Guild Wars 2

After reading an other topic on this board, I got troubled with the idea behind the concept of “fun” in ANets books.

To be more precise the topic is found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-Mystic-Forge-Recipe/first

And Gaile’s quote that is sort of troublesome is this:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Gaile just announced this as being a “good thing”.

Yes, I believe it is a good thing. Here’s why:

• The items needed to make the recipe from prior years no longer are fully available. This means that that players could have been locked out of highly-sought-after items (unless someone happened to retain items from previous years).
• With the new recipe, those who choose to do so may try for the popular tonics and other rewards. As you can see in this thread, both tonics are confirmed as available and forge-able.
• As with everything, this is a voluntary activity. Nothing requires a player to do this. No one “needs” one of these tonics to play. But if they want one, they now have a means to get it.

In the end, this recipe is voluntary. The item is desirable but not essential. Players may decide for themselves if going for a particular item is right for them. In the end, I believe that it really is that simple.

The point is, many people are playing this game for fun in the first place. In the end, nothing is more essential and desirable than fun.

In fact, playing the game is not essential, unless you are addicted to it. Which is not fun. Therefore, the question is, why would ANet artificially limit the fun people can have.

More arbitrary RNG stuff won’t help the fun. The concept of rarity is understandable, but the amount of potential frustration with this system is beyond good and evil.

This game was once advertised in a way that you do not have to do tons of boring stuff or grind before you get to the fun stuff. This is the opposite of what has been once the goal of this game. The fun stuff is now hidden behind grind and RNG, which is sort of crazy.

So the question is, how much fun is enough in ANet’s eyes to keep the players going. And what is essential for this game in the first place?

You don’t have to do an endless grind to get to the fun stuff. With the fun stuff being the actual content of the game. You can play dungeons, fractals, wvw , pvp , world bosses, whichever content you desire or find fun without having to grind because exotic armor is so easily gained.

That’s what the game was advertised at, it had nothing to do with some silly tonic that was a random gift.

Don’t really understand the point of this thread. What are you trying to prove?

Well, many people consider achieving something fun. Even though they don’t necessary find the content fun.

Eg. People doing the things they don’t actually enjoy just to watch their AP increase by 1.

Game was advertised as, easy to obtain endgame gear and weapons.
It’s a strong point, because 99.9% MMO games endlessly promote grinding for top gear and weapons.
Here the only thing you may grind are actually skins.
Skins =/= endgame Gear

Those are cosmetic and optional, yet people treat is as endgame stuff and whine about them being hard to get.
There is loads of things to do like mentioned before – Fractals, WvW, PvP Arenas, World Bosses(not only timed ones like on dulfy.net) and various other things.

I also, would like to ask to not use RNG term so easily compared to this game – because with my experience, Gw2 has the lowest amount of RNG based things in game.

To ANet, the fun is to play the game. You know, do events, run around in large groups, and do other things that involve actually using the character’s abilities to interact with the game world. That’s been the philosophy since https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/.

Players were the ones who insisted on more and better rewards. Players were the ones who insisted on rewards being scarce. It may not always have been the same players who demanded these things, but player demand is why these things have been introduced. Now, perhaps some of these players really do find that getting “stuff” is fun. Perhaps others think it’s fun that their putting more hours into the game than other people should be rewarded with something neat, or their persistence in pursuing the elusive drop.

I’d bet that ANet would be happy if they were not continually having to pump out more reward systems to keep a jaded MMO consumer base satisfied. Players don’t just want the fun of playing. They want rewards. You want rewards (“The fun stuff is now hidden behind grind and RNG, which is sort of crazy.”). You just don’t want rare rewards (or at least whatever item you’re currently up in arms about to be hard to get).

Complain all you want about RNG related to whatever gewgaw you’re upset about. But don’t talk about fun, not when you’re part of the problem.

The only problem regarding rewards is, that people skip majority of the content and gain access to rewards at the end.

What’s more funny, those people yet complain that those rewards are way too small.

Sw Cave JP shows that there can be a system which is already implemented on that JP, where you cannot skip any part of that JP, otherwise you won’t have access to rewards at the end.
I hope that system will be implemented in all content that are skipped the most.
At least before they’ll boost rewards.

You have to find your own fun and not depend on ANet to “create” fun. This, i have learned, as the ANet is far, far removed from what their playerbase wants. Once you grasp that, the game is enjoyable.

So people think, the fun part means, that you can actually play the content.

Like dungeons (after leveling) and open world or PvP/WvW.

I just don’t see what’s the difference to most other MMOs out there. Say Arah is part of the fun stuff, than you have to first level to 80, gear up and practice to succeed. So there is no instant gratification to it.

Of course you can go to WvW, but you will be in a disadvantage as long as you have not leveled your character to 80 and managed to get your traits.
PvP just is just a seperated game mode. They could release a free stand alone version. A bit like MP in LotRO.

Open world is the same like in most other MMOs, you level your character until it is appropriate to a new zone, you go there and do stuff.

So you can play the game, welcome to the fun. This concept has sort of out-lived itself over the past two years. It is no longer (and probably never was) rewarding. Everything rewarding is either grindy – like getting BiS, festival stuff or stuff in the new zones, monetary bound – like skins or QoL tools, or locked behind a RNG.

So being told that you have two options to get some of the fun stuff, #1 being praying to the RNG gods and #2 buying it from the TP seems to be troublesome.

You can always say, you don’t care about character progression (BiS), about skins, about festival items, about any reward. Which is cool. I do so. But I also stopped caring pretty much about GW2 as a result.

I just don’t think this is very helpful for GW2 in general.

To make a long story short, let’s put it like this: in the first place, just because Anet states stuff, doesn’t mean they are exactly true which is something that many people have trouble understanding. Yes, it may ’’trick’’ people into buying the game but hey.. this is an industry and Anet is selling a game. Eventhough not everything is true, alot of things can be considered great according to the manifesto, if you had the proper mindset while playing. Just because Anet says you won’t need to grind, doesn’t mean there won’t be grind. And just because Anet says there will be dynamic events, doesn’t mean they won’t repetitive. Some people just get their hopes too high and forget about the financial and technological situation.

On the other hand, I can agree that Anet, with time, have gone farther and farther away from their original concept. The game has more grind now, forces you into doing stuff and is not as open as before. However. I disagree that it is bad for GW2 or for Anet. Anet just realized that to get the most profit, they have to keep some of the main concepts from traditional MMOs, like grind, RNG and the power to push players into playing the content they want you to play. Is it good for you as a player? well, it depens on what you like to play, you may like the game more or less this way. Is it good for the company? well, I don’t really think that Anet and Ncsoft are as stupid as people believe them to be. GW2 has never been a longterm MMORPG, it was a casual experience from the start and when they already released the game that way, got a gigantic success in the west. Now it is all about going back to the more traditional ways to get the most profit, because leaving the game as a ‘’fun experience where you do what you like when you like’’ won’t get so much money as it seems.

Don’t be too surprised if they announce an expansion soon an don’t be surprised either if you see GW2 as active 2-3 years from now. That alone is enough for the company, 5-6 years of success with millions of dollars, owning one of the west’s most played MMOs in addition to the huge popularity the game got via release. There has basically never been an MMO as commercially successful in the west as GW2 since WoW. Does it mean, it is the best today? maybe not, but it doesn’t really matter for the company. They already got the popularity they needed for the title. Now, it is all about going forward.

Some people find grinding out and collecting those types of hard to earn goodies to be “fun.” That’s what they enjoy doing.

Other’s don’t enjoy it, and that’s perfectly fine. It’s an optional thing. If that’s not what you enjoy, then don’t do it.

If you’re one of those people that feels they are entitled to everything just because they have the game….then you’re going to be severely disappointed. Sorry, that’s just not how it works.

That’s just a rare tonics dude. Ya it will be hard and ya some people won’t like trying to get it. If you really wanted that tonic why didn’t you try to craft it in the last year? Recipe were 1-2 gold for all of them for 300 days, they jumped in price in the last 2 days.

So NOW you want them and you complain that its hard because a lot of ppl want them too?

Thaddeus.4891:

That’s just a rare tonics dude. Ya it will be hard and ya some people won’t like trying to get it. If you really wanted that tonic why didn’t you try to craft it in the last year? Recipe were 1-2 gold for all of them for 300 days, they jumped in price in the last 2 days.

So NOW you want them and you complain that its hard because a lot of ppl want them too?

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/49298

which tonic are you talking about. The recipe have always been quite high. It just spike even higher.

I think people didn’t craft last year because they don’t know it will be use for 3 AP and a collection. Which is another tonic that makes you look like a giant winterbox.

And some people used their tonic to get the endless tonic, which is kind of a slap in the face for people who did it.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You can always say, you don’t care about character progression (BiS), about skins, about festival items, about any reward. Which is cool. I do so. But I also stopped caring pretty much about GW2 as a result.

I just don’t think this is very helpful for GW2 in general.

The thing is, there are plenty of rewards that don’t require huge amounts of collecting or gold. For all I know, you’ve either already got most of them, or don’t want the ones you don’t have. How many dungeon skins do you already have? How many cultural armor pieces? How many of the various Champion weapon skins?

The thing is, there are players who want there to be really hard to get stuff. They believe there is prestige in having something not a lot of others will spend the time getting. Should ANet ignore them and cater just to you? Or, should you realize that everything they add to the game is not aimed at every demographic?

This applies to content, also. Liadri was certainly not everyone’s cup of tea. Neither is WvW or PvP tournaments. Should they only add playable content that is aimed at everyone, or should different tastes be catered to?

I’m not saying the game is perfect. It’s far from it. However, when I see complaints about RNG or grind, I translate to, “There’s a reward item aimed at like-to-grinders that this poster wants, but he’s not a like-to-grinder.”

What’s fun and what isn’t all comes down to players personal thoughts on the matter.

What you may find fun, I may not, what I find fun you may not.

Anet tries to cater to everyone not just one set of players in GW2. Some players may want new content to be much harder, other players would hate that idea because it would make the game un-fun for them, so Anet can’t please everyone and aims for the middle ground.

slamfunction.7462:

This, i have learned, as the ANet is far, far removed from what their playerbase wants.

People really need to stop using the word “playerbase” to mean “QQ bandwagon on the forums.” The opinions expressed here on the forums are much more often those of hardcore players with ridiculous demands that Anet has no reason to appease at the cost of giving their thriving playerbase more content that the majority of players will enjoy.

Andred.1087:

slamfunction.7462:

This, i have learned, as the ANet is far, far removed from what their playerbase wants.

People really need to stop using the word “playerbase” to mean “QQ bandwagon on the forums.” The opinions expressed here on the forums are much more often those of hardcore players with ridiculous demands that Anet has no reason to appease at the cost of giving their thriving playerbase more content that the majority of players will enjoy.

Coming from other mmos my advice would be to ignore the general attitude displayed on the forums at your peril.

Look I don’t care about the tonics anyway.

The problem I have with it, is that it was fun last year, it was content. It was new and exciting.

This year, it is just old news. ANet could just hand it out for free, the hardcore players would not care. Everyone would be happy. The stuff from last christmas is just that, stuff from last year.

But no, ANet has to put it on a RNG in the mystic toilet. Seriously. What is the point. Why does ANet have the tendency to make a chore out of everything no matter how small. Where is the christmas spirit in this?

It is not hard to get the stuff, it is not challenging, unless you count repeating a mindless task as challenge. It is just lame.

Anyone who thinks that flushing stuff down the mystic toilet is great fun should try a virtual slot machine, because you know, it is pretty much the same.

Professional gamblers avoid slot machines. They’re enormously popular with amateur gamblers, though. Make what you will of that.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Professional gamblers avoid slot machines. They’re enormously popular with amateur gamblers, though. Make what you will of that.

Soooo…only amateurs play GW2 then?