Guild Wars 2

IMO when a new MMO launches we know there will be some issues and changes in the first few months. Bugs range from mild annoyances to catastrophic failure (crashes, story stoppers, etc.). Unfortunately GW2 has had a very bumpy launch filled with the full range of bugs. None of us wanted it to be this way, but that’s the way it’s turned out.

I believe they are busy fixing these things, but it’s clear in the rush to find a solution and to stop certain exploits they are making some changes that seem to be done with haste. It’s dangerous territory and we all know this. Systems that took years to design prove to fail post launch and suddenly the team decides to go and do something like DR without having time to properly test that and see long term ramifications.

Its these sort of decisions that can take a successful MMO launch and destroy it. Listening to the feedback of the community is critical, but that’s difficult because sometimes the community will rally behind really bad ideas.

So this leads up to my question: How long should a developer be given to get launch bugs worked out? With any MMO we all know there are going to be issues, but as the bug queue fills up and the developers work like mad to fix problems the game community are expecting some announcement on new content. What’s going on inside ArenaNet remains a mystery. Are all hands on deck to stop the hemorrhaging? Are the teams responsible for new content continuing on as planned isolated from the bugs? This seems like a time when communication between game studio and community would be critical, but instead information coming out seems to have slowed.

It’s a month after launch and it seems several major issues still remain. Some decisions post launch (DR) have angered the community. Will there come a point in time where it’s taking the developer too long to flush out the serious bugs and design flaws (IMO DR was a response by ArenaNet to a design flaw, this is an example of the worst type of patch). How long should the developer be given?

If the bug queue continues to stay full and no new content has been announced a few months into release of a new MMO how long can it last?

SamTheGuardian sounds….concerned….

Seriously people, get off your high horses thinking bug fixes involving entire areas’ worth of DEs will be out within a week. Anet has admitted to messing up on dungeons, and it looks like once the bugs involving them are fixed the system will be rewarding. Look, I’ve played several MMOs where my class was either always broken and where the end-game events were plagued with bugs. Games that were out for numerous years.

One month, imo, and to any sane person, is not enough for a fix to be implemented that cures all the major ailments in a game. They have made many fixes, though, so don’t spout off that nothing has been done. The few times I haven’t been able to complete a zone, and by that I mean twice, the fix was in-game within a couple days. Sure, I’m disappointed with Orr and the dungeons, but so far Anet has been upfront about trying to fix things.

Give them another month, and if you feel like quitting during that time, go right ahead. Unlike other games, where you will oftentimes play due to paying for that one month, or six months, etc…there is no subscription involved with this game. If you deem it unworthy of your attention right now, and lack the patience to find other ways within the game to hold your attention span, then go find something that will. In the meantime, millions of people will enjoy the game, and the devs will continue to work on fixing the numerous bugs.

TL,DR: Keep calm, carry on.

How long should they be given? As long as they need. Give them time to sort it all out. They’ll take as long as they take.

How long should the developer be given?

Until what, exactly? /V/ invades? The Pope excommunicates ANet? We stop making threads like this? I don’t understand.

Bugs range from mild annoyances to catastrophic failure (crashes, story stoppers, etc.).
…
Systems that took years to design prove to fail post launch
…
Its these sort of decisions that can take a successfully MMO launch and destroy it.
…
Are all hands on deck to stop the hemorrhaging?

I’ve bolded all the obvious examples of massive hyperbole in your post. Honestly, you seem so utterly convinced this game is bleeding players like a severed artery all over your new MMO carpet, so why are you even asking this sort of question?

How much communication do you want? For the first week of launch, they had a day-by-day State of the Game. Since then, we’ve had official comments on everything from Dungeon tuning to bugged Events to botting nearly every single day.

You want to mix metaphors, fine: you want to convince me this game is hemorrhaging players like the sinking Titanic, fine. Show me numbers. Show me evidence that one month after release, GW2 is in half a bad a shape as you and nearly every other thread on this forum describe.

I’m willing to believe you, and I’m willing to give your arguments a chance, but when you make claims that outlandish and use hyperbole that frequently, I expect some extraordinary evidence to support your extraordinary claims. Otherwise, frankly, this just sounds like another Sky Is Falling thread.

If I had to write half of what GW2 is onto paper, it would be foolish of me to believe that I would not make a single spelling mistake.

That is not even taking into account AI, triggers, and pathing.

As long as they have an active team working on it, all is good

I’ve bolded all the obvious examples of massive hyperbole in your post. Honestly, you seem so utterly convinced this game is bleeding players like a severed artery all over your new MMO carpet, so why are you even asking this sort of question?

How much communication do you want? For the first week of launch, they had a day-by-day State of the Game.

1.) There are a lot of players upset about DR. 2.) There are a lot of players who are leaving because of this (we don’t have numbers but the forums are lit up over it). 3.) The implementation of DR came unplanned post launch as a response by the game studio to a problem (broken system) that did not reveal itself in beta testing 4.) Most MMOs fail, even the great ones like SWTOR. When you look at all the data and try to figure out why that happens it generally falls back on things like item 3. The studio in panic mode throwing solutions at broken systems. Solutions they have not properly tested or considered long term fall out of. My assessment right now based on what we do know is that all hands are on deck just trying to just keep the water out of the ship. Are resources focusing on new content? We don’t know! In a screen cast Friday Johnathan ‘Chaplin’ Sharp said that most resources were focused on fixing things right now.

They worked very hard to create a great game and then in haste end up destroying it. This is how great MMOs die unfortunately and I would say that statement isn’t even a point to dispute you can see it time and time again. So my question is how long before we know…

I don’t ask because I hate GW2, I ask because I love this game and don’t want to see it happen. I’m not happy with ArenaNet’s communication post launch, but that is subjective.

There were some rumors at Gamescon this year related to GvG, etc which Colin Johansen quickly squashed, but in his public statement on those rumors he said the community could expect to hear about ArenaNet’s post launch plans very soon. That was a month ago. I just think there’s some reason to be concerned at this point.

not to mention programming is not as simple as people seem to think it. It’s not like you can viola fix it. Programming is a complex and often painful experience debugging as you have to sift thru dozens, hundreds and sometimes thousands of lines of code to find that needle.

AndrewWaltfeld.4621
not to mention programming is not as simple as people seem to think it. It’s not like you can viola fix it. Programming is a complex and often painful experience debugging as you have to sift thru dozens, hundreds and sometimes thousands of lines of code to find that needle.

(Quote button ran away)

What, didn’t you hear? 2/3 of the players are coders/used to work for an MMO. Seriously. Have you seen how many times people throw that out there?

SamTheGuardian.2938:

I’ve bolded all the obvious examples of massive hyperbole in your post. Honestly, you seem so utterly convinced this game is bleeding players like a severed artery all over your new MMO carpet, so why are you even asking this sort of question?

How much communication do you want? For the first week of launch, they had a day-by-day State of the Game.

1.) There are a lot of players upset about DR. 2.) There are a lot of players who are leaving because of this (we don’t have numbers but the forums are lit up over it). 3.) The implementation of DR came unplanned post launch as a response by the game studio to a problem (broken system) that did not reveal itself in beta testing 4.) Most MMOs fail, even the great ones like SWTOR. When you look at all the data and try to figure out why that happens it generally falls back on things like item 3. The studio in panic mode throwing solutions at broken systems. And trying to just keep the water out the bottom deck with no resources to focus on new content. The worked very hard to create a great game and then in haste end up destroying it. This is how great MMOs die unfortunately and I would say that statement isn’t even a point to dispute you can see it time and time again. So my question is how long before we know…

I don’t ask because I hate GW2, I ask because I love this game and don’t want to see it happen. I’m not happy with ArenaNet’s communication post launch, but that is subjective.

1. what is DR
2. even if there are a lot of posts, there are over 2 million people playing the game, and not nearly that much complaining on the forums.
3. that is not true, their are plenty of mmos that are successful, just the subscription models (like SWOTOR) have failed mostly.

i hate this about new games, first people say that the developer is not updating enough to fix all the problems, and then complain about how the developer is rushing the updates and not thinking about how it impacts the game, make up your kitten mind.

The majority of the player base doesn’t give them a set timeline. It is based entirely off of how much fun they are having. It is entertainment. The bleeding gets even worse when your friends and guildmates stop logging in and the community feels as if they aren’t being listened to.

For an MMo to be successful developers need to fix and improve the game forever. It never ends. In first 1-6 months, support should be quicker and more focused than ANY other timeframe in the MMO’s “life”. Anet is not prioritizing like they should and they are now paying for it.

More developers or support could have made this much smoother but for w/e reason they chose not to do it …or even worse…weren’t thinking.

If a movie is horrible people get up and leave the theater.

KuiShanya.2645:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

I’ve bolded all the obvious examples of massive hyperbole in your post. Honestly, you seem so utterly convinced this game is bleeding players like a severed artery all over your new MMO carpet, so why are you even asking this sort of question?

How much communication do you want? For the first week of launch, they had a day-by-day State of the Game.

1.) There are a lot of players upset about DR. 2.) There are a lot of players who are leaving because of this (we don’t have numbers but the forums are lit up over it). 3.) The implementation of DR came unplanned post launch as a response by the game studio to a problem (broken system) that did not reveal itself in beta testing 4.) Most MMOs fail, even the great ones like SWTOR. When you look at all the data and try to figure out why that happens it generally falls back on things like item 3. The studio in panic mode throwing solutions at broken systems. And trying to just keep the water out the bottom deck with no resources to focus on new content. The worked very hard to create a great game and then in haste end up destroying it. This is how great MMOs die unfortunately and I would say that statement isn’t even a point to dispute you can see it time and time again. So my question is how long before we know…

I don’t ask because I hate GW2, I ask because I love this game and don’t want to see it happen. I’m not happy with ArenaNet’s communication post launch, but that is subjective.

1. what is DR
2. even if there are a lot of posts, there are over 2 million people playing the game, and not nearly that much complaining on the forums.
3. that is not true, their are plenty of mmos that are successful, just the subscription models (like SWOTOR) have failed mostly.

i hate this about new games, first people say that the developer is not updating enough to fix all the problems, and then complain about how the developer is rushing the updates and not thinking about how it impacts the game, make up your kitten mind.

Diminishing returns. Fine mats drop less the more you kill, events give less rewards the more you do in an area, and I guess there’s something about dungeons giving you less. None of which bothers me, really.

riku.2091:

AndrewWaltfeld.4621
not to mention programming is not as simple as people seem to think it. It’s not like you can viola fix it. Programming is a complex and often painful experience debugging as you have to sift thru dozens, hundreds and sometimes thousands of lines of code to find that needle.

(Quote button ran away)

What, didn’t you hear? 2/3 of the players are coders/used to work for an MMO. Seriously. Have you seen how many times people throw that out there?

Of course I heard. It’s my WIP BS degree and I’m dealing with simple programming projects with only a few hundred lines. :P

Tho on a more serious note – it’s not something to ignore either. It’s a very real problem and for things as large as guild wars 2 – it’s often very time consuming. To ignore that statement or say it is irrelevant is stupidity. Not that have you said such a thing – just pointing that detail out.

I was hoping to get opinions about what people think is an expected time frame. Instead it seems most people are kind of upset I even pose the question.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

I was hoping to get opinions about what people think is an expected time frame. Instead it seems most people are kind of upset I even pose the question.

i would give it a month or two, just think about how long it took skyrim to get bug free, and that is from a triple a studio

I’m level 64, and have experienced my first two bugs that actually kept me from playing the game. Two skill points in Sparkfly Fen were bugged. This has been a great launch. Smoother than almost anything i’ve played at launch. Cataclysm was the last launch i’ve played that was near flawless… SW:TOR was pretty decent, but not perfect. WoW vanilla was buggy as all hell at launch, but still quite playable. I never played D3, but THAT is an example of a buggy, HORRID launch.

They should be given the time they need to fix bugs. Here’s an analogy that the devs for SW:TOR came up with to explain bug fixing:

You’ve got rows and rows and rows of marbles lined up perfectly. And then there’s shelves of these marbles, dozens deep. You try to start tweeking a crooked line, but you bump the row above and below. That causes them to roll slightly, until you’ve messed up 4-5 lines on 3 different shelves.

THAT is bug fixing. Give them some time. :P

2-3 months seems to be good but you can also take a good look at how things are currently being handled and it makes a big statement on how things will go down in the future. At month 2…. its not all going to be magically fixed and be fun again. This is something that begins before release and bleeds over heavily into post release.

I was worried when pretty much all 80 pve content was broken and grindy….and that didnt take long to learn…. guess what? its still broken.

In addition to DR I did not mention the obvious problems with waypoint travel cost. I’m not in the camp that says remove them altogether, but something has to be done. The current system taxes players who want to travel to help others… Point is there are a lot of broken systems in this game that after you rack about 160-200 hours in game become obvious. Not little cracks, huge cracks. These things are a threat to the game.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

I was hoping to get opinions about what people think is an expected time frame. Instead it seems most people are kind of upset I even pose the question.

it depends on the problem

So I’ll give two answers.

Bugs – Depending upon the severity of the problem – A week maybe 2, 3 if it’s serious.

Bots – Cluster-kitten of a problem. No easy answer or solution. To be honest, it might be more feasible to simply have dev’s running around the various zones that bots frequent and manually ban-hammering them. Eventually… they will run out of accounts.

Really, I would see it being effective if they did a combination of what they are they currently doing and doing this.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

1.) There are a lot of players upset about DR.

True. There are just as many players tired of hearing the constant complaints about it, but nobody wants to address that.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

2.) There are a lot of players who are leaving because of this (we don’t have numbers but the forums are lit up over it).

The forums represent a very small portion of the player base. If the population of the servers are any indication, it’s a very very VERY small portion.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

3.) The implementation of DR came unplanned post launch as a response by the game studio to a problem (broken system) that did not reveal itself in beta testing

Why is it no one is ever mad at the people who caused these systems to be put into place (bots and exploiters), and are always mad at the companies that had to implement them in the first place? Also, the system wasn’t broken. They likely just underestimated the bot problem.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

4.) Most MMOs fail, even the great ones like SWTOR. When you look at all the data and try to figure out why that happens it generally falls back on things like item 3.

Actually, the number one reason why an MMO fails is lack of a player base or sales, something which Guild Wars 2 is having no issues with currently.

The studio in panic mode throwing solutions at broken systems. Solutions they have not properly tested or considered long term fall out of. My assessment right now based on what we do know is that all hands are on deck just trying to just keep the water out of the ship.

I’m sorry, you didn’t tell us you worked for ArenaNet. I’m glad you shared this insider information with us.

Oh wait…

Also, you answer your own question here:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Are resources focusing on new content? We don’t know! In a screen cast Friday Johnathan ‘Chaplin’ Sharp said that most resources were focused on fixing things right now.

See, there’s your answer. What’s the problem?

They worked very hard to create a great game and then in haste end up destroying it. This is how great MMOs die unfortunately and I would say that statement isn’t even a point to dispute you can see it time and time again. So my question is how long before we know…

Wrong. I would dispute this point all day long. They haven’t destroyed their game at all. I log in daily and know many others who do as well.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

I don’t ask because I hate GW2, I ask because I love this game and don’t want to see it happen. I’m not happy with ArenaNet’s communication post launch, but that is subjective.

I’m going to call you out on this. If that’s all you’re upset about, why didn’t you just say that instead of ranting about so many other things?

SamTheGuardian.2938:

There were some rumors at Gamescon this year related to GvG, etc which Colin Johansen quickly squashed, but in his public statement on those rumors he said the community could expect to hear about ArenaNet’s post launch plans very soon. That was a month ago. I just think there’s some reason to be concerned at this point.

Yes. Because new systems can be put into place in a month while so many other issues are at hand. Also, they should have an expansion pack out already, three new races, eight new classes and half of Guild Wars 3. /sarcasm off

My god I love reading posts about complainers are the vocal minority. Here is a news flash for you! FORUMS ARE DEAD! Look at the PS3 and 360 forums you have maybe 40 or 50 people posting a day on each forum yet there are over 14 million PS3 and Over 14 million 360 players.

The vast majority of the people are simply going to quit with out saying a word on the forums. But you can rest assured there going to tell all their friends how much the game sucks.

My 4 year old nice will tell you that there’s less people playing now then release. Its not that hard to figure out when most of the 1 to 70 zones are empty. It means two things (A) High level people are unhappy so there not making alts (B) Game sales have slowed way down.

If you would like a example of a non WOW successful mmorpg look no further then FFXI. I played that game from 2004 until 2010 and from 2004 until 2007 all zones were packed like sardines. It wasn’t until late 2007 that the game started loosing players. And that’s was because SE was too hard headed and stopped listening to players.

Moonthrower.1406:

They should be given the time they need to fix bugs. Here’s an analogy that the devs for SW:TOR came up with to explain bug fixing:

You’ve got rows and rows and rows of marbles lined up perfectly. And then there’s shelves of these marbles, dozens deep. You try to start tweeking a crooked line, but you bump the row above and below. That causes them to roll slightly, until you’ve messed up 4-5 lines on 3 different shelves.

THAT is bug fixing. Give them some time. :P

I like the SWTOR developer’s analogy. I believe there is a link between bugs (and include flawed design that must be repaired such as what happened with dungeons in GW2) and an MMO failure. You have a situation where 1.) customers are upset. You may be very patient most aren’t. 2.) You’re proven tested systems from beta are broken and you’re have a small window to retool them because of the angry customer base. It’s a horrible place to be in.

How well did the studio prepare to deal with bugs? Is it a case like like Titanic where they viewed their product as an unsinkable ship and now they are reallocating resources and working like mad day and night to fix problems? -Or- Was this part of a contingency plan with a dedicated team in place at launch to deal with these issues and the teams responsible for new content still working away on schedule.

Indications from recent interviews (Chaplin’s being the most recent) make me wonder. I’m not going to say there’s enough to strongly say they weren’t prepared but it does sound like all hands are on deck to deal with these unexpected issues. That is a concern.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Moonthrower.1406:

They should be given the time they need to fix bugs. Here’s an analogy that the devs for SW:TOR came up with to explain bug fixing:

You’ve got rows and rows and rows of marbles lined up perfectly. And then there’s shelves of these marbles, dozens deep. You try to start tweeking a crooked line, but you bump the row above and below. That causes them to roll slightly, until you’ve messed up 4-5 lines on 3 different shelves.

THAT is bug fixing. Give them some time. :P

I like the SWTOR developer’s analogy. I believe there is a link between bugs (and include flawed design that must be repaired such as what happened with dungeons in GW2) and an MMO failure. You have a situation where 1.) customers are upset. You may be very patient most aren’t. 2.) You’re proven tested systems from beta are broken and you’re have a small window to retool them because of the angry customer base. It’s a horrible place to be in.

How well did the studio prepare to deal with bugs? Is it a case like like Titanic where they viewed their product as an unsinkable ship and now they are reallocating resources and working like mad day and night to fix problems? -Or- Was this part of a contingency plan with a dedicated team in place at launch to deal with these issues and the teams responsible for new content still working away on schedule.

Indications from recent interviews (Chaplin’s being the most recent) make me wonder. I’m not going to say there’s enough to strongly say they weren’t prepared but it does sound like all hands are on deck to deal with these unexpected issues. That is a concern.

Well put…. add onto that the recent post on the main page “now hiring”

They weren’t ready or well setup to handle post release.

If an MMO wants to impress me on release it wont be with concept art or voice acting etc etc. Itll be when they have several dedicated teams for several areas of the game with the proper manning. The first couple days and weeks they should be able to make minor class balancing tweaks with minimal need to worry about bugs as tehy would mostly be fixed from beta/stress tests.

It’s almost as if Anet is focusing down single issues at a time minus a few small fixes here and there.

Again, my theory is they just rushed it to beat MOP and were nowhere near ready to support post release.

Soulwatcher.2604:

If you would like a example of a non WOW successful mmorpg look no further then FFXI. I played that game from 2004 until 2010 and from 2004 until 2007 all zones were packed like sardines. It wasn’t until late 2007 that the game started loosing players. And that’s was because SE was too hard headed and stopped listening to players.

Things have changed since FFXI. The MMO community in general has changed. They move like rabid dogs from new game to new game. The hop in, level cap, complain about lack of new content and then run to next new game. Look at SWTOR. A solid MMO a much better game than FFXI I would say in terms of play mechanics, story overall design (we could argue, let’s not. Let’s go by sales in the first 3 months, SWTOR wins that one). There’s a real problem with the community devouring games that is close to the heart of my original question.

In order for the game studio to have the funds to keep making new content they need players. In a game like GW2 they don’t have subscribers so they need box sales and money coming in through the gem store. The money they have on hand determines their ability to build what they want in future expansions.

If GW2 only has a community of 200-300,000 playing in a year then I would classify it as a dead MMO. We’re not looking for a WoW killer, but it should at least stand toe-to-toe with the runner up (another NCSoft game and also F2P) AION.

Here are some numbers over various years 2009-2012

World of Warcraft – 9,100,000 (2012)
Aion – 3,400,000 (mid 2010)
Guild Wars 2 – 2,000,000 (mid 2012)
Runescape – 1,300,000 (2009)
Lineage – 750,000 (2009)
Lineage II – 750,000 (2009)
Dofus – 520,000 (mid 2010)
Final Fantasy XI – 350,000 (mid 2010)
Eve Online – 325,000 (2011)
Lord of the Rings Online – 210,000 (mid 2010)
City of Heroes/Villains – 125,000 (2009)
Age of Conan – 120,000 (mid 2010)
Ultima Online – 100,000 (2009)
Everquest – 100,000 (mid 2010)
Warhammer Online – 80,000 (2010)

Once developers start paying attention to their competitors’ mistakes more and put more emphasis on post release… things will look better.

I don’t think they really understand that they need an abnormally large crew of developers and support in order to handle the first few months. By the time they see problems…they are already behind and players are getting bored.

The should be starting ahead of the curve as much as they can.

Draeka.5941:

SamTheGuardian sounds….concerned….

Seriously people, get off your high horses thinking bug fixes involving entire areas’ worth of DEs will be out within a week. Anet has admitted to messing up on dungeons, and it looks like once the bugs involving them are fixed the system will be rewarding. Look, I’ve played several MMOs where my class was either always broken and where the end-game events were plagued with bugs. Games that were out for numerous years.

I’m sorry, I missed the jist of your post. I kept hearing someone screaming “Warlock” over and over and over again….

@Sam that’s what I have been preaching all day! Punishing your entire player base because of botters is not the way to build a player base!

Like it or not this game needs as many players that it can get even the “FARMER’s”. Guild Wars 1 was a very successful B2P game because of the fact that 95% of the game ran off peer to peer much just like COD. The only time you were using Anet servers was in towns.

Guild Wars 2 is a full blown mmorpg and will not survive on B2P alone. They need Gem sales and lots of them. I probably would fall on the floor if I seen the GW2 bandwidth bill little alone the data center bill. On top of that you need to pay people to maintain the servers, fix code in the game, work on new content, customer service, pr department , human resources, rent/mortgage on the building their working out of utilities, worker pay, heck I can go on and on. The cost to run this game is probably 100 times more then GW1.

Man, I would hate to be a developer with, some of, the modern gaming community as hostile as it is now.
MMO games are inherently glitched, whether it be quests, classes, etc. Any game so massive in size has problems. It’s ridiculous to expect them to iron out all, or most, glitches within a certain time frame. If you honestly believe this, than you have zero experience in programming. You don’t just fix one variable or line and everything is done, and if you do you risk bugging something else.
I’d like to know how big your sample size is on the “large” player base that is upset with the DR implementation. Sure, some people are but these forums, unless suddenly we have thousands of people signing threads, is no base for the players has a whole.

I don’t understand the “fix this soon or I’ll leave” and “this game is doomed” talk. If you enjoy the game, then look past the issues and give the developers the support they deserve for working so hard to give you such a quality product. (and yes this is a great, quality launch by MMO standards) It isn’t an mmo, but Morrowind is considered one of the best rpgs of all time. You know what else it’s considered? One of the most bug filled ones. But the community looks past the bugs, and enjoys the game they were given.
Lastly, Anet has been awesome about communication, you should pay more attention.

Doubt this game will die, which is probably why ANet isn’t fixing stuff as quickly as us players want them to. ANet knows that casuals will keep buying the game and playing once per week, making the game last longer for them, and making it so they don’t realize the problems until after one year of playing, when they’ve already bought a new expansion. So no matter what, ANet will have money in their pocket.

I’d like to know:

• When will they change PvE so people actually are encouraged to team up or speak with each other to plan their strategy? Whether I’m alone on the whole map or surrounded by 50 players in one event, this games feels lonely. The other players might as well be NPCs.
  I’m already considering turning off all the chats as if the chat box wasn’t there, because honestly there’s no point even having it.
  After that I just set myself to Invisible, because there’s no point being set to Online. If they intended GW2 to be a solo RPG, then I will play it like one instead of fooling myself that it’s a social game.
• When will they straighten up Guesting so I can play with my friends? I can only move servers once per day. That means I have to pick which one of my friends I want to play with.
  Why couldn’t they just make it so you can’t gather nodes until 12 hours after transferring? (The issue was with switching servers to get T6 materials easily, right?) Why couldn’t they make it so you can’t WvW 12 or 24 hours after transferring? Nope, kneejerk, screw everything for everyone.
• When will dungeon tokens be account wide? Right now if guildies help each other get tokens, someone is always missing out. One person wants X armor another wants Y armor, another wants Z armor. That means someone has to give up on their armor so they can help guildies get their armor.
• When will they make lower areas give proper loot and event rewards when you go to lower areas (doesn’t even have to be Lv 80 rares, it could just be Lv 80 whites and blues!), so we can help our friends level up without sacrificing our rewards? If they’re going to keep it like it is now, then they should at-least make armor repair and travel costs scale down like your level scales down.

Im guessing your not a programmer and if you are you dont program MMO games. I dont think you really understand how complicated bugs can be to fix in a game of this size.

lorazcyk.8927:

• When will they change PvE so people actually are encouraged to team up? Whether I’m alone on the whole map or surrounded by 50 players in one event, this games feels lonely. The other players might as well be NPCs.
  I’m already considering turning off all the chats as if the chat box wasn’t there, because honestly there’s no point even having it.
  After that I just set myself to Invisible, because there’s no point being set to Online. If they intended GW2 to be a solo RPG, then I will play it like one instead of fooling myself that it’s a social game.

Suggestion: Spark some conversation on the map chat. Sounds crazy right? You’ll feel a lot less lonely. I’ve started doing this and there has been times I’ve stayed in a zone hours longer than I normally would have just because of the conversation I’ve been having in it. Not to mention – once someone kicks over the boulder and starts talking, everyone else is going to want to join in. Soon enough you’ll have at least a dozen or two dozen people chatting and eventually doing events together.

You can easily turn into a social game if you wish. Sometimes you just got to be the pebble that starts the ripples. The choice is yours.

I already do try to talk on /map and /say chat.
Sounds crazy right? Bet you didn’t think someone would actually try before posting on the forum, uh?

But I’m not talking about chatting. If I wanted to chit-chat about random things I’d pick up the phone and call my best friend or my brother.
I’m talking about making game play with others more meaningful, having to think how to go about things, having to coordinate efforts. You know, like you had to in GW1, even simple missions like Ruins of Surmia or Fort Ranik.

look at d3… the community gave that game 2 months.

were one month in and reports are already in of people leaving for whatever reasons. also would like to point out that these forums are beginning to look just like D3’s also which is not a good sign of the future of the game

and say what you want about xfire but its not good when your only 15k players ahead of minecraft : ( Even if the stats are messed up lol.

So i guess the answer to your question would be about 2 months

Arson.4189:

look at d3… the community gave that game 2 months.

were one month in and reports are already in of people leaving for whatever reasons. also would like to point out that these forums are beginning to look just like D3’s. which is not a good sign of the future of the game

and say what you want about xfire but its not good when your only 15k players ahead of minecraft : ( Even if the stats are messed up lol.

So i guess the answer to your question would be about 2 months

Arson.4189:

Arson.4189:

look at d3… the community gave that game 2 months.

were one month in and reports are already in of people leaving for whatever reasons. also would like to point out that these forums are beginning to look just like D3’s. which is not a good sign of the future of the game

and say what you want about xfire but its not good when your only 15k players ahead of minecraft : ( Even if the stats are not “accurate” lol.

So i guess the answer to your question would be about 2 months

tOss.9024:

Man, I would hate to be a developer with, some of, the modern gaming community as hostile as it is now. .

I’d imagine it’s a lot like being in a live performance field like theater or a musician. If you just read the critics’ reviews you’ll be convinced you’re the worst performer ever and no one would ever come to see you perform. Even if you gave a free show during a rainstorm people would rather get wet than be in the same room with you.

Then you actually go out to perform a concert or a play, and you look out at a packed house and realize there are thousands of people who all gave of their time and money just to see you… and you realize that the critics are just sad little men who want to make you feel bad.

The staff have access to a LOT more data about what goes on in their games than we do. Most of the people posting here, for all their posturing, don’t have a clue about what they’re talking about.

Arson, was that really so important you had to say it three times?

They have as long as they want, but they won’t be receiving any more income from me until they get it worked out. So that means no gem purchases and no expansion purchases.

tOss.9024:

Man, I would hate to be a developer with, some of, the modern gaming community as hostile as it is now.
MMO games are inherently glitched, whether it be quests, classes, etc. Any game so massive in size has problems. It’s ridiculous to expect them to iron out all, or most, glitches within a certain time frame. If you honestly believe this, than you have zero experience in programming. You don’t just fix one variable or line and everything is done, and if you do you risk bugging something else.
I’d like to know how big your sample size is on the “large” player base that is upset with the DR implementation. Sure, some people are but these forums, unless suddenly we have thousands of people signing threads, is no base for the players has a whole.

I don’t understand the “fix this soon or I’ll leave” and “this game is doomed” talk. If you enjoy the game, then look past the issues and give the developers the support they deserve for working so hard to give you such a quality product. (and yes this is a great, quality launch by MMO standards) It isn’t an mmo, but Morrowind is considered one of the best rpgs of all time. You know what else it’s considered? One of the most bug filled ones. But the community looks past the bugs, and enjoys the game they were given.
Lastly, Anet has been awesome about communication, you should pay more attention.

I am not asking for miracles use some of that $90 I spent and gems and the billion or so they made from box sales and spend $7.25 a hr to to hire a few people and make a bot banning team. And remove the stupid DR and I will over look any other flaw in the game. Matter of fact check all my posts I haven’t made a single post about a broken game mechanic other then getting crap loot out of finishing the personal story.

tolunart.2095:

tOss.9024:

Man, I would hate to be a developer with, some of, the modern gaming community as hostile as it is now. .

I’d imagine it’s a lot like being in a live performance field like theater or a musician. If you just read the critics’ reviews you’ll be convinced you’re the worst performer ever and no one would ever come to see you perform. Even if you gave a free show during a rainstorm people would rather get wet than be in the same room with you.

Then you actually go out to perform a concert or a play, and you look out at a packed house and realize there are thousands of people who all gave of their time and money just to see you… and you realize that the critics are just sad little men who want to make you feel bad.

The staff have access to a LOT more data about what goes on in their games than we do. Most of the people posting here, for all their posturing, don’t have a clue about what they’re talking about.

Right, so you go to a restaurant you know is generally good, and order something, the food smells rotten, the table you sat down at wasn’t even cleaned from the previous visitors, and when you ask for a cup of coffee it’s cold and tastes like tar.

You complain but the other customers say “oh, it’s just a sad critic who doesn’t know what he’s saying”.

And the restaurant owners think “well, people still come by and I make money, I don’t see what’s the problem”

Yay!

I already do try to talk on /map and /say chat.
Sounds crazy right? Bet you didn’t think someone would actually try before posting on the forum, uh?
But I’m not talking about chatting. If I wanted to chit-chat about random things I’d pick up the phone and call my best friend or my brother.

You’ll be surprised on these forums what people don’t typically try out before posting.

I’m talking about making game play with others more meaningful, having to think how to go about things, having to coordinate efforts. You know, like you had to in GW1, even simple missions like Ruins of Surmia or Fort Ranik.

Hmmm So how would find gameplay to be more meaningful for you? I guess if talking to people in mapchat and eventually doing group events with them doesn’t cut it – what does then? If you don’t mind me asking.

objectively, as long as they need, subjectively, as long as you want – if you think you cannot enjoy the game with the bugs, you have to chose the consequences. If you like the game and are just annoyed by the glitches, you can play something else (no sub fee) and check the patch notes.

I don’t mind you asking, actually, thank you for asking.
Whether on my own or with other players, whether in a party or not, you can pretty much just go 123, 123, 123 over and over. Then you’re done and move to the next thing (NOTE: I’m not saying I do this, I’m saying I could). Even world bosses don’t require much thought or coordination.

Yesterday a person came to Lion’s Arch to ask for more people for Dwayna’s statue event in Straits of desolation. 4 people join him (I was one). We go do the event. 5 people only, and it was just super easy. Kite, Spam 1 2 3, Rinse and Repeat until dead.

Look at GW1. Right in the tutorial area where you spawn when you make a fresh character (pre-searing Ascalon), you could just get the secondary profession and then hurry to post-searing Ascalon, but if you lingered in the tutorial area and went to Catacombs on your own, you had to thread carefully. If you went with another person, you had to talk with each other about how to proceed. If you crossed the northern wall, you discussed with each other how to go about it. And that’s just the tutorial area!

You left the tutorial area, and you do story quests and missions. Every single story mission in that campaign required thought and coordination between players, even the beginner ones.

Now, I don’t know how it goes in other open-world MMOs, but just because it’s open world, does it have to be so brainless that each person just has to auto-attack? I feel like a monkey among a million monkeys spamming 1.

So I try to play during off-hours so it’s just me fighting, at-least that way it becomes marginally more interesting.

But I didn’t buy this game to play solo :S If I knew I’d be playing solo I’d just have kept playing Elder Scrolls.

Even if I ask on map chat for more help because I’m alone, they come, yes, but all we have to do is spam attack until the enemies are dead.

It’s just not that fun to me. I miss GW1. Group coordination was great.

Soulwatcher.2604:

tOss.9024:

Man, I would hate to be a developer with, some of, the modern gaming community as hostile as it is now.
MMO games are inherently glitched, whether it be quests, classes, etc. Any game so massive in size has problems. It’s ridiculous to expect them to iron out all, or most, glitches within a certain time frame. If you honestly believe this, than you have zero experience in programming. You don’t just fix one variable or line and everything is done, and if you do you risk bugging something else.
I’d like to know how big your sample size is on the “large” player base that is upset with the DR implementation. Sure, some people are but these forums, unless suddenly we have thousands of people signing threads, is no base for the players has a whole.

I don’t understand the “fix this soon or I’ll leave” and “this game is doomed” talk. If you enjoy the game, then look past the issues and give the developers the support they deserve for working so hard to give you such a quality product. (and yes this is a great, quality launch by MMO standards) It isn’t an mmo, but Morrowind is considered one of the best rpgs of all time. You know what else it’s considered? One of the most bug filled ones. But the community looks past the bugs, and enjoys the game they were given.
Lastly, Anet has been awesome about communication, you should pay more attention.

I am not asking for miracles use some of that $90 I spent and gems and the billion or so they made from box sales and spend $7.25 a hr to to hire a few people and make a bot banning team. And remove the stupid DR and I will over look any other flaw in the game. Matter of fact check all my posts I haven’t made a single post about a broken game mechanic other then getting crap loot out of finishing the personal story.

My post was directed at the op.

Right, so you go to a restaurant you know is generally good, and order something, the food smells rotten, the table you sat down at wasn’t even cleaned from the previous visitors, and when you ask for a cup of coffee it’s cold and tastes like tar.

You complain but the other customers say “oh, it’s just a sad critic who doesn’t know what he’s saying”.

And the restaurant owners think “well, people still come by and I make money, I don’t see what’s the problem”

Yay![/quote]

This is an awful analogy.

lorazcyk.8927:

I don’t mind you asking, actually, thank you for asking.
Whether on my own or with other players, whether in a party or not, you can pretty much just go 123, 123, 123 over and over. Then you’re done and move to the next thing (NOTE: I’m not saying I do this, I’m saying I could). Even world bosses don’t require much thought or coordination.

Yesterday a person came to Lion’s Arch to ask for more people for Dwayna’s statue event in Straits of desolation. 4 people join him (I was one). We go do the event. 5 people only, and it was just super easy. Kite, Spam 1 2 3, Rinse and Repeat until dead.

Look at GW1. Right in the tutorial area where you spawn when you make a fresh character (pre-searing Ascalon), you could just get the secondary profession and then hurry to post-searing Ascalon, but if you lingered in the tutorial area and went to Catacombs on your own, you had to thread carefully. If you went with another person, you had to talk with each other about how to proceed. If you crossed the northern wall, you discussed with each other how to go about it. And that’s just the tutorial area!

You left the tutorial area, and you do story quests and missions. Every single story mission in that campaign required thought and coordination between players, even the beginner ones.

Now, I don’t know how it goes in other open-world MMOs, but just because it’s open world, does it have to be so brainless that each person just has to auto-attack? I feel like a monkey among a million monkeys spamming 1.

So I try to play during off-hours so it’s just me fighting, at-least that way it becomes marginally more interesting.

But I didn’t buy this game to play solo :S If I knew I’d be playing solo I’d just have kept playing Elder Scrolls.

Even if I ask on map chat for more help because I’m alone, they come, yes, but all we have to do is spam attack until the enemies are dead.

It’s just not that fun to me. I miss GW1. Group coordination was great.

I see – yeah I can understand that feeling. To be honest, that’s always one of the problems I had with MMO’s was the skill cool-downs and such but few games are rarely able to pull off something that doesn’t involve it. I remember Global Agenda was a nice game that pulled a bit from the cooldowns but there was enough game for it to be fun. I got bored relatively quickly.

I think also games are progressively getting easier as our gaming population is increasingly getting better at games. The difficulty levels for some games are a joke. Some enemies are difficult, yes but other’s aren’t. Then because of the gaming population having new gamers added, we are having a hard time as a gaming community finding games that are middle of the road, it’s either easy or extremely hard mode. We have people who don’t want it extremely hard and others that want it to be hard as nails to play.

If it’s a game I enjoy playing, and the issues don’t keep me from enjoying it…I’ll give them as long as it takes.

Considering the fact that developers in this genre haven’t managed to produce a game I really enjoyed in many years, and every single one of them is full of bugs at launch…I’m totally willing to give ArenaNet all the time they need. My only hope is that they don’t second-guess their design, and stick to their guns as they fix things and flesh out all the details.

The DR system (whatever it actually is) was not a quick-fix knee-jerk reaction. GW1 has had a DR system for years, maybe since its launch. I’m guessing it was always their intention to do something similar in GW2. There are some bugs with it right now (as is typical), and they are ironing them out.

lorazcyk.8927:

tolunart.2095:

tOss.9024:

Man, I would hate to be a developer with, some of, the modern gaming community as hostile as it is now. .

I’d imagine it’s a lot like being in a live performance field like theater or a musician. If you just read the critics’ reviews you’ll be convinced you’re the worst performer ever and no one would ever come to see you perform. Even if you gave a free show during a rainstorm people would rather get wet than be in the same room with you.

Then you actually go out to perform a concert or a play, and you look out at a packed house and realize there are thousands of people who all gave of their time and money just to see you… and you realize that the critics are just sad little men who want to make you feel bad.

The staff have access to a LOT more data about what goes on in their games than we do. Most of the people posting here, for all their posturing, don’t have a clue about what they’re talking about.

Right, so you go to a restaurant you know is generally good, and order something, the food smells rotten, the table you sat down at wasn’t even cleaned from the previous visitors, and when you ask for a cup of coffee it’s cold and tastes like tar.

You complain but the other customers say “oh, it’s just a sad critic who doesn’t know what he’s saying”.

And the restaurant owners think “well, people still come by and I make money, I don’t see what’s the problem”

Yay!

in your litte analogy, you forgot the fact that people still like the restaurant even though the critic demands it must be bad is what drives the critics madder than the occurence itself.

tolunart.2095:

Arson, was that really so important you had to say it three times?

RAGE CLICKING

lol i dunno why that happend heh.

Devs are working a lot more than a normal worker, they shouldn’t damage their health just because some kids have too much time on their hands.
Whatever time is needed is ok, if you buy games at launch you have to expect a couple months of bugs at least.

Anet is catering to long-term players anyways, not people who will quit at the least sign of bugs or lack of slavery camps aka forced endgame grinds.

The best way to get bugs fixed sooner is reporting them, and doing it in the most exhaustive, detailed way.

This is an awful analogy.

You’re right, it is, I’m not good at making analogies, but it’s how I feel. Like everyone says this restaurant is amazing without seeing its faults.

I think also games are progressively getting easier as our gaming population is increasingly getting better at games.

I don’t know if it’s just because gamers are getting better at games. Besides GW1 I’ve only played those old console J-RPGs. I like games but I’m really bad at them, even simple Wii games ^^

I don’t want monsters to have more HP and Power, I just want general PvE to require more coordination between players.