So where is “play the game the way you like” choice?

A counter-inquiry.

What exactly do you need the gold for? I mean, there’s a lot of stuff which can be expensive, or IS expensive (seriously, cultural armor, WTF?) but what else is there to spend it on?

Right now the only thing to spend large amounts of gold on are either unnecessary power boosts or dressing up your characters in certain appearances of gear.

I don’t need it in a way that I must have it to play the game. But having 16 characters myself I want to dress them the way I like. And I would love to see that “farming” isn’t the oly way to get that done. So in other words I spend my money on a vanity items.

But let me reiterate your question – what do you need to do in an MMO at all? We all play for different reasons and we have different goals, various approaches, but there is absolutely nothing that you need to do in an MMO.

So sorry, but I think that your argument is invalid.

Fringilla Vigo.8594:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fringilla Vigo.8594:

So where is “play the game the way you like” choice?

A counter-inquiry.

What exactly do you need the gold for? I mean, there’s a lot of stuff which can be expensive, or IS expensive (seriously, cultural armor, WTF?) but what else is there to spend it on?

Right now the only thing to spend large amounts of gold on are either unnecessary power boosts or dressing up your characters in certain appearances of gear.

I don’t need it in a way that I must have it to play the game. But having 16 characters myself I want to dress them the way I like – in other words I spend my money on a vanity items.

But let me reiterate your question – what do you need to do in an MMO at all? We all play for different reasons and we have different goals, various approaches, but there is absolutely nothing that you need to do in an MMO.

So sorry, but I think that your argument is invalid.

It’s not an argument. It’s just a question to provoke some answers and discussion. And it’s been on my mind a lot lately with how much people talk about the gold they’re “needing to rake in”. I literally pored over looking for things I really required a lot of gold to get.

I came down to exactly four things:

- Gem conversion. (So you don’t want to, or can’t afford real money to buy Gems with. Fine, I get it, I was there before. It’s not cheap. But it’s probably easier to pool $20 than to farm/grind.)

- Cultural weapons/armor. (Unbeknownst to some, there are cheaper transmutable skins you can get sometimes. But it takes some looking.)

- Ascended back items. (All those Tier 6 Materials . . . oy. There’s a reason I crunched numbers and determined I didn’t really need those to stay competetive in PvE.)

- Legendaries. (Specifically, Precursor purchases along with . . . again, Tier 6 Materials.)

I haven’t found piles on piles of gold (to the tune of 30/day) is even close to normal operating costs.

So, no, there’s no argument from me. I’m actually seeking a discussion opening with the question. It’s weird because a lot of times I don’t actually GET an answer as to why people want to have the money.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I came down to exactly four things:

- Gem conversion. (So you don’t want to, or can’t afford real money to buy Gems with. Fine, I get it, I was there before. It’s not cheap. But it’s probably easier to pool $20 than to farm/grind.)

- Cultural weapons/armor. (Unbeknownst to some, there are cheaper transmutable skins you can get sometimes. But it takes some looking.)

- Ascended back items. (All those Tier 6 Materials . . . oy. There’s a reason I crunched numbers and determined I didn’t really need those to stay competetive in PvE.)

- Legendaries. (Specifically, Precursor purchases along with . . . again, Tier 6 Materials.)

You have missed at least two – and I’m talking from my perspective only. As I said, I have 16 characters, eight of them being eighty.
Therefore -

- I want to gear them up. Some of this might be done with tokens, wvw tokens (to the degree), karma, laurels, crafting etc… But this way or another, I need to spend my time to get any of these. And some of the items I want are available (realistically) only through Auction House (Superior Rune of Divinity for instance). So money comes into place.

- I want to get some skins that I fancy. I wasn’t that lucky on drops, so I need to get them through Auction House again. Again – i need gold for it.

Put some gem conversion on the top of that and you have my money sinks in this game.

And as I said before- I don’t need it. I may get cheaper runes. And I don’t need to have so many characters. And I may left them looking bad. I realize that. But that’s MY GOALS. That is my MOTIVATION to play Guild Wars 2.
And all I want is to be able to work towards my goals ANYHOW effective by playing open world content. Not by running with huge zerg playing Tag Wars.
Is it that much that I’m asking for?

Fringilla Vigo.8594:

Is it that much that I’m asking for?

No, it’s not. And yes, it is. Sixteen characters to fully-geared? That’s a tall order in most single player games I remember playing. Well, except for X-Com.

Do forgive me, but I expect most designers expect a player to find one character they “click with”, that they really feel attached to and play them with alts to change it up now and then. And that’s just because if you’re working one character, you’re not working another one, so you are going to have a longer and more grueling task to grow your second, third, et cetera . . . characters

So, no, you’re not asking for a lot . . . but I don’t see a way of looking at sixteen characters (or even a quarter of that) and not thinking “that’s a lot of work”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Do forgive me, but I expect most designers expect a player to find one character they “click with”, that they really feel attached to and play them with alts to change it up now and then. And that’s just because if you’re working one character, you’re not working another one, so you are going to have a longer and more grueling task to grow your second, third, et cetera . . . characters

So, no, you’re not asking for a lot . . . but I don’t see a way of looking at sixteen characters (or even a quarter of that) and not thinking “that’s a lot of work”.

You seem to be missing my point a bit… Of course it is a lot of work. And it is my choice and I’m well aware of the chores that comes with it. moreover – my “project” is far away from being done. I play from headstart and I played quite a lot. Only 8 are 80’s, and I just recently equipped all of them in full exotics. So it took me a year. And second “wave” is in their infancy – and I will be taking my time to do it.

But that is irrelevant.

The only thing that matters – I’ll repeat that – Is that I want to be able to work towards my goals ANYHOW effective by playing open world content.

And I don’t think I’m alone in that.
Oh, on that – why don’t you have just one toon and max it out? Answer is simple – The thing I find most pleasant in MMO’s is to create character, give it some personality, gear it up, make it look I want. After that job is done, I create another and I come back to other toon just for pure fun or whenever I “need” that class/setup (dungeon/wvw/pvp, you name it)

Ex hypothesi, if you don’t “need” gold that much, then farming shouldn’t bother you.

I appreciate the point about potential inflation, but that’s what I mean by “headroom” – I don’t think Anet are stupid enough not to realize what the recent reward-upping might mean for the economy; I think the fact that they’ve upped the rewards means they have some built-in headroom for rewards across the board, and they don’t think it will adversely affect the economy. And I think they will up the rewards for open world content to a comparable level.

Everyone is forgetting the bot context. When the game started, bots were a huge plague. Obviously in that context, Anet couldn’t up the reward level. One must presume that, given they are upping the reward level (and are likely to do it across the board) this is because they feel they’ve got a handle on the bot abuse potential, and that they launched cautiously, but now feel they can give the players the level of reward-buzz they originally intended the game to have.

Either that, or they are idiots who don’t know what they’re doing – these are really the only alternatives, so far as I can see. I’m just loathe to believe that people who made a game as good and successful as GW are idiots.

gurugeorge.9857:

Ex hypothesi, if you don’t “need” gold that much, then farming shouldn’t bother you.

If I don’t need gold per se, it doesn’t necessary mean that I don’t need gold to get me closer to my gold.

So I need it in the sense that everyone does. Not that I can’t play without it but it makes me closer to things i want to achieve.

But that doesn’t bother me as such. What bothers me is that most maps are desolate and empty. Because there’s no economical reason to play them. Some maps are flooded. because theres some economical reason to play them.
Is that clear enough now?

Junkpile.7439:

This game need hard non zergable raid content which would give good loot (like pieces of full armor and gear sets). Guild challenge would be good if there would be some kind of challenge (anybody have ever fail one of these?), some kind of boss mechanics and good reward.

- Why do you people always complain that this game is not hard? Why are you so invested in this? Why not go play some hard game that actually challenges you intellectually, like chess?

Zenith.6403:

Junkpile.7439:

This game need hard non zergable raid content which would give good loot (like pieces of full armor and gear sets). Guild challenge would be good if there would be some kind of challenge (anybody have ever fail one of these?), some kind of boss mechanics and good reward.

- Why do you people always complain that this game is not hard? Why are you so invested in this? Why not go play some hard game that actually challenges you intellectually, like chess?

Because they’re not THIS game, with whatever it is the person who is saying it likes about this game. They’re invested in this because they like the lore, they care about the world, they really like that one detail in the game they find better than anywhere else.

They care about this game, and not another one. So of course, they want this game to adopt something else they want so they don’t have to balance two separate entities.

It’s like we’re supposed to play the game a little and shop at the store a lot. Basically, you do what you can in-game and then you buy gems/gold to fill in all the gaps. It’s how they collect their revenue in lieu of subscriptions.

Zenith.6403:

Why do you people always complain that this game is not hard? Why are you so invested in this? Why not go play some hard game that actually challenges you intellectually, like chess?

Chess doesn’t challenge you intellectually, the opponent may. Also chess is more 1 vs 1 and not so much group content.

MMOs are expected to appeal to different player groups because they attract people with various playstyles. If they don’t balance that right, there will be disappointed people.

Considering that this is the GW2 forum, it also makes sense to speak about this game here. I do like a game of chess, but it’s not the same. Lucky for me there are other MMOs that I do like and do offer challenges, but if you do like the setting of this game it is a shame if you have to find that challenge somewhere else. GW2 could offer more of it, there really isn’t that much of it here.

Fringilla Vigo.8594:

The only thing that matters – I’ll repeat that – Is that I want to be able to work towards my goals ANYHOW effective by playing open world content.

I do get that, I’m just not sure how your goals (working up multiple characters) doesn’t translate to a multiplication of work. Or expenses. I play open world content more than Living Story content myself (at least until Clockwork Chaos hit and they kinda meshed). I don’t . . . REALLY . . . find a problem with getting what I’m after.

Though, for notes, I do set my bar rather low on what skins I want. I run with simpler ones, more often, and don’t really like the fancy ones from Living Story or dungeons, or Fractals. I’m more concerned about DYES and getting the color schemes I want for characters. (Aaaaand that is a whole different expense, indeed. Luckily I don’t like how Abyss and Celestial look….)

And I don’t think I’m alone in that.

You’re not.

Oh, on that – why don’t you have just one toon and max it out? Answer is simple – The thing I find most pleasant in MMO’s is to create character, give it some personality, gear it up, make it look I want. After that job is done, I create another and I come back to other toon just for pure fun or whenever I “need” that class/setup (dungeon/wvw/pvp, you name it)

You and I are kind of alike on that. I have one character (Tobias Trueflight) who is my main. Because I’m a glutton for punishment and play a ranger in both this and GW1 without relying on pure gimmick. I often pick up three to four other characters based on what other classes/professions appeal to my play style and I don’t feel uncomfortable playing.

For instance? I couldn’t handle necromancer or mesmer in GW1. In GW2 I make a horrible elementalist and thief. I have a warrior in both games which I rather adored playing because it was somewhat straightforward. I also have a guardian I’m trying out and haven’t decided if I like or not.

. . . and, notably, I’m trying to play through the storyline on multiple race/order/choices so I can see more of the Personal Story. (Some of it is better than other parts, which is something for another forum.) That’s probably the biggest reason to do alts in this game, by the way. Check out other races / orders.

So I think we’re not that far apart . . . we just have different values of what we’re looking for in working a character up. And I’m still not sure what expenses are so incredible as to require farming outside the four things I listed. I saw your other two points, but I think they could be much less expensive compared to the ones I listed. (Which are the ones which pretty much necessitate some level of farming and/or luck.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I play open world content more than Living Story content myself (at least until Clockwork Chaos hit and they kinda meshed). I don’t . . . REALLY . . . find a problem with getting what I’m after.

Sure. I geared up eight of them without crazy emphasis on “farming” at all .The only exception was working towards legendary, when for few weeks I was practically living in Cursed Shore. Which, by the way, I regret, because having multiple characters I rarely how up with my legendary.

But the thing is – whenever I play around on some more or less random maps (finishing 100% world completion on my 5th toon) I see one trend.

Most maps are empty – not that it makes them unplayable – but it makes it less enjoyable. 80% of DE I do alone. Most of the champions and group events I don’t do (they’re too hard or impossible to do alone or it takes way to much time to solo them with same reward as for any other event).
I see nice, well thought over and detailed world which is left alone.

On the contrary, new Champion loot did opposite thing to Frostgorge Sound and Cursed Shore – they’re unplayable by other means – they just turned into “zerg fest”, “tag wars”, and “stay with commander lol” fest.

And that bothers me. I think it is bad for the game itself – it makes it less enjoyable.
Seriously, I think that for some players if Anet left them FotM, Cof path 1, Lions Arch to show up, World Bosses for ectos and Queensdale, Frostgorge Sound or Cursed Shore for champs – they wouldn’t even notice the difference. Oh, and Trading Post of course.
And I’m genuinely curious – what kind of fun is that? Does they really enjoy the game that way? Do same thing all over again just to get more money? If I were down to that, I would have quit a long ago..

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And I’m still not sure what expenses are so incredible as to require farming outside the four things I listed.

Well, there is a couple of weapon skins that I would love to have on my characters.

For instance – see that huntress?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Rate-the-looks-of-the-person-above-you/page/4#post2619880

I would like to have wings of dwayna on her. But its more than 300 gold to make.
And that is just example…
P.S. You may see a couple of mine characters on this thread as well

I think Tobias is correct in one regard. The GW2 player-base is deeply divided across many issues. Developers naturally want to provide what players want, because that’s what pays. However, all changes and content additions seem to anger someone. Before the fact, I would have had a hard time imagining anyone getting upset about the wallet, but there were people who did.

How much different would this thread be if ANet had boosted DE rewards instead of Champion rewards? Who would be complaining then?

Fringilla Vigo.8594:

gurugeorge.9857:

Ex hypothesi, if you don’t “need” gold that much, then farming shouldn’t bother you.

If I don’t need gold per se, it doesn’t necessary mean that I don’t need gold to get me closer to my gold.

So I need it in the sense that everyone does. Not that I can’t play without it but it makes me closer to things i want to achieve.

But that doesn’t bother me as such. What bothers me is that most maps are desolate and empty. Because there’s no economical reason to play them. Some maps are flooded. because theres some economical reason to play them.
Is that clear enough now?

In one sense every one needs gold, of course – gold is needed to purchase things, and if you want the things, you need the gold.

But for some players having things is secondary to other goals, while for others having things is closer to their primary goal – they want to achieve, to accumulate, to have the best gear, etc., etc. For them, it’s more like racing than playing about. And that’s fine, that’s a playstyle (the Achiever playstyle). Anet has to provide some way for them to do their thing, because they’re a huge part of any MMO playerbase.

Now, you’re saying that because of the lumpiness of distribution of players across mapes because of farming content on some maps, that’s stopping you from achieving your goals. But think about this:-

For those farmer, there’s no economic reason to play on your empty map.

But for you, there is still an economic reason to play on your empty map, isn’t there?

So really it’s not an economic argument you’re making, but it’s more that you are sort of lonely and wish there were more players playing on your map.

And I agree wholeheartedly with that. The maps should be more evenly populated.

But for that, it seems to me, the rewards have to be upped for DEs and normal play, to the same level as the Champs and “farms” are now.

This is why I’m suggesting that actually Anet have built a fair bit of headroom into the game for extrinsic rewards, and are now starting to let rip with it, first with Champs, and I think soon with DEs and other content.

Again, I think we must, must, MUST talk about this subject bearing in mind the bot problem Anet had right at the beginning of the development of the game. The relatively paucity of extrinsic rewards up till now has, I believe, a lot to do with that.

So, ok, the only argument left is that if they up the rewards across the board, it will screw the economy. But I think it’s likely that the economy was designed with the higher level of rewards in mind – which means, in effect, I think they always intended it to be a bit easier for everyone to get the stuff they want, but they couldn’t get to that state while there was a bot problem.

I think the “lumpiness” of player distribution is temporary. Anyway, I sure hope it is

gurugeorge.9857:

But for some players having things is secondary to other goals, while for others having things is closer to their primary goal – they want to achieve, to accumulate, to have the best gear, etc., etc. For them, it’s more like racing than playing about. And that’s fine, that’s a playstyle (the Achiever playstyle). Anet has to provide some way for them to do their thing, because they’re a huge part of any MMO playerbase.

And that is all fine. Moreover – it to be expected.

gurugeorge.9857:

Now, you’re saying that because of the lumpiness of distribution of players across mapes because of farming content on some maps, that’s stopping you from achieving your goals.

No, it doesn’t stop me at all.
I guess that I didn’t make myself clear enough. I want to gear and dress my toons up (you may call it my and goal), at the same time, I like to play open world most and do 100% completion on each toon (which is my pleasure)
Now – one thing doesn’t exclude another, but economically this playstyle doesn’t make sense at the moment – especially that most maps are low lvl ( less than 40).
There’s no way that I am any close to efficiency on low level map in comparison to Cursed Shore champion train.
It doesn’t discourage me. But it discourages these ones, that are about efficiency. And they are packed on 3 maps – The rest, like me (plus those that are leveling or doing “other” maps for various reasons, are spread around the rest – which makes these maps
even more quiet.
And I think that wrong. ArenaNet created such a beautiful world, created so many engaging DE’s and they are not played in favor of mindless (press a lot of 1 and F) chase for champion tagging.

For those farmer, there’s no economic reason to play on your empty map.

But for you, there is still an economic reason to play on your empty map, isn’t there?

No, there isn’t. It is just my guilty pleasure. I love the open world. I love variety of classes. I love enjoyment of playing my character that is dressed and equipped the way I wanted. And I want all of my characters to explore the whole world. That will give me sense of accomplishment.
As for the economical reason – I’m the foolest of all fools to play that way. I don’t feel “punished”. But I think that ArenaNet doesn’t gratify me for my playstyle at all. I would be way more wealthy that I am now if I spend my time efficiently.
It’s ok. Its my choice.
But I think that they throw candies to “farmers”.
Hence my question “Is that the way that they want Guild Wars 2 to be played”?
If I were them, I would encourage my players to play the world I created. But it might be just me. I might be delusional about it.
I’m just a one, meaningless cog in the machine.

gurugeorge.9857:

So really it’s not an economic argument you’re making, but it’s more that you are sort of lonely and wish there were more players playing on your map.

I dont really feel “lonely”. I would like to be able to do group DE’s. I would like to see this wonderful world more alive. I don’t want to feel like a fool for doing 100% world, because that’s economically just plainly stupid.

gurugeorge.9857:

This is why I’m suggesting that actually Anet have built a fair bit of headroom into the game for extrinsic rewards, and are now starting to let rip with it, first with Champs, and I think soon with DEs and other content.

That “Champion Loot” seemed to me like a good idea at the first glance. But it turned out to be worse than world bosses.

gurugeorge.9857:

Again, I think we must, must, MUST talk about this subject bearing in mind the bot problem Anet had right at the beginning of the development of the game. The relatively paucity of extrinsic rewards up till now has, I believe, a lot to do with that.

You’ve got a point there for sure.

gurugeorge.9857:

So, ok, the only argument left is that if they up the rewards across the board, it will screw the economy. But I think it’s likely that the economy was designed with the higher level of rewards in mind – which means, in effect, I think they always intended it to be a bit easier for everyone to get the stuff they want, but they couldn’t get to that state while there was a bot problem.

I think the “lumpiness” of player distribution is temporary. Anyway, I sure hope it is

Me too, me too…

IndigoSundown.5419:

How much different would this thread be if ANet had boosted DE rewards instead of Champion rewards? Who would be complaining then?

The only complaint I may see is the one that there possibly might be DE grieving by just tagging any given DE and moving along to the next one. But that might be solved by giving full reward (gold) by full participation and having bronze as “default” for minimum effort.

Galen Grey.4709:

People hype up and crowd… interesting combination… hype implies the interest is virtual. IE people think it will be great but instead it turns out not to be the case. In turn that would imply that once it hits it should be a desert not uber crowded like these events are. Its not hype, its that many people like different things then us who might not be into farming.

Also this game was always themepark

and more also that they’re selling useless things for gems is a good think, what do you want things that you cant play the game without? They handling the gem shop perfectly, things that people desire but that are unneeded. its how it should be.

Does your post have a point? Hype is “excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion”. So yes, this crap is all hyped up, people crowd around expecting something awesome, and ultimately it’s not as great as it could have been for whatever reason, yet they flock to the next thing to restart the cycle all over again. That’s exactly what their strategy here is banking on, and while it’s effective for making them money, it’s poor at actually providing great, lasting content.

I really don’t care about your opinion on how “it should be” regarding the underwhelming gem store either; not once did I say I want vertical progression items to be added. You want to dissect my posts? Do a better kittening job next time. And no, I’m not a brainless champion farmer.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I think Tobias is correct in one regard. The GW2 player-base is deeply divided across many issues. Developers naturally want to provide what players want, because that’s what pays. However, all changes and content additions seem to anger someone. Before the fact, I would have had a hard time imagining anyone getting upset about the wallet, but there were people who did.

How much different would this thread be if ANet had boosted DE rewards instead of Champion rewards? Who would be complaining then?

There’d still be complaints. Seriously. And then DE farming would be back

I think they’re still trying to figure out how the community wants to play. We have an interesting thing going on with the current event.

One side of it is brainless zerg farming in which no skill or effort is required, just time. That’s the subscription crowd. In these aspects of the current event what the individual does and what the enemies do don’t really matter at all. There’s essentially no meaningful gameplay outside of tagging things to ensure maximum loot gain.

The other side of it—the gauntlet, the playhouse, and the queen’s champions—is tightly focused on the individual’s understanding of builds and mechanics. In here the matchup of the individual against the opponent is everything, and the player must not only use his skills wisely, but also mitigate or counter the enemy’s skills on top of being aware of the special mechanics at play.

It makes me wonder if this is some sort of test to see which aspect of the game gets greater amounts of positive feedback, as if it will determine future development. Seems possible to me, anyway.

They built a well rounded game and they want well rounded players. They seem to like to make you do the stuff you don’t enjoy to get the achievements. They seem to feel since they created it you darn well are going to play it.

I too am an open world dynamic world fan. I can absolutely live with out WvW, PvP, Mini games, Pugging Dungeons and Fractals and I do. Of all these thing the only one with any redeeming value is WvW and even though I do sort of like it, I usually don’t bother with it except to map the areas. But I do always fight while mapping. I suck but I make good cannon fodder and figure my dying keeps someone alive who knows what he’s doing.

They built all this crap in order to attract more players and now they have to try and keep everyone happy. So they failed, they should have picked one thing and just did that.